Great Western Coffee Shop

I've struggled to find somewhere to put this and here seems good enough

Whilst driving between Wycombe and Princes Risborough about 11am today I saw a FGW HST  train.. Now I know there is the odd one timetabled but, looking at next Friday's timetable for example, it's hard (without knowing exactly where it is stopping along the way or where it is from), to know what it was..Any ideas?

They won't be in next Friday's timetable (or any normal timetable) as they are only diverted this weekend (from Fri - Mon inclusive) and next Sunday.  The best way of finding the passing times at stations in the area you mention is using the advanced mode of one of the sites such as http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk or http://www.opentraintimes.com

Paul

With the blockade at Reading over the Easter Weekend, and again on Sunday 7th April, all FGW HST services to/from South Wales and Bristol, plus one or two others to/from Weston-super Mare, Taunton and the West, are diverted via Oxford, Banbury, then through High Wycombe, West Ruislip, Greenford and Park Royal, rejoining the GWML at Old Oak Common.

Services to/from the West of England are diverted via Salisbury, Basingstoke, Wimbledon and into/out of London Waterloo.

Aah thanks.. I did wonder if it was due to the Reading blockade.. But there is so much information out there, and I don't know how it's easy to change from one trains companies' lines to another.. I just didn't know.. I knew FGW trains were going into Waterloo, but didn't know they were heading into Paddington via a didferent route too..

Still a good unexpected sight  ;D

Much of the line from London to Bicester was built as a joint line between The Great Western Railway (into Paddington) and the Great Central Railway (Into Marylebone and which went on up to Rugby, Nottingham and Sheffield). The Great Western Route comes into Paddington through Greenford and Joins the Bristol Line near Old Oak Common.  It was a main route from London to Birmingham (Snow Hill).

When the Euston to Birmingham line was electrified in the 1960's the London to Birmingham express trains ran from Paddington via that route. After electrification was complete the line was run down with only local trains going to Marylebone. I believe the link to Paddington is still used by a nominal Chiltern Service each day to avoid closure. 

This topic was originally posted in our 'frequent posters' area, where only our established members can view it. However, as the original question has been answered, and the answers themselves produced some interesting additional information, I'm now moving the topic here - with the approval of all those 'established members' who have contributed so far.

To add to ellendune summary of the history of the line, the part of the line where you saw the HST is in fact considerably older than teh joint line mentioned being part of the Broad Gauge Maidenhead Bourne End High Wycombe Princes Risborough Aylesbury. Which of coiurse now sadly misses the link from Bourne End to Wycombe which didn't close to the early seventies and wasn't in teh Beeching Plan.

The joint line connecting at both Wycombe and Risborough and using the old alignment.

As a matter of the level of rationalisation that there has been on the line a count from my GWR Altlas shows 11 potential passing loops mostly at stations between Old Oak Common and Anyho Junction 1947. Now there's about 3 and not all are 4 track, but at least it's been re-doubled otherwise there would have been no room for diverted HSTs.

Its to keep drivers route knowledge up to scratch should they need to divert to Paddington when Marylebone is closed

I tried to find this service but could not.  Anyone know what it is?  Is there a service both ways?

11.02 South Ruislip to London Paddington (arriving at 11.32).. and looks like it heads back again at 11.36

...and then out again at 11:36 to West Ruislip, calling at South Ruislip on the way.

Sorry Bobm... Just added that to my original reply as you were writing yours... Just in case anyone thinks it's you that can't read  ;D

Just a case of great minds thinking alike.... ;D

Changed a bit since last May. Used to be Gerrard's Cross to Paddington and return, with no intermediate stops. Might have to do this one again now that the start/end is in Ruislip. Can now be done on Oyster and far easier to get back into London on the Underground.

On arrival at West Ruislip the unit runs ECS to Marylebone and then goes on to form part of the regular Chiltern service to/from Gerrard's Cross.

Thanks everyone.  I know now why i could not find it.  I was putting GW only into the search criteria.   :-[   ;D 

Of course  ;D ;D

We'll make a train crank out of you yet, Jo ;)

;D

Has it all been redoubled? Satellite view on Google maps (which may not be up to date) still shows the track from Old Oak Common as single.

That is correct, The double track only starts where the line from Marylebone joins at Northolt.

According to my rail atlas it's single track from Old Oak Common to Park Royal Branch Junction, then double track until Greenford West Junction and back to single track until Northolt Junction where the line from Marylebone joins by way of a flying junction.

A few problems on the early services from Paddington via Banbury.  The first two are getting on for half an hour late into Oxford.

Also a delay on a Coltswold line service at Oxford.

Your atlas is accurate from what I observed travelling over it last week.

Btw, it appears thevline closed early? Last night...Chiltern despatch staff at Banbury, nor the signaller in banbury south box, knew nowt about the diverted HSTs last night....enquiries hastily made when they heard third hand they were starting last night & not today.

Comms failure at Network Rail between divisions I reckon

Do you mean closed 'earlier than planned' and catching people out?   I don't see it that way.

