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Anyone know what the latest is on providing a proper running junction for the WSR? Or is the intention now to run parallel to the mains as far as Taunton? Haven't seen anything in the railway press about it recently.

They've had a fully signalled mainline connection for ages!

Though no plans to use it on a regular basis, or indeed to build a line parallel into Taunton (which I suspect might be the thrust of the question).  wsra.org.uk is a useful source of knowledge for those wishing to know more about the railway and its development plans.

Mmm...without wishing to stir the pot...though notionally curious about the truth, a retired signal engineer of my aquaintance suggested that WSR were offered the opportunity of a parallel line into the bay at Taunton many moons ago (hence the signalling issue), but WSR infighting bu**ered up the chance.

Would seem to be lost now!

This could be an interesting thread.

I think it would still be possible to build a parallel line if they wanted to.  The bridge to replace the level crossing on the approach to Taunton has enough room for another track.  That was only built a couple of years ago.

Will it be worth their while to spend millions on a parallel track into a new platform? It is cheaper (and often quicker) to bring in stock by road, and most passengers will arrive by car, whether or not there is a rail link. Passengers who insist on taking the train will continue to take the dedicated bus service.

Before you dismiss me as anti rail, I would support such as link being exploited, I'm merely being realistic about it.

The connecting bus service is very expensive, and the road access from the M5 through Taunton and onto Bishops Lydeard is slow and not easy if you're not familiar with Taunton. A rail link would encourage a lot more people to visit the line - I'd certainly go with my family more often. 

Thanks for your responses guys. I was under the impression that the connection was a very low speed 'through siding' arrangement with shunt signals rather than main (running) signals, with access by permission of a third party. Obviously things have moved on from there! ???

Thousands and thousands of people from all over the UK, Europe and the USA also attend the now four-times-a-year All Tomorrows Parties rock festivals which take place out of season in Minehead - myself included. The organisers lay on special coaches from Taunton railway station, but these are so quickly sold out in advance that the only other option is to catch the bus - which as mentioned above, is a slow and comparatively expensive option.

I tried it once but I must admit that the journey was such a faff that I now drive every time. It takes quite a lot to get me off of public transport and into my car,  so I would definitely always use a through rail connection if there was one, and I rather suspect I'm not alone in that (especially people unfamiliar with driving in Britain)

What a ridiculous state of affairs. There's a working railway all the way to Minehead but we can't get there by train without using a bus link to a summer only heritage line. With all this talk of possible re-openings it seems even more crazy now than it did a few years ago.

I've never been to Minehead, but funnily enough I have visited St Ives, Falmouth, Newquay, Looe, Calstock, Exmouth, Barnstaple etc, most of those a number of times. Can't any of these clever report writers make a case based on the benefit to the local economy and environment? I appreciate that some work might need doing on the line and of course the Great Train Drought would have to end before a unit could be found, but come on....... there could hardly be an easier re-opening in the country, and it would bring good cheap publicity for the politicians, and extra customers travelling to Taunton for FGW.

Does anyone know if the GWRUS - which has examined the Benefit Cost Ratio of reopening to Portishead with a regular services - has also looked at the BCR of services running from Minehead to Taunton and perhaps further?    It would seem only logical at this time when we're looking forward ...

Totally crazy after Network Rail upgraded the signalling to allow through trains to Minehead that no one has taken up running the service.

Surely there is the demand for it during the summer months.

There's no mention of Minehead in the RUS consultation document.

I think the WSR is a light railway so trains are restricted to 25mph. You'd therefore have a bit of a conflict between a direct service from Taunton to Minehead and the usual steam services. Still, I'm sure it could justify itself in high summer anyway.

The bus from Taunton to Minehead cost me ^4.95 for a return the other week which seems reasonable (not sure about Taunton-Bishop's Lydeard). Certainly if you compare it to Stagecoach Devon or First in Bristol you can't complain too much.

To be fair, the West Somerset Railway is not a 'summer only heritage line': they actually operate throughout the year - see their timetable, at http://www.west-somerset-railway.co.uk/Times_fares.html

And, in the relatively recent past, we have seen a Virgin Voyager and a FGW HST make their (rather ponderous ::) ) way from Taunton to Minehead, on the WSR!

