Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: IanC on July 16, 2009, 12:34:38



Title: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: IanC on July 16, 2009, 12:34:38
Quote from: South Wales Echo
THE controversial M4 relief road plan was pronounced dead yesterday ^ thanks to escalating costs and a little-known fish. Deputy First Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones, who is also the Minister for Economy and Transport, announced Wales^ first ever integrated National Transport Plan (NTP).

Most attention was focused inevitably on the cancellation of the M4 project. Business groups have complained for years about congestion along the existing motorway, particularly around the Brynglas tunnels in Newport.

Mr Jones said that, five years ago, the cost of building the relief route was estimated at ^340m. Now, however, it would cost as much as ^1bn.

One element of the increase is construction inflation, but much more significant in the price hike is the need to protect the Area of Special Scientific Interest at the Gwent Levels and its most distinguished resident, the twaite shad. The fish is protected under European law.

Instead of proceeding with the new motorway route, the Assembly Government will upgrade the existing road network.

This will involve encouraging drivers on local journeys not to use the motorway. The southern distributor road south of Newport will be upgraded, and a seven-mile route which is currently a private dual carriageway through the Corus Llanwern site will be upgraded and opened to the public.

<snip>

Another controversial decision was to scrap plans to build a new access road to Cardiff Airport. Instead, the Assembly Government will provide a dedicated bus service to the airport, more frequent train services and improve safety on the A4226. An extensive consultation was carried out on a number of potential road schemes for the area, including building a new road.

The study highlighted that, while the proposed new road could provide benefits to the area, only a fraction of those benefits were associated with access to the airport. The consultation also raised significant concerns about the environmental effects along the proposed route and, together with the cost of the scheme, Mr Jones concluded this option should not be taken forward.

The decision was criticised by Vale of Glamorgan MP John Smith, who said: "Ieuan Wyn Jones^ announcement today is reckless for the future of the Welsh economy. This decision is economic lunacy. This is exactly the type of infrastructure project the Welsh economy needs to weather the current economic storms. The local planning authority, the owners of Cardiff Airport and the South Wales business community backed my calls for the immediate construction of the road because it would have created jobs for local people, improved South-East Wales^ connectivity to the M4 and opened up huge new business opportunities for Welsh-based suppliers to the planned Defence Technical College at St Athan".

It also emerged that Mr Jones had rejected plans to consider shutting some rural railways and replace them with bus routes.
As part of the improvements to public transport, passengers will, in due course, be able to buy through tickets covering both train and bus journeys.

The long-awaited train service linking Ebbw Vale with Newport is due to open in 2011.

Mr Jones said the aim of the NTP is to ensure a system of transport fit for the 21st century based on three key principles:

1. to meet the demand for enhanced mobility which will enable economic growth and improve the quality of life for the people of Wales;

2. to put transport onto a more sustainable and less carbon-intensive path, and

3. to use transport funding more effectively in light of increased pressures on public finances.

Mr Jones said: "Transport is a consistent thread that contributes to the success of many Welsh Assembly Government strategies. Newly acquired powers have given us the opportunity to use that thread to weave together the patchwork of transport provision across the nation, from roads to railways, and buses to bicycles.

But there is more we must do. We must work towards a de-carbonised transport system, where people are able to choose healthier and more sustainable modes of travel. That is why we are aiming to increase the number of people walking or cycling. In our programme for Sustainable Travel Towns we will invest in new, and link, existing walking and cycling routes. Across the wider network, we have plans to increase the provision of bicycle facilities on trains, at stations and in towns and cities".

Mr Jones said that in developing the transport system the Assembly Government would continue to support economic prosperity, especially when faced with the challenges of an economic downturn.

The NTP is set out in a way that reflects the four main movement corridors in Wales ^ east-west in the north, mid and south, and north-south. There are also proposals that are relevant across Wales. The proposals for the main corridors share two aims ^ to improve the reliability, quality and speed of rail and to improve journey times and safety on the main trunk roads.

As a user of the VoG line, I must say I'd be quite happy with that proposal to go ahead.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: IanC on April 09, 2010, 20:54:20
Taken from Today's South Wales Echo:-

Quote from: South Wales Echo
THE shuttle bus which ferries passengers between Cardiff International Airport and the nearby Rhoose railway station is to be axed at the end of next month. Airport chiefs say the service is no longer financially viable, four years after the Assembly Government spent ^17m reopening the station.

It is believed the decision to cut the funding is partly a result of the Assembly Government now pledging money for a new link bus from the centre of Cardiff. An airport spokeswoman confirmed the plug will be pulled on the project as of May 31.

<snip>

He said "This bus service is funded by the airport operator and not the Welsh Assembly Government. It is for them to decide if they wish to fund the service".

Now, since there's plans for a 2tph on the Vale of Glamorgan line, I don't really think stopping the Bus Linc* is a sensible idea, since the station is a good mile and a half from the Airport entrance.

South Wales Echo Article (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/cardiffonline/cardiff-news/2010/04/09/airport-shuttle-bus-to-be-brought-to-a-halt-91466-26205454/)

* Yes - I did know I put a 'c' there instead of a 'k', as link is 'linc' yn Gymraeg.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: welshman on April 09, 2010, 22:34:18
Rhoose has 160,000 users per annum according to the station usage stats.

According to my count, over 5500 services stop at Rhoose every year.  That's 17 per day in each direction Mon to Sat and 4 each way on Sunday.  Almost 16,000 users are season ticket holders.  Assume that some of the rest are locals casually travelling and you are left with, say, 140,000 airporters per year.  Half are getting on and half are getting off.

Even on 140,000, which I suggest is wildly overstated, you have an average of only 12 or 13 people per journey who want to use the airport bus.



Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: inspector_blakey on April 09, 2010, 23:19:44
It's not really helped by the fact that certain train companies, including FGW, don't actually promote that link, instead advising passengers to travel to Cardiff Central and take the X91 bus. And there is a degree of sense in that - why change onto an extra train for a bus link when you can just get on a bus at CDF and not have to change again (carting all your holiday luggage with you)?!


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on April 10, 2010, 00:22:58
The problem is that 1tph in not frequent enough to attract regular users. Travelling outwards, you have to allow for delays/cancellations, so could end up deciding you need to leave Cardiff two hours before your latest check in. On the return, the last thing you want is to find you've missed the train by 2 minutes and have an hour to wait.

The fact that the service is reliant on a shuttle bus doesn't help either (though difficult to see how that problem could be overcome), nor does the fact that the service calls all stations to Cardiff, so is hardly fast.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: anthony215 on April 13, 2010, 13:53:16
According to reports in local press this morning, the operators of Cardiff Int'l airport have decided to withdraw funding for the railink bus which links the airport & rhoose railway station.

