Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: broadgage on March 15, 2021, 04:20:20



Title: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: broadgage on March 15, 2021, 04:20:20
"no need to study timetables" as more services will be turn up and go.
"An end to diesel buses" at some future and yet to be decided date.
And other splendid ideas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56395526 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56395526)

Meanwhile in my local area (and no doubt in many other places) providing bus stop signs is too expensive.
Locals know where the buses stop, but visitors dont.
Maybe this time will be better than the previous "improvemenrs"


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: Lee on March 15, 2021, 05:43:35
The devil will be in the detail, but at first glance this certainly looks like the government is proposing a similar system to the one that people like grahame and myself have advocated for a number of years with our Option 24/7 proposal (http://option247.uk/O247proposal.pdf), as it looks like only bus services provided under enhanced partnerships or bus franchising will be eligible for continued support or any new sources of funding.

There is also a commitment to "integrated services and ticketing across all transport modes, so people can easily move from bus to train". Option 24/7 have a specific proposal for that regarding the Melksham area (http://www.mrug.org.uk/mkm2020_o247.pdf), although there may now be scope to look into enhanced routes and frequencies as a result of this announcement. I was already looking into future options for both Melksham and Westbury on behalf of grahame and Phil, and will report on this soon.

Finally, I note a commitment to:

- deliver 4,000 new British-built electric or hydrogen buses will provide clean, quiet, zero-emission travel

- transition cities and regions across England to emission-free buses, safeguarding the UK bus manufacturing industry

- end sales of new diesel buses

A year ago, I put forward a proposal to make a Melksham a DfT Electric Bus Town (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/britains-first-all-electric-bus-town-to-pave-the-way-for-green-communities-of-the-future) and I will be updating that as a result of this announcement as well.

Full text of DfT release: (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-launches-3-billion-bus-revolution)

Quote from: DfT
- government publishes major new bus strategy, outlining most ambitious reform to the sector in a generation

- buses will be more frequent, cheaper, greener, and easier to use as government continues its levelling up agenda

- councils and operators will work in partnership for the benefit of passengers

Prime Minister Boris Johnson today (15 March 2021) unveils the most ambitious shake-up of the bus sector in a generation, which will see lower, simpler flat fares in towns and cities, turn-up-and-go services on main routes, and new flexible services to reconnect communities.

The government’s new bus strategy, backed by £3 billion of investment, will see passengers across England benefiting from more frequent, more reliable, easier to use and understand, better coordinated and cheaper bus services.

Levelling up services across the country will encourage more people to use the bus, rather than the car, as we build back better from the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic.

The changes include:

- simpler bus fares with daily price caps, so people can use the bus as many times a day as they need without facing mounting costs

- more services in the evenings and at the weekends

- integrated services and ticketing across all transport modes, so people can easily move from bus to train

- all buses to accept contactless payments

Hundreds of miles of new bus lanes will make journeys quicker and more reliable, getting people out of their cars, reducing pollution and operating costs.

The Prime Minister’s ten point plan sets out how we will accelerate the transition to greener and more sustainable transport.

We will:

- deliver 4,000 new British-built electric or hydrogen buses will provide clean, quiet, zero-emission travel

- transition cities and regions across England to emission-free buses, safeguarding the UK bus manufacturing industry

- end sales of new diesel buses, and we have launched a consultation on the end date today.

We expect to see local authorities and operators working together to deliver bus services that are so frequent that passengers can just ‘turn up and go’ – no longer needing to rely on a traditional timetable and having the confidence they won’t wait more than a few minutes.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said:

Buses are lifelines and liberators, connecting people to jobs they couldn’t otherwise take, driving pensioners and young people to see their friends, sustaining town centres and protecting the environment.

As we build back from the pandemic, better buses will be one of our first acts of levelling-up.

Just as they did in London, our reforms will make buses the transport of choice, reducing the number of car journeys and improving quality of life for millions.

The fragmented, fully commercialised market, which has operated outside London since 1986 will end. We want to see operators and local councils enter into a statutory “enhanced partnership” or franchising agreements to receive the new funding and deliver the improvements.

It is expected that many councils will choose enhanced partnerships, where local authorities work closely with bus companies, drawing on their operating knowledge and marketing skills. Others may decide that franchising works better for them.

