Great Western Coffee Shop

There are a number of ways of interpreting that...  :D

If there are any rhubarb crowns at Frome  they could well be getting some additional fertiliser as the crowds disembark ::)

I thought this was going to be a thread about the Rhubarb Tavern.  :(

Ah ... the train used the Rhubarb loop ... named after that hostelry, I believe!

And the hostelry was named after the rhubarb fields that were in the vicinity many years ago. Or so I am lead to believe. It's a bit difficult to picture now though.

NO, NO ,NO, NOOOOO. It looks like its about the section of track from dr days to somerset jcn, Was I believe removed when the badminton line opened and reinstated some 8 years later.

Is this the loop that runs from the line south of Temple Meads through St Philip's and back on itself?

No - it's the loop from that runs from the line from Bath to the line headed north, allowing trains to skip Bristol Temple Meads - between the two pushpins on this map:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/rloopmap.jpg)

Yup, the Rhubarb Tavern lies on the side of the road that goes under the railway between the two pushpins, right next to the railway bridge.

Ah, Rhubarb Curve! You should have said...

https://goo.gl/maps/vhMtKfbQ6Yr

Thanks. (And the streetview – hmm, I thought the name seemed vaguely familiar, I realize it's cos I used to pass that Tavern twice a week on my way to Barton Hill trading estate.  :-[)

Follow up: the two green pins are Dr Day's Junction (the northern one) and Bristol East junction (the, er, eastern one)?

From the Bristol Rail (http://bristol-rail.co.uk/wiki/Dr_Days_Junction) site:


See also http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12179.msg128987#msg128987

The eastern pin is on North Somerset jct, which marked the start if the late lamented North Somerset Railway. Bristol East jct is the western vertex of the triangle; presumably so-named because it is to the east of Temple Meads Station.

Edit: Before someone corrects me, the eastern vertex of the triangle is actually Feeder Bridge jct; North Somerset jct is a few metres further east and connects the line to St Philip's Marsh.

All clear. Thanks (and probably apologies in advance for the next time I forget and ask again ::)).

Well I became more knowledgeable about the Rhubarb today. I was at Parkway heading back to Temple Meads, oh look there's a train for Bath just about to leave, the 1554. Hopped on it and... oh, it goes round the Rhubarb rather than calling at Temple Meads. How odd. How inconvenient. How embarrassing. Fortunately the guard was understanding – actually said I was the second person on that very train to make the same mistake – as was the guard of the train I got back from Bath. Lesson learnt: always check the intermediate stations.  ::) :-[

Anyway, I don't think I'd ever been along that loop before, so it's an ill routing decision and all that...  :-\

I had no idea they did that avoidance of Temple Meads.

Well at least you managed to 'bash' a new bit of track...... ;D

It's  the "Parly" - used to avoid them having to go through a closure procedure on what was once a well used route.

Train managers will be understanding ... same thing has been know to happen (especially prior to 2013) with passengers at Trowbridge headed for Bath Spa ...

To avoid closing the Rhubarb? I see. I had no idea there were closure procedures for individual bits of track in the same way as for stations. And I'd kind of assumed the Rhubarb was used for freight and for getting empty trains into the right place as well as whatever else might have a reason to avoid BRI.

Another thing which struck me as odd was that it called at Lawrence Hill but not Stapleton Rd. It was a remarkably well-used train for a Parly!

Is that the train between Filton Abbey Wood and Bath that carries the MOD workers who were relocated from Bath?

Those services that use the Rhubarb curve are a remnant of the services introduced when Filton Abbey Wood was opened together with the MOD which brought many passengers fram Bath who were transferred there from their various scattered locations in that city.

That makes sense. And there were quite a lot of people who boarded at Filton, some in uniform.

There is a significant flow of commuters past Bristol Temple Meads - from the Avon Valley (Keysham, Oldfield Park, Bath, Freshford) and the upper Avon Valley (Avoncliff, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge and beyond) to Filton Abbey, Patchway and Aztec West ... and the remaining Rhubarb train suits the inner sections of those flows, for people who have jobs which they can leave earlier than the traditional 5 p.m. finish.  So much stronger in passenger use than many "parly"s.

How / whether services from Wiltshire through to Filton Abbey Wood / stations beyond to Newport, avoiding Temple Meads, are justified in their own rights is an interesting question - perhaps a case for commuter time trains but additionally having good off peak service at Patchway, Aztec West, Pilning, Severn Tunnel Junction, Magor, Newport and St Mellons  even with a delay / reversal at Temple Meads.  That way, you have a commuter service that is relatively fast, supplemented by a service that takes 15 minutes longer for those who sometimes have to travel away from the peak.

In bygone days, days of which I can remember, most, if not all, services between Cardiff and the South Coast via Salisbury / Southampton used the Rhubarb Curve as Stapleton Road was the Junction for South Wales.