I personally think they are making a big mistake as  have the bus to be very well used on some occasions and it certainly does carry more passengers than some of the other railink bus services i have seen.

Hopefully the welsh assembly may be able to come up with some funding for this as they want to improve acess to cardiff airport


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: anthony215 on June 04, 2010, 11:25:33
 Easyway have  taken over this service commercially now. I am not sure when it is during to start  but this should help some passengers who use the airpoirt railink.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 13, 2013, 18:53:51
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-21004266):

Quote
Cardiff Airport: Direct South Wales coach route to rival Bristol Airport

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65160000/jpg/_65160672_img_0162.jpg)
The Welsh government wants to buy Cardiff airport after a slump in passenger numbers

Troubled Cardiff Airport is facing the prospect of a direct hourly bus service between south Wales and its nearest rival in Bristol.

Holidaymakers in Swansea, Cardiff and Newport will be able to catch a coach to Bristol Airport, 24 miles (38km) from the Welsh border, from March.

The Welsh capital's airport has seen a steady decline in passenger numbers in the last five years. Last month the Welsh government said it planned to buy the airport.

The Greyhound coach firm, which already operates between Swansea and Cardiff, is extending the route to call at Newport railway station, and the service will end "just metres" from Bristol Airport's check-in hall.

Bristol Airport chief executive Robert Sinclair told BBC Wales' Wales Report: "We are delighted First [Greyhound's owner] has taken this step to enhance connectivity for people and businesses in Wales. This is an exciting new addition to the public transport options available for passengers in an important part of our catchment area." He added: "The new Greyhound UK service will enable people in south and west Wales to access the extensive range of destinations available from Bristol Airport."

Mr Sinclair said that the service would benefit south Wales' economy by allowing in-bound visitors to reach tourist destinations like the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff and Swansea's Liberty Stadium.

It is estimated that 700,000 of Bristol's 5.7m passengers came from Wales in 2011.

The journey time from Swansea bus station to Bristol Airport has been put at two hours and 45 minutes, while the stage from Cardiff to Bristol will take an hour and 40 minutes.

The Welsh government announced last month that it intended to buy Cardiff Airport from Abertis, its Spanish owner, in attempt to increase routes and encourage more people through its gates. The deal is expected to be completed in the coming months. A price has not been announced, but First Minister Carwyn Jones insists a commercial operator will be brought in to run the airport if the sale goes through. Mr Jones has been sharply critical of the airport.

Total passenger numbers were down 13% in 2011 to a little over 1.2m. Over the same period, passenger numbers at Bristol Airport rose 1% to more than 5.7m, with 700,000 of those coming from Wales. There was a further fall in the first half of 2012 to 440,000 from 558,000 - a decline the airport blamed on the departure of low-cost airline bmibaby.

Last week, the Conservatives in the Welsh assembly called on the Welsh government to prove its plan to buy Cardiff Airport would be good value for the taxpayer. But ministers defended their plans, saying they have public opinion on their side.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: anthony215 on January 13, 2013, 19:06:06
You beet me to it chris.  ;)

Anyway I have noticed that this article hasnt mentioned that services will also be serving Bristol City Centre. That could prove popular with some people especially if there is free wi-fi available.



Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on January 13, 2013, 20:48:18
I doubt whether FGW will be quaking in their boots. Greyhound's track record so far has been very patchy, having pulled out of the Glasgow to London and South Coast to London market the only service left is Cardiff to Swansea.  I was amused that on their website they have a whole tab given over to the Isle of Wight which, er, they no longer serve.

The centre of Cardiff to Bristol Airport via Bristol centre in 1 hr 40 mins strikes me as a bit of a push, especially in the rush hour.



Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on January 13, 2013, 21:12:40
I doubt whether FGW will be quaking in their boots.

I doubt it too. Seeing as both FGW and Greyhound share the same parent company.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: anthony215 on January 13, 2013, 22:23:11
It will be interesting to see how well this service performs. I cant really see there being much demand between Cardiff  & Newport with Newport Bus running their service X30 every 20 minutes. Of course I wonder where Greyhound will accept the bus passes between Cardiff & Newport


SWT did used to run the shuttle 100 through to Bristol at one time before they cut it back to Cardiff due to lack of demand between Cardiff & Bristol. Service 100 has always been well used between Cardiff & Swansea although it has been reduced in frequency over the years.

I think once electrification is completed to Swansea and a more frequent rail service offered between Cardiff & Swansea I can see there being some reduction in passenger numbers using the greyhound service.


My final point I certaibnly agree about the tight journey times between Cardiff & Bristol is certainly going to be extremely tight especially when the coaches get caught up in all the traffic along the M4 around the Brynglas tunnels and close to the jct between the M4 & M5


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: swrural on January 14, 2013, 11:46:32
@Anthony
I was thrown by 'SWT'.  You meant First did you not?  Looking up Greyhound UK's web site, I see they have withdrawn from nearly everywhere.  I would think that they have a good chance of extracting Lulsgate pax from their cars.  When I travel from the silver parking there, Welsh pax tell me that they get lost around Bristol as of course, as we are aware Bristol chose to push for Lulsgate (which it owned at the time) instead of Filton (which it did not own).  So Welsh pax have this continued inconvenience.  By taking the Greyhound bus, pax will save the car parking fee at Lulsgate (typically ^30 per week, so ^60 for a typical holiday).  Whether the service will extract from FGW is less certain.  A good, frequent and inexpensive service already runs from TM to Lulsgate.  I wonder if it could be better promoted to the Welsh market with attractive all-in tickets?  Airport travel is a massive earner for railway companies, where access is made convenient and cheap travel can be booked at the same time as the air travel.  It cannot at present because if one booked to travel from Lulsgate to Split (say) in August, one could not book a rail ticket to Lulsgate.  One can book one's car parking at Lulsgate silver parking or any other of the many choices there now.  This is a huge competitive disadvantage for rail, whether we are talking about Rhoose, Lulsgate, or any other airport.

The answer appears simple to my simple mind.  Allow pax to book tickets up to a year in advance, and make them available on any service outside the peak.  In other words, be commercial.   


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: anthony215 on January 14, 2013, 12:40:27
By SWT  I meant South Wales Transport shortly after it became part of the Badgerline group and then part of First Group before the name was replaced by First Cymru.

Still as you said It could be a sucess and lets hope it is and hopefully servies will be timed to allow easy commuting from Bristol to Cardiff as well as some later evening services since the last service from Swansea is at 18:15.



Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: trainer on January 14, 2013, 13:22:38
Both Bristol and Cardiff Airports seem to be on the wrong side of their respective cities for easy access for the majority of passengers.  Cardiff's rail link is a brave effort, but the very slow (nearly two hours from Yatton) hourly service and bus connection cannot compete with the car or the direct buses from Cardiff city centre.  Bristol's dedicated airport buses offer a good service if you are travelling from the city, but if I want to use public transport from Clevedon, it is a major exercise and only possible if I fly out or land within a restricted time period.  The taxis do a good trade. 

