Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => Bristol (WECA) Commuters => Topic started by: Lee on June 21, 2007, 12:12:27



Title: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Lee on June 21, 2007, 12:12:27
Weston MP John Penrose has called for the Government to take action over "severe" train overcrowding and congestion in North Somerset (link below.)
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=17612496&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922

During question time in the Commons he demanded Transport Secretary Douglas Alexander make a commitment to improving local services.

He told MPs that drivers in the region faced congestion on the roads and local train services were packed to capacity.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on December 11, 2007, 22:33:11
The first two days have been identical. The HST arrival into TM just before 0800 has been cancelled (actually ran Plymouth to TM calling only at Exeter on Monday, and then non stop Taunton to London today - fat lot of good for the majority of its passengers who are local commuters between Taunton and Bristol).

The following HST (ex Exeter) forming the 0830 TM to Paddington arrived 25 minutes late on both days. By the time it arrived at North Somerset stations it was picking up 4 train loads of passengers. Still, now the 1st class is platformed it was an easy decision to make given the standard class was akin to a circle line train in the rush hour.

I understand Andrew Griffiths was held up on the Monday, with local MP John Penrose. Tee, hee!

And today there were also two other HST departures cancelled from North Somerset. 

Selective door opening? Maybe, as the Exeter departure was consistenly losing 2 or 3 minutes at each station. All I know is that these two trains were pretty reliable until this week, so something has caused them to go badly wrong.

It's a bit ironic when FGW are encouraging commuters to use the HSTs, yet the new timetable appears to have made them unreliable.

Oh yes, and the 1718 HST home last night crawled into Nailsea 50 minutes late, though I enjoyed the experience of no lights in the coach. Maybe they should have a dark coach in addition to a quiet coach.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Lee on December 12, 2007, 10:25:23
I understand Andrew Griffiths was held up on the Monday, with local MP John Penrose. Tee, hee!

See below :

The Bath Chronicle reports on the first working day of the new FGW timetable:

http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=180730&command=displayContent&sourceNode=227209&contentPK=19224526&folderPk=106757&pNodeId=227220



Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on December 12, 2007, 18:30:41
Day 3. Almost the same today, with the exception that the HST service due to arrive in TM at 0757 did call at all its scheduled stops. However, as it ran up to Bristol behind the 0822 HST arrival (itself 20 minutes down) it was about as much use as a chocolate teapot.  The local from Weston in between was also cancelled just for good measure.

So in summary, in 3 days of the 6 key commuter HST arrivals that we are encouraged to use, we have had 2 cancellations, 1 worthless, and 3 packed services arriving on average 25 minutes late (or 55 minutes late if you arrived for the earlier service.)

HSTs seem to be taking an additional 3-4 minutes per journey leg where SDO is required, so between Taunton and Bristol that will add 20 minutes.       


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: devon_metro on December 12, 2007, 18:56:42
The service you speak of from Plymouth arrived at Paddington a staggering 76 minutes late for no apparant reason!


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on December 13, 2007, 22:52:09
Much better on day 4, with a bit of a clue when the HST pulled up in its "old" position with first class off the patform. Let's hope that's the end of the nonsense with London bound trains platforming first class.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Shazz on December 13, 2007, 23:00:50
aparently its being "trialled" on the origional setup


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Btline on January 19, 2008, 23:49:22
What right have FGW had to invent a new verb- "platformed?"

Will it be added to the OED?

(my spell checker is going mad as I speak!)


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: smokey on January 20, 2008, 12:42:42
What right have FGW had to invent a new verb- "platformed?"

Will it be added to the OED?

(my spell checker is going mad as I speak!)


"platformed" has been a railway word for donkeys years.

To give an example when an HST calls at a short platform coaches A,B,C,D,E and F will be "platformed" whilst coaches G and H will "not be platformed"
At least it's not a case of "Unplatformed"

What does a spellchecker or oed make of the term "BUCKEYE"?

Without buckeyes you won't want to go fast in an HST!


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 20, 2008, 14:59:50
"platformed" has been a railway word for donkeys years.

... unlike "punctual" and "reliable" ...  ;D


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: dog box on January 20, 2008, 18:14:09
Reliability is on the way up!!!!!!


