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Journey by Journey => London to the Cotswolds => Topic started by: Richard Fairhurst on February 13, 2016, 10:30:26



Title: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on February 13, 2016, 10:30:26
From the Witney Gazette (http://www.witneygazette.co.uk/news/wgheadlines/witney/14274245.Proposals_revealed_for___275m_development_to_create_a____world_class____railway_link/?ref=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter):

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HANBOROUGH station could be connected to Oxford by three trains every hour if a masterplan for the future development of the Cotswold Line rail route between Oxford and Worcester becomes a reality.

The plan also calls for two trains per hour linking Worcester with London, one of which would be an express serving only the busiest intermediate stations.

Revealing the proposals for a ^275m investment in further improvements to the line between 2019 and 2024, at a launch event in Witney yesterday, train operator Great Western Railway^s managing director, Mark Hopwood, said: ^We want to be bold ^ world-class counties like Oxfordshire, Worcestershire and Gloucestershire need a world-class railway.^

He said investment in the line would help to drive economic development in the communities it serves and help to meet growing demand all along the route. He said that a 100-space car park extension opened at Kingham station last September was already 80 per cent full on weekdays.

To operate three trains an hour to Hanborough would require reinstatement of more double track on the line, between North Oxford and Long Hanborough, and the reopening of two disused platforms at Hanborough station. The direct journey time between Hanborough and London would be about an hour if the plans come to fruition.

Delegates at the event, held at Witney Lakes Resort, which brought together representatives of the rail industry with councils and businesses along the line between Oxford, Worcester and Hereford, were addressed by Prime Minister andWitney MP David Cameron.

He told them: ^If you want to get rail investment, you need to have confidence, you need to have ambition and you need a compelling case and I think the three things you need are coming together here.^

He added: ^I am utterly convinced of the necessity of investing in this line. I will do everything I can to give this vision a boost.^

As well as running more trains, Mr Hopwood said it was also important to ensure that there was good access to stations, including more car parking but also providing reliable, integrated bus links.

He said: ^Many people use cars to get to stations, but we can^t go on building car parks forever. so if we can find better ways of getting people to our stations, that would be a good thing.^

He said GWR also supported the proposal to run passenger trains on the currently freight-only branch line to Cowley to help tackle congestion in and around Oxford.

Rodney Rose, deputy leader of Oxfordshire County Council, whose division includes five Cotswold Line stations, said: ^I feel the key to growth in West Oxfordshire is rail and that will also stop us covering this lovely district in tarmac.^

(Good to see former Coffee Shopper willc still writing rail stories for the Oxford Newsquest papers!)


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: TonyK on February 13, 2016, 14:38:34
Having the local MP behind you is always a good thing, but in this case it may even make a difference! Although I wasn't aware that CP6 had been decided upon as yet, and I thought this upgrade had been ruled out last year.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: paul7575 on February 13, 2016, 15:01:05
... Although I wasn't aware that CP6 had been decided upon as yet, and I thought this upgrade had been ruled out last year.

It won't be firmed up for a while, but looking back the enhancement proposals for CP5 were publicly available in Sept 2011's "Initial Industry Plan" - so I expect the ORR's milestones for getting stuff into the CP6 plans do start about now to fit the same 5 year cycle.

The DfT will want to publish the HLOS/SofA in the middle of 2017 or so.

Paul


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 13, 2016, 17:48:45
Though CP6 will be mostly stuff that was originally planned to be finished in CP5! :-\


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: ellendune on February 13, 2016, 18:55:58
Might get a commitment to do the planning and design in CP6


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: Puffing Billy on February 13, 2016, 19:39:12
Rather than to Hanborough, has any consideration been given to extending double-track as far as a rebuilt Yarnton Junction, alias A40 Parkway (with potential future extension towards Witney)?


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: ellendune on February 13, 2016, 20:13:55
Rather than to Hanborough, has any consideration been given to extending double-track as far as a rebuilt Yarnton Junction, alias A40 Parkway (with potential future extension towards Witney)?

Doesn't really do anything for Worcester & Hereford or the North Cotswolds.  I think Witney would be a separate case altogether.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: Puffing Billy on February 13, 2016, 20:56:30
Doesn't really do anything for Worcester & Hereford or the North Cotswolds.  I think Witney would be a separate case altogether.
Agreed. But would anything short of redoubling the whole stretch to Charlbury make a significant difference to that area? Just suggesting that if the idea is to extend double track in stages, then Yarnton would be a start; it would at least allow trains to clear Wolvercote Junction. And if a case is subsequently made for a new station, it could take the pressure off the local roads around Hanborough.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: ChrisB on February 13, 2016, 21:34:46
The last thing the Cotswold Line is *anotger* station at the eastern end. Journey times are pitifully slow already - they need speeding up


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: TonyK on February 13, 2016, 21:55:40
Doesn't really do anything for Worcester & Hereford or the North Cotswolds.  I think Witney would be a separate case altogether.

