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Title: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Btline on May 17, 2013, 19:49:07 When are they going to sort out the mess that it the Cotswold line timetable?
There is still: too much padding, too many stops and too many Thames Turbos. Thankfully, I no longer have to use FGW services. After putting up for ages, I moved away from the Worcester area. I still have ties with the area, but Chiltern gets my custom I'm afraid. I really thought it would improve with the redoubling, but it hasn't. Electrification and the Reading rebuild are no excuse for not cutting at least 20 mins out of the timetable. FGW/NR need to get their act together. With Cotswold car parks bursting at the seams even at 6am, frustrated commuters are already salivating at the prospect of Water Eaton Parkway. This new station could decimate the Southern Cotswold line just like Warwick Parkway in the North! Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: martvw on May 20, 2013, 13:51:28 I, like many others, find it very frustrating that Worcester seems to be at the near bottom of the pile when it comes to improvements on the railway. Ok a little bit of money is spent here and there because something has broken or is wearing out, but no major investment. This is despite Worcester being a busy and growing city.
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: James on August 08, 2013, 17:57:32 Oh dear, i thought since the upgrade had been completed that there are now hourly even half hourly operations on the Cotswold Line. Better than what was provided back in 2004 and 2006 when there was nearly 2-3 hour gaps in service.
So what's the issue with that, Btline, unfortunately the GWML can't have all trains running fast, as there are stations that need a faster and more frequent service such as Slough and Ealing Broadway. Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Busboy W1 on August 08, 2013, 23:13:12 Indeed what is the problem with the current timetable ? Agreed there can be at times too much padding and dwell time but in the instance of service disruption or PPM this can be an advantage !
There are only three turbos timetabled on the Cotswold line Mon - Fri and two of which terminate at MIM with the other being 2E92 the 06:52 WOF - OXF up stopper !! Ok so you might find a Turbotisation from time to time recently for 180s faulting across the network. As for timings and faster journeys I'm afraid the answer is probably the re doubling of the line between Charlbury Junction and Wolvercote Junction until then I can't see any other way of making it any faster without reducing stops I.e 2Y94 15:32 GMV - DID. And before anybody starts on about the weekend that's a whole different story mainly with that turbo to Hereford on a Sunday. I'm afraid that a turbo is the only realistic option until the 180s have some money spent on them and improved like Hull Trains have done.There just is not enough serviceable HSTs around afaik. ??? ??? Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: stebbo on August 15, 2013, 20:55:16 And are FGW going to spend a shedload on the 180s when the franchise runs out in two years? Or on the HSTs when electrification and the dreaded bi-modes are coming?
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: ChrisB on August 30, 2013, 09:20:54 Not until the new franchise is issued, no they're not....pretty understandable that.
The 180s might be kept on post-electrification together with some HSTs, I reckon. 180s on PLY-PNZ runs might make the current busy 3car units a more comfortable offering....for example Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: stebbo on October 09, 2013, 21:29:25 The line is now getting so popular that customers at Kingham are having to park down the road to Bledington as the car park fills up so quickly.
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Btline on April 17, 2014, 16:33:43 There is still no noticeable improvement in the Cotswold timetable. With Chiltern's Oxford Parkway coming ever closer, I assume FGW are going to attempt some improvements?