As has been pointed out, the main competition to rail/bus connections from Wales, the M4 is regularly jammed both around Newport and Bristol.  I think if I was advising someone travelling from West Wales to Bristol Airport, I would still be suggesting the train and bus from Bristol TM as long as they don't need a very early arrival.

Ah yes...South Wales Transport  ::) RIP. One of its former Chief Engineers lives nearby.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on January 14, 2013, 15:12:31
Airport travel is a massive earner for railway companies, where access is made convenient and cheap travel can be booked at the same time as the air travel.  It cannot at present because if one booked to travel from Lulsgate to Split (say) in August, one could not book a rail ticket to Lulsgate.  One can book one's car parking at Lulsgate silver parking or any other of the many choices there now.  This is a huge competitive disadvantage for rail, whether we are talking about Rhoose, Lulsgate, or any other airport.

One can buy a through ticket, although for travel in August that would only currently be a walk-up fare without seat reservation. Around 12 weeks out from the date of travel then seat reservations (where available) can be had. If there's no Advance Purchase fares then an AP can be bought to Temple Meads and a BRISTOL TM - BRISTOL AIR BUS add-on can be purchased.

There are similar through fares and add-ons to many UK airports that are not rail connected. The only disadvantages the rail industry might have is they don't promote them enough and they aren't routinely sold by the rail industry as a package with a flight ticket. But then the airline industry/travel agents will only routinely offer the 'airport transfer' and rarely offer the facility to book onward rail travel as part of a package. So it cuts both ways.

Through tickets/add ons to airports are there and will be sold if asked for.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: swrural on January 14, 2013, 17:13:10
Airport travel is a massive earner for railway companies, where access is made convenient and cheap travel can be booked at the same time as the air travel.  It cannot at present because if one booked to travel from Lulsgate to Split (say) in August, one could not book a rail ticket to Lulsgate.  One can book one's car parking at Lulsgate silver parking or any other of the many choices there now.  This is a huge competitive disadvantage for rail, whether we are talking about Rhoose, Lulsgate, or any other airport.

One can buy a through ticket, although for travel in August that would only currently be a walk-up fare without seat reservation. Around 12 weeks out from the date of travel then seat reservations (where available) can be had. If there's no Advance Purchase fares then an AP can be bought to Temple Meads and a BRISTOL TM - BRISTOL AIR BUS add-on can be purchased.

There are similar through fares and add-ons to many UK airports that are not rail connected. The only disadvantages the rail industry might have is they don't promote them enough and they aren't routinely sold by the rail industry as a package with a flight ticket. But then the airline industry/travel agents will only routinely offer the 'airport transfer' and rarely offer the facility to book onward rail travel as part of a package. So it cuts both ways.

Through tickets/add ons to airports are there and will be sold if asked for.

BNM, thanks very much, but I was aware of nearly all that, and with respect, this is precisely what I was complaining about!  I will repeat my point.  One needs to be able to book one's cheap advance rail ticket at precisely the same time as one books one's holiday.  So if a walk on ticket costs ^100 in August and ^40 now, one needs to be able to buy it now.  One can't.

Incidentally, I wonder if you fly.  Do you realise that I have just booked a return ticket to AMS for my wife later in the year (well end Feb) for ^75 return from Lulsgate.  (There were cheaper available but convenience was opted for at ^15 extra).

Try that on Eurostar!!  I read today that DB' Bahns planned service to AMS is delayed yet again (talk of 2015 or later).  What on earth are the railways playing at?  For having to change vehicles at least thrice extra, and taking all day, they should be selling advance return rail tickets to AMS for, say, ^50, not (typically) ^200! 

 


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on January 14, 2013, 19:03:13
One needs to be able to book one's cheap advance rail ticket at precisely the same time as one books one's holiday. 

Why does one?

I can understand if you booked a holiday abroad then you would want to know that you can get to and from the UK to the chosen location on the required days at the time of booking. But simply getting to the local airport for departure doesn't have the same degree of criticality.  We're booked to go to Italy in March from Gatwick, and it's only in the last month or so that I've sorted out arrangements for travel from Nailsea to Gatwick.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on January 14, 2013, 19:15:32
One needs to be able to book one's cheap advance rail ticket at precisely the same time as one books one's holiday. 
Why does one?

Well - I would certainly prefer to do my bookings all at the same time - I can know what the total travel price will be before I make my final decision, and I've not got to remember to come back to my booking 12 weeks before departure for a second wave of arrangements.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on January 14, 2013, 20:23:53
Point taken Grahame. Prefer (your words) maybe, "need" to less so. Point I am making is that the journey from home to the airport is usually not such a material part of your journey planning that it's going to influence your holiday plans.  I certainly don't need to book my ticket to Gatwick (or Bristol, or Cardiff to use their more contemporary names) nine months in advance, so it was that assertion that I was challenging.   


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: swrural on January 15, 2013, 13:18:48
Point taken Grahame. Prefer (your words) maybe, "need" to less so. Point I am making is that the journey from home to the airport is usually not such a material part of your journey planning that it's going to influence your holiday plans.  I certainly don't need to book my ticket to Gatwick (or Bristol, or Cardiff to use their more contemporary names) nine months in advance, so it was that assertion that I was challenging.   

John R
I disagree with respect.  Only a small number of pax are rail buffs,determined, come what may, to go by rail.

You do 'need' to if there is another transport method, in competition with what you are intending to book.  I read all the convoluted stories of booking rail tickets on here (I only joined the coffee shop recently) and it bears out my experience that rail companies seem determined to erect barriers where there need be none.  All the various options and rules and regs are *totally* off-putting.  (As for splitting fare savings - well!!).  I want to travel by rail and we both have senior railcards but the obstacles, we find, are immense.  If I asked Graham about visiting his hotel and asked about getting there by rail and got the reply - 'oh I don't know anything about that' I should be astonished.  I would expect him to provide me with all the info I needed to book the travel or at least as much help as possible. 

A leisure passenger needs to be able to book everything in one go and 'put it to bed' as it were; a package in fact and why package tours became popular.  If you sign on to Easyjet (for instance - as it happens, I refuse to fly with Ryannair) you can book everything you need to book in one go, unless you are insisting on booking your journey to the airport by rail in more than three months' time.  The rail companies should be a page of that booking sequence and one should be able to book it there and then, just like car hire, hotels, etc, as can be done now.

I understand the 3 month restriction is due to NR timetabling.  Well they need to change that - now.  How ridiculous; are we really saying there is uncertainty about whether NR can provide a track in 4 months' time?

