Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => London to Didcot, Oxford and Banbury => Topic started by: ray951 on March 30, 2023, 13:11:01



Title: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ray951 on March 30, 2023, 13:11:01
This thread has been extracted and regrouped from several others including
http://www.passenger.chat/14689 - Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption elsewhere - ongoing, since Oct 2014
once the severity of the isse became apparent


The bridge over the Thames between Culham and Radley now appears to have a temporary speed limit of 5mph. This is adding about 4 minutes to each journey.

Hopefully that won't be lowered to 0mph before the work has finished. :)

Edit to add introductory paragraph - grahame


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ray951 on April 03, 2023, 11:47:50
Seems like I spoke to soon as the bridge at Culham has now been closed.

GWR are saying for rest of the day (3rd April), but I would like to know if that is realistic and is it really going to be longer?

Passengers from Didcot to Oxford asked to catch local buses.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 03, 2023, 12:07:52
Could be weeks apparently!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 03, 2023, 12:18:47
Could be weeks apparently!

Oops!

Advice on Cross Country from National Rail:

Quote
Urgent repairs to a bridge between Reading and Oxford means all lines are blocked. As a result of this, trains running between these stations may be cancelled, delayed or suspended. 
Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice:

CrossCountry
To assist with your journey, you may use your ticket on the following at no extra cost:
Avanti West Coast via any reasonable route
Chiltern Railways via any reasonable route
London Underground via any reasonable route
London Northwestern Railway via any reasonable route
South Western Railway between Bournemouth and London Waterloo

Interesting that no cross-availability on GWR ... So if I have a Bounemouth to Oxford advanced ticket (are there such things?  I must travel Bournemouth to Southampton on an XC train, but I can then use SWR to Waterloo, tube to Marylebone, and Chiltern to Oxford.   Not allowed to use XC from Bournemouth as far as they are running and the GWR to Didcot and bus to Oxford.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: nickswift99 on April 03, 2023, 13:26:32
Due to urgent repairs to a bridge between Didcot Parkway and Oxford all lines are closed.
Impact:
Train services running through these stations will be cancelled or suspended between Didcot Parkway and Oxford. All stations between Didcot Parkway and Oxford will not be served. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

There appears to be an attempt to get RRB going. Cross Country Trains look like they're being turned at Reading and Birmingham.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 03, 2023, 13:34:10
Half term means buses are easier to get hold of thankfully!  As mentioned on another thread it could be a closure of a couple of weeks.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 03, 2023, 14:09:26
Their is major freight through there too ...  diversion via Greenford, or via Cheltenham, or something else??


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ray951 on April 03, 2023, 14:16:34
Could be weeks apparently!

Oops!

Advice on Cross Country from National Rail:

Quote
Urgent repairs to a bridge between Reading and Oxford means all lines are blocked. As a result of this, trains running between these stations may be cancelled, delayed or suspended. 
Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice:

CrossCountry
To assist with your journey, you may use your ticket on the following at no extra cost:
Avanti West Coast via any reasonable route
Chiltern Railways via any reasonable route
London Underground via any reasonable route
London Northwestern Railway via any reasonable route
South Western Railway between Bournemouth and London Waterloo

Interesting that no cross-availability on GWR ... So if I have a Bounemouth to Oxford advanced ticket (are there such things?  I must travel Bournemouth to Southampton on an XC train, but I can then use SWR to Waterloo, tube to Marylebone, and Chiltern to Oxford.   Not allowed to use XC from Bournemouth as far as they are running and the GWR to Didcot and bus to Oxford.

Could that be because they are hoping to run Bournemouth to Didcot, like they were on Sunday? Although looks like only Bournemouth to Reading at the moment.

Even if they didn't run to Didcot, I would be tempted to catch XC to Reading then bus to Oxford, especially as the extra cost would only be £2. Going via London would be mad.



Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ReWind on April 03, 2023, 15:44:35
Their is major freight through there too ...  diversion via Greenford, or via Cheltenham, or something else??

Container traffic to/from Southampton (which makes up a large portion of freight traffic over the route in question) is being diverted via Reading, Acton Wells and the WCML to its onward destination.

Colas are sending their traffic via Bristol and Bromsgrove.  Not sure about DB yet.

Other traffic such as Stone traffic to/from Oxford Parkway and car traffic to/from Morris Cowley will cease for the immediate future.

This is all short term, quick fix stuff.  No doubt a more concrete plan will emerge once more details about the situation and longevity come clear.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 03, 2023, 15:58:01
No doubt a more concrete plan will emerge once more details about the situation and longevity come clear.
I expect a “more concrete plan” might be a big part of the fix for the Thames abutments too…


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ray951 on April 03, 2023, 16:10:48
Local press now suggesting that it will be closed for at least 3 weeks for temporary repairs.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: BBM on April 03, 2023, 17:05:31
From the 'Oxford Clarion' on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/OxfordClarion/status/1642904141495169024 (https://twitter.com/OxfordClarion/status/1642904141495169024)

Quote
The Oxford–Didcot railway line is likely to be closed for up to three weeks due to the failure of Nuneham Viaduct over the Thames. The speed limit was reduced to 20mph in January, 5mph last week, then closed entirely today, with the line said to be “sinking” into the ground.

One of the brick arches is understood to have undergone severe subsidence, causing a dip in the track. Monitoring equipment, installed recently, showed today that the line is no longer safe. All GWR and CrossCountry services between Oxford and Didcot/Reading have been cancelled.

Tickets are valid on Chiltern services from Oxford to London Marylebone, on Thames Travel X2/X32 buses, and on the Stagecoach S6 to Swindon. A reopening date has not been announced but mid/late April is being suggested informally. Full repairs are expected to take months.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 03, 2023, 17:23:58
From the 'Oxford Clarion' on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/OxfordClarion/status/1642904141495169024 (https://twitter.com/OxfordClarion/status/1642904141495169024)

Quote
The Oxford–Didcot railway line is likely to be closed for up to three weeks due to the failure of Nuneham Viaduct over the Thames. The speed limit was reduced to 20mph in January, 5mph last week, then closed entirely today, with the line said to be “sinking” into the ground.

One of the brick arches is understood to have undergone severe subsidence, causing a dip in the track. Monitoring equipment, installed recently, showed today that the line is no longer safe. All GWR and CrossCountry services between Oxford and Didcot/Reading have been cancelled.

Tickets are valid on Chiltern services from Oxford to London Marylebone, on Thames Travel X2/X32 buses, and on the Stagecoach S6 to Swindon. A reopening date has not been announced but mid/late April is being suggested informally. Full repairs are expected to take months.
I’m assuming “one of the brick arches” either means one of the land abutments or the river pier, I think there are only 3 in total?   The river pier is an arch structure along the line of the river, but I haven’t seen a view of anywhere else.  So presumably if it’s the river pier timescales will be more significant?

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 03, 2023, 17:39:33

Colas are sending their traffic via Bristol and Bromsgrove.  Not sure about DB yet.


Freight + the Lickey incline in the present day: what does that involve please, anyone?

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on April 03, 2023, 17:40:01
I'm guessing it's the abutments on the southern side of the bridge - that's where the NR work team seemed to be when I passed that way last week. But I may be wrong.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 03, 2023, 17:56:02
There's a lot of confusion over whether this is a bridge or a viaduct (and GWR used to call it Newnham, as well). The replacement for the original timber structure had steel plate girders resting on six sets of columns (piers, in effect), spanning the river and the ground on the Oxford side. That was replaced in 1906 by the present bridge, and three "piers" were removed from the river and replaced by one pier, since the bowstring girders are longer. The next support was replaced by a pier of the same design, leaving three of the old spans and two "piers" as the viaduct part. Lots of details about that is this document (https://culhamticketoffice.co.uk/bits/hidden-pages/nuneham-bridge.html), including how it was done (mostly closing one line at a time).

However, now that viaduct is made of three brick arches - as seen in this geograph photo (https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2057599). (I think getting to where that was taken was probably quite a struggle.) But I've no idea when that happened - and which bit is now subsiding?



Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 03, 2023, 18:32:12
Ah, the photo that stuving has found shows there’s a few more areas that might be the failure site. The aerial photos don’t really give you any idea that’s there still some brick arch viaduct in use.

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: eightonedee on April 03, 2023, 18:35:34
Now being featured on BBC local news - apparently closed for at least two weeks. Paul Clifton reporting - NR to make announcement tomorrow


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on April 03, 2023, 18:35:42
When I passed on Saturday, at walking speed, there was a haul road to the site and some people on/next to site.

At the moment I think the main problem will be the state of the river. River is above normal

https://check-for-flooding.service.gov.uk/station/7097 (https://check-for-flooding.service.gov.uk/station/7097) [NOTE: this is a live link so will change depending on when you see it]

and the current river conditions

Quote
Abingdon Lock to Culham Lock    Red Caution strong stream warning
Culham Lock to Clifton Lock    Red Caution strong stream warning

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/river-thames-current-river-conditions#current-river-conditions-updated-3-april-2023 (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/river-thames-current-river-conditions#current-river-conditions-updated-3-april-2023) which means
Quote
Strong stream warning board

When these red boards are displayed on lock gates, the Environment Agency advises users of all boats not to navigate. The strong flows make it difficult and dangerous.



Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on April 03, 2023, 18:37:10
Ah, the photo that stuving has found shows there’s a few more areas that might be the failure site. The aerial photos don’t really give you any idea that’s there still some brick arch viaduct in use.

Yes, on both sides, I think. You can get a bit more of a peek from below with Google Street View, which has the view from the Thames Path on it.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: BBM on April 03, 2023, 18:42:47
This was the main story just now on BBC South Today with Paul Clifton. There was some video showing that one of the two spans is definitely out of vertical alignment. He said that NR staff are currently not at the scene and there's no comment from the company as to the exact nature of the problem. He expects them to make a statement tomorrow.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 03, 2023, 18:49:09
Ah, the photo that stuving has found shows there’s a few more areas that might be the failure site. The aerial photos don’t really give you any idea that’s there still some brick arch viaduct in use.

Yes, on both sides, I think. You can get a bit more of a peek from below with Google Street View, which has the view from the Thames Path on it.

Ah, so it is not so inaccessible. You can also see the piers of the viaduct arches on satellite view - just, once you know where to look. But that is only on the north side, and it is the newest part of the structure, and the problems before 1906 were all in the river. So maybe when they went down "11 feet below the river bed to the Oxford clay" that wasn't enough.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on April 03, 2023, 19:09:07
Paul Clifton an hour ago https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC (https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 03, 2023, 19:19:21
What I see in those BBC pictures (however reliable that is) is that the transition pier on the north bank has dropped. That makes historical sense, if that bit was not seen as a problem in 1906, so its foundations don't go down as far as the one in the river bed. Since then, with the disturbance of having the viaduct rebuilt, and a heavier pier and bridge to support ...

I find it hard to believe that the water table that close to the river has changed much.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 03, 2023, 19:22:35
GWR has now been added to the list on the National Rail page mentioned earlier, about XC ticket acceptance following the failed Nuneham bridge/viaduct…

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 03, 2023, 19:31:47

I find it hard to believe that the water table that close to the river has changed much.

There has been a lot of gravel extraction and subsequent land fill in the last few decades, I wonder if this has impacted the water table.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 03, 2023, 19:49:06
I have found one newspaper reference to the rebuilding of the viaduct, and that's from a "last year's work" summary in January 1931, and is as curt as: "the north end of Nuneham viaduct, Culham, [has been] reconstructed".

From the Thames Path, you can see that the arches piercing the pier on the north bank were filled in when that work was done. But there is no sign on distress in the pier itself, nor what little you can see of the arch attached to it. So maybe that isn't quite so likely as an explanation. You can also see the bearings of the bridge, which are not exactly sophisticated, and how the skew on the bridge complicates the one on the left (west) side.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 03, 2023, 20:09:18
Thoughts with all affected.

Cancellations to services between Reading and London Paddington

Due to a person hit by a train between Reading and London Paddington all lines are blocked.

Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 03, 2023, 20:10:27
I've now seen a picture on railforums that I think is of the west wing wall on the south bank, and this really is distressed. It's just at the very right of the BBC's shots, and out of sight looked at from above. But you can see that the parapet pillar (supporting the fence rails) is decidedly wonky. A drop in that bearing would, of course, give the same angle at the mid-river pier. You can also see how deep the ballast bed on the bridge has got over the years! Do you think that was to compensate for this drop?

I do hope these guys have not become so specialised that NR have only got one wing-wall team.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: eightonedee on April 03, 2023, 22:17:02
Moderators - can I suggest that the Nuneham/Culham viaduct problem merits its own thread, rather than being split between two general delay threads as at present?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 03, 2023, 22:34:31
Moderators - can I suggest that the Nuneham/Culham viaduct problem merits its own thread, rather than being split between two general delay threads as at present?

Now 3 weeks according to JourneyCheck

Quote
Cancellations to services between Didcot Parkway and Oxford
Due to urgent repairs to a bridge between Didcot Parkway and Oxford the line is closed. Disruption is expected until 23:59 23/04.


If another of the mod team can sort this out as suggested - THANK YOU.  My connection keeps dropping and is very laggy ...


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 03, 2023, 23:22:27
Noting Euston to Milton Keynes closed over Easter too. Southampton to Birmingham, Derby, etc., passenger might do better via Bristol?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 04, 2023, 11:56:14
(It might not be easy to pull posts from at least two other threads into this one - if that's doable, other mods, please kill this one.)

Nuneham Bridge, the third bridge on the site, is a two span steel bowstring carried on two abutments and a central pier in the river, dating from 1907. On the north approach, the line is carried on several brick arches, on the south, an embankment.

The southern abutment has subsided over a period of months if not longer, additional ballast has been used to keep the line useable albeit with a speed restriction. At the start of April the abutment's subsidence continued to worsen and it was necessary to close the line completely. As of April 4th, a date at which it can be reopened has not been announced.

Mark

(Edited to correct the date that the current bowstring spans replaced much of the previous bridge. Wikipedia had this as 1929 so, corrected Wikipedia too...)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 04, 2023, 11:59:41
I've launched a new thread in the appropriate forum topic. If that doesn't help, mods, please do delete it.

Mark

Edit - You can find that thread ((here)) (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=27351.msg332585#msg332585) - grahame.

If I have decent connectivity during tonight, I'll back up databases and see if I can do some splitting and merging while the forum is quiet, but if the connectivity is poor I may have to leave it until back on dry land.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: oxviem on April 04, 2023, 13:01:10
Updated now to be after easter

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/passengers-advised-to-check-before-travelling-as-railway-between-didcot-parkway-and-oxford-to-remain-closed-until-after-easter (https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/passengers-advised-to-check-before-travelling-as-railway-between-didcot-parkway-and-oxford-to-remain-closed-until-after-easter)

Though GWR is still quoting the end of the day


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 04, 2023, 13:14:36
Paul Clifton has posted two good aerial photos to Twitter. Do they perhaps show that at the south abutment, the ballast in an indication that the abutment continues to subside, is retreating beneath the track?

In another, he says "...privately I’m hearing the closure will be months, not weeks."

Mark

https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1643216802032353281


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ray951 on April 04, 2023, 13:27:28
NR saying shuttle services are to be run Oxford -  Radley and Didcot - Culham.

Shame they can't run up to the bridge, where we can walk across and get on another train on the other side; that would be quicker than taking the bus  :D

And yes I understand all the issues about why that wouldn't happen.

According to Google would take 26 minutes to cycle between those two stations!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 04, 2023, 13:50:51
On the bright side, the Environment Agency's not yet closed the river navigation beneath the bridge.

Paul Clifton's images are quite stark: the first actually shows that at the abutment, the ballast is retreating beneath the track, in a short time it looks to have dropped by about a sleeper's depth.

Adding some straight lines to his second photo just about starts to reveal the extent to which the southern span has subsided. The weight of the additional ballast added to the span can't be helping at this point. One of the yellow lines tracks a railhead, the other, the ends of the floor beams of the northern span projected across the southern span.

Mark

(https://i.postimg.cc/X7wfd0kf/black-bridge-nuneham-annotated-scaled.jpg)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on April 04, 2023, 16:10:56
I've launched a new thread in the appropriate forum topic. If that doesn't help, mods, please do delete it.

I've merged the three (!) separate discussions on this.

Some of the interim topic names are still around and I can't see a way of changing them in bulk. grahame, if you have a moment (and the connectivity!) to do an UPDATE later, that would be the cherry on the cake.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: bobm on April 04, 2023, 16:53:14
Some of the interim topic names are still around and I can't see a way of changing them in bulk. grahame, if you have a moment (and the connectivity!) to do an UPDATE later, that would be the cherry on the cake.

Done  (that was the easy bit!)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 04, 2023, 16:58:09
I have found one newspaper reference to the rebuilding of the viaduct, and that's from a "last year's work" summary in January 1931, and is as curt as: "the north end of Nuneham viaduct, Culham, [has been] reconstructed".

From the Thames Path, you can see that the arches piercing the pier on the north bank were filled in when that work was done. But there is no sign on distress in the pier itself, nor what little you can see of the arch attached to it. So maybe that isn't quite so likely as an explanation. You can also see the bearings of the bridge, which are not exactly sophisticated, and how the skew on the bridge complicates the one on the left (west) side.

Thanks for this. The Culham Ticket Office site's copy of the article from the 1908 GWR Magazine's photo of the then new bowstring arches (both of which are good and level)

https://culhamticketoffice.co.uk/bits/hidden-pages/nuneham-bridge.html

That photo also shows what looks to be a couple of remaining spans from the previous viaduct still in use on northern approach - if that work was finally replaced around 1929, that date of '1931' combined with 'Last year's work' might be the origin for the erroneus 1929 date for the bowstring spans as given in the likes of https://www.thames.me.uk/s01530.htm

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 04, 2023, 18:03:21
That photo also shows what looks to be a couple of remaining spans from the previous viaduct still in use on northern approach - if that work was finally replaced around 1929, that date of '1931' combined with 'Last year's work' might be the origin for the erroneus 1929 date for the bowstring spans as given in the likes of https://www.thames.me.uk/s01530.htm

Mark

I think that sentence on thames.me.uk (which also says the new bridge in 1929 had one span) has been misplaced, and should be on the Appleford bridge page. The two bridges (or viaducts) are near-identical twin sisters, in each of their three incarnations.

The Culham Ticket Office site also has a GWR magazine page about Appleford (https://culhamticketoffice.co.uk/bits/hidden-pages/appleford-bridge.html), which explains that the work was meant to start in 1927, but was delayed until 1928 by guess what - flooding!. It was completed in 1929, suggesting that the more recently something like this is done, the longer it takes.

There are subtle differences in the design and working method, as well, though in both cases the bridge spans were rivetted together on site, with the girders placed on the piers first and then the cross members added in situ. At Nuneham, the outer girders fitted on the ends of the piers, and I think the middle one went in the gap between the two original one-track bridges (which may explain its different design). One track was closed and demolished and the replacing half assembled, then the other half was done. At Appleford, where the three girders are the same, they built the piers and the first half just to one side, with both tracks still in use. Then they demolished just one old bridge of the pair and finished the new one, still with two lines in use. So the track at each end has moved sideways, though I can't see any trace on the satellite views of that now.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 04, 2023, 18:23:26
Ah, that's another find, thanks for this.

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 04, 2023, 18:43:57
Big THANK YOU to Rchard for doing the lion's share of reforming this thread from disparate others which had content on the topic in them, and to Bob for icing the cake by fixing topic names.

Other topics include
http://www.passenger.chat/14689 - Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption elsewhere - ongoing, since Oct 2014
where posts on other infrastructure problems still "belong?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 05, 2023, 05:30:06
Now updated to "at least" 23 April.


Cancellations to services between Reading/Didcot Parkway and Oxford until at least Sunday 23 April
Following a safety inspection of a railway viaduct between Didcot Parkway and Oxford the railway has been closed to allow emergency repairs to take place. We are expecting this work to continue until at least Sunday 23 April.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 05, 2023, 09:47:15
The large pipe that looks to be 12-18" in diameter, mounted on the exterior upstream side of Nuneham Bridge. Anyone know what it carries? (Or carried, perhaps...)

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 05, 2023, 10:33:37
Looking at images of the bowstring spans at Nuneham, three things:

* No windbraces. (Many many bowstring bridges have these, tying the tops of the arches to each other)

* It's not immediately obvious, for the steel spans, as to how Nuneham's bridge bearings are handled. The image below is one of the roller bearings carrying the 1930s replacement bridges across the Avon on the Midland line at Kelston. Hopefully Nuneham has something that can handle rotation, as there's a bit of that going on.

* The steel spans themselves are in a state of neglect, with instances of full-depth corrosion on parts of the structure.

Mark

(https://i.postimg.cc/FFG083wz/midland-line-to-Bath-bridge-bearing-kelston-park-1600.jpg)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 05, 2023, 11:06:10
The large pipe that looks to be 12-18" in diameter, mounted on the exterior upstream side of Nuneham Bridge. Anyone know what it carries? (Or carried, perhaps...)

Mark

The obvious answer is water - isn't that sort of pipe usually a water main? Since the Appleford bridge has no such hanger-on, I guess it supplied the Culham loop from Abingdon.

It looks serviceable, but may not be needed - I expect the exotic machinery near Culham needs and has a big new pipe. This one might still supply the village, perhaps. I'm not aware of any accessible map of water mains, unless you've bought a house nearby or it was included in a planning application (in which case you are not allowed to look at it when you've found it).


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 05, 2023, 12:03:49
Most likely water, but could be gas. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 05, 2023, 12:58:47
On railforums this morning, there's quite the telephoto image. A thumbnail available and a somewhat larger version if logged in to the forum demonstrating why the bridge was starting to be referred to as a 'Ski jump'.

Also, some hints on Twitter that crossing this, from the perspective of someone driving trains, was a singular experience and even more singular should the arrival of a passenger train coincided with a freight train on the other line.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/nuneham-viaduct-shut-didcot-oxford.246310/page-9#post-6156274

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 05, 2023, 14:27:51
On railforums this morning, there's quite the telephoto image. A thumbnail available and a somewhat larger version if logged in to the forum demonstrating why the bridge was starting to be referred to as a 'Ski jump'.

Also, some hints on Twitter that crossing this, from the perspective of someone driving trains, was a singular experience and even more singular should the arrival of a passenger train coincided with a freight train on the other line.

The telephoto image foreshortens things (as you might expect!) and makes it look far more dramatic than it was.  As someone who did drive a train over it I can confirm it was just fine from a ride quality perspective at 5mph - I've certainly driven over far worse track than that in remote sidings.  It is quite a dip though and was packed with ballast on more than one occasion over the months as it slowly sank.

That's not to say it would have been any fun at much more than 5mph (or much more than 20mph when that was the speed restriction).  Having seen some photographs of the sides and underneath I can say that I am very much relieved it has now been closed, even if much of the damage wasn't structural!  Sadly I can't share those photos as they are marked 'Internal use only', so you'll have to take my word for it.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: bobm on April 05, 2023, 21:42:54
Having seen some photographs of the sides and underneath I can say that I am very much relieved it has now been closed, even if much of the damage wasn't structural!  Sadly I can't share those photos as they are marked 'Internal use only', so you'll have to take my word for it.

Thank you for giving us the “gist” of them.  Helps the overall understanding.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on April 06, 2023, 09:45:56
We've been travelling (by train) around Slovenia, Austria (for work) and Hungary (for pleasure) for the past two weeks. 

We left Budapest at 09:40 on Tuesday (April 4) and stayed overnight in Wuerzburg (we don't like travelling on sleepers or in the dark). 10:24 from there on Wednesday morning, expecting to get to St Pancras on the Eurostar at 20:00 and catch the 20:50 out of Paddington back to Worcester.

On the ICE from Cologne to Brussels, I power up the laptop and come here, only to find the bad news about The Bridge.

So, a taxi to Marylebone instead of Paddington.  Where we find that Chiltern aren't running north of Banbury, that only one out of four ATMs are working and that M&S can only offer Gin and Diet Tonic. Has the country started falling apart since we went away?

We catch the 20:40 from Marylebone to Oxford, a 4-car unit which is the most crowded train we've been on in two weeks. About the same level of standing as trams 4 and 6 in Budapest.

At Oxford (arrive 21:48) we cross the bridge to platform 4, where GWR are very sensibly holding the 21:42 departure to Great Malvern (which would have been our 20:50 from Paddington). Thank you! OK, we have to wait for the single line at Evesham, but we still get home.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on April 06, 2023, 16:56:43
Update from Paul Clifton https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1643986645233074176?cxt=HHwWgIDUyZjJztAtAAAA (https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1643986645233074176?cxt=HHwWgIDUyZjJztAtAAAA)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: bobm on April 06, 2023, 18:03:51
I have seen reports of the closure remaining until 9th June.  Then re-opening with a temporary speed restriction for another week after that.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 06, 2023, 18:56:09
Update from Paul Clifton https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1643986645233074176?cxt=HHwWgIDUyZjJztAtAAAA (https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1643986645233074176?cxt=HHwWgIDUyZjJztAtAAAA)

Summary from that feed ... until early June for a tempoary fix, then something more permanent; around half the freight trains are running, diverted via Acton.    

So -
* Remind me when the route via Acton is closed too?
* When does HS2 open to provide extra capacity for the West Coast line?
* Am I the only one that wonders why this wasn't picked up into some sort of planned engineering more mearured than a PANIC!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 06, 2023, 19:52:13
* Am I the only one that wonders why this wasn't picked up into some sort of planned engineering more mearured than a PANIC!

We know they were monitoring the subsidence of that southern abutment, and no doubt working on a plan. One part of the planning would be to decide whether it's just the abutment that needs to be fixed, or whether the bridge spans have such a limited remaining life they should be replaced as well.

The timescale for this is based on its rate of sinking. So when it suddenly drops by a big extra amount in a short time, the planning process is instantly running late. And you can't keep sending in a stone-blower to hitch the track up for ever. The amount of extra ballast is getting embarrassing - a rough estimate says it's about 50 tonnes!




Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 06, 2023, 20:13:21
Flooding was the key to the enforced closure IIUC.  Had that not happened it would probably have been OK until the repair schedule that was planned arrived.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: bobm on April 06, 2023, 20:18:24
BBC South Today showed a couple of photographs from the bridge.  There was also a quote that an engineer could get his arm into the cracks.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 06, 2023, 21:11:36
From the photos and other info I have seen in this thread my thoughts are the foundation of the Southern pier / abutment has been eroded by the river.  It has been seen on other parts of the network such as Feltham in 2009 failure of the structure can accelerate to collapse quickly even on bridges that are being monitored.

* Am I the only one that wonders why this wasn't picked up into some sort of planned engineering more mearured than a PANIC!

We know they were monitoring the subsidence of that southern abutment, and no doubt working on a plan. One part of the planning would be to decide whether it's just the abutment that needs to be fixed, or whether the bridge spans have such a limited remaining life they should be replaced as well.

The timescale for this is based on its rate of sinking. So when it suddenly drops by a big extra amount in a short time, the planning process is instantly running late. And you can't keep sending in a stone-blower to hitch the track up for ever. The amount of extra ballast is getting embarrassing - a rough estimate says it's about 50 tonnes!
 

If a renewal or major structural refurb perhaps in CP7, it almost certainly would involve a number of blockades; which in themselves are planned 4 or more years out. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 06, 2023, 22:39:46
It will be interesting to know more about the date of construction of that abutment, how it failed - and why it failed now.
 
Perhaps the structure of the abutment dates largely from the line's original construction - 1843. A photo carried by Wikimedia shows that it was showing signs of distress in 2018.

(https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rail_bridge_over_the_River_Thames,_carrying_the_Cherwell_Valley_line_07.jpg)

Since then there's been the continuation of the odd flood, and last year, unusual heat followed by unusual spells of cold weather - and as the structure moved,  the track ballast added to the span produced an additional wedge shaped mass that increasingly loaded the abutment. (It's been remarked that the railway has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to ballast depths on structures generally, though this is a special case...) In any case, this doesn't appear to be vertical subsidence - if the abutment is rotating as its foot moves in the direction of the river, whatever force that propels that rotation will increasingly be helped along by the mass of the bridge bearing on the abutment from above.

Speaking of bearings,  there's then the issue that as well as being wrung by being potentially twisted, if that span has only sliding bearings that do not allow for rotation, those may be at risk of damage too, and at both ends of the span.

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: 1st fan on April 06, 2023, 23:18:35
BBC South Today showed a couple of photographs from the bridge.  There was also a quote that an engineer could get his arm into the cracks.

Engineers really will put their arms into anything.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 07, 2023, 00:15:03
In this piece from the Oxford Mail on Tuesday, the story is by now familiar...
Quote
The bridge was closed throughout yesterday (April 3) due to emergency repairs to a bridge.

Safety concerns were raised after monitoring equipment detected increasingly significant movements of the Nuneham Viaduct, which crosses the River Thames between Culham and Radley.

This is despite Network Rail doing stabilising works in recent weeks.

Detailed inspections of the bridge are now underway.

David Davidson, Network Rail’s interim Western route director, said: “We are sorry for the disruption this has caused for passengers and advise them to continue to check before they travel.

“Safety is our top priority and our engineers our now working round the clock to identify what can be done to make this viaduct safe for passenger and freight trains to run again.
“We are disappointed that the work we’ve done so far hasn’t been successful and our efforts haven’t been helped by the wettest March in over 30 years. 
“We will continue to provide updates as we work to reopen the line as quickly and as safely as possible.”
(https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/resources/images/16631775.jpg?type=mds-article-620)

... but the picture from that angle shows some new elements. You can only see the top of the wing wall on the right, which has come away, but on the left you can see how badly cracked that one is lower down. Also, the river wall has been sinking, though more so on the left, and it has cracked.

This is another foreshortened view, making angles and depths hard to judge. For example, that signal is actually beyond the far track, and more than one bridge span from the end of the bridge.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 07, 2023, 08:03:22
Here are a couple of pictures of the damage - that's some serious structural damage by the looks of it!

I note this update too - Due to urgent repairs to a bridge between Didcot Parkway and Oxford the line is closed. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 30/04/23.



Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 07, 2023, 08:27:03
Looks to me that it had the 1909 bridge support, the blue engineering bricks, built on top of the original 1843 brickwork.  It looks like at some stage in the past its had a concrete added as foundation repair.   The Victorian engineers did use wooden piles to build structures on, wonder if this is the case here the wooden piles have failed 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 07, 2023, 08:37:12
Looks to me that it had the 1909 bridge support, the blue engineering bricks, built on top of the original 1843 brickwork.  It looks like at some stage in the past its had a concrete added as foundation repair.   The Victorian engineers did use wooden piles to build structures on, wonder if this is the case here the wooden piles have failed 

It does look like pile failure. I am not sure how they are going to repair that in two or three weeks.  a temporary support in the river doesn't look easy. Perhaps new piles on either side of the abutment and a beam between?