Because of the decline in use caused by the pandemic, bus operators have already received significant emergency support from the government. From this summer, only services under these arrangements will be eligible for continued support or any new sources of funding from the £3 billion transformational investment. The government will also consult later this year on reforming the Bus Service Operators Grant – the current main stream of government bus funding – to achieve the same objectives.

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps, said:

Buses are this country’s favourite way of getting around. They help us get to school, to the GP, or to the shops – but services across England are patchy, and it’s frankly not good enough.

The quality of bus service you receive shouldn’t be dependent on where you live. Everyone deserves to have access to cheap, reliable and quick bus journeys.

The strategy we’re unveiling today will completely overhaul services, ensuring we build back better from the pandemic. Key to it is the new deal it offers to councils – we will provide unprecedented funding, but we need councils to work closely with operators, and the government, to develop the services of the future.

Andy Street, Mayor of the West Midlands, said:

Buses are the backbone of public transport in the West Midlands, carrying more than 250 million people every year. Today’s strategy is therefore very welcome, and will enable big city regions such as ours to ensure buses remain at the heart of our future transport plans. Residents here want clean, decarbonised buses that are affordable and continue to remain reliable and punctual, and that’s what the new strategy laid out today will deliver.

Anthony Smith, chief executive of independent watchdog Transport Focus, said:

For bus passengers, today’s announcement of more frequent buses and simpler fares will be welcome news. For many, buses are a lifeline to employment, education, medical appointments and leisure, and are essential to the economy. We know that the key priorities for those considering using the bus are more services running more reliably, providing better value.

Since the pandemic, safety and cleanliness have become ever more important. We will work with bus operators and other partners to make sure passengers’ needs are at the heart of new arrangements.

It also sets out ambitions to provide greater access to bus services for all, with plans revealed to require ‘next stop’ announcements onboard buses throughout Great Britain, helping disabled passengers and others to travel with confidence. The government will also launch a consultation on new regulations to improve access onboard buses for wheelchair users.

London-style services aren’t appropriate for all rural and suburban areas, which is why the Department for Transport is today also announcing the recipients of the £20 million from the government’s ‘Rural mobility fund’, which enables on-demand services – such as minibuses booked via an app – to be trialled in areas where a traditional bus service isn’t appropriate.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: grahame on March 15, 2021, 08:56:13
"no need to study timetables" as more services will be turn up and go.
"An end to diesel buses" at some future and yet to be decided date.
And other splendid ideas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56395526 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56395526)

Meanwhile in my local area (and no doubt in many other places) providing bus stop signs is too expensive.
Locals know where the buses stop, but visitors dont.
Maybe this time will be better than the previous "improvemenrs"

The government wants to implement some excellent ideas, and is providing some funding.

Good.  Lets's look to work (as passengers and the community) with them, with the operators and with the councils in partnerships to help realise mutual objectives.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: bobm on March 15, 2021, 09:08:50
Wasn’t this announcement at least partially made over a year ago?

 Government pledges £5bn for bus services and cycling routes (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51453457)

Edit to sort out 'tags' - grahame


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: Lee on March 15, 2021, 09:32:52
Wasn’t this announcement at least partially made over a year ago?

 Government pledges £5bn for bus services and cycling routes (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51453457)

Edit to sort out 'tags' - grahame

Its the "partially" that's really key here. What was missing from last year's announcement of the government's intentions was the full commitment to the Option 24/7-style strategy that was outlined today, and that's ultimately what I think will make the biggest difference.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: TonyK on March 15, 2021, 14:54:35
I shall try not to get too excited. After all, while it sounds a lot of money, £230 million only buys you a maximum of 3 buses per hour on three routes in a small city, closing down at 7pm.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: Lee on March 15, 2021, 16:07:22
I shall try not to get too excited. After all, while it sounds a lot of money, £230 million only buys you a maximum of 3 buses per hour on three routes in a small city, closing down at 7pm.

Blimey, who quoted you that?!! In 2018, I did an exercise that estimated that the annual cost of running the entire proposed North and West Wiltshire Option 24/7 pilot area bus network would cost sonewhere between £9.5 million and £10.5 million per annum, and that was if you made it fare-free!

Why not define several trunk (spine routes) that are free.