I do not know whether advance rail fares are cheaper, the more in advance you book them.  Perhaps an 'insider' knows the answer to this - Ollie perhaps?  If there is a minimum fare (maximum discount) then either way, one should be able to buy tickets for up to a year ahead.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on January 15, 2013, 15:47:07
Only a small number of pax are rail buffs,determined, come what may, to go by rail.

Indeed, and when it came time to make arrangements to get to Gatwick for our next holiday that I mentioned earlier, I weighed up the options and decided to drive. Though fares didn't come into that equation, it was more the convenience given timings, not helped by the Easter block of Reading. 

Clearly we have a different view as to how we go about making arrangements for travel, so I respect your view. I guess it emphasises that different groups of people have different ways in which they access the rail system.

I agree with you in one regard though, in refusing to use Ryanair.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 15, 2013, 18:50:00
BNM, thanks very much, but I was aware of nearly all that, and with respect, this is precisely what I was complaining about!

Point taken Grahame.

John R
I disagree with respect.

Clearly we have a different view as to how we go about making arrangements for travel, so I respect your view.

One of the many strengths of this forum is that we can all 'agree to disagree' so very politely: thank you, gentlemen!  ;)


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 19, 2013, 15:07:35
Interesting piece in a publication titled 'Wales Online'

Quote

Could Cardiff Airport form a new UK hub alongside Birmingham and Heathrow?

Experts want expansion and improved rail links for airport owned by the Welsh Government

Proposals for the future of Cardiff Airport are being put forward

The team behind the bid to integrate Cardiff, Birmingham and Heathrow airports into a new national hub will today submit their multi-billion pound vision to the commission charged with investigating aviation capacity.

Source: Wales Online (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/could-cardiff-airport-form-new-5144093)


We shouldn't dismiss the possibility that, with improved transport links and sufficient funding, Rhoose could grow to rival Lulsgate Bottom. However this scheme has HS3 as a prerequisite - the first time I've seen that particular combination of letters and numerals - so I think I'll be riding on the B&NS to Radstock before it happens...


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on July 19, 2013, 18:32:32
The most recent credible study I have found into HSR to Bristol & Cardiff is Greengauge 21's Fast Forward (http://www.greengauge21.net/publications/fast-forward-a-high-speed-rail-strategy-for-britain/) national HSR network proposals.

As far as Bristol/Cardiff is concerned the proposals essentially consist of a new line from Didcot-Bristol Parkway, a new link into Heathrow and an upgrade of the rest of the route. In their words:

Quote from: Greengauge 21 Fast Forward national HSR network proposals
This provides the required capacity benefits and journey time benefits partially through the higher speeds but also through removal of intermediate stops in the fastest trains.

The western route to Bristol and Cardiff is listed as being part of Phase 4, to be delivered by 2041...

They also produced this report, (http://www.greengauge21.net/publications/great-western-conditional-output-statement/) in association with the Great Western Partnership on how a proposed 25-year investment programme on the Great Western Main Line would help enable high speed train services. This would include proposals to build up regional and local services along the route, one of which involves introducing an hourly TransWilts service from 2019.

Greenguage 21's own submission to the Airports Commission can be found here. (http://www.greengauge21.net/publications/greengauge-21s-submission-to-airports-commission/)

One of the quotes from the Wales Online article that I found most interesting was this one:

Quote from: Wales Online
Acknowledging the uncertainty surrounding the HS3 network, the authors have also submitted an alternative proposal.

This ^3bn option would involve investment in improved regional rail and road links in the Cardiff region and an upgrade and expansion of the airport.

Under this slimmed-down model, the airport would only have eight million passengers a year, not 20 million.

With the HS3 option, the backers anticipate ^4.25bn could be retained in the Welsh economy, compared with ^1.25bn for the fall-back plan.

Anybody have any details on what the "slimmed-down model" entails?


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: anthony215 on July 20, 2013, 19:58:58
The welsh government are launching a new express service running from Cardiff Airport to Cardiff city centre running every 20 minutes and operating 24 hours per day.

This new service will start from next month and will be operated by first cymru


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on July 21, 2013, 13:22:34
I presume with mention of First Cymru, you are referring to an express bus service, anthony 215?  :P


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: anthony215 on July 21, 2013, 20:38:18
Yes I am.

The route is expected to be similar to that taken by Cardiff Buses X91 between the city centre and the airport however the buses will continue down to serve Cardiff Bay


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on August 05, 2013, 10:40:55
The new bus service in question is the TrawsCymru T9.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 10, 2014, 18:15:57
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-25682391):

Quote
Express bus service for Cardiff Airport under review

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72205000/jpg/_72205854_cymru-cardiffexpresslaunch-bus&airport-july2013.jpg)
The bus service runs every 20 minutes from Cardiff to the airport

An express bus service to Cardiff Airport is being reviewed, five months after it was launched.

The service runs every 20 minutes between the airport in the Vale of Glamorgan and Cardiff city centre from early morning until late at night.

The Conservatives said the buses were "invariably empty" except for drivers, and the service was "unsustainable".

The Welsh government said the review, to see whether changes were needed, was always intended to be carried out.

The airport was bought by Welsh ministers for ^52m in March last year and the bus service is part of the strategy to reverse a slump in passenger numbers.

In a written answer, Transport Minister Edwina Hart said: "It was always the intention to review the service after it had been operational for a few months and the minister has asked Professor Stuart Cole to examine whether any revisions to the current service are required without compromising its principal objectives as an express service. Professor Cole is due to report back shortly."

The comments were in response to a question from Shadow Transport Minister Byron Davies.

While Welsh Conservative leader and South Wales Central AM Andrew RT Davies described the service as a "publicly funded ghost train".

"As a local resident I regularly see this bus, invariably empty except for the driver. At almost half a million (pounds) in Welsh Labour government subsidy, that's an exceptionally expensive service to support and on current passenger numbers is simply unsustainable."

"Reliable transport links are integral to the success of Cardiff Airport, but at present this route simply isn't providing value for money," he added.

But Cardiff Business School transport expert Dr Andrew Potter said such services were needed to convince airlines there would be passengers available. "Airlines planning cycles are such that they're not just going to start routes instantly," he said. "It's going to take six months (or) 12 months, to attract routes into the airport and, therefore, it's a bit like the chicken and egg. You need the bus routes to attract the airlines and you then get the airlines to get the passengers onto the buses."

"At certain times of day you do get more people on the buses anyway, because the flights come in in peaks and troughs, there are busy times and quiet times. But you can't have the bus service at the busy times and stop it at the quiet times because you've still got to use the asset somehow, it's still costing you money. So you may as well run it for a small number of passengers than have it sitting around, still with the cost."

