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Journey by Journey => Thames Valley Branches => Topic started by: grahame on October 31, 2019, 23:15:10



Title: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: grahame on October 31, 2019, 23:15:10
Single track from Maidenhead via Furze Platt and Cookham to Bourne End, where off peak the 2 carriage train reverses at platform 2 and continues to Marlow.  Same thing in reverse for the train to get back to Maidenhead - round trip in just uner the hour.

Operation is different at peak time.  The train leaves Maidenhead via Furze Platt and Cookham to Bourne End, but it arrives there at platform 1 - longer, but only accessible from the Maidenhead direction.  At the same time that the train from Maidenhead arrives in platform one, a second train arrives from Marlow in platform 2.  Passengers from Maidenhead walk around  from platform 1 to platform 2 and join the train that's just arrived there from Marlow ... which sets off a couple of minutes later back to Marlow.   Passengers from Marlow get off their train in platform 2, and walk around to platform 1 to the train that's just arrived from Maidenhead, and sets of back for there a couple of minutes later.

A typical swap at Bourne End
17:17 from Marlow arrives at 17:24 at platform 2
17:16 from Maidenhead arrives at 17:27 at platform 1
17:30 train leaves from platform 2 for Marlow (gets there at 17:37)
17:31 train leaves from platform 1 for Maidenhead (gets there at 17:42)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/bournediagram.jpg)

By having 2 trains swapping over their passengers halfway, the service can be increased to every 30 minutes rather than every hour.

I understand that passenger flow is significnatly biased FROM Marlow in the morning and back there in the evening.  That bias leads to lots of empty seats in one direction, but it does mean that you don't get two surges of people meeting each other head on around the end of the platform at Bourne End.


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: bobm on November 01, 2019, 12:29:24
A couple of photos to add to the understanding

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/bend2.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/bend.jpg)


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Electric train on November 01, 2019, 18:27:12
Quaint isn't it  ;D  and all operated on basically Victorian technology. 

Token block between Maidenhead - Bourne End and "One Engine in Steam" on the Bourne End - Marlow


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: bobm on November 01, 2019, 21:00:02
Wouldn’t be the same with those nasty overhead wires.  ;D


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 01, 2019, 21:13:26
.....and just to add my bit, thats not a signal in Bobm's photograph, but a Point Indicator (its set for the Marlow line).


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Oxonhutch on November 01, 2019, 21:50:16
.....and just to add my bit, thats not a signal in Bobm's photograph, but a Point Indicator (its set for the Marlow line).

That is subtle ...


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 01, 2019, 22:30:01
.....and just to add my bit, thats not a signal in Bobm's photograph, but a Point Indicator (its set for the Marlow line).

That is subtle ...

Yes, the STOP Sign is actually the signal.


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Fourbee on November 02, 2019, 07:23:03
.....and just to add my bit, thats not a signal in Bobm's photograph, but a Point Indicator (its set for the Marlow line).

Presumably can't use 'M' as that would potentially be confused with "Mainline" ?

Heading North out of Guildford, trains heading towards Ash have an 'A' theatre indicator and trains heading towards Clandon have a 'C'. Is this co-incidence or is it just routes are labelled A,B,C (where Guildford's 'B' is an 'M' for Mainline).


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: grahame on November 02, 2019, 08:15:35
Presumably can't use 'M' as that would potentially be confused with "Mainline" ?

"M" for Marlow and "M" for Maidenhead ... I suspect too similar and likely to get confused at first glance.


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Reading General on November 02, 2019, 20:50:37
This is a branch well worth travelling if you've never been on it, it's amazing it survived like it is. Once you reach the Thames bridge at Bourne End the landscape is a world away from that when you leave the busy mainline at Maidenhead. Much like the Henley branch, it's rough, low speed track adds to the country branch line feel and, after the reverse at Bourne End, the train slowly runs through back gardens and along the Thames bank to Marlow where it unceremoniously finishes at the far end of an industrial estate. At Bourne End you can see where the line continued to High Wycombe. It's quite easy to follow some sections of the line on foot, and with a short diversion onto a golf course you can still see the tunnel under the M40.


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 02, 2019, 22:05:43
Indeed.  Here is a photograph I took from Winter Hill during the Marlow Branch Centenary Celebrations in 1973.

