Great Western Coffee Shop

Noticed when topping up my Oyster card at the weekend that the common stock ticket design has changed somewhat, which is confirmed by a look at the internal pages of the National Fares Manual.

Old:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8525/8633143118_d17b5e8180.jpg)

New:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8397/8632034657_44a4cdb9cc.jpg)

The logo in the bottom left-hand corner is now in a circle, and the lime-green security background reads "National Rail" rather than "Rail Settlement Plan". Although the more recent ticket has the back face covered with an advertisement, it would appear from the NFM that tickets without advertising will bear a special box for staff endorsements.

These tickets are form number RSP 9399 as used in Scheidt and Bachmann TVMs, but the same changes are due to be applied to all the common stock tickets, including RSP 9599 as used in most ticket offices: it appears that this will happen progressively (with the older designs remaining in circulation until further notice, whilst supplies are exhausted) and begun in late February.

Anyone else spotted these tickets yet?

The S & B machines at Barnstaple were still using the old stock last week but I have seen the new version somewhere.  Just gone through a load of my tickets and I can't find it now!!

Noticed this new design on the ticket stock blanks a few weeks ago. I believe ATOC are also looking at other changes that will encompass the information printed on the ticket.

One test layout has escaped into the public domain. Not the clearest quality image, but it does show what could be printed on common stock with an industry wide software change:

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/img007_zpse6655489.jpg)

Not sure I like the look of the BR logo put in a circle on the ticket.

That's just a little thing though, pleased to see the Advance showing the trains it is valid on, seperate reservation cards no longer mandatory I would hope. I do think the current 'Advance' tickets should be renamed 'Tethered' though, as somebody on this fourm (grahame if I remember correctly) has suggested in the past. Not sure the symbol that denotes a child/discounted ticket is necessary, unless it exists so ticket inspectors can check more quickly?

To be fair it's been the National Rail logo for a few years now... see NR website, blue NR ticket holders etc.

Remember that's just a possibility that was being mulled over at ATOC (one of several, no doubt, but this one got leaked). This doesn't mean that the layout of the printed ticket will be changing to that one necessarily.

I know they already have it on the website, railcard wallets etc., I just think it looks a bit odd on the ticket like that.

Not sure if this has been commented on since a very old thread two years ago but it looks as though your train tickets are about to get a redesign according to this July 2013 ATOC leaflet.
http://www.atoc.org/download/clientfiles/files/Your%20ticket%20to%20travel.pdf

The very old thread I was refering to is http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9200.0

I've taken the liberty to merge lhrdave's post (above) with this old thread where a draft version of the ticket design was leaked.  It would appear many features of the prototype are now featured in the ATOC leaflet.

There are a few issues I have: the ticket has no STD or 1ST marker in large writing and the "Advance Single" could easily be changed into "Advance Single 1st", especially if staff don't look further down to ticket.  Also there is no asterisk after the station name, possibly because the examples are longer - this would need to be fixed to prevent the Barry / Barry Links "issue".

Introduction
Some of you may be aware that work has been taking place to update design of the ordinary rail ticket to allow information to be shown in a more customer-friendly way. The new design will be rolled out initially to TVMs during 2014, with other ticket issuing systems to follow.
What is happening from 10 March 2014?
TVMs at two locations on the Northern network will be issuing tickets in this new format as part of the test process prior to full roll-out. These machines will be selling valid tickets to customers, and the purpose of this brief is to alert you that you may be presented with these tickets in the course of your duties.
What do these tickets look like?
The attached sheet illustrates examples of tickets in the new format. Unlike the current design, completely different layouts will be used for ^walk-up^ tickets and ^advance^ tickets. In the case of ^advance^, these will now include the reservations information on the ticket itself. Where the booked journey involves more than 2 legs, the reservations will be printed on a separate coupon (in an updated layout). The machines on test will issue the new style designs in the case of passengers buying their ticket from these machines, and in due course will also do so where passengers are collecting tickets bought online.
Where might I see these tickets?
In common with most ticket machines, the TVMs on test are able to issue tickets valid anywhere on the National Rail network, and for travel by any operator. Therefore please note that it is possible that anyone involved in ticket inspection duties may be presented with a ticket issued to the new designs.


