Great Western Coffee Shop

I understand there are plans to provide sleeper lounges at Penzance and Truro for people waiting for the evening up service and to provide a welcome for those getting off the down service in the morning.  Whether these will double up as first class lounges during the day I don't know.

I seem to remember that there may possibly have been some reference to that proposal in one of the slides flashed up on the screens during Ben Rule's presentation at the TravelWatch SouthWest meeting in Taunton last Saturday.  :P

The trouble was, there were so many slides, shown in quick succession, and containing so much textual detail, that it was impossible to take it all in - while still listening to the speaker.  ::)

I'll obtain copies of the slides used, and report back here in due course.  ;)

Might be an idea to do something at Plymouth too for those who are (metaphorically) chucked off the down sleeper at around 0515?

A lounge with breakfast, WiFi etc would be ideal as there's very little happening in Plymouth at that time of the morning and the ungodly hour is a considerable disincentive for Plymouth passengers to use it.

What's really needed is a business orientated service leaving Paddington at around 0530, getting into Plymouth before 0900 to allow for a full day's business, the current first arrival is far too late.

Am I right in thinking they used to detach a sleeper coach at Plymouth which allowed passengers to sleep on for a while, and/or there's an easement which allows them to travel forward into Cornwall and back slightly later at no extra charge?

There was indeed a sleeper coach available from around 10.30pm on the up journey and until around 7am on the down.   There was also an easement, but there are conflicting views whether it remains.  ATOC has two versions of the list of easements on its website.

Until quite recently, this first Plymouth train of the day via the Berks and Hants was the 09:06 off Paddington - the 07:06 was introduced as a Paignton service with a change at Newton Abbott, and recently that was diverted to Plymouth.   On Saturday, Ben Rule announced  that there's to be an earlier service too (06:37, I think) starting quite soon, at around 06:37 from Paddington

Whilst I hope for these not to be "all halts" services, with that early departure from London the business case is made by the huge pickups of passengers at places like Westbury as they head west.

Thanks Grahame, a step in the right direction.

As it stands, the sleeper gets to Plymouth too early (0515-ish) to be practical, and the first "normal" train of the day arrives at 1033, I guess if the 0637 you allude to materialises then we could be looking at something around 0945 (providing it doesn't stop everywhere), but I still think it needs to be an hour earlier - OK I am biased because I am a Janner, however for the biggest and most important city in the South West to be inaccessible by train (currently) until 1033 renders it a weak option for business, especially since Plymouth Airport closed (....don't get me started on that one!)  >:( ;)

Arrives at Penzance 1237 I believe.

0945 is ample for business....nicely times for a 1000 meeting. It's not intended for long-distance commuting

Depends where the meeting is, if it is in the station caf^ then possibly yes.  However I like to arrive about 10 minutes before the start of a meeting so I can boot the laptop up, sort out wifi codes etc. 

Maybe it'll arrive 0935?....still quite possible

The other option to rail, the coach has 3 arrivals in Plymouth between 0500 and 0600 between national express and megabus. It seems public transport operators think passengers want to be in Plymouth by 0600

Students....not workers

You have an interesting view of "Business" - try saying to a client whose custom you're chasing "sorry can't meet you at 9, 10 is ample" and see how long the conversation lasts after that.

Mo one meets at 9....

Will these lounges have bunk beds ? or at least reclining seats with pillows and blankets, for use when the 57 on the sleeper fails AGAIN :)

Oh yes they do.  In the opposite direction I often have to attend meetings in London that start at 9am and the only train that gets in from the far west is the 0553 from Plymouth which gets into Paddington at 0900......otherwise its the overnight sleeper or stay in a hotel the night before.....or be late for the meeting start ::) :P

Interesting - only conference registrations in my experience do.....otherwise 0930 is the earliest generally in my experience.

In the Souuth West, we lykes to start earleee, Chris B.

