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All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on December 21, 2010, 22:48:56



Title: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 21, 2010, 22:48:56
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12056324):

Quote
A 24-hour strike by drivers on London Midland train routes planned for Thursday has been suspended following an injunction by the High Court.

The court upheld the service operator's claims of irregularities in the strike ballot held by members of Aslef union.

The union called the 23 December strike over a pay and conditions row. Aslef leader Keith Norman said: "I am desperately disappointed".

London Midland said the union needed to be "realistic" in its demands.

The train firm operates through London, Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Northamptonshire, Warwickshire, Staffordshire, Herefordshire, Worcestershire, the West Midlands, Shropshire, Cheshire and Merseyside.

London Midland obtained an injunction claiming there were irregularities in the strike ballot. The union said the issues involved three ballot papers.

A London Midland spokesman said the firm was "delighted" that customers would not face "unnecessary disruption at such an important time of the year".

He added that the firm remains "open to discussion and want to resolve this dispute with Aslef, but they have to be realistic".

Mr Norman said: "I am desperately disappointed. My private opinion of the legal system is best not quoted."

Aslef said it had been trying for three years to "harmonise the conditions" of 600 drivers from two firms - Central Trains and Silverlink - which merged to form London Midland.

The train company said former Central Trains drivers were being paid ^1,200 more than their ex-Silverlink colleagues.

London Midland said the union turned down a deal which could have achieved equal terms and added that former Silverlink drivers "receive a more generous holiday entitlement".


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: eightf48544 on March 28, 2011, 10:10:47
Was at Watford Junction on Saturday special to North Wales to do combined FR and WHR, Another post!

Saw a prominent poster with a whole list of LM trains cancelled on Sunday.

The comment being "unable to find enough drivers willing to work on a Sunday".


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: JayMac on March 28, 2011, 10:46:57
Yes, London Midland drivers are currently taking industrial action on Sundays. No union involvement apparently. All drivers are, according to ASLEF General Secretary Keith Norman, 'individually deciding how to act.' They are efusing to work overtime following a phased reduction in Sunday pay rates from double time to time and a half.

A few recent BBC News articles:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12876006

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12870388

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12777443

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12777443

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12577008

London Midland's side of the story:

http://www.londonmidland.com/news/latest-news/london-midland-says-aslef-should-get-off-the-fence-and-end-the-disruptive-overtime-ban/

And from ASLEF:

http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/100012/122786/aslef_and_london_midland/


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Deltic on March 28, 2011, 12:27:00
Relying on overtime to deliver a contractual service is ridiculous.  In any other industry, you would be penalised for breaching the contract and probably had the contract terminated.  Passengers need to be able to depend on the service being provided on all days of the week, subject to necessary engineering works and emergencies.  Are other TOCs in the same boat?


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: eightf48544 on March 28, 2011, 13:06:58
I didn't put any comments on my original post.

Thanks bignosemac for routing out the necessary links.

Wasn't one of the reasons why the then Major government wanted to privatise the railways was to break the power of the unions ASLEF in particular?

It seems, however, that by breaking it up  into the various TOCs they've given ASLEF a hand of Aces. As drivers take so long to train and our now very route and traction specific just a few drivers not working can cripple a TOC.

All the drivers are doing is making their capital (driving skills) available for the highest price.

Just like the banks.

Isn't capitalism wonderful?


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: dog box on March 28, 2011, 21:33:21
Yes Deltic they are...Sundays do not fall within the working week and are therefore overtime


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Deltic on March 29, 2011, 09:40:15
I used to work in the care industry.  We were contractually required (and required by regulation) to provide a level of staffing 24 hours per day.  This was achieved by either having a roster that included some weekend working or by having a separate group of staff who worked at certain times, e.g. nights or weekends.  Presumably signallers work on such arrangements or the system would grind to a halt every Sunday.  You also have to wonder whether drivers working high levels of overtime is not a safety risk.  Sensible working arrangements that meet the needs of the customer should be put in place and if this means more drivers have to be trained then so be it.  TOCs unable to deliver their specified service for this reason should be heavily penalised, in my view.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Super Guard on March 29, 2011, 09:48:49
I used to work in the care industry.  We were contractually required (and required by regulation) to provide a level of staffing 24 hours per day.  This was achieved by either having a roster that included some weekend working or by having a separate group of staff who worked at certain times, e.g. nights or weekends.  Presumably signallers work on such arrangements or the system would grind to a halt every Sunday.  You also have to wonder whether drivers working high levels of overtime is not a safety risk.  Sensible working arrangements that meet the needs of the customer should be put in place and if this means more drivers have to be trained then so be it.  TOCs unable to deliver their specified service for this reason should be heavily penalised, in my view.

This is the problem - we are not in the care industry with such contractual requirements.  I totally understand the Customer side of view, however, the TOCs are there to make a profit, and training more drivers is a huge cost to the business.  More importantly though, unless the Conditions of Employment for Rail Staff are changed (through agreement on both sides of the fence) that brings Sunday into the working week, LM could train 100,000 new drivers, but if they all put themselves unavailable to work a Sunday then LM are back at square 1.

Yes, the whole Sunday strike situation is a huge bargaining chip for staff, however TOCs benefit from paying premium overtime, rather than having to pay extra salaries, pension, annual leave, sick etc etc.  Don't believe for one second the poor little TOCs do not like the Sunday setup - it's just this is the only time that the Sunday agreements bite them on the bum!


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Tim on March 29, 2011, 10:32:11
I totally understand why the drivers are doing this.  But does boggle my mind that we are not slowly (perhaps even with new drivers only) moving to making sunday part of the working week (with enhanced pay if neccessary)


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: JayMac on April 13, 2011, 21:53:06
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-13069760):

Quote
London Midland and Aslef reach agreement in pay dispute

Train drivers' union Aslef says it has reached agreement with London Midland in a long-running dispute which has caused weeks of disruption.

Drivers have been refusing to volunteer to work overtime, leaving a shortage of staff, especially at weekends.

A three-year pay deal was discussed which brings parity to employee pay, a large part of the dispute, Aslef said.

The deal has been described by Aslef as a "win-win" agreement. The rail operator was not available to comment.

The proposal will now be put to the union's 605 members who are being advised to accept it. There are 614 London Midland drivers.

London Midland was formed from Central and Silverlink in 2007 and operates services from the Midlands to London and the North West.

Former Silverlink workers had six days more annual leave than former Central workers but were paid up to ^1,500-a-year less.

The union has said there had been an undertaking by London Midland to harmonise pay and conditions by March 2009 affecting up to 1,000 issues, which had not happened.

