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There is talk about the helicopter link to Scilly moving to St.Erth from Penzance.

'THE HELICOPTER link to the Isles of Scilly could be retained in west Cornwall after a deal was struck for an alternative site in St Erth.

British International Helicopters (BIH) confirmed this week it had reached an agreement with a landowner for a new heliport adjacent to the St Erth industrial estate off the A30.

The move is subject to planning permission and the successful sale of the current heliport at Eastern Green in Penzance to supermarket giant Sainsbury's. But if successful, it will create a transport hub enabling passengers easy access to the helicopters from the mainline train station and the A30.'

Full story here: http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/cornwall/Deal-struck-save-link-Scilly/article-3570868-detail/article.html

As if they didn't have enough supermarkets in that area, they're going to get another!

I'm sure that had the Helicoptor service moved to Newquay, with the extra fuel costs (oh and ^5 airport tax) I very much doubt that it would run for two years before being AXED.

Mind anyone with half a Brain would build a New Supermarket on the Heliport site put a flat rooof on it and have a Helipad on top  ;D ;D

BIH (the Isles of Scilly helicopter) have stopped taking bookings for travel after 31st October, pending moving their operations from Penzance. They are currently awaiting to see if planning permission will be granted for a supermarket (Sainsburys) to be built on the current heliport site. If it is, they will then decide from where they will operate. 4 sites were possible, Lands End (now discounted due to local opposition), "somewhere" just outside Penzance, and as mentioned above near St.Erth or Newquay.

BIH have already purchased/rented a hangar at Newquay for maintainence purposes

BIH's website (http://www.islesofscillyhelicopter.com/) frontpage confirms they are taking bookings beyond 31st October.

Heliport proposals for west Cornwall village 

British International Helicopters confirm their preferred site for flights is in St Erth

A helicopter company has said plans for its new Cornish heliport should go on show in a month.

British International Helicopters has confirmed its preferred site for the flights to the Isles of Scilly is in a field in west Cornwall.

People living in St Erth near Penzance said they did not know the service was planned for the site.

more ^..

WWW.BBC.CO.UK/NEWS (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-13954667)
29-Jun-2011 @ 20:51

Heliport Plans submitted so far to Cornwall Council ...

Will help with location guidance
 
see here ^..

PLANNING.CORNWALL.GOV.UK/ONLINE-APPLICATIONS (http://planning.cornwall.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=LLPB22FG0CB00)
18-Jul-2011 @ 16:25

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-15698803):

Bad news for Scilly, the ferry is in need of replacement soon, the docking facilities at both ends need ungrading and no finance is forthcoming for either. Doubling the journey time from Newquay for the Helicopter service will result in both less and more expensive journies. Shame really.

Bit half baked selling the Pzed Heliport site to Sainsburys before a new site had been agreed really...

Still a nice new supermarket should create a few more nice empty / closed shops for the townspeople of Pzed.

most of PZ already empty so will create some much needed jobs for the town.

Compared to Other places the Size of Penzance, Penzance is riding things well, there aren't that many empty Shops in Penzance.

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-15902741):

Radio Cornwall is reporting that the helicopter service to the Islands will finish in November after nearly 50 years. This will be a sad blow to the Islands and Penzance.

From the  BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-19090660)


FGW have sold travel packages including the helicopter for a few years - see  here. (http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Destinations/Top-destinations/Isles-of-Scilly)

 ::) bloody Tesco have a lot to answer for !  :'( :'(

I thought it was Tresco they flew to!  :P ;) ;D

Seriously though, it does appear that Tesco's legal challenge (along with legal challenges from two private individuals) against the sale of BIH owned land to Sainsbury's is the root cause of BIH's decision to withdraw the helicopter service to the islands.

British International Helicoptors' press release regarding the closure of the Isles of Scilly flights can be read at the following link:

http://www.islesofscillyhelicopter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/BIH-FINAL-media-release-announcement.pdf

Very sad news, and bad for Scillies' economy.

My one and only helicopter flight (well two really, as I came back too!), indeed my first time off the ground, some time about 40 years ago. It was ^25 return I seem to recall. Never have been on Scillonian - after seeing her tied up to Penzance harbour when the tide went out, more keel on a rowing boat!

BIH's statement that "the land needed to be sold in a reasonable time frame to release the capital required to continue the service" suggests that this isn't the _root_ cause, more like the failure of a final roll of the dice. 

Very sad news all the same.  Helicopter is the most comfortable way to travel the Isles.  The Scillonian voyage is hard on the stomach and a fixed wing take off from that short cliff-top runway at St Mary's is hard on the nerves.

Agree, if presumably freehold land has to be sold to fund continuing operations, that does suggest that the business was not viable.
A successful business would generate sufficient revenue to fund all day to day operating costs, and also to put money into a sinking fund or reserve fund, for large but relatively rare expenses such as purchasing new aircraft.

Helicopters use a great deal of increasingly expensive fuel, which is certain to become more expensive still.
I do not see a long term future for helicopters as everday transport.
As the cheap oil era draws to a close, we may have to accept that some small and/or remote islands will again become less accesable, as was the case within living memorary.

In a similar vein, the continuation of the Southsea - Ryde Hovercraft appears to defy normal economic logic - you'd have thought their fuel costs were significantly high compared to a normal ferry...

Paul

The land needed to be sold to release capital as the current helicopters are edging towards the end of their operational lifes. The capital from the land sale was to fund the purchase of the new helicopters. Sadly no land sale, no money for new helicopters, and current ones are at the end of their operational life.