Whatever it looks like it needs an entirely new support. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on April 07, 2023, 09:36:32
Very interesting aspiration being voiced locally that the permanent bridge should have an extra deck for walking and cycling:

https://twitter.com/LeyNathan/status/1644006919328219137

Together with the new road bridge being built over the Thames, that would make a north-south traffic-free cycle route of some 40 miles, from Witney, Woodstock and Hanborough, via Oxford, to Culham, Didcot and Wantage. Perhaps Oxfordshire County Council should start thinking now about oozegonnapayforit...


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on April 07, 2023, 10:03:20
Whitchurch Bridge, which is a 44 tonnes metal decked road bridge over the Thames at Pangbourne, was reconstructed in 2014.  At the design stage it was established that the south abutment wasn’t strong enough, so a new abutment was constructed.  The geology and quality of the chalk was an issue, which may or may not be the same at Nuneham, but 3 X 900mm piles were required, sunk to a depth of 21 metres.

If new piles are required for a conventional abutment at Nuneham then the bridge deck will need to be removed to give clear vertical space for the drilling rig.  But maybe clever NR bridge engineers have another way of installing a new abutment, eg drilling piles either side of the bridge deck and then casting a beam between them, as Ellendune suggests.   


Edit to insert "metal decked".


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 07, 2023, 10:05:38
The photo from Wikimedia has some of the same section of wall (and the same crack) but in 2018.

Mark

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rail_bridge_over_the_River_Thames,_carrying_the_Cherwell_Valley_line_07.jpg (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rail_bridge_over_the_River_Thames,_carrying_the_Cherwell_Valley_line_07.jpg)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 07, 2023, 10:18:07
Very interesting aspiration being voiced locally that the permanent bridge should have an extra deck for walking and cycling:

https://twitter.com/LeyNathan/status/1644006919328219137

Together with the new road bridge being built over the Thames, that would make a north-south traffic-free cycle route of some 40 miles, from Witney, Woodstock and Hanborough, via Oxford, to Culham, Didcot and Wantage. Perhaps Oxfordshire County Council should start thinking now about oozegonnapayforit...

I like the way that a Clr makes demands
Quote
If we are getting a longer delay, the new permanent structure MUST have walking/cycling provision ...........
 and not the County Council must work with Network Rail to ensure provision is made in any new works for ...........

I suspect that NR will have with the cooperation of the Environment Agency temporary steel work erected to support the Southern end of the bridge to allow trains to run albeit at 5mph over the bridge to allow a permanent piled solution.  

One thing which has not been made known have the bridge spans at their end of life or do they have another 25, 50, 100 years life?  Even if they are nearing their end of life replacing them I would suggest will be not for 4 or 5 years just to get the designs, manufacture etc done


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 07, 2023, 11:32:55
[…]
If new piles are required for a conventional abutment at Nuneham then the bridge deck will need to be removed to give clear vertical space for the drilling rig.  But maybe clever NR bridge engineers have another way of installing a new abutment, eg drilling piles either side of the bridge deck and then casting a beam between them, as Ellendune suggests.   

There’s an example of rebuilt abutments at Ludlow, details in the linked article below, where they apparently piled outside and around the plan of the existing piers, the river span was also made slightly smaller:

https://www.apbgroup.co.uk/project/rail-bridge-replacement-river-teme-ludlow-1417/

For some reason though, I’d assume that for this sort of location, (Nuneham), local planners will be screaming about the replacement having to be identical to the existing…

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on April 07, 2023, 17:06:13
Some thoughts from MarkA posts
Quote
and last year, unusual heat
earlier it was said that the geology was London Clay (?, but certainly clay). The British Geological Survey Regional Geology; London and Thames valley says, in relation to shrink swell effects of clay:

"Widespread structural damage from these causes occurred following the drought in the summer of 1976"

Somebody with civils experience will be able to say if this has any relevance to a river situation after the 2022 drought. (shoot me down if needed)

A quote from the Twitter feed:

Quote
have a designated safe cycling route from Didcot to Oxford?

presumably not happy with the Hanson Way from Didcot to Oxford, or thinks us cyclists need a two-lane tarmaced highway.



Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 07, 2023, 18:05:04
Some thoughts from MarkA posts
Quote
and last year, unusual heat
earlier it was said that the geology was London Clay (?, but certainly clay). The British Geological Survey Regional Geology; London and Thames valley says, in relation to shrink swell effects of clay:

"Widespread structural damage from these causes occurred following the drought in the summer of 1976"

Somebody with civils experience will be able to say if this has any relevance to a river situation after the 2022 drought. (shoot me down if needed)

Ok I am a Civil Engineer - but not a geotechnical specialist. 

For the clay to shrink the clay the water content of the clay must reduce significantly. Given its proximity to the river - and assuming the abutment is founded below the river level - then unless the Thames had actually dried up during the summer (I think I would have heard if it had) then shrink swell is not going to be the issue here.

However, river valleys are complex things and I know there are worked gravel deposits nearby, so I looked at the 1:50,000 BGS maps on-line. By the river the Gault Clays are overlaid by Alluvium which can mean a whole mixture of things as the BGS says. 

Quote
Alluvium is a general term for clay, silt, sand and gravel. It is the unconsolidated detrital material deposited by a river, stream or other body of running water as a sorted or semi-sorted sediment in the bed of the stream or on its floodplain or delta, or as a cone or fan at the base of a mountain slope. Synonym: alluvial deposits. Normally soft to firm consolidated, compressible silty clay, but can contain layers of silt, sand, peat and basal gravel. A stronger, desiccated surface zone may be present.

In short without borehole data I would not like to make a judgement about what is going on in the superficial layers (which might go quite deep). 

I would hope the abutments are funded on piles down into the bedrock Gault clay (who knows) but if they were timber piles they might be failing.



Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on April 07, 2023, 18:31:22
All of this is very confusing for JourneyCheck.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 07, 2023, 18:36:17
Paul Cicton has posted a track-level photo. Too hard to extract on iphone, but here’s the link to his tweet

https://twitter.com/paulcliftonbbc/status/1644354152779198464?s=46&t=ygkNhLNzEU-LHuFemK3xJA


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 07, 2023, 19:02:00
An informative short discussion and a couple of images from 11 months back here on Linkedin (which will try and persuade the visitor to create an account/log in etc...) & kindly flagged by Hamish Harvey on Twitter.

Some evidence that the bridge deck is/was managing to push the tops of the wing walls out - and then also the wing walls showing signs that the pier was sinking/moving.

Mark

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/simon-deakin-woods-718aa2107_xeiad-networkrail-isar3-activity-6934582807071506432-dl3M/


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 08, 2023, 09:34:19
An informative short discussion and a couple of images from 11 months back here on Linkedin (which will try and persuade the visitor to create an account/log in etc...) & kindly flagged by Hamish Harvey on Twitter.

Some evidence that the bridge deck is/was managing to push the tops of the wing walls out - and then also the wing walls showing signs that the pier was sinking/moving.

Mark

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/simon-deakin-woods-718aa2107_xeiad-networkrail-isar3-activity-6934582807071506432-dl3M/

Does rather beg the question - how on Earth did Network Rail allow it to get into this state before action was taken given that the damage had already been noted and these pictures are almost a year old and even then showed some pretty dramatic issues?

I also saw Paul Clifton's pictures on Twitter - most alarming.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Oxonhutch on April 08, 2023, 09:45:42
In short without borehole data I would not like to make a judgement about what is going on in the superficial layers (which might go quite deep). 

I am a geologist, and I agree with you.

I too suspect the failure of wooden piles to account for the recent rapid movement.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 08, 2023, 09:54:47
An informative short discussion and a couple of images from 11 months back here on Linkedin (which will try and persuade the visitor to create an account/log in etc...) & kindly flagged by Hamish Harvey on Twitter.

Some evidence that the bridge deck is/was managing to push the tops of the wing walls out - and then also the wing walls showing signs that the pier was sinking/moving.

Mark

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/simon-deakin-woods-718aa2107_xeiad-networkrail-isar3-activity-6934582807071506432-dl3M/

Does rather beg the question - how on Earth did Network Rail allow it to get into this state before action was taken given that the damage had already been noted and these pictures are almost a year old and even then showed some pretty dramatic issues?

I also saw Paul Clifton's pictures on Twitter - most alarming.

I am absolutely certain Network Rail Wales and Western Region Structures Asset Management team had a plan.  It is entirely plausible the subsidence has accelerated faster than they anticipated, yes the state of this abutment has been known about, there are quite a number of things that perhaps needed to be resoulved, like Environment Agency approvals for river access, land owner access (for site access) railway possessions / blockades; not to mention the design of the solution.  

NR Assets teams are not large in numbers of people, they are reliant on contractors who are managed by the Capital or Works Delivery organisations.  It could be argued why NR does not have own in-house expertise to do all this, its down to how the railways were privatised and the governance placed on it by the DfT and ORR
    


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 08, 2023, 10:16:02
As discussed elsewhere (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=27227.msg331373#msg331373) there are other (probably many other) structures that appear long overdue for maintenance. I wouldn’t want the job of trying to guess which one was going to cause problems next…


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 08, 2023, 10:33:51
As discussed elsewhere (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=27227.msg331373#msg331373) there are other (probably many other) structures that appear long overdue for maintenance. I wouldn’t want the job of trying to guess which one was going to cause problems next…

Quote from a driver (with respect to Paul Clifton's pictures) "it’s looked pretty much like that for the last few months, with a steadily reducing speed restriction (90-50-20-5)"

Here's the view from space............


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 08, 2023, 11:04:11
Here's the view from space............

I think somebody has attached a comedy ‘hall of mirrors’ lens to that camera.

This is what it looked like three weeks ago without distortion from above or foreshortening from a telephoto lens.  Rather less dramatic.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 08, 2023, 11:10:28
For the record, JourneyCheck has added a week since I last looked ...
Quote
Due to urgent repairs to a bridge between Didcot Parkway and Oxford the line is closed. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 30/04/23.
but still misses the extra text on the end "and probably for some time beyond".


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 08, 2023, 18:22:42
There’s an Environment Agency closure notice for the southern span, lasts for a month, it mentions a pontoon will be present under the bridge, navigation limited to the northern span:

Quote
This restriction is for initial works to be taken under the south railway arch prior to further bridge repairs, during the overall repair of the bridge abutment.

During this time there will be a restricted river under the southern arch of the railway bridge. Caution is to be taken by boat masters when travelling via northern arch route, as this will be two-way traffic, and masters must take note of any instructions given by staff as to navigation past this point.

A pontoon will be moved into position to enable works to be taken from beneath the railway bridge in the channel. This will completely obstruct the southern arch during works. Subsequently the pontoon will be removed to a safe mooring when work is finished.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nuneham-railway-viaduct-repairs-2023-river-restriction-notice/nuneham-railway-viaduct-repairs-2023-river-restriction-notice



Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 08, 2023, 18:49:40
This is what it looked like three weeks ago without distortion from above or foreshortening from a telephoto lens.  Rather less dramatic.

That depends what you were looking for. In terms of estimating the vertical movement since (1) the bridge was built and (2) whenever the track was last levelled, there is not so much difference. I make the first answer about half a metre, and the second at least 10 cm (but neither is meant to be closer than +/- 30% at best).

Presumably Simon Deakin-Woods' picture, of 10 months ago, was before that last visit from a stone-blower, and I'll be returning to what that shows shortly.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 08, 2023, 19:46:18
This picture was in the Oxford Mail, but credited to Network Rail.
(https://i2-prod.oxfordshirelive.co.uk/incoming/article8335309.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/2_FtLl-kAXwAMgG4F.jpg)

It shows two "long-range stone-suckers", and the pipes lead to one of those vacuum excavation trucks. Deballasting isn't really evidence of what the planned work is, as it's the first step in most possible plans.

There's another picture of just to the right of that (https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/pxl_20230407_130936696-jpg.132514/), in railforums, that can be compared with the one we had from Linked-In.

You can't see much of the wing wall (shown by the BBC or in post #63), but you can see a steep slope down in the top of the embankment. The abutment's movement has led to shear strain in the soil over about three metres.

One the right, the "bearing" block sits on the abutment wall, while at the other side there is a column of brickwork so the bearing sits forward of the wall. That must be to do with the skew of the bridge; my guess is that the abutment wall turned out to be not parallel to the mid-river pier, and this gets over that problem. The size of that column does suggest that supporting the weight of the bridge was not a big deal, for the 1906 designers.

The left wing wall has failed in shear, but the vertical movement across it is less than two courses (20 cm) so well short of the full distance. But a lot of the outer half has been patched or even rebuilt. So I wonder if that got so bad that major reconstruction was needed, and more than once. When the brickwork is intact, with good strong mortar and engineering bricks, it can provide significant support to the abutment. Once it fails it can't, so that may be one reason for the "sudden" burst of subsidence recently.

If flooding is relevant, then like ellendune I don't see how that can have much impact under the abutment (and below the water table). Surely it is the embankment that is likely to be destabilised most by a thorough soaking. And it does take significant shear stress to produce the observed shear strain in settled soil, which is another upward supporting force for the abutment. Soggy soil is more mobile, so a lot of the supporting force disappears. In combination, the total reduction in upward force could explain the extra and rapid subsidence recently.

Incidentally, what looks like horizontal shear between the brick courses isn't due to any extra cause, it's just how shear works. The internal bricks feel much the same forces whether the shear is applied to the sides or the top and bottom. There's a more complicated, and rigorous, explanation of all this but it means resorting to tensors ...


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Oxonhutch on April 08, 2023, 21:00:40
At least with bricks, it is simple shear  ;)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 10, 2023, 15:48:01
The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/reading-oxford-network-rail-bridge-b2317072.html)

Quote
Engineers have spent the weekend examining the structure and, on Easter Monday morning, Network Rail announced: “Disruption between Reading and Oxford is expected until at least the end of the day on Wednesday 31 May.”


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 10, 2023, 16:21:29
The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/reading-oxford-network-rail-bridge-b2317072.html)

Quote
Engineers have spent the weekend examining the structure and, on Easter Monday morning, Network Rail announced: “Disruption between Reading and Oxford is expected until at least the end of the day on Wednesday 31 May.”

The Independent seems to have misunderstood what "a lot of movement" in the bridge means:
Quote
Main rail line to close until June due to a wobbly bridge

Passengers between the north of England and the South Coast are being advised to travel via Bristol or London instead


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: TonyN on April 10, 2023, 17:38:40
National Rail Enquires now saying 9th June.

Quote
Disruption between Reading and Oxford is expected until at least the end of the day on Friday 9 June.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: bobm on April 10, 2023, 20:11:58
National Rail Enquires now saying 9th June.

Quote
Disruption between Reading and Oxford is expected until at least the end of the day on Friday 9 June.

Only a matter of time before some “clever” journalist works out that covers Easter, the May Day bank holiday, the Coronation weekend and the late Spring bank holiday.   ;D


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 10, 2023, 20:29:31
National Rail Enquires now saying 9th June.

Quote
Disruption between Reading and Oxford is expected until at least the end of the day on Friday 9 June.

