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Title: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Lee on March 13, 2008, 11:27:07 From Severn Tunnel Action Group :
Quote from: STAG SUBJECT- Cardiff to Portsmouth Service at Severn Tunnel Junction Background: There are basically two trains per hour from Cardiff that go through Bristol Temple Meads leaving half an hour apart and this has been the pattern for several years. Historically these have been alternate services along the Bath / Westbury/ Portsmouth route and the other along the Weston Super Mare / Taunton route. Severn Tunnel Junction was served by both services. The December 2006 service saw the proposed total withdrawal of all the Portsmouth services from Severn Tunnel Junction. The Severn Tunnel Action Group (STAG) has been campaigning to re-instate all these services ever since, with partial success. Re-instated Services: The following ten Portsmouth line services now call at Severn Tunnel Junction: - 06:30, 07:30, 16:30, 17:30, 18:30 from Cardiff towards Bristol 05:54, 16:54, 17:54, 21:54, 22:54 from Bristol towards Cardiff Proposed Re-instatement: First Great Western have at present proposed the re-instatement of two more services in the next May timetable, the 08:30 from Cardiff and the 18:54 from Bristol (The 18:35 from Bath). Network Rail have blocked the re-instatement of the 08:30 but accepted the 18:54 Integrated Rail Transport: The Portsmouth services connect in each direction with the Gloucester Line services at Severn Tunnel Junction. The Taunton services do not connect in either direction with the Gloucester line services. Neither the Taunton nor the Portsmouth services connect in either direction at Newport with the Gloucester line service. Except on the occasions of the re-instated services listed above, passengers for east Monmouthshire and the Forest of Dean are forced to wait fifty minutes for the onward rail journey in both directions. Integrated Bus Transport: Monmouth C.C. has for years provided a local Bus Service (No.62) through the main part of the day. This is the only Bus service scheduled to call at the station. The service completes it circular route every one and a half-hours. Prior to the December 2006 Rail cuts the Bus connected alternately with the Taunton and Portsmouth services. Since the cuts alternate busses no longer connect with any rail services at the station. Subject to resolution of an appropriate turning space Monmouth C.C. have developed and are about to introduce a dedicated Rail Link Bus service to cover the morning and evening peak rail services that are not at present covered by the local Service 62 Bus. Effect on Journey times of removing Severn Tunnel Junction stop: The removal of the stop at Severn Tunnel Junction has resulted in no reduction in journey times for the Portsmouth service. The Departure times at Newport and Arrival times at Bristol are the same irrespective of whether the trains call or do not call at Severn Tunnel Junction. The reason is the Portsmouth service leaves Cardiff five minutes after the up London service. It follows this train to Newport where it again leaves five minutes after the London service. As there is a seven-minute headway through the Severn Tunnel, those that do not stop have to 'hang back' to avoid receiving a restrictive aspect on the tunnel approach. Leaving the eastern portal of the tunnel there is a theoretical difference of thirty seconds in the timings of trains that have and have not called at the Junction. In the reverse direction the times vary but on average the journey times of those that do not stop are now three minutes longer than they were in previous years when the trains used to call. Other statistics: In the year after the December 2006 cuts 90% of all journeys from Severn Tunnel Junction are to one of the thirty stations on the direct route between Cardiff and Portsmouth. The withdrawal of the through services has resulted in a reduction of off peak long distance travel from Severn Tunnel Junction to Portsmouth (20%), Fareham (9%) and Salisbury (5%) Support: The re-instatement of the remaining twenty of the thirty odd Portsmouth services has received a total cross party support from Assembly Members and Members of Parliament representing the areas served. The support is based on the wider benefits of Integration that the stopping of the services throughout the day will restore. SEWTA backed the full re-instatement in the formal response to the First Great Western Timetable consultation in August 2007. SEWTA Meeting 2007: Extract of SEWTA Minutes of meeting held on 19th January 2007 2.3.7 DHa asked about the remaining Severn Tunnel Junction services which had not yet been restored. TSt replied that these were being looked at as part of the December 2007 timetable changes. Requirement: To persuade First Great Western to make Severn Tunnel Junction a standard Clockface stop on the Portsmouth services by giving consideration to the wider social economic benefits to users rather than limiting actions on the immediate financial effects to the company of stopping the trains. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: thefab442 on March 13, 2008, 17:00:33 NO NO NO NO NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Not another stop! Shall we start stopping Portsmouth - Cardiff trains at Avoncliff? Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Jim on March 13, 2008, 17:03:21 NO NO NO NO NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not another stop! Shall we start stopping Portsmouth - Cardiff trains at Avoncliff? Take the Filton stop out of them. Personally, I think we should go back to when it was either STJ or FIT..... Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: devon_metro on March 13, 2008, 17:06:45 NO NO NO NO NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not another stop! Shall we start stopping Portsmouth - Cardiff trains at Avoncliff? For one I agree with you but the rail groups would only moan ::) Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: swlines on March 13, 2008, 17:16:59 NO NO NO NO NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not another stop! Shall we start stopping Portsmouth - Cardiff trains at Avoncliff? No, we're going to stop them all at Lawrence Hill, or should we build a special chord between Beaulieu and Romsey and call them all at Beaulieu Road? EDIT to my Lawrence Hill suggestion... They will call at Bristol Temple Meads... all stations down via Clifton Down then over to Bristol Parkway, reverse then to Cardiff. ;D Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Lee on March 13, 2008, 20:13:59 NO NO NO NO NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not another stop! Shall we start stopping Portsmouth - Cardiff trains at Avoncliff? Take the Filton stop out of them. Personally, I think we should go back to when it was either STJ or FIT..... For one I agree with you but the rail groups would only moan ::) Believe it or not, you can actually blame the DfT for the fact that this topic exists. Both STAG and Saltash Rail Users Group were set up in the wake of the December 2006 timetable fiasco. Both groups managed to acheive their objectives (reversal of planned service cuts) by getting stops inserted into services that could be classed as "fast." Having done so, its no surprise that they should want to build on that success. Ironically, had the DfT specified the new franchise service levels along the same lines as the old franchise levels, it is quite possible that neither group would exist today. The London Paddington services probably wouldnt call at Saltash and the Portsmouth-Cardiff stops at STJ would probably be as Jim stated earlier. It is also quite likely that Save The Train (and thus the First Great Western Coffee Shop forum) wouldnt exist either, as Melksham/TransWilts would still have 5 round trips per day. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Jez on March 13, 2008, 21:56:18 NO NO NO NO NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not another stop! Shall we start stopping Portsmouth - Cardiff trains at Avoncliff? And Patchway! I do think it should call at STJ rather than Filton though. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Lee on March 13, 2008, 23:34:11 One of the interesting things about this is that STAG arent simply asking for this and expecting it to be given, no questions asked :
Quote from: STAG PRESS RELEASE ^ Severn Tunnel Action Group announce appointment of Promotions Officer ^ Appointment results from recent meeting with First Great Western Trains - Aim is to increase awareness and use of Severn Tunnel Junction by off-peak travellers. Colin James, a retired geography school teacher with strong family connections with the rail industry, has today (Monday March 10) been appointed Promotions Officer by the Severn Tunnel Action Group (STAG). Commenting Mr. James said ^I am delighted to be offered this opportunity to be involved with such a prestigious project. The development of Severn Tunnel Junction into a transport hub for South East Wales and Forest of Dean area seems certain to progress. I look forward to playing an important part in this.^ Chairman of STAG, David Flint, commented that Colin had been a member of the action group for over twelve months. He felt certain Colin would bring a fresh and powerful new focus to the team. Colin comes to the role with an established appreciation of the local area, a clear recognition of the importance of vital stakeholder relationships, and a conviction that the railway has a vital role to play in the future of the area^s economic and social development. The appointment has been made following a recent meeting with First Great Western Trains. At the meeting STAG lobbied for extra stops at Severn Tunnel Junction by the Cardiff to Portsmouth trains. They argued for this as Bath and Salisbury were among the most popular destinations from the station. However, STAG conceded that use of Severn Tunnel was low outside of the core commuter times. Colin^s principal role will be to promote the use of rail travel from Severn Tunnel Junction. In this regard he will be liaising with local councils, tourist organisations, chambers of commerce, and the media. He will also be working with the train operating companies to ensure there is maximum local awareness of special offers, services or events. Whether you agree that off-peak Portsmouth-Cardiff services should call at STJ or not, you cant deny that they are doing all they can to justify such a move. I wouldnt bet against them succeeding. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Shazz on March 14, 2008, 01:54:56 I have a short phrase for them.