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: vacman on January 20, 2008, 18:44:41
Reliability is on the way up!!!!!!
Yes, I cautiosly agree with you, touch wood things seem to have been a lot better over the last couple of weeks.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 20, 2008, 19:10:44
Fair comment: I haven't found occasion to submit a 'comments card' since 7 January - reliability is much better, and punctuality (give or take a few minutes) is better too!  Please, FGW, keep up the good work!!!


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on January 20, 2008, 19:46:00
I agree it's not been as awful as December, but I suspect it will just revert to the pre timetable change position, which is still considerably worse than the franchise commitment. So in that sense "on the up" has to be seen in context.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: smokey on January 20, 2008, 20:26:53
"platformed" has been a railway word for donkeys years.

... unlike "punctual" and "reliable" ...  ;D


My friend, "punctual" and "reliable" are very common words used on the railway, they are JUST NOT in the First Great Western Dictionary, so can not apply to services run by Farce Great Western


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: devon_metro on January 21, 2008, 16:29:50
Oh?  ???

Most of my trains are on time and I have only ever been cancelled on once!


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: swlines on January 21, 2008, 16:31:46
That's because 'fluke' and 'luck' are in the dictionary!! ;)


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: devon_metro on January 21, 2008, 16:38:38
Trust you to come up with an answer like that  ;)


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: smokey on January 21, 2008, 17:47:47
That's because 'fluke' and 'luck' are in the dictionary!! ;)

I WAS THINKING MORE ON THE LINE OF "THE DEVIL LOOKS AFTER HIS OWN"


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on November 20, 2008, 21:18:25
I notice that the line between Bristol and Taunton is closed at weekends for a good two months next Spring. Is this just the routine renewals which usually necessitates a few closures, or something more significant (dualling Worle Jn, he hopes, in vain?)

Also, I notice that the first down ECS HST to Weston is now a booked stopping service. Not sure how many will be catching the 0559 Nailsea to Weston, and I'm sure those near to the station will enjoy the even earlier wake up call. (At least the Valentas are gone.)



Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: ReWind on November 29, 2008, 13:18:52
Does this mean the return working from Weston up to London will now be of a different departure time from Weston?


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on November 29, 2008, 17:57:55
Welcome to the Forum BristolBlogger, and no, I believe it's broadly unchanched.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: TheLastMinute on November 30, 2008, 02:54:56
I've just been looking though the Rules of the Route on Network Rail's website & it looks to my layman eyes that all the planned work is purely routine maintenance e.g. bridge inspections, sleeper replacement etc.

There's no sign yet (that I can see) of any procession for the proposed doubling of the line between Worle Jnc and Milton but the West of England Partnership seem to expect it to happen sometime in 2009 as seen on their website (http://www.westofengland.org/transport/rail#Pail%20Actiion%20Plan%20Progress).

TLM


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on November 30, 2008, 09:46:57
The MP for Weston was told in early 2007 by NR that Phase 1 was due to be completed in 2008. This appears to be another example of schemes creeping forward at a snail's pace. 

http://www.epolitix.com/mpwebsites/mppressreleases/mppressreleasedetails/newsarticle/network-rail-confirm-doubling-the-track///mpsite/john-penrose/?no_cache=1


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: ReWind on December 01, 2008, 20:03:32
FGW staff seem to know nothing of any Redoubling plans between Worle Jnc. & Milton.  I would love a clear "Is it or Isn't it" going to happen answer on this subject!


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Ollie on December 01, 2008, 23:25:31
FGW staff seem to know nothing of any Redoubling plans between Worle Jnc. & Milton.  I would love a clear "Is it or Isn't it" going to happen answer on this subject!

I'm not to familiar with this area, but is this the bit where it branches off to Weston Super Mare?
As at a public meeting I attended I recall this being discussed.
Chris (Moderator) was at the same meeting so maybe he recalls the details?


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on December 02, 2008, 11:36:20
Indeed it is Ollie, and in the peaks it literally runs to capacity, with any perturbation to service causing knock on delays. The first phase was to dual the junction and add 1 mile of double track to just short of Milton, with a further phase to dual into Weston and then reinstate the bay platform.


 


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: ReWind on December 02, 2008, 14:30:54
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't the Single line from Worle Jnc to Weston busier than the double tracked Avoiding line?

I believe only a hourly XC service in each direction and a rare FGW HST use this line.

Surely if this is line is doubled, the line from Worle Jnc to Weston and even back out to Uphill Jnc should be doubled?


