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All across the Great Western territory => Looking forward - after Coronavirus to 2045 => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on April 20, 2012, 14:56:31



Title: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 20, 2012, 14:56:31
From the Wiltshire Gazette & Herald (http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/9661382.Have_your_say_on_bid_to_protect_Great_Western_Railway_s_history/):

Quote
English Heritage is seeking views on the historic and architectural significance of a number of historic railway buildings, bridges and tunnels along the 116 miles of track of the Great Western main line, which runs from London^s Paddington Station to Bristol^s Temple Meads.

The pioneering Great Western route was built 176 years ago by the eminent engineer Isambard Kingdom Brunel, to open up new trade routes between London and Bristol.

Network Rail^s 10-year improvement plan, which is due to be completed by 2017, includes electrifying part of the historic line.

In response to this major project, English Heritage, with the support from Network Rail, is consulting on the histories and descriptions of 50 buildings and structures which have been identified, as deserving closer attention.

These include bridges and other structures in or around Maidenhead, Reading, Oxford, Newbury, Bath and Bristol.

The consultation, which runs from now until May 9, will help confirm the part these played in the development of the line and provide evidence of their significance.

Following the consultation, English Heritage will recommend to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport which should be designated.

Network Rail has been carrying out a comprehensive survey of the parts of the Great Western main line that will be modernised.

A gazetteer of all the structures along the route has been produced by their consultants, Alan Baxter and Associates, as well as a detailed Statement of History and Significance.

Read together, the documents provide a detailed history of the development of the line as well as identifying significant structures.

Local authorities, the Victorian Society, amenity groups such as the Railway Heritage Trust, Steam Museum and National Railway Museum are some of the bodies being consulted as well as railway enthusiasts and the general public.

Emily Gee, Head of Designation at English Heritage, said: "While the whole Great Western Railway is historically remarkable, statutory listing is warranted for its buildings of special architectural or historic interest.

"After carefully examining the documentary evidence and the structures themselves, it is likely that certain further bridges and other railway buildings will merit listing, and others might be upgraded to better reflect their importance.

"English Heritage is working closely with Network Rail and their professional advisers ^ and now the public ^ to fully understand and protect the most special aspects of this significant Victorian railway achievement, to help prepare it for its next exciting phase."

Patrick Hallgate, Route Managing Director for Network Rail Western, said: "The Great Western Railway is undergoing the biggest investment since it was built by Brunel to deliver faster, greener, more reliable services with additional seats for passengers.

"Electrification will improve links between towns and cities and, critically, help stimulate economic growth across the region. "We recognise the historical and heritage significance of this railway, which is why we^re working closely with English Heritage now to make sure that any sensitive structures are safeguarded ahead of construction."

The consultation is on-line at www.english-heritage.org.uk/gwml-consultation


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: Electric train on April 20, 2012, 18:23:58
Maidenhead station  :o :o :o


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: eightf48544 on April 21, 2012, 06:29:56
Surely you mean Maidenhead Bridge!

Taplow station has more architectural merit than Maidenhead apart from the roof over platform 5 at Maidenhead.


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: Phil on April 21, 2012, 17:20:44
Passenger Footbridge, Chippenham station....


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 21, 2012, 17:41:41
As usual 'historic and architectural significance' doesn't necessarily mean pretty!


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: Electric train on April 21, 2012, 18:04:18
Surely you mean Maidenhead Bridge!

Taplow station has more architectural merit than Maidenhead apart from the roof over platform 5 at Maidenhead.

All 3 are shown on the map, it will be the train shed at Maidenhead unique I think possible even built a "transfer shed" when the GW mainline went narrow and the High Wycombe mainline stayed at the correct guage as Brunel intended all railways should be  ;D


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: The SprinterMeister on April 22, 2012, 18:01:13
From the Wiltshire Gazette & Herald (http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/9661382.Have_your_say_on_bid_to_protect_Great_Western_Railway_s_history/):

Quote
English Heritage is seeking views on the historic and architectural significance of a number of historic railway buildings, bridges and tunnels along the 116 miles of track of the Great Western main line, which runs from London^s Paddington Station to Bristol^s Temple Meads.

The pioneering Great Western route was built 176 years ago by the eminent engineer Isambard Kingdom Brunel, to open up new trade routes between London and Bristol.

Network Rail^s 10-year improvement plan, which is due to be completed by 2017, includes electrifying part of the historic line.