(http://cbrailways.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/Album_p10hy4/19a.jpg)


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 02, 2019, 22:10:24
Presumably can't use 'M' as that would potentially be confused with "Mainline" ?

"M" for Marlow and "M" for Maidenhead ... I suspect too similar and likely to get confused at first glance.

It actually shows 'M' for Main (towards Maidenhead) and 'B' for Branch (towards Marlow).


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 02, 2019, 22:16:42
.....and here is the equivalent view to Bobm's but taken by me in 1971.

(http://cbrailways.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/1379866239/Bourne%20End%20Station%2005_1.jpg)

....and looking the other way towards High Wycombe.  High Wycombe train approaching.

(http://cbrailways.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/Album_p10hy4/1.jpg)


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: MVR S&T on November 02, 2019, 23:30:21
Hows it appears in the signalbox at Didcot:
https://photos.signalling.org/picture?/19012/category/1879-2015_may


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Electric train on November 03, 2019, 07:49:51
The 60' jointed bullhead rail on timber sleepers north form North Town Crossing (aka Furze Platt) is being replaced by CWR this side of Christmas, including North Town Level Crossing being closed to road and pedestrian traffic for 2 weeks (17 Nov -  2 Dec) while the track renewals is being done.

So if you want to enjoy the sound of trains over 60' jointed rail best get in quick


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: BBM on November 03, 2019, 10:59:32
The Marlow and District Railway Society has a number of historical photos on its website depicting quite a wide variety of motive power at Bourne End since the 1950s:

http://www.mdrs.org.uk/wycmaidmarlow.htm (http://www.mdrs.org.uk/wycmaidmarlow.htm)


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Reading General on November 03, 2019, 13:42:21
Interesting stuff, cheers. Why was the High Wycombe-Maidenhead line worked in two halves towards the end? Was its simply that traffic between Maidenhead and Marlow dominated and it was better to work the Bourne End to Wycombe section as a branch instead? This seems a little odd to me as I imagine that if the line was fully open today it would be very popular.


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: rower40 on November 03, 2019, 17:12:57
Hows it appears in the signalbox at Didcot:
https://photos.signalling.org/picture?/19012/category/1879-2015_may

Errm... point of order... that's how it used to look before the Crossrail sidings at Maidenhead were built.  And it's now on "Scalable", not IECC Classic.
But the trains on the Bourne End branch only appear to the TVSC Maidenhead workstation signaller when he puts their headcode into his first berth - no automatic stepping or ACI.


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: stuving on November 03, 2019, 19:30:24
Interesting stuff, cheers. Why was the High Wycombe-Maidenhead line worked in two halves towards the end? Was its simply that traffic between Maidenhead and Marlow dominated and it was better to work the Bourne End to Wycombe section as a branch instead? This seems a little odd to me as I imagine that if the line was fully open today it would be very popular.

Having looked at the 1965 timetable, it wasn't operated quite like that. In the peaks the branch was a shuttle, with through trans. In some of the rest, southbound trains ran full length, while northbound ones diverted at Bourne End to Marlow and returned to continue to High Wycombe. But a lot of the time was transitoning from one service pattern to another and hard to call a pattern in itself. Services to/from High Wycombe started later and ended earlier, suggesting that part was much less used.


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: eightf48544 on November 04, 2019, 09:54:09
Or if you believe in conspiracy theories the through service  was deliberately run down by BR to facilitate closeures as it was an expensive line to operate with at least 4 manned crossing between Bourne End and Wycombe. Which also meant that traffic could flow freely, very important in the 70s.


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Reading General on November 04, 2019, 11:12:57
I do believe in stuff like that, having seen Reading buses run down a route in the past.


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: eightf48544 on November 04, 2019, 11:20:14
Quaint isn't it  ;D  and all operated on basically Victorian technology. 

Token block between Maidenhead - Bourne End and "One Engine in Steam" on the Bourne End - Marlow

Sequence is first train of at start of 30 minutes arrives Platform 2 with MAI-BNE token which is placed in relevant instrument, Points operated. Both required to release the GSP.  OTS: BNE-MLW can then be withdrwn from Bourne End. Train is effectively locked on branch.