'Recommending acceptance'

But after talks in London on Wednesday, Simon Wellar, national convener for Aslef, said pay harmonisation has been reached by the union offering more "flexibility" and agreeing some productivity changes and the rail operator also "moving" on other issues.

Services should return to normal at weekends while members are consulted and a new pay rate of time-and-a-half has been agreed for Sunday working, he added.

Sunday services have been disrupted by the dispute most weekends since 29 January which both parties have apologised for.

Mr Wellar said: "It's a two-way street this. It's what you would call a win-win agreement and our negotiators are recommending our members accept the deal."

Rail watchdog, Passenger Focus, said it welcomed the news and is awaiting more detail.

London Midland operates services through London, Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Northamptonshire, Warwickshire, Staffordshire, Herefordshire, Worcestershire, the West Midlands, Shropshire, Cheshire and Merseyside.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 13, 2011, 21:57:11
Sounds as thought the root cause of the problem, that Sunday's were in effect voluntary, hasn't changed though.  Could this unofficial bargaining tool be used again in the future?


Title: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on September 21, 2012, 18:07:53
A very long list of problems on the London Midland 'journeycheck' page tonight (including a fascinating piece of clairvoyance on the last item):

Quote
16:55 Northampton to Birmingham New Street due 18:01

Services full and standing.
This train will call additionally at Hampton-In-Arden.
This is due to train crew having been unavailable earlier.
17:53 Birmingham New Street to London Euston due 20:19

This train will call additionally at Hampton-In-Arden.
This is due to train crew having been unavailable earlier.
17:07 Birmingham New Street to Rugeley Trent Valley due 18:06

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
18:12 Rugeley Trent Valley to Birmingham New Street due 19:09

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
22:47 Birmingham New Street to Walsall due 23:14

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
23:40 Walsall to Birmingham New Street due 00:09

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
17:42 Rugeley Trent Valley to Birmingham New Street due 18:36

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
21:17 Birmingham New Street to Rugeley Trent Valley due 22:15

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
22:05 Milton Keynes Central to London Euston due 23:12

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
22:33 Rugeley Trent Valley to Birmingham New Street due 23:33

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
20:39 Birmingham New Street to Birmingham International due 20:55

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
21:17 Birmingham International to Birmingham New Street due 21:33

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
21:39 Birmingham New Street to Birmingham International due 21:55

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
22:22 Birmingham International to Birmingham New Street due 22:38

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
16:57 Redditch to Lichfield Trent Valley due 18:16

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
18:20 Lichfield Trent Valley to Longbridge due 19:24

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
19:32 Longbridge to Birmingham New Street due 19:52

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
16:50 Lichfield Trent Valley to Longbridge due 17:54

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
18:02 Longbridge to Lichfield City due 19:02

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
19:13 Lichfield City to Longbridge due 20:14

This train will be terminated at Birmingham New Street at 19:50.
This train will no longer call at Five Ways, University, Selly Oak, Bournville, Kings Norton, Northfield and Longbridge.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
21:30 Lichfield Trent Valley to Redditch due 22:52

This train will be terminated at Birmingham New Street at 22:12.
This train will no longer call at Five Ways, University, Selly Oak, Bournville, Kings Norton, Northfield, Longbridge, Barnt Green, Alvechurch and Redditch.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
22:57 Redditch to Birmingham New Street due 23:36

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
17:50 Lichfield Trent Valley to Longbridge due 18:54

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
19:02 Longbridge to Birmingham New Street due 19:22

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
20:30 Longbridge to Birmingham New Street due 20:50

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
20:53 Birmingham New Street to Longbridge due 21:14

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
21:27 Longbridge to Birmingham New Street due 21:47

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
21:53 Birmingham New Street to Longbridge due 22:14

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
22:27 Longbridge to Blake Street due 23:24

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
18:50 Lichfield Trent Valley to Longbridge due 19:54

This train will be terminated at Birmingham New Street at 19:31.
This train will no longer call at Five Ways, University, Selly Oak, Bournville, Kings Norton, Northfield and Longbridge.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
20:02 Longbridge to Birmingham New Street due 20:23

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
21:27 Redditch to Lichfield Trent Valley due 22:46

This train will be terminated at Birmingham New Street at 22:03.
This train will no longer call at Duddeston, Aston, Gravelly Hill, Erdington, Chester Road, Wylde Green, Sutton Coldfield, Four Oaks, Butlers Lane, Blake Street, Shenstone, Lichfield City and Lichfield Trent Valley HL.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
22:56 Lichfield Trent Valley to Longbridge due 23:54

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
17:20 Lichfield Trent Valley to Longbridge due 18:24

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
18:32 Longbridge to Lichfield City due 19:32

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
19:43 Lichfield City to Longbridge due 20:44

This train will be started from Birmingham New Street at 20:23.
This train will no longer call at Lichfield City, Shenstone, Blake Street, Butlers Lane, Four Oaks, Sutton Coldfield, Wylde Green, Chester Road, Erdington, Gravelly Hill and Aston.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
17:33 Birmingham New Street to Northampton due 18:34

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
17:46 London Euston to Birmingham New Street due 20:01

This train will be terminated at Northampton at 18:50.
This train will no longer call at Long Buckby, Rugby, Coventry, Canley, Tile Hill, Berkswell, Birmingham International, Marston Green, Lea Hall, Stechford and Birmingham New Street.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
18:31 Walsall to Wolverhampton due 19:33

This train will be terminated at Birmingham New Street at 18:58.
This train will no longer call at Smethwick Rolfe Street, Smethwick Galton Bdg L.L., Sandwell & Dudley, Dudley Port, Tipton, Coseley and Wolverhampton.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
19:49 Wolverhampton to Birmingham New Street due 20:14

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
20:08 Birmingham New Street to Wolverhampton due 20:33

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
20:38 Birmingham New Street to Wolverhampton due 21:04

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
20:49 Wolverhampton to Birmingham New Street due 21:14

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
21:19 Wolverhampton to Birmingham New Street due 21:44

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
22:08 Birmingham New Street to Wolverhampton due 22:33

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
22:49 Wolverhampton to Birmingham New Street due 23:14

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
17:47 Four Oaks to Redditch due 18:52

This train will be started from Birmingham New Street at 18:13.
This train will no longer call at Four Oaks, Sutton Coldfield, Wylde Green, Chester Road, Erdington, Gravelly Hill, Aston and Duddeston.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
17:52 Longbridge to Four Oaks due 18:41

This train will be started from Birmingham New Street at 18:15.
This train will no longer call at Longbridge, Northfield, Kings Norton, Bournville, Selly Oak, University and Five Ways.
This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.
23:46 Northampton to London Euston due 01:09

This train will be delayed between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston.
This is due to disruptive passengers.