In response to this major project, English Heritage, with the support from Network Rail, is consulting on the histories and descriptions of 50 buildings and structures which have been identified, as deserving closer attention.

These include bridges and other structures in or around Maidenhead, Reading, Oxford, Newbury, Bath and Bristol.

The consultation, which runs from now until May 9, will help confirm the part these played in the development of the line and provide evidence of their significance.

Following the consultation, English Heritage will recommend to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport which should be designated.

Network Rail has been carrying out a comprehensive survey of the parts of the Great Western main line that will be modernised.

A gazetteer of all the structures along the route has been produced by their consultants, Alan Baxter and Associates, as well as a detailed Statement of History and Significance.

Read together, the documents provide a detailed history of the development of the line as well as identifying significant structures.

Local authorities, the Victorian Society, amenity groups such as the Railway Heritage Trust, Steam Museum and National Railway Museum are some of the bodies being consulted as well as railway enthusiasts and the general public.

Emily Gee, Head of Designation at English Heritage, said: "While the whole Great Western Railway is historically remarkable, statutory listing is warranted for its buildings of special architectural or historic interest.

"After carefully examining the documentary evidence and the structures themselves, it is likely that certain further bridges and other railway buildings will merit listing, and others might be upgraded to better reflect their importance.

"English Heritage is working closely with Network Rail and their professional advisers ^ and now the public ^ to fully understand and protect the most special aspects of this significant Victorian railway achievement, to help prepare it for its next exciting phase."

Patrick Hallgate, Route Managing Director for Network Rail Western, said: "The Great Western Railway is undergoing the biggest investment since it was built by Brunel to deliver faster, greener, more reliable services with additional seats for passengers.

"Electrification will improve links between towns and cities and, critically, help stimulate economic growth across the region. "We recognise the historical and heritage significance of this railway, which is why we^re working closely with English Heritage now to make sure that any sensitive structures are safeguarded ahead of construction."

The consultation is on-line at www.english-heritage.org.uk/gwml-consultation

Didn't take long for English Heritage to start poking their oar in. Just as I said they would. No doubt this will add further costs and delays to getting the wires up from Stockley Bridge to Bristol via Bath. Are we running a transport system here or a bloody museum? If its the latter they'd better give the HST sets another heavy overhaul + MTU R43 retrofit then.


Title: Great Western main line's Victorian buildings protected (BBC News 22/04/2012)
Post by: JayMac on April 23, 2012, 00:18:50
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17805708):

Quote
Plans are being drawn up to preserve historic parts of the Great Western main line.

English Heritage is teaming up with National Rail while it modernises the track to protect old structures and buildings along the line.

The 116-mile (187km) line was built 176 years ago by Isambard Kingdom Brunel to open up trade routes.

It runs from London through Berkshire, Oxfordshire, Wiltshire, Somerset and Gloucestershire to Bristol.

Network Rail is spending ^350m on expanding and electrifying part of the Great Western main line over the next five years.

Views wanted

At the same time English Heritage is drawing up a list of bridges, tunnels, viaducts and other buildings along the line which it thinks are of particular importance and need protecting.

It has identified 50 buildings and structures as deserving closer attention and is now consulting the public to see which Victorian structures they love most.

People have until 9 May to make their comments.

Emily Gee, head of designation at English Heritage, said: "While the whole Great Western railway is historically remarkable, statutory listing is warranted for its buildings of special architectural or historic interest.

"After carefully examining the documentary evidence and the structures themselves, it is likely that certain further bridges and other railway buildings will merit listing, and others might be upgraded to better reflect their importance.

"English Heritage is working closely with Network Rail and their professional advisers - and now the public - to fully understand and protect the most special aspects of this significant Victorian railway achievement, to help prepare it for its next exciting phase."


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: eightf48544 on April 23, 2012, 18:23:25
No doubt the NO WIRES across Maidenhead Bridge will be out in force.

My answer is how dare they insult Isambard Kingdom Brunel who would have had 25kv wires over that bridge if the technology had been available then we'rd have had 200 mph + broad  trains now.

And also what an engineer to produce a bridge like that designed for 60 mph 100 ton trains to take 125 mph HSTs and 3000 tonne stone trains and now electric trains.

Sydney Gardens is probaly more of problem as the ELFs will insist on it being fenced as the British public is too stupid to realise 25Kv overhed wires can kill if you are sillyenough to touch them.


