Great Western Coffee Shop

Lisa [my wife] has been trawling a few archives (a.k.a. old book shops, collections of postcards, etc) and came up with two showing 2nd / standard class in the 1800s and in the early 1970s.   An interesting comparison, made all the more interesting by a contemporary addition - from this March - with the same monochrome treatment.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/2nd_early.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/2nd_1970s.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/2nd_2012.jpg)

 FGW HSTs have been "improved" by the removal of tables and squashing in a few more seats, this is known as progress and is advertised as providing "thousands of extra seats"
Other TOCs have carried out much more impressive "improvements" SWT have downgraded Portsmouth services to suburban trains with 2+3 seating in steerage replacing the previously used 2+2 seating which used to be the norm on longer routes.
One of the first actions of the new TOC at Liverpool street was to replace 12 car trains with 8 car, pointing out that this provided a similar number of seats, due to being higher density.

On inner suburban services, the emphasis is not on higher density seating, but on removing seats to give more "circulating space", what most would call standing room only.
New suburban trains are increasingly "metro style" which sounds better than "designed for standing with minimal seating"

 ::)

What? Great Anglia axed carriages from packed commuter trains? >:( :o

On what basis? Where have the carriages gone?

When NXEA introduced the Class 379s 9 Class 317/7 units with low density 2+2 seating were displaced from Stansted Express workings. At the December 2011 timetable change NXEA introduced these onto the GEML services, operating mainly on peak workings with one journey from London to Norwich and one from London to Harwich in each peak period operated by a 12-car Class 317/7 formation. GA's franchise bid was on the basis that they could save money by ending the lease on the Class 317/7 units with the drop in units covered by bringing back in to service a couple of units that were on lease but used as depot 'Christmas trees', more efficient diagramming of the remaining Class 317 and Class 321 fleets and reducing a number of Off-Peak formation from 8 to 4 carriages. As a result the trains previously worked by 12-car Class 317/7s in the peak went back to Class 321 operation in February 2012, as they had been run before December 2011. The Norwich service remained as a 12-car formation, theoretically increasing seating capacity because of the change to 3+2 seating but the Harwich service was reduced to an 8-car formation, the argument being that the number of seats remained the same.

So as I read that, 9 x 317/7 units were leased by NXEA, but are no longer leased by GA.   Good explanation of the why and wherefore.   But where are the units now?  Being prepared for lease to someone else?  In use already elsewhere?   Sitting in a siding waiting for someone else to lease them?  Scrapped / about to be scrapped?

In warm storage at various locations around the country.

Meanwhile, fleeced commuters across the country are packed into sardine cans in the sweltering heat. >:(

Perhaps they should take their fleece off then.

That's two good one-liners in two days BNM - keep it up!   ;D

Thanks.   

I wonder if (when) they come back somewhere, someone will claim credit for "36 new carriages" ... ah, I'm getting to be far too cynical.

Yes, it is called progress, and it IS what customers wanted, surveys* show it.
AFAIK the now surplus stock has been returned to the leasing company for storage.
This is why I am cynical about actual or proposed new trains, the main priority of TOCs is to reduce fleet sizes and run shorter trains.
If a long distance train is overcrowded, simply add a few more seats "thousands of extra seats every month"
If a suburban service is overcrowded, then improve it by new/refurbed "metro trains"

Passengers were understandably pretty annoyed when Greater Anglia stopped leasing the 9 Class 317/7s but they bid for the franchise quite clearly intending to do this, and that made their bid the best deal for the DfT so the DfT signed up for it. The other franchise bidders didn't suggest ending the lease on some of the stock so their bids were more expensive and the DfT decided cheapest was best.

Do we know of the rolling stock plans from the other bidders?

Have the competing bids now been published, or is it just conjecture and rumour that says Abelio was the only franchise bidder planning to store rolling stock?

It's from Tony Miles on wnxx who is generally a very good source, he said that the two unsuccessful bidders bid based on the current fleet size and were told that higher rolling stock costs were a part of a reason their bids were rejected.

I wonder what reductions in train lengths or fleet size are planned by the potential new TOCs for the great western franchise ?
I wonder what routes will have 2+2 seating replaced with 2+3, this being regarded as progress.

Recent "improvements" on several main lines do not fill me with confidence regarding the proposed HST2/ICEP, or whatever it is called this week.
The original plan was for a full length, high speed, diesel train with inter city internal layout.
This has gradually changed into a 4 car DMU, with the ability to also use electric power.
A number of respected members of these forums have suggested that my views are unduly negative regarding these proposed new trains.
Do these optimists believe that the new trains will have the following

Almost all seats to be facing at tables.
2+2 seating in steerage, 2+1 in first.
Leg room, in each class no worse than a traditional HST.
A restaurant and full buffet.
At least 10 vehicles of passenger accomadation, which is only a modest improvement on an HST, 12 would be better.

I will be very suprised indeed if the new trains are thus fitted out.

What we will probably get is a 4 car DMU, with 2 tables per coach and high density bus seating layout.

Pretty full explanation of current (as of when magazine published) situation on IEP procurement by Roger Ford in July's Modern Railway.

I don't understand it! But it seems the bi-mode still lives.