I reckon Witney is about as impossible as you can get for reinstatement, even with Dave singing the praises. The route wasn't protected when the rails were lifted, and there are roads, industrial estates, an expanded bit of RAF Brize Norton, and houses in the way now. An alternative route would cost far too much according to the bean counters. To put the final kiss of doom on it, there are plans for a bust rabid transit scheme to link the town to the railway.

Which is a shame. The whole area - including Carterton and Brize Norton as well as Witney - is on the up and up. RAF Brize Norton took over the four Hercules squadrons when RAF Lyneham closed, and now also houses the Voyager, C17 Globemaster, and A400M aircraft, with their many personnel. It is the kick-off point for many a VIP heading for foreign climes. There are many ground-based desk jobs there, both civvie and military. My daughter, the former Miss FT,N!, in the press office has minded Gary Barlow, Ed Sheeran, the Princess Royal, Dave, and that Hollande homme amongst others, all of whom (bar Monsieur President) were on scheduled RAF flights, not freebies. The Oxford, Witney and Fairford line would probably be pretty busy today had it not been closed.

In the photograph, Four Track, Now! ponders the location of the former rail line from the right-hand seat of a Hercules. And yes, I did figure out how to start it. And no, they wouldn't let me.(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/IMG_4570_zps9vml8kx4.jpg)


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: ellendune on February 13, 2016, 22:10:55
I reckon Witney is about as impossible as you can get for reinstatement, even with Dave singing the praises. The route wasn't protected when the rails were lifted, and there are roads, industrial estates, an expanded bit of RAF Brize Norton, and houses in the way now. An alternative route would cost far too much according to the bean counters. To put the final kiss of doom on it, there are plans for a bust rabid transit scheme to link the town to the railway.

Does not alter the conclusions much, but I am sure even the Russian's know that Brize Norton is West of Witney and so any amount of encroachment on that side would not affect reopening  as far as Witney. Or even on to the edge of Brize itself.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: Puffing Billy on February 13, 2016, 22:27:30
I think we can take it as read that the inhabitants of West Oxfordshire are inconsiderate types, who should be taking up their rightful places in cars and buses crawling along the A40, rather than demanding a train service of such extravagance that it adds two minutes to the journeys of those important people from Worcestershire. I think we can also take it as read that Hanborough will continue to function as West Oxfordshire Parkway for the forseeable future. In that case, what can, or should, be done about improving access to it, for the benefit of both travellers and residents? Does it really need three trains per hour? Are there plans to eventually redouble the whole of the remaining single-track section? In which case, surely the whole line will be able to support 3 trains per hour (perhaps 2 passenger and 1 freight path), and the modifications which appear to be proposed in this report to provide turnround facilities at Hanborough will have been a waste of money. Leaving aside possible new routes (and note I carefully said *towards* Witney), the only strategies which make sense to me are either to redouble to *somewhere* between Wolvercote and (possibly just short of) Hanborough, or to redouble the lot. The plan as expressed in the report seems to be an incoherent jumble which is going to please nobody.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: TonyK on February 13, 2016, 23:03:38
Does not alter the conclusions much, but I am sure even the Russian's know that Brize Norton is West of Witney and so any amount of encroachment on that side would not affect reopening  as far as Witney. Or even on to the edge of Brize itself.

Brize Norton is indeed west (and south) of Witney. The original railway was built over during an extension of Brize Norton towards the south. Each individual encroachment would not be an issue, but all added together they form a formidable block. You won't find many people more in favour of reinstating rail than I am (actually, on this forum I reckon you will) but I think Witney will not happen.

Hanborough etc might. I find it more than a little frustrating that "singlings" of double tracked lines were by no means down to Dr Beeching, but often took place in the 1980s to save on repair bills that were a fraction of the real-time cost now to reinstate the lines. We do need to spend money piece by piece, but as we saw big projects put back from CP5 to CP6, can we wonder if they will happen?



Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 13, 2016, 23:14:59
If I was a railway betting man, I would put money, by the end of CP7,that the line will be redoubled to Hanborough, which will have a turnback facility, but there will be resistance to do the section on to Charlbury because of the cost of modifying/closing Combe and Finstock.

