Great Western Coffee Shop

Very short on details, but ABTN (http://goo.gl/9AZDq)


Jo on twitter added:

Anyone would think there was a franchise renewal in the offing.....  ::)

They definately need to. InterCity TOCs like Virgin and East Coast have stormed ahead in their level of service.

Hopefully this will mean a complementary at seat service on HSTs a la Virgin/East Coast, and freebies from the trolley on Thames Turbos.

This already is the case - what I think you meant to say was that "an improved level of"

The most recent changes to the drinks offering have been a downgrade, not an improvement !
As disscussed elswhere on these forums, FGW have ceased stocking* miniature bottles of spirits and now only offer a very limited range of ready mixed tins.
Not exactly an improvement.

I would not expect alcoholic drink to be complementary, but would expect a reasonable selection served at the seat in First Class (and available from the buffet in steerage)

*the miniatures are still available on the four daily Pullmans, but not on other services.

EDIT the above was true when I wrote it, but miniatures of gin, at least have been reintroduced, details in the thread on catering

I hope they keep the best of what they already have and add to it, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.  Travelling Chef, where available, is excellent and served at seat in First Class.  The other offerings on the trolley are good and don't appear to be rationed as seems to be the case on other TOCs.  Although not refurbishing the actual coaches it might be time to move the quiet coach from G to H.  Would make more sense as it would cut down the number of people who wander through G looking for the buffet when there isn' a trolley service or they'd rather not wait for it.

Hmmm - not sure about that. Means queuing plebs waiting to alight at PAD from roughly Slough on the up trains....

Perhaps the end coach, H could be designated the silent one, AND "queueing plebs" be prohibited from entering First.

How about a free glass of wine in First on Fridays ?

That used to happen - has it been stopped?

I think the Friday Wine club was axed.

Don't EC hire someone to stand at the dividers, and stop people queuing in 1st?

About time too!

Friday Night Wine Club has long since gone.

Virgin West Coast do offer complimentary Wine onboard trains any evening of the week except Weekends I believe. Any other alcoholic beverage is paid for however.

I think FGW should follow what VWC and EC do in terms of complimentaries. I think a meal would be nice onboard if they're going to charge ^100 for an Off-Peak First Class Return from Bath Spa/Westbury Corridor! (Includes Railcard Discount).

I think if you're paying that sort of money, I would expect a little bit more than a coffee served to me in a paper cup and a small pack of biscuits. WiFi should be added too! The other 2 main InterCity operators did this ages ago. Greater Anglia and NXEA before them have it. CrossCountry* and c2c** do too! The 3G signal on the Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington line for 3G Coverage is useless; particularly between Bristol and Chippenham because of the amount of tunnels! >:( If FGW were prepared to put their hand in their pocket. You could sort this by having line side beacons the onboard equipment can connect to. Sounds ludicrous but is possible!

East Coast/West Coast will serve drinks in real Glasses/China Cups, Serve really good quality food and have WiFi. One other thing which is a BIG winner for me. They use REAL milk in their hot drinks! ;D

To be honest, I would come back to FGW when travelling to London if these improved offerings in First Class were something worth paying for, and they transformed into similar or better than VWC / EC.

At the moment this is one (But not the main) reason why I use SWT into Waterloo. The main reason is Waterloo is much easier to change onto the c2c or Greater Anglia lines (Both accessible from the Jubilee line at West Ham & Stratford). If I go to Paddington I have to take the Circle Line right the way down to Tower Hill and it takes much longer and then I have to walk to Fenchurch Street (3 to 4 mins away if the back entrance is open). Jubilee from WAT takes me 12 - 15 minutes on a good day. Once you get to Basingstoke the 3G coverage to Waterloo is Excellent, get 4 - 5 out of 5 bars for more or less the whole journey. Works O.K. between Basingstoke and Salisbury but there are 2 or 3 places it can drop out.

Also with SWT First Class you don't get any freebie's, but a cup of Starbucks Instant Coffee is ^2.20 which is pricey, but i'd rather pay that than have the complimentary FGW stuff which tastes like dishwater sometimes! Plus I am very partial to a Starbucks... *Wonders if relex109 still has his ^3 voucher........... ;D :D *

Also traveling to London Off-Peak with SWT to WAT costs me around ^40 First Class (Walk Up Price) and about half that for a day return! So even if I spend ^5 on the trolley in each direction, I've paid ^50, had a comfortable seat, been fed and watered and got to London 95% of the time; On Time or Early! Whereas if I pay ^100 to FGW, I get 1 journey (I can make 2 on SWT for that or bring Miss Trout Along) and more or less get the same as if I went on SWT, I just get a free small cup of coffee and the delights of being the wrong side of London!