The last up trains from Penzance and Taunton were in the timetable via Oxford and the Chilterns, I expect a lot of people possibly missed the detail in FGW's diversion info, but as far as I can glean this phase was always starting late Saturday rather than at midnight.

For example:

"Thursday 28 March 2345 ^ Tuesday 2 April 0400 and Saturday 6 April 2300 ^ Monday 8 April 0330"

"No trains between Didcot Parkway and Maidenhead (6 April 2300 to 8 April 0330)"

The London to South Wales online timetable (which includes the Penzance service as well from Taunton) for the period also shows the relevant diverted timings on the Saturday 6th page.

Paul

Out of interest the junction arrangement at Northolt was altered fairly significantly as part of the Evergreen 3 speed improvement works and it's possible it may not have made it into your atlas, depending when it was printed. 

The down main line from Marylebone used to go under the line from Paddington/Greenford and then through the down platform at South Ruislip.  The Paddington single line was the old up line towards Paddington, and therefore joined the Chiltern route via the up platform at South Ruislip. 

The current situation is that the new down main from Marylebone now runs in a pair of tracks with the up line, and the old main line round the south west side of the waste transfer station has been reduced in status to a down platform loop.  The Paddington line has also been slewed to it's left (looking north) and joins this loop and also goes through the down platform, which is why the Chiltern route learner can now call at South Ruislip in both directions (if they wish).

Paul

The diversions were definiteky in public TTs, it seems that staff notices to those in the Birmingham Network Rail area hadn't been advised.

They may not have been the only ones not to know. I understand there was engineering work booked for the Banbury South area until 9am today, but the first HST was due through at 8am.

Caught the Chiltern ghost train this morning.

I ran from my incoming HST at Paddington as I thought the Chiltern service to West Ruislip departed at 1126. My service was 8 minutes late, and I thought I only had 2 minutes to get from P2 to P14. Ran like the clappers only to discover the departure time for the Chiltern service was 1136, not 1126. D'oh.  ::)

Just myself and one fellow enthusiast on board. Two drivers and two guards, so we were outnumbered by the staff!

Now in West London deciding how to get across to the East End...

Passengers are a rarity on the Paddington turn, especially since it was cut back to South Ruilsip. A picture of it on 2nd May, the last time I drove it (zero passengers on up working, three on down working):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8702784912/

Thanks for that RPM.. And welcome to the Forum  :)

What units are they using 165s or one of the 172s? It's a few years since I travelled on it and even then when I think it went through to Aylesbury via Pricnces Risborough I was outnumbered by staff.

165s...

I wonder if the service were offered in one (or both) of the peaks, if it would actually be used by passengers?

I'm assuming the "down" service is more popular as enthusiasts (let's face it, they are probably the only ones using this service) are likely to come from Central London (having travelled there from elsewhere) than from Ruislip.

But presumably the stock is needed for the Marylebone service in the peak hour. One sole departure from Paddington would be pointless in the peak - miss it by 30 seconds and then you have to go back to Marylebone. Also there may be insufficient platform space at Paddington in the peak.

The Chiltern Paddington Parly serves two purposes.

One is to retain diversionary route knowledge for Chiltern drivers and guards and the other is to hold off the necessary legal processes that would have to be started if there was a cessation of passengers services over the line between Old Oak Common and Northolt Junction. One of those processes would be a public inquiry. Its not just station closures that require proper legal process. Sections of line are also covered by the same legal requirements if their passenger service is to be removed.

Easier all round to have a token service rather than formally close the line to passenger services.

That said, sometimes the DfT do fupp up, as was the case with the line between Acton East Junction and Mitre Bridge Junction in West London. When CrossCountry services to/from Brighton were withdrawn, this section of line lost its passenger service, but there was no statutory public inquiry. The crude fix for this error by the DfT was a once a week, in one direction only, rail replacement bus between two stations (Ealing Broadway and Kensington Olympia) that were approximate to the rail route that had lost its passenger service.

Plans to resume a rail service over this section of line have not come to fruition. This despite it being written into the tender for the South Central franchise starting in September 2009. The franchise winner, Southern Railway have been given a derogation permitting them not to provide a rail service over this section of line due to logistical and rolling stock issues. Thus the DfT funded bus service continues although formal withdrawal of the passenger service over this section of line is currently in process. I believe (although I'm open to correction) that this is still to be ratified. The other section of line affected by the withdrawal of the CrossCountry services to/from Brighton - Latchmere No 1 Junction - Latchmere No 3 Junction - to the east of Clapham Junction, has a once daily rail service in each direction, provided by Southern, between Wandsworth Road and Kensington Olympia stations.

There were moves to withdraw the two parliamentary services in West London but it all seems to have gone a bit quiet now. There was a consultation on it I believe.

I was the only passenger on it when I traveled on it back in december the only other people on the train was the driver and the guard

Travelled from Paddington to West Ruislip with Chiltern a few weeks back. Just me and one other passenger. Two drivers, two guards.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/100_1749_zpsab4cfdb1.jpg)