Great Western Coffee Shop

As some of you may have read in the thread at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17825.0 , I travelled out from Melksham to Motherwell on Friday and back on Saturday. A great chance to observe outside the GWR area and take pictures to remind me of some things I saw; some individual comments and thoughts to appear elsewhere and although I'm posting in "the lighter side" some very interesting and serious thought arise.

But to start in "the lighter side" and a bit of an experiment - can you put these in the order they were taken, knowing my journey?   One or two may be impossible to know where they were taken at the same place.   Can I suggest members chip in with what they can identify and we'll see where we end up - I'm going to apply a light touch, and not going to limit number of identifications either.

1. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio01.jpg)

2. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio07.jpg)

3. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio12.jpg)

4. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio19.jpg)

5. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio22.jpg)

6. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio23.jpg)

7. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio24.jpg)

8. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio33.jpg)

9. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio37.jpg)

a. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio38.jpg)

b. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio43.jpg)

c. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio44.jpg)

d. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio51.jpg)

e. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio54.jpg)

f. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio63.jpg)

g. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio65.jpg)

h. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio76.jpg)

i. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio77.jpg)

j. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio82.jpg)

k. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio90.jpg)

2 is the old Curzon Street station Building in Birmingham on the East side of New street Station.  Whether it is north or south of New street depends on what route your train took - it would only be on you route south of New Street if the train took the camp hill route.  It could be on the north if your train came from Derby.

d, is Preston. Looks like the newly extended and rarely used platform 7 (mainly) southbound. The girders above the policemen's heads is where a divergence though to the L&Y side of the station (towards the photographer) went in its pre-1972 days. Platforms 5 and 6 now lengthened and straightened. So you're on you way home by my guess!

8 looks like Birmingham New St.

g. is Newcastle - the Queen Elizabeth II Metro Bridge with the Tyne bridge seen through it. So looking eastwards, though the train could be going either way. But I know the outward trip was done via this route, and I don't think the return was, so most likely it was travelling north.

6 is the River Tweed at Berwick, looking upstream.

You did say no limit on numbers, so (c) is the River Tweed at Berwick, looking downstream towards the two road bridges and Tweedmouth. (c) is probably slightly before (6).

a and f are both Bristol Temple Meads.  a being Platform 3 and f the subway stairs to Platform 4 [and 3].

correct - a quiz without limits

j, I think, must be Ashchurch.

I think that (e) is the old Brightside station near Meadowhall.

Logically, one of those ought to be Motherwell. And it's h. Almost dark, so it would be arriving on Friday at 16:30.

I think you may mean Rotherham Masborough: this looks like the down loop, extremely overgrown (trees of diameter 2 inches plus) but with spanking new LED signals at either end.

Looks like you're coming along well (and I did say I was going to answer "lite') - all but one pictures placed to the right town so far (and the one that's wrong is a bit of a nasty one to work out!)

You'll see from other threads a log of the Cross Country train all the way from Cheltenham Spa via the East Coast to Motherwell ... where I worked until 16:35 on the Saturday before setting off home - I got to my home in Melksham, near as darn it, to midnight.  I suspect that information will tell you exactly which trains I was on ... so where I was on the platform.

Hope your camera was ok after someone sneezed on it before taking picture b  :)

I think 7 is Cheltenham Spa

No - it's Gloucester, Platform 4.

That girder would look much the same from the other side - from P4, where the Virgin trains do come in. That means P7 is in the background. Same change of trains on the way home, though.

5 just has to be Melksham, doesn't it? SWT unit arriving, brand new shelter, just before dawn on the Friday.

And that's a good start to putting the pictures in order  ;D

There's a few pictures yet (1, 4, b, i, k)  which no-one has attempted to place; with all the other (bar one), the location where the picture was taken has been suggested.

1. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio01.jpg)

4. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio19.jpg)

b. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio43.jpg)

i. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio77.jpg)

k. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio90.jpg)

I internally debated that possibility but it is the buildings in the background that look like the the NUR's main island building on platforms 3 & 4 and not the L&YR building (remains) on the east side.  The lift shaft on the intervening platforms (5 & 6) are towards the centre of the station and the girders to the outside.  Was has caused me anguish is the condition of the platform in the foreground.  The old platform 7 (10 years ago) was a derelict short and curved remnant from the old L&YR station at which trains never stopped, nor was it numbered.

But, as you say, on the way home.

1 looks like a London Midland 170 and b a GWR 150, but I can't quite make out what might be beyond those windows...  ;D

I've found (well,Google did really) a few more pictures that show that girder - it's well towards the London end, and the lifts and subway are the other side of the first buildings on 3&4. So that square boarded pillar isn't a lift shaft.

And I've spotted something else in those pictures, too. Graham's no. 3 - which I don't think was guessed, so ought to have been repeated above - is also Preston: the railings on the big ramp from 3&4 up to the footbridge. The paintwork looks better in the older picture (from 2007), than now.

Of course there's no way of saying what order 3 and d come in!

I thought that red (Lancastrian) rose looked familiar, and from the blue reflections on the iron work it looks like it might be taken in daylight, i.e. not flash.  If so 3 is Preston on the way north in the daytime,  and 'd' on the way home a subsequent evening.

Oddly, I looked at it and thought it was obviously taken under artificial light! It's these modern cameras, even ones in phones, that don't need flash even in quite poor indoor lighting. Anyway, the man says he didn't go that way on Friday, and there are limits to how sneaky (even) he would be (I hope).

Right, let's have a go at the order then, although I suspect this will need some tweaking!

5, j, 1, 2, k, e, g, c, 6, h, 3, d, 9, 8, 7, a, f, b, i, 4

You are correct on that will need some tweaking - but not very much.   An impressive first guess from a member with a reputation for knowing his places!

Yes, I thought picture b was taken moments after an explosion in the local Fuzzy Felt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_Felt) factory.  ::)

And I thought grahame had captured an image of a group of Dr Who extras from the 1980s. The era when the budget for make-up was tens of pounds.

Is i before b ?  :-\

[quote  ;Dauthor=Chris from Nailsea link=topic=17859.msg208094#msg208094 date=1484169204]
Is i before b ?  :-\


[/quote]
Yes but only after C. ;D

I did post that query somewhat quizzically - bearing in mind how Stephen Fry very nearly lost it over a similar discussion on QI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duqlZXiIZqA).  Enjoy.  ;)

And this is an exception.


A more specific comment from me ... if you move just three of the pictures (in each case by quite a distance - no local swaps) you'll have it 100% correct.  I'm dreadful at predicting, but one of the changes should be easy to spot, a second one you probably need to know, and the third you're likely to accuse me of being somewhat devious.

Ok. Well I can confidently move picture 1 (the London Midland 170) to between d and 9 (Preston and Birmingham New Street respectively), being the train I think you must have changed onto at Wolverhampton on your way back, which helps to explain how you had time to take so many snaps as you passed through New Street!

Guesswork now, but picture 4 looks as if it was taken in the dark, but perhaps in the morning rather than the evening? Is it at Chippenham? In which case it would belong between 5 and j.

As for a third one, I can only think it's picture k, but where it is taken I have no idea?

So between us we have;
5 Melksham
4 Chippenham?
j Ashchurch (presumably checked by a late running freight train)
2 Curzon Street (leaving Birmingham New Street)
k ?
e Brightside Station, Sheffield
g Newcastle upon Tyne
c Berwick upon Tweed
6 Berwick upon Tweed
h Motherwell
3 Preston
d Preston
1 Between Wolverhampton and Birmingham New Street
9 New Street (going up to the concourse)
8 New Street (on the concourse)
7 Gloucester
a Bristol Temple Meads (on arrival at platform 3)
f Bristol Temple Meads (in the subway heading for the 2320 to Frome)
b Between Bristol and Bradford on Avon
i Bradford on Avon

Are we getting closer grahame?