It starts with "not" and ends with "happen", fancy filling in the gaps? ;) They're being far to optimistic. What they should be doing is getting ATW and CC to retime the gloucester services/ call them at STJ. Not getting FGW to retime them. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: tramway on March 14, 2008, 08:24:04 I had to bite my keyboard when I read the announcement, and my forehead is still sore.
NO NO NO NO NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not another stop! Shall we start stopping Portsmouth - Cardiff trains at Avoncliff? They ALL do in the morning, >:( >:( >:(. That is the main thrust of my argument here. http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1834.30 Lee I've drafted a few bits and pieces re my earlier posts but at the moment getting them into a reasoned argument is very tricky. I agree with you that Bradford/Avoncliff/Freshford residents might be a bit miffed, but I'm with the original authors of the RPC report, and of basing the timings of any 'Main line' service on using the SSCT argument. It's viewing the corridor as a 'main line' which has to be brought out, not necessarily the other factors which might weigh against a fast service along the route. Not sure Filton could afford to lose services if passenger growth figures are anything to go by. 04/05 377,552 05/06 401,325 and growing. STJ 118k and 119k repspectively. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: vacman on March 14, 2008, 09:02:34 NO NO NO NO NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not another stop! Shall we start stopping Portsmouth - Cardiff trains at Avoncliff? Take the Filton stop out of them. Personally, I think we should go back to when it was either STJ or FIT..... For one I agree with you but the rail groups would only moan ::) Believe it or not, you can actually blame the DfT for the fact that this topic exists. Both STAG and Saltash Rail Users Group were set up in the wake of the December 2006 timetable fiasco. Both groups managed to acheive their objectives (reversal of planned service cuts) by getting stops inserted into services that could be classed as "fast." Having done so, its no surprise that they should want to build on that success. Ironically, had the DfT specified the new franchise service levels along the same lines as the old franchise levels, it is quite possible that neither group would exist today. The London Paddington services probably wouldnt call at Saltash and the Portsmouth-Cardiff stops at STJ would probably be as Jim stated earlier. It is also quite likely that Save The Train (and thus the First Great Western Coffee Shop forum) wouldnt exist either, as Melksham/TransWilts would still have 5 round trips per day. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Lee on March 14, 2008, 09:59:19 Lee I've drafted a few bits and pieces re my earlier posts but at the moment getting them into a reasoned argument is very tricky. I agree with you that Bradford/Avoncliff/Freshford residents might be a bit miffed, but I'm with the original authors of the RPC report, and of basing the timings of any 'Main line' service on using the SSCT argument. It's viewing the corridor as a 'main line' which has to be brought out, not necessarily the other factors which might weigh against a fast service along the route. Not sure Filton could afford to lose services if passenger growth figures are anything to go by. 04/05 377,552 05/06 401,325 and growing. STJ 118k and 119k repspectively. I think, given the people/groups involved at Bradford/Avoncliff/Freshford, "a bit miffed" might be an understatement ;D It is also worth noting that STAG are attempting to turn the argument regarding the RPC report on its head : Quote from: STAG Stakeholder Consultation Letter sent 5th December by Mike German AM to Anthony Smith Chief Executive of Passenger Focus pointing out the "Mainline they Shouldn't Ignore" Rail Passenger Committee report recommended the service pattern that withdrew the Portsmouth services. Suggested the report overlooked some of the serious implications and suggested a review was needed. Response received from Passenger Focus. The STAG call for a review of the RPC report doesnt bode well for you when you consider that they have total cross party support from