Only a matter of time before some “clever” journalist works out that covers Easter, the May Day bank holiday, the Coronation weekend and the late Spring bank holiday.   ;D

I am sure that even now (if not already!) GWR & NR are creating imaginative contingency plans.......particularly for the Coronation weekend......


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: froome on April 11, 2023, 09:27:52
The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/reading-oxford-network-rail-bridge-b2317072.html)

Quote
Engineers have spent the weekend examining the structure and, on Easter Monday morning, Network Rail announced: “Disruption between Reading and Oxford is expected until at least the end of the day on Wednesday 31 May.”

The Independent seems to have misunderstood what "a lot of movement" in the bridge means:
Quote
Main rail line to close until June due to a wobbly bridge

Passengers between the north of England and the South Coast are being advised to travel via Bristol or London instead

Given how long this line is going to be closed, surely it would be better to add some extra services from Southampton travelling up via the Trans Wilts line to Swindon and then along the line to Cheltenham. Expecting people to divert a long way west or east to Bristol and London, where there are huge numbers of travellers and very complex movements, is a recipe for ensuring they don't ever travel by train again.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 11, 2023, 09:59:09
Given how long this line is going to be closed, surely it would be better to add some extra services from Southampton travelling up via the Trans Wilts line to Swindon and then along the line to Cheltenham. Expecting people to divert a long way west or east to Bristol and London, where there are huge numbers of travellers and very complex movements, is a recipe for ensuring they don't ever travel by train again.

I know I'm a great supporter of using the TransWilts for diversions, but can I please promote ... Stations from Bournemouth to Reading as "normal" then Didcot, Swindon, Cheltenham Spa, Worcestershire Parkway, before resuming regular route at Birmingham New Street.    Or as an alternative - Reading, then via South Greenford to Banbury where normal route is resumed?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 11, 2023, 10:16:41
In an article released today, the New Civil Engineer web site no less... (may or may not paywall itself) gives a very optimistic date to reopen as 'The end of April'... that's certainly 'by june the ninth' but I'm not sure that's what Network Rail meant in their own statement on the opening date at the weekend.

Mark

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/reopening-hopes-for-safety-concern-nuneham-viaduct-shift-to-end-of-april-as-investigations-continue-11-04-2023/


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: TonyN on April 11, 2023, 17:39:41
Graham's suggestion

Quote
Stations from Bournemouth to Reading as "normal" then Didcot, Swindon, Cheltenham Spa, Worcestershire Parkway, before resuming regular route at Birmingham New Street.

Sounds a a lot better than National Rail Enquires suggestion.

Quote
Customers travelling between Worcestershire Parkway / Pershore / Evesham and London should consider travelling via Bristol Parkway or Birmingham.

Normally if I leave Pershore at 07:44 I would get to Paddington at around 09:50

National Rail Enquires tells me that leaving after 07:00 the best I can do via Bristol Parkway is:

08:48    Pershore [PSH] - Worcestershire Parkway [WOP] 08:53 0h 05m

08:58    Worcestershire Parkway [WOP] - Cheltenham Spa [CNM] 09:14 0h 16m
   
09:32    Cheltenham Spa [CNM] - Bristol Parkway [BPW] 10:00 0h 28m
   
10:24    Bristol Parkway [BPW]- London Paddington [PAD] 11:44 1h 20m

So nearly 2 Hours later.

Via New Street to Euston is a bit better.

08:03    Pershore [PSH]- Worcestershire Parkway [WOP]08:08 0h 05m    

08:14    Worcestershire Parkway [WOP]- Birmingham New Street [BHM]08:45 0h 31m    

09:17    Birmingham New Street [BHM]- London Euston [EUS] 10:54 1h 37m

Only one hour late.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: eightonedee on April 11, 2023, 18:48:56
I know it is easy for us armchair railway controllers to make suggestions without knowledge of all the relevant factors, but wouldn't it be better to introduce an emergency timetable, combining the Swindon (or Paddington) - Cheltenham and Cheltenham - Worcester and beyond services instead?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 11, 2023, 18:55:47
GWR are saying that planners can only be updated to this Friday currently & the fault is being worked on.

As are services & timetables beyond Friday. It’s still a liquid situation. How about cutting the poor train planners a tad of slack?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 11, 2023, 21:04:23
CrossCountry seem to have decided that it’s best to halve the service northbound from Oxford, where they are currently starting of course, to once every two hours.  :(


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 11, 2023, 21:25:22
In order to connect with the service up from the South Coast that tuns to Didcot. By the tie the RRS reaches Oxford, the northbound leaves.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 12, 2023, 06:38:28
In order to connect with the service up from the South Coast that tuns to Didcot. By the tie the RRS reaches Oxford, the northbound leaves.

Was that in response to my message?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 12, 2023, 07:01:56
In addition I guess, to give context that XC see their service as a South Coast service, not just Oxford & north of


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 12, 2023, 09:49:52
In addition I guess, to give context that XC see their service as a South Coast service, not just Oxford & north of


I have split my thoughts into a separate thread at http://www.passenger.chat/27374 looking at how thorough journeys work over bustituted sections in Europe (where the train often waits) and in the UK (where the train often sticks to schedule, even if it means long waits for through passengers)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on April 12, 2023, 16:59:10
https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-engineers-work-around-the-clock-to-repair-nuneham-viaduct-with-the-line-expected-to-be-closed-until-early-june (https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-engineers-work-around-the-clock-to-repair-nuneham-viaduct-with-the-line-expected-to-be-closed-until-early-june)

Sounds like they are going to do it once and have done with it, as opposed to a temporary fix. Although I might have misunderstood it.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 12, 2023, 17:26:27
https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-engineers-work-around-the-clock-to-repair-nuneham-viaduct-with-the-line-expected-to-be-closed-until-early-june (https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-engineers-work-around-the-clock-to-repair-nuneham-viaduct-with-the-line-expected-to-be-closed-until-early-june)

Sounds like they are going to do it once and have done with it, as opposed to a temporary fix. Although I might have misunderstood it.

That's my reading too. After a lot about how they knew what was going on all the time, honest squire, and tried squirting some kind of glue (polymers, I gather) under the abutment but it still suddenly dropped a whole load more, this is the plan:
Quote
Engineers have been working around the clock since the line was closed and are now working to replace the southern support structure with a new one, which will provide a long-term fix and allow for both passenger and freight trains to run again between Didcot Parkway and Oxford by Saturday 10 June. The work to replace the support structure will be complex and challenging owing to ground conditions at the site, including the proximity to the River Thames and the heavy clay soil in which the new support will need to be secured.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 12, 2023, 17:46:26
https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-engineers-work-around-the-clock-to-repair-nuneham-viaduct-with-the-line-expected-to-be-closed-until-early-june (https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-engineers-work-around-the-clock-to-repair-nuneham-viaduct-with-the-line-expected-to-be-closed-until-early-june)

Sounds like they are going to do it once and have done with it, as opposed to a temporary fix. Although I might have misunderstood it.

That's my reading too. After a lot about how they knew what was going on all the time, honest squire, and tried squirting some kind of glue (polymers, I gather) under the abutment but it still suddenly dropped a whole load more, this is the plan:
Quote
Engineers have been working around the clock since the line was closed and are now working to replace the southern support structure with a new one, which will provide a long-term fix and allow for both passenger and freight trains to run again between Didcot Parkway and Oxford by Saturday 10 June. The work to replace the support structure will be complex and challenging owing to ground conditions at the site, including the proximity to the River Thames and the heavy clay soil in which the new support will need to be secured.

I feared this might be the case at least it will get the job done once for all.

Does anyone know what is happening to the BMW traffic to Swindon?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 12, 2023, 18:21:53
It may be that the intervention precipitated the accellerated subsidence. (Empathy rather than finger-pointing if it did, plenty of quick fixes *do* work...)

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: eightonedee on April 12, 2023, 18:46:21
There's just been more about this on BBC local TV news, presented by Paul Clifton, including a description of the temporary structure they are construction to hold up this end of the bridge while permanent works to restore the abutment are undertaken.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on April 12, 2023, 19:37:00
Some of Paul Clifton's reports
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-65249735 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-65249735)
which also highlights the possible bus availability problems from next week
https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC (https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Surrey 455 on April 12, 2023, 21:46:49
Some of Paul Clifton's reports
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-65249735 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-65249735)

From that article
Quote
Mr Hopwood said GWR was also "looking at whether we can run some more trains from Oxford into London with Great Western using the Chiltern Railway route".

So would that be Paddington - West Ealing - Greenford - Chiltern line to Oxford?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 12, 2023, 22:19:07
Yes, that’s the only way to do it now the Wycombe Line connection at Old Oak isn’t available.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Oxonhutch on April 13, 2023, 08:07:33
Yes, that’s the only way to do it now the Wycombe Line connection at Old Oak isn’t available.

It would liven up the Greenford signaller's day.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 13, 2023, 08:58:27
Hasn’t the Network Rail view for some while been that the full Crossrail timetable prevents regular use of the flat junction at West Ealing?  Is that not why the Greenford shuttle was removed from Paddington?

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 13, 2023, 09:10:58
Hasn’t the Network Rail view for some while been that the full Crossrail timetable prevents regular use of the flat junction at West Ealing?  Is that not why the Greenford shuttle was removed from Paddington?

Paul

Maybe - but then the bridge failure is hardly "regular", is it?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 13, 2023, 09:23:57
Hasn’t the Network Rail view for some while been that the full Crossrail timetable prevents regular use of the flat junction at West Ealing?  Is that not why the Greenford shuttle was removed from Paddington?

Paul

Maybe - but then the bridge failure is hardly "regular", is it?

There will freight paths to / from Acton which could be made use of, although freight will have been diverted this routes already.  One or both of the Padd - Didcot could be changed to a Reading start / terminate this would free up that path between West Ealing and Padd.

The other consideration is GWR train crew route knowledge vis the Chiltern line

Edit: fright -> freight (Red Squirrel)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on April 13, 2023, 11:02:19
Paul Clifton’s assertion that NR “..have no idea what the foundations are like.” doesn’t quite square with Electric Train’s comment (post 78) that he is absolutely certain that NR had a plan [for the bridge]

I assume that NR carried out site investigations as soon as the southern abutment began causing concern back in 2018 or before, so they would have known (I hope!) about the ground conditions and the below-ground condition of the abutment well before its recent failure.  Presumably these investigations must have shown that a new abutment would be required at some point as the current one isn’t sitting on something solid.  Even if design work had not already started on a new abutment before its recent failure, I would have thought that, assuming all the site investigations have already been done, design and construction is achievable within 8 weeks.

Piles will be required of course, though the number, diameter and depth will depend on the ground conditions.  Fairly standard civil engineering work.

If there is to be a “temporary” support for the deck in the short term it’ll be interesting to see what form it takes, but I would have thought that would need piles too.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 13, 2023, 11:34:48
Yes, that’s the only way to do it now the Wycombe Line connection at Old Oak isn’t available.

It would liven up the Greenford signaller's day.

Into Marylebone would be another option of course (but with 5-car max if it was an IET).


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 13, 2023, 12:17:05
Piles will be required of course, though the number, diameter and depth will depend on the ground conditions.  Fairly standard civil engineering work.

If there is to be a “temporary” support for the deck in the short term it’ll be interesting to see what form it takes, but I would have thought that would need piles too.

I had assumed that, but I'm not 100% sure now. Yesterday's BBC piece showed showed some aggregate corraled in sheet piles as where the temporary support would go. So maybe piles are not involved there, unless it's just something for the piling engine to stand on. Remember that this temporary prop has to go some way away from the bearings, to allow space for the work on the abutment, which is why this support base is partly in the river. Even then, without moving the span, piling under it may not be feasible.

I was also puzzled by the comment about "heavy clay" making the work difficult. I'd have though that was the best sort of clay! Clay rather than gravels might be a bad thing, of course. So maybe they do intend to did a big trench and have a look at exactly what is there, and if it's not what they like replace it.

Alternatively, and assuming the abutment+wings has to end up looking like before (to please the planners), I guess you pile under the current wing walls. The transverse beam has to go near ground level, to stay within the profile of the embankment and wing walls. The bridge bearings are raised on struts above this, and the whole faced in brick.

Or, alternatively, they have a different plan!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on April 13, 2023, 13:23:43
Quote
Clay rather than gravels might be a bad thing
You tend to get both together in the Thames Valley


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on April 13, 2023, 14:24:40
So maybe they do intend to did a big trench and have a look at exactly what is there, and if it's not what they like replace it.

Site investigations into ground conditions involve a specialist geotechnical company drilling down and collecting core samples.  Trench digging is not required, which is just as well because you could be going down 25 metres or more.  The cores are laid out and the materials are identified and logged to record the depths at which they occur.  The strength and other attributes of the materials found are analysed and noted. 

This information, along with the load to be supported, is used to design the piles.  It is not especially complicated and the conditions at Nuneham are unlikely to be abnormal for the Thames Valley.     


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 13, 2023, 14:48:04
So maybe they do intend to did a big trench and have a look at exactly what is there, and if it's not what they like replace it.

Site investigations into ground conditions involve a specialist geotechnical company drilling down and collecting core samples.  Trench digging is not required, which is just as well because you could be going down 25 metres or more.  The cores are laid out and the materials are identified and logged to record the depths at which they occur.  The strength and other attributes of the materials found are analysed and noted. 

This information, along with the load to be supported, is used to design the piles.  It is not especially complicated and the conditions at Nuneham are unlikely to be abnormal for the Thames Valley.     


I suspect NR has sufficient geology data to base their "permanent" fix on otherwise they would be going down the route of a short term fix.  BR had its own soil mechanics that sampled such places, as this was a known failing structure NR Structures and Geotech Route teams will have had it surveyed and bored in the past.

The point I took from the video on Twitter was they attempted a fix with a polymer that did not work in this case.

There will be and possibly already is a review of where the process has fallen down


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: eightonedee on April 13, 2023, 16:11:57
Quote
I was also puzzled by the comment about "heavy clay" making the work difficult. I'd have though that was the best sort of clay! Clay rather than gravels might be a bad thing, of course. So maybe they do intend to did a big trench and have a look at exactly what is there, and if it's not what they like replace it.

It's not just the subsoil that the piles have to be laid in. There's also heavy construction equipment to be got on site, and wet heavy clay is probably the last thing you want to be moving a large piling rig across. We have just had an exceptionally wet March, with much of the Thames between Abingdon and Reading on extended flood alert, and although February was dry, September through to January were wet too.

This site is probably the furthest from a metalled road that any Thames railway bridge is situated (unless any of our knowledgeable forum know any different), so the logistical challenges will be significant.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on April 13, 2023, 17:26:00
For those with interest in the geotechnical side, and specifically boreholes I had a rummage round the BGS site

https://mapapps2.bgs.ac.uk/geoindex/home.html?layer=BGSBoreholes&_ga=2.172622368.2043912742.1681400817-2822824.1681400817 (https://mapapps2.bgs.ac.uk/geoindex/home.html?layer=BGSBoreholes&_ga=2.172622368.2043912742.1681400817-2822824.1681400817)

and then search for Culham. Lots of boreholes in the area, mostly less than 10m deep and to do with the RADLEY ASH DISPOSAL SCHEME for Didcot power station (?) probably confirmed by a "Confidential" borehole either end of the bridge. I would imagine there is other data, but not deposited with BGS.

