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Sideshoots - associated subjects => Campaigns for new and improved services => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on February 10, 2012, 10:19:54 pm



Title: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 10, 2012, 10:19:54 pm
From the Southern Daily Echo (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9525194.Move_to_reopen_former_rail_line/):

Quote
It was closed more than 40 years ago as part of the biggest cut in train services the country has ever seen. But now new moves to reopen a Hampshire rail route that was axed have taken a major step forward.

Hampshire County Council has agreed to fund a study into reintroducing passenger trains on the Totton to Hythe branch line. It was closed in 1966 as a result of the controversial Beeching cuts.

Experts have already established a business case for reopening the single-track line, currently used by freight trains serving Fawley oil refinery. The viability study will look into what work is needed to restore passenger services. It will also assess the likely level of demand and pinpoint possible sources of funding for the ^3m project.

The plan was put forward three years ago as part of a ^73m scheme to improve rail links across the New Forest.

A report published by the Association of Train Operating Companies said the Brockenhurst to Ringwood line should also be restored. But that proposal, which would mean re-laying the track and building a new station in Ringwood, has since been shunted into the sidings.

Re-opening the Totton to Hythe line would ease the pressure on the A326 and other traffic-choked roads in the Waterside area.

Councillor Mel Kendal, the county council^s executive member for environment and transport, said constructive talks had already taken place with Network Rail and South West Trains. He added: ^The outcome of the earlier study has enabled us to develop a business case for the development of the Waterside line. However, there^s still a great deal of technical work to be done and detail to be worked through so we^re still some years away from opening the line to passengers. Nonetheless what we have established so far is encouraging.^

Supporters of the project include county councillor David Harrison, who represents Marchwood and Totton South. He said: ^A passenger railway line linking Southampton with Totton, Marchwood and Hythe would be terrific and I^m sure very popular. My one big reservation is the potential impact on the train gates in Junction Road, Totton.^

Cllr Harrison said the busy level crossing was already closed to traffic for a total of 20 minutes every hour.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: eightf48544 on February 10, 2012, 11:06:45 pm
Interesting that the L/C in Toton is mentioned. I thought that the L?c was one of teh rpoblems raised when this raised preciously. I also thought lack of line capacity between Totton and Redbridge, coupled with the conflicting move of trains coming off the branch was also a limiting factor.

But good luck to tehm. I wnder what the proposed running time from Hythe to Southamton would be compared with the ferry.

Alos just to make you all jelous I'm probaly one of the few people to have travelled on the line when there was still a couple of passenger trains to Fawley. i think we had an M7 and a couple of coaches went right down to Fawley on a Rover ticket. i've also doe Bournemouth to Brokenhurst via Ringwood  many time on Rover tickets.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: onthecushions on February 15, 2012, 08:12:15 pm

.......and the lights for the Forbury Rd dual carriageway traffic at the Kings Rd junction leaving Reading are only on green for 15 seconds in a two minute cycle, last time I counted, 12.5% of the time......

I think that too much is made of LC obstruction to road traffic, when other obstructions and lack of grade separation (bridges) are accepted without comment.

In passing, one of the Marchwood Military Railway class 501 coaches survives at the Coventry Electric Railway Museum, complete with MoD badges.

OTC


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: MrC on February 15, 2012, 10:35:50 pm
Interesting that the L/C in Toton is mentioned. I thought that the L?c was one of teh rpoblems raised when this raised preciously. I also thought lack of line capacity between Totton and Redbridge, coupled with the conflicting move of trains coming off the branch was also a limiting factor.
There was mention a few years ago of moving Totton station to where the up/down Fawley line runs parallel to the main lines which would enable off-peak shuttles to Totton to connect to other services and alleviate some pressure off Totton L/C. Suspect this idea has bitten the dust though as it would bump the cost up considerably.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: paul7575 on February 16, 2012, 11:14:24 am
Last year's London and SE RUS included a fresh analysis of the south Hants area, because it wasn't adressed properly in the current SWML RUS.