However, I'd agree that there is no mention of the WSR Minehead Branch in the GWRUS - and those cost / complications of road connections between Taunton and Bishops Lydeard have always meant that I've resorted to driving down, to the WSR, in the past. :(

Its quite a long day driving from Bath to Minehead/Bishops Lydeard or taking the train to Taunton then having to get a bus to either Minehead/BL. If there was a train service between Taunton-BL/Minehead I'd visit a lot more often as Minehead and the WSR is a great place for a day trip.

For some background on the 'missing link' ::) between Taunton and Bishops Lydeard, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Somerset_Railway#Bishops_Lydeard_to_Taunton

I dont consider the bus to be especially expensive, though it is very slow and at busy times unreliable.
Although the bus is timetabled at just over an hour, some journeys take much longer.

The bus service is totally inadeqaute when special events in Minhead result in extra potential passengers.

I have seen well over a hundred customers alight from an HST at Taunton, all expecting to get on the Minehead bus, which seats a few dozen.
Often intending bus passengers have to let 2 or 3 buses go before they can get on one, with a service every 30 minutes, that can mean  a wait of an hour and a half or even two hours, giving a total journey time of over three hours.
Sometimes another train arrives before the limited bus service has cleared the passengers from the previous train.
Taxis are not allways available, and are certainly not affordable for all, at a cost of about ^45/50.


A train from Taunton to minehead would be far preferable, and a through train better still.

The West Somerset railway is more punctuall than the bus service, and can of course carry many more passengers.

Got a feeling the Voyager only made it as far as Bishops Lydeard.

True it's not "summer only", but I wouldn't exactly call it "throughout the year" either: the Feb 09 to Jan 10 timetable shows that they only operate on 7 days in Feb, 4 in November, and there's no service at all in January after the 3rd. So it's no use for anyone wishing to travel outside weekends and school holidays/half terms. (I'm not having a go at WSR - I'm sure they would if they could.)

Reading other posters' comments about the bus connection has made me even less likely to ever use the line.

I imagine the biggest obstacle to there ever being a regular train service from Taunton to Minehead would be the potential loss of business to the bus route -- because bus fares are higher than train fares -- the same reason First would never want to run a decent service between Penzance and St Ives.

The forthcoming sold-out festivals in Minehead are on 4th - 7th December and 11th - 14th December (both Friday to Monday).

The WSR are running no trains at all on either the 7th or the 11th.

Excuse me?  See http://trainsferriesbuses.co.uk/xc.htm  ;) :D ;D

I wouldn't let those comments put you off, because they don't reflect my experience.

I've visited the line twice in the last year by train to Taunton then bus to BL and had a good experience both times; the bus picks up from a dedicated waiting room on the east side of Taunton station and takes 20-30 mins each way, setting down right outside the station at BL. One of those occasions was the Mixed Traffic/Tornado Gala, one of the big special events, and the bus was pretty busy but had no trouble fitting everyone on. The WSR also often provides its own free bus service to and from Taunton station for the bigger events.

The original primary aim of the WSR was to run a year-round public transport link between Minehead and Taunton.  Local people, feeling very aggrieved by the 1971 closure, subscribed heavily to the share issue that launched the public company in 1976, as the restoration of services began.

For historic reasons, the local Western National bus crews were members of the National Union of Railwaymen, and in an attempt to safeguard these members' interests, the NUR announced a blacking of traffic to/from the WSR in the Taunton area.  The WSR couldn't open quickly enough to Taunton (Minehead to Blue Anchor opened in March, 1976 and the present limit of regular operations, Bishops Lydeard, was reached in June, 1979) and Somerset County Council, which had offered loan facilities to support the project, changed its mind and asked for the money back, just when the WSR could not afford repayment.  The Taunton goal became more and more of a distant prospect, particularly as the Bristol Division of the then BR(WR) came up with what appeared to be huge costs for refurbishing the signalling and for a running powers agreement over the former "Up Relief" line between Norton Fitzwarren and a bay platform at the country end of the Up side of Taunton Station.  The WSR quietly dropped all ambitions to run the regular public transport service to Taunton in the early 1980s and this has remained official policy ever since.

