Great Western Coffee Shop

Hello all, I found this site via a trail of links leading from today's BBC News article, via MoreTrainLessStrain. I'm another happy FGW customer who is so happy with their service that I've started a blog of my own to chart the escalating chaos on my commute from Chippenham to Bristol.

www.thirdratewestern.com

Come and have a look - you could be the first to make a comment!

You seem to be slagging the staff off rather a lot, when much of the chaos is not their fault.

Agreed, the staff are doing what they get paid to do.

If you want to have a go at someone, have a go at management. It's not the baseline staffs fault.

I agree it's not entirely the fault of the staff on the ground, but some of them are horribly unhelpful and do daft things like sending trains out when they know full well holding them for 30 seconds would allow passengers from another heavily delayed service to get to where they are going. But fair point, I might tidy up my ranting a little :)

Wouldnt you be annoyed if you had people going on at you constantly when its not your fault? I know i would be. This is why i quit my last job.

A tidy up is needed :P. If i was being ranted at daily by commuters i'd just go and quit, then watch fgw get into more of a mess... (i'm suprised quite a lot of staff havnt done this already)

Also iirc the despatch staff have no choice but to send them out on time? as even a slight delay can mess up any train service, e.g, points reset to let another train out so something like a 158 gets stuck behind a freight and messes up most of the service

As I understand it, its not the TM that controls whether a train can be held or not - but of the signallers.

And I would have thought if the signal is given and the TM said - I'll just hand about for a bit - there might be some grief to follow

My comment-TO**ER!

Can't beat a thorougly reasoned debate...

Welcome to blogging.  I look forward to reading what you have to say.  Please don't be put off by teh insults from others. 

 

Thank you Tim. I have taken on board the comments and had a bit of a clean up on my comments which did, to be fair, attack the FGW staff rather than the management who are obviously leading the ongoing charge towards bedlam.

This kind of discussion about the internal workings work (or don't) is something that I personally find very interesting - it is the reason I read this forum and I wouldn't want this comment to be construed as a discoragment of such discussion .  But I think that we all need to remember that the ordinary travelling public don't understand this or care about it nor should they have to.  FGW gets the blame for everything because it is their logo on the trains.  The staff get the complaints because they are there on the platform.  This is the way of the world and we can't change it.  If you can't stand the heat don't bid for the franchise or apply for a customer facing job.  As long as complaints are not threating or personal or agressive, I don't think that we can critise customers for having a go at staff.  If this leads to low staff morale and people quitting then the answer is for FGW to support their staff better.

It disapoints me when I read comments like "we can't go back to the old system of short platform working because once SDO has been used the grandfather rights are lost" Not because such comments are anything but true but because they reveal a lack of imagination.   The rules on grandfather rights are just that, human rules that can and sometimes should be changed.  As a customer I do not think that it is unreasonable for the company to whome I pay my fares to be motivated to change damaging rules, bang heads together at NR's underperformance and kick up a politial stink where necessary.   

You must remember that FGW chose the slogan "transforming travel", that they have trumpted their investment and promises of improvements from the rooftops.   They have in part fuelled rising expectations of their passengers as have higher fares.  When things are not better - when you can no longer buy your ticket on the train but have to arrive earlier and use the barriers, when you can no longer get a seat, when you pay twice what you did for the same journey 10 years ago despite an extra 10 minutes padding being added to the timetable and the buffet car removed. - the ordinary passenger is entitled to blame FGW even if not all the problems are their fault. 

Just look at the explanations for the failures that you see on this forum.  problems are blamed on the "national shortage of stock", the franchising system, performance targets and H&S.  All of the excuses are human inventions that can be changed if there is the will to do so.   Customers very rarely complain about problems which are truely insurmountable.  You never get complaints that there isn't a Weston SM to Lahor train.

I would make teh follwoing comments to FGW staff.

1, To the people on the ground - Remember that the customer is always right.  even when they are wrong.  They are paying their fare and you are paid a wage to make their journey as good as possible and to listen to any complaints and to pass them up teh management chain.  That is the deal allparties signed up to.  Your efforts are appreciated by many people - thank you. 