This was at 18:00. Are there disruptive passengers on the 23:46 from Northampton every Friday night?


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: TonyK on September 21, 2012, 18:48:38
This was at 18:00. Are there disruptive passengers on the 23:46 from Northampton every Friday night?
If there are, it can hardly come as a surprise, given that litany of woe above.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: JayMac on September 21, 2012, 19:24:56
Disruptive staff would be more appropriate.

Although management must take some responsibility for the continued problems London Midland face in getting sufficient staff to cover all timetabled services. Too much reliance on overtime and rest-day work I believe, and with the poor industrial relations within London Midland, many staff are sticking to contracted hours and nothing more.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: broadgage on September 22, 2012, 08:38:16
Perhaps what they mean is "due to many previous problems with disruptive passengers, this service is likely to be delayed in order that police officers, PCSOs, and Ticket examiners may carry out thorough checks"


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Brucey on September 22, 2012, 18:49:25
Rather unsurprisingly, London Midland are advertising for trainee senior* conductors at (take a deep breath) Birmingham New Street, Birmingham Snow Hill, Worcester, Shrewsbury, Leamington Spa, Bletchley, Northampton, Watford and Crewe.

* = I thought senior conductor was a title used by the InterCity TOCs?  New title to go with 110mph working?


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Brucey on September 24, 2012, 21:21:46
I've gained a little more information about the staff shortages.  Apparently they are due to an unexpected number of bereavements and illnesses.

Additionally, I have been informed there may be NO service on the Marston Vale Line tomorrow due to staff shortages.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Bristolboy on October 01, 2012, 11:21:37
As a frequent user of London midland I would say the company has reduced staffing levels to the bone and now are getting hit. Kings langley, apsley, hemel hempstead and watford junction stations are also often short of staff so have ticket offices shut when they should be open etc.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: eightf48544 on October 01, 2012, 18:43:02
Marston Vale line, new one on me when was it rebranded?

Scrub that just twigged! Wires soon so won't be diesel service in an electrified area


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 02, 2012, 21:17:46
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19805183):

Quote
London Midland staff shortages cancel trains

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/63253000/jpg/_63253006_train_cancelled_simon_gray_.jpg)
Trains were cancelled on several routes from Birmingham

More than 30 London Midland train services, including routes to London, Birmingham and Liverpool, have been cancelled because of staff shortages.

London Midland apologised and said the cancellations were "predominantly due to recent high turnover of staff". It advised passengers to check online over cancellations, which affected 12 evening services.

Commercial director Richard Brooks said it had recruited "a substantial number of new people who are in training".

The RMT trade union said it had warned the company about ongoing staff shortages in areas including drivers and guards "for some time", but said it had "fallen on deaf ears".

Services to Rugeley and Redditch were also affected.

Phil Davis, from Travelwatch West Midlands, said it seemed to be part of an ongoing problem. He urged London Midland to "get their act together", particularly with ticket prices going up. "I was caught myself yesterday with a cancellation on the route to Redditch and the knock-on is that the next train is chock-a-block. It's not good enough really," he said.

Earlier, London Midland warned of delays of up to 25 minutes on some other services, while a number of passengers complained about overcrowding on other routes, including Birmingham to Shrewsbury.

One passenger, Tom Hammersley, used Twitter to describe a service in "meltdown" at Five Ways station outside Birmingham.

Another Birmingham traveller complained of cancellations on one cross city service, only to find an 11-minute delay on the next train.

London Midland said a number of drivers in training were due to qualify soon and that it had recently advertised for more.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: TonyK on October 03, 2012, 00:55:06
Recent high turnover? Hm. It is unusual for trained staff in railways to just leave the industry for no particular reason, especially drivers. My manager already knows that I am retiring on 31 March 2016, unless I get a better offer sooner, and won't be doing much in the last year. So staff retiring is foreseeable. If they are being poached by other companies with higher wages and  / or better conditions, then London Midland's (LM) choices are obvious. If it is drivers leaving that is at the heart of the problem, it won't be sorted quickly - it takes time to train new staff.
So is there more to this than meets the eye? RMT (not entirely sure, but I'm confident the R is for Rail) have made no secret of their disagreements with LM over a number of issues, especially some of the McNulty report. Bristolboy's point about staff reductions may be a very good one. Brucey's information about bereavements and illnesses may be right, or may be a smokescreen. They are a small outfit compared to FGW, who operate 9 times the passengers miles of LM. Any slippage will show up more quickly. Has the union formed the opinion that LM is being used as a pilot scheme for cuts? This mess will cost them dearly, as their reliability figures were not a model of excellence before this- except on the Stourbridge Town line, with the class 139s.
I wonder if we may be in for a winter of discount tents.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: eightf48544 on October 03, 2012, 08:34:59
One of the big miconceptions by the Tories when they privatised was to think that breaking up the railway into lots of bits would lessen the power of the Unions.

They didn't realise that with modern traction, unlike steam  a driver couldn't just jump on the footplate and drive, provided  they knew the route. So you only have to call asmall number of drivers out to completely disrupt a route or tOC.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 23, 2012, 09:46:25
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20038741):

Quote
Sixty London Midland trains set to be cancelled

More than 60 trains to and from Birmingham are expected to be cancelled on Tuesday as London Midland's shortage of drivers continues.

On Monday the company cancelled about 30 trains on the Lichfield to Redditch, Birmingham to Northampton and Walsall and Rugeley to Wolverhampton lines.

The cancellations and delays have been going on for several weeks.

The company apologised to passengers and said it would provide road transport where necessary.

It has said the shortfall in qualified train drivers will be addressed by mid-December.

The company has listed all the affected services on Tuesday on its website.

On Saturday afternoon and evening up to 30 services on the same routes were subject to delays or cancellations.

The company has said that daily cancellation updates will be posted on its website at 17:00 BST the day before services are due to be affected.

These include trains between Coventry, London Euston, Northampton, Birmingham International and Birmingham New Street as well as between Redditch, Lichfield and Four Oaks.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: brompton rail on October 23, 2012, 15:43:02
I believe that a larger than expected number of XC and Virgin drivers are retiring and their places are filled by drivers recruited from London Midland ( and possibly freight TOCs). As, presumably, LM drivers are paid less than XC and Virgin it isn't too big a surprise to see why the drivers might move. I imagine LM drivers are on ^40k whilst perhaps XC/Virgin pay nearer ^45k? Or you could get ^30k as a teacher!


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 23, 2012, 17:37:31
An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20049053):

Quote
London Midland train cancellations: Rail minister issues warning

Rail Minister Norman Baker has warned train firm London Midland about its performance, after further cancellations of services.

Mr Baker said commuters, who have faced weeks of disruption, were not "getting the services they need".