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on December 02, 2008, 14:47:13
Absolutely, but you have to go back nearly 37 years to Jan 1972 when the line was singled. There were not so many trains serving Weston then, particularly in the peak. But like so many infrastructure cuts at that time, it needs reversing now.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: ReWind on December 02, 2008, 17:54:47
Surely since 1972 the track has been relaid though!  Would the Worle Jnc to Weston line be easy to double up though, as there isn't much land to work with, housing estates very near the track etc.

As for the bay platform at Weston, which is currently being used by a Network Rail Sandite Machine, surely this could be converted into a Platform for Passenger use within hours, easing pressure on the 2 through lines!


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on December 02, 2008, 19:00:11
If only it were that easy. Elf'n safety probably means that the bay will need to be rebuilt to modern standards as it is "new". And I expect the signalling does not meet the requirements for passenger services.

As far as I understand the existing formation is still in place, although between Milton and Weston a footbridge (?) has blocked the second line, so would need to be replaced. Hence it's more costly and thus phase 1 ends north of Milton (and also avoids rebuilding the second platform there, which is currently in service at Lympstone Commando and has been for the last 30 years or more.)

I don't think the problem is platform space at Weston - more that in the peak, trains are timed so that as soon as one leaves the single track another occupies it. Thus there is no margin for any delays without knock on effects. 

For example, in the current timetable, trains leave Weston at 0733 and 0750 towards Bristol, but inbetween a train is timetabled to leave Worle at 0741 and arrive at Weston at 0746.  Some other services are timed to arrive at Weston at the same time as one is departing, such as the 0725 (Plymouth to London), which relies on a 0725 arrival from Severn Beach being on time. If the 0725 arrival is held because it is late then it certainly won't be able to make its 0733 departure return working, causing further delays.

So in the peak the service is on a knife edge, and the additional flexibility of dualling the junction and onward to Milton would give a useful margin, as well as presumably giving timetable planners a bit more leeway.

Sorry if this is all a bit detailed!


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: ReWind on December 02, 2008, 21:27:26
If Worle Jnc to Milton was redoubled then that would provide relief for services waiting to enter the line to Weston but if the current single line was to be redoubled, I still couldn't see any room for extra capacity, more trains from BTM to Weston as the line from Parson Street to Worle, currently 2 tracks is currently at or near capacity anyway.

If more trains were to run from BTM to Weston then they would cause problems and delays to the fast XC services that use this stretch of line.



Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Zoe on December 02, 2008, 21:37:17
If Worle Jnc to Milton was redoubled then that would provide relief for services waiting to enter the line to Weston but if the current single line was to be redoubled, I still couldn't see any room for extra capacity, more trains from BTM to Weston as the line from Parson Street to Worle, currently 2 tracks is currently at or near capacity anyway.
The London to South West & South Wales Multi-Modal Study (SWARMMS) recommended the provision of passing loop facilities at a location between Worle and Nailsea.  http://www.swarmms.org.uk/documents/PLANBris-Exev2.pdf


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on December 02, 2008, 22:49:47
If Worle Jnc to Milton was redoubled then that would provide relief for services waiting to enter the line to Weston but if the current single line was to be redoubled, I still couldn't see any room for extra capacity, more trains from BTM to Weston as the line from Parson Street to Worle, currently 2 tracks is currently at or near capacity anyway.
The London to South West & South Wales Multi-Modal Study (SWARMMS) recommended the provision of passing loop facilities at a location between Worle and Nailsea.  http://www.swarmms.org.uk/documents/PLANBris-Exev2.pdf

I think the idea of dualling is to make the existing service more robust, not to add additional services.

Passing loops do exist between Worle and Yatton, and were upgraded for passenger train use a couple of years ago. They are usually used sensibly in the event of late running services, though not always.

And nearer Bristol,  if an up fast service is breathing down the neck of a stopping service then the latter will be routed onto the relief lines after Parson St. The result is that (although it is due to stop at Parson St) the signalling almost brings it to a halt short of Parson St and slows it by around a minute before it even calls at the station. Only then, after the station call can it switch onto the relief line. Result, even further delay for (usually) the XC service.  A fast turn out before Parson St would remove this, but it all costs more money, years of planning, and will never be done.         