Second train obtains a second MAI BNE token and shuttles backwards and forwards in an out of platfrom 1 BNE. Not sure if token replced at Mai each time.

On last run token replaced at MAI. Last  Marlow Shuttle arrives at Bourne End Plat 2 and OTS replaced. As there is already a MAI BNE token in place and assuming the second token has been replaced at Mai the points can be oprated and the MAI BNE  token withdrawn at BNE. Train proceeds from Platform 2 to Mai. Hourly service recommences.



Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Timmer on November 04, 2019, 13:16:18
Or if you believe in conspiracy theories the through service  was deliberately run down by BR to facilitate closeures.
Saw that on the S&D where on Summer Saturdays through services were replaced by fragmented services yet through services resumed after the Summer.


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Electric train on November 04, 2019, 19:43:27
Or if you believe in conspiracy theories the through service  was deliberately run down by BR to facilitate closeures as it was an expensive line to operate with at least 4 manned crossing between Bourne End and Wycombe. Which also meant that traffic could flow freely, very important in the 70s.

I believe the real reason was BR requested funding from the Dept of Transport to fund the staffing of the 5 level crossings between Bourne End and High Wycombe, of course by the time of closure the fright had all but gone and passenger numbers had dropped; perhaps in part due to the need to change trains at Bourne End to travel between High Wycombe and Maidenhead.

I do feel if the line had survived 5 to 10 years longer it would still be operating today


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: grahame on November 04, 2019, 21:10:15
I do feel if the line had survived 5 to 10 years longer it would still be operating today,

Very likely.  And you set me thinking about other lines too - http://gwr.passenger.chat/22410


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Reading General on November 04, 2019, 21:17:46


I do feel if the line had survived 5 to 10 years longer it would still be operating today

I feel the same about many lines, stations and Reading's trolleybuses.


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Nippy on November 05, 2019, 14:06:28
Hows it appears in the signalbox at Didcot:
https://photos.signalling.org/picture?/19012/category/1879-2015_may


That's a very old photo, will get an updated one when I'm in tomorrow......


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Adelante_CCT on November 05, 2019, 15:28:07
A warm welcome to the forum Nippy


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Witham Bobby on November 06, 2019, 10:44:19
Back in the day, complete with semaphores, signalbox and Park Royal DMU (2-car, Class 103)

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58228-the-stationmaster-looks-at-bourne-end-the-one-on-the-wycombe-branch/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58228-the-stationmaster-looks-at-bourne-end-the-one-on-the-wycombe-branch/)

Last time I was at Maidenhead Station, it was when the GWS were running Centenary of the Marlow Donkey trains in July 1973  There was a WR Plywood Wonder Signalbox at the end of the Down Relief/Branch island platform, which controlled branch trains and which could switch-in to control the signals on the Relief lines.  I was looking for a picture, and found one on this nice page of memories (scroll down a bit) whcih has several images of that day.

http://www.mdrs.org.uk/wycmaidmarlow.htm (http://www.mdrs.org.uk/wycmaidmarlow.htm)


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Nippy on November 06, 2019, 19:37:42
A warm welcome to the forum Nippy

Thanks very much. Updated view of the Maidenhead layout in the Thames Valley Signalling Centre attached.....


Title: Re: The Marlow Branch - how Bourne End works
Post by: Reading General on December 17, 2019, 15:44:09
I had a ride on this branch today between Maidenhead and Bourne End. The rail still has its familiar join and noise beyond Furze Platt for the time being and, after all the changes on the main line in the past couple of years, a smile appeared on my face when I was reminded that it’s still a turbo working the branch. Everybody might be glad to see the back of them but to me they are the trains of my generation that gave me freedom when I was young, so I will always have a soft spot for them,  even if they weren’t as good as the slam door DMU’s they replaced. From Bourne End I walked sections of the old line to Wycombe again as I did with dad a few years ago. Although still mostly in countryside rather than urban sprawl, plenty of houses, businesses and gardens have been built on the trackbed in sections. The Wycombe end is remarkably free of building on the trackbed, with most of the building occurring in Loudwater and Wooburn Green. The short tunnel under the M40 still remains available for use. It took me an hour and a half to walk the route including a swift half in a pub at Wooburn Green, demonstrating how short a section is missing from the line. From Wycombe I got the train back via Oxford.



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