On a side note Isles of Scilly Steamship co which runs skybus flights and the scillonian ferry have been very quick announcing they have more than sufficient resources to create spare capacity to transport the 70000 passenger journeys being made annually by the helicopter.

However this service closure will remove the direct link between the mainland and Tresco as that island currently has no facilities, that I am aware of, for fixed wing aircraft or larger passenger vessels such as the Scillonian III.

I wonder if airships might yet make a comeback ?
They still need fuel, but much less than a helicopter.
Helicopters are inherently potentialy dangerous, in the event of mechanical failure they are apt to crash very quickly indeed with little hope for those on board.

Air ships will drift with the wind, not crash if the engine power fails.
The lifting gas is contained in more than one compartment, and any puncture or leakage should result in a slow and relatively controlled descent.

The main drawbacks of airships are that they cant fly in very high winds, and that they are filled with helium* which is expensive and may be in future short supply.
The helium is not consumed as fuel would be, but does gradually leak or escape and require periodic topping up.

*hydrogen is an alternative in theory, but is generaly considered too flammable for manned craft. It has been proposed to use a mixture of hydrogen and helium, with hydrogen being present in the greatest proprtion that gives a safe mixture.

Helicopters don't just fall like a stone if the engine fails.  They are designed to glide and make a controlled landing under autorotation.  The main rotor is driven round by air resistance and exerts a braking influence as the aircraft falls - similar principle to a sycamore seed.  All pilots are trained to do this.  So long as you have enough altitude and the sea is reasonably calm, the odds of survival are pretty good.

I'd rather be in a helicopter than an airship.

As for airships plying the route between Cornwall and the Isles.... that's just Scilly.  ;)

In the interests of continuity and completeness, I've now split off and merged some posts from a previous topic with this one.  CfN.   ;)

'Autorotation' does indeed permit helicopters which have suffered engine failure to make a reasonably controlled descent and landing. Unfortunately a significant number of accidents have been caused by rotor gearbox failure at which point the machine adopts the aerodynamic properties of a brick. I don't think it is fair to describe helicopters as inherently dangerous as most larger commercial transport models are twin-engined and will fly quite happily, although very slowly, on one power unit.

Don't think airships would be much cop if they don't like wind! Land's end and that bit of the Atlantic are peobably one of the windiest places in the UK. This may be good in one respect that the business case for a new Scillonian may be a litle more robust now, if they had something faster they could run 2 possibly 3 trips per day, they can run 2 now if they have to as they don for the Gig racing.

Anyone for a Hovercraft service PNZ to Scilly?  ::)

What about a rail tunnel? Paddington to St. Mary's direct.  ;)

IIRC there were 3 objectors to the Sainsburys Plan.

However 2 objectors, (one was Tesco) dropped their objections (mainly due to the bad publicity) but ONE objection still remains, I just wonder if the IOS Steamship Company or someone connected have objected, bearing in mind some of the rumours and the OLD principal there are NO friends in business!

However the helicopters have been running for YEARS, since 1964, and the fact that the land had to be sold to raise cash to purchase new helicopters makes me wonder was the helicopter service viable or somewhat badly managed?

And on a side there were plans for a new ferry terminal in Penzance, but that was held up by protests about builing on the battery rocks in Penzance, the Con/Lib government dropped the ferry terminal plan as NOT VFM.

Whilst I was basically for the new ferry terminal, but why on earth don't they build it on the Albert Pier. that has direct access to a large Car Park and even more importanly less than 5 Minutes walk to both Penzance Railway & Bus Stations.

However my support for the New Ferry has vanish as I've heard that Cornwall councils plans were for a RO RO ferry.
ROll On, Roll Off Ferry? The whole beauty is that the Isles of Scilly  are pretty much CAR FREE!

Anyone able to confirm the RO RO plan?

I've heard a flying instructor who didn't like helicopters say that your life depends on one nut, or two if you count the pilot. Trains are dangerous if they are badly maintained or operated in a dangerous way; helicopters are similar in this respect, but without the option of coasting to a halt on level ground. There has been only one serious incident on the Scillies helicopter service, which sadly resulted in the loss of 20 lives, although 6 survived. The cause was determined by the AAIB to be pilot error, in effect trying to fly at 250 feet under low cloud, and hitting the water. I don't think of that as an indication of inherent danger.

The local rag  (http://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/westcornwall/9884807.Isles_of_Scilly_helicopter_link_is_saved/) seemed to think the service is now safe. British International Helicopter's (http://www.islesofscillyhelicopter.com/) website, sadly, does not.

As to the IOW hovercraft, I've watched it coming into and going out of Ryde. The biggest vessel holds 130 people, and it seemed fairly full most journeys that I saw. I can't think of another way of getting people into Ryde from Southsea as quickly and easily, so I guess it is viable. I recall reading an article about Hoverspeed's former French hovercraft, which said maintaining the rubber skirt is a major expense. The IOW service doesn't have the same battering. It has four diesel engines, two to lift, two to propel, I have no idea how much fuel they use. But I assume the service is thriving, and will continue until someone thinks of a better way.

Unless Hovertravel try to sell the apron to Sainsbury, that is...

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20567380):

Skybus have a captive market now. The picture shows G-CBML, a 32 year old Twin Otter, at Lands End Airport. Don't be concerned with the age of the plane, they are tremendously robust machines, and are subject to a rigorous maintenance regime. They are checked for the basics by the pilot before every flight, have a 50-hour inspection by an authorised engineer, and a more invasive 100-hour inspection by the same. They have an annual inspection which typically takes a few days, and the engines have a finite life. The engine service is a major one at 1800 hours, and a very major service at 3600 hours. I have seen figures that show that if you lavished the same care on your car, it would last 2000 years. Helicopters need much more TLC.The leading edge of the rotor blades in particular need considerable attention, and are vital to a safe flight.