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: devon_metro on December 03, 2008, 16:13:11
If Worle Jnc to Milton was redoubled then that would provide relief for services waiting to enter the line to Weston but if the current single line was to be redoubled, I still couldn't see any room for extra capacity, more trains from BTM to Weston as the line from Parson Street to Worle, currently 2 tracks is currently at or near capacity anyway.
The London to South West & South Wales Multi-Modal Study (SWARMMS) recommended the provision of passing loop facilities at a location between Worle and Nailsea.  http://www.swarmms.org.uk/documents/PLANBris-Exev2.pdf

errr whatever happen to Yatton loop :?


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: bemmy on December 06, 2008, 08:44:43
And nearer Bristol,  if an up fast service is breathing down the neck of a stopping service then the latter will be routed onto the relief lines after Parson St. The result is that (although it is due to stop at Parson St) the signalling almost brings it to a halt short of Parson St and slows it by around a minute before it even calls at the station. Only then, after the station call can it switch onto the relief line. Result, even further delay for (usually) the XC service.  A fast turn out before Parson St would remove this, but it all costs more money, years of planning, and will never be done.         
It's a shame they couldn't have done this when the work was being done to re-open the Portbury freight line. But that would involve integration between work for freight and passenger purposes, which I believe is what they call "joined up thinking" and therefore practically illegal.  :)


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Lee on January 14, 2009, 23:03:53
John Penrose has written to rail minister Lord Adonis to demand that the government provide 44 extra train carriages, which FGW have requested to meet the demands of capacity and future rail growth in the South West (link below.)
http://www.politics.co.uk/news//opinion-former-index/transport/calls-rail-investment-prevent-motorway-hell-$1260607.htm


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: G.Uard on January 15, 2009, 09:48:38
When is the average backwoods politico going to realise that it's not just a matter of popping down to 'Carriages R Us'?  Or am I being naive in not recognising this as a clumsy and transparent attention grabber?


Lee, apologies but the link you posted is incomplete.

http://www.politics.co.uk/news//opinion-former-index/transport/calls-rail-investment-prevent-motorway-hell-$1260607.htm (http://www.politics.co.uk/news//opinion-former-index/transport/calls-rail-investment-prevent-motorway-hell-$1260607.htm)


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: bemmy on January 15, 2009, 16:49:43
Surely a Tory MP complaining about the shortfall in railway provision is a bit like King Herod bemoaning the lack of firstborn children.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Lee on January 15, 2009, 16:58:14
Lee, apologies but the link you posted is incomplete.

http://www.politics.co.uk/news//opinion-former-index/transport/calls-rail-investment-prevent-motorway-hell-$1260607.htm (http://www.politics.co.uk/news//opinion-former-index/transport/calls-rail-investment-prevent-motorway-hell-$1260607.htm)

No worries, thanks for posting one that works.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: G.Uard on January 16, 2009, 09:17:37
 
Surely a Tory MP complaining about the shortfall in railway provision is a bit like King Herod bemoaning the lack of firstborn children.
;D  Love it!

Completely off topic I know...but in Greece, when kids misbehave, parents often say that King Herod was the most misunderstood man in the Bible.



Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: inspector_blakey on January 16, 2009, 23:25:44
When is the average backwoods politico going to realise that it's not just a matter of popping down to 'Carriages R Us'?  Or am I being naive in not recognising this as a clumsy and transparent attention grabber?

Absolutely right. Bleating about public transport and giving the railways a kicking does seem to be a speciality of witless local politicians and the equally witless local journos who'd rather sit on their backsides and pick their noses than go out and report on some actual news. Then again, we are talking about Weston in January. I suppose there can only be so much happening there  ;)


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: devon_metro on January 17, 2009, 00:10:59
Do half hourly hsts ( in general) at peak time not provide enough capacity?


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: simonw on January 17, 2009, 00:30:58
It depends on the number of passengers and carriages!

After all Reading has 8 HSTs per hour to London, and about 4 local trains and they still packed.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on January 17, 2009, 10:28:39
Do half hourly hsts ( in general) at peak time not provide enough capacity?

In the morning, yes. In the evening they are only hourly, and so there is a serious imbalance in the number of seats provided, resulting in considerable overcrowding.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 19, 2009, 21:20:58
A couple of updates on this topic -

From the Bristol Evening Post, 'Plea for more train carriages in Bristol':

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Plea-train-carriages-Bristol/article-623538-detail/article.html

Also from the Bristol Evening Post, 'MP lands high-profile role in reshuffle':

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/MP-lands-high-profile-role-reshuffle/article-626339-detail/article.html


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: paul7575 on January 19, 2009, 22:27:43
The 52 carriages for FGW in the rolling stock plan was always expected to include more for the LTV lines than the 'Bristol area'. But these announcements (such as the 200 carriages in December) are not the full picture - they could well provide 11 x 4 car units for the Cardiff - Portsmouth route, and send 10 x 3 and 1 x 2 car 158 up north. Net result 12 extra carriages for Bristol...