There are some deeper boreholes/wells in Abingdon itself but appear to be connected with domestic water supply. To my untutored eye they suggest that you possibly have to go down 100ft to solid rock


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 13, 2023, 17:35:36
Another Network Rail brief on Twitter. Mentions they’re going to build a structure in the river to support the spans, and they expect to pile to a depth of 25 metres:
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1646540219959721987


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: eightonedee on April 13, 2023, 17:58:39
Quote
Lots of boreholes in the area, mostly less than 10m deep and to do with the RADLEY ASH DISPOSAL SCHEME for Didcot power station (?)

The disused aggregate pits on the west side of the railway were partly back-filled with ash from the power station - next time you are passing on the train (if you remember by then!) you will see, depending on the water level, that there has been some fine material deposited. I think some of the pits have also been back-filled with landfill from London, which used to arrive by train, and that part of the old Abingdon branch might have been left in place for a while for one or other of these (but I might be mistaken!).


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 13, 2023, 18:14:50
Another Network Rail brief on Twitter. Mentions they’re going to build a structure in the river to support the spans, and they expect to pile to a depth of 25 metres:
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1646540219959721987

If you compare the state of the abutment in that video (00:50-1:00) with last summer (https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C5622AQEQMjAcrQqLgg/feedshare-shrink_800/0/1653333378616?e=1684368000&v=beta&t=r6WaqsTlm1xtjJ9t6AWsI36yeKDa888YdLDykmQNwOM) (from LinkedIn, Post #75) you get a striking impression of how much the abutment has dropped since then.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 13, 2023, 19:48:28
I was also puzzled by the comment about "heavy clay" making the work difficult. I'd have though that was the best sort of clay! Clay rather than gravels might be a bad thing, of course.

From a bridge foundations point of view clay is fine as long as you are away from a slope and you get get well below the groundwater level so there is no risk of it drying out (Thames valley clay it shrinks if dries out then you have a problem). 

The problem is a wet March and getting equipment across a field.  However, the land immediately by the river often has sand and gravel overlying the clay which would be ok for moving heavy equipment.

They might of course be able to move a piling rig on a barge - especially if the are piling in the river!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 13, 2023, 20:33:17
Wasn’t that mentioned as the plan in the EA river closure notice was hich was referenced here earlier in the thread?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 14, 2023, 00:09:01
Wasn’t that mentioned as the plan in the EA river closure notice was hich was referenced here earlier in the thread?

The EA notice referred to a "pontoon", i.e. something floating. NR's video says they will build "a pile-foundation and a temporary trestle so we can support the steel structure and hold that level" "in the middle of the Thames". I assume "middle" is not to be taken literally, but just as meaning away from the bank. That in itself is a bit odd, in that if you just want to substitute for the failed support while not allowing the span to move you don't want to support it near mid-span. Keeping its weight on the far bearing (mid-river) is what stops that and moving.

The other question (alluded to by ellendune) is how to pile into the river bed. Certainly marine floating piling rigs exist, but they could not get into what is in effect a narrow canal. "Piling" on canals almost always means sheet piling of banks, and the rigs to do that are usually small, and  mounted on little diggers. I guess the method chosen will be whatever is quickest, in this case, even if it involves exotic machinery.

And what about piling for the abutment "probably 25 metres deep"? The mid-river pier has foundations on gravel eleven feet below the river bed, dug inside a coffer dam ("of the ordinary type"). I guess the river is no more than 11 feet deep, so that's less than 8 metres from ground level. So would this really mean reaching the same gravel bed and sinking the piles more than 15 metres into it?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on April 14, 2023, 07:04:24
Piling to 25 m, as ellendune says fine if they are happy to rely on clay, as suggested in my previous posts boreholes in the area suggest 30+ m to solid rock. I hope they have had access to the Confodential borehole data (probably means you have to pay for it) at either end of the bridge.

I am amused by them closing half the river, means the "floating gin palaces" will need to improve their steering.

I hope they will do a really thorough investigation of the central pier and the northern side of the bridge, would be embarrasing to have to close the railway again if problems appeared there.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 14, 2023, 07:20:55
Another Network Rail brief on Twitter. Mentions they’re going to build a structure in the river to support the spans, and they expect to pile to a depth of 25 metres:
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1646540219959721987

Re watching this video, he states that a temporary "piled structure" will but in the "middle of the river" this will mean closing one of the channels the EA will agree to this the adverse PR would not be good.

In the video he does mention the permeant piles down to around 25 meters, that's not to far off of the 100 ft mentioned in other posts


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 14, 2023, 09:03:13
The question in my mind - and it affects the nature of the temporary structure in the river and the equipment needed to build it - is whether it is merely to support the dead weight of the bridge while the abutment is rebuilt (my assumption) or whether it has to allow the bridge to reopen while the permanent abutment is built.   

Small piling rigs are widely available that can get inside buildings but I am not sure how suitable they would be for this application. 

Another option to move plant to site is to bring it as near as possible by rail and building a short haul road along the line of the railway. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 14, 2023, 09:18:58
Another Network Rail brief on Twitter. Mentions they’re going to build a structure in the river to support the spans, and they expect to pile to a depth of 25 metres:
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1646540219959721987

Re watching this video, he states that a temporary "piled structure" will but in the "middle of the river" this will mean closing one of the channels the EA will agree to this the adverse PR would not be good.

In the video he does mention the permeant piles down to around 25 meters, that's not to far off of the 100 ft mentioned in other posts

The EA Have already agreed to close one side of the river, initially for a monrg - see the closure notice referredced in previous post


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 14, 2023, 10:16:36
The question in my mind - and it affects the nature of the temporary structure in the river and the equipment needed to build it - is whether it is merely to support the dead weight of the bridge while the abutment is rebuilt (my assumption) or whether it has to allow the bridge to reopen while the permanent abutment is built.   

Small piling rigs are widely available that can get inside buildings but I am not sure how suitable they would be for this application. 

Another option to move plant to site is to bring it as near as possible by rail and building a short haul road along the line of the railway. 

In the Twitter video Stuart Calvert says the temporary structure in the Thames is just to support the bridge while the new abutment is constructed.  I am guessing they will demo the old abutment dig out part of the existing embankment to give them space to work, I'm not Civil Eng but what I've seen of piling rigs for 25 meter piles they are big


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 14, 2023, 10:40:00
.. Yesterday's BBC piece showed showed some aggregate corraled in sheet piles as where the temporary support would go. So maybe piles are not involved there, unless it's just something for the piling engine to stand on...

That "new ground" within the piles is in fact some way downstream from the bridge. So it looks more like exactly what Paul Clifton called it - a jetty - for access onto a pontoon, presumably.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 14, 2023, 11:55:10
The problem with most piling rigs is not the width and length, but the height of the rig.  Piling underneath a bridge is therefore a big problem.  Less so with the permanent structure will be piled from the south end of the bridge. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 14, 2023, 17:11:42
Ah, I now have a mental image of the bridge span supported at its centre from the river bed, then the span raised slightly and on a turntable - and for a month or so a swing span joins the list of Thames bridge types as it frees up headroom for the work to the abutment.

Also, I thought of the Severn Rail bridge, and the temporary support constructed for the span alongside the damaged pier that had ended up a couple of feet out of true. It's somewhat visible in the photo below. Always wondering how this sort of work is seated on a river bed. That river bed particularly...

Mark

https://www.steampicturelibrary.com/places/bridges-viaducts-tunnels-severn-railway-bridge/dismantling-severn-railway-bridge-1967-8942599.html (https://www.steampicturelibrary.com/places/bridges-viaducts-tunnels-severn-railway-bridge/dismantling-severn-railway-bridge-1967-8942599.html)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 14, 2023, 17:41:18
Ah, I now have a mental image of the bridge span supported at its centre from the river bed, then the span raised slightly and on a turntable - and for a month or so a swing span joins the list of Thames bridge types as it frees up headroom for the work to the abutment.

I don't think there is any need to swing the bridge.

If you put a row (or two) of vertical piles immediately south of the bridge span and a further row of raked piles (piles angled slightly out into the river) starting from the same position. then by the time you get to the level just below the towpath - which is the level where you would cast the pile cap You will then you have a slab that is directly underneath bridge bearings.  The pile cap is the thick slab that joins all the piles together at the top spreading the load between them.  You could also put some larger piles at the ends (on the east and west side of the bridge).  The raked piles will also take some of the horizontal load from the ground behind the abutment wall. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on April 15, 2023, 11:23:23
Here's a video showing how piling is done in and next to a river:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vH6MMGN1s&list=UUB2nPWt7H4Oai9C0pgfACgA&index=3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vH6MMGN1s&list=UUB2nPWt7H4Oai9C0pgfACgA&index=3)

Nick Brazil produced videos (on YouTube) at every stage of the reconstruction of Whitchurch Bridge, which has some parallels with that at Nuneham   A big crane on a pontoon was used throughout the project.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on April 15, 2023, 11:48:04
The length of the pile casings is determined by the ground conditions as determined by site investigations.  They go down as far as is necessary to ensure that the ground will not collapse inwards when the drill exits the bottom of the pile casing.  The drilling continues on downwards as far as is necessary for the loads to be supported.

It’s always good to get the void filled with the steel reinforcing and concrete as quickly as possible, until you do there’s always a concern that the void will collapse inwards. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 15, 2023, 12:16:11
You can see from the video the clear height needed for the piling work. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 16, 2023, 15:27:13
There was a reasonably factual piece about this poor old bridge and the work it needs in today's Sunday Times. The one bit of new information, however, I rather doubt: "Fissures have also appeared in the brick arches." Given it also refers to the northern abutment being rebuilt in brick in 1929, the author seems to have a rather hazy notion of the viaduct's component parts.

It gives what is now Network Rail's preferred excuseexplanation for this becoming an emergency repair: "the only part of the bridge that has largely been left untouched since Victorian times is the abutment on the south bank and that has been blamed for the movements that have twisted the railway lines above." It adds: "It is not known why the abutment was not replaced in 1929, although it is likely that it was to save money in those straitened times."

Well, given the 1929 work was all on the north side (and we don't know why or how that was done), why would the abutment alone be rebuilt if it was showing no signs of degradation? No doubt it should have asked why it was not replaced in 1906/7, but the "still looks OK" argument also holds then. Plus, with the demand to keep one line open throughout, rebuilding it would mean taking down half the old abutment and digging half a new foundation at a time - I can see that being worth avoiding.

Note that the new piers mid-river and on the north bank were built in between the existing piles: see OS plan views from 1898 and 1910. There were eight spans and seven rows of piles in the old viaduct, but only the cutwaters around the ones in the river can be seen. And no, it's not perfectly accurate and to scale; these small details were drawn freehand.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 16, 2023, 22:48:43
There was a reasonably factual piece about this poor old bridge and the work it needs in today's Sunday Times.

There's a longer version of that article (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f6ad6f1c-db8c-11ed-b1e2-4c4ae98cfe2f?shareToken=6e21045e31c2cbfdd6b1d81e05347bb8) on the Times/ST website (subject to the usual paywall and marketing offers).


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 17, 2023, 05:45:37
From Oxfordshire Live (https://www.oxfordshirelive.co.uk/news/oxfordshire-news/chiltern-railways-warns-customers-busy-8354935)

Quote
Chiltern Railways has advised customers to expect busier trains than usual between Oxford and London Marylebone from Monday (April 17).

Great Western Railway (GWR) is unable to operate any trains between Oxford and Didcot Parkway until the June 10 at the earliest whilst urgent Network Rail repairs to a bridge are taking place. This means that Chiltern Railways will be the sole option for direct rail travel between Oxford and the capital.

If the trains are likely to be busier than usual, can they operate with longer trains than usual?  The Chiltern fleet is turbo based as I understand it, and the GWR trains that can't run to Oxford via Didcot at the moment include turbos ...


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 17, 2023, 06:18:38
This is what Chiltsrn have done, but are warning Oxford commutdrs that these longer trains will be just as busy if they all aim for a train at their usual time. They just cannot put on 9/10 car services.

They have also removed many intermediate stops to help prevent overcrowding. I feel for those few who commute intermediately, like OXF/OXP/BIT to say HDM or HWY, which is now no longer possible at many times of the day. I have pointed this out to Chiltern


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 17, 2023, 09:12:10
The GWR Turbos working the Didcot services number three 2-car units and they also work the services through to Banbury, and the halts service on the North Cotswold line, so a maximum of two would be available, one in the peaks. 

They have sufficient differences to the Chiltern units to make them awkward to operate in multiple (no ATP, different PIS systems, minor control differences) so I can’t see Chiltern bolstering their services with them.

With Chiltern being maxed out, the only solution I can see is to run IET’s through to London via High Wycombe.  That would need a Chiltern/freight driver to pilot a GWR driver and might need route clearance certification, so I think that is probably more unlikely than likely.

An awkward situation for Chiltern and it’s passengers to have to put up with, but at least the line is available.  Had this happened a few years ago, there would have been no alternative route from Oxford to London of course.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Marlburian on April 17, 2023, 09:52:47
On a personal note, I'm due to meet a cousin in Oxford in mid-May (she's probably travelling by train from North Wales) and I may need to visit a hospital in the NE of the city around the same time. So I'm deliberating over the best way to get there, balancing the need to allow for delays  against hanging around for a while if the journey goes smoothly! The hospital car-park has negative reviews for not being big enough.

I'm not keen on crowding on to a replacement bus at Didcot along with disgruntled Cross-Country travellers, and the X40 bus service from Reading offers a long-winded 90-minute journey. So possibly I'll take a taxi from Didcot, drive to a village or town(Wallingford) to pick up the X40, or use one of the Oxford park & rides. At least for the initial hospital visit I won't be having any tests that preclude driving.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 17, 2023, 10:21:08
As someone with recent experience of the JR in Oxdord, if you are looking at a weekday, I would use the Park & Rides. Most of them now have buses from there to the JR, and routes to/from the city centre from the JR.

Weekends are different in that the P&R services to the JR are fewer, but you’ll always get a car park space at weekdnds (£1.40/hour)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: DaveHarries on April 17, 2023, 12:53:09
I'm not keen on crowding on to a replacement bus at Didcot along with disgruntled Cross-Country travellers, and the X40 bus service from Reading offers a long-winded 90-minute journey. So possibly I'll take a taxi from Didcot, drive to a village or town(Wallingford) to pick up the X40, or use one of the Oxford park & rides. At least for the initial hospital visit I won't be having any tests that preclude driving.
Whereabouts are you travelling from? Given your username I would suggest Marlborough (nr. Swindon) in which case GWR advise - https://www.gwr.com/oxford-update - that Service S6 (Swindon - Oxford, via. Farringdon) has an acceptance in place for rail tickets. Nice trip tbh which takes about 1½ - 1¾hrs depending on the time of day and I prefer it to a train trip if time allows. Also the S6 between Swindon and Oxford runs more frequently than the Didcot - Oxford service. The S6 is currently not going into Oxford City Centre though due to the work on the rail bridge by Oxford station.

Dave



Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 17, 2023, 16:00:57
Whereabouts are you travelling from? Given your username I would suggest Marlborough (nr. Swindon) in which case GWR advise - https://www.gwr.com/oxford-update - that Service S6 (Swindon - Oxford, via. Farringdon) has an acceptance in place for rail tickets. Nice trip tbh which takes about 1½ - 1¾hrs depending on the time of day and I prefer it to a train trip if time allows. Also the S6 between Swindon and Oxford runs more frequently than the Didcot - Oxford service. The S6 is currently not going into Oxford City Centre though due to the work on the rail bridge by Oxford station.