I have a son-in-law in the RAF who recently switched from VC10 tankers to helicopters. In VC10 work, he used to patch them up, and figure out what faults they could fly with. The Pumas have to be 100% fit before every flight. This is not to say that choppers are intrinsically unsafe, just that no-one will take any chances with them.

Grass runways are fun to land on, when dry. You fly past them at about 300 feet, to the right, and inspect the surface, if you don't have someone on the ground telling you what the conditions are like. Then you fly around to final approach, and approach as slowly as you dare, with full flap. Then you "hold off" a few feet above the threshold, keeping the aircraft flying as long as you can. When the wheels touch, you slow down very quickly, without brakes. A friend in my aero club landed at Compton Abbas after rain. He is a big man, and had a passenger. He got down to about 50 knots in a Piper Cherokee, with the stall warning indicator buzzing. When the wheels touched, it stopped. He bashed his nose on the dashboard, and needed full power to taxy out of the mud. That is the limitation of using fixed wing craft at Lands End, especially in a summer like we have just had.

I know I shouldn't have, but that part of your post made me laugh. Hope his nose wasn't seriously damaged. I believe pilots live by the mantra that, "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing."  ;D

Don't worry - it made me laugh too, and he saw the funny side later.  You're right about a good landing, too. The other favoured maxim is "Better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here."

Going off-topic a bit, but the 3 most useless things in aviation are:

1. Sky above you
2. Runway behind you
3. Fuel in the bowser

TC (belated driver light aeroplanes)

Correct! You only have too much fuel if you are on fire.

When I read this, I realise why, when offered a choice, I choose the train over the plane!  Not sure about the viability of a tunnel to the Isles of Silly though.

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20651080):

Any bashed noses before the switch?

The expense of switching flights to Newquay would be considerable. Not only is it further, leading to added fuel costs, but Newquay airport's "development fee" of ^5 per passenger, in addition to landing fees, will have made inroads into any remaining profit. On top of that. at least some of their passengers will have had a substantial land journey, although for others, it will have been a shorter drive. Fair play to Skybus for not just shutting up shop during the bad weather.

Skybus instructed customers to attend Lands End for check in, and then bussed passengers through to Newquay. Obviously passengers need their cars at Lands End for returning, I also wonder if checking in at Lands End avoids the ^5 airport tax thing, as it is effectively paid at Newquay to check in.

Bit of a bugger if you live in Newquay and are going to the Scillies.

Wouldnt you therefore book one of the scheduled Newquay - Scillies flights?

I was thinking of the fearful flyer who had already booked the shortest possible crossing, or the hard-up, who thought he would save ^15 a head by driving to Lands End, but your point is well made!

Again, due to the weather, any potential for a nose/dashboard interface at Land's End Airport has been averted:

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20739869):

... or a dashboard-in-yer-face ... ?  ;D

Again, the airport at Land's End has closed due to weather:

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20943869):

This trouble at St Just must be costing Skybus a fortune.

They own the airfield, so presumably don't charge themselves landing/parking/handling fees.

At NQY, I imagine they will have to pay all of these, plus the additional cost of the longer flights between there and St. Mary's.

Not sustainable in the long term, I would suggest.

About 800 metres of something harder could be needed at St. Just?

And not forgetting they are bussing passengers from St Just to Newquay, and as asked previously what about the ^5 passenger levy? Not sure if this applies, as it is something paid on check in at Newquay, and St Just passengers need to book in at St Just

They kind of own the airfield. The operator is Westward Airways Ltd, separate from Skybus, but both are owned by the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company. Westward used to run the Lands End Flying School, but stopped that part of their operations recently. They sold their two Cessna 152s, but retained the other two aircraft they own, Cessna 172s. These will be transferred to Skybus to use for pleasure flights under their operators' licence.

Whilst building a solid runway isn't quite as simple as it sounds, 800m is probably enough. Both the Dash 6 and the Islander, the types operated by Skybus, can get off the floor to 50 feet and land from the same height in under 400m. 800m would allow for water on the runway, hot weather, crosswinds, and all the other things that potentially can extend the take-off run of an aircraft.

Grass has its advantages though, when it isn't waterlogged. Whilst you wouldn't want to try it in an A380, it is softer on the aircraft, and helps with braking. The Skybus planes probably only use their brakes for parking, having reversible pitch propellors to slow down, or even go backwards. Grass runways need frequent maintenance, but of the gardening type. The grass should be kept short, and any holes that appear should be dealt with at once.

If Skybus were to lay asphalt or concrete, they would probably need planning permission. Because it is to be used for public transport flights, it would also need the CAA's blessing. Civil Aviation Publication CAP 791  (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP791.pdf)is the document that shows how complex a process this would be. It would certainly be seen as a major change to the infrastructure, and they would have to give plenty of notice of intention to proceed. For changes to runway lighting, the CAA reckons on a lead-in time of six months, so a plan for a new runway would need no shorter period of notice. The CAA, who charge for their services, would be involved at every step of the process, to ensure compliance with agreed plans, and to save the developer the expense of having to rip up and start again anything that does not meet the exacting standards demanded of a licensed aerodrome.