Assembly Members and Members of Parliament plus the backing of SEWTA, not to mention FGW calling them the most effective campaign they have come across and proposing extra STJ stops to Network Rail on their behalf. I think the problem you will have is in framing your proposals so they dont look like they are taking things away from others. For example, WWRUG fought for a regular stop at Bradford-on-Avon in the Portsmouth-Cardiff service for many years, and are likely to strongly oppose it suddenly being removed. Personally, I think that the time to implement the RPC report would have been when it was first published. Had that happened, it would have been seen (largely) as a big step forward. Since then, of course, things have changed somewhat, which was the point I was making with the quote below : NO NO NO NO NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not another stop! Shall we start stopping Portsmouth - Cardiff trains at Avoncliff? Take the Filton stop out of them. Personally, I think we should go back to when it was either STJ or FIT..... For one I agree with you but the rail groups would only moan ::) Believe it or not, you can actually blame the DfT for the fact that this topic exists. Both STAG and Saltash Rail Users Group were set up in the wake of the December 2006 timetable fiasco. Both groups managed to acheive their objectives (reversal of planned service cuts) by getting stops inserted into services that could be classed as "fast." Having done so, its no surprise that they should want to build on that success. Ironically, had the DfT specified the new franchise service levels along the same lines as the old franchise levels, it is quite possible that neither group would exist today. The London Paddington services probably wouldnt call at Saltash and the Portsmouth-Cardiff stops at STJ would probably be as Jim stated earlier. It is also quite likely that Save The Train (and thus the First Great Western Coffee Shop forum) wouldnt exist either, as Melksham/TransWilts would still have 5 round trips per day. vacman took one of the issues out of this as follows : It's not too much of a problem stopping at Saltash due to the exceptionlly low line speed (15MPH) so it doesn't have too much of an effect, but STJ is on a piece of high speed line is it not? STAG have also countered this kind of argument : Quote from: STAG SUBJECT- Cardiff to Portsmouth Service at Severn Tunnel Junction Effect on Journey times of removing Severn Tunnel Junction stop: The removal of the stop at Severn Tunnel Junction has resulted in no reduction in journey times for the Portsmouth service. The Departure times at Newport and Arrival times at Bristol are the same irrespective of whether the trains call or do not call at Severn Tunnel Junction. The reason is the Portsmouth service leaves Cardiff five minutes after the up London service. It follows this train to Newport where it again leaves five minutes after the London service. As there is a seven-minute headway through the Severn Tunnel, those that do not stop have to 'hang back' to avoid receiving a restrictive aspect on the tunnel approach. Leaving the eastern portal of the tunnel there is a theoretical difference of thirty seconds in the timings of trains that have and have not called at the Junction. In the reverse direction the times vary but on average the journey times of those that do not stop are now three minutes longer than they were in previous years when the trains used to call. It is worth noting that I dont actually disagree with what vacman is saying regarding Saltash. Ironically, the problem is often the perception of greater journey times that extra stops at places such as STJ and Saltash create rather than them actually causing any significant journey time increase. My prediction would be that off-peak STJ stops would be in addition to Filton ones, rather than in place of them, so as not to upset the folks there, as infuriating as this will undoubtably be to some forum members. Nevertheless, I await your proposals with genuine great interest, and the offer to help with them is still there. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Shazz on March 14, 2008, 13:23:13 As said before, if they want rail integration, they need to push ATW/ CC to retime there services.