That got me thinking - What if we took the core bus routes from our Option 24/7 North & West Wiltshire Bus Franchising Proposal Pilot Area (http://option247.uk/pilot_01.pdf), franchised them and then made them fare-free?

These would be the following colour-coded service groups:

TRANSWILTS YELLOW - Bath-Corsham-Chippenham corridor including Chippenham and Corsham town bus routes.

TRANSWILTS GREEN - Bath-Melksham-Devizes and Chippenham-Melksham-Trowbridge-Frome corridors including Melksham and Devizes town bus routes.

TRANSWILTS ORANGE - Chippenham-Calne-Royal Wootton Bassett-Swindon and Chippenham/Calne-Devizes and Trowbridge-Devizes/Calne-Marlborough corridors including Calne town bus routes.

TRANSWILTS BLUE - Bath-Bradford-on-Avon-Trowbridge-Westbury-Warminster-Salisbury corridor including Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge, Westbury and Warminster town bus routes.

Using grahame's Working out the costs of running a bus service through the day (http://www.wellho.net/mouth/4639_Working-out-the-costs-of-running-a-bus-service-through-the-day.html) as a guide, I allowed for a Monday-Saturday roster of 40 vehicles on a 13-hour cycle between 0600-1900 and 12 vehicles on an 18-hour cycle between 0600-2400, plus a Sunday roster of 12 vehicles on a 16-hour cycle between 0800-2400.

I estimated that this would come out somewhere between £9.5 million and £10.5 million per annum depending on how much competition between the private bus companies there was in the tendering process, which in turn would determine how much of a profit margin they would build into their bids.

Given that we also designed our proposed network to integrate with rail as far as possible, it would be interesting to see what impact the overall package, fare-free, would have if implemented.

You would of course have to factor in that 2 and a half years have passed since I made that estimate, and that using more modern lower emission and/or electric buses might bump that up a bit, but that would in turn be balanced by fare revenue, and I have to say I would be genuinely shocked if we got anywhere near the figures you have quoted.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: ChrisB on March 15, 2021, 17:32:02
The whole strategy can be found here (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/bus-back-better)

Quote
Alongside the strategy, we have launched a consultation (https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/ending-the-sale-of-new-diesel-buses) on when to end the sale of new diesel buses to drive forward the decarbonisation of public transport.

The Department for Transport is also awarding English local authorities funding for 17 successful proposals (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rural-mobility-fund) under the rural mobility fund to trial on-demand bus services in their areas.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: TonyK on March 15, 2021, 19:55:24
I shall try not to get too excited. After all, while it sounds a lot of money, £230 million only buys you a maximum of 3 buses per hour on three routes in a small city, closing down at 7pm.

Blimey, who quoted you that?!! In 2018, I did an exercise that estimated that the annual cost of running the entire proposed North and West Wiltshire Option 24/7 pilot area bus network would cost sonewhere between £9.5 million and £10.5 million per annum, and that was if you made it fare-free!


Bristol MetroBust.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: Lee on March 15, 2021, 20:45:46
I shall try not to get too excited. After all, while it sounds a lot of money, £230 million only buys you a maximum of 3 buses per hour on three routes in a small city, closing down at 7pm.

Blimey, who quoted you that?!! In 2018, I did an exercise that estimated that the annual cost of running the entire proposed North and West Wiltshire Option 24/7 pilot area bus network would cost sonewhere between £9.5 million and £10.5 million per annum, and that was if you made it fare-free!


Bristol MetroBust.

Aha, I see what you did there - Say no more  ;D I think its fair to say we wouldnt be looking to emulate that model.

Ive checked back to see what we looked at being required subsidy-wise per annum for our full Wiltshire-wide Option 24/7 proposal with fares being charged:

COMMERCIAL GROUP SUBSIDY REQUIREMENT - £0

COMMERCIAL + DESIGNATED GROUP SUBSIDY REQUIREMENT - £0

EXPLORER GROUP SUBSIDY REQUIREMENT - £860349.07

SUBSIDISED GROUP SUBSIDY REQUIREMENT - £1640174.68

COMMUNITY BUS POT - £76248.92

GRAND TOTAL SUBSIDY REQUIREMENT - £2576772.67

Over the several meetings we had with Wiltshire Council regarding this proposal, while we did have a number of differences in terms of overall approach, the credibility of our figures was never seriously challenged, largely because we based them on Wiltshire Council's own figures, which to be fair to them, we were given unprecedented access to.