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: The SprinterMeister on April 24, 2012, 19:04:03
No doubt the NO WIRES across Maidenhead Bridge will be out in force.

My answer is how dare they insult Isambard Kingdom Brunel who would have had 25kv wires over that bridge if the technology had been available then we'rd have had 200 mph + broad  trains now.

Well if they are that worried about OHLE on Maidenhead Bridge you could always terminate Crossrail at Slough and make the silly buggers walk or catch a stopping 165 unit to Slough.

Sydney Gardens is probaly more of problem as the ELFs will insist on it being fenced as the British public is too stupid to realise 25Kv overhed wires can kill if you are sillyenough to touch them.
The whole section from Thingley Jn to Bristol TM is to all intents and purposes largley orignal with most of the Brunel 'Gloomy Gothic' overbridges and structures still in place. You can imagine English Heritage having an absolute field day with that little lot in terms of trying to prevent the Catenary being put up. Hence my comment about whether we are running a transport system here or a museum.


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: JayMac on April 24, 2012, 19:31:18
English Heritage will, I hope, not stand in the way of electrification of the GWML. It's more likely that a vocal minority of NiMBYs will take to the press, airwaves and internet to decry wires over Maidenhead Railway Bridge, through Box Tunnel and through Sidney Gardens.


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 24, 2012, 19:32:13
Hence my comment about whether we are running a transport system here or a museum.

My personal opinion: I agree with that view.  I enjoyed a detailed and erudite discussion on the whole subject with bignosemac earlier today, and that remains my stance.  Chris.  :-X


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: The SprinterMeister on April 24, 2012, 19:45:39
English Heritage will, I hope, not stand in the way of electrification of the GWML. It's more likely that a vocal minority of NiMBYs will take to the press, airwaves and internet to decry wires over Maidenhead Railway Bridge, through Box Tunnel and through Sidney Gardens.
I think there was some seperate proposal to fence off part of Sydney Gardens as it seems the low ornate wall which deliniated the boundary is no longer deemed fit for purpose. No doubt this will be done once the catenary starts to appear.

There was simalar outcry when BR proposed erecting OHLE across the Border Bridge at Berwick on Tweed, however this as we all know happened albeit with a modified form of catenary support structure. I seem to remember there was some half assed proposal that trains should drop their pans and coast across that bridge. I'm not sure where that gormless proposal eminated from but I don't think it was attributable to English Heritage.


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: Electric train on April 25, 2012, 07:58:19
English Heritage are will not stand in the way of the GW electrification because NR have been with consulting them to develop solutions.  Sydney Gardens do pose a few issue I know the GW electrification team have a workable solution agree with English Heritage and the local authority.

NR and English Heritage have a good working relationship look at Kings Cross the 4th arch at Paddington etc.


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 25, 2012, 21:08:12
I think there was some seperate proposal to fence off part of Sydney Gardens as it seems the low ornate wall which deliniated the boundary is no longer deemed fit for purpose. No doubt this will be done once the catenary starts to appear.

Indeed: we had a previous discussion on that subject, here on the forum, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4240.msg36143#msg36143  :)


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: tramway on April 27, 2012, 15:57:08
Didn't Brunel go through quite a bit of "Roman" heritage during construction of the line.  ;)



Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: JayMac on April 27, 2012, 22:28:10
That he did. And flicking through my I.K. Brunel biography by L.T.C. Rolt it would appear that Bath had it's fair share of NIMBYs way back in the late 1830s as well.


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: bobm on April 27, 2012, 23:47:05
I picked up a copy of that book for ^2 in a charity shop in Penzance last week.  Interestingly on the way back on the train I was listening to a podcast by Adrian Vaughan who has uncovered evidence that some of Mr Rolt's material in relation to Brunel is not correct.

http://audioboo.fm/boos/409993-isambard-kingdom-brunel-the-intemperate-engineer (http://audioboo.fm/boos/409993-isambard-kingdom-brunel-the-intemperate-engineer)



Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: JayMac on April 28, 2012, 00:24:57
Thanks for that bobm. A most interesting listen. I still rate L.T.C. Rolt's biography of IKB, despite this more modern revisionism.

It's a truism of all historical accounts that different historians will come to different conclusions. And each of those historians will have their preconceived ideas about the person and events they are writing about.

Oh, and who is 'Jeremy Lloyd-Pack' (from 13:19 on the audioboo track) from 'The Vicar of Dibley'? Howard Benson himself was getting a bit confused there I think. If he'd met the guy surely he would know it's 'Roger Lloyd-Pack'...



Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 29, 2012, 23:09:38
From the Swindon Advertiser (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9844131.Railway_history_is_listed_for_posterity/):

Quote
Railway history is listed for posterity

The legacy of the Great Western main line will live on after more than 40 structures were given protected status by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport.

They include the Roman Road Bridge in Ermin Street, and the stone building on Swindon station platform, which have both been given Grade II listed status.

English Heritage^s project to safeguard historic railway buildings, bridges and tunnels along the line, has resulted in 35 new listings and seven structures already listed being upgraded.

Stretching from London Paddington to Temple Meads in Bristol, construction on the route began in 1836 to the designs of the father of railway engineering, Isambard Kingdom Brunel. ^The Box tunnel in Wiltshire, one of the most extensive and famous of the pioneering Great Western Tunnels has been listed at grade II, while the Roman Road Bridge ^ of an unusual rounded arch design thought to be a conscious reference to antiquity by Brunel ^ has received the same status.

The Dauntsey and Hunts Mill road bridges and the bridge near Swindon Road, part of a cluster dating from between 1839 and 1940, are being listed at Grade II as are the River Avon Viaduct, from the 1840s, and the entrance portals of the Chipping Sodbury tunnel and its six ventilator shafts.

Emily Gee, head of designation at English Heritage, said: ^This scale of consultation on designation cases is unusual for English Heritage and we were delighted with the thoughtful responses we received from railway history experts, local authorities and other heritage bodies. ^I am also impressed by Network Rail ^s commitment to respecting the special structures in their care.^.

Patrick Hallgate, route managing director at Network Rail, said: ^The Great Western railway is undergoing the biggest investment since it was built in order to deliver faster and more reliable journeys for passengers. ^The results of the consultation , provide an important step forward in modernising this rail route. It enables us to make informed decisions and, critically, protect sensitive structures while delivering major improvement work.^

Earlier this year, English Heritage ^ with the support from Network Rail ^ held a consultation on the history and descriptions of 50 buildings and structures in and around Maidenhead, Reading, Oxford, Newbury, Bath and Bristol. The consultation process involved a range of organisations and English Heritage worked closely with Network Rail and its professional advisers, and consulted local authorities, the Victorian Society and amenity groups like the Railway Heritage Trust, Steam Museum and National Railway Museum.


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: bobm on July 30, 2012, 11:29:07
The BBC have also picked up on this - interestingly their article is illustated with the less famous Eastern portal of Box Tunnel.  Wonder if that was by accident or design!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-19045675 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-19045675)


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: bobm on July 30, 2012, 14:49:00
Talking of Brunel and his structures there are a crop of Brunel based programmes on TV in the coming weeks - I think all are repeats, but I havent seen all of them.

30th July 16:00 Blighty (534) Great Britons - Jeremy Clarkson's look at IKB (also at 20:00 and 00:00 as well as 13:00, 18:00 and 22:00 on 30th Aug)
31st July 13:30 Discovery History (Sky 522) Building Wonders - a look at the construction of Box Tunnel
8th Aug 09:00 Discovery Shed (242) Garden Railway - a man whose model railway in his garden features many Brunel structures
11th Aug 08:00 Discover Wars (523) Off The Rails - description says broad-gauge wars at a centre dedicated to Brunel's GWR (also at 17:30 and 03:00 the next morning)
21st Aug 12:30 Blighty (534) Climbing Great Buildings - Clifton Suspension Bridge (also at 17:30, 21:30 and 01:30 the next morning)


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: Tim on July 30, 2012, 16:57:34
I picked up a copy of that book for ^2 in a charity shop in Penzance last week.  Interestingly on the way back on the train I was listening to a podcast by Adrian Vaughan who has uncovered evidence that some of Mr Rolt's material in relation to Brunel is not correct.

http://audioboo.fm/boos/409993-isambard-kingdom-brunel-the-intemperate-engineer (http://audioboo.fm/boos/409993-isambard-kingdom-brunel-the-intemperate-engineer)



Adrian Vaughan of course has his own biography of IKB.  My preference is for Rolt, but both books are certainly worth a read. 


Title: Re: Have your say on bid to protect Great Western Railway's history
Post by: JayMac on July 30, 2012, 18:19:48
Agreed. I've now read 'The Intemperate Engineer' by Adrian Vaughan. Still prefer Rolt.  ;)



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