Although the  runways at EGHC  (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-ACC20902004DE8ACDD3EEE04BFE5F91A/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/NON_AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGHC_2-1_en_2009-11-19.pdf)are to some extent separate, I cannot see how the airport could continue to operate with the work in progress. When the concrete / ashpalt is dry, there would need to be a period of inspection and testing, plus amendment of procedures, the Aeronatical Infromation Publications,and any other ancillary works.

I reckon it could be done within 18 months, by which time it may have stopped raining. I think a few diversions to Newquay will be preferable. If a hard runway is wanted, building a new airport somewhere close by may be the better option.

An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-21041888):

A further update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-21921767):

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22058883):

It may sound odd, but to quote Tom Jones, it's not unusual. Even light aircraft, like my formerly beloved Piper Cherokee, are routinely flown to their new destination. An auxilliary tank is usually fitted instead of the rear seat rather than in the luggage hold, to help with balance. Last stop on the American continent is often St Johns, Newfoundland, before the long hop to Greenland, then Reykavik, the often Prestwick. There are many specialist ferry companies that will do the job, which is not cheap.

Some pilots don't fancy the rigours of the North Atlantic in an unpressurised aircraft. The traditional way to get out of bumpy air is to climb, but you lose around 1 degree centigrade for every 500 feet, and icing quickly becomes an issue. The alternative is to head south to Florida, then over the Caribbean to Venezuela, then Brazil. The big hop then is to the Azores or even mainland Africa, and requires nerves of steel, as well as exceptional navigation skills. The biggest tank you can fit into the aircraft is called for - in aviation, you only have too much fuel if you are on fire.

Twin Otters are wonderful little aircraft. People I have spoken to who fly them for a job say they are very easy to fly, and extremely versatile. They take off and land in very little space, and are quite happy landing even on a beach. Time I went to the Scillies!

As chance would have it Four Track, I find myself tonight in Reykjavik and only a stones-throw from the domestic airport. If the latest Skybus acquisition escapes the frozen clutches of Churchill, Manitoba (where it has been grounded due weather for the last 2 days), I may well see it here over the next few days on its way east.

We arrived up the road at Keflavik this morning and when we landed the weather was doing it's best to live up to the Icelandic stereotype of "4 seasons in one day", with driving snow and cloud "on the deck" on minute, and bright blue skies the next!

I understand this "Twotter" is being ferried by a guy with experience of flying them for The British Antarctic Survey, a person one would expect therefore to have lots of the kind of experience needed to undertake this kind of mission.

I've experienced these aircraft as a passenger (on scenic flights over the Grand Canyon) and would describe the experience as being a bit like flying in an oversized Cessna 172, albeit with an extra engine and a bit more speed!

To quote Benny the Ball: "OK TC!". You may even try to cadge a crafty lift home. I have yet to visit Reykjavik, which explains why I can't spell it. BAS experience is perfect for a flight like this. It is over 1000 NM from St Johns Newfoundland to Nuuk on Greenland, and nearly as far again to Reykjaik. In a plane with a cruise speed of 150 knots, that gives a flight time in perfect weather of over 6 hours. Although the Twin Otter is equipped with quite sophisticated navigational equipment, it will still be a long shift. My own longest continuous spell behind the yoke is under 2 hours, and although I thoroughly enjoyed it, I was glad to climb out of the cockpit at the end. The crux will be the planning, and no good pilot would chance his arm in any weather with uncertainty built in. A number of ferry flights of all types of aircraft have come to sticky ends - Hawaii has seen bigger aircraft ditch within sight of shore after an unexpected headwind had eaten into the planned fuel stocks. So better to hang around for a couple of days to catch the right conditions than risk a plane with a $7 million price tag and a pilot with a beating heart. As aviators say on bad days: "Better to be down here wishing you were up there than up there wishing you were down here".

GPS has transformed trans-Atlantic aviation, but is less than 20 years old. Prior to that, it wasn't possible to be sure of your position with accuracy, nor to track an aircraft all the way across the Atlantic. Air Traffic controllers would dispatch a Boeing 747 into the unknown to the north-west of Scotland, and would only know it had got across the ocean safely when it contacted St Johns radar. Nothing is infallible, so your ferry pilot will be prepared for navigation using the dead-reckoning methods employed by Charles Lindbergh and others. Respect.

As an aside, my daughter spent 6 months working in the Falklands, and had a ride in the right-hand front seat of an Islander between Mount Pleasant and West Falkland. The pilot chose his own route, giving her and her colleagues a sightseeing tour rather than an A to B flight. It's dirty work, but someone has to do it. (Grrrr!)

A fellow club member and his wife undertook a ferry flight to bring a PA28 (or Piper Cherokee) from Larnaka to Bristol. The nearest landfall is a short hop to Turkey, but at the time they did it, aircraft originating in the Greek-speaking half of Cyprus were not allowed to land in either Northern Cyprus or Turkey, so their first leg was a buttock-clencher to Rhodes. The worst was the shortest - they checked out of their hotel in Albania, took off , then hit bad weather an hour over the Adriatic, and took the admirable decision to turn back, to the bemusement of the landlady who had seen them off earlier. Before you ask, they are both professional pilots by day -  he flies Airbuses, she all sorts of stuff, mainly in the executive jet category. A paradox maybe, but you can't hurry the fast way of getting round.

This evening it looks like they are currently airborne over Hudson Bay, en-route to the next stop, which I think is due to be Iqaluit. So 2 long over-water legs next (including a crossing of Greenland) assuming they night-stop at Iqaluit tonight.

I've also visited the Falklands, and on one of my trips back in 2000, I met some of the BAS guys at Stanley Airport, with their Dash 7 - a four-engined turboprop, for the unfamiliar, and a type that Brymon Airways used to once operate between Plymouth/Newquay and Heathrow back in the day.