I would also consider an each way bet on Oxford to Hanborough being electrified (with most OXF-PAD Class 387s starting from there) to really make my money!


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: John R on February 14, 2016, 11:44:25
If I was a railway betting man, I would put money, by the end of CP7,that the line will be redoubled to Hanborough, which will have a turnback facility, but there will be resistance to do the section on to Charlbury because of the cost of modifying/closing Combe and Finstock.

I would also consider an each way bet on Oxford to Hanborough being electrified (with most OXF-PAD Class 387s starting from there) to really make my money!

That would be my thinking too. With 387s providing the service (maybe every 30 mins) there would be less need for the longer distance services to call there. (I'm guessing there is much less traffic to/from Hanborough from the west.)  It could also have the added benefit of reducing congestion at Oxford if services don't turn around there.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: TonyK on February 14, 2016, 13:12:52
If I was a railway betting man, I would put money, by the end of CP7,that the line will be redoubled to Hanborough, which will have a turnback facility, but there will be resistance to do the section on to Charlbury because of the cost of modifying/closing Combe and Finstock.

I would also consider an each way bet on Oxford to Hanborough being electrified (with most OXF-PAD Class 387s starting from there) to really make my money!

I would take a punt on redoubling and extra platforms by close of CP6, with electrification by CP7 at longer odds.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: ChrisB on February 14, 2016, 20:30:59
That would be my bet too. Also, the 387s will inly be two/hour if there's no Cotswold Libe train in tgat hour, where it would form one if those two tph (trains per hour)

The proposal is for hourly Cotswolds, this likely only the one 387 would be turning back at Hanborough. There may well be also a 387 shuttle should/when Hanborough becomes West Oxon Parkway.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: John R on February 14, 2016, 21:28:38
What about the 2ph stopping services from Oxford to Paddington?  Would these not be possible candidates to extend to Hanborough?


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 14, 2016, 22:56:41
What about the 2ph stopping services from Oxford to Paddington?  Would these not be possible candidates to extend to Hanborough?

Not quite sure they'll be running in their current form by the time Hanborough might have been double-tracked.  After all the East-West Rail Link has eyes on taking over the stopping trains between Oxford and Reading.  Lots of twists and turns could happen before (if) these suggestions happen.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: grahame on February 14, 2016, 23:06:04
Don't know what will be running by the time (and if) it comes, but wouldn't it be more logical to extend something fast that comes up from Didcot to Oxford and terminates there, rather than a stopper?  Logic being that a fast train makes Hanborough a good park and ride without change makes it attractive for parking for Reading and London ... if you extend a stopper you're looking more at the Hanborough to Culham and to Pangbourne markets, which probably are much more limited.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: TonyK on February 14, 2016, 23:33:05
In the lap of the Gods, this one. (I'm a Christian, so the theology of that statement is a not entirely kosher).


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on February 21, 2016, 14:29:01
I reckon Witney is about as impossible as you can get for reinstatement, even with Dave singing the praises. The route wasn't protected when the rails were lifted, and there are roads, industrial estates, an expanded bit of RAF Brize Norton, and houses in the way now. An alternative route would cost far too much according to the bean counters. To put the final kiss of doom on it, there are plans for a bust rabid transit scheme to link the town to the railway.

I looked into this a couple of years ago, and know the area pretty well - not least because Mrs F works in Brize Norton (the village, not the airbase). I concluded Oxford to Witney is eminently reinstateable (is that a word...?), assuming that you stay south of the A40 in Witney.

The biggest obstacle on the old trackbed is the Eynsham southern bypass road, but there is just enough space to thread a railway north of that without encroaching on the site of Eynsham Abbey. A few reinstated bridges and you're at the Four Pillars/Ducklington area of Witney - walkable/bikeable from the town centre, and with plenty of space for a parkway station.

From there, continuing to Carterton on the old trackbed is much more difficult because RAF Brize Norton is in the way. If you were determined to get to Carterton, a whole new northern alignment would probably be required, and even then you'd only reach the edge of town. But I suspect the BCR for Witney would stack up on its own without having to go any further.

