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Journey by Journey => Swindon to Gloucester / Cheltenham => Topic started by: ReWind on October 15, 2013, 22:11:56



Title: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: ReWind on October 15, 2013, 22:11:56
4M36  Cardiff Wentloog - Daventry has derailed on the Up through at Gloucester Station.  All lines around the station are currently blocked.  The avoiding lines are still available.

Description of the incident;

"20:24 Gloucester signaller called to advise he has multiple track circuit failures in Gloucester Station and West End. He is unable to give any further updates at the moment as he is putting out an emergency call o the surrounding trains. 20:25 Block put on with Bristol PSB and Midland TRC for all traffic booked to pass through Gloucester. 20:27 Gloucester signaller has now advised he thinks 4M36 may have derailed in the station. TRC has been asked to put a block on both ends of the station. 20:30 Block put on with Cardiff TRC 20:30 ISC has left messages for on call S&T. P-Way have also been contacted, they are calling back with an ETA. 20:31 UM118, RC, RD (Keynes Xing) RE (Over LC) RF RG (at 735 points) RH RK RL RN RP. All on the up. Driver is examinging train. 20:37 MC appointed ARM 20:35."

This will no doubt overflow into tomorrow mornings start up at Gloucester with displaced stock etc.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: bobm on October 15, 2013, 22:26:00
Apparently one wagon is resting against London Road bridge.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 16, 2013, 00:50:07
Apparently the rear wagon lost its container and rear wheelset some 1 mile to the rear of where the train came to a halt.

1 mile of track has been damaged and structures are being checked.

RAIB are on site.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: bobm on October 16, 2013, 00:59:30
Standby road replacement buses have been ordered for the morning for both Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 16, 2013, 05:36:01
According to Network Rail, following the damage caused to infrastructure, the line between Gloucester and Lydney is likely to remain closed for up to a week.

CrossCountry services between Nottingham and Cardiff are being terminated/started at Gloucester. Passengers for South Wales are being told to travel with CrossCountry to Bristol Parkway and change onto FGW services there. Reverse applies for journeys from South Wales to Cheltenham Spa and beyond.

Arriva Trains Wales services between Maesteg/Cardiff and Cheltenham Spa are terminating/starting at Lydney. Replacement road transport, running hourly, will operate between Lydney and Cheltenham Spa calling at Gloucester.

First Great Western services calling at Gloucester continue to operate, although they may be subject to delay/alteration due to reduced capacity at Gloucester station.

Arriva Trains Wales and First Great Western are accepting CrossCountry tickets via any reasonable route until further notice.

Freight that would normally travel via Lydney is being diverted through the Severn Tunnel.

Let's hope there are no problems in the tunnel over the next few days.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: bobm on October 16, 2013, 07:38:31
This might have a knock on effect with other planned engineering work this weekend as London to South Wales services are due to operate via Gloucester.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: ellendune on October 16, 2013, 07:52:47
That's going to be an awful lot of delay minutes. Is that all going to be charged to the organisation responsible for the derailment when that is known?


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 16, 2013, 14:56:30
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-24549694):

Quote
Gloucestershire to Wales line closed after derailment

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/70512000/jpg/_70512862_70512858.jpg)
The train derailed while travelling close to London Road in Gloucester

A railway line between Gloucestershire and Wales is likely to be closed for four days following a derailment.

A freight train carrying containers came off the tracks west of Gloucester station at 20:30 BST on Tuesday.

An empty container came off the wagon and "remains on the railway infrastructure". Nobody was injured.

The Rail Accident Investigation Branch said it was sending a team to the scene to determine how it happened.

The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) said the derailment was "deeply worrying".

"[It] suggests that the policy of cutting maintenance jobs and casualising key works out to private agencies and contractors is coming back to haunt transport services with a vengeance," the union said.

Network Rail said the RMT's view on the cause was "speculation".

Direct Rail Services, which was running the service, said recovery operations had begun to move the front of the train to a safe position.

The derailment caused debris to fall on a nearby road, British Transport Police said.

The police helicopter was called to help with the search for the container, which was found later.

The National Police Air Service tweeted it "certainly isn't something we look for on a regular basis".

Network Rail said the derailment was likely to cause problems until the weekend.

A spokesman said passengers heading towards Wales should travel to Bristol Parkway and change there.