I have an 08:30 tomorrow ... and a couple of weeks back an 07:30 to an event to listen to Diane Burke of GWR talk about the new brand.  Oh - and I have an 09:00 in Plymouth next Monday;  wish the 06:38 from Melksham had a connection at Westbury.   That would be a fictional 05:45 from Paddington (Reading, Westbury, Taunton, Exeter, Newton Abbot, Plymouth)

When I was working - based in Exeter - I regularly had meetings at our other offices, in Salisbury, Bristol, Dorking and London, and can count on the fingers of one hand the number of morning meetings that started later than 9am.

There are currently four Bristol-bound services during the week that leave Paddington before 7am and the first of these arrives in Bristol before the first Plymouth-bound service leaves Paddington. If a Plymouth-bound passenger chose to travel via Bristol on the first of these (05:19), they would still not arrive in Plymouth until 10:33!

Even 10 is early for a meeting in my experience. Majority of mine are 11am - 1pm or 2-4pm

Clearly not a very Friendly organisation then.  ;D

I work in academia (aka relax-ademia) and often have meetings before 10:00am.

A conference in Norwich earlier in the summer, starting at 9:15am, left home at 5:15am to make the first train of the day therefore avoiding the cost of a hotel.
Meeting with external advisors last month, started at 9:00am as several were travelling back up North and wanted to get home on the train at a reasoable hour.
Conference in LA, started at 8:30am every day for five days, inlcuding a Saturday and Sunday!

I think your claim of no-one meeting at 9 is a little far fetched.

I did exclude conferences....

In my defence, I was referring to external meetings, doing business, rather than internal staff meetings

From the slide used by Ben Rule at TravelWatch SouthWest in Taunton:

Was any indication given of the stopping pattern for that c06:37 or when it might be in the timetable?

No, Bob: I've quoted the full text from the slide, and I can't remember whether Ben added any detail in his talk - he was covering a lot of ground in the time available, so to speak!  ::)

No worries. I should have been there to listen but the day job, which would make use of such a train, got in the way!  ;D

Here is the wording from that particular slide:

This was announced earlier in the year within the franchise document, Page 10

Also Page 48



The document says from the May 2017 timetable change

The addition of the 0637 service is encouraging, if it's getting in at around 0945 that would suggest very few stops - perhaps Reading-Taunton-Tiverton-Exeter-Plymouth?

Apart from ChrisB (who likes a lie-in!  ;)) I still think it's an hour or so too late for those of us who start business at 0900 (or earlier!) - I wonder if it's not possible to run this one earlier, would it be possible, as extra coaches seem to be available, to run the down sleeper a little later so that it gets into Plymouth at say 0730, or even better return to having a carriage which is detached at Plymouth, allowing passengers to alight around 0800 rather than the current 0515?

Sorry, the demand to be in Plymouth from East of Exeter for 0800 I reckon could be counted on one hand on a day to day basis.

I'd be interested in knowing on what you base this latest assumption since currently it's impossible by rail so I'm unclear what empirical/anecdotal data exists? 

If you'd tried the A38 into Plymouth at that time of the morning your opinion may be somewhat different! (...and yes I know it's not all coming from East of Exeter)

What I do know for a fact (because I have been involved in several) is that one of the key factors that Businesses look at in deciding where to locate/relocate is the availability of regular and reliable transport links, be it local and/or with National reach for larger companies - it's one of the more significant factors in the "rise" of Exeter as a location for Business at the expense of the (much larger) city of Plymouth, irrespective of the decline of the Dockyard.

Not the only factor, but can be a key differentiator when it comes to making the decision. It's a good opportunity for rail to be part of a joined up picture and to generate income.

So, you think GWR are going ahead with this earlier service based on a projected passenger count of 5 or fewer per day?

 ::)

Many more people travel on the sleeper to Penzance than Plymouth. It's the only train that connects with the Scillonian to St Mary's.

Funnily enough, I hadn't appreciated the importance of the offshore island market until I had a discussion on passenger flows with the station adopter for Mallaig last Friday.

Errr.....GWR new offering arrives c.0945, we're now discussing whether it ought to be even earlier at c. 0800. Donkeep up at the back please

Actually Chris my original "0800" suggestion upthread related to a coach being detached from the down sleeper on arrival at Plymouth in order to enable passengers to stay on board until around 0800, it was nothing to do with GWR's new offering, notwithstanding that an earlier arrival time (by 1 hour?) than 0945 at Plymouth for that one would be handy.