They were on the final leg of ferrying it from maintenance in Canada to the British Base at Rothera in Antarctica for the southern "summer", and had spent about 8 hours airborne that day trying to get there - they'd left Stanley that morning and after several hours flying south into extreme headwinds had had to turn back as they might have run out of fuel before they reached their destination, or at the very least been left with few options for diversion had it become unavailable late into the flight - it seemed like an epic story to me, but to them was just part and parcel of operations in remote and unforgiving parts of the world!

By the way, you can track where the Skybus Twotter is here https://share.delorme.com/DouglasCochrane (https://share.delorme.com/DouglasCochrane)

This afternoon it looks as if G-ISSG is enroute between Greenland and Iceland at 12,000ft and with a groundspeed of around 200mph, which is quick for a Twotter and indicates that they must be picking up a decent tailwind.

The weather here in Reykjavik at 3pm GMT/UTC (1hr behind the UK) is clear and cold with a light northerly wind, and if the tracker is correct I would expect them to be on the island from their current position in maybe around 4 hours.

Update at 17.45 GMT - the Twotter has landed here in Reykjavik!

According to the METAR, that light northerly wind is 20 knots!

My daughter had fun landing in Falklands, in a Boeing 747 from Brize Norton via Ascension. The third approach, the pilot said he had a 50 knot crosswind, and if he didn't make it, they would divert to Montevideo. Her hopes of a night in Uruguay were dashed, as he landed it. Phenomenal!

I've been out all day, but as I stepped out of our apartment this morning at 1030 local time, G-ISSG was just getting airborne for the UK. I watched her climb out of the Reykjavik circuit and set course towards the south-east - the tracker shows she has made it to Prestwick (just south of Glasgow) and is nightstopping there.

From the  BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22294904)

"Make available one of their 18 to 19 seat helicopters available..."? Rental or sale, or just plain lending? The only Agusta Westland civvy helicopter of the size is the AW189 (http://www.agustawestland.com/product/aw189). None are yet in service, although Bristow Helicopters have ordered 11 for the private UK search and rescue service. It could be they will offer it to demonstrate it to a wider audience.

The tech data shows it to be a tasty bit of kit. It is Cat A capable - if one of the two engines fails on take-off, it can either safely get back down to the floor, or fly out, missing all obstacles by at least 35 feet. PC1 and PC2e are safety standards for offshore operations such as gas platforms. Unlike the current fixed wing aircraft, they are equipped for day or night in just about all weathers, whereas flights from both Lands End and Newquay were recently grounded by fog.

Be nice if it happens. It will need a new heliport, of course, which will open a whole new can of worms. But it is not insurmountable.

Andrew George has always been an MP who gets what he wants for his constituency, so I would expect this to be likely to happen now. He's been the MP since 1997, and always been a popular candidate.

Sounds a good man to have inside, then. This needs action as well as words. The economics of passenger transport by air are crazy, with ultra-expensive assets being used on minimal profit margins, but still someone gets rich.

FTN said:


That is probably about 4 times more true when it comes to commercial helicopter operations.

The old BIH service probably only survived as long as it did because the S61N's operated were around 40 years old and probably fully paid for many years ago. However, I expect they made up for that by being eye-wateringly expensive to maintain.

The most suitable type for any future Isles of Scilly heliops is probably the Sikorsky S92 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-92 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-92)

CHC operate these in the North Sea.

As an aside, FTN, my last trip in a BIH S61N was on one of my trips to the Falklands, where 2 were (and I think still are) operated under contract to the MoD.

Absolutely true, TC. The engines are replaced in all aircraft at planned intervals. The airframe of a modern aircraft doesn't look much different to an older one. It is said that if you lavished the care shown to commercial aircraft on your car, it would last for a thousand years. The big changes have come in materials used. BIH's S61N's date back, in two cases out of the 5 they owned, to 1964, when oil was cheap, and efficiency was not as huge a consideration as it is now. Now, the emphasis for any new aircraft is safety, with efficiency, hence the growing use of composite materials and fly-by-wire systems that weigh so much less than the former metal rods and hydraulics used for moving control surfaces.

The engines for the former S61N weigh around 400lb with reduction gearbox, develop a useful power output of 1250hp max at a fuel consumption of 0.64 lb/hp/hr. The engines in the AW189 weigh about the same, deliver a third more power, whilst using a third less fuel. So despite the price on the forecourt, the running costs are much lower.

How you can make money by using an aircraft costing $350 million (for a Boeing 747-800) to burn expensive oil to transport passengers long distances is beyond my powers of deduction. BIH were sunk, they say, because of the judicial review regarding the sale of the heliport, which delayed matters. It doesn't sound as though they would have held on much longer if cash-flow depended on selling the base, because passenger numbers had fallen in the recession.

I read somwhere, but can not substantiate, that passenger air travel overall has NEVER made a profit since it was invented !

Most large airports lose money on the strictly aviation side of the operation, the profits coming from retailing, car parking, and hotels.
Many smaller airports are routinely loss making, being subsidised by local or national government.

Many airlines are effectively state owned or state controlled or state subsidised, no banana republic is complete without a national airline.

Many other airlines are loss making and receive subsidies.
Many others have gone bust.
Others regularly lose money, and change hands cheaply, with the new owners hoping (usually in vain) that they will do better than the last lot.


The manufacture of aircraft tends to be subsisised "to protect high tech jobs" and also as a matter of national prestige.


Some airlines do sometimes make a profit, but overall the industry is said to be loss making.