That said, the door is open for TOCs to enter discussions about the running of services off the national network to and from the line.  A couple of years back there was a timetabled Saturday service from Bristol to Minehead and back, for example.  Ideas sometimes circulate about the Cardiff/Worcester/Bristol originating services that presently terminate at Taunton being extended on to Bishops Lydeard during the time currently used for layover at Taunton.  This may or may not be practical; I could not comment.

The junction between the WSR and Network Rail at Norton Fitzwarren is in fairly regular (daily or close to it) use, as the NR High Output Ballast Cleaner traverses this route to reach the WSRA site at Norton Fitzwarren where the spent ballast is discharged.

Nick
Operating Superintendent of the WSR 1976-79 and WSR supporter ever since.

Not wishing to put people off visiting the excellent WSR, I feel that I should clarify my remarks regarding the inadequate bus service.

My remarks refer primarily to dates when special events are on and large number wish to travell by bus between Taunton and Minehead
Conditions then can be appaling, with waits of up to 2 hours in order to stand on a bus for over an hour.

At off peak times the 28 bus route provides quite a good service.

As regards the bus link between Taunton and Bishops Lydeard (for the WSR) This works fairly well, and any  overcrowding is less unpleasent due to the very short journey.
Taxis are readily available and much more affordable for this much shorter journey.


The main problem is not getting a bus to Bishops Lydeard in order to enjoy the WSR.


The problems are travelling by bus from Taunton to Minehead at busy times such as on Butlins arrival/departure days or when well atended festivals and meetings are on in Minhead.

Thanks Nick for your historical perspective. I vaguely remember local news reports from the time and knew it was something to do with unions.

There wouldn't be space in the current timetable to extend Cardiff-Taunton trains to Bishops Lydeard. If the WSR trains could only operate to their own platform Taunton as was once planned...  ::)

There will be a huge cost to the WSR to regularly run a service , for what will probably be only a small gain, all steam locos will need to be rebuilt and examined to mainline spec ,whilst all crews will need to be network rail certificated with regards to competancy. Personal track safety, and health requirements , while i am aware that wsr has its own internal scheme with regards to this, would it be acccepted by NR most possibly not,
Also all stock would need to be again up to mainline spec, a dedicated dmu service operated by a small number of suitable staff would be feasable...but for a handful of passengers ,i really dont think the figures would ever add up with out some sort of revenue support

Trust me, if they laid on a diesel hauled special on any date that the ATP festivals are beginning or ending at Butlins in Minehead, there would emphatically be more than a "handful" of passengers.

The revenue earned would probably pay for a month's normal running at least.

As reported elsewhere, the current loco-hauled diagram is going to stable at Bishops Lydeard overnight from the timetable change. I'm curious to know who will be cleaning, fuelling and preparing the set, since there isn't an obvious rotation with another diagram. Maybe it'll work down from Barton Hill on a Monday morning and back on a Friday night. But that's still a long time without any looking after?

   

I believe that the loco hauled stock to be stabled on the West Somerset Railway at Bishops Lydeard will be serviced by the WSR under contract to First Group.

Details herehttp://www.wsr.org.uk/news.htm (ftp://http://www.wsr.org.uk/news.htm)

I would visit the WSR much more if the trains started at Taunton. 

the bus link adds to the hassle and trips the balance in favour of going somewhere else for a day out

It won't be a class 67 as present either...

According to the WSR news site it's to be "ex-Virgin" (not totally sure what they mean by that, unless they're alluding to the ones that have been repainted for operations like the ATW loco-hauled set) class 57/3s, with the trains operated by First GBRf.

Having the stock stabled and serviced at Bishops Lydeard by WSR seems like an innovative and elegant MO to me.

Two Virgin liveried 57s  arrived at Eastleigh yesterday. The 'word on the platform' was that they are to be repainted for use somewhere.  All over dark blue perhaps, just like the ones that aren't in full ATW colours?

Paul

I expect most people come by car, or have driven to Minehead already, so I doubt it would vastly increase passengers.

Actually, if you read back through previous posts on this particular topic, you will note that the majority of our members posting here would visit the WSR more, if there was a rail connection from Taunton. Myself included.