Maybe the flexibility provided by the AT300 fleet will make it worthwhile running a 5-car set from Paddington westwards before 6am, perhaps coupling at Exeter to form a longer 10-car service for Plymouth commuters? Certainly it would be massive overkill to provide a full length train at that time of the morning.

Why would you locate your company that far West if you need a regular fast connection towards London? You just wouldn't...plenty of other more suitable locations

In the absence of public transport to Plymouth earlier than say 10am, is premier inn and travelodge style accommodation in Plymouth booming? This may indicate whether people want to get to Plymouth earlier by public transport.

   .......not sure if that's intended as a rhetorical question, but.thankyou for proving my point very succinctly.....that's exactly why one is needed to improve the region's viability......an earlier arrival is a good first step.

Depending on maintenance/stabling arrangements this could mean turning what would otherwise be an ECS positioning move into a passenger service I suppose.

and is exactly why it takes a breached sea wall to provoke any potential central government investment. If Dawlish hadn't happened, Devon and Cornwall would probably still be ignored by central government

Is that a cross between these two?

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/8007173989_04c29da05a_b_zpsby8wzpin.jpg)

Don't be an ass.  ;D

So, you are saying that GWR has to run a loss-making service in order to (possibly) attract businesses to Plymouth? Shouldn't the Council be sponsoring this?

ChrisB - so far in this thread from you we've had assumptions that no-one has meetings before 0900, assumptions that only students arrive early in the morning via the overnight coaches, assumptions that only around 5 people want to get to Plymouth from East of Exeter in the morning, and now you've decided that an early morning service would be lossmaking, despite the fact that it's never been tried and GWR are planning on running one which will arrive roughly an hour earlier than the current earliest arrival......when it's suggested that you come up with some data or evidence  to back any of this up, you just ignore it and move on to another assumption - sorry but it's difficult to have any meaningful dialogue on that basis.

2C41 EXD-PAR which arrives at PLY at 07.40 is usually run as a 153, which is generally plenty of capacity.

I know they are not before 08:00 but you do also have the 08:11 and 08:33 both from Bristol, these would be more suitable for being in a meeting/the office by 09:00

Indeed, the 0833 arrival is a pretty fast service leaving Temple Meads at 0634. It was introduced a couple of years ago, so its popularity could be an indication of potential demand.

I will possibly be on that train on Monday morning, and will let you know.   Problem is lack of connection into it from Wiltshire ...

Yes, the 06:09 from Bath is the furthest east passengers can start from in order to catch that train.

Pretty well loaded 5 car (I think - I was in "F") Voyager - say around 200 people.  Probably about 100 from Bristol, with a good business from there / Taunton / Tiverton into Exeter and lots of people both off and on there.   Probably carried about 300 passenger journeys in total.

Dearth of taxis at Plymouth ... but that's another story - lots dropping people off but then driving off (for their next booked fare?) without taking anyone from the queue.   However, much of the traffic did appear to be commuter - I would guess at 50 to 60 from Bristol.

Thanks Grahame that's very interesting - work takes me to Bristol quite frequently these days, I may stay over and give that one a go for my next trip home to Plymouth - shorter trip and earlier arrival.

As for the taxi shortage - quite surprising, normally lots on the rank at North Road but it was school run time I guess........either that or perhaps they were busy taking everyone to their 0900 meetings?  ;)

Back to original thread  ;) It appears new lounges at Penzance & Truro are now open, but "finishing touches" taking place. Certainly make using the up sleepers in winter a more pleasant experience !

Oh, I dunno. It is quite pleasant waiting in The Longboat Inn in Penzance. Admittedly it's been a few years since I've ridden the beds. I think the last time I did was when the line reopened after the Dawlish washout.

Possibly too much information?  ;)

Some pictures towards the bottom of this post - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16289.msg244529#msg244529 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16289.msg244529#msg244529)