Dave

I see they still explain on the GWR site that it’s closed for “detailed safety inspections”. Why can’t they admit in writing that it’s completely failed and they’re now awaiting repair?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Marlburian on April 17, 2023, 17:04:05
I'm not keen on crowding on to a replacement bus at Didcot along with disgruntled Cross-Country travellers, and the X40 bus service from Reading offers a long-winded 90-minute journey. So possibly I'll take a taxi from Didcot, drive to a village or town(Wallingford) to pick up the X40, or use one of the Oxford park & rides. At least for the initial hospital visit I won't be having any tests that preclude driving.
Whereabouts are you travelling from? Given your username I would suggest Marlborough (nr. Swindon) in which case GWR advise - https://www.gwr.com/oxford-update - that Service S6 (Swindon - Oxford, via. Farringdon) has an acceptance in place for rail tickets. Nice trip tbh which takes about 1½ - 1¾hrs depending on the time of day and I prefer it to a train trip if time allows. Also the S6 between Swindon and Oxford runs more frequently than the Didcot - Oxford service. The S6 is currently not going into Oxford City Centre though due to the work on the rail bridge by Oxford station.

Dave

Only from Tilehurst, so getting to Didcot is easy, as is catching the X40 from Reading or an intermediate spot. (I'm going to a hospital other than the John Radcliffe.)

(Your deduction that I live in Wiltshire was a reasonable one, but my Forum name relates to the county being my favourite and my interest in military training there. And no, I wasn't in the army!  :))


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: nickswift99 on April 18, 2023, 06:39:26
The X32 runs directly from Didcot to the John Radcliffe (assuming that’s your hospital of choice in Oxford). It runs twice an hour and takes roughly 1 hour.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Marlburian on April 18, 2023, 09:53:41
Hey Nick, that's very useful, thanks for the tip. The hospital I have in mind is very close to the John Radcliffe. As is often the case, I'm over-thinking the travel arrangements, especially as it's not certain I'll be going there.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 18, 2023, 10:44:05
Here is a report from Ground Engineering (https://www.geplus.co.uk/uncategorised/oxfordshire-viaducts-rapid-deterioration-closes-railway-for-two-months-18-04-2023/), so while they have no new sources of information at least they ought to understand what they have been told by NR! Their photo shows what I believe are a pair of McCulloch Panel Lifters at work.
(https://cdn.ca.emap.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2023/04/Oxfordshire-viaducts-%E2%80%98rapid-deterioration-closes-railway-for-two-months.jpg)
And no - that's not a battery box on top, it's got a 32kW diesel (Euro stage V tier 4 final) plus all the electrical/mechanical/hydraulic gubbins it needs.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ReWind on April 18, 2023, 17:15:43
Things not looking good if you want to get back to Oxford from London tonight.

It's either a RRB from Didcot or er...... that's it.  Chiltern route blocked due to a failed freight train causing mayhem there.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 18, 2023, 20:52:04
Chiltern route blocked due to a failed freight train causing mayhem there.

Now under way, hesitantly, and almost at Princes Risborough heading for 'Quainton Railhead' wherever that is.

Mark

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H04312/2023-04-18/detailed


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: bradshaw on April 18, 2023, 21:32:04
East West Rail construction site I think, not too far from Quainton Road of the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: nickswift99 on April 19, 2023, 06:16:18
Unfortunately it looks like this train got as far as Princes Risborough and has stayed there overnight blocking platform 3.

As of 0615 it’s still there.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 19, 2023, 12:50:51
East West Rail construction site I think, not too far from Quainton Road of the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre.
It’s more the HS2 railhead than EWR, although some material is being used by HS2 for their contracted part of the EWR embankments where they cross.

It’s fair to say however that these are not reactionary diversions for the Nuneham viaduct failure, they’re running on their normal route in the WTT for this whole timetable period.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: TonyN on April 19, 2023, 21:38:23
This is certainly generating some unusual freight paths.

Returning from Derby to Worcestershire Parkway this afternoon as my Cross Country train entered New Street at around 17:25 a freight train went past us heading North out of New Street!

Real Time trains tells me it was from Appleford tip to Milford sidings.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 20, 2023, 20:13:59
Another update from Network Rail…

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1649077107660652547?s=46&t=ah-SsHksqViJs35eOx7jsQ


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 20, 2023, 21:41:12
Another update from Network Rail…

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1649077107660652547?s=46&t=ah-SsHksqViJs35eOx7jsQ

Looking at the piles stacked up they look like the type and style used for OLE masts; I wonder if they are making use of the Didcot - Oxford electrification piles that were not driven into the ground before the electrification was stopped


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Oxonhutch on April 21, 2023, 10:09:58
Looking at the piles stacked up they look like the type and style used for OLE masts; I wonder if they are making use of the Didcot - Oxford electrification piles that were not driven into the ground before the electrification was stopped

I wonder if those piles are going to be used to temporarily support the spans while the abutment is repiled and rebuild. The temporary piles will not have to support any dynamic weight unlike the abutment.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 21, 2023, 15:17:01
How do you pile into the bed of a river anyway? It may be closed, but the water is still there, and I've seen no mention of a coffer dam. In this case, would you use very long piles (joined if need be) so the tops are above water - and have to cut them down to free the river for reopening? Or would you drive the piles flush with the river bed, using a suitable piling hammer (which I see are standard pieces of kit), and bolt on the trestle underwater?

For the abutment, I can see that removing the embankment will allow them to put piles in just beyond the end of the bridge, and they can also put them beside the bearings. That could give enough support and keep the load through the piles vertical (which I think helps). The bearing for the middle girder is the difficult one to get under or all around. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 21, 2023, 15:23:02
I wonder if those piles are going to be used to temporarily support the spans while the abutment is repiled and rebuild. The temporary piles will not have to support any dynamic weight unlike the abutment.
Yes, that’s how the NR chap Stuart Calvert explains it in the latest video, linked earlier by ChrisB. It’s at about 55s into the video.  

It was also stated in the previous video he also appeared in.

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 21, 2023, 20:57:29
How do you pile into the bed of a river anyway? It may be closed, but the water is still there, and I've seen no mention of a coffer dam. In this case, would you use very long piles (joined if need be) so the tops are above water - and have to cut them down to free the river for reopening? Or would you drive the piles flush with the river bed, using a suitable piling hammer (which I see are standard pieces of kit), and bolt on the trestle underwater?
 

Putting them in is perhaps not a problem the river bed and clay will seal the pile ............... I would think its the pulling them out and leaving a space where the pile wall was  :o 

Although the water table will be quite high and the space will soon seal by collapsing .................. or just bank them all the way home when finished with


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 22, 2023, 17:05:02
Paul Clifton’s piece for Rail magazine has a very intresting snippet.

GWR tell him that since the pandemic, there are just 112 season ticket holders from Oxford. And around just 1,500 peak passengers on most days.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 22, 2023, 17:59:13
That's surprising, thanks for this.

Looking up the cost on Trainline*, for an annual season ticket, Oxford to London Terminals, any permitted route, that's currently £6096 to Paddington, or somewhat under £17 per day (both the cost and the daily rate might also surprise many people). Add a zone 1-6 travelcard and the price goes up by around £1000.

Speaking with someone who lives there, the Oxford Tube does commuter heavy lifting, especially given the geography of the city, and with an annual pass coming in at £1395.

Mark

*National Rail's season ticket calculator is currently horked.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: didcotdean on April 22, 2023, 19:25:21
Plus some of those season ticket holders will have always been travelling from Didcot as the season from there is the same price so you might as well get the Oxford one for the wider validity.

The question might be how many or few of those are first class. Southeastern justified in part dropping first class as they only had 28 first class seasons across their whole network.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 22, 2023, 19:39:01
So most if not all Didvmcot season holders would hold an Oxford season according to your suggestion. Ther’s still only 112?if these in *total*


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Oxonhutch on April 22, 2023, 20:31:10
Is there a season cheaper via High Wycombe only? If so, I imagine there are a lot more OXF-LON seasons.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 22, 2023, 21:05:39
Is there a season cheaper via High Wycombe only? If so, I imagine there are a lot more OXF-LON seasons.

According to BR Fares, no ... virtually everything is "any permitted". I suspect there may have been some sort of agreement as Chiltern were allowed to enter Oxford that they would not undercut GWR?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 22, 2023, 21:45:09
Is there a season cheaper via High Wycombe only? If so, I imagine there are a lot more OXF-LON seasons.

According to BR Fares, no ... virtually everything is "any permitted". I suspect there may have been some sort of agreement as Chiltern were allowed to enter Oxford that they would not undercut GWR?

Wouldn't that be illegal as anti-competitive behaviour.  I thought the whole idea of competing services was to introduce competition!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 22, 2023, 21:49:45
Paul Clifton’s piece for Rail magazine has a very intresting snippet.

GWR tell him that since the pandemic, there are just 112 season ticket holders from Oxford. And around just 1,500 peak passengers on most days.

Could that be because longer distance commuters are much less likely to go into the office 5 days a week. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on April 23, 2023, 05:57:29
Is there a season cheaper via High Wycombe only? If so, I imagine there are a lot more OXF-LON seasons.

According to BR Fares, no ... virtually everything is "any permitted". I suspect there may have been some sort of agreement as Chiltern were allowed to enter Oxford that they would not undercut GWR?

Wouldn't that be illegal as anti-competitive behaviour.  I thought the whole idea of competing services was to introduce competition!

Indeed ... but then isn't the idea of regulated fares to ... well, interfere with aspects of competition, and I suspect that many of the fares available are regulated.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Hafren on April 23, 2023, 12:29:31
Is there a season cheaper via High Wycombe only? If so, I imagine there are a lot more OXF-LON seasons.

According to BR Fares, no ... virtually everything is "any permitted". I suspect there may have been some sort of agreement as Chiltern were allowed to enter Oxford that they would not undercut GWR?

It looks like fares from Bicester (set by Chiltern) aren't much less, so by providing a cheaper Oxford via HW fare they'd be undercutting their own fares further up the line.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on April 26, 2023, 08:12:11
An update with a video from Paul Clifton of the BBC on Twitter (https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1651008351549943815?s=20):

The video shows clusters of piles in the river either side of the bridge.  So they weren't driven under the bridge. 

Screen grab below



Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 26, 2023, 08:28:59
The uncaptioned chap from NR said:

"We'd normally spend 2 or 3 years in planning and designing and getting everything organised"

This situation is very abnormal for a number of reasons, but one can't help wondering if other projects could move forward quicker if there was a greater sense of urgency...


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 26, 2023, 08:32:44
Known as ‘JFDI’?…..


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 26, 2023, 09:55:20
Known as ‘JFDI’?…..

Well, yeah.

I have an engineering background (mechanical rather than civil) so I do understand that there is a lot more to these things than meets the eye of the lay observer. But even in the exciting new world of Project Speed (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/launch-of-project-speed-challenges-rail-industry-to-cut-time-and-costs-of-rail-upgrades), I can't help thinking that the general modus operandi is still far too omphaloskeptic.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on April 26, 2023, 10:22:41
omphaloskeptic.

*Flies to dictionary*

Ah. Really good point.

Also, there must be someone in Network Rail just itching to take the opportunity, while that span is lifted off its bearings and free of ballast, for a full grit blast and application of fetching (and black) epoxy surface coating to Nuneham Bridge's rusting steel.

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on April 26, 2023, 19:55:38
The uncaptioned chap from NR said:

"We'd normally spend 2 or 3 years in planning and designing and getting everything organised"

This situation is very abnormal for a number of reasons, but one can't help wondering if other projects could move forward quicker if there was a greater sense of urgency...
He’s called Stuart Calvert, (NR Western & Wales capital delivery director), he was name checked in the two earlier videos.

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 27, 2023, 08:37:09
Known as ‘JFDI’?…..

Well, yeah.

I have an engineering background (mechanical rather than civil) so I do understand that there is a lot more to these things than meets the eye of the lay observer. But even in the exciting new world of Project Speed (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/launch-of-project-speed-challenges-rail-industry-to-cut-time-and-costs-of-rail-upgrades), I can't help thinking that the general modus operandi is still far too omphaloskeptic.

The naval gazing is generated by a whole load of "governance" place on NR by the the Treasury and the DfT and the ORR and some internal.  NR is a large "public" body that spends a lot of Tax payers money which means there will always be rules governing how it spends money; after all Contractors mainly have to look after their share holders interests.



Also, there must be someone in Network Rail just itching to take the opportunity, while that span is lifted off its bearings and free of ballast, for a full grit blast and application of fetching (and black) epoxy surface coating to Nuneham Bridge's rusting steel.

Mark


I suspect the option to treat the deck at the very least will be looked at, but they would not want that to impact on the reconstruction and opening of the line


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 27, 2023, 11:22:17

[...]

The naval gazing is generated by a whole load of "governance" place on NR by the the Treasury and the DfT and the ORR and some internal.  NR is a large "public" body that spends a lot of Tax payers money which means there will always be rules governing how it spends money; after all Contractors mainly have to look after their share holders interests.

[...]


Something has gone wrong somewhere though, hasn't it? Bond Street (Elizabeth line) and Portway Park & Ride stations have little in common on the face of it, but both seem to have faced months of delay due to certification issues. I'm told that a couple of local reopenings have been delayed by a lack of awarenesss of certification requirements.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Bob_Blakey on April 27, 2023, 12:40:00
...naval gazing...

I see no ships.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on April 28, 2023, 06:42:44

[...]

The naval gazing is generated by a whole load of "governance" place on NR by the the Treasury and the DfT and the ORR and some internal.  NR is a large "public" body that spends a lot of Tax payers money which means there will always be rules governing how it spends money; after all Contractors mainly have to look after their share holders interests.

[...]


Something has gone wrong somewhere though, hasn't it? Bond Street (Elizabeth line) and Portway Park & Ride stations have little in common on the face of it, but both seem to have faced months of delay due to certification issues. I'm told that a couple of local reopenings have been delayed by a lack of awarenesss of certification requirements.

The certification process is onerous, but not impossible.  The certification process starts at the design stage a good programme director / project project manager and the lead Engineer in my experience build up the file at that the design stage and keep it under constant review through the construction and commissioning stage.   

Bond St (Elizabeth Line) most of the delays were attributed to the constraints of the construction site. 


I knew something was missing on the horizon  ;D


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 28, 2023, 16:11:18
Looks like from next Tuesday shuttle turbos will run between Didcot and Culham (only stopping at Appleford in the up direction) and also between Oxford and Radley.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on April 29, 2023, 14:42:21
Another update on twitter from NR, posted yesterday

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1651886169997692929?s=46&t=cyVBe5e5i0wsMv6U8nZRng


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on April 30, 2023, 09:48:36
From what Stuart Calvert says at 1:18 I wonder if they are going to make openings in the bridge deck so they can insert the piles and drill down through the deck from above.

If this is so the deck will be jacked up slightly so the new abutment can then be constructed underneath it before the deck is lowered down on to its new bearings.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on April 30, 2023, 11:15:08
From what Stuart Calvert says at 1:18 I wonder if they are going to make openings in the bridge deck so they can insert the piles and drill down through the deck from above.

If this is so the deck will be jacked up slightly so the new abutment can then be constructed underneath it before the deck is lowered down on to its new bearings.