Trains running towards Bristol and London are unaffected by the derailment.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: LiskeardRich on October 16, 2013, 15:04:36
How did it lose a container so badly it needed a police helicopter to search for it? Its not like its a small object that will get lost in the overgrowth!


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: ChrisB on October 16, 2013, 15:20:08
Coz the train continued some distance before coming to a halt in the dark.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 16, 2013, 16:01:06
It appears that the location of the container that made a break for freedom was somewhat fortuitous, coming to rest at a point where the infrastructure was able to, er, contain it. And seeing the logo on the side you could say, because of that, that "Every Little Helps."  ;D

And Rentagob Crow should put a sock in it. It's the RAIB's job to find the cause and make recommendations, not his.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: eightf48544 on October 16, 2013, 16:02:03
This might have a knock on effect with other planned engineering work this weekend as London to South Wales services are due to operate via Gloucester.

Interesting i'm due to go through Gloucester to/from Cardiff Saturday might be interesting.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: ChrisB on October 16, 2013, 16:11:29
Suspended until Monday, according to National Rail Enquiries (NRE - is that in the Glossaty? :-))


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: phile on October 16, 2013, 16:12:57
Weekend Engineering Work cancelled so South Wales trains will go via Severn Tunnel


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: chuffed on October 16, 2013, 16:21:45
A sensible move otherwise they might have had HST diversions up to Birmingham/ Shrewsbury and down the Heart of Wales line to Swansea !


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: eightf48544 on October 16, 2013, 16:33:00
Wonder whether they are going to retime or will we hang around Newport on the way out and Swindon on the way back, maybe I'll make the earlier train at Reading but miss my pint.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 16, 2013, 17:15:22
A sensible move otherwise they might have had HST diversions up to Birmingham/ Shrewsbury and down the Heart of Wales line to Swansea !

No need to go quite that far. There's Worcester, then Hereford to Newport via Abergavenny on the Welsh Marches Line. With a few FGW HST drivers who sign Cheltenham to Worcester and Hereford to Newport.  ;)


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: anthony215 on October 16, 2013, 17:15:42
Network Rail have cancelled engineering work this weekend so that services can travel through the Severn Tunnel.

The line between Lydney and Gloucester is likely to be closed for a few days. I bet there is going to be some disruption trying to get everything through the Severn Tunnel especially since now other train can travel through the tunnel while the Roberston - Westerleigh tanks are traveling through.

Even the police helicopter got called out last night to search for the missing container which has ended up on a road.

Not been a good week for container trains has it.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: ReWind on October 16, 2013, 17:27:52

The line between Lydney and Gloucester is likely to be closed for a few days. I bet there is going to be some disruption trying to get everything through the Severn Tunnel.

I too thought this but after viewing the freight schedule for the next couple of days, we are only talking an extra freight approximately every 90mins on average in each direction through daytime hours.  A bit more late evening and overnight but with reduced passenger services by this time it shouldn't cause too much of a problem.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 16, 2013, 18:03:29
Suspended until Monday, according to National Rail Enquiries (NRE - is that in the Glossaty? :-))

Assuming that you actually meant to refer to our 'acronyms and abbreviations (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html)' page, ChrisB - yes, it is:

Quote
NRES ... National Rail Enquiry Service

 ;)


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: phile on October 16, 2013, 20:47:54
Wonder whether they are going to retime or will we hang around Newport on the way out and Swindon on the way back, maybe I'll make the earlier train at Reading but miss my pint.

The trains will run to a special Timetable which should resemble the normal Timetable and which should resume the following week.    There is nothing in National Rail Journey Planner - still shewn via Gloucester.
Surely you wouldn't expect them to block up Platforms at Newport and Swindon for an hour.  Replacement trains  will run between Gloucester and Swindon and vice versa..


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: bobm on October 16, 2013, 21:04:53
There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding the weekend engineering work.  As of 5pm the plan seems to have changed again and to go ahead with the closure of the Severn Tunnel.

Just looked now and, for example, there is a 12:15 service from Paddington on Saturday to Bristol Temple Meads via Bristol Parkway with a bus connection from Parkway to Newport and then a train followed by a 12:45 departure from Paddington calling at Kemble, Stroud, Stonehouse, Gloucester, Severn Tunnel Junction and usual calls in South Wales.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 17, 2013, 01:40:15
The BBC have updated their coverage of the incident, including a video news report that was included on BBC Points West this evening (16/10/2013).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-24559634

From the video it's now apparent that the container seen in earlier photographs on the London Road bridge in Gloucester was not the one that derailed. it was another wagon behind this one (looks like the last one of the consist) that somehow lost both its wheelsets and dumped its container on the permanent way. Also from the video, its now more apparent as to why the copper chopper was called out.