Yes.   You have the correct three identified for out of order, and only one remains incorrectly ordered in the latest list. Impressive.

Two pictures are in the right order but locations taken are "miles out".

A slightly wider view of k might help

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio99.jpg)

My guess for k, based on it being a grain-growing area but fairly hilly, and the train looks like it was moving at some speed, is...

Somewhere in North Yorkshire, probably in the valley north of Northallerton. If the red sign is a level crossing sign, I think there are some along there.

A slightly wider view of k might help

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/pio99.jpg)
[/quote]

Call for aid leads me to think that's taken in the toilet on one of Mr Branson's trains, so that puts k between h and 1 on the return - couldn't say where precisely, but that's your devious photo ;)

Guessing 4 isn't Chippenham, so working along that journey to Gloucester, maybe Kemble?

And the other wrong location....well, I wonder if the style of ironwork shown in 3 can also be seen at another station north of Preston?

Or, for an alternatively theory ... the sign is inside the train, next to the wheelchair space. It's in focus, which is why the world isn't. So it's a field - but outside all of the depth of field. The light says he sun was pretty low, so early or late going north - the return was all done after dark. The land form is more northern than southern, and so is the lack of anything built. Official sunset in Edinburgh was a few minutes after you went through, but the light looks earlier than that so let's say East Lothian.

It is indeed my devious photo - in the loo on Mr Branson's train from Motherwell.  

It could well be what you would see in many UK places (including Northern England / Southern Scotalnd) in the summer, but the seasonality's all wrong for it being an "out the window" in January.  "Winter Wheat"?



All pictures are in the right order ... which in some ways is the completion of the challenge.  Two locations remain incorrect; two pictures taken within a couple of minutes of each other too!   You have identified one of the problems being no. 4.  

I was going to say that no 4 presumably cannot be Chippenham, as that now has a lift. It could be also at Ashchurch? (though I cannot work out why you would have been at Ashchurch at that time of the morning for j).

As regards the winter wheat - damn, of course it couldn't have been out of the window. So obvious now. (as they say, eliminate the impossible and whatever is left must be the case, however unlikely)

When I looked at k and asked "is that grass in that field, or what?", I just decided it was too fuzzy to tell. But the light does look rather summery, now. No, what I thought looked wrong then, and ought to have betrayed the deception, was that alarm point. It seems to be stuck onto a window - but you couldn't really do that, could you? I didn't think of a mirror, though - let alone a fuzzy mural.

As I recall, Ashchurch has darned long slopes up to the footbridge and no steps.   I can't work out why I would have been as Ashchurch at that time of the morning either - apart from passing for the second or two the voyager took to pass through.

I couldn't see how you would have had an opportunity to take j on Ashchurch station either, though the times shown are identifiably those for Ashchurch. So were they maybe displayed at Cheltenham as well?

I don't think CNM has a lift, but it does have both ramps (rather steep ones) and stairs as a shorter route to the footbridge. So maybe 4 is there too; to be read as "There's an accessible toilet and it can be reached up the stairs and over the bridge. There's a longer way via the ramp if you need it (and can cope or have someone to push)".

Well done everyone - think you got there very well ... a bit of a change from individual pictures. 

Northbound
5. Melksham
j. Cheltenham Spa (picture of Ashchurch RUG board!)
4. Cheltenham Spa (j and 4 ok either way)
2. Curzon Street, Birmingham
e. Rotherham Masborough or Brightside (not sure which!)
g. Newcastle upon Tyne
c. just south of Berwick upon Tweed
6. Royal Border Bridge, Berwick upon Tweed

Southbound
h. Motherwell
k. Motherwell to Preston - wall picture in loo on Pedelino!
3. Preston
d. Preston (3 and d ok either way round)
1. Wolverhampton to Birmingham
9. Birmingham New Steet
8. Birmingham New Street
7. Gloucester
a. Bristol Temple Meads
f. Bristol Temple Meads
b. near Freshford
i. Bradford-on-Avon

5, j, 1, 2, k, e, g, c, 6, h, 3, d, 9, 8, 7, a, f, b, i, 4


Here are some pictures not cropped quite so hard.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/piox1.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/piox2.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/piox3.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/piox4.jpg)

Very cunning! I've used Cheltenham Spa many times but never noticed the Ashchurch RUG board. Whereabouts on the station is it?