That would answer the question I raised earlier about getting piles all round, and close to, all three bearings:
For the abutment, I can see that removing the embankment will allow them to put piles in just beyond the end of the bridge, and they can also put them beside the bearings. That could give enough support and keep the load through the piles vertical (which I think helps). The bearing for the middle girder is the difficult one to get under or all around. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ray951 on May 02, 2023, 10:59:51
I see that the Oxford - Radley shuttle service ran today. The schedule is for 3 services in the morning peak and 3 in the evening peak.

The Didcot - Culham service didnt run this morning, although this afternoon's services have not yet been cancelled.

Services do not appear to be scheduled to stop at Appleford, and the timings are very slack 19 minutes to get to Culham and 14 on the return, I would assume if they do eventually run there would be a lot of early arrivals.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on May 09, 2023, 11:48:28
I’ve seen in other forums that the bridge span was jacked level by yesterday. There’s a Twitter picture here that’s a good view of the present situation:

https://twitter.com/507stre/status/1655619283479560196


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on May 09, 2023, 12:00:51
 Here's the picture from Twitter:

(https://twitter.com/507stre/status/1655619283479560196/photo/1)

Well I tried.  Why can I only get that to work 50% of the time?

I was going to add that that is just as I imagined it would be done. 

Now the real work can start on the new abutment. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 09, 2023, 13:10:31
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fvnw9uMX0AIqpPz?format=jpg&name=small)

600mm. Blimey. Impressive.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on May 09, 2023, 13:45:47
Here's the picture from Twitter:

(https://twitter.com/507stre/status/1655619283479560196/photo/1)

Well I tried.  Why can I only get that to work 50% of the time?

I was going to add that that is just as I imagined it would be done. 

Now the real work can start on the new abutment. 

Is this the problem I describe at http://www.passenger.chat/27456 ?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on May 09, 2023, 14:23:00
600mm. Blimey. Impressive.

It's what was needed - indeed, exactly how far I estimated the deck to have dropped from its original height, by peering intently at pictures taken along the track. Presumably it will have to go a bit higher to add the bearings on top of the new abutment.

But you'll observe that the lift was not done in one go - none of the jacks has extended by anything like 600 mm. They will have been used as two sets alternately: lift the bridge on one set, raise the second on spacers (which you can see), then lift using those and retract the first ones to add more spacers under them.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on May 09, 2023, 14:55:27
Here's the picture from Twitter:

(https://twitter.com/507stre/status/1655619283479560196/photo/1)

Well I tried.  Why can I only get that to work 50% of the time?

I was going to add that that is just as I imagined it would be done. 

Now the real work can start on the new abutment. 

Is this the problem I describe at http://www.passenger.chat/27456 ?

Depends if anyone else can see the image which is the one that Red Squirrel posted


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on May 10, 2023, 06:51:17
Image from https://twitter.com/507stre/status/1655619283479560196 (https://twitter.com/507stre/status/1655619283479560196)
Additional image https://twitter.com/507stre/status/1655988513806901249?cxt=HHwWgoCz2fGxoPstAAAA (https://twitter.com/507stre/status/1655988513806901249?cxt=HHwWgoCz2fGxoPstAAAA)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 10, 2023, 10:50:54
[...]

Depends if anyone else can see the image which is the one that Red Squirrel posted


Can you see it, ellendune?

The uri you posted was: https://twitter.com/507stre/status/1655619283479560196/photo/1

This appears to link to the twitter page, rather than directly to the image. I can see that the img tags wouldn't like that!
The uri I posted was: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fvnw9uMX0AIqpPz?format=jpg&name=small

...which is clearly very different. This does resolve, and works within the img tags. I note that it needs the querystring (the ?format=jpg&name=small bit).

I don't claim to be an expert in either twitter or simplemachines; I have posted this in the hope that it helps!



Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on May 10, 2023, 10:57:44
For those that can see that picture ... doesn't the platform the jacks are sitting on - piles, lattice girders and all - look massively over the top for the load they are carrying (which is about 120 tons total)? Even if it's rigidity that counts, rather than strength, that's still true.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on May 10, 2023, 11:12:13
For those that can see that picture ... doesn't the platform the jacks are sitting on - piles, lattice girders and all - look massively over the top for the load they are carrying (which is about 120 tons total)? Even if it's rigidity that counts, rather than strength, that's still true.

Possibly, though the trusses are only supported at the ends so there is quite a long span. The loads may not be evenly distributed among all the jacks that support the deck or if there is some differential settlement in the piles. There will also need to be some allowance for accidental and construction loads on the bridge deck.  Finally they will be using what they had available in the yard at short notice. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on May 11, 2023, 18:39:27
See last two pictures for an idea of how much of the embankment has been removed at this stage
https://www.tmsmaritime.co.uk/emergency-works-2/ (https://www.tmsmaritime.co.uk/emergency-works-2/)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on May 12, 2023, 06:56:56
For those that can see that picture ... doesn't the platform the jacks are sitting on - piles, lattice girders and all - look massively over the top for the load they are carrying (which is about 120 tons total)? Even if it's rigidity that counts, rather than strength, that's still true.

Possibly, though the trusses are only supported at the ends so there is quite a long span. The loads may not be evenly distributed among all the jacks that support the deck or if there is some differential settlement in the piles. There will also need to be some allowance for accidental and construction loads on the bridge deck.  Finally they will be using what they had available in the yard at short notice. 

I agree with ellendune observations.  Also when I have been involved in projects where temporary support structures have been put in place the design always looks OTT, it was explained to me by a structural engineer the temporary steel beams used have a lower load rating than structural steel RSJ 'I' beams of an equivalent size

See last two pictures for an idea of how much of the embankment has been removed at this stage
https://www.tmsmaritime.co.uk/emergency-works-2/ (https://www.tmsmaritime.co.uk/emergency-works-2/)

I guess they need to make space for the piling rigs, and may be they also needed to remove that far back to get to stable embankment


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Bob_Blakey on May 12, 2023, 09:50:15
I wouldn't have thought the embankment would be cut back further than absolutely necessary - to do otherwise would increase the cost and duration of the repair -  so somebody must surely have concluded there is an awful lot of unstable ground around the south abutment.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on May 12, 2023, 10:03:51
I wouldn't have thought the embankment would be cut back further than absolutely necessary - to do otherwise would increase the cost and duration of the repair -  so somebody must surely have concluded there is an awful lot of unstable ground around the south abutment.

Moving earth around has got so quick and easy with modern machinery that I don't suppose it's a big issue any more. You have only to look at any building site, even a couple of houses, to see how much moving earth back and forth goes on and how few people it takes to do it.

So I think it looks like working space they are creating. I'm sure there will be very strict rules and restraints to prevent anyone working underneath that bridge of Damocles. Incidentally, I've seen no sign of anything holding that span in place, to prevent it moving on or off its bearings or the jacks. Surely that's essential in a case like this?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on May 12, 2023, 16:44:18
New Friday video from Network Rail Western.

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1657030370897055744

I'm no closer to understanding how that bridge's bearings work. We could do with a few close up quality photos of the, um, ends.

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on May 12, 2023, 19:49:05
I wouldn't have thought the embankment would be cut back further than absolutely necessary - to do otherwise would increase the cost and duration of the repair -  so somebody must surely have concluded there is an awful lot of unstable ground around the south abutment.

Moving earth around has got so quick and easy with modern machinery that I don't suppose it's a big issue any more. You have only to look at any building site, even a couple of houses, to see how much moving earth back and forth goes on and how few people it takes to do it.

So I think it looks like working space they are creating. I'm sure there will be very strict rules and restraints to prevent anyone working underneath that bridge of Damocles. Incidentally, I've seen no sign of anything holding that span in place, to prevent it moving on or off its bearings or the jacks. Surely that's essential in a case like this?

As is often the case nowadays the back fill can be blocks made from a styrene based product which does not require compacting.

New Friday video from Network Rail Western.

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1657030370897055744

I'm no closer to understanding how that bridge's bearings work. We could do with a few close up quality photos of the, um, ends.

Mark

A quick Google provided this definition - Bridge bearings are the devices that transfer the traffic loading and the weight of the bridge from the superstructure to the substructure. Bearings also allow the bridge to expand and contract, as well as allowing for rotation of the beams as they deflect under live loads.
This webpage might help https://theconstructor.org/structures/bridge-bearings-types-details/18062/


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on May 12, 2023, 21:28:10
That page is a good resource - I meant to say it's not clear what the provision is at Nuneham.

The pair of bowstring spans look to be in contact at the pier in the centre of the river: perhaps at the landward end of each there are simple sliding bearings to provide for movement and those are prone to seizing - at the time the bridge was reconstructed before 1910, engineers would have been familiar with various types to cope with different types of motion and loadings.

There's also the question of whether the design of the bearings allowed the failing span to start 'Walking' laterally.

The choice of bearing is a bit of a window into the understanding of the designers of the structure - the nature of the movement that at the time they antipated they'd need to cater for. Network Rail will have something in hand on this though.

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on May 12, 2023, 21:55:56
My thoughts are that they’d somehow link the two spans in the middle, and make that a single fixed point, with any sliding being done at both the land abutments? 

That would be logical for ease of access if the sliding surfaces or maybe rollers had to be maintained.

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on May 13, 2023, 09:59:51
From my short time designing bridges I recall the following:

1) You need rotation at both ends though only one end needs to slide.  Both ends should be maintained. 
2) Always overdesign the bearings - they sound expensive, but replacing them is more than 10 times the initial cost and over 100 times the marginal cost of a bigger bearing!

Modern elastomeric bearings may require less maintenance than the traditional roller bearing designs used when the bridge was built, but I don't know if they would be suitable for this type of bridge where the load is transferred at the corners of each deck. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on May 13, 2023, 10:33:46
... this type of bridge where the load is transferred at the corners of each deck. 

... and in the middle of the ends, made more complicated by the skew and the resulting stagger between the two sides.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on May 13, 2023, 11:13:38
... this type of bridge where the load is transferred at the corners of each deck. 

... and in the middle of the ends, made more complicated by the skew and the resulting stagger between the two sides.
Did you notice at all that in some of the later photographs, eg #193, the centre main girder seems to be slightly lower than the sides? That is, the cross beams appear to pass over its bottom plate?  I originally thought the three bow string arches would be roughly the same size, but logically the centre one would need to be significantly stronger I suppose, like the keel of a ship.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on May 13, 2023, 12:08:55
Screengrab from Network Rail's friday video.

Network Rail will have close up and quality photos to record the state of this part of the structure.

(https://i.postimg.cc/0Nt7v87t/nuneham-southern-span-end-suspended.jpg)

The screengrab deserves to be captioned in a way that credits a certain station between Cardiff and Port Talbot, but given its continued newsworthiness I'm still referring to this as the 'Paul Clifton Suspension Bridge'.

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on May 13, 2023, 12:45:37
... this type of bridge where the load is transferred at the corners of each deck. 

... and in the middle of the ends, made more complicated by the skew and the resulting stagger between the two sides.


Good point.  I had assumed from some of the historical descriptions that each track had a separate bridge deck. I was wrong. Also I had not appreciated that there was a skew. Interesting that the central beam appears to project further back into the the abutment than either of the side beams.

I suspect someone has now made careful measurements of the ends of the trusses and will be designing fabricating some new steelwork to attache the new bridge bearings.   


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on May 13, 2023, 13:57:43
Is it the case that this aspect of the steel spans at Nuneham is rather peculiar and possibly uncommon?

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on May 13, 2023, 14:12:31
Is it the case that this aspect of the steel spans at Nuneham is rather peculiar and possibly uncommon?

Mark

I doubt it. Nobody laid out a railway line with turns so as to line up exactly at right angles to every road or river! I suspect most bridges are skew, though some shorter ones have their abutments turned to be true to the bridge.

Interesting that the central beam appears to project further back into the the abutment than either of the side beams.

If you draw a line between the ends of the two side beams that's true. I think the centre beam is longer than the side beams, so that each half deck ends at right angles to the bridge axis. You can see this, just about, in other parts of the video. How else would you do it?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on May 13, 2023, 14:17:24
Is it the case that this aspect of the steel spans at Nuneham is rather peculiar and possibly uncommon?

Mark

Look at the 2 road over rail bridges on the approach to Paddington very large skew bowstring bridges about the same vintage as Nuneham


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on May 13, 2023, 16:54:31
Interesting that the central beam appears to project further back into the the abutment than either of the side beams.

If you draw a line between the ends of the two side beams that's true. I think the centre beam is longer than the side beams, so that each half deck ends at right angles to the bridge axis. You can see this, just about, in other parts of the video. How else would you do it?

Ah that makes sense, though not obvious from the screen grab.  I must look at the whole video again.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on May 16, 2023, 14:05:53
A chap called Brian Daniels has taken a good sequence of photos yesterday, with the piling rig in action, they can be found on his Flickr photo stream here:

https://flic.kr/p/2oAGjij

It’s possible to get an idea how close to the end of the span the piles are being installed.  There’s a good shot showing the mid-stream pier, but unfortunately there’s no details of any of the span centre bearings or securing points, must be hidden by masonry?

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on May 16, 2023, 15:12:35
Thanks for that link, those are crisp photos.

Indeed, no indication that the bridge is carried on more than rudimentary fixed steel bearers at the centre pier and ditto, perhaps originally sliding, at the land abutments. This is the sort of bearing used at the likes of Finmere's long out-of-use rail over road bridge. The Finmere example nmaintained since whenever and thoroughly seized, those had worked their masonry bearers loose and generally caused mischief. Whether those at Nuneham, to add to the merriment, were able to wiggle that abutment like a loose tooth is another matter.

Another of those photos is a good portrayal of the structure's deck as set on the centre pier being deliberately canted, as the line, crossing the river, is on a curve.

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on May 16, 2023, 15:26:16
Not sure if these are from the same source:
https://twitter.com/sonic_speedbird/status/1658464574428028929?cxt=HHwWgoDR9cqvhoQuAAAA (https://twitter.com/sonic_speedbird/status/1658464574428028929?cxt=HHwWgoDR9cqvhoQuAAAA)
via Paul Clifton


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on May 17, 2023, 17:29:30
Images from Network Rail on Twitter show the progress with the row of piles, they basically line up with the ends of the three main girders, it looks like a small area of deck plating has been removed for vertical access:

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1658843943038009349

I’m surprised they’re saying it’s just starting today 17th, given the previous photos taken on the 15th…

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on May 17, 2023, 18:04:42
Images from Network Rail on Twitter show the progress with the row of piles, they basically line up with the ends of the three main girders, it looks like a small area of deck plating has been removed for vertical access:

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1658843943038009349

I’m surprised they’re saying it’s just starting today 17th, given the previous photos taken on the 15th…

Paul

Is there a difference between foundation piles ie those to support the bridge which may have been augered and filled with reinforced concrete and the abutment piles used to retain the backfill which may be pile driven cam sheets ie "hammered in" ??


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on May 17, 2023, 18:30:51
Images from Network Rail on Twitter show the progress with the row of piles, they basically line up with the ends of the three main girders, it looks like a small area of deck plating has been removed for vertical access:

Exploiting the super-zoom facility of Flickr, you can see what they have done in one of yesterday's pictures. There are two longitudinal members under the deck on each side, resting on the crossbeams. Because of the skew (very clear in today's overhead view) they extend varying amounts beyond the last crossbeam. These stringers are made of short pieces joined by riveted plates, and it looks as if the end piece has been unriveted in each case. While it's hard to see, I think the end crossbeam meets the western (far) side girder right at its end, so part of this must have been unriveted as well. (Yes - that's visible in one of today's pictures.)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on May 17, 2023, 20:49:05
Images from Network Rail on Twitter show the progress with the row of piles, they basically line up with the ends of the three main girders, it looks like a small area of deck plating has been removed for vertical access:

Exploiting the super-zoom facility of Flickr, you can see what they have done in one of yesterday's pictures. There are two longitudinal members under the deck on each side, resting on the crossbeams. Because of the skew (very clear in today's overhead view) they extend varying amounts beyond the last crossbeam. These stringers are made of short pieces joined by riveted plates, and it looks as if the end piece has been unriveted in each case. While it's hard to see, I think the end crossbeam meets the western (far) side girder right at its end, so part of this must have been unriveted as well. (Yes - that's visible in one of today's pictures.)