We only resort to driving there because there isn't such a rail connection.  ::)

and that road just isnt fun!

Yes I am one of them who would visit Minehead more if the rail link to Taunton was restored.

Engine overhauls!

That may be true, and don't get me wrong - I think there should be a connection. But Joe Bloggs family go everywhere by car. I would imagine that <10% of WSR people arrive by car. With a rail link, it would only encourage a few more.

Que?

That doesn't even make much sense if you use a "greater than" symbol instead of the "less than"  ???  ::)

As someone who visited the WSR this year for the Mixed Traffic Gala  - the hydraulics were the main attraction for me, not Tornado  ;)  - I would like to reassure posters who may be put off by the comments about transferring from Taunton to the WSR. In the worst case scenario, the cost of a taxi to Bishop's Lydeard from Taunton is not that much when divided by 4 passengers but, as previous posters have said, during special events a WSR shuttle supplements the regular bus service. That's all you need as getting to Minehead can and should be done on the WSR itself.

The railway itself is fantastic and I can't recommend it highly enough; there's a super atmosphere, thanks to volunteers and staff, who couldn't be more obliging or welcoming, and so much to see and enjoy along the whole length of the line.

As far as I could gather from a few conversations with staff at Taunton and on the WSR, relations between the railway and NR seem to be characterised by respect and goodwill. Hopefully, at some point progress will be made at least towards establishing an interchange to enable connections - at Norton Fitzwarren or at Taunton.

Thanks, Andy!

Yes: just to clarify, I think the general concern here is over the lack of a rail connection between Taunton and Bishops Lydeard.

When I drive there, I only drive to Bishops Lydeard - I certainly wouldn't 'waste my time' driving to Minehead!  ::)

I've travelled on the WSR many moons ago when staying with a friend in Minehead so I can't comment on the current situation that accurately.

But if there is the possibility of the WSR getting back into Taunton it seems, from a distance, crazy they're not looking at it.

Surely any heritage railway that can get a connection with BR should be looking at it.

Unfortunately, as with many things these days, there are just some many issues to overcome no matter how much the WSR would love to be providing a service to Taunton.

For example, if they should want to run a service into Taunton, they'll need to undertake a full safely case, hire in Mark 3 stock from somewhere, train up all of their operational staff that operate on the mainline to have a full PTS certificate, pay Network Rail for track access, pay a driver, guard and signalmen to cover any shifts that can't be covered by volunteers etc. etc. In short, it won't be cheap.

On the other hand, if a TOC were to run onto the WSR, would a service from the main line only as far as Bishops Lydeard be worth it? Would a TOC want to tie up valuable mainline stock for 2 hours running at 25mph for the 40 mile round trip to Minehead? Would the WSR want to give up the paths over their track during the high summer season when there are very few spare (and none at all during special events)? And the infrastructure maintenance happen that's currently undertaken by volunteers on non running days - when would this happen if trains were running year round?

And whatever happens, what if some failure of WSR Infrastructure or other caused delays to mainline trains? How much would they have to pay in fines to other TOCs?

Many Heritage Railways barley get by financially, even the big ones can make ends meet because the vast majority of their workforce are volunteers. Any mainline operation could very easy bankrupt a heritage railway so the WSR are very right to be utlra caushus and not rush into a operating a service to Taunton.

TLM

In the short-term I think WSR should concentrate on developing facilities at Norton Fitzwarren. Taunton Trading Estate has masses of land that could provide a road spur from Silk Mills Lane to this potential facility. Even with the recent housing development on the former Taunton Cider site, I think there is still room for this to be realised. Now that Silk Mills LC has been bridged there would be little in the way of traffic problems to gain access to a potential WSR station at NFW. By having road access seperate from NFW village, you need not snarl up the narrow road past NFW's Co-Op and the chippy!

In the longer term a mainline Norton Fitzwarren Parkway (or name it Taunton Parkway) on the land currently occupied by Taunton Trading Estate could provide an interchange with the WSR, thus keeping WSR off the mainline into Taunton proper. This Parkway station could provide huge public transport benefits to the west of Taunton which has a large catchment area.

It would seem that the best solution ultimately would be a completely seperate  'Up Relief' into the up side bay at Taunton.