The section about the possibilities of a passenger service on the Fawley branch, (only as far as Hythe), is fairly concise so here's an extract:

Quote
11.8.3 Options responding to Gap S2 ^

Poor public transport links between Southampton and the Waterside area

[...route description]

Timetable analysis shows that it would be possible to run two passenger trains per hour in
each direction and one freight train in a single direction between Totton and Marchwood. Beyond
Marchwood and with minimum headways, it would be possible to run an hourly passenger service in
both directions and up to three freight trains in the same direction. This assumes that the existing
infrastructure is capable of handling passenger services and that the platforms at Marchwood
and Hythe have been returned to operational use (in accordance with Disability Discrimination
Act (DDA)). Additional infrastructure would be required for two passenger trains per hour between
Marchwood and Hythe, which would require a further additional platform linked by a DDAcompliant
footbridge.
A shuttle service could be introduced if the bay platform at the Totton end of Southampton Central
was brought back into use. SWT does not currently have any one-car (Class 153) units in their fleet and
are unlikely to be able to source a spare Class 158 two-car unit for this service so additional units would
have to be provided. Failing that, the line could be electrified and an existing service extended to
terminate at Marchwood or Hythe.
Several consultation responses suggested that SWT^s Figure 6 service could instead be operated
as a Salisbury to Hythe via Chandler^s Ford service, however, this would still require extra rolling stock
and would no longer provide a second relatively fast service between Southampton Central and
Romsey/Salisbury.
Bluestar buses currently operate a high frequency bus service between Southampton City Centre,
Central Station and Hythe, calling at the main housing estates on the way. Three buses per hour
operate most of the day and an hourly service runs until 3am on Friday and Saturday nights. Given
this high frequency service and relatively low fares, it would appear that rail would be an unattractive
alternative. However, many of the consultation responses highlighted delays and lengthened
journey times between Southampton and Hythe in the peak, with journeys of up to an hour reported.
An alternative to the buses is the Hythe Ferry, which runs a half-hourly service across Southampton Water
to Town Quay where a free bus is waiting to take passengers into the city centre and to Southampton
Central station.
The high capital cost of reintroducing DDA compliant stations and the need to procure additional rolling
stock mean that a scheme to introduce passenger services to the line will have a low value for money
business case. In addition, depending on the level of investment in infrastructure on the branch to
facilitate a new passenger service, there could be conflicts between a regular passenger service and
freight growth if a large container port were to be developed at Dibden Bay.
The RUS therefore does not recommend the conversion of the Marchwood Branch for passenger
use but Network Rail will continue to work with Transport for South Hampshire, the local authorities
and other stakeholders on the development of a robust business case as new evidence emerges, in
line with the factors detailed above.

They don't seem to mention Totton level crossing at all there.  Also, the bit about SWT being unable to find a spare 158 seems negotiable, given the permanent loan of a unit to FGW, or the use of a 158 on the Lymington branch...

Paul


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: stuving on January 21, 2014, 08:38:47 am
BBC news report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-25812076) this morning about this proposal - saying Hampshire CC do not see the high BCR that the railways did.

Quote
Plans to re-open a freight railway line near Southampton to passenger trains are to be shelved over cost concerns.

Hampshire County Council considered using the line, between Totton and Hythe, for commuter and tourist services.

A council report came down against progressing with the scheme, which would cost ^900,000 a year to run.

Campaigners said the environmental and social benefits of the proposals were not being taken into account.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on February 21, 2015, 11:39:54 am
https://www.facebook.com/WatersideRailwayPassengerService

Quote
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE SUPPORT

Hampshire Chamber of Commerce have thrown their influential weight behind plans to restore the Waterside railway line back to a passenger service.

In a response to a consultation about the future of railway services in Southern England, the Chamber have replied :
"When Chandlers Ford station was re-opened in 2003, the rail service was intended to run to Marchwood & Hythe on the Waterside Line. Although recent studies by Hampshire County Council have rejected the re-opening (for a low sum of circa ^16m when compared with other transport schemes), it is essential a fully costed project be investigated, so as to provide an economic and affordable passenger service that will reduce road congestion on the western Solent, creating a proper alternative to the motor car and improved access to the eastern edge of the New Forest National Park."