Multi-billionaire Warren Buffet:

"If a capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk back in the early 1900s, he should have shot Orville Wright. He would have saved his progeny money. But seriously, the airline business has been extraordinary. It has eaten up capital over the past century like almost no other business because people seem to keep coming back to it and putting fresh money in.
I have an 800 number now that I call if I get the urge to buy an airline stock. I call at 2 in the morning and I say: 'My name is Warren, and I'm an aeroholic.' And then they talk me down."

Unknown:

"How do you make a million dollars in aviation? Start with two million and know when to quit!"

The ex BIH S61 is still out and about round these parts.  Going on flight paths, she is probably running out of Newquay Airport....

I have read elsewhere that two of them are stored at Newquay, pending decisions.

Bizarre things happen in aviation. When I first started learning to fly at Filton, in 2005, there was a Boeing 747 with 3 engines, and weights hanging from the mounting for the fourth, parked on the jet apron. I know it had been there a while, as I had seen it en passant. I think the livery said Southern Winds. After a few lessons, I asked my instructor how long it takes to change an engine on a jumbo - the true answer, I now know, is around 5 hours. "Oh no", he said. "The engine's been taken off to stop someone shinning over the fence in the dead of night, starting up, and buggering off." The airline had gone bust, and debt attaches to the aircraft. So anyone buying it would have to settle up before taking it away. He reckoned it would end up being dismantled on site. But one day, almost a year later, I arrived for my weekly flight, and it was gone. Someone had paid a bill, the maintenance guy stuck the engine back on, the pilot filed a flight plan for Shannon, and away it went. Amazing these things can happen, but they can and do.

Wouldn't a wheel clamp have been easier?

Presumably it wouldn't have been fueled either.

You would think just removing the batteries would stop anyone starting up the APU, let alone the main engines, but that is what I was told, and by more than one person working there. A wheel clamp probably wouldn't hold back 200,000 lbs of thrust, either.

From Wikipedia:  By 2004, Southern Winds was a leading commercial carrier in the troubled Argentine aviation industry. That September, however, airport police in Madrid discovered 60 kilograms (130 lb) of cocaine packed in four unaccompanied suitcases aboard an arriving Southern Winds flight. The resulting scandal cost the airline its government subsidy, and ultimately resulted in the carrier's collapse. The last Southern Winds flight operated on December 5, 2005, although proposals for the airline's revival continued to surface in 2006.

So there you have it children - proof that drugs do ruin airlines.

I have traced the aircraft's history from its construction in 1982. It flew first for Cathay Pacific, then between 1998 and 2001 for Virgin Atlantic. It was then seconded to Air Atlanta Icelandic, prior to a return to Virgin and a trip to Mojave for storage, in 2002. It was recommissioned and bought by European Aircharters in late 2003. They leased it to Garuda for 2 months in 2004, for Hajj flights to Mecca. After that, Southern Winds had their fun with it. It flew into Filton on 2 February 2005, for de-virginisation (yes, you can do that with a plane too) and transformation into Southern Winds colours by the then thriving Air Livery paint shop at Filton - picture link here. (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Southern-Winds/Boeing-747-267B/0784969/&sid=a3a44f2f99bf48266daa20b0a6099b37). This was after the pharmaceutical catastrophe alluded to by John R. The process normally takes less than 2 weeks for a 747. The airline collapsed whilst it was there, and it stood gathering dust and parking fees until 29 April 2006. It has the dubious distinction of wearing the livery of an airline for over 14 months, but never having made a flight for that company. Outdoor parking fees for a 747 at Filton, BTW, were not much more than those levied at Heathrow to park a car.

After its long period at Filton, it went to work for Transeuro under a Bermudan registration VP-BPX, based in Russia. The trail grows cold - some sources say it is now stored in Melbourne, others suggest that it was broken up at Kemble.

What I think I may have realised from my research is that few aircraft are owned by airlines - a situation not unlike Train Operating Companies leasing from the Big Three, only this is multinational. Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier, Embraer et al may announce orders from airlines, but the aircraft are sold to shadowy leasing companies, the names of none of whom are well known.

Who knows? If there is a runway extension project in the Scillies similar to that at Funchal, Madeira, we may yet see this particular 747 on finals to land in the Scillies. Probably preceded by a number of pigs, in formation.

Sorry - what were we talking about?

Drove past Penzance heliport today, all demolished, and they have raised up the ground by around 2 foot.

Lands end is to have 2 of its 4 run ways tarmacked by the end of the year.

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Resurfacing-work-place-Land-s-End-Airport/story-19672871-detail/story.html#axzz2c7jg1mzj


Local Radio has reported that their profits for the last year were at a record high, despite the 3 million they have invested in upgrades last year.

I am confused after reading the BBC online report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-23252556), which is at variance with the This is Cornwall report.


The TiC report mentions two runways being surfaced, but the BBC says a total of 800 metres of tarmac. A quick butcher's at the AIP (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-4B5C3229E0725EF8D303F494DB9FAEC8/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGHC_2-1_en_2013-04-04.pdf) shows that there are two main runways at Lands End. 07/25 is 695 metres long, 16/34 is 792 metres. If 800 metres in total is being done, that would suggest that only 16/34 is being done. 07/25 is more in line with the prevailing westerly winds, so maybe it is that runway that is being dealt with, with an extension. It would not be a good idea to part-tarmac a runway. They do exist, most notably 09/27 at St Marys, but the grass part would still be prone to waterlogging, so the object of the exercise would be defeated. It could be that the grass bit of St Marys is being done, plus 07/25 at Lands End. Twin Otters are very robust, but I wouldn't like to try a crosswind landing in some of Cornwall's winters. The shorter runway length would be more than compensated for by the better orientation.