I'd actually almost unconvinced myself about 3. Having spotted the railings at Preston, but in different colours, all I could do to confirm the match was check the surroundings (no help) and the lighting. Knowing it had to be in darkness, was it in indoor light? Qualitywise the answer was yes, but on second thoughts why is it lit from a single source?

Looking at d, taken with those railings not so far behind, there are a lot of very bright looking overhead lights. That doesn't seem to fit. Maybe LED lamps, well placed, can produce even lighting with large areas seeing only a single source. Or something.

It's at the bottom of the staircase on platform 2 - so close to the stairs it would obstruct their use if a group gathered.  If you're changing trains and not changing platforms (and most Cheltenham Spa changes are same platform), you won't pass it - likewise if you use the slope not the stairs.

Although I put these pictures as a quiz in the lighter side, I took and take them as reminders of what I learn and see as I travel - to help things not to be forgotten, and in some cases (but I never know which as I take them!) to back up the outgoing written word.

So what did I learn from this series / trip?   Memories of

... one of the very few Cross Country services to Bristol that calls at Gloucester, how it loads, passenger numbers there, and how it fits into the timetable with regard (f)utility and otherwise

... the strong presence of the BTP on Saturday evening - noted especially at Preston and Bath Spa, at the same time as the station buffet pushing bulk sales (4 for £7 for the train at Preston)

... only two trains remaining on the departure board at Bristol Temple Meads and my astonishment at 6 carriages on the Frome.   The picture of how that loaded out of Bath Spa shows the need for a substantial train even that late at night

... lack of connections at Gloucester for Stroud and Swidon, and at Bristol for Chippenham (and Swindon)

... The late train to Frome (and after quite a gap in services to Westbury) calling at Bath Spa a few minutes after the last buses onwards to Melksham and to Chippenham

... Once delayed, out of path and seemingly checked all the way on XC.  Felt slow but despite the checks lost little more time

... Sparse offerings to XC at Alnmouth and Berwick upon Tweed.  Probably VERY unfair, as I suspect that the traffic we should have been carrying had been mopped up by other trains (we were 40 late at this point)

... Quite a few people getting off at Motherwell (of all places!)

... Some excellent train crew announcements about ongoing connections, and about the ability to claim delay repay.  The connection announcements are getting far better than they ever were; I have noted it on GWR but not on this trip, and on XC and Virgin West Coast.  Coming in to Birmingham, all we got on LM was "this train terminates / all change" and there's no display as you get off to tell you where to go

... Highest %age loadings - Wakefield to Leeds,  Melksham to Chippenham, Bath Spa to Freshford.  Everyone who wanted could be seated in each case, but then none of the services was what I would expect to be the busiest of the day. 

... least %age loadings - Cheltenham Spa to Bimingham New Street,  Wolverhampton to Birmingham New Steet

Probably more to add but I'm off into a busy day ;)

The demand at Bath Spa could easily fill trains for several hours after the last ones go. I'm always astonished at how many people I see coming into Bath for a night out on the last train or bus from places all around, and wondering how on earth they then get home again.  ???

The only people left on the platform as the train pulled out was a bunch (not sure what the collective term is for them) of BTP officers.

Final departures from Bath on Saturday night
-> 22.46 to Chippenham and Swindon
-> 23.09 to Oldfield Park and Keynsham
-> 23.25 all stations to Frome
-> 01:10 Bristol Temple Meads only

Could REALLY do with a Chippenham and a late Melksham connection!