I dont see why FGW should retime there services to intgrate them when it has a minimal benefit for them. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: eightf48544 on March 14, 2008, 14:22:23 One of the problems with the current railway is the amount of infrastructure that has been lost even on open lines.
If you consult Altlas of the Great Western railway by Cooke, you will see that many stations (mostly closed) had platform loops so that a stopper could be ressessed to let a fast go through. The most striking example being something like 10 such places between Padd and Anyho on the joint line via Wycombe. There were even something like four on the Badminton line. There were even loops at some of the recently reopend stations on the Barry to Bridgend line. Then there was four tracks down the bank from Filton, 4 platforms in use at Taunton and Netwon Abbot and in the case of Taunton 4 tracks from Cogload to Norton Fitzwarren. Coupled with lots of single lead junctions it's starting to get impossible to run anymore trains and have an adequate mix of fast and stoppers. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: dog box on March 15, 2008, 08:16:51 Better still stop all Trains at PILINING!!!!!!!
Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Lee on March 15, 2008, 10:19:21 Better still stop all Trains at PILINING!!!!!!! Interesting point, dog box, and one I am sure you are expecting me to give an answer to ;D In order to keep this on topic (the Pilning and Severn Tunnel Junction issues are very different, as I'm sure most forum members appreciate) here is a quote from STAG's detailed response to the FGW December 2007 Changes to the Service Level Commitment Consultation (link below) : http://www.saveseverntunnel.co.uk/TR133%20Severn%20Tunnel%20Action%20Group%20Response%20to%20Changes%20to%20FGW%20Service%20Level%20Commitment.doc Quote from: STAG Section 3 Limited Stops, Sub Paragraph 3.1 Pilning replace Saturday only entry with Monday to Saturday entry to read. - ' Rationale - Request from the area, will provide required commuting service into Bristol that at present can only be made by using car. I think that this would do for now, although Pilning's circumstances may well change in the future. See link below for an excellent and informative debate, with a wide range of views. http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=814.msg3251#msg3251 Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: John R on March 15, 2008, 10:43:23 I do wonder whether the introduction of SDO offers an opportunity to stop two South Wales London services at STJ each way. One in the peak, and one on which Saver fares are valid. This would enable a fairly wide catchment area to have a much easier journey to London, (and Swindon and Reading) than they currently have. Currently they must either change at Temple Meads, or drive to Parkway (which involves ^10 in toll and parking, let alone the time taken to get to Parkway in the rush hour.)
Say 0906 and 1132 arrivals into Padd and 1715 and 1915 departures from Padd? Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Jez on March 15, 2008, 11:24:49 I have a short phrase for them. It starts with "not" and ends with "happen", fancy filling in the gaps? ;) They're being far to optimistic. What they should be doing is getting ATW and CC to retime the gloucester services/ call them at STJ. Not getting FGW to retime them. Its only the early morning CC services that call at STJ isnt it? Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Shazz on March 15, 2008, 15:00:49 I do wonder whether the introduction of SDO offers an opportunity to stop two South Wales London services at STJ each way. One in the peak, and one on which Saver fares are valid. This would enable a fairly wide catchment area to have a much easier journey to London, (and Swindon and Reading) than they currently have. Currently they must either change at Temple Meads, or drive to Parkway (which involves ^10 in toll and parking, let alone the time taken to get to Parkway in the rush hour.) Say 0906 and 1132 arrivals into Padd and 1715 and 1915 departures from Padd? Or, get a short train Journey to Newport... And yes, only the morning and a late evening CC service calls there Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Jez on March 15, 2008, 19:17:46 I do wonder whether the introduction of SDO offers an opportunity to stop two South Wales London services at STJ each way. One in the peak, and one on which Saver fares are valid. This would enable a fairly wide catchment area to have a much easier journey to London, (and Swindon and Reading) than they currently have. Currently they must either change at Temple Meads, or drive to Parkway (which involves ^10 in toll and parking, let alone the time taken to get to Parkway in the rush hour.) Say 0906 and 1132 arrivals into Padd and 1715 and 1915 departures from Padd? Or, get a short train Journey to Newport... And yes, only the morning and a late evening CC service calls there Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: John R on March 15, 2008, 19:36:39 Think you've missed the point. Say you live in Chepstow, or any of the southern Forest of Dean area. You either have (from Chepstow) a 10 minute drive to STJ, allow 10 minutes max to get your train, so 20 mins before you are heading east towards London.