2, To the people in their offices - just think what Brunel would have done.  He would have made things happen rather than spending his time compiling delay statistics or tinkering with seat layouts.  GWR regauged the whole of the mainline in a single weekend's engineering work, you have been running rail replacement buses in the evenings from Swindon to BAth for 5 years with no end in sight.  You need to aim much much higher.  FG is about to be listed on the FTSE100.  You work for a big powerful company that would really deliver for both passengers and shareholders if you aimed to do things differently.  If NR are not up to stratch then why aren't you lobbying to take over the tracks?  If you are installing ticket gates then why are you still allowing your suppliers to sell tickets on a website with your trademark on it which don't fit through the new gates and blaming decisions made by BR 15 years ago for this?

I have absolutely no respect for FGW as a company and will continue to view any "knocking shop" website as less than they deserve until they start living up to their slogan "transforming travel"

Should have made myself known, I work for FGW and regularly get abuse from passengers who think that it's "my fault" that the trains overcrowded and have even been assaulted by the same idiots, as for Tim's comments about "the customer is always right", well someone who refuses to pay their fare in a fare strike is not a customer because they have not paid for the service which they are using, when I applied for my "customer facing job" I worked for Wessex Trains and I DID NOT GET A CHOICE IN FG WINNING THE FRANCHISE OR THE ASSOSCIATED COCK UPS! Most staff totally agree with most passengers and whatever the circumstances WE DO NOT DESERVE TO BE CALLED DI*KS or any of the other names used in minimans blog, And for all of FGW failings they have always backed me whenever a passenger has been abusive. There are numerous members of staff off sick at the moment because of stress which has been induced by aggressive passengers which in turn has meant that turns can't be covered and trains cancelled. At the end of the day FGW aren't great but a lot is down to NR and the DFT and what can FGW really do about it? I'm sure if there was anything they could do then they would because I bet they don't like the cancellations, short formations and engineering overruns any more than we or you do!

Everyone, just think for a moment:

When your on a full and standing train - do you think the staff like it either?
When you miss your connection - do you think the staff had a say?
When your train is cancelled - do you think the station staff had a say?
When you encounter friendly staff - do you ever compliment FGW on the blogs?

Answer to all these is:


NO

I work in retail, (BWS manager) and believe me that "customer is always right" is a f*****g joke.

because they think they're always right, if we say they're not, they get all uptight. I've even been assaulted (physically, not verbally) by a customer who thought they were right no matter what...

Staff get abuse, and therefore quit and go elsewhere. close to 90% of the staff at my old store quit when they just started getting constantly abused by customers  during a refit.

As a result, in my eyes and the people i work with eyes, the customer is Wrong, until they can prove they're right.

You will find examples of compliments for FGW staff on this forum.

Yep, but not that many other places!

I totally agree with you lee, I think Jim was referring to some of the blogs out there.

The customer is always right. Hmmmmm.......

You probably know that i work for FGW, and this happened to me last week. I booked on for duty, and went to work my first train of the day, not knowing that the previous service had been cancelled half an hour earlier. I didn't know this as i don't switch my pager on until i start work. In rolled a 142 which was then failed by the driver. After about 20 mins a 150 was found to run the service, so there were now passengers waiting for nearly an hour on unmanned stations with no information.
Part of my job is to check tickets, and when i did so the first charmer i met said "Where the f*** have you been you c***?", at which point I found out that  the previous service had been cancelled, after suffering another bout of verbal abuse. The next chap I saw didn't have a ticket, and when i asked him to buy one, his reply was " F*** you, you w****r, I'm a f***ing hour late for work because of you"

I totally understand the frustration when a train is cancelled or delayed, but no one should have to put up with this type of abuse when doing their job, especially as this was the first train of a 10 hour shift.

Anyway, 'the customer is always right'. Well i don't think I'm a c**t, but as for a w****r? Who knows! ;D

I regularly get called the C word, I can't be one of them as they're usefull!  :D :D

I am not defending foul-mouthed abuse and anyone who calls you a W***** or c*** ought to be prosecuted.  However my point that the customer is always right still stands.

The customer is having a problem with his journey due to whatever (weather, NR, FGW, fatality whatever it does not matter).  The moment you start work their problem is your problem.  That is what you are paid for.  The passenger has paid his fare to have the problem of "how do I get to X" taken on by someone else.

BTW - I have complemented staff on this forum and elsewhere.  After one horendous journey from Brighton to Bath I encountered a train manager who was less than helpful - either ill-informed or dishonest (told us there was a bus waiting for us at Westbury when there wasn't just to get us off the train), a chap at Westbury information window who was trying to help but was inexperienced and unsupported and basically out of his depth. and a Guard from another train who was extremely practical and helpful in explaining the cock-up and actually starting to do someing about getting folks home in taxis.   My letter to FGW customer services mentioned all three staff. 

The chap who went above and beyond the call of duty and stayed on after his shift ended to assist did so on his own initiative (I suspect he was also stranded at Westbury, but he could have hidden in a staff room).  The other staff wheren't evil people.  The information window lad was just poorly trained and inexperienced (I am sure he would have done better if he had had the number of the control centre to phone) and I suspect that the TM was just fed up and demotivated.  Both the staff failings were contributed to by bad (or non-existent) managers.

I don't think anyone is disputing what your saing (above), my problem is the belittling of staff in the blog, also, a guard is not just paid to direct customers, the guards primary role is the safe operation of the train, everything else (including customer service) comes after that.

My vitriol was, of course, aimed at the FGW management, and I totally agree that the staff can't control the bizarre decisions that seem to get made by FGW. As I said, I've removed some of my more colourful terminology!

Point taken from all  posts.......BUT i do think some of the FGW forums ( not this one i might add ) tend to provoke people into having a go and prehaps expecting a perfect experience when quite clearly its not going to happen ,reasoned debate is fine as are differences of opinion but if people are going to have strong opinions clearly they need to be fully aware of ALL of the Facts before posting..... back to having a go at staff... if you drive into Bristol on a weekday and want a clear run home only to be stuck at Brislington due to roadworks etc do you wind your window down and shout abuse at the bloke digging the hole?? or if you are stuck at traffic lights on the A37 do you ring up Bristol City Council and give the receptionist some verbals?? NO so why then have a go at someone on the Railway who is only doing his job....and if that was me the bone head who had called me a F**** C*** would have been off at the next stop!!!

I have said it before .... although perhaps not enough. The large majority of the operational staff at First Great Western (and at National Rail and elsewhere too)  do an excellent job in very difficult circumstances.    Jim - I'm one of the bloggers, and I posted up a "top marks to" message at ten past nine on Sunday evening.  But sometimes the positive can get rather swamped by some of the "events" that seem to make every journey into an adventure, and compliments can be quickly forgotten.

The last 24 hours ... I've had a customer of mine from Melksham routed on an 18:45 departure from Chippenham via Bath (change) and Westbury (change) to Southampton .. when there was a direct train at 19:01.   And then this morning a "will it / won't it" connect worry off the belated 06:43 train. Neither the fault of operational staff - but both the sort of thing to put the person who's not "in the know" off using the service next time.

I recognise many of the staff by sight .... but don't know them by name; I would certainly call many of them my friends, and we're all on the same "side" of wanting to get appropriate services running.  Sometimes they have hard decisions to make, and one man's medicine can be another's poison.

"Joe Public" (who is actually a member here - can I speak for you, Joe?) doesn't really care if he's late for work because of a failure to invest in track or train repair, a "fatality", or some more immediate an local cause, nor does he understand which it is.  Heck - he's not a railway expert and it shouldn't matter to him.  But the staff he sees represent the train service providers and he sees them, as he should, as his first point of immediate contact with the company.  It's part of their job to represent their employer.  Joe should not, however, be anything but polite, and sometimes he does let his temper get the better of him ... and he does assume he knows more than he really does.   Always right?  No - but usually so, and should always be listened to.   I could go on for hours - I too am in the customer facing (hotel and training) business. 

Problem where the Railway differs from other sorts of transport is the Fact it is a safety critical environment ...if you are on a train and a signal fault or prehaps a Fatality occours you aint goin anywhere untill the safety systems/ protocols are gone through.
Weigh this up against if you are in your car and the traffic lights go wrong or there is a serious accident you can always turn round and take the 10 mile senic detour.
Also if something does happen on the Railway it puts trains and staff in the wrong place and more delays occour. like you say joe public doesnt know or care but really he should have an understanding because the Railway is totally dependant on everything happening how it should

I disagree too.. Only this morning, on here,  I praised the member of FGW staff who was giving us lots and lots of really useful information over the loud speaker system yesterday morning at Maidenhead, while we slowly froze for half hour on a platform devoid of trains.. I have also e-mailed the same to FGW (admittedly on an e-mail complaining about freezing for half hour!!)..

Many thanks  :)

I would have thrown him off, unfortunately he was getting off there anyway, so he stole my thunder. Perhaps saved me another tirade though!

one thing that really narks about the people that start start this types of blogs along with some of the posters on this forum is:-

THEY ARE A LOAD OF JUMPED UP TORIES WHO MOSTLY ARE TO BLAME FOR THE BOTCHED UP PRIVATASTION OF THE RAILWAY SO REALLY HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN NOW ABOUT THE DIRE SITUATION WE ARE IN. ALSO DON'T THINK YOU LABOUR NUMBTIES ARE ANY BETTER BECAUSE TO BE QUITE FRANK THAT LOT HAVE MADE IT WORSE


Its no wonder the French and German unions are fighting the privatisation of their railways when they now look and see what is happening over here.


On lighter not though I like to look at these blogs and other forums after a taxing time at work (as a driver I too get my far share of the titheads giving me abuse) to come home and read them so that I can have a great big belly laugh as I come to concuclsion that these people lead such sad lives that they have to put up postings on blogs and forums, not concerning the likes of the envorioment, world security or the state of the encomany but to slag of a train company. It's clear to me that these people have far to much time on their hands!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(


Graham (moderating) writes ...

Hey - verging on the personal attack here!  Please remember that your agreement when joining this forum is NOT to personally attack people (such as that blogger) even if you think he's ripe for it. And quite apart from anything else, you'll find that reasoned argument is a much more powerful approach.

Actually you have a darned good case against both political sides - but you have weaked it in my view by the red shouting!

To be honest - whatever was going to happen, the railways were going to be re-privatised, and I suspect that we're actually seeing the beginning currently of renationalisation (seems a bit off doesn't it). My reasoning for that is that while the DfT are controlling every franchise, every franchise that goes tits up is going under management contracts which essentially gives DfT revenue.

Additionally the HST2 will be owned by DfT last time I heard so that certainl is a sign......

That is a fair point. But I work in retail and the thing you always have to remember is that you are wearing that uniform with the FGW logo on it. Therefore YOU are a representitive of FGW (like it or not). Until the managers and directors of FGW show their faces at stations to actually check in with reallity and see what its like then unfortunatly passengers are goin to take out frustrations with the hard working platform staff. I try not to myself but its very hard as you just cant get in touch with anyone in charge.

P.s i do not agree with people verbally of physicaly assulting anyone.

Defo- they are reducing the number of TOCs in the UK. Soon we will have a similar situation to: LMSR, LNER, GWR, SR etc!

And then:- nationalisation.

i agree with this post i too worked for wessex and had no choice in becoming fgw,all the problems with fgw are not the fault of the frontline staff it is the fools they have in swindon.it disgusts me that the passengers abuse and blame us for the failings of the company,we do not cock up diagrammes and send trains up north do we?
so to read blogs by people like miniman slagging of the train crew really winds me up,try thinking about it miniman we are just a number and try to do the best we can with the garbage the company supply us with.
miniman after reading your rant sorry blog about staff i would have no hesitation in chucking you off my train if i were to recognise you from points west,then maybe you could have just cause to slag off the staff.
in future aim your ranting at management.

thats it my rant is over

Yep, Swindon - Control/Resources: A lot of people who don't know anything about the railway! Not all - but quite a lot.

Only just seen this  :)

Jeez, how many times do I have to say: my ranting is ALL AIMED AT THE MANAGEMENT! If you read my blog and posts on here, or if you watched Points West, you'd know that I actually said to the film crew that the service has been much better since the new year. I didn't slag off the staff at all. However I also maintain that not all the FGW frontline staff are angels! I make no bones, for example, about saying that the staff checking tickets on the bridge at CPM are rude, unprofessional and unhelpful.

could possibly be agency staff, as they are(or were) at Exeter Central

If I am honest, the only staff I have ever really wanted to have a go at in the past 3 years are 1 Westbury Guard and 1 or 2 Bath/Chippenham revenue bods.

I think though, Bristol has the friendliest bunch of Revenue bods on Gateline around.