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: a-driver on April 17, 2014, 18:11:19 And are FGW going to spend a shedload on the 180s when the franchise runs out in two years? Or on the HSTs when electrification and the dreaded bi-modes are coming? They already are spending a shedload just in keeping them running. If there was an alternative available the 180s would be gone tomorrow! Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 22, 2014, 18:12:36 From the Oxford Mail (http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11224941.More_trains_and_faster_journeys_on_cards_for_Cotswold_Line_stations/):
Quote More trains and faster journeys on cards for Cotswold Line stations (http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/resources/images/2090071.jpg?type=articleLandscape) A Class 180 Adelante train at Charlbury station on the Cotswold Line COTSWOLD Line rail passengers could see more and faster trains as early as next year, they were told on Saturday. Train operator First Great Western^s franchise bid director Matthew Golton told the annual meeting of the Cotswold Line Promotion Group that proposals for an enhanced service from May 2015 had been submitted to the Department for Transport. It is understood these could include additional trains on the section of the line through West Oxfordshire, provided by extending some services between Oxford and London to run to and from Charlbury or Moreton-in-Marsh, in Gloucestershire. Subject to DfT consent, the company hopes to begin consultation on its proposals shortly. Mr Golton told the meeting, held in Moreton-in-Marsh, that the aim was to improve Cotswold Line services in advance of the introduction of new InterCity Express Programme (IEP) bi-mode, electro-diesel trains on the line from 2017, following electrification of the Oxford-London route, and to cope with continued growth in passenger traffic. He said the number of journeys made using Cotswold Line stations had grown by 43 per cent since 2009-10, up from 3.6 million journeys then to 5.2 million in the past 12 months. He added: ^We have been looking very hard at what we can achieve with the [fast-accelerating] Class 180 Adelante trains and how we can get from here to 2017-18. We have drawn up what we regard as an exciting package. ^It does have faster journey times and it does have service extensions. It does fill some of the key gaps in the current timetable, but not all.^ And Shipton station will see a better spread of services on Saturdays from December this year, with mid-morning and early afternoon trains to Oxford and London and an early afternoon train back. CLPG chairman John Ellis raised passengers^ concerns about the use since last summer of a 280-seat Adelante, instead of a 500-seat High Speed Train, on the busy 3.52pm train from London Paddington to Oxford and Worcester, due to an overhaul programme for the HST fleet. He said: ^We understand the dilemma faced by FGW in having to remove a set for heavy maintenance, but people using this service are equally understandably angry with the conditions on board this train.^ Mr Golton said that the company had to take tough choices, as the HSTs needed to be given life-extension work, due to delays to the IEP project. He added: ^We very much regret the situation with the 3.52pm and continue to think how we might bring relief to that train, but it is a by-product of the situation we find ourselves in.^ The meeting also heard that FGW^s Cotswold Line stations manager, Teresa Ceesay, will retire in August, after seven years in the post and 15 years working for the company. Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: JayMac on May 22, 2014, 18:37:00 Well done to the Oxford Mail's correspondent for a totally accurate story accompanied by a relevant picture of rolling stock. Something of a rarity these days. Nice to see local journalists obviously taking pride in their submissions.
Even the name of the Cotswolds Line stations' manager was spelled correctly. ;) ;D Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Southern Stag on May 22, 2014, 18:44:16 I wonder if a better spread of services at Shipton means 180s are finally going to be used at Weekends. The current Saturday service is dictated by the fact that 3-car Turbos can't call in the Oxford/London bound direction, and the majority on the Saturday service is provided by 3-car Turbos. If more 180s are used instead a better spread of services could call at Shipton, rather than the current situation where Shipton calls have to be fitted around the times HSTs run.
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: TonyK on May 22, 2014, 20:05:11 Well done to the Oxford Mail's correspondent for a totally accurate story accompanied by a relevant picture of rolling stock. Something of a rarity these days. Nice to see local journalists obviously taking pride in their submissions. Even the name of the Cotswolds Line stations' manager was spelled correctly. ;) ;D Makes me think that reporter is either a frequent traveller, an enthusiast, a Coffee Shop lurker (at least), or all three. Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: John R on May 22, 2014, 20:28:09 Was indeed a valued and articulate contributor until he took umbrage at btline, also a contributor to this forum. So hasn't posted since, which is a great shame.