Network Rail will do well to have the line reopened in time to allow the scheduled maintenance to take place between Bristol Parkway and Severn Tunnel Junction. I'm fairly confident that a Plan B will be available if NR can't open the Gloucester- Newport line in time for the 0200 Sat 19/10/2013 possession of the Severn Tunnel.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: ChrisB on October 17, 2013, 06:49:02
Network Rail have cancelled engineering work this weekend so that services can travel through the Severn Tunnel.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: LiskeardRich on October 17, 2013, 10:14:57
Chris B, is has apparently been un-cancelled and is back on, and Network Rail have been issued a deadline of 0200 to have this route reopened on Saturday morning.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: eightf48544 on October 17, 2013, 10:43:12
What happens if they don't reopen by 02:00 Saturday? Do they close the Severn Tunnel and presumably run buses from Parkway to Newport?

Hardly makes it worth my while going do you think I could get a refund or change my tickets (advanced) free of charge?


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: anthony215 on October 17, 2013, 12:34:09
If the line via Gloucester is not ready then there is a possibility that the start of engineering works ould be pushed back to start later or be cancelled altogether and replanned for another weekend


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: phile on October 17, 2013, 16:52:35
I wonder what the state of play will be at 0200 on Saturday.    Any major job takes as long as it takes.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 17, 2013, 20:00:08
National Rail Enquiries are saying that full repairs to the line between Gloucester and Lydney are due to be completed on Friday night.

If that is so then the planned possession of the Severn Tunnel will go ahead from 0200 on Saturday morning and services that use the tunnel will be diverted via Lydney as originally planned.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: eightf48544 on October 18, 2013, 09:41:04
Looks like I may get to Cardiff on Saturday when I expected to.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: phile on October 18, 2013, 15:39:53
FGW could have been more forthcoming by keeping people up-dated on their Website.
After posting that the Severn Tunnel Engineering Work had been cancelled, they just removed it instead of saying so and given an explanation.   FGW Journey Check still talks of a decision to be made re the Weekend.      This situation has caused much confusion among potential passengers and others who have just been left up in the air.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: bobm on October 18, 2013, 15:44:23
I agree the website has been less than forthcoming.  Mind you they still haven't mentioned the franchise award yet which you would have thought was worthy of inclusion.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: Timmer on October 18, 2013, 16:01:47
I agree the website has been less than forthcoming.
Sadly not for the first time either.

Quote
Mind you they still haven't mentioned the franchise award yet which you would have thought was worthy of inclusion.
Yes you would have thought they would want to blow their trumpet a bit about this.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 18, 2013, 18:51:27
Looks like I may get to Cardiff on Saturday when I expected to.

Indeed eightf.

The most recent update from FGW at 1618 today read:

Quote
The infrastructure damage west of Gloucester, is now expected to be repaired in time for the planned closing of the Seven Tunnel, this weekend, for engineering improvement work to go ahead. First Great Western services will run via Gloucester and Lydney as per the published amended timetable. Customers are advised to please check their journey before travelling.

However, do note that caveat in the final sentence.



EDIT: And re-reading my post and the quoted text (sic). Does anyone know where Tunnels One to Six are?  ::)


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: bobm on October 19, 2013, 06:46:24
The line between Gloucester and Lydney reopened shortly after 3 this morning. However there is a speed restriction over a six mile section for trains heading north towards Gloucester.

The first up Swansea service of the day has run via Gloucester and Kemble.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: eightf48544 on October 19, 2013, 07:07:52
Thanks for the update Bobm looks like i may get there.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 19, 2013, 21:13:30
EDIT: And re-reading my post and the quoted text (sic). Does anyone know where Tunnels One to Six are?  ::)

Pedant.  :P ;) ;D


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 19, 2013, 21:29:09
Were wud we be if peeple did'nt analey point owt miner typo's?

Back to the matter in hand. Well done to Network Rail for getting the line between Gloucester and Lydney reopened so swiftly after what was, by all accounts, some significant damage.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: eightf48544 on October 20, 2013, 08:38:47
Well got through to Cardiff OK. Interesting looked out from Gloucester to Lydney at UP line and didn't see any evidence of dmageAlthough there was a copound with a lot of equipement in part way along.