That was 2015/2016, and as I hinted before, you would to factor the passage of time and the possible need for newer, greener vehicles into a 2021 estimate, but I personally would be surprised if we didnt still come in some way under £5 million per annum.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: grahame on March 15, 2021, 21:39:54
Aha, I see what you did there - Say no more  ;D I think its fair to say we wouldnt be looking to emulate that model.

Indeed - just as you need to take the right clothes on the right holiday, you need the right bus solution for the right localities.  You wouldn't go in a ski gear to Butlins, or swimming trunks to Aonach Moor.   And your trunks are likely to be far less costly by an order of magnitude than your ski gear unless you go over-designer on them.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: grahame on March 16, 2021, 08:32:56
Thank you to our 'research branch' for the following

Summary of what LTAs and  bus  operators  must do to access COVID-19 Bus Services Support Grant from 1 July 2021 and transformational funding from April 2022

•  By the end of June 2021  LTAs will need to commit to establishing Enhanced Partnerships under the Bus Services Act or the LTA should begin the statutory process of franchising services. Operators in those areas should cooperate with those processes.   Those LTAs who do not have access to franchising powers at present, but consider that it is the best route to adopt in the interest of passengers and that they have the capability and resources to deliver it, should progress with  the  implementation  of  an  Enhanced Partnership  alongside  applying  to the Secretary of State for access to franchising  powers.

•  By the end of October 2021  each LTA will need to publish a local Bus Service Improvement Plan. Each plan will need to be updated annually and reflected in the authority’s Local Transport Plan and in other relevant local plans such as Local Cycling and Walking Infrastructure Plans  (LCWIPs)

•  From April 2022, LTAs will need to have an Enhanced Partnership in place, or be following the statutory process to decide whether to implement a franchising scheme, to access the new discretionary  streams  of  bus  funding. Only services operated or measures taken under an Enhanced Partnership or where a franchising scheme has been made will be eligible to receive the new funding  streams.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: grahame on March 17, 2021, 08:07:58
Feedback from Lancashire (https://lancsbus.blogspot.com/2021/03/national-bus-strategy-sets-out-major.html) - Lancaster District Bus Users' Group

They start with the "why change?":

Quote
End of the Commercial Model

The government's announcement includes the statement that: "the fragmented, fully commercialised market, which has operated outside London since 1986 will end."  This system, introduced incidentally by a previous Conservative administration, is now admitted to have the following problems:
* Services are less frequent than they should be, especially in rural areas
* Evening and Sunday buses have disappeared from many routes
* Fares are too high and tickets bought from one bus company can't be used on another company's buses, even on the same route.
* Bus companies act independently and compete with each other rather than co-operating where this would be in the public interest.
* Bus services are too complicated and information is fragmented and too difficult to come by to attract new passengers.

In fairness to bus companies many of these problems have been caused by legislation ...

My bolding of that final sentence.  It is CRITICAL that we partner with the expert running the base at the moment. We want to do better and do not throw out or ignore their massive experience and expertise. 

How will we move on?

Quote
Enter Partnerships

The government now wants to see bus operators enter into "Enhanced Partnerships" with local councils to bring about the changes it wants to see. Enhanced Partnerships were set up under the Bus Services Act 2017. Operators and councils get together to develop plans to improve bus services with each side committing to measures such as improved frequencies, better buses, bus priority schemes and better publicity.

Perhaps because they require  legally-enforceable commitments, the take-up of Partnership schemes has been low so far, but crucially the emergency funding known as Covid Bus Service Support Grant (CBSSG) under which bus operators receive £1 per kilometre operated to compensate for the huge fall in ridership currently experienced, will only be paid if such Partnerships are in place. Any future government funding will also be dependent on partnership working.

And what are the aims?