Dr Potter warned changes to the service, such as making it available for people living near the airport could slow the service down and make it less attractive to air passengers. "If you look at a lot of other airports, they actually have a mix of services going to an airport, express ones that take you to the city centre and then more local buses, that then feed into that, and serve the local community."


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: anthony215 on January 10, 2014, 22:57:20
Not surprised to be honest with everyone. I have seen this service on a number of occasions and the maximum number of passengers has always been between 3 & 5 not counting the driver.

All this money spent could have been better used to improve the former service X91 back when it served the airport (No longer does because of the T9) including a full clockface hourly/half hourly service with early morning an late evening services with buses also serving Aberthaw, St Athan and Llantwit Major. The boss of Cardiff Bus at teh time made a comment in local press about why bother with such a service when you could improve teh existing service.

Brewers/SWT & Cardiff bus all tried running dedicated express servicees to the airport non of which were a sucess the cloest being Cardiff Buses attempt when they merged services X90 & X91 to have a full hourly service between Cardiff & Llantwit Major via the airport which inccidently was faster than the current T9 (Seing as it never went via Cardiff Bay) and passengers  could by a wide varierty of tickets.


Currently the only alternative is the railink bus & train on on New Adventure Travels  service 303/304 Bridgend - Barry and change for a service to Cardiff in Barry.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: trainer on January 10, 2014, 23:16:35
Having a relative who works at Cardiff Airport, I fear that the bus patronage is indicative of the much more serious situation at the Welsh capital's airport.  If there was not a national boundary between us, I suspect no-one would be suggesting Bristol and Cardiff should be competing within a relatively few miles of each other.

I did see four people travel by the Vale of Glamorgan line once (!) to Rhoose with heavy suitcases presumably for the airport.  But they were travelling from Llantwit Major to the west. On the other seven journeys I have made on the line no-one seems to have used the train for the airport.

I note First Greyhound appear to have a thriving business with coaches to Bristol Airport from South Wales.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on January 11, 2014, 02:25:49
Having a relative who works at Cardiff Airport, I fear that the bus patronage is indicative of the much more serious situation at the Welsh capital's airport

March 2013, http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/?p=2194 :

Quote
Cardiff^s passengers have declined from around 2 million in 2007 to just over 1 million in 2012, as many have chosen Bristol airport instead.  Bristol airport is now concerned that Cardiff would now unfairly benefit from state support. Cardiff was hit by the loss of bmibaby in 2011.  The airport^s board will try and get in a commercial operator and hopes to attract long haul and transatlantic flights. Only recently there was news that Swiss airline Helvetic will pull out of Cardiff, 2 years after the Welsh government spent ^500,000 marketing Wales in Switzerland.

December 2013, http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/flybe-cuts-services-cardiff-paris-6370182

Quote
Budget airline Flybe has confirmed that two routes from Cardiff to Paris Charles de Gaulle and Glasgow will be withdrawn with effect from January next year.

Not all bad news: http://www.uk-airport-news.info/cardiff-airport-news.htm

Quote
22.12.13 Cardiff Airport expects 20,000 passengers over Christmas
22.12.13 Ski flights return to Cardiff Airport after three year absence
21.12.13 First Minister: New airline 'shows potential' of Cardiff Airport
21.12.13 Aviation group celebrates as new airlines and routes launched from Cardiff Airport
20.12.13 New flights see more passengers at Cardiff Airport this Christmas
20.12.13 CityJet picks up Flybe routes at Cardiff
19.12.13 More new services including long-haul cruise flights from Cardiff Airport
19.12.13 Cardiff Airport boss: new routes 'encouraging'


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on January 11, 2014, 03:02:51
Also being doing some maths on the potential market size

Cardiff airport ... 1 million passenger per annum, 48 runs round daily on T9 ... if every passenger used those buses, there would be 18 passengers per bus.

Bristol airport ... 6.3 million passenger per annum, 97 runs round daily on route A1 ... if every passenger used those buses, there would be 88 passengers per bus.

Not totally fair - you have 18 runs on te 905 (?) also to Cardiff.  You have the A4 (19 round trips / how is that doing?) and the Bristol Greyhound (15 round trips?) also to Bristol.  And note - I have not allowed for airport staff, but then neither have I suggested what proportion of passengers might use the bus (and I can't easily find mode splits for airport arrivals via Google - anyone?)

I also looked at long term parking - see if that made a difference:
Bristol - long stay official, gate price, 1 week - 67.00
Cardiff - long stay official, gate price, 1 week - 65.50


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 15, 2014, 01:36:20
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-30050861):

Quote
Cardiff Airport flights scrapped by Germanwings

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78984000/jpg/_78984921_024335757-1.jpg)
It was hoped the airline would boost tourism from Germany

A German airline is ending its flights between Cardiff and Dusseldorf.

Germanwings told BBC Wales the summer service would not return in 2015 as the route "did not meet our expectations".

The airline is owned by Lufthansa - Europe's largest operator - and launched the route in 2013.

Cardiff Airport said it was in discussions with a number of airlines including Germanwings about developing routes between Wales and Germany, including Dusseldorf.

Spencer Birns, the airport's aviation and business development director, said: "The Dusseldorf-Cardiff route has operated successfully over the past two years as a summer-only service focused on bringing German visitors to Wales. The reports circulating today regarding the service for next year are misleading as we are in discussions with a number of airlines - including Germanwings - regarding continuing the development of services linking Wales to Germany for 2015 and beyond, which includes the Dusseldorf route. This is in line with good commercial practice."

Welsh Conservative leader Andrew RT Davies said it was "extremely worrying news" for the airport after the loss of flights to Glasgow.

The Welsh government has been asked to comment.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on November 15, 2014, 16:24:46
I think 'Cardiff' Airport is rather uselessly suituated in terms of other transport links, far from the main line railway and M4. How could it ever hope to compete with Bristol? Of course neither airport has a rail link, but Bristol is more centrally located within the south-west of Great Britain.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on November 15, 2014, 19:47:08
... but is still a long way from a motorway or main railway station.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on November 16, 2014, 22:54:05
I think the answer to the question "Could Cardiff Airport form a new UK hub?" is "Dim". As indeed is the outlook.

There are 5 flights tomorrow between 6am and 8.20am. One is a six-way code share to Amsterdam, one is a local hop to Ynys Mon. Bristol sees 16 departures in the same period. Political will and subsidy will ensure Cardiff's survival. It does not seem as though there is a queue of operators wanting to fly from there.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 17, 2014, 00:20:42
... but is still a long way from a motorway or main railway station.

Cardiff airport is 10.1 miles from j33 of the M4. Bristol airport is 18.7 miles from J23 of M5 and 12.5 miles from J18 of M5. J23 for people from south, J18 for people from the north.
I always check Cardiff flights out when going away but always seems limited choice.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 17, 2014, 02:36:16
... but is still a long way from a motorway or main railway station.

Airfields / airstrips that are / were near main roads and/or main railways in the Wider Bristol Area have included Filton, Hullavington and Kemble.  Is it more than a co-incidence that none of these has been / was turned into a regional hub?


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 17, 2014, 08:57:34
... but is still a long way from a motorway or main railway station.

Airfields / airstrips that are / were near main roads and/or main railways in the Wider Bristol Area have included Filton, Hullavington and Kemble.  Is it more than a co-incidence that none of these has been / was turned into a regional hub?

Surely it's just the case that whilst most people want an airport within easy reach, few people want to live near one. This means that established airports, even if they aren't in the best place (Heathrow anyone?) tend to be developed whilst new ones don't.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: BerkshireBugsy on November 17, 2014, 12:38:10

I'm not an expert when it comes to flight routes in and out of Cardiff airport but looking at Google maps it looks like the approach from the South East is mainly over the Bristol Channel. I would like to think that an aircraft landing at Cardiff from this direction would not be the cause of alot of noise if decending from over English landfall.

Looking at the land to the NW of the Airport there does not seem to be much in the way of concentrated development under the flight path under the approach to Cardiff.

Am I right in think that the runway at Cardiff is more suitable for larger aircraft than Bristol? I seem to remember they service 747-xxx Aircraft at Cardiff although I accept they will be lightly loaded on arrival/departure from Cardiff


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 17, 2014, 13:39:19

I'm not an expert when it comes to flight routes in and out of Cardiff airport but looking at Google maps it looks like the approach from the South East is mainly over the Bristol Channel. I would like to think that an aircraft landing at Cardiff from this direction would not be the cause of alot of noise if decending from over English landfall.

Looking at the land to the NW of the Airport there does not seem to be much in the way of concentrated development under the flight path under the approach to Cardiff.

Am I right in think that the runway at Cardiff is more suitable for larger aircraft than Bristol? I seem to remember they service 747-xxx Aircraft at Cardiff although I accept they will be lightly loaded on arrival/departure from Cardiff


I'm no expert either, but looking at it on Google Maps I think I can see the downside of its location... what it needs to make it a success is a fixed crossing roughly between Penarth and Weston S M. Investment like that, and a bit of political will, could form the basis of a 'Western Powerhouse' linking Bristol, Cardiff, Bath and Newport. Lundy Megacity, anyone?


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: chrisr_75 on November 17, 2014, 15:12:45

I'm not an expert when it comes to flight routes in and out of Cardiff airport but looking at Google maps it looks like the approach from the South East is mainly over the Bristol Channel. I would like to think that an aircraft landing at Cardiff from this direction would not be the cause of alot of noise if decending from over English landfall.

Looking at the land to the NW of the Airport there does not seem to be much in the way of concentrated development under the flight path under the approach to Cardiff.

Am I right in think that the runway at Cardiff is more suitable for larger aircraft than Bristol? I seem to remember they service 747-xxx Aircraft at Cardiff although I accept they will be lightly loaded on arrival/departure from Cardiff


I'm no expert either, but looking at it on Google Maps I think I can see the downside of its location... what it needs to make it a success is a fixed crossing roughly between Penarth and Weston S M. Investment like that, and a bit of political will, could form the basis of a 'Western Powerhouse' linking Bristol, Cardiff, Bath and Newport. Lundy Megacity, anyone?

The current fixed crossings of the Severn estuary appear to work perfectly well at the moment as everyone just goes to Bristol or Heathrow airports...Airlines and passengers just don't seem to be interested in Cardiff airport at all and it seems that is the viscous circle preventing further development.

The runway is indeed copiously lengthy, on account of BA having a heavy maintenance base located on the airfield, which handles aircraft up to B747-400 size. The BA Airbus A380 has also paid a visit, so presumably once these are commonplace in BA's fleet, they will also be maintained at Cardiff.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tim on November 17, 2014, 15:13:09

Am I right in think that the runway at Cardiff is more suitable for larger aircraft than Bristol? I seem to remember they service 747-xxx Aircraft at Cardiff although I accept they will be lightly loaded on arrival/departure from Cardiff


Correct.  The runway at Cardiff is 2,392m, which is longer than Bristol's (which is very short) but not that long.  It can only handle large a/c when they are empty.  As an example an A380-800 at maximum take off weight needs 2,700m.  If Cardiff became a hub it would need more runways and longer ones.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 17, 2014, 15:38:50
Interesting airport comparison ...

http://www.world-airport-codes.com/uk-top-20-airports.html


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 17, 2014, 17:17:27

The current fixed crossings of the Severn estuary appear to work perfectly well at the moment...


Actually they can be pretty awful, especially at peak travel times. They are certainly well below the standard required to integrate the economies of the Severnside cities.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 17, 2014, 18:17:43

I'm not an expert when it comes to flight routes in and out of Cardiff airport but looking at Google maps it looks like the approach from the South East is mainly over the Bristol Channel. I would like to think that an aircraft landing at Cardiff from this direction would not be the cause of alot of noise if decending from over English landfall.

Looking at the land to the NW of the Airport there does not seem to be much in the way of concentrated development under the flight path under the approach to Cardiff.

Am I right in think that the runway at Cardiff is more suitable for larger aircraft than Bristol? I seem to remember they service 747-xxx Aircraft at Cardiff although I accept they will be lightly loaded on arrival/departure from Cardiff


Runway 27 at Bristol - used 70% of time due to prevailing winds has a size/weight restriction for planes, so limited what can use Bristol. Runway 27 is one of the shortest international runways in the country.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on November 17, 2014, 19:17:18
could form the basis of a 'Western Powerhouse' linking Bristol, Cardiff, Bath and Newport. Lundy Megacity, anyone?

Except that Lundy Island is about 70 miles west of Cardiff.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 17, 2014, 19:25:06
could form the basis of a 'Western Powerhouse' linking Bristol, Cardiff, Bath and Newport. Lundy Megacity, anyone?

Except that Lundy Island is about 70 miles west of Cardiff.

Good point, well made: I've gone and mixed up Flat Holm with Lundy again.

Actually, Flat Holm Megacity works better - it's less likely to get confused with London...


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: chrisr_75 on November 18, 2014, 09:58:47

The current fixed crossings of the Severn estuary appear to work perfectly well at the moment...


Actually they can be pretty awful, especially at peak travel times. They are certainly well below the standard required to integrate the economies of the Severnside cities.

Wasn't referring to any congestion issues on the M4 (I find Newport is actually far more of an issue than the Bridges). My point was simply that a significant proportion of Bristol airport's business comes from S.Wales...