I'd emphasise that is pure guesswork on my part, but it would fit both the previous government announcements, and the 44 car story the Bristol media came up with previously, albeit with no real evidence AFAICS...

Paul


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Btline on July 17, 2009, 22:56:44
Quote
Local MP John Penrose has expressed his concern over Government plans to electrify the Paddington to Bristol main rail line which could mean a cut in vital commuter services between Weston-super-Mare and Bristol.
The Government is currently assessing the viability of electrifying the Great Western main line. Mr Penrose is a strong supporter of electrification, but he^s concerned that if the line to Weston isn't included in the plans then the intercity High Speed Trains (HST) which currently serve the town may no longer be able to reach it as they would be limited to the new electric lines only. The rush hour HSTs are an essential component in reducing overcrowding on Weston's commuter rail services and have made a real difference since they were introduced after extensive lobbying of First Great Western by Mr Penrose and others 18 months ago.
The Weston MP has now written to Lord Adonis, the Secretary of State for Transport, demanding to know whether Weston will be included in the Government's electrification plans and that the Minister consider the impact of his decision on Weston-super-Mare. He has also sought reassurances that, if Weston^s track isn^t electrified, steps are taken to preserve and improve current levels of services. He has said that this will be crucial for the future of the town, especially if the Government pushes ahead with its plan to impose 12,000 new houses on the sea-side town which will potentially add to Weston^s 20,000 commuters.
John said: ^Over the last few years we^ve managed to make significant progress in introducing more high capacity diesel intercity trains at rush hour to help relieve the overcrowded commuter services.
^But if the main line is electrified and doesn^t include the track to Weston, those trains won't be able to reach us because they will only run on the new electric lines. This could mean a massive cut to our current levels of service and would be a giant step backwards. We would return to unacceptable levels of overcrowding and would end up pushing people off the train and back into their cars, adding to the already-overcrowded M5.
^It^s crucial that the Government realises the effects that part electrification of the line could have on Weston. That^s why I^ve written to the Minister responsible and urged him to look at the impact of his plans. If the Government decides that electrification is not viable for Weston then they need to ensure that the current service levels are maintained, and must be willing to improve them in future too to relieve the ever increasing congestion on our roads and motorway.^

Source: http://www.politics.co.uk/mps/press-releases/party-politics/conservatives/weston^s-rail-commuter-services-could-be-cut-warns-town^s-mp-$1312081$452165.htm


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: inspector_blakey on July 18, 2009, 04:55:28
Not like you to post hysterical articles from the local politicians speculating wildly about things that probably won't happen in several years' time, is it btline...?  ;)


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on July 18, 2009, 10:52:59
I'm surprised to hear that Mr Penrose thinks the rush hour HSTs were only introduced 18 months ago after extensive lobbying by him. I could have sworn that I've been using them for the last 6 years.

Electrifying only to Weston won't solve the problem either as two of the sets work up from Exeter and Plymouth.
 


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Lee on July 18, 2009, 19:46:36
Like him or loathe him, Penrose has managed to clock up some more media coverage with this - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/8157329.stm and http://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/content/twm/news/story.aspx?brand=Westonmercury&category=news&tBrand=westonmercury&tCategory=znews&itemid=WeED17%20Jul%202009%2016%3A31%3A16%3A893

Interesting response from the DfT, which either does or doesnt answer the question, depending on how you look at it:

Quote from: Department for Transport spokesman
Commuter services between Weston and Bristol would not be affected by changes to the line between Weston and London.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Graz on July 19, 2009, 16:34:55
So if this happens and we don't see HSTs between Bristol and Weston any longer, I would actually call this being affected ;D


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 06, 2009, 12:25:42
From politics.co.uk (http://www.politics.co.uk/mps/press-releases/party-politics/conservatives/weston-mp-demands-extra-rail-carriages-after-track-improvements-are-cancelled-$1332216.htm):

Quote
Weston-super-Mare MP John Penrose is demanding that the Government provides extra rail carriages for services to and from the sea-side town to provide relief to over-crowded commuter services. The move comes after track improvements between Weston and Worle were shelved.