More than 60 services were affected on Tuesday, prompting Marcus Jones, Conservative MP for Nuneaton, to say the situation was unacceptable.

Mr Baker said he would be closely monitoring the firm's performance.

Most of the services affected are to and from Birmingham, but the problems have affected other destinations on the London Midland network.

There is a full list of affected services on Tuesday on the London Midland website.

Fourteen services between Nuneaton and Coventry were cancelled on Tuesday. Mr Jones warned that commuters would turn to other ways to travel.

Richard Burden, Labour MP for Longbridge, Birmingham, tabled a written parliamentary question on Monday asking the transport secretary to make a statement on the cancellations.

Mr Baker said he had spoken to the firm's managing director to "discuss how performance can be improved".

He said in a statement: "As with other franchises, London Midland is required to meet stringent benchmarks relating to their performance and I will be monitoring this extremely closely to ensure that normal services are resumed as a matter of absolute priority."

London Midland has the disruption on a shortage of drivers, but said it was addressing the problem.

The company apologised to passengers and said it would provide road transport where necessary.

It has said the shortfall in qualified train drivers would be addressed by mid-December.

Up to 30 services were cancelled by the company on Monday and Saturday.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Brucey on October 23, 2012, 17:41:38
A rather extreme, expensive and unworkable solution, but I wonder how much training would be involved in getting other TOC's drivers to work some of London Midland's trains?  I'm thinking many Virgin drivers will already have the route knowledge, just need to learn about the different rolling stock.

In my own dream world....


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 25, 2012, 12:19:15
A rather extreme, expensive and unworkable solution, but I wonder how much training would be involved in getting other TOC's drivers to work some of London Midland's trains?  I'm thinking many Virgin drivers will already have the route knowledge, just need to learn about the different rolling stock.

That assumes that the other TOC's have spare drivers in the first place of course.

The situation at the LTV depots for FGW is starting to get critical.  Hopefully widespread cancellations like LM's will be avoided, but there are lots of vacancies, and an ever-growing backlog of established driver training (Class 180s especially) and lack of route knowledge which it is getting harder to release people for because it's all hands on deck just cover the basic train service!  Watch this space.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: eightf48544 on October 25, 2012, 14:15:06
I wonder if part of the problem is that trains are getting too complicated with all their computers etc and different cab configurations.

On the southern if you were an electric driver there were in the early 60s only two types of stock straight Westinghouse like the 4 Subs and the later EPBs.

Also many early DMUs were blue square with similar cabs and controls.

So if you jnew the route you could drive most things.

Now you can't even couple two types of the same units (377s) and it takes a week to introduce a new coach into a Pendelino. And I've been told that although the cabs on a Pendo and Vomiter are virtually the AWS acknowledge button is transposed with another between the two types.

Looking at continental cabs the controls seem to have aremakable consistency with very similar style and posistions of the various controls. I understand there is supposed to be Euro cab.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 25, 2012, 15:54:08
Yup, controls and couplings are too diverse and complicated.  Look at the Class 180s, only able to couple with Class 175s which they're hardly ever going to meet in anger.  Voyager couplers are remarkably similar but mounted differently meaning that a Voyager could never rescue a Class 180 and in practice a HST or Loco would have terrible bother with the monstrous coupler adapter impracticable in all but the severest situations.

I'd lay many a penny on the fact that IEP and Crossrail trains (together with whatever EMUs are used on FGW's LTV route and the remaining Turbos) are all incompatible with each other making a failed train so much harder to deal with.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 26, 2012, 21:34:12
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20093690):

Quote
London Midland driver shortage cancels 133 more trains

London Midland, which has cancelled more than 400 trains in three weeks because of a driver shortage, plans to cancel 133 more on Saturday.

The firm lists the planned cancellations on its website, which impacts a range of services, mainly in the West Midlands region.

The firm, which runs 1,300 services a day, said 410 trains had been cancelled since 7 October and many others had been disrupted.

On Friday, 38 trains were cancelled.

Lines affected on Friday included Birmingham-Coventry-Northampton, Lichfield-Birmingham-Redditch and Wolverhampton-Birmingham-Walsall-Rugeley.

Some services terminated early and road transport was provided where necessary, according to London Midland.

On Saturday, the same lines are expected to be affected, while many trains between Birmingham New Street and London Euston will be running only shorter distances.

The firm said the shortfall in qualified train drivers would be addressed by mid-December.

A London Midland statement said: "Due to a temporary shortfall of qualified train drivers, we have had to cancel a number of trains over recent weeks. We're sorry if you have been affected.

"Whilst the shortfall itself should be addressed by mid-December, we are working hard to ensure the impact on our passengers in the meantime is kept to an absolute minimum. On most days we hope to run a full service."

The firm said some drivers were working overtime to reduce the impact and "a number of changes to the way we resource our train services" would also help.

London Midland has said it will list its cancellations every day on its website until 11 December.

Rail Minister Norman Baker has warned the firm its performance is being monitored.

The Birmingham Chamber of Commerce has said it is "critical" the issue is resolved for businesses in the area, especially shops during the half-term holiday.

The Sunday Politics in the West Midlands will be looking at the London Midland issue in more detail on BBC1 at 11:00 GMT on Sunday.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Electric train on October 27, 2012, 08:57:46
I wonder if part of LM's problems stem from the way the franchise was setup not sufficient drives TUPE'd in also LORL will have taken some of the drivers for the WC part of LM. 

The downside of the franchising system, if the companies bid has to pay over the odds to the government then only way they can pay for the bubbly at the share holders meeting is bare the staff to the bones, also as a franchise gets close to its end the parent group are reluctant to recruit this is the case with SE Trains currently.

Drivers are also quite a flexible commodity they will vote with their feet and change employers, from a railway employees point of view this about the only benefit of privatisation if you don't like your bosses find one you do and if they are offering better T & C then jump ship.



Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: eightf48544 on October 27, 2012, 10:40:35
Made the Today programme today 28th


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: TonyK on October 28, 2012, 12:17:54
Made Radio 4 on Friday too. Having a standard cab sounds like a good idea. It works in aircraft, where the Airbus 300, 310, 320 and 330 are all the same to look at, and a pilot can fly all four without type conversion training. Impossible with trains, though


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: eightf48544 on October 28, 2012, 14:02:54
Not impossible with trains America have had basically standard cabs and control sytems for deisel locos for years hence you can have mixed consists of ancient and modern GE and GM deisels all hauling the same train.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: MrC on October 28, 2012, 16:56:54
TBH most modern units have very similar cabs with the only major difference being things like separate power/brake and a combined power brake controller, and things like the TMS/AWS/TPWS etc being in a different place. Finding mcbs and air cocks along the train can be a bit more difficult but most drivers are issued with traction books with this sort of detail in plus a lot of TOCs have now gone down the phone-a-friend route for non-basic faults now. A conversion course from one type of unit to another can be around a week or two (from experience).