County Councillor David Harrison, the member for Totton South & Marchwood says " I can't think of a more influential body that understands the business case for restoring a passenger service along the Waterside. It's time now for Hampshire County Council to change tack and to start pushing this project forwards".


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: paul7575 on February 21, 2015, 12:10:39 pm
They must have noticed though, that the opportunity to extend the earlier Romsey service beyond Totton disappeared with the subsequent decision to run it to Salisbury.  They seem to have vastly improved the service towards Salisbury instead.

It would be fair to conclude that a number of projects described in the Hampshire section of the London and SE RUS didn't make the cut for the successor 'route study' which seems to concentrate far more on frequency increases on existing medium distance and London flows.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on February 21, 2015, 12:25:04 pm
They must have noticed though, that the opportunity to extend the earlier Romsey service beyond Totton disappeared with the subsequent decision to run it to Salisbury.  They seem to have vastly improved the service towards Salisbury instead.

If the service from Salisbury ran via Eastleigh to Southampton, could it not then carry on to Totton, Marchwood and Hythe?


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: paul7575 on February 21, 2015, 04:22:56 pm
I think this came up in an earlier RUS, and they thought that the time increase for passengers from the intermediate stations (Dean and Mottisfont/Dunbridge) wanting to get to Southampton Central the long way round would be a deterrent factor.

Paul


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on August 17, 2016, 02:28:00 am
From the Daily Echo (http://m.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14673737.Oil_refinery_s_decision_could_end_hopes_of_Waterside_trains/)

Quote
FAWLEY refinery is about to stop using a Hampshire railway line in a move that could destroy hopes for a new passenger service.

Trains on the freight-only Totton to Fawley line deliver crude oil to the huge petro-chemical complex, the largest facility of its type in the UK.

The refinery has denied that its decision to stop using the route will result in a huge number of extra road tankers on local roads.

But ExxonMobil’s announcement has fuelled fears that passenger services on the Waterside will never be re-introduced.

Stations on the line were closed in 1966 and the imminent loss of the only trains still using it has led to speculation that the track will be ripped up.

Campaigners have spent years trying to persuade the authorities to provide commuters with an alternative to the A326 and other traffic-choked roads.

A refinery spokesman said 99 per cent of all crude oil delivered to Fawley arrived by ship.

He added: “Rail-based deliveries are no longer economic and will cease at the end of this month. In future all crude used in the refinery will arrive by ship – none will be transported by road.”

The announcement received a mixed reaction from Waterside county councillor David Harrison.

He said: “I’m very relieved that Exxon are saying there will be no extra road traffic as a result of this decision and I will be monitoring matters to ensure this is the case.

“However, it’s unfortunate as far as the railway line is concerned.

“I’m fearful that lack of use will mean the line is allowed to fall into disrepair and impact on the ambition to restore a passenger service.”

In 2009 the Association of Train Operating Companies called for passenger services on the line to be re-introduced to ease congestion on local roads.

Hampshire County Council looked at the idea but three years ago said it failed to meet the business case requirements set out by Network Rail, which owns the track.

Above from 6 days ago ... comment which will give readers here the flavour of issues involved.