Perhaps the damage wsn't as bad as first thought anyrate well done Network Rail for reopening teh line and letting me have my day in Cardiff,


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 25, 2013, 15:57:46
From the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/current_investigations_register/131015_gloucester.cfm):

Quote
RAIB investigation - Gloucester derailment

The RAIB is investigating the derailment of a freight train that happened at around 20:15 hrs on 15 October 2013, on the approach to Gloucester on the railway line from Newport via Lydney.

The train comprised a class 66 locomotive and 14 twin container flat wagons, loaded with curtain sided containers. It was travelling at a speed of around 69 mph (111 km/h) when the rear axle of the rear wagon derailed around 4 miles (6.5 km) from Gloucester. The maximum permitted speed for this section of railway line was 90 mph (145 km/h) although the maximum permitted speed for this train was 75 mph (121 km/h).

The train driver was unaware of the derailment and the train continued with one axle derailed for a distance of around 3.8 miles (6.1 km) until, at Gloucester West junction, the derailed wagon collided with a set of facing points while travelling at 22 mph (35 km/h). Here both wheelsets were torn from the rear bogie and the empty container on the rear wagon was thrown off. The driver was slowing the train to comply with line speed restrictions and remained unaware of the derailment.

The train then continued towards Gloucester causing further damage to the track and wagon, damaging two bridges and throwing some debris onto a road below. As the train arrived into Gloucester station, the driver brought the train to a stand after he received an emergency message from the signaller over the cab radio system, calling for all trains in the Gloucester area to stop. The signaller had become aware of the derailment through damage to the signalling system. No one was injured as a result of this accident.

(http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Gloucester-1.jpg)
Image of the derailed wagon outside Gloucester station

Examination of the line on the approach to the point at which the rear axle derailed, revealed evenly spaced dips in the rails which resulted in regular variations in the vertical height of the track; a phenomenon known as cyclic top.

(http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Gloucester-2.jpg)
Image of the track on the approach to where the rear axle of the rear wagon derailed

The RAIB^s investigation will seek to identify the sequence of events leading to the derailment. It will consider how the track was maintained and why the train was permitted to run at a high speed over a section of track with cyclic top. It will also consider the design of the wagon and why the container fell off the wagon.

The RAIB^s investigation is independent of any investigation by the Office of Rail Regulation.

The RAIB will publish its findings, including any recommendations to improve safety, at the conclusion of its investigation. This report will be available on the RAIB website.

You can subscribe to automated emails (http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/newsletter_subscription.cfm) notifying you when the RAIB publishes its report and bulletins.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 26, 2013, 12:46:04
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-24676617):

Quote
Derailment near Gloucester 'on track with defect'

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/70715000/jpg/_70715682_5b51f40d-f90d-4e8a-bfec-9722c3d4a225.jpg)
Wheel sets were torn from the rear bogie and the empty container on the rear wagon was thrown off

A freight train that derailed near to Gloucester railway station was travelling at high speed on track with a minor defect, a report has shown.

The Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) is investigating the incident which happened on 15 October.

The line was closed for three days while a container that fell off a wagon was recovered and the track repaired.

The RAIB said the train had travelled for more than four miles before the driver realised anything was wrong.

The train, which had come from Newport via Lydney, was travelling at about 69mph (111km/h) when the rear axle of the rear wagon derailed about 4 miles (6.5 km) from Gloucester, the RAIB said.

Both wheel sets were torn from the rear bogie and the empty container on the rear wagon was thrown off.

The maximum permitted speed for the train on the section of track was 75mph (121km/h), the RAIB said.

A spokesman said there were evenly spaced dips in the rails which resulted in regular variations in the vertical height of the track - a phenomenon known as cyclic top.

A full investigation will consider how the track was maintained and why the train was allowed to run at a high speed over this section, the spokesman added.

The inquiry will also consider the design of the wagon and why the container fell off it.

A spokesman for Network Rail said time was needed to digest the report, and it was too early to comment on it.

Two sets of points, 300 sleepers, two miles of cable and a level crossing had to be replaced after the derailment. No one was injured.