The real issue for experienced drivers becoming productive after changing employers is route knowledge as that will take several weeks for just a simple route, and more complex or longer routes can take months.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: TonyK on October 28, 2012, 17:09:56
Yes, there's more to this train driving than meets the untrained eye.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 28, 2012, 19:27:53
A conversion course from one type of unit to another can be around a week or two (from experience).

Indeed.  To give a sense of perspective, drivers learning the Class 180s who already drive Turbos get two days classroom training, one day 'static' training (messing about with one on the depot and creating faults, etc.) and then (I think) a minimum of nine hours actual driving with an Instructor Driver - that would probably take around three or four days to achieve, so a total of six or seven days.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: John R on October 28, 2012, 19:40:28
I seem to recall that a recent report on a rather unpleasant rush hour failure of a FCC unit was very critical of FCC because drivers had not been appropriately trained on the unit (it was one of the Southern Electrostars, not the usual 319s). It transpired that whilst they could drive the trains OK, once things started going wrong, the differences in the units and the unfamiliarity with them meant that the driver response was not as effective as it should have been.   

So as previously noted, it's rather more involved than the layout of the cab being a bit different to usual. 


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 28, 2012, 20:04:21
I seem to recall that a recent report on a rather unpleasant rush hour failure of a FCC unit was very critical of FCC because drivers had not been appropriately trained on the unit (it was one of the Southern Electrostars, not the usual 319s).

Indeed, John: the Kentish Town incident in May 2011, which was covered by the Rail Accident Investigation Branch report (available on their website (http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/120523_R072012_Kentish_Town.pdf)) - see page 36 et seq.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Bristolboy on October 28, 2012, 21:27:46
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20093690):

Quote
London Midland driver shortage cancels 133 more trains

London Midland, which has cancelled more than 400 trains in three weeks because of a driver shortage, plans to cancel 133 more on Saturday.

The firm lists the planned cancellations on its website, which impacts a range of services, mainly in the West Midlands region.

The firm, which runs 1,300 services a day, said 410 trains had been cancelled since 7 October and many others had been disrupted.

On Friday, 38 trains were cancelled.

Lines affected on Friday included Birmingham-Coventry-Northampton, Lichfield-Birmingham-Redditch and Wolverhampton-Birmingham-Walsall-Rugeley.

Some services terminated early and road transport was provided where necessary, according to London Midland.

On Saturday, the same lines are expected to be affected, while many trains between Birmingham New Street and London Euston will be running only shorter distances.

The firm said the shortfall in qualified train drivers would be addressed by mid-December.

A London Midland statement said: "Due to a temporary shortfall of qualified train drivers, we have had to cancel a number of trains over recent weeks. We're sorry if you have been affected.

"Whilst the shortfall itself should be addressed by mid-December, we are working hard to ensure the impact on our passengers in the meantime is kept to an absolute minimum. On most days we hope to run a full service."

The firm said some drivers were working overtime to reduce the impact and "a number of changes to the way we resource our train services" would also help.

London Midland has said it will list its cancellations every day on its website until 11 December.

Rail Minister Norman Baker has warned the firm its performance is being monitored.

The Birmingham Chamber of Commerce has said it is "critical" the issue is resolved for businesses in the area, especially shops during the half-term holiday.

The Sunday Politics in the West Midlands will be looking at the London Midland issue in more detail on BBC1 at 11:00 GMT on Sunday.

As previously mentioned I use London midland for journeys into London from herts and there haven't been many major cancellations on these services so far (certainly not the widespread cancellations seen in the midlands). however, I have heard rumours this is due to the company prioritising this area as it is financially more rewarding. Whether true I have no idea (for example not even sure if the drivers will have suitable training to just change etc).

The worrying thing is the impact it will have on rail usage now and into the future.


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 01, 2012, 20:00:09
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20165486):

Quote
London Midland driver shortage hits 37 trains

The ongoing driver shortage affecting London Midland is expected to affect 37 train services by the end of Thursday.

Six shifts have been left uncovered, meaning 37 of its 1,311 scheduled services have been cancelled or are starting later or terminating early. The disruption included a replacement bus service between Coventry and Nuneaton prior to 13:30 GMT.

The train operator has been warned it could face Department for Transport (DfT) sanctions. Leader of the House of Commons Andrew Lansley MP said London Midland was not yet technically in breach of its obligations, but if improvement was not seen "in very short order" the Department for Transport would need to consider taking action.

The issue of hundreds of cancellations by London Midland was raised in the House of Lords on Wednesday. Labour peer Lord Hunt of Kings Heath said the company was "not fit to run the franchise".

London Midland mainly operates services across the West Midlands but also runs services to Liverpool and London Euston. The train operator said it had seen a higher than normal turnover of drivers, which has hit more than 500 services since 7 October.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport Union (RMT) said earlier this month that 31 London Midland drivers had recently joined other operators for better pay and conditions.

London Midland has repeatedly apologised for the problem which it expects to be resolved by mid-December. It said drivers were working overtime as part of efforts to keep disruption to a minimum.

Quote
Train drivers' basic annual gross salary in West Midlands

London Midland..........^42,619

Arriva Cross Country...^53,171

Virgin Trains..............^49,620

Chiltern Railways........^45,305

Source: Aslef trade union website


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: TonyK on November 02, 2012, 20:30:35
"Dear London Midland,
I would like to help you by training as a train driver with you from scratch"

"Dear Arriva Crosscountry,

Do you think you will have any vacancies for drivers in two years or so, when I will be qualified?"


Title: Re: London Midland staff shortage
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 10, 2012, 19:37:24
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20253435?):

Quote
London Midland: Train drivers' union blames pay levels

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/64047000/jpg/_64047607_simulator.jpg)
Simulators are used to test how trainee drivers react to emergencies.

Delays caused by London Midland's ongoing driver shortages have happened because other train operators in the West Midlands "pay substantially more", according to the Aslef union.

The drivers' union has been working with London Midland over the amount of overtime its members can work to cover the shortage but said this was only a "temporary solution".

Simon Weller, from Aslef, said: "Across the concourse [at Birmingham New Street] they've got CrossCountry who pay substantially more. Their work is more interesting, it's less of the suburban type of stuff. It is very, very attractive, so London Midland is losing their drivers."

Mr Weller also said London Midland will train people with no previous experience while CrossCountry employ "qualified drivers".

A spokesman for CrossCountry said: "While we don't take on untrained drivers we do have to train any we recruit to use the types of trains we operate and to familiarise them with the routes."