Quote
dans_t16s 7:16am Thu 11 Aug 16
A passenger service could result in loosing the Hythe Ferry. That's one reason the passenger train idea was abandoned 3 years ago and is still a valid reason not to introduce it.
Report
Score: 3
OSPREYSAINT  Replying dans_t16s 11:18am Thu 11 Aug 16
Brilliant thinking, and if the Ferry isn't running, as in recent times there is no alternative except to join the road queues. Public transport is already a joke. Perhaps a Preservation Society could take over and do a proper job of providing a service?
Report
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Mr-La-De-Da-Gunner-Graham  Replying OSPREYSAINT 7:53pm Thu 11 Aug 16
Yeah gutted this end too... I mean, I've always yearned to take a train over to Waterside to see it's wondrous sights and take in the broadminded culture of its environs. No sarcasm. No, really .... LOL!
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southy  Replying OSPREYSAINT 2:22pm Fri 12 Aug 16
Was thinking the same about Preservation team/group/society, would be some thing to see a steam train working the route from the river. Could extend it down to Calshot, would tke a lot of traffic of the road from people going to the beach in the summer.
Last edited: 2:27pm Fri 12 Aug 16
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Score: 0
forest hump  Replying southy 2:35pm Fri 12 Aug 16
No passenger trains can go through refinery!
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Score: 0
southy  Replying forest hump 3:24pm Fri 12 Aug 16
Yes they can if a track was laid down, rerouted closer to the foreshore in the open spaces, there is a public footpath that runs though the refinery, that is little known about and I know the refinery would like to keep it that way. but a track could be place right along side the public footpath that leads to Calshot, there was a Station at Fawley orginally, the public footpath from Calshot use pass right by the Train Station at Fawley, there is a fork in the footpath on the Totton side of the Fawley Station, one route takes you along the foreshore all the way to Eling Church the other heads towards Hardley


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on August 18, 2016, 07:28:47 am
The 2013 GRIP3 report by Halcrow on opening the line to passenger traffic is at

http://www.dharrison.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/001._Waterside_Rail_Study_Final_Report.pdf

From Councillor David Harrison's web site at http://www.dharrison.org.uk/out-in-the-open/

Quote
In a small victory for open government, Hampshire County Council have now agreed to release a copy of the latest Consultants report GRIP 3 Report on the Waterside Railway Line.

Earlier this week, it seemed likely that the report would only have been seen by County Officers who were recommending that the project be shelved. However, Councillor David Harrison asked that it be made available to everyone who wants to see it and asked that a decision about the future of the project be delayed until all key stakeholders have had a chance to read it and comment.

David has now received the document, ( it runs to over 80 pages ) and is working his way through it. A link is provided for anyone else interested in viewing the document to download it.

David says “It’s pretty shocking that Hampshire County Council were going to shelve or even kill this project off without anyone having seen the consultants report. They sometimes forget that it is we, the taxpayers, who fund these things. It is only right and proper that anyone can see what the consultants have to say so that we can challenge anything we don’t agree with “.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: paul7575 on August 18, 2016, 10:06:35 am
Running to Hythe is equally dumped or axed in the Wessex route study.
Hants CC apparently don't want it, following the detailed analysis, and Network Rail just take the line that no new evidence has arisen to change the earlier decision.

Paul



Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on September 05, 2016, 05:08:42 pm
Video of last train to Fawley

https://www.facebook.com/BBCSouthToday/videos/1119003188190270/


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on October 08, 2016, 06:04:04 pm
The "abstraction" argument has been used against the railway line, suggesting that support for it would pull people off the ferry, reducing the operating case for that and making both un-viable.   However, from the Ferry service seems to be far from safe too. From the Daily Echo (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14789941.Future_of_Hythe_Ferry_through_into_doubt_and_staff_given_redundancy_letters/)

Quote
THE future of the Hythe Ferry is in doubt after the firm running the service has have admitted it is they are "unlikely" to continue operating.

Staff have been issued with redundancy letters, the company confirmed to the Daily Echo.

Hythe Ferry Limited is run by White Horse Ferries between Hythe Marina and Southampton but has run into financial difficulties due to declining passenger numbers and high operating costs, and say they have had to pour in capital, despite being supported by a £50,000 subsidy from Hampshire County Council.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 08, 2016, 10:09:17 pm
See also http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17044.0  ::)


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on April 22, 2017, 03:35:26 pm
It's a shame that this clashes with the Minehead trip

Totally agreed.   It's a weekend when stock's available though.

My personal schedule's unclear and I may have to work all day and miss both trips, with an element of chance that I can at least go to Southampton in the late morning and ride to Fawley.