I will look for details on the planning site - none exists so far, so it could be that an application has not been made yet.

The This is Cornwall news where the part stating 2 runways will be tarmacked is a quote from the chairman of IOS steamship company, whereas no source or interview mentioned within the BBC article.

I am assuming the chairman would be providing accurate information to an interview

edit - I Re-read the BBC article and it says 800m will be done in September, the TIC article says the 2 runways will be done before the end of the year. We're not comparing like for like.

Ah, makes sense!

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-28539704):

Four runways makes it sound like Boris Island, but we are talking 07/25 and 16/34 - strictly four runways over two stretches of tarmac*. I've checked the AIP chart for the aerodrome (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-4ACA79AC474EDA8C8C275C25D0582FF2/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGHC_2-1_en_2013-11-14.pdf), which has not yet been amended, and still shows all four eight runways as grass. It's also good news as grass fields are a bugger to spot from anywhere except directly overhead (and even then) unless they have big buildings around.

Good news though, esp. as Mrs FT,N! has announced an intention to make a tour of inspection of the Scillies.

(*My poetic licence is in the post)

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-29054831):

Would 2015 be around the time that Mr George might be looking to defeat his parliamentary seat?   Oops - it may sound like I'm being a bit cynical here, but in practise there is a certainly cyclicity in some forward looking, and in some speculative, developments.

No mention where the heliport would be in Penzance. Won't be cheap to build a new one.

Or are they going to use the Sainsbury's car park built over the old heliport?  :P

I was in Penzance last week (having not visited for around 15 months) and was amazed to be told by the guy in the Sainsburys filling station that the whole thing was built from scratch and opened in 6 months - it's a biggish store.

I also noticed that there is a windsock on the roof at the western end - but I presume not a strong enough roof for an S61 (or AW189) to land!

I imagine they may have had to retain some kind of Met. observation facility, as the heliport used to be an official Met Office Aviation reporting station.

Even in Summer, and especially with the weather as it was last week (wet, windy, low cloud, poor viz a lot of the time), I can only imagine that the Skybus fixed-wing operation must be haphazard at best.

The big helicopters were much more resilient to the variable west country weather!

This is, unless a cynical electioneering stunt, cause for optimism, although not much. It's a long way from the reported words of the MP who wants a helicopter service and the man who wants to sell a new helicopter to the first flight. There is no reason why it couldn't happen. A new heliport needs less space than an airport, and with only a couple of dozen pax per flight, it needs only a small terminal, a short runway, fuel, and fire services. And a windsock.

A windsock is a visual aid to the wind as it is at the moment of observation, and does not form part of the suite of instruments in a Met Office weather station. If there is a filling station at the supermarket, then the windsock may be there to assist the emergency services in the event of vapour leak. You will see four on the roof of the huge Morrison depot near North Petherton, probably for the same reason. The nearest Met Office  weather station is at RNAS Culdrose, with another at Camborne. There isn't one at Lands End airport, nor at Newquay airport.

The latter does provide aviation observations in the form of METARs (METeorological Aviation Reports) which are observations of the weather at the airfield. These are nothing to do with the MET Office, but observation of wind, visibility, temperature, pressure, and cloud, made by the man or woman in the tower. It may be this that was offered by the former heliport, but there wasn't a Met Office station there when it closed, so far as I can tell.

METARs are promulgated world-wide by the Aviation Weather Center, part of the US National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration.  Bigger airfields, and Newquay is amongst them, also issue TAFs, Terminal Area Forecasts. Military fields have their own forecaster on site, civilian airfields' forecasts are made by the Met Office in Exeter. They typically offer a 24 hour forecast in a fairly small area (5 mile radius of the aerodrome), updated 6-hourly. These are also collated by NOAA.

The current METAR and TAF for Newquay, for interest, reads:


showing that at EGHQ (Newquay) at 1820 UTC (1920 BST) on the 4th, the wind was 4 knots from 350 degrees. There is haze, and broken cloud at 800 feet, the horizontal visibilty being 4500 metres. The temperature is 17C, the dew point 15C (hence the haze and the low cloud), and the pressure adjusted to sea level is 1017 HectoPascals.

Between 1800 and 2100 UTC (1900 and 2200 BST) the wind will veer to become easterly, and strengthen to 7 knots, with broken cloud at 1200'. There will be temporary periods where visibility will improve to 6000 metres, and the cloud will lift slightly. But that bit has a probability of only 30%, so will be ignored mainly.

On the fixed wing front, fog or very low cloud will continue to thwart operations at Lands End, which has no instrument landing system. Newquay has, so can accept diversions in all but the worst of visibility. As the Scillies are so close, the standard procedure is to sit tight until the weather improves. Conditions can be checked locally by reference to the Aviator's Weather Forecasting Stone, which has a high degree of accuracy:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Weatherstone_zps876760bd.jpg)

To add. Transport infrastructure and multi-mode ticketing options to bring custom to the heliport. Just like what there used to be.

Could be done, should be done. I agree. Whether it will be done is an entirely different kettle of fish. Or whirlybird full of people.

I've long wanted to visit the Isles of Scilly and was actively looking at the rail/helicopter options back in the early part of this decade. Much more preferable to me, for novelty, than the Scillonian sailing or fixed wing flight.