Or, you have to allow the same 20 minutes, then go 10 minutes the wrong way, allow at least 10 minutes connection time, and then 10 minutes back to pass where you started from (ie an extra 30 minutes minimum each way + lots of extra stress and extra cost). Or, you have to drive into Newport, park , pay for parking, allow for traffic congestion, and also be heading 10 miles in the opposite direction (=40 miles for a return trip). The stress free option is to stop a couple of London services at STJ. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: thefab442 on March 15, 2008, 20:23:10 You could get a train to Cheltenham/Gloucester and then to London?
Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: swlines on March 15, 2008, 20:35:08 It would be impossible for a London to Cardiff service to call at Severn Tunnel Junction, and that, realistically is the only way FGW could claim to call a London service there. There is more lee-way in the timetable for a London Paddington to Swansea although I suspect you will be coming to a dead end if you try that one.
At the moment, the timings look something like ... First Great Western If it was modified to call at Severn Tunnel Jn I suspect it would look something like... First Great Western Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: swlines on March 15, 2008, 20:41:45 Separate post for the return run, it would look like so, again, another current train to begin with.
First Great Western First Great Western As you can see, the path diverts as far as Swindon from the current path and is so very risky. You can't depart any earlier from Cardiff due to the xx50 to Manchester Piccadilly that runs ahead as far as Maindee West. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Lee on March 15, 2008, 22:10:40 There is more lee-way in the timetable for a London Paddington to Swansea although I suspect you will be coming to a dead end if you try that one. Its dead end night at FGW...... 20:15 London Paddington to Swansea due 00:14 This train has been revised.It will additionally call at: Severn Tunnel Jn.This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 15, 2008, 22:27:49 No, they've lost me a bit with that one: why does the train have to stop at Severn Tunnel Junction due to a member of train crew going AWOL? ???
Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: grahame on March 15, 2008, 22:33:33 To pick up a new crew member who's being taxied down from Gloucester? Because they quietly want to find out how many minutes it actully adds, and need to find a reason?
Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 15, 2008, 22:39:17 Ah, yes, of course! Another of Baldrick's 'cunning plans'! ;D
Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: swlines on March 15, 2008, 22:43:48 I was thinking it was a dead end on the London - Swansea mainly due to journey time, I've tightened up the timings a slight bit, so it will probably add 3 minutes throughout.
Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Lee on March 15, 2008, 22:47:35 I was thinking it was a dead end on the London - Swansea mainly due to journey time, I've tightened up the timings a slight bit, so it will probably add 3 minutes throughout. Whats your opinion on why they are stopping it at STJ tonight? Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: swlines on March 15, 2008, 22:53:27 They seem to be doing a lot based on what is mentioned on this forum - this comes too much as a co-incidence IMHO. There is no real practical reason why they're stopping at STJ due to train crew shortage - it is more likely if it was Gloucester crew they would be sent to Bristol Parkway to pick it up.
The timings the train have taken so far seem to match mine, although it may be wiser to modify my timings so the STJ stop is 1 minute earlier on the down, but keep same time at Newport. The train has just departed STJ, 2 late at 2247 on their "booked" time of 2245. Title: Re: STAG Portsmouth-Cardiff Campaign Post by: Shazz on March 16, 2008, 00:53:13 Any Padd service to STJ would just get laden with commuters going to and from parkway. So it's pointless.
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