The Three Rivers train from Salisbury currently runs a figure of six - Salsibury, Romsey, Southampton, Southampton Airport, Eastleigh, Romsey.   An alternative would be Salisbury, Romsey, Eastleigh, Southampton Airport, Southampton, Totton, Fawley.  With no intermediate stations between Redbridge and Romsey, this alternative wouldn't miss out any stations though it would change the calling order, and reduce Romsey to Southampton service to just 2 an hour.   The turn back at Salisbury already has some robustness, the turn back on the through lines at Romsey is quite the reverse.  A turn back at Fawley, at some distant future date, has its attractions from an operational viewpoint, and a through Eastleigh and Airport to Marchwood / Hythe / Fawley service could be attractive.   I am aware of concerns that a train service operating on this line could abstract traffic from the Hythe Ferry, and so support in the Solent area isn't universal at the moment.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: paul7575 on April 22, 2017, 04:56:11 pm
The other thing you've missed off that reasonable explanation is that running via Chandlers Ford to Southampton is seen as a disbenefit in terms of journey time, especially for the small stations of Dean and Mottisfont, because Southampton Central is apparently where people want to go.

The Wessex route study has a very short section about it.   As you say, and probably based on Hampshire County Council's lack of support, NR are not planning on running such a service.

Quote
2.7 New or Re-opened Infrastructure
2.7.1 Several local residents called for the reinstatement of
passenger services along the Fawley Branch at least as far as Hythe,
with one being strongly opposed. However, no new evidence was
adduced to suggest that the conclusions of recent studies (which
suggested that the business case was not robust) should be
reviewed.

Paul


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on April 22, 2017, 09:41:50 pm
The other thing you've missed off that reasonable explanation is that running via Chandlers Ford to Southampton is seen as a disbenefit in terms of journey time, especially for the small stations of Dean and Mottisfont, because Southampton Central is apparently where people want to go.

Yes ... or is the reason that the major flow from Mottisfont is to Central is because that's the good journey offered, and the people surveyed are the people on the train on that good journey?  I suspect I'm playing Devil's advocate here and, yes, the most wanted flow is into Central ...

Not my "politics" area.   From a Wiltshire (Salisbury and north thereof) perspective, one train an hour direct to Central and one an hour vis Eastleigh and the Airport could work even better than the Cardiff - Portsmouth plus the Swidnon - Westbury - Salisbury - Romsey 6.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: teamsaint on April 22, 2017, 11:17:50 pm
Just read this update, and am conflicted, as they say these days.

Journey time from Dean to Central on a new salisbury to Hythe via  Eastleigh would be about 40 mins, and obviously a few minutes less from Dunbridge.

Would this be enough to deter most people from travelling ? possibly not, as the alternative of car, or getting to Romsey or Salisbury would take as long as the 40 minutes.
The current figure of 6 gives some useful options for travel back to Romsey/Dean/Dunbridge from the Southampton area.

I'm not sure how much of a problem 2 TPH from Romsey would be IF they were properly spaced, roughly half an hour apart.

 


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on May 14, 2017, 08:43:41 am
What a fascinating trip to Fawley - a huge thanks to the Three Rivers Community Rail Partneship and to Hastings Diesels for organising it. With a choice of special trips yesterday to Minehead (a lovely town) and to Fawley (at the gates of an oil refinery, with no chance to get off), I chose the latter ...

The Waterside line runs from Southampton Central via Millbrook, Redbridge, and Totton (these being on the main line) to Marchwood, Hythe and Fawley.  Passenger services to Marchwood, Hythe and Fawley ceased at the time of Dr Beeching - February 1966 - but oil terminal traffic carried on until just a couple of months ago. The line has now lost its last regular traffic.

Marchwood (population 6,000) and Hythe (population 20,000) are very much part of the Southampton and Solent economic / travel to work area. They're on the west bank of the Itchen Southampton Water in a band of land that's not included in the New Forest National Park, although there's much opena and beaufiful conntryisde in that band. Fawley and (at the end of the Itchen Southampton Water) Calstock Calshot are much smaller and remote.  A ferry service with public support runs from Southampton to Hythe, taking a much more direct line that the railway which loops around the top of the estuary.  The ferry operates from the peir end at Hythe (historic railway up the pier) to Town Quay Southamtpon - about a km from Southampton Central station.  The ferry now operates with a single vessel ... not always easy - I read this morning: " AS FROM TUESDAY 2nd MAY 2017.  Please be advised that while our main ferry is having her essential annual survey and refit, we are using a substitute vessel.  To access the boat there are steps in to and off of the vessel. Bikes and pushchairs are welcome but will need to be carried on board.  Crew will assist if required and requested.  This is not a permanent reserve vessel but all that is available for this two week period.  We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.". 