(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1.0-9/1001576_10202744551187447_333509097_n.jpg)

What are peoples views on this new ticket??

Well it will stop those who try it on with Advance tickets who 'forget' or 'didn't know' they needed to bring the reservation part of their Advance ticket.

Seems reasonable and gives all of the information necessary and if it save the TVM spewing out umpteen bits of card for a simple return journey then it gets my vote.


The vast majority of my train journeys use Advance tickets with reservations and only once (on 3rd January 2008, I remember it well!) have I ever been asked to produce evidence of my reservation. That one time, my reserved seat (at a table) had been occupied by an elderly lady travelling with her daughter and her 2 granddaughters (so I found out). I simply found the nearest unreserved empty seat and took that one without a fuss. When the Train Manager checked my ticket, he promptly told me I was in the wrong seat and should be travelling in my reserved seat. He then went to the lady sat in 'my' seat and asked her to move. Absolutely no need to do, but I guess he wanted to exercise his powers!

The print size on the advance ticket is quite small.  Not so good for us "oldies" >:(

<Pedant Post>

The seat reservations are wrong... Advance 1ST Class in Coach C?? Errr No!

Coach B might be correct if the set was a HST. But it's rare for XC HST to go west of Plymouth ::)

</Pedant Post>

Your quote marks imply that you don't think it possible that passengers could make such a mistake. That's the attitude I like least about the rail industry, and the one that often makes me paranoid and stressed when I travel in case I've failed to spot an esoteric rule that may make sense to staff but is less obvious to a punter.

Combining everything into one ticket just makes sense; it's fail-safe.

Pretty much yes. Why would you separate the ticket from the reservation ticket after you've picked them up from the station or had them delivered by post?
Exactly and that is why it's a good move by the rail industry.

I have every sympathy with those who make a genuine mistake when travelling on Advance or off peak tickets and are on the wrong train. What I am fed up with is those who are blatantly trying it on and more often than not get away with it.

Because you didn't know it was important. Why would you fail to take the credit card receipt portion with you? As it happens, that bit isn't important - but it looks pretty similar to the other bits of cardboard, especially to a layman.


But how do you judge? They could be trying it on every bit as much as the folk without their reservation ticket.

Must be for a summer Saturday as the only time a XC HST comes to Cornwall.......

The date shown is a Saturday in April though, so not quite a summer Saturday.

I've just merged a few threads here for continuity.

A member at RailUK has posted an actual scan of the new ticket from Northern's new TVMs: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1752329&postcount=184 (You will need to be registered and logged in at RailUK to see the attachment)

The first two tickets (in new design), look IMO awful.  The date is very difficult to read and the overlapping text just a poor bit of work.  However, I like the extra text rather than abbreviations of everything plus the URL to an actual restriction text.  I also wonder how the circle, diamond and smaller text (e.g. the price) will look in machines with faulty printers (of which there are many).

I like the font on the old-style tickets from the new machines.  Definitely much easier to read.

For the sake of the ones who dont want to register on yet another site, can you nick the picture and chuck it up on here?

No: that would be inappropriate.  :-X

Page four in the 'Your ticket to travel' leaflet shows a pretty good representation of the ticket print quality based on the ones that I've personally seen. Came as a bit of a shock when I first saw them as they were initially only from TVMs at a couple of obscure Northern stations. I think now anything purchased online and collected from a Northern TVM is of this design.

http://www.atoc.org/latest-publications/ (http://www.atoc.org/latest-publications/)

And now another version of CST is doing the rounds. One correct and one incorrect.

I don't think they are an agreed new national style. 