But as I said, If it were worth paying for, and these improvements didn't majorly hike the prices, I would come back to FGW :)

* = Small number of trains only >:(
** = Only one train, but it's free and is very very fast; Speed test of 8Mb Down/4Mb Up ;D

Correct
Possibly, But my recent travelings with East Coast I would say no. But then I always sit closest the Buffet Car so it doesn't bother me. (Mods feel free to remove this extra bit if you think it's wise to do so). When I've been on East Coast, You'll get your ticket checked before Stevenage in First Class, however on the return journey... I have NEVER seen the TM after Stevenage and more often than not Peterborough! :o >:(

Complimentary alcohol is served in First Class on all Virgin weekday services except breakfast trains. Fairly generous with it as well in my experience. I've had two beers between Manchester and Stoke, and 4 G+Ts between London and Scotland.

East Coast also now offer complimentary alcohol in First Class. Haven't experience an East Coast First Class trip recently so can't comment on variety. Reports elsewhere are that they ca be a bit stingy. This is apparently true of the entire EC First Class comps.

Depends who the staff member is on that one. Sometimes they'll let you have a couple of sandwiches if you're alighting at Stevenage. Whilst others will only serve you a brew and that's it.

In the First Class Lounge at KGX it's a "Help yourself" Buffet, although the selection isn't quite as good as EUS First Class Lounge.

I have to say though, The First Class Lounge at KGX is a most depressing place. It has a few swivel padded chairs, 4 work benches, WiFi that constantly breaks down and is only accessible via a Lift.

Which incidentally I may have irritated a member of staff at the lounge reception desk when I asked to use the stairs instead of the lift, and was told there were no stairs, my reply: "Well there must be, by law, as you cannot use lifts if there's a fire?!" The guy just looked at me... *Whistles innocently* ;D

FGW's level of service is shocking compared to VT or EC! FGW should introduce a proper at seat service. Why else would you pay the extortionate prices for 1st class? Are the leather seats really worth it? NO.

Settle down Btline, don't get yourself so overexcited old boy... ;)

1. FGW does offer an at-seat service in First: there are the complimentaries from the trolley (which you can make a pretty decent breakfast out of if you put your mind to it) and the host will take orders for items from the buffet or Travelling Chef to serve at-seat. And, at least in my experience, Travelling Chef meals served in first class are offered on china with proper cutlery and a linen napkin.

2. Extortionate...? Depends what you mean really. I've used first class on FGW a fair bit, always on advance fares which have been excellent value for money. Undoubtedly it's pricey for a walk-up return at peak times, but so's standard class. The premium for a first class advance compared to a standard advance is often relatively modest, and on occasion I've struck gold and found ones that are actually cheaper.

Calling the service level shocking really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. My feeling was the FGW's catering offering compared very favourably to NXEC's and XC's.

The paid for Pullman restauraunt on FGW certainly compares very well with the offerings from other TOCs, none of which now offer a proper restaurant service.

The complimentary items offered in First class on FGW do not compare at all well with other long distance operators.
The at seat service is at best variable, sometimes not appearing at all, and seldom having a good stock of both complimentaries and goods for purchase.
They still make a point of the free newspaper on evening services, when this is now free everywhere !

First class is not improved by being invaded by steerage between London and Reading. Enforcement has improved a bit from non-existant to patchy.

It is also only temporary, during the building works, before it is moved to its final location adjacent to the west end of the new footbridge...

Paul

Jo has taken to Twitter to get an idea of what passengers would like to be changed in the First Class Offering from FGW.

If you have Twitter it's @FGW. For those of you without Twitter, I am more than happy to email Jo your feedback collectively, hopefully it will lead to a better service in the future.

I'm a great believer in "you get what you pay for" - therefore I would not like "free" hot food as elsewhere in the country.  I am more than happy to pay for a Travelling Chef breakfast if I want one and feel if there is something not right with it (rare) I have a better justification for raising the problem as I have paid "real" cash for it.

Complimentary tea, coffee, water, juice and nibbles suits me fine and the fact the trolley usually comes through and will get you anything else from the buffet if you want it and thus save lugging your laptop bag coach up to coach F is a very useful thing.