In a letter to the Secretary of State for Transport, Lord Adonis, the local MP has demanded that alternative measures to increase capacity and provide relief to over-crowded commuter services must be taken now that the track improvements have been dropped. The MP has already pushed the Government on First Great Western^s bid for an extra twelve carriages for the region, as these would increase the capacity of at least two peak time services from Weston to Bristol. But he is now also calling for the Government to provide the carriages to lengthen a further four of Weston^s peak time services, which should provide the necessary capacity for commuters until 2019.

John Penrose said: ^These extra carriages are crucial if Weston is to have a reliable and comfortable train service which can be used by commuters and tourists alike and provide a viable alternative to using our roads and avoiding the chaos at Junction 21.

^ve spoken to Network Rail chiefs and they tell me that these extra carriages can provide the same advantages as the Weston and Worle track improvements which is welcome news. But it^s only the Government who can guarantee the new carriages and funding required.

^It^s vital that we provide Weston with the train service it deserves. That^s why I^ve written to the Minister responsible and will continue to push the Government until they deliver the extra carriages we need.^


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: grahame on October 07, 2009, 08:44:14
Where there is a fairly frequent ("a number of trains every hour") service that is crowded, there seems sense in building capacity by lengthening rather than running more trains.   If the service is measured as "trains every n hours" then it doesn't make sense.

I recall grumbling that the seven seventeen morning train to Swindon had been cancelled.  "But Graham - the next train was twice as long" was offered in jest by an FGW Manager at the time.  Problem was - next train was seven fortyseven that night.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: bemmy on October 07, 2009, 12:53:30
AIUI the track capacity improvements were to improve reliability, not a plan to run more trains.

The present government is not going to target extra coaches at areas that have never voted Labour and never will. And when the Tories get in, and discover that they can't save half as many billions as they thought by making sick people work and waving the magic wand of efficiency across all govt departments, they will have to bring the hatchet down on the railways and other public services.

Although the line does clearly need longer trains at peak times, there is absolutely no way that a Tory government would ever fund it, even if they weren't inheriting a disastrous national balance sheet. Outside of London, I don't believe that they will invest a single penny in any transport infrastructure that isn't roads. I haven't forgotten the 1980s.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on October 07, 2009, 17:28:08

Although the line does clearly need longer trains at peak times,

Which services are overcrowded these days? The only one I can think of is the 1753(2?) ex Bristol in the evening. The HST's soak up the commuters in the morning.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: bemmy on October 07, 2009, 18:41:06

Although the line does clearly need longer trains at peak times,

Which services are overcrowded these days? The only one I can think of is the 1753(2?) ex Bristol in the evening. The HST's soak up the commuters in the morning.
I don't travel on any particular service often enough to know which ones are regularly overcrowded, so maybe I'm being unfair -- it is only the down evening ones where I've seen overcrowding this year and perhaps each time it was the 1754, for all I remember. You're right about the morning services -- for a long time I didn't bother trying to use them after being left on the platform a few times at Parson St. The loco set has helped too.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: JayMac on October 08, 2009, 00:33:06
Perhaps there is someone on this forum who regularly travels on local services that run from Weston to Bristol who may have an idea of loadings at various times of the day. Someone from say, Nailsea?


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Lee on December 01, 2009, 19:33:35
The latest from a favourite MP of this forum...

From the Weston & Somerset Mercury: (http://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/content/twm/news/story.aspx?brand=Westonmercury&category=news&tBrand=westonmercury&tCategory=znews&itemid=WeED01+Dec+2009+17%3A04%3A15%3A250)

Quote from: Weston & Somerset Mercury
Train service disappointment

Train services in Weston could deteriorate if the Government 'doesn't get its act sorted' - according to the town's MP.

John Penrose has hit out at the Government's plan to electrify the track between London and Bristol, resulting in it scrapping plans to provide additional diesel carriages for the area to First Great Western.

Under the plans announced last year the rail giant could have received an additional 44 carriages for the South West region.

Mr Penrose has today written to rail minister Lord Adonis demanding to know how the Government will fulfil its capacity targets to 2014 now that it will not provide the region with the carriages it needs.

He says in addition the Government has still not reached agreement on carriage leases from across the country.

At present, they are due to lapse in the middle of next year, meaning the South West could lose 24 of its existing carriages, reducing capacity and service levels further.

Mr Penrose said: "This is a double blow for Weston rail users.