Quote
The Strategy aims to replicate the benefits that have been seen in London, where de-regulation and competition never applied. It wants to see:
* Turn up and go" services on main urban routes, on which buses will be so frequent that passengers won't need to consult a timetable
* Better frequencies on quieter and rural routes
* Improved evening and Sunday buses, perhaps by the use of Demand-Responsive services.
* More bus lanes and bus priority schemes
* Lower fares, with simple flat fares in urban areas and price caps which limit the cost of travel over a day or a week however many journeys are made.
* Multi-operator ticketing whereby tickets bought from one bus company are accepted on another company's buses in the same area.
* Bus stops should be improved to make them more attractive to potential passengers and there is an expectation that bus stations should be protected from closure and redevelopment.
* Better publicity with operators obliged to include other operators' journeys in their timetables and all passengers to have access to maps that show all bus routes in a particular area.
* Most improvements in publicity will be delivered digitally via websites and apps although it is recognised that there is still a place for "hard copy" paper-based information. (Stagecoach please note!)
* A review of accessibility regulations for buses that will look at the potential for increasing the amount of space for wheelchairs and will clarify the legal position on use of the wheelchair space by passengers.

The article carries on - section headlines
** Bus Passes
** When will this happen?
** Will it be enough?




Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: Lee on March 17, 2021, 08:35:59
Not in the article but worth noting, particularly in the context of this forum, is that buses will need to serve railway stations, bus stops will need to be as close to the station entrance as possible, and proposals and schemes that move bus services away from railway stations will no longer be allowed.

Also, in the article right at the very end and absolutely key to the Option 24/7 approach:

Quote
The Guidance on implementing Enhanced Partnerships requires the council to "involve" the public and representatives of passenger groups in the preparation of the Bus Improvement Plans.  Lancashire knows where we are and we look forward to hearing from them!

Its actually rather stronger than that - Bus Service Improvement Plans will need to explain exactly how passengers, the local community and their representatives have been involved in formulating all aspects of the plan, including network design, in order for the plan to be considered valid.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: CyclingSid on March 22, 2021, 06:50:19
And another view of the subject from the CPRE (Council for the Preservation of Rural England):
https://www.cpre.org.uk/news/our-report-shows-a-bus-every-village-every-hour-is-possible/ (https://www.cpre.org.uk/news/our-report-shows-a-bus-every-village-every-hour-is-possible/)

A Swiss-style service for five-times the money.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: grahame on March 22, 2021, 07:00:46
And another view of the subject from the CPRE (Council for the Preservation of Rural England):
https://www.cpre.org.uk/news/our-report-shows-a-bus-every-village-every-hour-is-possible/ (https://www.cpre.org.uk/news/our-report-shows-a-bus-every-village-every-hour-is-possible/)

A Swiss-style service for five-times the money.

But yet ... if you increase the passenger numbers five-fold too, your income is also five times.    Simplistic comment but I note that a three times increase in bus passengers is planned in the BaNES consultation as an example - that's from pre-Covid levels, so this may be more practical than you think.   I note that a four fold increase in trains calling at my local station brought a 25 fold increase in journeys.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: TonyK on March 22, 2021, 07:52:35
Not in the article but worth noting, particularly in the context of this forum, is that buses will need to serve railway stations, bus stops will need to be as close to the station entrance as possible, and proposals and schemes that move bus services away from railway stations will no longer be allowed.

So not like Bristol MetroBust, then.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: Lee on March 22, 2021, 08:08:10
Not in the article but worth noting, particularly in the context of this forum, is that buses will need to serve railway stations, bus stops will need to be as close to the station entrance as possible, and proposals and schemes that move bus services away from railway stations will no longer be allowed.

So not like Bristol MetroBust, then.

As I said earlier in the topic, there are aspects of some models that we may seek to emulate, others perhaps not so much...


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: rogerw on March 22, 2021, 14:19:28
Following on from the CPRE report I wonder how many bus services would equate to the cost of the Stonehenge proposals


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: grahame on March 22, 2021, 14:25:04
Following on from the CPRE report I wonder how many bus services would equate to the cost of the Stonehenge proposals

Around 30 to 45 extra buses (very rough calculation) per English constituency for a year.   You are in danger of comparing capital cost with ongoing revenue cost, though.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: TonyK on March 22, 2021, 14:48:03
Not in the article but worth noting, particularly in the context of this forum, is that buses will need to serve railway stations, bus stops will need to be as close to the station entrance as possible, and proposals and schemes that move bus services away from railway stations will no longer be allowed.

So not like Bristol MetroBust, then.