New parts, stringers, cross members may be being fabricated to match the new bearings,


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on May 18, 2023, 12:00:54
New parts, stringers, cross members may be being fabricated to match the new bearings,

Yes I would guess already designed and with the fabricators for production. 


I also notice they have scaffolded the central support so perhaps the central bearings are being given some attention as well. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: CyclingSid on May 21, 2023, 07:26:16
Latest sitrep: https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1659603035214037004?cxt=HHwWmIC-4dyKjIguAAAA (https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1659603035214037004?cxt=HHwWmIC-4dyKjIguAAAA)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on May 23, 2023, 17:32:37
A further update here. (https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/railway-through-oxfordshire-on-track-for-return-in-june-as-nuneham-viaduct-repairs-pass-key-milestone) The video was obviously filmed a few days ago, but the picture in the web page is newer:
(https://cdn.prgloo.com/media/706c37f09a9b4e1caaeb7a8e6000d579.jpg?width=1135&height=960)




Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on May 23, 2023, 18:28:15
That link doesn't work - it seems to have some '%' signs embedded.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on May 23, 2023, 18:59:42
That link doesn't work - it seems to have some '%' signs embedded.

Sorry - my mistake.

A note about dates: Stuart Calvert talks about the "1856 timber structure" - but the original timber bridge was built in 1843, and by inference its abutment was reused in 1856 and 1916 for the two iron bridges. The GWR magazine (posted earlier) only said it was "constructed under the Oxford Railway Act, 1843", and was "replaced in 1849-50". So who's right? I've been looking for old newspapers...

I have just found a piece in the Berkshire Chronicle of 11 November 1843 saying that the first Nuneham bridge started building "on Saturday, and will be completed in about five weeks." As the 11th was a Saturday, that start date was the 4th. I can't find completion recorded, but the line was opened on Wednesday June 12th 1844, and the "journey is performed in something under two hours and a half" (London-Oxford).

For the second bridge, there is a detailed report (Oxford Journal Saturday 20 September 1856) of the inquest into Henry Collett's death by drowning in the Thames. He was a labourer working on the new Nuneham bridge, and "late of Appleford", and several workmates gave evidence. He was last seen alive on Tuesday 9th September, and found under the new bridge on Monday 15th. We don't know from that how long the work took before and after, but those Victorians would likely not need all of a year for that job.

There was another inquest, into the death of a young lad working on the new bridge at Appleford, and that happened in July 1856. So it appears both bridges were rebuilt in wrought iron at the same time. If they were built the same way, at the same time, in the same river, it is pretty likely they both needed replacement together, and of course if the line has to be closed you'd rather do both within one closure.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on May 30, 2023, 18:29:15
Another update video (https://twitter.com/i/status/1663594828788006938) from Network Rail via Twitter


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on May 31, 2023, 07:01:47
That link doesn't work - it seems to have some '%' signs embedded.

Sorry - my mistake.

A note about dates: Stuart Calvert talks about the "1856 timber structure" - but the original timber bridge was built in 1843, and by inference its abutment was reused in 1856 and 1916 for the two iron bridges. The GWR magazine (posted earlier) only said it was "constructed under the Oxford Railway Act, 1843", and was "replaced in 1849-50". So who's right? I've been looking for old newspapers...

I have just found a piece in the Berkshire Chronicle of 11 November 1843 saying that the first Nuneham bridge started building "on Saturday, and will be completed in about five weeks." As the 11th was a Saturday, that start date was the 4th. I can't find completion recorded, but the line was opened on Wednesday June 12th 1844, and the "journey is performed in something under two hours and a half" (London-Oxford).

For the second bridge, there is a detailed report (Oxford Journal Saturday 20 September 1856) of the inquest into Henry Collett's death by drowning in the Thames. He was a labourer working on the new Nuneham bridge, and "late of Appleford", and several workmates gave evidence. He was last seen alive on Tuesday 9th September, and found under the new bridge on Monday 15th. We don't know from that how long the work took before and after, but those Victorians would likely not need all of a year for that job.

There was another inquest, into the death of a young lad working on the new bridge at Appleford, and that happened in July 1856. So it appears both bridges were rebuilt in wrought iron at the same time. If they were built the same way, at the same time, in the same river, it is pretty likely they both needed replacement together, and of course if the line has to be closed you'd rather do both within one closure.

Stuart Calvert date reference is likely to be based on the record drawings held by Network Rail. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on May 31, 2023, 09:54:35
And more from Paul Clifton of the BBC on Twitter (https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1663798034419818496?s=20)


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on May 31, 2023, 10:10:37
That link doesn't work - it seems to have some '%' signs embedded.

Sorry - my mistake.

A note about dates: Stuart Calvert talks about the "1856 timber structure"

I've lost track of the video that showed a pile of timber - Stuart Calvert didn't give any context for where they found it.

Was it on the GW Paddington to Bristol line that in some places, embankments were constrained by burying  a pair of timbers at either edge, linked to one another by chains?

At Midford on the S&D on the down side of the line, a trench was dug for services a few years ago, and I was surprised to see that by chance they excavators had chosen exactly the line to encounter an *enormous* buried squared-off bault of timber at the point where the infrastructure transitioned from viaduct to embankment. I wish I'd taken a photo. I think it was simply reburied.

And of course, wooden viaducts replaced by embankments were sometimes simply buried, sometimes with unintended consequences. Contractors encountered one of those at the east end of Shakespeare Cliff tunnel in Dover, Kent. Back in coffeeshopland, there's likely another lurking beneath the formation on the approach to Penzance, as that was built across the foreshore and carried on a wooden viaduct. And is there another buried one on the Falmouth branch?

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: bradshaw on May 31, 2023, 12:08:48
Attached is a classic example. The 1857 original timber bridge on the GWR Weymouth line was simply covered over when the line was doubled in the 1880s.

Then in the late 1980s it was rebuilt again, this time to provide clearance for the western arm of the Dorchester bypass(A37). I was called in by Dorset County Museum and was shown the site, after the line reopened, there is still timber buried there.

British Rail kindly gave the Museum and myself copied of the photographs they had taken, one of which is seen here


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on May 31, 2023, 12:38:23
Attached is a classic example. The 1857 original timber bridge on the GWR Weymouth line was simply covered over when the line was doubled in the 1880s.

Then in the late 1980s it was rebuilt again, this time to provide clearance for the western arm of the Dorchester bypass(A37). I was called in by Dorset County Museum and was shown the site, after the line reopened, there is still timber buried there.

British Rail kindly gave the Museum and myself copied of the photographs they had taken, one of which is seen here


A similar thing was done at Shakespeare Cliff near Dover, the original 1848 wooden trestles along the English Channel Beach these were encased was a chalk infill in 1927 when a new sea wall was built.  A storm in 2014 breached the concrete sea wall washing the chalk infill out.

There will be many other such "cover ups" on the network  ;D   


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on June 05, 2023, 12:26:30
Latest Network Rail summary on Twitter says that the viaduct is back in place and they’re reballasting etc:
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1665658184772599808


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on June 05, 2023, 15:09:24
In the second of the photos in the Twitter link, they are reinstating the deck plates, (that I assume were removed to make room for piling), does anyone know if the lines of domed heads showing are rivets, or if they are some sort of bolt or screw designed to look like rivets? 

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Mark A on June 05, 2023, 18:38:42
Think there's a couple of those fastenings lying spare on the deck and they may or may not be called 'Carriage bolts'.

Someone somewhere must have been with child to have the opportunity to clean all that steel back to bare metal and apply the appropriate surface coating system with a correctly coloured top coat - the structure being colloquially known as 'Black bridge', not 'Brown bridge'.

Mark


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: paul7575 on June 05, 2023, 19:32:49
Think there's a couple of those fastenings lying spare on the deck and they may or may not be called 'Carriage bolts'.

Mark

Ah, I’ve since found another possibility, specifically designed to replace rivets on bridges etc, called “tension control bolts”. They look very similar to the one you’ve pointed out in the photo, that I missed first time:

https://www.tcbolts.com/en/products/tcb-standard

Their website mentions a number of previous rail related contracts, half a million in the Forth Bridge for example:

https://www.tcbolts.com/en/projects/bridges/rivet-replacement

Paul


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ray951 on June 08, 2023, 22:01:42
Good news an empty coaching stock train ran from Oxford to Oxford via Didcot across Nuneham bridge this evening
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:66637/2023-06-08/detailed (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:66637/2023-06-08/detailed)

And there are also services in the real time trains for tomorrow across the bridge.

If the bridge is now open, congratulations to all the NR staff and contractors for delivering on time, I for one will be glad to get back on the train and avoid travelling on the A34.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 08, 2023, 22:42:43
A fantastic achievement! It's amazing what engineers can achieve if you just let them get on with it!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: grahame on June 09, 2023, 02:47:12
Quote
07:10 Oxford to Didcot Parkway due 07:27

An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 07:10 Oxford to Didcot Parkway due 07:27.

Hurrah!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ChrisB on June 09, 2023, 06:51:27
There’s also  a stopper to Didcot shown on planners for 0749 this morning


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Witham Bobby on June 09, 2023, 09:36:47
Huzzah!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 09, 2023, 09:53:28
Well done to all concerned - hopefully "prevention is better than cure" will be the mantra going forward!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on June 09, 2023, 10:14:33
Here's Network Rail's news release (https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/rail-passengers-on-the-move-again-through-nuneham-as-major-project-to-replace-160-year-old-viaduct-support-completes-ahead-of-schedule):
Quote
(https://cdn.prgloo.com/media/00432ebe66f147c08ca34afb2503c513.png?width=1135&height=960)
Friday 9 Jun 2023
Rail passengers on the move again through Nuneham as major project to replace 160-year-old viaduct support completes ahead of schedule

Engineers have worked around the clock to safely reopen Nuneham Viaduct, in Oxfordshire, a day early, on Friday 9 June, following an intensive ten-week programme of work.

The railway between Didcot and Oxford was closed on Monday 3 April after significant movements in the viaduct were detected due to emerging structural issues with the south bank abutment (structure that supports the bridge). The abutment was built as part of the original viaduct in 1856.

The rail industry, including Great Western Railway (GWR), Chiltern Railways and CrossCountry, worked closely to keep passengers moving during the closure, whilst Network Rail’s engineers and contractors at Balfour Beatty carried out emergency repairs, which completed, ahead of schedule.

On Friday 9 June, the first passenger service to cross the viaduct in just under ten weeks was a GWR shuttle train between Oxford and Didcot. A full timetable for all train operators is planned to resume from Saturday 10 June.

A major project

Around 800 people have worked nearly 60,000 hours, to successfully install the new steel support, which will secure the future of this important rail link for generations to come.

In the final week of the major project, the 150-tonne bridge was lowered onto the new abutment, a new embankment built, before the railway tracks and cables were put back in place.

The repair of the viaduct has been complex, challenging and required some heavy engineering:

    24 x 15m long steel piles were driven into the bed of the River Thames to create a solid platform for the temporary structure that held the weight of the viaduct while the abutment was demolished and rebuilt. 
    Eight more piles were driven up to 20m into the embankment to support the new structure.
    A 750-tonne crane was used to lift the temporary structure into place.
    4,500 tonnes of material removed from the old embankment 
    5,500 tonnes of material brought back in to build the new embankment

Engineers will remain on site for up to 12 weeks to finish works and demobilise the construction site, working outside of train operating hours, whilst track, signalling and station upgrades continue in Oxford city centre*...

Notes to Editors

*From Saturday 29 July until the early hours of Monday 7 August Network Rail will be working to upgrade the track just north of Oxford Station - installing new high speed crossovers. To the south of the station,  Osney Lane footbridge will be modified, moving one of the piers to make way for track layout changes. Work will also be carried out to adjust the coping stones on platforms inside the station.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 10, 2023, 16:10:48
Discussion about Oxford Station split off and merged at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=593.315


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on June 13, 2023, 16:01:37
First trip to London since the abutment failure.  Many thanks to Network Rail's engineers for making it possible!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on June 15, 2023, 20:54:03
Indeed - great to have it back. Though a fair few Cotswold–Oxford commuters had been rather enjoying the more reliable service not impacted by GWML delays!


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 29, 2023, 16:19:33
Did a return Didcot - Oxford today; noted that trains are running at reduced speed over the bridge.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 29, 2023, 17:12:06
Did a return Didcot - Oxford today; noted that trains are running at reduced speed over the bridge.

50mph TSR.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 29, 2023, 23:09:05
Did a return Didcot - Oxford today; noted that trains are running at reduced speed over the bridge.

50mph TSR.

Is that likely to be there just until they’ve completely demobilised from site?


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 01, 2023, 16:41:11
50mph TSR.

Is that likely to be there just until they’ve completely demobilised from site?

Yes, I would imagine so.  A short 50mph restriction from a 90mph line speed won’t cause too many problems.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: ellendune on July 01, 2023, 21:48:18
50mph TSR.

Is that likely to be there just until they’ve completely demobilised from site?

Yes, I would imagine so.  A short 50mph restriction from a 90mph line speed won’t cause too many problems.

New ballast likely to settle for a few weeks? So will need to watch the track alignment for a bit. 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: Electric train on July 02, 2023, 09:17:56
50mph TSR.

Is that likely to be there just until they’ve completely demobilised from site?

Yes, I would imagine so.  A short 50mph restriction from a 90mph line speed won’t cause too many problems.

Couple of things that may be the need for the TSR

The rail may need stressing, this where CWR is tensioned to the nominal temprature for 20deg C
Final Tamping and alignment needed
The stability of the replaced Southern embankment my need to be monitored for settlement
The new bridge abutment piles may need to be monitored for settlement 


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 03, 2023, 16:51:30
Quote from: Red Squirrel link
Is that likely to be there just until they’ve completely demobilised from site?

Yes, I would imagine so.  A short 50mph restriction from a 90mph line speed won’t cause too many problems.

Well imagine that, I was wrong!  Back to linespeed from today.


Title: Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure
Post by: stuving on July 15, 2023, 18:34:32
Lest we get too carried away with appreciation for the work that rebuilt this bridge abutment, I was struck by this when I came across it. On 31st December 1862 part of a new viaduct on the Metropolan Extension Line near Clapham (now High Street) station sank into the ground! It's the nine arches beside Lendal (ex-York) Terrace. One of the piers was seen to move, and then "before long it had subsided upwards of four feet into the earth"!

The attached is from the Morning Herald (London) 20 January 1863, and the BL say is public domain. I can find no report to say the line did open on 1st February, nor that it didn't - but no news is good news, so I guess it did. So that's three weeks to clear the site, dig a hole to find out what is (or more importantly isn't) down there to support all these bricks, and build the new section. Then another week to lay the track and do whatever Victorians did to imitate a tamper, and presumably get it inspected.



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net