I also looked for options, and hope to be able to do so again in the not-too-distant. Fun though the choo-choo-chop-chop combo may be, my own preferred method, highly unlikely though it now is,  would always be in the left-hand seat of a 4 seater aircraft, such as a PA-28. Whilst learning to fly, I planned it as a theoretical navigational exercise, starting from Filton. The route took us over Exmoor, around Plymouth, and across Cornwall. I built in a re-fuelling / brew stop at either Perranporth, Bodmin, or Lands End. If the last, I would spend a bit of time climbing after departure, for safety - at least FL060 before the mid-point of the crossing via the Scillies Corridor. Then a slow descent for an overhead join before one of my semi-controlled but somehow ultimately soft reconnections with the floor, preferably via runway 33.

Is that not a perfect marketing tagline? Quick FT,N! Trademark it!  :P ;) ;D

You'd think so, but not always - at least, not in the early 70s when I went to the Scillies. We started by objecting to the extra cost due to some of the party insisting on going by plane, but the day we came back the BA helicopters were grounded. I can't now remember who flew the little plane we were on (10 seats or less) from Newquay, or whether they really were the only fixed-wing operators at the time.

The day before we came back, we could afford to joke about the 50 shades of green that the Scillonian had given its passengers, when they disembarked. This was the old one - more draught than the current vessel, but no stabiliser - and famous for its roll. Then, as I say, we found BA were not running due to high winds. Our flight did: taking off was OK, the crossing quick, and the landing ... interesting. The pilot based his landing technique on the width of the St Mawgan runway, meaning that an oblique approach got the wind close to head-on, and the reduced airspeed that allowed something close to a zero-length landing roll.

It's only later, on reflection, that you wonder if it was such a good idea after all.

An old pilot's adage: 'Any landing that you walk away from was a good one.'  ;) :D ;D

Indeed. And an excellent landing is one that allows the aircraft to fly again.  ;D

It is a little disconcerting to be able to see the runway through the passenger windows on finals, but I'm betting that your pilot ran the aircraft straight down the middle of the runway after banging the nose around at the last minute.

The offset approach is generally favoured by bigger aircraft. For we four-seater single engine jockeys, the "wing down" method is preferred. You dip the wing into the wind, then apply opposite rudder, holding this sideslip position even through the flare. You need to estimate the headwind and crosswind components rather quickly, using the information supplied by the tower - as an example, if you were landing on runway 27 at Bristol, and you were told by the ATIS (Automated Traffic Information System* - a recording of the current state of play) "Wind is three one zero speed three zero knots", the wind is 40 degrees right of the runway direction. You would have a crosswind component of around 20 knots, and a headwind component of around 23 knots - out of my depth!

Airspeed is never reduced for landing, but with an approach speed of 70 knots for a PA28 and a 23 knot headwind, the relative ground speed is a mere 57 knots, which makes it feel like a Harrier  landing. The three most important things to monitor during finals to land are, in order of importance, 1) Airspeed 2) Airspeed and 3) Airspeed.

My first crosswind landing remains a memory. I turned from base leg to finals to land on 27 at Filton, at 1500 feet, and about 2 miles out. I lined up perfectly with the runway, then watched it slide gracefully to the right. After I had done it a few times, my instructor said he couldn't understand why my landings were closer to the centre line with a crosswind than without. I couldn't understand it either.

(* You can listen to the ATIS on frequency 126.025 MHz, callsign Bristol Information, or on 01275 475686. These are published contact information. Each update has an identification letter from Alpha to Zulu, and a pilot would call eg "Golf - Foxtrot Golf Whiskey Romeo, aerodrome in sight, DME 10 decimal 9 with information Quebec, request joining instructions Golf - Whiskey Romeo.")

Which reminds me that it's time for a dram. Sl^inte!

From Andrew Geroge, M.P, West Cornwall
http://www.andrewgeorge.org.uk/scillies-helicopter-step-closer/

Scillies Helicopter Service One Step Closer
 
 
Andrew and AgustaWestland Chairman Graham Cole before their meeting at Department for Transport
 
The effort to reinstate a helicopter service to the Scillies continues.  I recently led a delegation of senior executives from AgustaWestland and PricewaterhouseCoopers to meet Transport Minister, Baroness Kramer, to seek Government support for the reinstatement of the Scillies helicopter service.  It was agreed that, following the meeting, PricewaterhouseCoopers and AgustaWestland executives will meet with Department for Transport officials to go through the report to identify where there may be prospects for Government support within state aid rules.

This is encouraging.  The PwC report/business case is encouraging and confirms there is a viable business opportunity for the service, operating from a Penzance heliport.  It also confirms that a new heli-link will be a significant boost to the Islands^ and the Penzance economy.

I wonder which "Penzance Heliport" that is, as the old one in now a Sainsbury's Supermarket (I know a lot of people know that!)

I can't see Skybus/IoS Steamship being too keen on a helicopter op. from St Just (which they own, and have just spent quite a bit on) in direct competition with their fixed wing op. Anyway, St. Just is no good for someone arriving by train at PZ and wanting to travel on by air.

Newquay is an option, great if flying in from London, and wanting to xfer to IoS, but Skybus already make this possible, and Newquay is not very good for road/rail connectivity.

The ideal would be another heliport right next to the Penzance rail terminus and the A30, but in the past BiH could not make it work (and that was with an existing heliport and old helicopters that were probably written down years ago), so this seems like a venture for someone with very deep pockets.

If AgustaWestland are involved, I wonder which helicopter they are proposing? Assuming a civil version of the Merlin/EH101 is not likely to happen (it never has yet), the AW189 is their only other current model that might be suitable. The nearest replacement for the old S61's is the S92, but that of course is a Sikorsky!