Great Western Coffee Shop

"Class 745" anyone?

Where might these work in GWR land - or should I ask "in red or blue land"?

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/greater-anglia-s-new-trains-take-shape-1-5371465

Yet another fleetfor GWR land?

I was thinking further ahead until some of the current stuff could do with replacement - 2022 onward, and with something like the pacers going off lease;   the 150/0s will be going, and will the 150/2s, 153s or West Country Turbos be running 15 years from now?

By which time the 745s will have been superceded?

Isn't a possible scenario that the Greater Western area could get the DMUs that Greater Anglia are casting off?

32 Class 170 carriages (8x 3car, 4 x2xcar), just 15 years old and recently refurbished with power sockets and WiFi, could be very useful.

However, the trend on refranchising at the moment is to include in bids large orders for new trains, so it's possible the next Greater Western franchisee might order new DMUs or regional bi-modes like those ordered by Abellio for Greater Anglia.

The shift to ordering new trains rather than PRM modifying, or cascading existing stock, is down to new ROSCOs entering the market. Also, train builders across Europe are offering suitable products for the UK network. New trains are becoming cheaper (provided the DfT stays away from specifying - hello IEP) and ever more efficient to operate too.

There is also a shift toward homologous fleets too. As witnessed by the Greater Anglia and South Western new train orders. Replacing disparate stock types with one type, or a family of sub types. In GAs case dumping trains that are just 16 years old (Class 170). In SWR's case dumping trains that are almost brand new (Class 707).

There will shortly be a surfeit of EMUs in the UK that aren't life expired. Consequently the older established ROSCOs will be looking to the franchises that still have large aging DMU fleets. Offering them either new build DMU, or possibly EMUs that are converted to diesel operation.

Despite the government's utterances on diesel I don't think there is any prospect of more electrification in the medium term, so its DMUs for the foreseeable.

Four franchises with large diesel fleets are up for retendering soon. Wales and Borders, East Midlands, Cross Country, and Greater Western. It wouldn't be a surprise that the winning bidders offer new build over cascade, refurbish or repurpose. With proper ROSCO competition for the first time thanks to three new entrants in the train leasing business, and a buoyant passenger train building market in Europe making ever more efficient trains, new build is the most attractive option for franchise bidders.

I do hope the next Greater Western franchise doesn't include cascades, converted EMUs or those god awful ex-LU Class 230s. Vivarail have tried and failed thus far to find anyone silly enough to place a large order for their LU train with van engines bolted on.

XC could usefully take those 170s offloaded by GA

Signing a lease so close to the end of a franchise is unlikely. Unless the lessor can get a Section 54 agreement from the DfT.

Section 54 of the Railways Act 1993 allows the DfT to insist that new franchisees take on certain stock for the length of the franchise.

I agree they'd be better utilised in a franchise area that has existing Class 170s.

I meant for the new franchise bidders

My apologies. I took your 'XC' to mean the current franchisee, XC Trains Ltd, trading as CrossCountry.

Logic might suggest that some 170s go to replace the loco and coaches on the Fife Circle in Scotland (unless another solution is already in hand to replace these two odd trains?) - thus removing a train type from Scotland

Others to whoever's running the Cardiff to Nottingham and Birmingham to Stansted services by that time, and I have heard a suggestion that the daily service via Bristol to Brighton could be started back from Cardiff and might then logically be "Cross Country" material; 170s would be natural there too, joined up as they would be to the rest of the XC grouping.

But Scotrail are returning 21of their existing Class 170s to the ROSCO. 16 have been earmarked for Northern.

Ah - OK - Hadn't seen the latest chess moves  ;D

If anything I would expect GWR to look to Hitachi for its regional/semi fast trains AT100/AT200? Whilst the 150/2, 158s and 165/166s are good trains but lets face it they won't last forever. The 150s are 25 years old, the 158s might be ok for another 10 - 15 years, but the 165/166s are knackered.

The 150's are much older than that being nearly 35 years old (actually between 31 and 34 years old this year).

The 158's are a little bit (5 yrs) younger (between 26 & 29 yrs old) and of a similar vintage to the 165/166's.