The Rail, Maritime and Transport Union (RMT) claimed last month 31 London Midland drivers had recently joined other operators for better pay and conditions.

Steve Male, who is undergoing the year-long training course necessary before he can drive a London Midland train, said the training was very "safety critical".

"You are responsible for thousands of people's lives every day and you can't take any risks," he explained.

It is the length of time it takes to train a driver that London Midland blames for the more than 500 trains it had to cancel or alter in October.

The train operator has said the number of drivers who had left lately had been "far larger than planned". The mathematics is that drivers have to give three months notice before they can leave but it takes a year to train their replacement. Would-be drivers have to undergo physical and psychometric tests before they can even begin to train.

Mr Weller, national organiser for Aslef, said there was a "very high failure rate".

"The psychometric tests measure whether an individual is capable of taking instruction and their ability to concentrate and do system-type tasks," he said.

He said trainees were expected to be a competent driver after 250 hours of driving accompanied by an instructor. They also had to master the rules and regulations that govern safety on the railway.

Mr Weller said simulators were used to test how trainees respond in an emergency. "The simulators are quite realistic and it puts the individuals under quite a bit of pressure," he said.

He was a driver for 25 years and still remembers how big the train cab seemed the first time he was in it on his own. "It was very nerve wracking because you are responsible for several thousand horsepower and a lot of people," he said.

Shropshire commuter Ben Whitehouse probably hears more complaints than most about the train company's problems.

Mr Whitehouse travels every day on London Midland's Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton-Birmingham service and, after tweeting about his own problems of overcrowded trains and delayed and cancelled services, became what he said was "almost a counselling service" for other frustrated commuters.

The commuter, better known to his 1,300 followers on Twitter as @benjionthetrain, said using social media had produced a "community" for equally disheartened travellers.

"When people are stuck on a delayed train, they have time and can whip out their phone to take photos and video of any overcrowded services they're on and complain publicly," he said. "London Midland are very good on Twitter, and passengers can then get a real-time response - and maybe an apology - if they tweet them."

However, he said the instant apologies often appeased travellers to an extent they then did not bother to make formal complaints.

"When the government comes to looking at who runs franchises in the future, they'll be looking at the numbers of official complaints and passenger satisfaction survey results, rather than how many people have contacted London Midland via Twitter," he added.

"It's really important that as well as tweeting them, people make those official complaints and register the issues on a website like fixmytransport.com where lots of people can club together to add weight to any service problems as a group."

Mr Whitehouse said in the future it could be worth investigating whether a passenger-run co-operative could take on an entire rail franchise itself.

He added: "I would be willing - and I suspect many others would be too - to put money into knowing a service would be run for the passengers rather than advancing revenues or shareholders' profits."


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: TonyK on November 12, 2012, 19:08:40
Quote
He said trainees were expected to be a competent driver after 250 hours of driving accompanied by an instructor.

Blimey! I flew solo after 15 hours' instruction. My then instructor did his first solo at 6 hours.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: JayMac on November 12, 2012, 19:12:54
I suspect though that you'd need considerably more hours before you can fly with hundreds of people behind you.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: broadgage on November 14, 2012, 11:21:26
Quote
He said trainees were expected to be a competent driver after 250 hours of driving accompanied by an instructor.

Blimey! I flew solo after 15 hours' instruction. My then instructor did his first solo at 6 hours.

A light aircraft is aguably easier to control than a car or a train.
In the air, if one mistakes the position of another aircraft, or the position of a hill, there is often the chance to take last minute evasive action.
In the cab of a train, the misreading of a signal can result in large scale loss of life, even if the mistake is realised, it may be too late to avert disaster.


The controls of most trains are not that complicated, the extensive training is mainly learning the route, the numerous regulations and rules, and the actions to take in case of failures.

I have driven a steam locomotive on a heritage line, after a days instruction and would feel  competant to do so even with passengers. Would I be passed as competant to drive a steam or other locomotive on the main line ? no way!


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: TonyK on November 19, 2012, 20:14:55
Quote
He said trainees were expected to be a competent driver after 250 hours of driving accompanied by an instructor.

Blimey! I flew solo after 15 hours' instruction. My then instructor did his first solo at 6 hours.

A light aircraft is aguably easier to control than a car or a train.
In the air, if one mistakes the position of another aircraft, or the position of a hill, there is often the chance to take last minute evasive action.
In the cab of a train, the misreading of a signal can result in large scale loss of life, even if the mistake is realised, it may be too late to avert disaster.


The controls of most trains are not that complicated, the extensive training is mainly learning the route, the numerous regulations and rules, and the actions to take in case of failures.

I have driven a steam locomotive on a heritage line, after a days instruction and would feel  competant to do so even with passengers. Would I be passed as competant to drive a steam or other locomotive on the main line ? no way!

I don't disagree with you! Although if it all "goes quiet up front" in a steam train, it will coast to a halt. All aircraft without power will of course find their way to the ground, but not always in an acceptable manner.

As it happens, the controls of light aircraft are not that complex, either. It's knowing what to do with them that is the tricky bit. My comment was meant to emphasise the complexity of driving a train, rather than to poke fun at how long it takes to get good enough to take responsibility for hundreds of peoples' safety.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: mjones on November 22, 2012, 18:46:06
I'm going to Nuneaton tomorrow via Coventry, and National Rail Enquiries doesn't seem to be showing any direct Coventry to Nuneaton trains in the morning peak. I assume they have been cancelled because of the staff shortages, but can't find anything on their website. NRE is giving me routes via Birmingham, anyone know if the  ticket for the direct route via Coventry will be accepted on that route?


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Brucey on November 22, 2012, 21:47:48
Where are you travelling from mjones?  Best thing is to Tweet @londonmidland.  Especially helpful in the evenings when usually manned by David Whitley (Head of Marketing).


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: mjones on November 22, 2012, 22:38:47
From Didcot. Thanks- though I'm afraid I don't 'tweet'! But I've arranged to be picked up from Birmingham International now, so not an issue. That is, if I travel at all, given dire weather!


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: eightf48544 on November 23, 2012, 10:38:26
Had quick look at National Enquiries for Monday and there appears to be gap in direct trains between 09:06 and 10:42 (they then appear to be hourly at XX:42 from Coventry) both priced at ^4:50 off peak single. Seems same Tuesday as well!

It gives a 09:48 change Rugby at  ^11.30 anytime single!

Another fare anomoly!

It goes along with Grahame's arguments that for any train service to be useful it ought to be regular and run at sensible intervals throughtout the day without gaps at a time, 10:00 in this  case, when people might want to travel.





Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Brucey on November 26, 2012, 20:45:11
This weekend I travelled up to Telford Central from London.  The only reasonably priced options were "Via High Wycombe" or "ATW and LM Only".  Not wanting my service to be cancelled, I thought I'd try out the High Wycombe route, thus travelling on Chiltern up to Birmingham.

An excellent choice.  2+2 seating throughout with plenty of tables, plus sockets at every pair of seats and completely free wi-fi which worked for the whole journey at a good speed.  The platform numbers were announced at both ends thirty minutes before departure, with the trains ready for boarding at the same time.

I also liked the period design at Moor Street station.  Even the TVMs had a shell that matches the rest of the station.

Overall, a very refreshing experience.  Everything exactly as it should be and I'm afraid to report that London Midland have just lost a London-Birmingham passenger.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 09, 2012, 20:26:11
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20644061):

Quote
London Midland timetable changes tackle driver shortage

Changes to train timetables and work patterns have been introduced to reduce cancellations caused by a driver shortage, according to London Midland.

The shortage of drivers has caused the cancellation of more than 950 services since 14 October.

Train drivers' union Aslef said it agreed to the changes in rotas to "free up drivers to cover services".

London Midland said a number of trainee drivers are due to finish their training and start work "very soon".

This will also help the company to deal with short-notice problems such as sickness, a spokesman said.

Dicky Fisher from Aslef said the union would continue to work with London Midland to "assist them in delivering the train service".

London Midland said it was continuing to recruit and train more drivers. The train operator has apologised to anyone who has been affected by its recent problems.

In October the Rail Minister Norman Baker warned London Midland about its performance, and said commuters were not "getting the services they need".

The hundreds of cancellations were also raised in the House of Lords.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: ellendune on December 09, 2012, 21:08:44
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20644061):

Quote
London Midland timetable changes tackle driver shortage

Changes to train timetables and work patterns have been introduced to reduce cancellations caused by a driver shortage, according to London Midland.

The shortage of drivers has caused the cancellation of more than 950 services since 14 October.

Train drivers' union Aslef said it agreed to the changes in rotas to "free up drivers to cover services".

London Midland said a number of trainee drivers are due to finish their training and start work "very soon".

This will also help the company to deal with short-notice problems such as sickness, a spokesman said.

Dicky Fisher from Aslef said the union would continue to work with London Midland to "assist them in delivering the train service".

London Midland said it was continuing to recruit and train more drivers. The train operator has apologised to anyone who has been affected by its recent problems.

In October the Rail Minister Norman Baker warned London Midland about its performance, and said commuters were not "getting the services they need".

The hundreds of cancellations were also raised in the House of Lords.

The inference of the article is that the new timetable needs less drivers.  So does it ahve less services.  If so this is a step back.



Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Network SouthEast on December 10, 2012, 08:41:02
Can't comment if there are less services - however two things have changed in LM's favour in this timetable.

1: off-peak, some services are speeded up due to 110mph running on the WCML
2: a year or so ago, LM introduced new rostering/diagrams and initially these contained a bit of padding, which presumably will have been trimmed off. The risk is that during service disruption it might take longer for things to get back to normal


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on December 11, 2012, 07:06:13
My understanding is that the level of service is unchanged, but that the drivers' diagrams have been recast. This has saved 18 diagrams per weekday. As a result, the driver establishment that LM need (but that they're always short of, on account of drivers leaving to work for Virgin and CrossCountry) has come down by 36.

The negotiations about the recast diagrams were such that it was easiest to introduce these at the timetable change.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: JayMac on December 11, 2012, 10:12:21
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20663753):

Quote
London Midland warned by PM over cancellations

Action may be taken against London Midland if the train operator does not reduce the number of cancellations, the prime minister has said.

A shortage of drivers has caused the cancellation of more than 950 services since 14 October.

A new timetable was introduced on Sunday but three services were affected on Monday morning because of a lack of staff, according to the firm's website.

David Cameron said the company was on a "warning list".

Mr Cameron, in an interview with BBC WM, said: "It's not acceptable what's been happening. Under the franchising system if there's unacceptable service then action can be taken. It has in the past and it would be in the future if things don't pick up."

No guarantees

The prime minister said he was confident the new timetable would help address the issue.

The company has a number of trainee drivers who are due to finish their training soon.

London Midland's operations and safety director, Wallace Weatherill, said he could not rule out further delays or cancellations.

"There's never a guarantee when you're dealing with people and you're running over 1,300 trains a day," Mr Weatherill said.

"But what I can guarantee is there is no shortage of focus in making sure that every single one of our trains is covered so people can get to work and do what they need to do. When you have short-term sickness it's sometimes very difficult to recover from that."

Mr Weatherill said the likelihood of cancellations had "significantly" reduced because of the recent timetable change and the support of staff.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: swrural on December 11, 2012, 11:01:43
Excuse my ignorance, but do staff all have to re-apply for their jobs when a franchise changes, or is it written into the Act that existing staff must be taken on?

If that were otherwise, it might concentrate minds rather!  I was a freelancer in my career, so lived by my wits.  I do sometimes wonder how some would fare in a truly private enterprise setup.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 11, 2012, 12:05:10
Rank and file staff get transferred under the TUPE arrangements.  Senior management get to sweat a little!


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: JayMac on December 11, 2012, 18:40:18
TUPE = The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006.

Legislation: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/246/contents/made
Description: http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1655

I'll add TUPE to this forum's 'Acronyms/Abbreviations' page.  ;)


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: grahame on December 12, 2012, 07:19:14
I've tried to quantify the number of people at the very top who change when a new franchise starts, and as far as I can gather it's around a couple of dozen. But then those couple of dozen can make decisions which effect others at the more senior levels and at times going much further out on the tree too, potentially to operational level.  I think I recall an incoming operator somewhere to the south of FGW land who decided that they had too many drivers - not sure if there were any compulsory redundancies or if it was all done by natural wastage and volunteers.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: swrural on December 12, 2012, 18:43:04
Thanks Graham.  If that is so, how on earth do they create an esprit de corps in their organisation?

If these 'cats' are the ones who become fat, why should anyone down the line (whoops) give a fig?  I am still reeling about the 170000 odd non-employees who petitioned for Beardy Rail to continue to be allowed to take their money off them.

Strange world this online one.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 15, 2012, 21:58:36
I've tried to quantify the number of people at the very top who change when a new franchise starts, and as far as I can gather it's around a couple of dozen.

I agree with grahame - from my similar research, it's surprisingly few (possibly even less than twenty or so) individuals who will be directly 'dispensed with' on any change of operator, at the start of a new franchise, for example.