Actually, what the Rail Accident Investigation Branch have published is not their report - they've simply set out the basis of their ongoing investigation.  ::)


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: ellendune on October 26, 2013, 13:18:09
Actually, what the Rail Accident Investigation Branch have published is not their report - they've simply set out the basis of their ongoing investigation.  ::)

Based on RAIB's previous form the report should be due in about 11 months time.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 26, 2013, 21:03:55
Hmm. :-\

To be fair to the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB), and as explained by Richard Harrington in his excellent talk to the West Wiltshire Rail Users Group meeting in Trowbridge on 25 September 2013 (discussed here (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12746.0)), the RAIB do try to publish all of their reports within one year of the occurrence of the incident being investigated.

However, if there were any injuries or fatalities, this often causes the final publication of their report to be delayed whilst all parties involved are consulted, and where necessary counselled, about their findings.  In the case of any incident where nobody was injured, the RAIB reports are generally published within just a few months of that incident.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: John R on October 26, 2013, 21:09:07
Further to Chris' comments, Richard also explained that the industry gets to know the results of the investigation much earlier, so that any lessons can start to be implemented.  I'd also say that a reading of many of the investigations demonstrates the forensic nature of the investigation and the diligence with which the RAIB conduct their work. I'd rather a thorough report that took a year to reach the public domain than a slapdash one that took half the time.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 09, 2014, 12:54:10
The RAIB has now released its report into this incident.

Full report can be downloaded at: http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/investigation_reports/reports_2014/report202014.cfm

Quote
Summary:

At about 20:15 hrs on 15 October 2013, a freight train operated by Direct Rail Services, which was carrying containers, derailed about 4 miles (6.4 km) south west of Gloucester station on the railway line from Newport via Lydney. It was travelling at 69 mph (111 km/h) when the rear wheelset of the last wagon in the train derailed on track with regularly spaced dips in both rails, a phenomenon known as cyclic top. The train continued to Gloucester station where it was stopped by the signaller, who had become aware of a possible problem with the train through damage to the signalling system. By the time the train stopped, the rear wagon was severely damaged, the empty container it was carrying had fallen off, and there was damage to four miles of track, signalling cables, four level crossings and two bridges.

The immediate cause of the accident was a cyclic top track defect which caused a wagon that was susceptible to this type of track defect to derail. The dips in the track had formed due to water flowing underneath the track and although the local Network Rail track maintenance team had identified the cyclic top track defect, the repairs it carried out were ineffective. The severity of the dips required immediate action by Network Rail, including the imposition of a speed restriction for the trains passing over it, but no such restriction had been put in place. Speed restrictions had repeatedly been imposed since December 2011 but were removed each time repair work was completed; on each occasion, such work subsequently proved to be ineffective.

The type of wagon that derailed was found to be susceptible to wheel unloading when responding to these dips in the track, especially when loaded with the type of empty container it was carrying. This susceptibility was not identified when the wagon was tested or approved for use on Network Rail^s infrastructure.

The RAIB also observes: the local Network Rail track maintenance team had a shortfall in its manpower resources; and design guidance for the distance between the wheelsets on two-axle wagons could also be applied to the distance between the centres of the bogies on bogie wagons.

The RAIB has made seven recommendations. Four are directed to Network Rail and cover reviewing the drainage in the area where the train derailed, revising processes for managing emergency speed restrictions for cyclic top track defects, providing track maintenance staff with a way of measuring cyclic top after completing repairs, and investigating how cyclic top on steel sleeper track can be effectively repaired. Two are directed to RSSB and cover reviewing how a vehicle^s response to cyclic top is assessed and amending guidance on the design of freight wagons. One is directed to Direct Rail Services and covers mitigating the susceptibility of this type of wagon to cyclic top.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: paul7575 on October 09, 2014, 14:10:48
Just read the report, I definitely know a lot more about 'cyclic top' now...   

Interesting that they seem to be writing off 'steel sleepers' due to the difficult of maintaining track level with manual tools or 'stone blowers', and they suggest they were the wrong choice for this secondary line in the first place, because although secondary as a passenger line no-one seems to have thought of the freight traffic.

Another part of the analysis concerns the suspension performance of the container wagons when empty or lightly loaded - they and their testing and certification come in for a fair amount of criticism.