I am sure it is not part of the review but I would like better ticket checks in first - so what ever is on offer only goes to those with a first class ticket!

Jo has also asked the same thing on Facebook if anyone would like to comment on there also..

Although judging by some of the comments (which I also added one to once I saw the others).. it is also more important to some people that tickets are checked and First class is policed on all trains so that it is just for First Class passengers..I guess freebies from the trolley are less important than that.. well that is definitely also my opinion currently after what I've seen being allowed in First Class during the last few weeks..

It would be interesting to read the job description of the trolley steward. My experience travelling (mostly) off peak during the day is that this service can be sporadic. In particular, on services that run non-stop between Exeter and Reading (both directions) too often the trolley is absent for well over an hour. Yet, if you take a 'stopping' service the trolley appears after most stations.

Furthermore, some trolleys carry chargeable items e.g. alcohol and some don't, seemingly at random. Similarly, some trolley stewards offer to fetch items from the buffet (I'm usually in H), some hope you won't ask and some point blank refuse (the latter only once).

Appreciate the leather seats, and almost always have a good journey, but:

1) Would table lamps break the budget? Other TOCs have them and they are, after all, a traditional First Class fixture. They add a touch of style and also help communicate to 'strays' that they are in the wrong coach.

2) Why oh why does it take so long for the trolley to appear on (off-peak) trains departing PAD? On occasions this has taken 30 minutes i.e. after Reading. Compare this with Midland Trains, whose stewards were offering refreshments at seat with minutes of leaving St. Pancras. Not to mention the china crockery.

3) Enforce First Class. Sorry, but too many train crew look the other way. It's not rocket science. My suspicion is that FGW are too anxious to collect surcharges from Standard passengers with the wrong ticket, rather than focus on this issue. Quite frankly, on almost every EXD departure I've travelled on, if you could get past the barriers on the platform* then you could enjoy a free FC journey to Taunton - the tickets are almost never checked.

4) In line with the above, even Cross Country seem to now make more of an effort with their at-seat service. On the one hour trip from Exeter to Bristol I was offered refreshments twice. On the thirty minute hop from Exeter - Totnes (that I often make on a Friday afternoon) I am offered refreshments twice.

5) Coach F, when not been used for dining, seems to be a FGW social club. I realise that off-duty train crew need to sit somewhere, but I'm less impressed when on-duty crew slouch around there, including of course, the elusive trolley steward. Put it this way, would you walk into any half-decent catering establishment and find the employees lolling around, sat in the customer areas? If you did, what would it say to you about the venue? If this sounds harsh, so is well over ^200 for a four hour round trip.

6) Trolley stewards: I am 43 and didn't go to school with you, so I'm neither a "young man' nor your "mate'. If you have moral or social issues in providing service to customers who can afford to pay a premium for a service, then perhaps you should reconsider your employment.

7) Bring back the miniatures, a backwards step.

8) "We no longer offer carbonated soft drinks e.g. Coca-Cola to our customers because they were taking them home with them". Customers which may have paid over ^200 to sit on your train. Bet you get free carbonated soft drink at the shareholder's meetings, eh, FGW?

9) WiFi. Again, it's not rocket science. Bet you've got WiFi at your Head Office, eh FGW?

10) Friday night Wine Club. Evidently the customers enjoyed it too much, perhaps relaxed, sparked up a conversation with a stranger, thought better of FGW or even just smiled? Good job they axed it then.

All in all, my experience of FC with FGW is that there is a culture of complacency, penny pinching and, too often, a lack of customer focus. Hopefully, the revamp will address these issues and not merely be a cosmetic PR exercise.

* travel from St Thomas, for example.

In my 20 odd years of regular travelling (but not commuting) with BR/FGW between Paddington and the far West I cannot recall a journey where my ticket has NOT been checked after departure from Paddington.  Yesterday (Saturday 24/03) I travelled up and back to Paddington and my ticket was checked three times on the way up and twice on the way down as well as at the barriers at Paddington.  Indeed on the Down journey (1706 from Paddington) the conductor checked the tickets of those that boarded in First Class after every station departure (as far as Plymouth where I alighted) ;)


Edited to fix quote. bignosemac.

I have the opposite experience.. My ticket has only been checked a handful of times in FC this year.. I think they wait until after Maidenhead when leaving Paddington and don't bother after Maidenhead on the way into Paddington..