There has been a strong campaign to re-instate a passenger service on the railway, and the logic would seem to be a through service from Fawley or Hythe at least to Southampton Central (main line turnback as Totton blocking the main lines, extra platform having level crossing issues or being in a yard a considerable walk from the main line). Possible service on to Southampton Airport / Eastleigh from where there is logic in it carrying on - as the trains will be diesels - to provide the service for Chandler's Ford and Romsey.  There's then further logic in the service supporting Mottisfont Dunbridge and Dean stations and running to Salisbury.   All of which could help the operational metrics of the current "Romsey 6" service with its inefficient and long layover of a train at Salisbury, and which leads into a TransWilts interest in linking that service northwards via Wilton, and Westbury to Chippenham and Swindon.  I turned up an old copy of the Parkman report the other day ... there may be some new ideas here, but they're also some based on past research data.

With Three Rivers (Romsey Six) and TransWilts services naturally linking, and a resultant service being more beneficial than just the sum of the two benefits, my trip yesterday was an important piece of observation and personal learning, even though I probably looked like just a person out for an interesting and unusual ride.

The line strikes me as being in relatively good condition, based on the smooth ride.  I know the Hastings Diesel - the set that was used - very well indeed from my youth, and on poor track they could ride rough bearing in mind their restricted suspension due to narrow tunnels in Sussex.  I made a point of riding in a Hastings trailer.  However, there are a considerable number of level crossings along the way at lest one of which appears/ed to be manually operated gates, and a passing loop and signal box at Marchwood with mechanically operated pointwork and semaphore signalling.  A token is still used for at least the final section from Marchwood to Fawley.  I would suspect that under a Network Rail / full National Rail standard, there would be a considerable bill to upgrade the line for regular passenger use, and that elements of such an upgrade would be needed to reduce the cost of staffing for operation, and to reduce the journey time.

As well as commuter / current local traffic potentiail, being on the edge of the New Forest would attract tourist traffic, and the area outside the New Forest - the Itchen Southampton Water West Waterside Bank - could develop quickly and usefully if it had better pubcic transport links.  But the service would undoubtedly abstract traffic from the ferry, and indeed that abstraction could threaten the Ferry and historic railway's survival as an every-day service, and / or increas the subsidy it would need.  The Ferry serves Hythe and links to Southampton though and doesn't offer the same onward connections, or indeed West Itchen Southapton Water opportunities at Fawley and Marchwood that a passenger train service would offer, nor does the ferry offer quite the same robustness of service especially to those with pushchairs, etc.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fforest10.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fforest11.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fforest12.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fforest13.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fforest14.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fforest15.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fforest16.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fforest17.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fforest18.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fforest19.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fforest1a.jpg)

Pictures all taken yesterday; some are informational shots rather than good pictures!

The full Waterside Story also needs to look at the current bus services on parallel roads, and at the work needed to bring stations up to standard or to re-create them, and perhaps other issues too; take a look up this thread and do not read my trip report in isolation!

Edit to make corrections as seen in text (errors crossed through)


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: PhilWakely on May 14, 2017, 09:56:25 am
I am probably being very naive, but would it not be more sensible/practical to run an all-stations stopping service from Salisbury to Hythe via Chandlers Ford as a replacement for the existing Salisbury to Romsey via Romsey, Chandlers Ford and Southampton? Surely this can still be done with the two existing 158s on an hourly service?


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: paul7575 on May 14, 2017, 10:41:03 am
Please see my reply in post #4 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10308.msg107257#msg107257) on the previous page which summarises why that is not the preferred scheme.

There is a separate thread to this  ??? in which this route was also mentioned more recently, and I pointed out that the latest Wessex route study also doesn't support this:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18125.msg213081#msg213081

Paul




Edit note: Link to that previous post updated, as a few posts have been moved and merged, in the interests of clarity and continuity. CfN.




Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 14, 2017, 12:03:08 pm
Grahame, I really do like your 'artistic' photograph of the point rodding and signal wires ;) :D


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on May 14, 2017, 03:38:41 pm
Please see my reply in post #4 on the previous page which summarises why that is not the preferred scheme.

There is a separate thread to this  ??? in which this route was also mentioned more recently, and I pointed out that the latest Wessex route study also doesn't support this:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18125.msg213081#msg213081

Paul

I searched for "Waterside line" and this seemed the most recent relevant thread.  CfN's the experts at 'merge and move' and I'm shore he'll shift me if appropriate.

Yes, agreed that the local government of the Solent area doesn't have this line as a preferred scheme, giving rise to the none-support in the Wessex route study.    You'll find considerable controversy over the decision by local government not to support this it's not at all a clear cut case of "my goodness what a stupid idea" though, and questions have been asked about the decision not to support, and the openness (or lack of it) of the process and how the conclusion was reached.

Things change over time too.  You have only to look at the number of lines and stations which in the 1960s weren't a preferred scheme for the future but which are now back on the agenda. I can find much more recent changes too.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: ChrisB on May 14, 2017, 04:50:05 pm
I think they want to support the Hythe ferry (and the local jobs), which this would hurt


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on May 14, 2017, 05:39:15 pm
I think they want to support the Hythe ferry (and the local jobs), which this would hurt

Yep ... hence this in my earlier report:

Quote
... the service would undoubtedly abstract traffic from the ferry, and indeed that abstraction could threaten the Ferry and historic [pier] railway's survival as an every-day service, and / or increase the subsidy it would need.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: chuffed on May 14, 2017, 06:21:10 pm
Hythe ferry is now operated by Blue Funnel and seems to be financially secure for now. However I am sure it is a case of 'use it or lose it!'.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: ray951 on May 14, 2017, 09:29:44 pm
Thanks for the report of the journey, but just a couple of corrections. Hythe and Fawley are on the west bank of Southampton Water and not the River Itchen, and the village at the end is called Calshot.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 14, 2017, 10:06:06 pm
Please see my reply in post #4 on the previous page which summarises why that is not the preferred scheme.

There is a separate thread to this  ??? in which this route was also mentioned more recently, and I pointed out that the latest Wessex route study also doesn't support this:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18125.msg213081#msg213081

Paul

I searched for "Waterside line" and this seemed the most recent relevant thread.  CfN's the experts at 'merge and move' and I'm shore he'll shift me if appropriate.


With thanks to grahame and paul7755 for raising the matter, I have now moved a few posts from the more specific 'Fawley Forester' excursion topic and merged them here, in this more general discussion of the possibility of reopening the railway line for passengers.



Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on May 15, 2017, 05:32:32 am
Thanks for the report of the journey, but just a couple of corrections. Hythe and Fawley are on the west bank of Southampton Water and not the River Itchen, and the village at the end is called Calshot.


Original now corrected - thanks for the notification


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: teamsaint on May 15, 2017, 07:45:59 pm
Thanks for that lovely report and photos, really enjoyed looking at them.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: TonyK on May 15, 2017, 09:49:09 pm
Thanks for that lovely report and photos, really enjoyed looking at them.


And so did I!


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on December 02, 2018, 04:26:20 pm
Many thanks to Nick Farthing of Three Rivers CRP for posting a pointer to this video on Youtube

Quote
This must be the easiest railway to reopen for passengers! Open for half its length to Marchwood and “mothballed” from there to Fawley gates! It’s a no brainier in my book!

Ah sh..... playback on other sites disabled

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/forest_1066.jpg)


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: Western Pathfinder on December 02, 2018, 11:17:09 pm
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xKLdHC0YBbg

This is the link to the above ,also available is the journey in the reverse direction
Thought it might be helpful.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on October 03, 2019, 07:37:45 am
An update from The Daily Echo (https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17943724.supporters-totton-fawley-rail-route-never-confident-success/)

Quote
CAMPAIGNERS calling for a Hampshire railway line to be reopened say their hopes of success have never been higher.

