Great Western Coffee Shop

Swansea, Cardiff, Newport, Bristol, Bath, Trowbridge, Salisbury, Southampton, Portsmouth. What a list of major towns and cities ... with poor road links between them. When I was a lad, there were a handful of trains serving the route each day - Compton class 33 diesel locomotives with a rake of coaches. We've moved up from a handful of services to an hourly service, all be it with much shorter trains - but this is a major corridor.

And there's a case for a "flagship" service to be run, hourly, along the corridor. Using trains that are less than 10 years old, with a higher capacity than the current ones, which include first class accommodation, are capable of high speed where it's practical such as the South Wales to Bristol section, onwards to Bath and perhaps in the Wylie Valley and from Salisbury's outskirts to Romsey.

OK ... I'm "Kite Flying", but wouldn't it make so much sense?  As well as providing a service, it would make good use of stock and help with stock for other routes. It would increase capacity without having to increase driver / conductor numbers on the line.

It would definetly make sense but this does not seem very likely. Ever since First took over the franchise they have only downgraded this route but with Andrew Haines now in charge who knows what could happen.

Now this is where i seriously think there is a market for the 180s.  Swansea has been without any through trains to Bristol TM and Bath since 2001!  Every journey to the South/South West from South Wales (west of Cardiff!) requires a change at Cardiff.  I am sure the 14 180's could be diagrammed very nicely into this route to make it truely premium or 'InterCity'.

A change in this direction would bring it in line with the quality of train services in Scotland!!

I am in total support as I see this line with great potential. Come on Andrew there is an oportunity here to improve this line and the ones that feed onto it and the class 180s would be ideal. Talking of class 180s, I have seen it mentioned that Angel are asking stupid money for them so much so that the TOCs are falling about laughing at the price they want which doesnt look good and just adds fuel to the government's fire that the ROSCOS are overcharging for rolling stock.

Talking of premium route or lack of in these two cases. The 15.47 and 17.47 Brighton-Bristol services were operated by 150s today which meant the 10.15 and 12.15 services Cardiff-Brighton would have been 150s so this route has been over run by them today. A few more for your 150s trespassing on the Severn Solent line log book Lee.

I think we can get used to more 150s straying from their normal haunts these coming months whilst the 158s are having their refurbs

Even if FGW were to keep the 180's I dont think we would see them on the Cardiff Central - Portsmouth Harbour route.

I do recall that when they were first introduced they were banned from the Limpley Stoke route because they were out of gauge for the Dundas Aqueduct on the line.

The problem is that this structure is constructed with an inward bow from tunnel mouth to tunnel mouth and there was limited clearance for the wider bodied 180's. Eventually they were approved for the route but I was told they were restricted to a slow speed through this structure. Whether this has been resolved by realignment of the track through this structure since, I am not aware.

Comments from those "in the know" welcome.

I totally agree that FGW should look at better a better service to all the major towns of the franchise region.

A regular service from Cheltenham/Gloucester to Southampton should also be considered!

Quote from Insider (link below.)
http://indefenceoffirstgreatwestern.blogspot.com/2007/08/dft.html

"If we were able to get the Adelantes back as extra stock, they would be of use. The technical make up of the Adelantes means that they can only be run as 5 or 10 car sets but I think that they would be of use even on the Portsmouth run."

As I said in another thread, class 180s would be perfect for the route- and extending the trains to Swansea would be the icing on the cake.

I think we're pretty much in agreement that 180s would be the ideal solution to the Cardiff-Pompey route. Surely FGW are thinking the same IF they can get them for the right price. As said earlier in this thread, it is believed that Angel are asking far too much for them. They would know that they could be used hence asking such a high price.

I'm not only looking at this specific case .... I can't help feeling sad that commercial negotiotions / gambling with the pricing of things has worked to the detriment of the rail travel and the economy as a whole within the current  way the whole system operates.   However - I am empahtically NOT feeling like taking on the whole system; much much better to look to understand the system and help work with and within it.

Not sure where that takes us except to sadlu conclude "Great dream. Sensible answer. Chance would be a fine thing under the current set of rules ..."

It better of been resolved, as 1 goes through there M-F at about 20.50 working 5A85 20.35 Westbury-SPM!

Jim.

Also is there ECS workings for the 0617 Westbury to Paddington and the 0629 Frome to Paddington from SPM. Can you quote a passenger service which operates with 180's on the Limpley Stoke line.

There are no passenger runs on 180s between Westury and Bath Spa,  I presume thats where Limpley stoke is!

I'm very happy to learn that there are empty workings, though; for this means that the trains are allowed through that way - unlike the Thames Turbos.

A high quality service - Portsmouth to Swansea with fast, modern trains - does look more and more sensible to me. And (note to cash-hungry operator  ;) ) people would be prepared to pay for a first class service, and would fill your seats.  What about it?

I belive the Frome comes from SPM BUT the Westbury comes ECS  from








Wait for it

















Old Oak Commen!

I mocked up a Timetable in excel last night

Yep, the area just a little north of Freshford!

I would DEFINITELY be willing to pay more. I was at Bristol TM yesterday watching people squeeze into a packed 2-car 158 Portsmouth-Cardiff service, and I'd hate to be one of them. Just imagine how many more could be travelling - and paying - on this route with better trains?

Ironically though, the service I was boarding was 2 x class 143s (Cardiff to Westbury) and that journey was very nice!

And to think that this time last year that would have been a three car train. How sad and how far this service has regressed.

Could you possibly send a copy of this to me at canber@hotmail.co.uk

It would greatly help me with some research I am conducting.

I know it would probaly be a backward step but with all the Mk3's which were displaced by the Virgin Pendolinos and are currently stored in sidings her and there, hows about FGW hiring in a few sets of 5 of these coaches and 67's from EWS (now EWS have sorted out their paperwork) and operating the Pompey - Cardiffs as top and tailed services. This would release some 158's to be deployed elsewhere which would render the requirement for the 142's a non-starter.

sounds like a plan, but anything that envolves investment by FGW seems to be a non starter...

Loco hauled stock isn't desireable though.

Its not standard in the unit fleet and it would require driver training, also checking 67s can run the whole route.

Great idea but there is a problem. Suddenly the rail industry has finally woken up to the fact that MK3 coaching stock is rather good after all and so everyone wants them again, either for conversion into MK3 HST coaches in the case of Grand Central and Arriva XC or to be hauled by Class 90s in the case of East Coast. This says alot about the standard of modern rolling stock that after a number of years stored at MOD sidings MK3s have suddenly come back in demand. In my opinion they are without doubt the best rolling stock going either as HSTs or loco hauled.

I bet the rail companies wished that the ROSCOS hadn't sold the MK3s that now belong to charter train companies as they could be very useful. I remember a few years back one of the ROSCOS flexing their muscles by actually breaking one up under the guise of use it or lose it.

I think refurbed MK2s could still have a future for this line, they worked well enough on the Bristol-Weymouth line when they actually ran.

If it was a case of running a regular reliable service or providing road replacement transport, I know which one I would ridicule the TOC for.
Agreed but I think 67's are cleared for the whole route, the only doubt is the section PMS - PMH but 47's run to PMH on charters. Use EWS drivers and free up FGW drivers to cover the driver shortages and siccies.

With the amount FGW pay to the DfT I can't see them buying it as it would be very expensive. Don't get me wrong it would be good for capacity but journey times would be slower and it makes more sence for us to keep units. Just with more of them and decent ones, not the crap that the North doesn't want.

Would the journey times be much slower though, I mean, there's plenty of slack on some ofthe journey, and not enough on other parts!

I would still be genuinely interested to read your proposals on this , Liam. Confidentiality guaranteed , if thats what you are worried about.