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Rhydgaled on May 22, 2014, 22:08:41 Quote the aim was to improve Cotswold Line services in advance of the introduction of new InterCity Express Programme (IEP) bi-mode, electro-diesel trains on the line from 2017, following electrification of the Oxford-London route, and to cope with continued growth in passenger traffic. My bold. While the 15:52 may be a 180, it sounds as if that would be an IC125 if at all possible and I assume there are still IC125s on some other Cotswolds diagrams. Then why, with "continued growth in passenger traffic" to cope with, will ALL the IEP trains for the Cotswolds (and other diesel lines on GW) be limited to 315 seat 5-car units? 5-car bi-modes will hopefully turn out to be a suitable replacment for class 180s on the Cotswolds, but they need some longer bi-mode units too to cover work that currently requires an IC125. Sure there are frequency enhancments planned for some lines under IEP, but the government's IEP proposals don't show any significant increase for other routes, including the Cotswolds. They could double up 5-car bi-modes to make a 10-car train, but I don't think the planned fleet is big enough to do that on many services.... CLPG chairman John Ellis raised passengers^ concerns about the use since last summer of a 280-seat Adelante, instead of a 500-seat High Speed Train, on the busy 3.52pm train from London Paddington to Oxford and Worcester, due to an overhaul programme for the HST fleet. Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Andrew1939 from West Oxon on May 23, 2014, 10:03:24 My understanding is that the present peak hour CL HST services will be formed of double 5 car bi-mode SETs that should cope with at least some fo the CL passenger growth. It will mean that most CL platforms will need lengthening and I understand that at platforms such as Hanborough, the existing platform will be extended from 2/3 coach length to 6 coach length and that when a 10 car bi-mode calls, it would stop with the rear part of the front half and the front part of the rear half on the platform. Additional line capacity should become available with the recast of the whole GW timetable necessary for the SETs to provide faster or, probably more appropriate, better acceleration than HSTs. Off-peak it has been mentioned that CL services will be formed of single 5 car bi-mode SETs that in many cases will be detached from a double bi-mode at Oxford. I wonder what would become of the existing Adelante trains. they would be fine for some of the far west services provided there are too many stops in service that the Adelantes were not designed for.
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Rhydgaled on May 23, 2014, 10:35:03 My understanding is that the present peak hour CL HST services will be formed of double 5 car bi-mode SETs that should cope with at least some fo the CL passenger growth. If I've estimated the diagrams correctly though, if the hourly Worcester services are all 10-car to Oxford there won't be enough units to run peak services 10-car further from London. Unless the acceleration boost from the IEPs is so huge the journey time reductions accross the GWML will save alot of diagrams of course. Also, I know it happens elsewhere but I still don't think portion working is a good idea unless the trains used have Unit-End-Gangways, which IEP trains can't and won't.... Off-peak it has been mentioned that CL services will be formed of single 5 car bi-mode SETs that in many cases will be detached from a double bi-mode at Oxford. Quote I wonder what would become of the existing Adelante trains. they would be fine for some of the far west services provided there are too many stops in service that the Adelantes were not designed for. Cardiff - Portsmouth? 180s would be a more-suitable for that route than 166s or 165s in my opinion, although 4-car 158s or a bi-mode version of a Wessex Electric (5-WES) or class 444 would be even better.Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: paul7575 on May 23, 2014, 10:38:46 The Adelantes are already booked to go to Grand Central, according to the latter's various long term track access applications, in which they refer to a full fleet of 180s, with their use of HSTs ending in 2018.
The inference is that they mustn't be considered assets of the GW franchise area... Paul Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Southern Stag on May 23, 2014, 11:58:51 Don't forget that Hull Trains are another potential source of 180s as it looks likely the line to Hull will be electrified.
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: paul7575 on May 23, 2014, 16:03:44 Yes, but other sources have also proposed that GC would want the whole class, as they have all sorts of track access bids in for additional services, so it isn't simply a case of using 180s to replace their short HSTs 'one for one'...
Paul Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Southern Stag on May 23, 2014, 16:50:45 From what I remember all the current track access bids for new Open Access services are from Alliance Rail Holdings who have a variety of different rolling stock plans, including new Alstom Pendolinos and Hitachi SETs.
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: ChrisB on May 23, 2014, 17:06:53 I suspect that the DfT has higher priority call on rolling stock - if they design a franchise that includes them, I suspect OPen Access operators wouldn't get a look in.
Have GC got a contract with the lessors yet? I doubt it.... Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Southern Stag on May 23, 2014, 17:12:16 No, but FGW's lease on the 180s expires in December 2016 and in April's Modern Railways it was stated that Grand Central have an option on the 180s if FGW is not allowed to extend the lease. Elsewhere it has been suggested that the DfT haven't shown any intentions of extending the lease on the 180s yet. This came up in an article discussing the TPE 170s, suggesting that there could be a similar situation with the 180s.