An additional crossing would be desirable, especially if it were to include provision for extra rail capacity, however, we certainly do not need the proposed tidal barrage...!


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 18, 2014, 22:13:36
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-30101740):

Quote
Long-haul future for Cardiff Airport, says Carwyn Jones

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79104000/jpg/_79104247_5hlxmcpg.jpg)
Cardiff's runway could be widened to land the Airbus A380, Carwyn Jones said

Cardiff Airport's future lies in long-haul flights, not competing with Bristol on closer destinations, First Minister Carwyn Jones has said.

He told AMs the airport "will not lose money this year as it did in the previous financial year".

But Welsh Tory leader Andrew RT Davies said there were "substantial negatives" at the airport and "few new routes".

Last week, German airline Germanwings announced it was ending flights between Cardiff and Dusseldorf in 2015. The airline said it was because the route did not meet its expectations.

Cardiff Airport was bought by the Welsh government for ^52m in 2013 and ministers have set aside ^3m to spend on developing routes next year.

At First Minister's Questions in the Senedd, Mr Jones said: "Bristol Airport has been very successful in short-haul flights and in business flights and it would be very difficult to take Bristol on, if I can put it that way, in that regard. However we do have great advantages over Bristol in terms of long-haul flights, in terms of the length of the runway, in terms of the 24-hour operation that we have."

He said there was potential to widen Cardiff's runway to accommodate an Airbus A380, the world's largest passenger plane. "So that's where the advantages will come for us in the future," he said. But he warned that trans-Atlantic routes were not a "holy grail".

He said the Welsh government wanted private investors to buy shares in the airport and "there is interest" in forming a public-private partnership.

Passenger satisfaction had increased "enormously", Mr Jones said, adding that Welsh ministers were "very optimistic about the airport's medium to long-term future".

A British Airways A380 superjumbo visited the airport for the first time last year, to test its ability to handle an aircraft of its size and prove it could cope in the event of a diversion.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on November 18, 2014, 23:28:02
Er, Cardiff has trouble filling the 19 seats of a Jetstream 31 to Anglesey, let alone an A380. The runway isn't the most crucial part of the infrastructure for an A380, which is designed to have much the same footprint and physical impact on a runway as a Boeing 747 - and we know they can land at Cardiff. It was the widening and gauge clearing of taxiways, plus double-deck airbridges and the like that cost the money at Heathrow and elsewhere. Modern aircraft generally are being made lighter, the engines more powerful, yet cleaner and quieter. Pilots calculate the TOGA (Take Off / Go Around) power setting on the weight, temperature, altitude, weather, runway condition etc, so as to use most of the runway. A take-off from Bristol, therefore, will be more expensive because of the shorter run-up than one from Cardiff, but not hugely so. Design changes will reduce the advantage of longer runways further in a few years.

The runway is around 280 metres longer than Bristol's, and around 300 metres shorter (and over 40 metres narrower!) than Filton's was. It is oriented 12/30, almost south-east to north-west, meaning a long leisurely approach over the Bristol channel in most case, and an uncluttered approach, just skirting the now usually quiet RAF St Athan's controlled zone, from the other end. It has a railway station almost on site, and is on the edge of a capital city. But it is losing its Germanwings connection because not enough Welsh want to go to Dusseldorf and even fewer Germans want to do the opposite trip. It is too far from London to be a budget alternative to a Heathrow flight.

Bristol has never tried to be a "hub" airport. It was brought up from its lowly status originally by the late Les Wilson, who took it first from loss to profit, then to a steady but sustainable period of expansion until his tragic death after 15 years at the helm. It has continued its expansion largely because of good governance and a sizeable catchment area, which includes Cardiff and Newport, linked by regular buses, as well as rail and the Airport Flyer. As the number of people flying from Bristol grows, so the number of people wanting fly grows, and the airlines are quick to meet the need. There is a critical mass, which is now leading to further expansion.

Cardiff has, in contrast, lost out. It was bought by the Welsh government. Its task force to promote growth was a committee of councillors, trade union representatives, and tourist chiefs, but no airlines. Whether that is the right way to do things, I don't know, but it has enticed Ryanair back recently. Bristol Airport continues to say the Welsh Assembly paid too much for the airport, at less than half the price paid for Filton for housing, even though it has the servicing facility for BA's heavy fleet.

An approach over water doesn't always favour the amateur pilot, many of whom visit Cardiff because it is easier and cheaper to use than Bristol. Disorientation over water has been the cause of many an accident, including the death of a branch of the Kennedy family. Navigation can be difficult - others than Red Squirrel have mistaken Flat Holm for Lundy, I am sure. Lundy has an airfield, Flat Holm does not. Lundy is for the intrepid and experienced only. It is around 400 metres of grass, oriented 06/24 and marked by white posts. The surface is described as 'rough', 'quite rough' and 'rough with rabbit holes and rocks'. PPR is required by phone, so the sheep can be cleared. I wouldn't.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on November 18, 2014, 23:35:45
PPR is required by phone, so the sheep can be cleared. I wouldn't.

Public Performance Rights? Why aren't the sheep allowed to watch?  :P


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: BerkshireBugsy on November 19, 2014, 06:35:58
@ftn thank you very much for your detailed contribution - most interesting.

I have a few questions about Cardiff Airport

1) someone mentioned there is a railway station nearby - where is that ?

2) regarding the use of the airport , when was it as its peak in terms of
A) number of flights per day
B) number of passengers per day
C) number of different routes and airlines using it as a base?

Has it ever been possible to fly directly from Cardiff to the USA ? I seem to remember this was possible in the past.

Of course a crystal ball would be useful here in terms of predicting economic trends and passenger demands in the next couple of decades


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on November 19, 2014, 09:02:17
I have a few questions about Cardiff Airport

1) someone mentioned there is a railway station nearby - where is that ?
I don't know how far away it is, but it is called Rhoose. And sub-titled Cardiff International Airport I believe. It is on the Vale Of Glamorgan line which runs between Cardiff and Bridgend via Barry. I think there is a shuttle bus from Rhoose station to the airport but the premier 'Cardiff Airport Express' bus (using vehicles originally intended for the Cardiff-Newtown and Carmarthen-Aberystwth TrawsCymru routes) runs to Cardiff Central not Rhoose.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 19, 2014, 11:31:47
I have a few questions about Cardiff Airport

1) someone mentioned there is a railway station nearby - where is that ?
I don't know how far away it is, but it is called Rhoose. And sub-titled Cardiff International Airport I believe. It is on the Vale Of Glamorgan line which runs between Cardiff and Bridgend via Barry. I think there is a shuttle bus from Rhoose station to the airport but the premier 'Cardiff Airport Express' bus (using vehicles originally intended for the Cardiff-Newtown and Carmarthen-Aberystwth TrawsCymru routes) runs to Cardiff Central not Rhoose.
It's right by the airport, but the opposite side from the terminal(s) - like Dyce.
Quote
Cardiff Airport is located in Rhoose which has a rail link connecting to Cardiff Central and Bridgend.