They seem to be some other TOC's tweak of the previous style to add the space for the Aztec code (a bit like a QR code but not quite) - but I think the new designs in ATOCs leaflet are still the eventual intention.

Paul

They would have to be an agreed style otherwise RSP/ATOC wouldn't let them use that design.

I collected a ticket for a Great Northern service yesterday at London Victoria (queue avoiding) Gatwick Express machines and noticed the "status code" for my railcard discount was printed as "16-25" instead of "Y-P".  Only some six years after the name changed... ::)

Also saw a ticket with a QR code (similar to SDS's post above) discarded near Cambridge station.  Does anyone know which TOCs are issuing these and if any TOCs are actually using the QR code for any reason?

I saw a ticket with "EASIT" in the discount area - where the railcard type is printed - anyone seen this? What is it?

http://www.easit.org.uk/rail.php

they are a green transport initiative I believe.

East Coast (at Doncaster certainly, less sure about other stations) have been issuing tickets with QR Codes for many months now. Don't know if they are used for anything in particular. Most of my journeys involve visual checks by guards (EM trains and XC) or none at all on East Coast. Barriers at Derby and Leeds swallow them without choking too!

I think the barcodes are issued by EC for all destinations. Ive seen them all the way down here in Wales.

East Coast is the only place I've seen these Aztec Codes, (not actually QR codes) in use so far. 

Wikipedia reckons Heathrow Express use them as well, as do a number of mainland Europe operators.

Paul

I've seen them when travelling on HEX on "Print-at-home" tickets and they are scanned when checked.

I also saw this format on a colleagues first capital connect ticket issued at kings cross

Print@Home tickets have the Aztec Code on them, this includes the First Group Staff ^5 ^6 Day Tickets.

The PAD-OXF ^4.40 Advance singles tend to be print@home jobbies and these contain Aztec codes.

HC and HX use Aztec codes and actually have scanners to scan them.
EC use them and the guards have an extra device to carry around which scans the code.

I also understand that some Foreign undertakings also use them on printed tickets, DB, SNCF and NMBS.

For someone who doesn't work for FGW, you seem to know quite a lot about internal communications and policies...

Fair comment.

Or, Fare comment, perhaps?  ;D

proposed design is an improvement, but if I was in charge, I would pass a law stating that all restrictions that were too complicated to actually be printed on the ticket itself would be unenforceable.

The Daily Mail has published an article about the redesign.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2934200/Rail-tickets-redesigned-time-30-years-bid-make-travel-simpler-easier-clearer.html

Saw one of the new layout tickets yesterday that hadn't been issued by the new Northern machines.  It was a London Terminals to Cambridge return (still comes as two coupons), not sure where it was issued but will have been in London.  The font was the traditional font (rather than the new one used by Northern or in the ATOC press releases).  Station names now appear in normal case rather than entirely in upper case.  Everything looked much neater than Northern's attempts.

Most of the Northern machines are now issuing in the fonts and letter case you describe following feedback from the initial trial, though in my opinion some of the lettering is still too small.

Got a ticket from TVM at an unmanned station the other day and the machine still gave me an extra piece of card to say... what? That I had bought a ticket, I suppose. But what is the point of this extra non-ticket? Is it to function as a receipt and if so is it required by law? If not, it seems a bit of a waste.

Also, as the TVMs do not take cash ^ which seems a sensible move on the whole ^ what effect does this have on the legality of the posters warning that you must have a valid ticket before boarding the train, which are prominently displayed at most stations with TVMs?

Assuming there is also no open ticket office, then you can definitely buy on the train with cash if a TVM doesn't take cash. 

What you cannot do is get on the train and ask to pay by card, as you have passed an opportunity to pay.

Paul

I know the issue of buying a ticket on the train has been covered many times but saying there is a TVM present doesn't always mean it works as required.