"The new carriages would have improved the service significantly, giving Weston's hard-pressed commuters an alternative to using their cars.

"Weston deserves a first-class train service, but if the Government doesn't get its act sorted, we'll end up with a second-rate one.

"That's why I'm pushing it to come clean on how it's going to increase capacity as it promised.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: clevedonian on December 01, 2009, 20:03:25
I am really happy with the weston-bristol service in general, maybe a few extra carriages are needed, but there is 1/2hourly service each way, and regular london trains in the morning and evenining peak.

If you compare yatton to somewhere like yate i think the service is so much better.

however any campaigning to improve the service is welcome!


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on December 12, 2009, 15:33:53
Waiting to alight at Nailsea on the 2145 Paddington to Exeter last night the TM mentioned that consideration is benig given to stopping this short at Temple Meads from next May.

Does anyone know if there is any truth in this, and if so, is the service specified under the franchise?


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: clevedonian on December 12, 2009, 16:01:59
Waiting to alight at Nailsea on the 2145 Paddington to Exeter last night the TM mentioned that consideration is benig given to stopping this short at Temple Meads from next May.

Does anyone know if there is any truth in this, and if so, is the service specified under the franchise?

I have caught this train a few times, and when i have been on it passenger numbers are low.

It doesn;t need a HST a 2 car train would be fine in my opinion.

So they could just terminate the HST at Brizzle, and run a connectiong all station stopper to exeter/taunton or whatever.



Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Timmer on December 12, 2009, 20:04:16
Isn't the set used for the 2145 used the following day for the 0546 Exeter-Padd? If so what would happen to this service?


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: devon_metro on December 12, 2009, 20:08:01
Isn't the set used for the 2145 used the following day for the 0546 Exeter-Padd? If so what would happen to this service?

Its essentially a glorified ECS past Bristol.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: John R on December 12, 2009, 20:16:13
About 20 pax got off at Nailsea last night, though I would expect it to be pretty quite past Weston.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Timmer on December 12, 2009, 20:31:03
Its essentially a glorified ECS past Bristol.
So that would still have to take place at some point during the night or a set come from Laira?


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Super Guard on December 12, 2009, 20:54:56
Its essentially a glorified ECS past Bristol.
So that would still have to take place at some point during the night or a set come from Laira?

It's Exeter Crew that work it, so one assumes it would go ECS back to Exeter.  There is a stopper (2200 Cardiff-Exeter) which goes ahead of the current HST, but I am sure it could be re-timed to run as a 4-car behind the ECS HST.  It couldn't go down any later than it does, as it has to be cleaned ready for the 0546 Exeter-Padd.  I believe the 0546 is very busy by the time it goes through Pewsey, so the only sensible change might be to start it at Taunton, but then you'd have to get the Exeter crew up there so seems a bit pointless.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: devon_metro on December 12, 2009, 20:57:25
Said HST is cleaned in Riverside yard afaik. I've certainly seen it there whilst attempting to sleep on the "beds" with lots of customary wheelflats!  :(


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Super Guard on December 12, 2009, 21:07:32
Said HST is cleaned in Riverside yard afaik. I've certainly seen it there whilst attempting to sleep on the "beds" with lots of customary wheelflats!  :(

One of Exeter night cleaners boards on arrival from London ~0115, set then goes up to "New Yard" (Waterloo Yard), and is then bought out just after the 0510 Exeter-Waterloo leaves.  Riverside yard does not 'Shore Supply' afaik.  Riverside is usually used by freight, but was used by Voyagers when Exeter-Taunton was closed back in January.


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: devon_metro on December 12, 2009, 21:13:54
Sorry,  i meant New Yard - always get those two mixed up


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Lee on December 19, 2009, 17:49:59
It's Exeter Crew that work it, so one assumes it would go ECS back to Exeter.  There is a stopper (2200 Cardiff-Exeter) which goes ahead of the current HST, but I am sure it could be re-timed to run as a 4-car behind the ECS HST. 

How many coaches does the 2200 currently have, and what type of units are they?


Title: Re: Through trains: London to Bristol, Weston and beyond (merged topics)
Post by: Super Guard on December 20, 2009, 00:42:00
Pre-timetable change, Monday-Thursday 2 car 143 (or 150 if you were lucky), Friday night had a 3-car 158.  I did have a 4 car once 150+143, so it did vary.

I believe that it's now a 143 or 150 Monday-Friday.



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