Paul


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: bobm on October 09, 2014, 14:23:05
The YouTube video from which the stills were taken on Page 45 can be found here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4ntnt4DL60&list=TLW9k3I4Qf2zna7LqcyuZNlApThV-hz8IE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4ntnt4DL60&list=TLW9k3I4Qf2zna7LqcyuZNlApThV-hz8IE)

Scary stuff


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: paul7575 on October 09, 2014, 14:40:15
The YouTube video from which the stills were taken on Page 45 can be found here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4ntnt4DL60&list=TLW9k3I4Qf2zna7LqcyuZNlApThV-hz8IE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4ntnt4DL60&list=TLW9k3I4Qf2zna7LqcyuZNlApThV-hz8IE)

Scary stuff

Note the comments under the video.  "the track was safe to run at that speed , as a BR Tracklayer i have a lot worse and at faster speeds."  ::)

Paul


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: Trowres on October 09, 2014, 23:01:10
The 83 page report has relatively little to say about the train continuing its progress for four miles following derailment, until the signaller concluded that the growing list of track circuit failures (and a point detection failure) warranted stopping the train for examination.

The report refers to a couple of European standards bodies/committees and their analysis of wagon derailment monitoring equipment, which apparently concluded that
Quote
the cost of fitting and maintaining derailment detectors
could not be justified on safety grounds alone. There was a better case for
fitment based on economic grounds, in terms of less infrastructure damage to
repair after a derailment

Now these things are difficult to quantify. The conclusions may well be justified if spending that money elsewhere could prodice a safer railway.

However, beware of "black swans" - things that happen in defiance of conventional risk analysis. Beware also of creeping changes in practice that cause risks to grow and have contributed to some of the major rail incidents of modern times.

This particular derailment was a consequence of dodgy track on a secondary route, but some other type of derailment causing four miles of damage with possible running foul of adjacent lines...platforms...on a busy route could be a lot worse in impact - and even without injuries, closing the line for several days.

I don't particularly wish to lead a demand for ever-more safery paraphernalia. But as the eyes and ears that may detect such derailments are removed from trains...signalboxes...stations...crossings...I don't wish us to sleep-walk into another version of Newton, Hatfield or Southall.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 09, 2014, 23:16:29
One of the toughest, most highly technical, RAIB reports I've read. Hard work.

However, having met an RAIB Investigator, and hearing first hand how they go about the job, I fully understand the need to cover all aspects of an incident, no matter how small or inconsequential those aspects may appear. Or how deeply technical the investigation has to be.

It's worth noting that in this particular incident if the wagon had derailed to the right, and there was a another train passing on the down line, the consequences of this cyclic top phenomenon could have been far worse.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on October 10, 2014, 00:02:03
It's worth noting that in this particular incident if the wagon had derailed to the right, and there was a another train passing on the down line, the consequences of this cyclic top phenomenon could have been far worse.
I thought it did derail to the right.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: JayMac on October 10, 2014, 00:14:42
Yes., sorry. I meant to say further to the right. The leading wheelset of the final bogie stayed on the rails until it encountered the second check rail near Gloucester, until this point the trailing wheelset stayed roughly in line with the tracks.


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on October 10, 2014, 06:32:19
One of the toughest, most highly technical, RAIB reports I've read. Hard work.

Agree completely.

A technical question. In the days when Eurostar used to operate out of Waterloo, there used to be a bit of track just out of Waterloo where the train always ended up bouncing. Was that down to cyclic top - or something else?


Title: Re: Derailed freight train at Gloucester causing severe disruption - 15 October 2013
Post by: 4064ReadingAbbey on October 10, 2014, 22:31:27

A technical question. In the days when Eurostar used to operate out of Waterloo, there used to be a bit of track just out of Waterloo where the train always ended up bouncing. Was that down to cyclic top - or something else?

Once upon a time I lived near Paris and a near neighbour was BR's commissioning engineer for the Eurostar trains. I recall talking to him one evening over a glass of wine (as one does) about the articulation used in the TGVs and the Eurostars and this may explain the effect you noticed. The linkage between the coaches is such that the coach ends can hinge (for curves) and twist relative to each each other but not pitch. This means that the whole train rises and falls together on its suspension. For reasons I can't remember this meant that dampers were not needed across the primary suspension which as a result could be excited into resonance at certain speeds. (As an aside the lack of these dampers is one of the reasons for the silky smooth ride of the TGVs). From memory these speeds were near 40mph and 60mph, which could happen quite frequently in south London on the the route out of Waterloo, but was not such a problem in France where trains got going more smartly! To avoid too much discomfort little white stickers were attached to the speedometers as a reminder to the drivers to avoid these speeds.

Could this correspond with the effect you noticed?



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