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: ChrisB on May 23, 2014, 17:31:30 If the 5 year Direct Award is approved/issued, I strongly suspect FGW will want these beyond that date as the electrification won't be complete then.
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: paul7575 on May 23, 2014, 18:38:21 From what I remember all the current track access bids for new Open Access services are from Alliance Rail Holdings who have a variety of different rolling stock plans, including new Alstom Pendolinos and Hitachi SETs. I wasn't going to offer an opinion on the likelihood of GC's applications ever being approved, but on the other hand I don't quite see them as big players in the new train market... Paul Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Southern Stag on May 23, 2014, 20:46:35 If the 5 year Direct Award is approved/issued, I strongly suspect FGW will want these beyond that date as the electrification won't be complete then. Yes but FTPE would quite like to keep their 170s after next year as their electrification won't be complete by then.Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: ChrisB on May 24, 2014, 08:25:50 That's a case of one franchise contracting snother franchise's stock - the latterawaiting confirmation of a Direct award when stock leases were dxpiring at same time as their franchise.
Slightly different here - open access v franchise & stock lease expiring after end if current Direct Award Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Southern Stag on May 24, 2014, 08:35:42 Yes, but it has been suggested that the DfT have as of yet shown no indications that they want to fund an extension on the lease of the FGW 180s. It's very similar to the FTPE 170s, FTPE wanted to extend the lease but the DfT weren't interested. They knew that Chiltern were taking up the lease on them.
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: ChrisB on May 25, 2014, 11:14:29 That's incorrect from comments i've heard from reliable sources. TOPE were unable to extend their lease as the DdT dragged their feet in the Direct Award.
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: CLPGMS on May 25, 2014, 20:18:23 Quote That's incorrect from comments i've heard from reliable sources. TOPE were unable to extend their lease as the DdT dragged their feet in the Direct Award. I am completely baffled.What is TOPE? I thought that DdT was something we used at one time to kill flies. What is all this doing under the heading of the Cotswold Line Timetable, anyway? I would also ask the question that if the Cotswold Line Timetable is "not fit for purpose", why are passenger numbers growing so fast on the line now? Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 25, 2014, 20:32:48 Thanks for posting, CLPGMS: your comments are noted - so I am looking at how best to move or merge some of the posts here, while keeping them in public view. :-X
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: grahame on May 25, 2014, 20:44:50 What is TOPE? I thought that DdT was something we used at one time to kill flies. I would also ask the question that if the Cotswold Line Timetable is "not fit for purpose", why are passenger numbers growing so fast on the line now? Let me translate from the Banbury Patoise into a more westerly Cotswold dialect ... TOPE is what "Trans Pennine Express" with the O represent the bore of tunnels through the pennines DdT is "Department for Transport" The question with a service being "not fit for purpose" .... question no. 1 is "what is the purpose?". The purpose at Pilning, and arguably in the past on the TransWilts, has been to meet contractual obligations. rather than boost passenger numbers. And even while it had the wrong purpose ("meet spec") we boosted the TransWilts passenger number by 29% last year. In other words, a service can still have really good growth in passenger numbers even if the timetable isn't designed (or fit for) caring the major flows on the corridor. Of course, it does help to have a purpose of "carrying lots of passengers" and a timetable that's ft for that purpose. The new TransWilts timetable could have a few small improvements on the existing resource, but it's pretty well tuned for the new purpose. And I would be disappointed not to see 200% growth this year. Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: grahame on May 25, 2014, 20:45:31 Sorry, Chris from Nailsea - have I made splitting even harder ;D
Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: ChrisB on May 25, 2014, 21:05:37 Iphone keyboard & thick fingers....
TPE & DfT.... Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 25, 2014, 21:10:53 Sorry, Chris from Nailsea - have I made splitting even harder ;D I'm now looking for a new 'dislike' button ... ::) Title: Re: Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose. Post by: Southern Stag on May 25, 2014, 22:11:31 That's incorrect from comments i've heard from reliable sources. TOPE were unable to extend their lease as the DdT dragged their feet in the Direct Award. TPE were unable to extend the lease without the approval of the DfT. The DfT were aware that Chiltern had agreed a lease for the 170s and approved it.This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |