Great Western Coffee Shop

From the Radio Times (http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/r6ftk/the-intercity-125-the-age-of-the-train):


From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01mqv43):


Bearing in mind current discussion here and elsewhere on the future of the HST, this should be an interesting watch. And of course, a reminder of how long in the tooth the HST is getting.

Many thanks for posting BNM. Now if only Aunty BEEB would release the new Android version of iPlayer that allows for off-line watching so that I could watch the program on the ....errrr...train!

Thanks for the heads up on that one.  Should be an interesting watch...

I was working in the CM&EE at Paddington when the HST's were introduced in 1976 - the last train, by the way, specified and designed by engineers before "business managers" (degrees in basket weaving etc) came in and came up with wonders such as Pacers (I remember being in the cab of a Pacer leaving Gunnislake, and having to motor down the 1 in 29 because of the flange/rail contact).

My particular job was to do with the trailer cars.  We had a whole host of initial problems including cracked axle boxes (at one time I think all axle boxes were being crack detected every night at OOC and other depots), toilet door locks which jammed locked and toilet blow-backs when entering tunnels (so going to the toilet on an early HST could be quite an experience), brush wear on the ventilation motors which caused the air-conditioning to fail, WSP malfunctions, etc etc. 

But still one of the best trains ever built to travel in, at least in First Class.

And if HST's are getting long in the tooth, I don't know what that says about me.  I'll try not to fall asleep in front of the telly, but it is on quite late......

You should worry, Gordon TBE - I've set it to record! Far too late for me. So please don't spoil the ending... really hope it's a happy one...)

I always remember the smell of the brakes in the early days.  Just occasionally you get it now if harsh breaking is involved but then it was every time.

A suitable punishment for anyone trying to 'eff' it by hiding in the toilets though!

A well deserved tribute to the train that saved long distance rail travel in the UK at a time when motoring was cheap, and roads experienced 50% less congestion.

Mind you, how I long for the original seat plan in Standard, with 2+2 and table aligned with every window, would save on First Class fares  ;) (maybe that's the point).

Looking back to the early days, I seem to remember passengers appreciating the buffet being in the same place on every train, unlike loco hauled with the inevitable buffet car ten coaches to the rear...

MK3s never had perfect window alignment. Originally all seats where at tables but the number of windows was designed for perfect alignment in First Class, but Standard Class had one more table per carriage than First Class, so alignment was always out. Stock before MK3s used to have more, smaller windows in Standard Class carriages to solve that problem.

"Originaly all seats were at tables"
And people wonder why I whinge so much about both existing and proposed new trains !

I used to travel up to Paddington from Didcot on 125's in the 1970s.  The comment above about the smell of the brakes has brought it all back... ;D

We used to know exactly where to stand on the platform to be close to the door of an arriving train.  The trouble was, so did everybody else!

As the train moved away from the station, the ride and acceleration were so smooth, you had to check out of the window to confirm you were moving - not something I had experienced before.

rgds
Rob

I was an "HSDT" apprentice when I started in 1975 and destined for OOC's brand new shed, did a couple of training blocks in there but ended up on ODM at Padd (thats whole different story  ::)  )

One of the tasks they gave us apprentices to do was go along all the coaches in a rake and measure the commutators on all the vent fan motors and record the results, most where definitely not round  ;D   The other problems were the batteries over charging.

The cracking axle boxes if I recall was part of the casting which supported the springs, also there were cracks in the brake disks on the power cars

Oh and the much loved tables kept falling apart, the screws fell out partly due the passengers pulling on the tables as they climbed in the seats around the arm rests

Oh and lets not forget the turbo chargers that kept failing and the amount of coolant and oil leaks on the engines

Basically the train by the standard it is today was a disaster but it was made to work

So does that mean there is yet hope for the Adelantes...?

There's a few signs of an upturn in their reliability over the past couple of weeks.  It seems more cancellations/Turbotutions have been caused by a lack of trained staff rather than faults with the units.  Now the Olympics/Paralympics are over proper training can resume.

Give them another 15 years and they should have all the wrinkles ironed out  ;D

Reliability has a lot to do with the maintenance teams learning and understanding which bits need more attention than others.

Now where is my copy of "2 miles a minute"by O S Nick?!

An interesting fact? I was told aout the HST was that HMRI (or predessesor) wouldn't allow EP brakes on the trailer cars just straight airbrakes, which wouldn't have been enough to stop from from 125 from existing signals. So the powercars were EP braked and thus each power car only have to brake 3/4 coaches so the brakes were much quicker acting than waitng for straight airbrakes to act on the down the train and to the rear power car.

Despite all the problems and the brake smell they are still one of the best trains of the post steam era. Pity as peolpe have posted they've become 737s, and they now don't get to Cardiff in under 2 hours The TOCs tha use them would be really stuck without them.
 

I used to travel down from Banbury to Weston S Mare on a Friday in the late 70's which involved a change at Reading. I do remember having the option of catching a diesel hauled loco which would have got me there 20 minutes earlier but I did enjy the HST journey - the the loco service seemed so slow in comparison!

There are eight windows per side in a BR Mk3 TSO. All seats in an original Mk3 Second Class TSO were not at tables. The original seating layout in Second Class had 72 seats. That was 8 airline seats either side of the centre partition and 16 bays of 4. Later BR layouts, carried over into privatisation, increased the (now) Standard Class seating to 76 seats. People were travelling less often as a group so the layout was changed to 10 bays of 4 and 36 airline seats.

Second Class TSO stock before Mk3 also didn't have more smaller windows. Like the Mk3 there were eight windows per side in a Mk2F Second Class TSO but the coach was 3 metres shorter. 16 bays of 4 with smaller vestibules. Earlier non air-conditioned Second Class Mk2s also had eight windows per side, some with a centre door.

Deliberately so, and to compare a 90 / 100 mph loco with 10 or 12 Mk2's with a 125 with 7 would not be fair

At one time a sample of every engine's lubricating oil was taken every night at OOC, and sent for analysis to BR's Scientific Services laboratory at Muswell Hill (North London, think of The Kinks). They could tell if there was a probem with the turbo, cylinder liners, piston rings etc.  Quite often they'd phone Control as soon as they'd done an analysis and order a Power car to be shut down before the turbo fell to bits etc.

As an aside, the truly best carriages ever built were Mark 2F's, which were designed after the Mark 3's, and had better air-con.

But bleddy noisy when braking though.

Tend to agree with you Gordon, although Mark 3 firsts were very good.

And they are still in use on the Wellington Commuter Services. I saw them in use in  February. Hillside workshops have done a superb job on them gauge conversion and power doors and a fantanstic inside refurb.



Edit note: Quote marks fixed. CfN.

The powercars are not EP braked. They use conventional air brakes the same as the trailer cars do.

The difference is that the brake handle in the cab does not directly control the air in the brake pipe as on say a class 57/6. The brake handle on a HST sends signals (by de-energising train wires) to the E70 / DWIA3 brake pipe pressure control unit at both ends of the train, thus lowering the brake pipe pressure and applying the brake in steps. Pressure can be reduced in the air train pipe from both ends but can only be increased by the brake pipe pressure control unit in the power car from which the train is being driven.

The Emergency position on the HST brake handle however vents the air brake pipe directly to atmosphere as does the emergency brake plunger next to the brake handle. This is provided to guard against electrical malfunctions or the failure of the brake handle itself.

They've lost something with the change from Paxman Valenta engines,  Yes we know they smoked and were noisy and not all that reliable but feel the noise...   :)

Fortunately for the saddos, searching "Valenta" on YouTube will find you plenty of deafening starts and full chats through Didcot.

A Saddo

I'm nights tonight but I have already set the HDD recorder up to record the program.

Thanks to the OP for the heads up.

The 'fix' for the toilet blow backs was to permanently lower the permissable speed through Alderton Tunnel from 125 mph to 110 mph in both directions. The speed through Chipping Sodbury tunnel being 120 mph instead of 125 mph. The problems were caused mainly when trains passed each other in the Tunnels, particularly the short Alderton tunnel.

Box & Middle Hill tunnels being built to Broad Gauge internal dimensions have greater internal volume and cause less of a problem.

Wasn't it the case that in the early days HSTs were not allowed through Box at maximum speed in case two passed and blew the windows in?  I was told that by a railwayman at the time but not sure if it was myth.

Myth, it may have been concerns with the doors not locking shut properly

There were problems with the toilets as The SprinterMeister has already mentioned also some problems with the ventilation system, these were fixed quite early on

A good and interesting program but more about the era of British Rail that the 125 came into being rather than actually about the train itself but that would probably only really interest a small minority of us.

 

What a nice programme that was.  I would have liked more about the HST itself but will not complain at all at the high profile it gave to Sir Peter Parker, a massive and positive figure in our railway history.

To all you youngsters (lol), things really were grim in the mid 70s and through to the late 80s. The IC125 was quite a beacon....

When the time comes for the last one to run in service, I'll bung ^50 in to the pot to return a train to blue and grey with Inter-City 125 on the power cars.  I hope the NRM will restore a full set to original condition (apart from the engines, which can stay modern!)  

The stated aim of the 125 Group (http://www.125group.org.uk/), who were 'thanked' on the BBC programme, "is to preserve an example of this fine train after the end of its working life." Their affiliate company, Valenta Diesels Ltd has already acquired a quantity of original engines and cooler groups. I've joined the 125 Group, doing my little bit to ensure one or more of these fine trains enter preservation.

I'd like to hear a Paxman Valenta (or rather it's massive turbo) scream again.

Restored to original internal condition would also be good, although I'm not sure about that lurid orange interior for the buffet car. Would give me a headache stood at the counter for more than a few minutes.

The full "Overture One Two Five" promotional film, as shown in cinemas in 1978/79, can be seen on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdJB3N9pK0k

From the British Film Institute:


 

Myth. Probably based on the known problem with the toilets at Alderton Tunnel. However there may have been an issue with bodyside main windows as well at Alderton, I'm not sure now.

HST's don't go through Box Tunnel at anything like 125 mph anyway unless they are right away through Chippenham on the Down line. The 100 mph line limit on the down line starts at Box end of Middle Hill Tunnel. So down HST's will be on the brakes around 3/4 of the way through Box Tunnel.

Like others I enjoyed the program enough to stay up and see it until the end (I'm not old, I just have to get up at 5am every day!)

It seemed strange to see a resturant car with the old "red stripe" rather than the yellow/gold of first class.

I was also interested to see about the APT whose fortunes I followed when it was under development (maybe I am old!). A close relative of mine who lives near the line going through Milton Keynes used to report seeing it undergoing testing - I believe I rememeber seeing it parked at the NRM in York but that was many years ago.

I do remember the HST power cars being unreliable in their early days...of course that would never happen with modern trains...<cough>180</cough>!

I had a lot of respect for Peter Parker, despite the way the Ray Buckton the ASLEF leader portrayed Peter Parker he had a very good connection with the grass roots staff, I recall he turned up on a night shift at OOC to be greeted by all the Regional, Divisional & Area managers he sent them packing saying if wanted to see them it would be between 9am to 5pm Mon to Fri and then walked off around the depot with the shift supervisors.

BR had been running modern 100mph stock for a quite a while before the 125 the Mk2c (forced ventilation) the Mk2d to f with air con had not caught the public imagination the 125 if it had been an engine and coaches would not have cached on the same it was the inspiration of the moder uniform look, the sleek advertising and above all the bravery of Peter Parker and the Board at the time to spend, money, the resource which was in the shortest of supply at the time.

I am not sure there was quite the rivalry at Derby the program made out, the HSDT and not the 'D' was seen as the stop gap to full electrification, on the BRB plan for electrification the GWML will be delivered 25 years late!

I agree with your comments about Peter Parker - at the time of course the country was gripped by the Unions so I think Ray Buckton's response was probably of the time. Before anyone flames me I had first hand experience of "working with the unions" at this time as I was working at an Aluminium plant in South Wales -those were interesting and challenging times :)

Yes, a very interesting programme, I almost felt proud (as I hope did ElectricTrain and others here) to have been associated with the introduction of HST's.  I remember that the then General Manager of the Western Region Leslie Lloyd (the last GM of the old sort) threw a party for some of those involved (+ wives etc) at Castle Bar BRSA, and we then had a special train from Castle Bar halt back to Reading afterwards!

Some of the film sequences reminded me of the catering on the trains as originally produced.  They had full kitchen cars (TRK?) as well as buffet cars (TSB?) - I think before mobile phones and laptops etc came along everyone was expected to eat and drink for the entire journey.

I was actually on an HST when the programme was on last night so haven't had a chance to watch it yet but reading this thread brings back all sorts of memories.

Remember in the days before widespread use of mobile phones there was a payphone in the buffet area?

Also how at first any set due to travel over, I think, 100mph had to have two crewmen up front.

..and the first HST on my train set which had lights which lit up in the direction of travel!

A good programme, but I did get annoyed by the fact that the facts about the APT were tailored to the story of 'HST good, APT bad'. The APT ran as a scheduled service in 1984, whereas it was implied it was quickly scrapped after the bad press of December 1981 (it wasn't mentioned that it was the coldest winter for many years, which impacted badly on the brakes). It probably could have been developed into BR's idea of a 'squadron' but the political will had gone. It also had the problem that 155mph running isn't much good if other trains ahead of you are only doing 110mph. Plus I'm sure the rivalry with the HST engineers existed, but the APT was entirely dependent on the government funding electrification across the country, something they've historically been very reluctant to do in case high speed trains can be powered by another source by the time electrification is complete (not yet and it doesn't look likely).

Anyway, a good programme other than the sniping at the APT.

The BR team that developed the APT set the ground rules for tilt trains it was advanced even for an advanced train due to its active tilt, the Pendelino it could be argued is a derivative of the APT but its tilt is not as advanced

It is on again this evening at 9.50 or 10.50 (I will check) on BBC four for anyone that missed it..

I should have checked before I posted.. 10.40pm.. BBC four tonight.. For those who missed it first and second time around like me (yep this is the third viewing)..Enjoy...

Evidence from a recent trip on a HST that they still go like the clappers:

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/ic126.jpg)

An Inter-City 126 between Bristol Parkway and Wootton Bassett Junction.  ;D

Just found these clips on youtube. Some footage of 43002 Top of the Pops making it's record breaking run from London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads on 30th August 1984. 62 minutes 33 seconds for the 117^ miles. Average speed just under 113mph:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZIhJnnyk4A The departure from Paddington.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM-Lw85CkN4 The arrival at Bristol Temple Meads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nh7p_2RMzg The naming of the train.

At the end of the first clip and the start of the second you might want to fast forward. Unless you like Tears For Fears and Bucks Fizz!

Simon Bates agrees with me. HSTs go like the clappers.  ;D

EDIT: There's this as well. Howard Jones performing (well, miming) on P3 at Temple Meads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HePvjFRlkHA

I was lucky enough to be on that trip and it certainly did go like the clappers right from the off. I understand the points at Paddington were specially secured to allow it to "launch out the blocks" like the proverbial bat out of a hot place.

I think it was the first time I had ever passed through Reading non stop.

Don't remember too much about the music at Bristol Temple Meads but I do recall the journey home was a bit slower!

I was a bit saddened by the absence of lots of engineering bits and pieces, but enjoyed it. Sir Peter Parker (I have a brother-in-law of the same name, who only managed a CBE) did a grand job, in the circumstances. IIRC, he annoyed managers, not just unions, by walking past the welcoming committees that formed wherever he went, to talk to the people actually doing the work. His biggest success was in seeing the Serpell report kicked into the  long grass in 1982. Had that not happened, we would have been looking at a much smaller rail network today.

I had forgotten completely that Prue Leith was a member of the BRB. Presumably, she was not hired for her engineering skills. I enjoy cooking, and her Cookery Bible is the first point of call for anything new. But is catering still done in-house on the railways?

An interesting programme, which was well worth a watch - though I agree with the comments on the APT being portrayed as the bad (hopeless) guy!


I travelled in a carriage today which had all seats at tables, except for 4 airline seats at the end and all of the seats aligned perfectly with the windows.  Can't have been a modern train surely?!  Well, it was Coach 'D' on a Virgin Trains Voyager!  All of their 221s have that carriage in their 5-car sets, so if you're obsessed with tables that's the place to head!

Mind you, at only 52 seats that's much less than the 64 or so seats you could fit in a similar space elsewhere within the train: http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/assets/pdf/global/seating-plan.pdf (http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/assets/pdf/global/seating-plan.pdf)

Looking at it's arrival into Temple Meads it came from the Filton direction, so would indeed have gone via Badminton.

Yes it did. I had never travelled that way before into Bristol.

on my bookshelf I think, if you mean the one by O.S Nock that is!

An interesting program, I wonder how many of the Voyagers (my most hated train) will last anywhere near as long?

Remember Top of the Pops got the local kids onto our garge roof to watch it go by Taplow.

But wasn't it only 4/5 coaches so no wonder it went like the clappers.

It was certainly short. Think it was five.

Looking at those video clips I linked to earlier in the thread, it was a 2+5. Approaching Temple Meads from Filton you can clearly see five carriages. In the introduction by DJ Richard Skinner he says there are three 1st Class and one 2nd Class carriages. The fifth carriage was a Buffet/Restaurant as can be seen when the train pulls out of Paddington. Despite the poor vision mixing you do just catch a glimpse of the red band along the cantrail of one carriage.

As an aside, if you turn up the volume on the second clip as the HST approaches Temple Meads you can hear Simon Bates berating the, I assume, kids around him, telling them to stand back from the edge. Obviously no 'Mic Live/On Air' light as he's used to in the radio studio.