They also let as many people as possible board at the very back of the train at Paddington before departure so that non First Class Customers end up standing in First Class.. Sometimes meaning the trolley can't even reach all the First Class Customers..

Having said that, the other day, I did see the train Manager moving all the people standing in the FC Vestibules on up to Standard Class.. Which is good and positive.. Although that was then slightly spoilt by no ticket check being done...

As for FC in the turbos.. FGW definitely need to do something about this...Or if not they need to stop pretending they offer FC to people in Maidenhead/Twyford/Slough etc...

I know that a hell of a lot of extra revenue staff (mostly just Ticket Examiners) have been taken on at Pad and Oxford and are still training at the moment, i think you will start to see an improvement in ticket checks on Turbos soon.

To confirm vacman's post, many extra staff have indeed been taken on and I've noticed an increase in ticket checks, which seems to be a general feeling going on some other posts on here in the last few weeks.  Checks on every train certainly aren't in the offing any time soon, but from virtually zero checks on the Reading to Paddington suburban trains, you should at least see some now!

First class USED to be effectively open to all between Paddington and Reading, enforcement is now patchy IME which is better than none !.

First class could be improved by discouraging standard class from boarding in G/H and then walking through the train, as seems to be the norm at present.

And as others post, bring back miniatures of spirits and a selection of mixers.
I doubt that much in the way of real improvements can be expected, the most that we can hope for would a reversal of the more recent downgrades.

I know its been discussed before but I'm all for turning First Class to the front at Paddington.  On the occasions this has happended to me its been a delight ;D (and I don't mind the stroll down the Platform, indeed now the Hot and Cold is the best way to exit east it would be great, oh and I'd be the first off the platform and out of the car park at my home station as well ;D ;D).

Me too. Stops the procession of late comers boarding the train at the last minute trapsing through. It also stops those trying it on. Amazing how many people get turfed out of first by the Train Manager by the time the train passes Ealing Broadway. They obviously don't notice the TM is at the first class end of the train when it departs Paddington.

Many a time I've been sat in a busy coach G on the weekend only to be one of a couple of passengers left once the TM has been through because those sitting there don't want to pay the Weekend First supplement.

The chancers would soon get to realise there is space up the front in 1st Class if the sets were reversed. And with the TM necessarily being at the rear for dispatch duties, there would be even less chance of them being turfed out, unless every set had an RPI up front.

No easy answers.

It won't happen, as I've said before. First Class passengers won't want a longer walk!

First Class passengers seem to cope okay with 'long' walks at places like Gloucester (nearly 1/4 mile from the booking office), Swansea, Penzance, Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime Street, Glasgow Central.....

Is there any reason other than convenience to London boarding customers that 1st Class is most often at the buffer stops end of London termini?

Most people on these trains are travelling to London. So yes.

Hi, forgive me, I was alluding to the journey from Exeter up to London. On occasions, the first ticket check has been as late as Castle Cary

FGW have tweeted one of the "refreshed" areas:

I would prefer First at the country end, but it would seem that I am in a minority regarding this.
Many first class ticket holders feel strongly about the extra walking involved at Paddington, but ignore the shorter walk that would result at other stations.

The absence of latecomers, with rucksacks, dogs, baby carriages and screaming infants walking through First would in my view be worth a longer walk.


It is certainly a welcome change if the train is the wrong way round.

It would also make life easier at Reading while trains are stopped at the country end of Platform 7 during the reconstruction, reducing the need for standard class travelers to board in the first class coaches.

The main problem at Reading is that passengers don't listen to announcements and don't read the signs. It's quite clear where standard class will be but most people still wait outside the Pumpkin Cafe until their train arrives before running up the platform or just piling in to First Class.

Well lots of people do wait in the right place, there are always plenty of other people with me up a the ABC end of the train when I'm there. But that doesn't exactly help with the very common situation of being in a rush to get to the train having just arrived at platforms 4 to 6 or from the footbridge. But hey, it's much easier just to blame those silly passengers again isn't it. Fancy people not noticing every single one of the plethora of signs places you see on a rail journey, especially when trying to find your way round a very crowded station and focusing on not missing your train.

Every time I've been at Reading there are still a large number of passengers waiting by the first class area, and it's not just the signs, there are manual announcements before most trains arrive that standard class will be at the far end of the platform.

Some of the platforms are very long though (for example the first one you get to without going up any stairs (sorry can't remember the new numbers.. I'd guess at 7 if I had to guess)... It's not obvious where the train is going to stop there (well to me at least) so not easy to gauge where the carriage you're booked in is.. Which might explain people standing in the wrong place...

That platform, which is 7, is the main problem. Trains used to stop as close to exit end as possible, but now stop at the furthest end of the platform possible. There are lots of signs up which state where each carriage stops, but then for the Oxford and Bedwyn service run by Turbos they stop in a completely different place, which must be quite confusing. For services run by Turbos there is a note on the screens to wait in the blue zone, outside the Pumpkin Cafe effectively as that's where the Turbos stop, an extra note on HST run services added that Standard Class is at the far end of the platform would probably be useful.

Until a HST comes in back ass to front. Or in railway terminology, reverse formation.  :-X

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about free EXD-TAU first class travel.  The following is a little ( ;D) tongue-in-cheek, but hopefully illustrates that it's not a case of "can't be bothered to deal with first class until after Taunton".

At EXD, we have to dispatch at the rear of the train ie. Coach A.  (We are allowed rear 3 coaches, but a fair few crew changes happen, so it is natural for the TM to be at the rear, especially with the PA in the guards van.)

Leave EXD, make our required speil over the PA... Now time to run that 5 coach gauntlet to come check your ticket... block out all questions that are thrown at us from standard class passengers... someone on their phone in A?  Oh dear... only 10 minutes to Tiverton... ignore seat reservation queries, ignore moving luggage so those boarded can find suitable space or even just get through vestibule doors... Of course that's while I smack everyone out of the way in the aisle walking to/from the buffet... Phew... coach F... Oh - PA announcement for arriving at Tiverton?  Quick, back to the buffet to get to the PA, or run through G/H ignoring you in first class to use the PA there, and then back through H to the correct door panel.

Even if we did all that, and processed even 1 or 2 upgrades that would be happily sitting there for us after Taunton, the chances are  we won't even make it to coach H by Taunton.

I am going to assume you have a valid ticket?  Thank you - your business is appreciated.  Enjoy your trip and let us worry about incorrect/non-existant tickets please - a reminder - we are not revenue protection officers - we are guards.  Our job does not start and stop with tickets.

However, I do have immense sympathy regarding the standard masses standing in first class out of London/Reading issue.  Perhaps having revenue protection on the first class doors would help as each service gets ready to depart, even if it just drives the message home - however - unless you cut off the time completely that someone can come through the barriers at 2 minutes before departure, I don't see how you can stop standard class passengers boarding at the rear of first class at departure time without delaying the train.

Reverse all HST sets to have 1st Class at the country end out of PAD/RDG.

Problem solved.  :-\ ;) ;D

I've long thought that, at stations like Paddington and Reading, the high-level PIS displays on the platforms could be used to indicate where to board:

1505 PENZANCE
Calling at: etc. etc.
↑ Standard        First →

...as they do in some places on Le Continong. People are accustomed to looking at the displays, more so than announcements and certainly obscure stuff like 'Purple Zone'.

But given the difficulty in getting the new Turbo displays to say anything apart from "This train is now arriving at Tilehurst" no matter where you are, that might be a bit optimistic. ;)

Getting people to read the PIS or listen to the announcements sometimes seems optimistic.  The times I, as a member of the public, have been asked if a train is going to Bristol Temple Meads or wherever on Platform 7 when the annoucement has been made..or the screen says so...or the label in the coach window says so. 

Occasional travellers do not always have the confidence of their own eyes or ears and need constant re-assurance.

I know many don't want the change, it would be interesting to see what the response would be if this was quietly bought it... 

Though then Standard Class peeps might sit in first class knowing we might not make it down there, as per my previous post  ;) ;D

A belated thank you to SuperGuard for his explanation of the ticket checking procedure upon leaving Exeter St Davids on London trains, I now understand the task in hand.

Doesn't excuse the trolley steward taking an age to appear though... ;)

A survey has been conducted (though I don't know how extensive), and the majority of the public voted to keep First Class at the London end.  Though there will be a review early next year.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8452/7921783444_1e2d2467cd_z.jpg)

Stop press: first class commuters vote for a shorter walk!
 :o

Unless you're headed to the Hammersmith & City/Circle line platforms of course. (And in a slight digression good to see that the work on that part of Paddington is now beginning to result in somewhat better conditions with the increased number of stairs and larger concourse.)

You missed off the small print *80% of respondents were stood in a first class vestibule  ;)