Cllr David Harrison and fellow enthusiasts want passenger services on the Totton to Fawley branch line to be restored to ease the ever-increasing burden on the A326 and other roads in the area.

The campaign has gained new momentum since Fawley Waterside unveiled plans to build up to 1,500 homes on land currently occupied by Fawley power station.

Having said which, local opinion is not unananymous - I spent a very interesting dinner a week ago learning about transport between the Waterside area (Totton, Marchwood, Dibden, Hythe, Fawley and Calstock) and Southampton  from one of the most informed gentlemen around on the history of the Hythe ferry, and a resident of that town, who re-raises a number of concerns.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on November 04, 2019, 08:58:31 am
Quote
Parish council throws its weight behind campaign to reopen Totton to Fawley branch railway

from The Daily Echo (https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/18011399.parish-council-throws-weight-behind-campaign-reopen-totton-fawley-branch-railway/)

I suspect that the Parish Council has very limited weight indeed to throw on matters like this, but very welcome as it sets the tone further and encourages more support.   Interesting to see the public follow up - much more positive than is usual in local press - too.   Whilst a Parish Council has little positive weight to throw, it's other courses would have been to ignore the proposal or (madly, IMHO) to throw rocks at it. 


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: grahame on February 21, 2020, 04:22:41 pm
Considerable activity of late ... though I have not posted things that's come my way. See https://www.facebook.com/WatersideRailwayPassengerService/ for recent Facebook posts.

Quote
It seems almost criminal that a perfectly good railway line, with almost all the infrastructure in place, is not being fully utilised for the benefit of both local people and others wanting to journey to the Waterside / New Forest by rail.

This Facebook page was set up for supporters of the campaign to restore the Waterside railway line so that it once again has a passenger service.

From Councillor Lee Whitbread:

Quote
Jumping on board to support the Waterside Railway.

Many residents I represent in Redbridge know all too well the huge problems we have in the west of the city with traffic coming and going from the waterside and these pressures are set to increase if Planning permission is given by New Forest District Council to approve a major housing development at the old Fawley Power station site which involve constructing 1500 homes. It is one reason I have been a strong supporter of reopening the waterside railway to passenger trains.

[snip]

I will continue to work with all interested parties to push for the reopening of this line which I believe would help to reduce car traffic on our busy roads and help to improve air quality.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: stuving on August 09, 2022, 09:54:49 am
I'm sure some things have happened since the last post here - trains, for example - but now something concrete has turned up. Network Rail have a page - The Waterside Line (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/wessex/the-waterside-line/) - with proposals, and a consultation exercise starts with a meeting tomorrow.
Quote
Our proposals

We are developing proposals that would see passenger services restored from Southampton Central to an upgraded station at Marchwood and a brand-new station in Hythe.

This would require the introduction of new railway infrastructure, particularly in the Hythe and Marchwood areas.

The proposed new services will call at Totton station, using the existing station.

To run the trains to and from Southampton Central we plan to refurbish Platform 5 to allow passenger services to terminate in the platform.

Hythe

Constructing a new station at Hythe with associated facilities, a new station forecourt, cycle facilities and connections for onward travel.

Two options for the station location in Hythe are being considered, one alongside the railway behind New Road car park and one alongside the railway between Jones Lane and School Road.
A map showing the Waterside Line rail corridor, including the eight existing level crossings and proposed stations at Marchwood and Hythe

Marchwood

Reopening Marchwood station with associated facilities, a new station forecourt, cycle facilities and connections for onward travel.


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: paul7575 on August 09, 2022, 12:17:00 pm
They mention in the FAQ section that there will be up to four level crossing closures per hour in the normal timetable which is probably a fairly reasonable hint that they intend to run 2 tph?


Title: Re: Reopening former rail line between Hythe and Totton - ongoing discussion, merged topic
Post by: stuving on August 09, 2022, 12:19:37 pm
They mention in the FAQ section that there will be up to four level crossing closures per hour in the normal timetable which is probably a fairly reasonable hint that they intend to run 2 tph?

That depends on how you understand "up to", doesn't it?



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