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Title: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: JayMac on August 05, 2018, 12:43:36 Reports today suggesting that Trenitalia are interested in buying FirstGroup's rail division.
Some new blood and new thinking could be just the thing. Here's hoping Hapless Hopwood isn't in Trenitalia's plans if they do takeover. From The Sunday Telegraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/08/04/rivals-circle-firstgroups-assets-amid-break-up-rumours/): Quote Rivals circle FirstGroup's assets amid break-up rumours Rivals of transport giant FirstGroup are circling the struggling bus and rail operator amid hopes that a break-up is on the cards. Senior insiders have told The Sunday Telegraph that FirstGroup has held talks with state-backed Italian train titan Trenitalia over a sale of its UK rail arm. It comes just days after Dean Finch, the National Express boss, admitted to an interest in some of FirstGroup’s UK bus operations. Meanwhile, the company has appointed a crack squad of consultants to assess options for US bus subsidiary Greyhound. Wolfhart Hauser took over as executive chairman in May after under-fire chief executive Tim O’Toole quit amid full-year losses of £327m. A top-10 investor said: “I am pleased that Wolfhart has a twinkle in his eye and is getting stuck in to an executive-type role. He wants all the businesses to be run separately and nothing is ruled out … This isn’t empire building, this is how you extract value for shareholders.” FirstStudent and FirstTransit are widely considered the company’s most valuable divisions. The former is the largest school bus operator in the US. FirstGroup’s stock market valuation is just over £1bn. Another large investor said other recent deals in the sector suggested the two divisions were worth more than that, “even if you assume UK rail and bus are worthless”. FirstGroup and Trenitalia declined to comment. Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: martyjon on August 05, 2018, 12:48:53 .... Here's hoping Hapless Hopwood isn't in Trenitalia's plans if they do takeover. Don't forget TUPE. Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: Timmer on August 05, 2018, 13:53:32 I would only be too delighted to see First finally relinquish the GWR franchise after all these years. What was a good franchise turned bad in 2006 when the new three in one franchise began. However, they’ve had a lot of help from Network Rail and Dft over the years to get it into the mess it’s in today.
The first thing the new company should do is get rid of that awful fantasy and patronising Famous Five advertising campaign. Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: JayMac on August 05, 2018, 13:59:07 Yes, all staff from the bottom to the MD would TUPE to a new owner.
Nothing prevents that new owner reorganising the top table and making the MD redundant. As long as redundancy isn't solely because of TUPE then a parent company has wide scope to make changes. For instance Trenitalia could decide to have just one MD for their UK rail franchises. Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: chuffed on August 05, 2018, 14:25:59 Having used a lot of Italian trains over the last 10 years, I have been impressed with the range and efficiency of the rail network, unlike the bus services and many other aspects of Italian life. In many instances Il Duce Benito still does seem to make the trains run on time. Highlights for me have been the new Coradia Meridian built Jazz trains for rural routes, the Freccia high speed network, Aosta, Milan Centrale, and droplight windows in carriages. Lowlights have been the suburban network around the bay of Naples, and those heavy plastic swing doors in between the ubiquitous bright blue seats. And did I mention the cheap fares from machines which were always happy to accept my credit card. And the need to validate ones ticket in the invisible 'sinistra' validators often hidden away in the opposite direction to where you happen to be walking.
I am sure GWR could learn a thing or two from Trenitalia. Not so sure about the other way round ! Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: broadgage on August 05, 2018, 14:36:22 A new operator might well bring some improvements, but I fear that these will be very limited.
They cant do much about network rail infrastructure failures. They cant do much about the rolling stock downgrades. They could recruit enough staff. They could cancel the silly advertising , and use the money saved to buy a train ! And yes just one additional spare local DMU would help, looking at the number of short formations for the last couple of years. They could answer the phone and reply to letters or emails promptly. Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: Timmer on August 05, 2018, 15:28:13 I would imagine if another company were to take over GWR they would want a new MD to lead the company.
Mark Hopwood would easily find a new management role in the rail industry as there’s plenty of companies that make up the running of the railway and make plenty of money in doing so. Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: TaplowGreen on August 05, 2018, 15:54:35 I would imagine if another company were to take over GWR they would want a new MD to lead the company. Mark Hopwood would easily find a new management role in the rail industry as there’s plenty of companies that make up the running of the railway and make plenty of money in doing so. Probably a merry go round, like much of the public sector at senior levels - you've got to something spectacularly bad to get sacked, the rest just move around from job to job, get found out, trouser a chunky pay off, and move on to the next one.... Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: SandTEngineer on August 05, 2018, 17:47:00 Be careful what you wish for......https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/policy/single-view/view/fs-group-board-replaced.html
Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: devonexpress on August 17, 2018, 15:13:27 In honesty id rather a British company took it over, not some italian firm who has no idea what the british public want. What is really needed is a Co-operative style railway, money from tickets going back directly into the railway, Maximum of only 1% profit being allowed. And considering the GWR franchise made a billion pounds last year before paying out anything even that is probably too much.
Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: JayMac on August 17, 2018, 15:48:16 TOCs have to be British owned do they? FirstGroup's largest shareholder is an Austin, Texas based investment fund. Other major shareholders are Norwegian, Australian, Canadian...
To go with your British made clothes, consumer goods, food, car... Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 17, 2018, 17:10:28 I've never been to Italy but I understand their trains have a good reputation, as has been mentioned already. But I have read about the cultural background to their trains and it would seem from this, that Italian society is rail-dependent (and generally commute-dependent) in a way that Britain isn't. It's all to do with Italian love of home, of mama's cooking, of childhood friends, coupled with an economy that means people commute on a Monday morning and Friday evening basis between home towns and villages where the heart and family are to the big cities where the jobs are. Therefore the rail infrastructure gets much more support than is the case in Britain or indeed most of Europe. Here's a link to the article, in the admittedly unlikely case you have a Granta subscription (I don't, I simply picked up an old copy from a secondhand book shop). https://granta.com/trenitalia/ Note that it is from 2006, so a lot could have changed since then.
Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: TaplowGreen on August 17, 2018, 18:37:07 ……..and on top of all that, how many people would want to work for a company that is uncomfortably close to Genitalia?
Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: chuffed on August 17, 2018, 18:43:22 When you use the ticket machines anywhere in Italy a heavily accented Mickey Mouse squeak comes out of the machines saying 'Be-ware of Peekpockets' followed by 'Ask Tren-it-tally-ya staff for in-for mash-eon'. So TG's supposition is all balls anyway. ::)
Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: devonexpress on August 18, 2018, 00:50:06 TOCs have to be British owned do they? FirstGroup's largest shareholder is an Austin, Texas based investment fund. Other major shareholders are Norwegian, Australian, Canadian... To go with your British made clothes, consumer goods, food, car... Did I say they have to be British owned BigMac, NO! Please don't put words in my mouth, I said i'd prefer it, please read what I put before hitting your keyboard. What I said is and the point was, it doesn't matter how good the reputation is of a foreign company, the british system is so screwed up and misunderstood that it leads to empty promises. Hence why I suggested a co-operative railway idea. The standard commuter doesn't want a fancy ideas, such as fancy names for trains, fancy liveries, big promises to change the way of the travel experience etc, because its all a load of garbage, and funny enough the biggest and best one of those is the British company Virgin. There has also been similar situations with German, French and Chinese railways companies promising to make a big difference, and yet nothing changes! All most passengers want, is a comfortable journey, in a train that departs on time, and arrives on time, with good food and drink on board at moderate prices in a train that is fully functional, clean and well presented. To be honest its not that hard, yet for some reason we still have the same problems in our railway system as we did back in the 1930s. Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: JayMac on August 18, 2018, 02:54:03 and funny enough the biggest and best one of those is the British company Virgin. The ultimate parent company, Virgin Group Holdings Ltd, is registered in the British Virgin Islands. I totally agree with you that we have major problems in our system of running railways. I don't think cooperatives would work as a replacement for franchises. That still means profit going out of the industry, unless they were non-dividend cooperatives. But what then would be the incentive for being a member? Concessions or nationalisation. Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: devonexpress on August 22, 2018, 07:44:11 and funny enough the biggest and best one of those is the British company Virgin. The ultimate parent company, Virgin Group Holdings Ltd, is registered in the British Virgin Islands. I totally agree with you that we have major problems in our system of running railways. I don't think cooperatives would work as a replacement for franchises. That still means profit going out of the industry, unless they were non-dividend cooperatives. But what then would be the incentive for being a member? Concessions or nationalisation. Its difficult to explain what I mean by cooperative, but the easiest way to explain is go back to the pre-1948 style system, and allow local councils, community and rail campaigns (like the ones we have in Devon & Cornwall) to have a more active say in the railway. Rather than the current system of local council or community want for example a new shelter on a platform, they campaign to the TOC, the toc has to then go to Network Rail, NR have to speak to the DFT, then report back to the TOC, then if thats even had the ok, they have to find the money to pay for it. By the time thats gone full circle its nearly 2 years or more on. Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: Noggin on August 22, 2018, 10:46:51 and funny enough the biggest and best one of those is the British company Virgin. The ultimate parent company, Virgin Group Holdings Ltd, is registered in the British Virgin Islands. I totally agree with you that we have major problems in our system of running railways. I don't think cooperatives would work as a replacement for franchises. That still means profit going out of the industry, unless they were non-dividend cooperatives. But what then would be the incentive for being a member? Concessions or nationalisation. Why not call the unions' bluff and set-up the ToC's to be worker's cooperatives? It works for Waitrose and John Lewis ;-) Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: devonexpress on August 22, 2018, 18:08:36 Why not call the unions' bluff and set-up the ToC's to be worker's cooperatives? It works for Waitrose and John Lewis ;-) Except for when it backfires on the government and they find out unions actually know how to run a railway :D Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: TaplowGreen on August 22, 2018, 18:47:50 Why not call the unions' bluff and set-up the ToC's to be worker's cooperatives? It works for Waitrose and John Lewis ;-) Except for when it backfires on the government and they find out unions actually know how to run a railway :D The lesson of recent history is that unions (by no means restricted to railway unions) barely know how to run a bath. Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: SandTEngineer on August 22, 2018, 20:17:07 Why not call the unions' bluff and set-up the ToC's to be worker's cooperatives? It works for Waitrose and John Lewis ;-) Except for when it backfires on the government and they find out unions actually know how to run a railway :D The lesson of recent history is that unions (by no means restricted to railway unions) barely know how to run a bath. ....but, you forgot to mention TG, that management don't have a clue what a bath is...... Title: Re: GWR - A Trenitalia Company? Post by: TaplowGreen on August 22, 2018, 22:52:53 Why not call the unions' bluff and set-up the ToC's to be worker's cooperatives? It works for Waitrose and John Lewis ;-) Except for when it backfires on the government and they find out unions actually know how to run a railway :D The lesson of recent history is that unions (by no means restricted to railway unions) barely know how to run a bath. ....but, you forgot to mention TG, that management don't have a clue what a bath is...... I must rise in defence of GWR management on that point. I contacted Mark Hopwood asking him what a bath is......he replied straightaway (after 3 weeks of extensive consultation with his Board), confirming that it's a station not far from Bristol Temple Meads. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. 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