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Title: third class to return? Post by: infoman on May 19, 2021, 08:00:10 BBC breakfast news at 07:50am are reporting on avanti west coast plans to introdude a sort of third class on its fleet.
Tony Miles from modern railways magazine was giving his thoughts. Only caught tail end,so should be available if you have the play again facilty Title: Re: third class to return? Post by: Marlburian on May 19, 2021, 09:27:48 Daily Mirror article (https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/middle-class-train-service-launches-24134961)
Other news stories are available, some behind paywalls (or not liking my adblocker). Title: Re: third class to return? Post by: rogerw on May 19, 2021, 09:41:01 Copying what is available on Eurostar to an extent
Title: Re: third class to return? Post by: ChrisB on May 19, 2021, 12:22:30 And on Chiltern’s silver trains!
Title: Re: third class to return? Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 19, 2021, 16:55:38 Quote Third-class rail travel was abolished on domestic trains in Britain in 1956, and renamed second class before later being branded standard class. I wonder how many people actually call it standard class? I still haven't got out of the habit of calling it second class (if I have to specify, which I rarely do; perhaps if I did, I'd have adopted the "new" terminology). Perhaps I should put up a poll... Title: Re: third class to return?, Post by: broadgage on May 19, 2021, 17:45:04 Back in the good old days of three classes, second class was little used and only a small minority of trains had second class.
Many services had only first class and third class. It might be more accurate therefore to state that SECOND class abolished and the former third class rebranded as second. Most people still refer to first and second IME, though a significant number use "steerage" or "cattle class" for the less expensive one. BTW the international pictogram for "ticket office" is two rectangles presumably representing rail tickets, and marked with the numerals 1 and 2 presumably representing first class and second class. ISTR, that in the early days of rail privatisation that marketing whiz kids dreamed up various new trendy marketing terms for different types of rail tickets. "super economy" "Premium standard" "Silver plus" And many others, and said marketing types were somewhat disappointed to be told that ONLY "first class" and "standard class" could be used when two classes were available. If a third class is made available then I think that they may name it as they please. And I seem to remember a court judgment that "first class" had to be better than an alternative that was also offered. This after a TOC introduced new trains that were standard class only. The TOC claimed that they were "all first class" which no one believed. Title: Re: third class to return?, Post by: Surrey 455 on May 19, 2021, 20:46:20 Most people still refer to first and second IME, though a significant number use "steerage" or "cattle class" for the less expensive one. Err no. I'm in my 50's and I don't think I've ever used the term second class for trains. For me it's always been either standard class or I don't normally think about it. When you say a significant number do you mean one person - just you? Quote Back in the good old days of three classes, second class was little used and only a small minority of trains had second class. Many services had only first class and third class. They had wooden seats back then didn't they? See, the IET's are better than the trains you remember in the past. Title: Re: third class to return? Post by: JayMac on May 20, 2021, 06:03:19 Virgin Trains proposed offering three classes for the introduction of the Class 220/221s Voyagers and the Class 390 Pendolini on their West Coast and Cross Country franchises in the early 2000s. They were going to offer First Class (Club Class on Voyagers), Standard Class, and Virgin Value Class. There was talk that the latter would have been a dedicated carriage or carriages with 3+2 seating. Imagine playing sardines on a trip from Devon to Scotland!
Things got as far as the interior design stage before Virgin Trains' CEO Chris Green shelved the idea. Title: Re: third class to return? Post by: grahame on June 03, 2023, 07:21:42 End of second class - on this day (3rd June) in 1956 - from Turnip Rail (http://turniprail.blogspot.com/2011/11/rise-and-fall-of-second-class-passenger.html)
Quote The Rise and Fall of the Second Class Passenger These days we only have one numbered class of travel, first class, and what was originally known as third is now designated ‘standard.’ Yet, I was recently asked by someone about what happened to second class, given that the mere fact that we had first and third must denote that at some point we had a second. Title: Re: third class to return? Post by: Red Squirrel on June 03, 2023, 09:02:39 I was led to understand that the GWR introduced Third Class to circumvent government rules about Second Class tickets. Is this true?
I asked Google Bard, and it said: Quote Yes, that is true. The GWR introduced third class tickets in 1840 to circumvent government rules about second class tickets. At the time, the government had set a minimum price for second class tickets. This price was designed to make second class travel affordable for the middle classes, but it was still too expensive for many people. The GWR decided to introduce third class tickets at a lower price than second class tickets. This was possible because third class carriages were fitted with fewer amenities than second class carriages. Third class passengers were not allowed to use the dining car or first-class carriages, and they were only allowed to travel in open carriages. The introduction of third class tickets was a controversial move. Some people argued that it was unfair to offer a lower-quality service at a lower price. Others argued that it was a good thing that the GWR was making rail travel more affordable for people from all walks of life. The introduction of third class tickets was a success. The GWR quickly became the most popular railway company in the UK, and it helped to make rail travel a more important part of British society. In 1860, the government abolished the minimum price for second class tickets. This meant that the GWR could no longer use third class tickets to circumvent government rules. However, the GWR continued to offer third class tickets, and they remained the cheapest option for rail travel until the 1950s. Title: Re: third class to return? Post by: Worcester_Passenger on June 03, 2023, 10:44:12 They had wooden seats back then didn't they? See, the IET's are better than the trains you remember in the past. Here's a picture of the seats in the newest tram-trains on the service from Vienna to Baden-bei-Wien, a run of about an hour. Yes, that is carefully-moulded plywood. And yes, they're comfortable. Though I wouldn't fancy a long run! Title: Re: third class to return? Post by: Red Squirrel on June 03, 2023, 11:45:19 They had wooden seats back then didn't they? See, the IET's are better than the trains you remember in the past. Here's a picture of the seats in the newest tram-trains on the service from Vienna to Baden-bei-Wien, a run of about an hour. Yes, that is carefully-moulded plywood. And yes, they're comfortable. Though I wouldn't fancy a long run! IET seats are comfortable for up to 30 mins, as long as you’re under 1.6m tall and have unnaturally short legs. It’s not just what they’re made of; the geometry is all wrong. Title: Re: third class to return? Post by: Richard Fairhurst on June 03, 2023, 17:25:36 Virgin Trains proposed offering three classes for the introduction of the Class 220/221s Voyagers and the Class 390 Pendolini on their West Coast and Cross Country franchises in the early 2000s. They were going to offer First Class (Club Class on Voyagers), Standard Class, and Virgin Value Class. There was talk that the latter would have been a dedicated carriage or carriages with 3+2 seating. Imagine playing sardines on a trip from Devon to Scotland! Things got as far as the interior design stage before Virgin Trains' CEO Chris Green shelved the idea. Which is why the Voyagers devote so much space to three accessible toilets - one for each class. Virgin's reading of the accessibility regulations at the time was that each class would require its own accessible toilet. (Source: a friend of Mrs F worked for Bombardier on the design of the Voyagers.) Title: Re: third class to return? Post by: didcotdean on June 03, 2023, 17:55:06 GWR in 1840 offered passenger tickets for 1st class, 2nd class, and goods train. There were only two goods trains a day, the first leaving Paddington at 4am and the second at 9pm.
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