Trains run every hour from Monday to Saturday and every two hours on Sundays.

A shuttle bus service from the train station to the Airport is available for passengers, which connects with all trains, to carry passengers on the short journey to the Airport terminal. The journey takes approximately 10 minutes and there is a small charge of ^1 per journey on the shuttle bus.

Full facilities are available for passengers requiring special assistance.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 19, 2014, 15:31:31
Further developments, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-30107474):

Quote
Cardiff Airport given ^3.5m to attract new airlines

Cardiff Airport has been told it can borrow ^3.5m of taxpayers money to try to attract new airlines.

The Welsh government described it as the most significant step at the airport since buying it 18 months ago. It comes after First Minister Carwyn Jones said its future lies in long-haul flights, not competing with Bristol on closer destinations.

The last time such a fund was available was in 2006 when ^4m was used by the then privately-owned airport.

Cardiff Airport has had mixed fortunes under public ownership. It was bought by the Welsh government for ^52m in March 2013 and has invested about ^10m in improvements at the terminal.

A general decline in passenger numbers was halted, although figures for September showed a 7% reduction on the year. Earlier in November, the German airline Germanwings announced it was ending flights between Cardiff and Dusseldorf in 2015, following on from Cityjet scrapping a service to Glasgow. But Ryanair has returned to the airport after an eight-year gap with a weekly flight to Tenerife.

Speaking on BBC's Good Morning Wales radio programme, Welsh Conservative assembly leader Andrew RT Davies said looking at the figures, the government had "not done a very good job" since taking over the airport. "Regrettably, there's been a year-on-year decline of 7% in passenger figures. We know of a series of airlines that have chosen to pull out... and we know the most senior executive there, the managing director, left very quickly at the end of August," he said. "There doesn't seem to be much stability there, but what we need to do is make sure an airport works for Wales and the Welsh economy."

However he added he did welcome the route development fund announcement but said the government had been slow to put it in place. "For an airport to be successful, you need airlines to use it and you also need those routes to bring people in as well as take people out because obviously the more people you bring in that's a greater boost to the Welsh economy," he said. "Those people are either coming in on business or tourism and they're spending and creating wealth in Wales. It's not about the airport, it's about the airlines."


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: chrisr_75 on November 19, 2014, 15:59:51
Further developments, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-30107474):

Quote
Cardiff Airport given ^3.5m to attract new airlines

Cardiff Airport has been told it can borrow ^3.5m of taxpayers money to try to attract new airlines.

The Welsh government described it as the most significant step at the airport since buying it 18 months ago. It comes after First Minister Carwyn Jones said its future lies in long-haul flights, not competing with Bristol on closer destinations.

The last time such a fund was available was in 2006 when ^4m was used by the then privately-owned airport.

Cardiff Airport has had mixed fortunes under public ownership. It was bought by the Welsh government for ^52m in March 2013 and has invested about ^10m in improvements at the terminal.

A general decline in passenger numbers was halted, although figures for September showed a 7% reduction on the year. Earlier in November, the German airline Germanwings announced it was ending flights between Cardiff and Dusseldorf in 2015, following on from Cityjet scrapping a service to Glasgow. But Ryanair has returned to the airport after an eight-year gap with a weekly flight to Tenerife.

Speaking on BBC's Good Morning Wales radio programme, Welsh Conservative assembly leader Andrew RT Davies said looking at the figures, the government had "not done a very good job" since taking over the airport. "Regrettably, there's been a year-on-year decline of 7% in passenger figures. We know of a series of airlines that have chosen to pull out... and we know the most senior executive there, the managing director, left very quickly at the end of August," he said. "There doesn't seem to be much stability there, but what we need to do is make sure an airport works for Wales and the Welsh economy."

However he added he did welcome the route development fund announcement but said the government had been slow to put it in place. "For an airport to be successful, you need airlines to use it and you also need those routes to bring people in as well as take people out because obviously the more people you bring in that's a greater boost to the Welsh economy," he said. "Those people are either coming in on business or tourism and they're spending and creating wealth in Wales. It's not about the airport, it's about the airlines."

That's another ^3.5m down the can then, thanks to the WAG...why do we need a) to buy a failing airport with public money, and b) to prop it up during its death throes with more public money, when councils across the country are furiously cutting what I would describe as essential public services...

The fanfare about Ryanair returning is just ridiculous, I had no idea it was just a single weekly flight, from a notoriously fickle airline. The public fanfare hinted it would be something rather more widespread than one miserable flight a week!!


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on November 19, 2014, 17:56:04
PPR is required by phone, so the sheep can be cleared. I wouldn't.

Public Performance Rights? Why aren't the sheep allowed to watch?  :P

Sorry - Prior Permission Required.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 19, 2014, 18:09:02

The fanfare about Ryanair returning is just ridiculous, I had no idea it was just a single weekly flight, from a notoriously fickle airline. The public fanfare hinted it would be something rather more widespread than one miserable flight a week!!
Ryanair will set up a "base" anywhere that offers them good fees. They set up at Chania as an Eastern Med base a few years ago. The airport passenger numbers have since increase by around 1/3 from around 1.6million in 2011 to 2.1million year to date for 2014. Chania airports owners put a good deal price on the table to Ryanair, who now fly to 29 destinations from Chania. It also meant I visited my Grandad in October for ^40 each return. Before Ryanair there were once weekly charters from Bristol and Gatwick, and cost me around ^400 each return

I have a few questions about Cardiff Airport

1) someone mentioned there is a railway station nearby - where is that ?
I caught the train to Rhoose last time I used Cardiff and a sign up said the shuttle bus was no longer operating. It was about a 20 minute walk from Rhoose to the airport
There is a bus from Cardiff Central to the airport quite frequently. When I saw it when I was in South Wales in May it was transporting round air.


Title: Re: Cardiff Airport - recent developments, including road and railbus links - ongoing discussion
Post by: chrisr_75 on November 19, 2014, 19:09:54
I think my point was that Ryanair can't really be relied upon to stay put, they're very fickle if they don't get their own way. However if they make a success of it, they can be very good for business development as per your example. One weekly flight suggests to me it's a bit if a token attempt if I must be honest! The main problem for Cardiff is that it's just too close to Bristol and there doesn't appear to be sufficient traffic to support both.

I have also used the bus to Rhoose station from the airport and seem to recall reading in the local news a little while ago that it had stopped.

The bus to Cardiff Central is universally ridiculed locally for running pretty much empty for most of the time!



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