As I said earlier in the topic, there are aspects of some models that we may seek to emulate, others perhaps not so much...

The emphasis should therefore be on easing the flow of buses into and out of a transport hub adjacent to major railway stations. MetroBust sacrificed this to keep the bus moving more freely along Temple Way in Bristol.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: Lee on March 22, 2021, 14:53:07
I am going to leave aside the CPRE proposals for the moment, which are certainly ambitious, and by their own admission are based on redirecting a funding stream that the government are going to take a lot of persuading to release.

What I will say is that in our original Option 24/7 proposals, we combined 18 existing rural bus services, some of them with very sparse frequencies, into 8 attractive regular pattern "Explorer" routes with matching Community Rail-style promotion. We estimated that the cost of providing these services would be around £860k per annum - from within the existing council subsidy budget - and this tallied with Wiltshire Council's own figures during our negotiations with them, so we know that our plans and figures were credible.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: Surrey 455 on March 22, 2021, 19:51:10
But yet ... if you increase the passenger numbers five-fold too, your income is also five times.    Simplistic comment but I note that a three times increase in bus passengers is planned in the BaNES consultation as an example - that's from pre-Covid levels, so this may be more practical than you think.   I note that a four fold increase in trains calling at my local station brought a 25 fold increase in journeys.

But what if those extra passengers are using council bus passes? Is there still a five-fold increase in income?


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: grahame on March 22, 2021, 19:59:27
But yet ... if you increase the passenger numbers five-fold too, your income is also five times.    Simplistic comment but I note that a three times increase in bus passengers is planned in the BaNES consultation as an example - that's from pre-Covid levels, so this may be more practical than you think.   I note that a four fold increase in trains calling at my local station brought a 25 fold increase in journeys.

But what if those extra passengers are using council bus passes? Is there still a five-fold increase in income?

If the extra passengers are in proportion, a five fold increase will be a five fold increase in income, as both normal fares and pathetic ENCTS ones will increase in like.  But at a guess, there is already higher market penetration by seniors than by others, so concessionary fares will increase less than others and you'll do better.   In other words, pensioners already use the bus - it's attractive for them in price anyway, and they have plenty of time.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: TonyK on March 23, 2021, 10:45:31
But yet ... if you increase the passenger numbers five-fold too, your income is also five times.    Simplistic comment but I note that a three times increase in bus passengers is planned in the BaNES consultation as an example - that's from pre-Covid levels, so this may be more practical than you think.   I note that a four fold increase in trains calling at my local station brought a 25 fold increase in journeys.

But what if those extra passengers are using council bus passes? Is there still a five-fold increase in income?

If the extra passengers are in proportion, a five fold increase will be a five fold increase in income, as both normal fares and pathetic ENCTS ones will increase in like.  But at a guess, there is already higher market penetration by seniors than by others, so concessionary fares will increase less than others and you'll do better.   In other words, pensioners already use the bus - it's attractive for them in price anyway, and they have plenty of time.

I thought part of the problem bus operators were facing was the reduction in the amounts paid for concessionary passengers. As there are seldom any paying passengers on buses from the village I have just left, I can't see there being much of an increase in income.


Title: Re: Latest new bus improvement plans.
Post by: grahame on March 23, 2021, 13:27:12
I thought part of the problem bus operators were facing was the reduction in the amounts paid for concessionary passengers. As there are seldom any paying passengers on buses from the village I have just left, I can't see there being much of an increase in income.

Reduction of payment for concessionary passengers - councils squeezing to get it as low as they can - has been a a problem. But that's not what I was talking about / commenting on.

Let's say than buses from Greenstocks to Bissbridge carry 100 passengers a day at present - 90 on concessionary passes (£1)  and 10 at full fare (£5). So that's an income of £140 pounds.

It's my contention that the concessionary pass people already use the bus - that market is pretty well covered and saturated - and a much better service won't add much to those numbers - rather, it will add to the numbers who do have an element of choice.  Let's say that doubling the service as part of a tuning to fit the younger (none-retired) market brings in just 10 more ENCTS holders, plus a further 40 at full fare as that is a market ripe for transfer to bus.   Passenger numbers up 50%, vehicle runs up 100% (so quieter buses) but income up from £140 to £350 - that's a 150% increase.



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net