Great Western Coffee Shop

The Franchise consultation (Pages 51 & 52) seek to bounce the main issue on fares:


However on a more positive light it does say:


It also raises the issue of ITSO travel cards (like Oyster):


If ITSO is to be implemented then a simplified zonal fares system seems to be the way forward and this would have to get rid of the anomalies that lead to the ridiculous split ticket system.  How would an ITSO card know you were splitting at Didicot unless you physically got off the train and swiped your card?

Many of these anomalies spring from the differences between the areas that were previously in the old Network South East Area and those outside it. 

An ITSO card should also allow you pay the right fare for the train (i.e. off peak or super off-peak) without having to guess that you would be able to do this on your return journey when you were buying an outward ticket earlier in the day. 

These issues were discussed extensively on this forum on http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9296.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9296.0)

I suspect ITSO will go the way of Oyster and only have single fares....

I expect you are right, but if the single fare is always half the return then that should not be an issue.

The ITSO system has a very flexible specification to enable it to be a multi-use card allowing for permits such as season tickets to be on board together with concessionary passes (senior bus cards are already ITSO even if the technology to use it is not in common use) and to carry cash for small transactions such as buying a single ticket or just a daily newspaper. Again as in the case of FGW's failure to invest in car parking facilities as Chiltern has, FGW is behind GoAhead that is using ITSO on its Oxford Bus company operations and has recently started to introduce them on its London Midland trains. The Oyster card, due to its age, has a much more limited scope for use and linking it to the ITSO specification seems to have been very difficult (and expensive).

But I can't see how evben a 'clever' card can predict what time one might return - so to deduct the 'right' return fare is not practical. I can't see anything on offer than single fares, ties to the time of touch-in.

Simplify the tickets then!

Make all singles half the price of a return (by lowering the singes, not raising the returns). Get rid of day tickets - re-use less likely on ITSO.

The evening peak should not exist/doesn't work as has been proved many times - it's purely a money spinner - so that should be axed at the same time, so if you touch in after 9.30am, you're charged the off peak fare -end of.

Get rid of splitting disadvantages by reducing the fares from points west of Didcot or introducing a zonal system.

How would First Class work?

The ITSO card works in a similar way to that of your current debit card when buying a ticket in that you first specify your ticket requirement before the fare is taken from the credit on your card. When in use as a season ticket, the conductor needs to have the technology to read the ITSO card and I suspect that current machinery of train conductors probably cannot cope with that. GoAhead and Stagecoach buses can now deal with ITSO cards but many bus operators in other parts of the country probably have not. I suspect that the high bus use in Oxford has made ITSO use viable (as is the investment by GoAhead and Stagecoach in modern bus fleets in Oxford).

Hmmm - that means going to a ticket office / machine before commencing your journey as now. The big benefit of Oyster is that you only need to do that to top-up your balance, with the touch-in & touch-out defining the ticket purchased from your balance - and I would expect ITSO to work the same way - hence only singles available, and the time of touch-in dictates the fare level.

I would imagine you could buy a ticket online and the "load" it at the station by touching in. This would end the current stupid situation when you have to insert your card, and if the machine feels like it, press in a code (fingers crossed it's not cold, otherwise that's difficult).

Heaven help you if you lise your card.... First thing someone might well do is to touch it ob a reader to see where they might be able to go.

No, I suspect only advance tickets might be bought that way. Plus season renewals maybe? Otherwise you buy by touching in & touching out, and the system works out your fare. But don't lose it!

Just superglue it to your wallet! ;D

For a PAYG functionality (like Oyster) you'd require the deduction of an entry charge at touch in, and an adjustment on touch out.  The entry charge needed to cover a national system would not be practical, so I strongly suggest that PAYG functionality will always be limited to discreet local areas.

Paul

If it were linked to your bankaccount, it wouldn't....

I believe the highest fare is about ^1000 at the moment. So if you touch in at Newquay or Kyle....

 :o

I am not sure why Oyster PAYG has to deduct a high fare and refund it anyway. Even Oyster allows this to go below zero, requiring only 1.90 I think to let you through a barrier.

If you have not got enough on your card then either you should have a credit allowance (personal to your account) or you should have to pay the excess to a ticket inspector or at the barrier. 

Simple

When Oyster PAYG was first introduced, it didn't deduct a maximum cash fare.

Passengers quickly realised that on their way out of Central London they were being taken on trust to touch out, so if they could leave the system without touching out, they did.  Full gating of all stations is relevant here, but there were enough NR interchanges and LU statiuons that weren't particularly secure, that eventually they had to bring in the current system.

Paul

^1.90 being the minimum fare charge (a Zone 1 ride) and of course if you then travel to Zone 6, then it creates a negative balance which is taken when you next top-up.

How many zones would Penzance to Aberdeen be? 50? How about ^1 per zone....

This is why I reckon ITSO cards will need a specific ticket loaded to it before passing through to the train. Gates will be needed. That way, you only pay for what you want.