I wouldn't be too optimistic about the BRT scheme... Oxfordshire County Council have been blowing hot and cold on that for 25 years now and there's still no sign of it actually happening.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: Puffing Billy on February 21, 2016, 20:54:17
I agree with Richard that if the Eynsham problem can be cracked, then the continuation to a station somewhere in Witney will be unstoppable. To get back to how this affects the Cotswold Line, it seems to me that the proposals aired so far are quite incoherent in the absence of any obvious plan about how travellers (for most intents and purposes, drivers) get to Hanborough. The assertion that there is little likelihood of doubling through to Charlbury I also find confusing. In that case, why not stop the double-track just short of Hanborough, and you can make do with the one existing platform instead of the proposed three? Or looking at it another way, if West Oxfordshire "park and ride" traffic is viewed as separate from Cotswold traffic, why not keep the single line as it is, and make the second track an independent single line. If this fed into the new north Oxford down loop, which could be made reversible, then you could avoid conflicts with both Cotswold and Cherwell line traffic. Going back a few posts, this single line could stop at Yarnton instead of Hanborough, which already has convenient access to the A40 - I cannot see how a one-platform station and car park would cost any more than the proposed Hanborough modifications, and a Witney extension, whether you think it likely or not, is still a future option.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: ChrisB on February 22, 2016, 09:44:21
The assertion that there is little likelihood of doubling through to Charlbury I also find confusing.

Not confusing at all. It would mean an extra platform & associated connection at each halt (Coombe & Finstock) - for the numbers using them, it frankly would make more sense closing at least Combe.... too expensive, and unnecessary to wextend to Charlbury to achieve the two trains/hour.

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In that case, why not stop the double-track just short of Hanborough, and you can make do with the one existing platform instead of the proposed three?

Well, it's actually just one double-facing island platform that is already there & redundant. It would need taking down to the foundations & rebuilding though. Needed for turnback of the third terminator.


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....and make the second track an independent single line. If this fed into the new north Oxford down loop, which could be made reversible, then you could avoid conflicts with both Cotswold and Cherwell line traffic.

What happens when that reaches the outskirts of Oxford on the down?....anyway, if you're putting the second line in, why bother keeping it separate? Save very little money.

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Going back a few posts, this single line could stop at Yarnton instead of Hanborough, which already has convenient access to the A40

The twin line is needed for two trains/hour service.....


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: Witham Bobby on February 22, 2016, 10:35:01
Surely the question of servicing the single platforms at Coombe and Finstock could be part answered with a signalling solution?  Make the line that serves the platforms bi-directional, and you'd only need a re-instated platform at one of the halts.  It is possibly not the most operationally convenient solution.  It would be easier if both existing platforms were on the same side of the line, in which case no new platform would be needed.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: ChrisB on February 22, 2016, 10:37:00
I think they're looking to *simplify* operations....


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 22, 2016, 10:47:57
Also you'd still need to rebuild the current platform at Finstock as it lies on the formation where the second track would go.  Either that or the road bridge by the station would need replacing and the embankment widening.


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: Witham Bobby on February 22, 2016, 14:10:31
Also you'd still need to rebuild the current platform at Finstock as it lies on the formation where the second track would go.  Either that or the road bridge by the station would need replacing and the embankment widening.
It used to be double track along here, until BR vandalized in in 1973.  Why would bridge, embankment or platform need altering now?

I should add that although I occasionally travel along here, I can't say that I've taken much notice of the present situation with regard to these halts.  So I may be completely mis-remembering that the single platforms at Coombe and Finstock are presently the former Up (Coombe) and Down (Finstock) platforms from pre 1973


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 22, 2016, 16:21:50
It used to be double track along here, until BR vandalized in in 1973.  Why would bridge, embankment or platform need altering now?

I should add that although I occasionally travel along here, I can't say that I've taken much notice of the present situation with regard to these halts.  So I may be completely mis-remembering that the single platforms at Coombe and Finstock are presently the former Up (Coombe) and Down (Finstock) platforms from pre 1973

The platform at Finstock was rebuilt, presumably to allow for the 100mph higher linespeed when the line was singled, so the current platform juts out quite a bit and would need cutting back/rebuilding if the line were to be redoubled.  You can see what I mean from this screen shot taken from the cab of my Cotswold Line redoubling video:



Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: Noggin on February 23, 2016, 12:35:56
Having the local MP behind you is always a good thing, but in this case it may even make a difference! Although I wasn't aware that CP6 had been decided upon as yet, and I thought this upgrade had been ruled out last year.

Indeed, would make a very nice political legacy for Cameron, even if he couldn't wangle reopening to Witney. I should imagine there could be a knighthood in it for Mr Hopwood too!


Title: Re: Proposals revealed for ^275m development on "world class" Cotswold Line
Post by: ChrisB on February 23, 2016, 12:54:25
CP6 hasn't gone through it's pre-HLOS yet, but I'm sure there's a growing list somewhere.



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