However, many of the existing management team will probably be invited to reapply for their own jobs, on new terms and conditions, which is perhaps where rather more 'changes of faces' in particular roles may be seen as a result ...  ::)


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 07, 2013, 00:48:57
From the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/9902863/Passengers-angered-by-decision-not-to-sack-train-operator.html):

Quote
Passengers angered by decision not to sack train operator

Passengers have attacked a Government decision to allow a train company to continue operating on one of the country^s busiest rail lines despite inflicting months of misery on passengers.

Industry experts expected London Midland, to be stripped of the franchise when its ^332 million contract came up for review late last year. But instead the company will be allowed to complete its term ending in September 2015. This is despite being condemned for waves of cancellations caused by driver shortages and plans for ticket office closures.

Critics included MPs from all sides and Norman Baker, the rail minister.

^Passengers weren^t given any opportunity to have their say when the decision to extend London Midland^s franchise was made by the Government,^ said Anthony Smith, chief executive of Passenger Focus.

So-called break clauses are seen as a way of protecting passengers from companies which fail to deliver, especially with the Government moving towards longer franchises in the hope of stimulating investment.

Having been warned about their poor performance by Mr Baker in October, the industry expected that the company would have been told to surrender the franchise early. Instead, just before Christmas it was told it would be allowed to complete its term, albeit after agreeing to dish out 100,000 free tickets to its passengers

^The driver issue at London Midland has been one of the most embarrassing errors of recent years, and yet the government rewards the company with a longer franchise, and no penalty for failing to provide services for customers," said an industry insider ^It is actually very embarrassing for Government. London Midland only won the franchise by saying it could cope with reducing drivers, so the failure is shared by company and the Department for Transport, now wonder it has taken a soft line.^

Maria Eagle, Labour^s transport spokesman, added: ^Yet again the Government has put the interests of the private train companies over passengers."

Mr Baker defended the Government's approach. ^London Midland has a lot to do to restore the trust of its passengers and has agreed a remedial plan with the Department which includes specific passenger benefits as well as additional investment," he said. "Early removal of the franchise would put at risk the delivery of this plan and could generate months of ongoing problems for passengers, as well as jeopardising the successful delivery of several projects, such as the procurement of 80 new carriages that will enable much needed capacity increases."


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: swrural on March 07, 2013, 13:04:43
'I agree with Norm'.  It was the best thing to do.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: eightf48544 on March 07, 2013, 14:39:11
What are the 80 new carriages must be EMU's not DMUs?

Have they got the drivers for them?


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Southern Stag on March 07, 2013, 16:10:05
They are the new Class 350/3s and /4s. 10 of each, although the 10 350/4s will be used by TPE at first, it isn't really clear what will replace them on TPE or when.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: paul7575 on March 08, 2013, 14:12:03
There's not necessarily a direct relationship between new units and the requirement for new drivers, as it is possibly the case that they'll be used to make some existing 4 or 8 car services longer.

I too keep reading about this supposed scheme whereby the 10 Transpennine units are only temporarily with that TOC and they will definitely go elsewhere once further electrification of TP routes takes place, but I've always had some doubts. There's never really been anything absolutely explicit about it in an RUS, or DfT statement that I can find, and I've looked all over the relevant websites.   In any case, they've recently discovered that 350s can run happily at 110 mph on suitable routes - and it seems to me that that also makes them more suitable for the northern parts of the WCML (and ECML) than hitherto.

As you say it isn't clear at all what may happen, but I'd add IF to what or when...

Paul


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Southern Stag on March 09, 2013, 00:21:37
They have been ordered by LM, are sub-leased from LM and will have LM interiors I believe. But then FCC has its 377/5s on a similar arrangement, and they are set to keep them for a while yet. When much of the Transpennine route is wired there will probably be a need for some new EMUs across the franchise, it would make sense to standardise the units on the Scotland runs with the rest of the fleet then and send the 350s back to LM.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: paul7575 on March 09, 2013, 18:11:16
Unlike the 377/5s situation between SN and FCC, the TPE 350s are not going to be subleased.  As LM stated here:

Quote
...as a result of a request later in 2009 by the Department for Transport to include within the procurement requirements new electric rolling stock for use on the Manchester to Scotland route, approximately 40 of the new vehicles (probably in 10 x 4-car unit formation) are to be procured and subsequently transferred by London Midland to First TransPennine Express (FTPE). The transfer is intended to occur in early 2012 via a novation to FTPE of the relevant contracts between London Midland, Siemens and Angel Trains. FTPE and the successors to the TransPennine franchise will run these vehicles on routes between Manchester and Scotland following the electrification of routes in the North West of England in line with national rail strategy.

[Also]

Negotiations with the preferred supplier in respect of the units destined for the Manchester to Scotland service are likely to include certain interior design changes which reflect the longer distance journey patterns on this route.

http://www.londonmidland.com/about-us/latest-news/new-rolling-stock-for-london-midland-and-for-first-transpennine-express/

Unlike in a typical sublease as we are familiar with already, the contract term 'novation' means that the contract is transferred in its entirety, so this is a different procedure...

Paul


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Southern Stag on March 10, 2013, 13:32:00
I didn't realise that, thanks. LM are just being used to order the 350s quickly then.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Network SouthEast on March 10, 2013, 19:39:53
They have been ordered by LM, are sub-leased from LM and will have LM interiors I believe.
This is not correct, the TPE 350s will have a different internal layout. Notably a 2+1 layout in 1st Class as well as an additional toilet.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: paul7575 on March 10, 2013, 19:53:49
I didn't realise that, thanks. LM are just being used to order the 350s quickly then.

Yes, I remembered this being discussed in another forum back at the time, but I think the sublease idea had gained some traction beforehand - I'm sure some of the rail mags also blurred what was going on a bit.  The 'novation' aspect seemed to slip under the radar at the time.   I dare say they could be transferred back to LM in due course, but if so why not just sublease normally - that would be my basic question.

Paul



Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: Southern Stag on March 11, 2013, 00:45:43
It is a bit strange. If a new build of units are built for TPE services once they are electrified it would make sense to have a common fleet with the Scottish units. That all depends on what units are used for TPE service in the future though, and nobody seems to know that yet. It could be a potential destination for Southern's latest 377 order.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: fanara on May 21, 2013, 10:14:00
When worked as train crew in the 1970s, wages were so low that we were desperate to work on Sundays.
The answer nowadays, basic wages being higher, is the introduction of the Continental Week, ie first week, Mon, Tu off: 2nd week, Wed Thur:, 3rd week Fr Sat Sun. No overtime payments. British Waterways lock-keepers worked this system in th 1960s.


Title: Re: London Midland - shortage of drivers
Post by: TonyK on May 21, 2013, 18:42:04
British Waterways lock-keepers worked this system in th 1960s.

How many still do?



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