This particular train turned round at Bath. In fact the helpful guard said "Just get the next train back from Bath and explain to the guard, but it'll probably be me anyway because... " (in fact a Portsmouth-Cardiff train arrived first). And it didn't stop at Stapleton Road either, for some reason. But places change: I don't know what Stapleton Road was like "in bygone days" but I'd say now there are a lot of people living nearby but probably not many commuter destinations, whereas Temple Meads has become the centre of many office developments.

And many of the trains carried on around the east to north loop at Newport via Hereford and Shrewsbury ... that loop was subject of a closure procedure a few years ago of the sort that would be needed if the single Rhubarb Loop train was withdrawn. Other loops in the GW area include Didcot West to North, served by one (XC) train per day, and the service from London to Bristol via the Westbury East to North curve - an experiment - was withdrawn a few days before it could no longer be classed as an experiment to avoid a closure procedure.

Yes, individual lengths of track are definitely in scope.  A couple in the London area over the last few years have boiled down to very short sections of passenger use, a good example was a train from somewhere off the GW via the West London line into Waterloo in the early days of Eurostar, which left a section of track a few hundred yards long, (Sheepcote Ln curve), unused by passenger services just east of Clapham Jn. 

Then there were long winded closure arguments when DfT ended XC trains via Kensington Olympia.  Again most of the route was by then covered by other operators such as LO, but a couple of short stretches saw no passenger trains.  Initially a bus ran from Ealing Broadway via Shepherds Bush but I think DfT argued that the Central Line duplicated it, and for a short time Southern ran an offpeak short working between Shepherds Bush, (or maybe Kenny O),and Wandsworth Rd, effectively an ECS with passengers.  This covered the third side of a triangle near Clapham Jn.

The DfT’s consultation report is here: https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/3666/closures-ekw-dft-consultation.pdf

This all took place about 5 years after the XC service ceased, they probably thought they’d got away with it.  Other documents on the ORR site reveal that even London Travelwatch get confused between withdrawal of a passenger service and physical removal of a line,  DfT had to emphasise that the track was being retained for freight or ECS moves.

Paul

I have rounded the Rhubarb only once from Parkway, on a train to Paddington diverted because of over-running engineering works one Monday morning. I was told I could get an earlier train and be only 15 minutes late, but my breakfast was on that one, as as it rolled into the station, I saw that the Chair of the working group I was going to was on it, so she would be as late as me. We were further diverted via Westbury - all in all a lovely excursion with all the coffee and pastries I wanted, the sort people pay good money for.

My partner, who works in Filton, uses this service on those rare occasions when she can finish work early. It is definitely popular, and I suspect a similar service (or preferably services) running an hour later would be even more so. Large numbers commute from the Bath stations to the Filton area, not just to MoD but to numerous other local employers, or are college students at the college there (where my partner works). No doubt there is also some commuting in the opposite direction into Bath, Keynsham or Trowbridge. At present they have to commute standing up in overcrowded trains that sit around Temple Meads for a long time (especially as they often seem to get delayed while waiting there), whereas a Rhubarb route train would shorten their journey time considerably and probably give a more pleasant journey as well.

....and just out of interest here is what it looked like in the mid-1960s (all six tracks of it) looking South at Dr.Days Bridge Junction:

(https://railphotoprints.uk/img/s/v-3/p263096358-3.jpg)

I think that is a jolly good idea. It would make things easier at Temple Meads too. If a way could be found, it would be, as you say, very popular.

I mentioned my mis-training on another (non-rail) forum and you'd be amazed – or perhaps you wouldn't – how many people said they'd done similar, including someone from Suffolk who jumped on a 13-coach London-bound train instead of the 2-coach local branch-line train to get the two stops from Ipswich to Woodbridge! "Best" though were the people who'd managed to board the wrong plane.  :o

This was when Stapleton Road became pretty much the 2nd busiest station in Bristol as it was a main interchange station, not just for passengers on the Severn Beach line but also to split trains travelling south onwards to either Bath or further to the SW via Temple Meads

This was mainly due to the fact that in the days of steam a reversal at BRI would obviously take considerable time.  So passengers for Bath and onwards would change at SRD to go around the Rhubarb, and also for BRI for journeys to the SW

Obviously once reversals became a lot more common / easier with the introduction of DMU's this negated much less lengthy layovers at BRI

A pal of mine who lives near Parkway and travelled to work by train once jumped on the only train of the day from BRI  nonstop to Birmingham, leading to a shrivelled dinner. My favourite, poor chap, was on a train from Birmingham to Bristol on a day when the cock-up fairy had been extra busy at New Street. No signals, no PIDs, staff issuing contradictory advice, the lot. Eventually, I found the train myself, a long way from its booked platform, and checked with the TM. As we eventually pulled out, an elderly gentleman of oriental appearance asked him "What time do we get to Telford?" About midnight, you, I thought.

Rhubarb in the media!
https://www.bristol247.com/food-and-drink/pubs-and-bars/pub-of-the-week-the-rhubarb-tavern/