I can only speak from experience of using the TVM at Thatcham but after some nights when the screen gets cold/damp they just don't respond to human touch making them unusable especially if you have to type in details such as a station name and/or travel card number

I picked up some tickets today which more or less are using the layout BNM posted earlier in this thread http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12268.msg130412#msg130412

I can't say I like it that much, when lower case font is used it is not proportionate and very small in places; there is a lot of blank unused real estate as a result.

I also don't like "Valid for one journey from X to Y" at the top. I've had a hard enough time explaining to my friends that break of journey is permitted on most "normal" tickets and IMO this implies that benefit has been removed.

Maybe they'll work better for advances (these tickets were Off-Peak Day Returns).

To me, that reads as though you can't use the ticket for more than one (ie no repeat) journey.

Some, but not all, of the machines in South Devon are now printing new style tickets.

Was this the style you got Fourbee?

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/newtik.jpg)

Yep, it's the same format as yours bobm.

I've not yet purchased a ticket from a booking office, but assume it will be printed in the same format.

As an aside I used to quite like the smell of the old APTIS stock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APTIS_ticket_features, the more recent incarnations don't smell of much.

Probably should have kept that to myself!

I don't think sniffing tickets is covered by railway byelaws so you should be all right!

Spliffing tickets, however, could get you into trouble. :P

The new style of ticket has been issued by the TVM at Digby & Sowton for several weeks (at least); one thing I particularly like is the printing of any specific seat reservation information on the same piece of card.

I wonder how many people will look at it, think it's their receipt and discard it without looking at the other tickets / receipts printed.

If the plan was to incorporate reservation information onto the one ticket then it seems not to have happened - at least not for "voluntary" reservations.

I have a new style ticket for Swindon to Westbury and decided to reserve a seat and that has been printed on a separate card.  Perhaps only Advance tickets have the information all on the one ticket - although why my reservation couldn't have been treated the same way I am not sure.

It could come with the next software upgrade, Bob.

I'm disappointed as to how s-l-o-w-l-y things seem to happen on the ticketing front.  Or perhaps I'm just impatient.  New ticket vending machines were placed in Melksham in March, and in Trowbridge a few weeks ago now.  The simplistic part of me assumed that once they were in place, they would be able to deliver and sell tickets within a short timescale, but this hasn't happened ... and no-one I've asked has got back to me with an answer to "when ..."

Looks like you're stuck with a sheaf of tickets for a while yet!!

Every guard/TM I have spoken to does not like it!

One poor soul on SWT had to don his glasses to read it.

That is a sentiment I have overheard in passing at a ticket barrier. A passenger had used the wrong part of his return in the barrier and complained that the words were too small to read - staff member replied that a lot of people had been saying that.

Ticket 1) New Ticket Design issued by Frome TVM

Ticket 2) Ticket issued by an Avantix

Ticket 3) Issued at a Ticket Office

(http://i.imgur.com/caEaEdc.jpg)

I don't like the new layout either. A TM nearly said it was a Standard Class ticket until doing a double take on the passenger presenting the ticket and the price of the ticket (having himself sold it several times before) and off the record responded "What a bluddy awful design..."

Quick question. Are you allowed to travel via Westbury on the above ticket?

Nope. Weekdays 7 Frome bound services and 5 Taunton bound services. Change at Castle Cary (a couple of advertised connections around 90 minutes wait at CLC!) except the 1522 from Taunton which is direct. Pretty poor service between two towns in the same county.

Technically no, but local acceptance is in place. Having used the ticket via Westbury on the 15:55 to connect with the 16:23 for Penzance countless times in the last 10 years. I've also used the ticket via Bristol in the same time frame without issue. Only one action where the Guard on a SWT service initially had reservations but then accepted it when he saw Any Permitted printed on the ticket.

I think that is because it is considered as BNM points out, the service between Frome and Taunton is poor considering the distance and the 2 towns being in the same county. I can name several additional journeys possible via Bristol and via Westbury.

It pains me to say this. But this is probably one of the rare examples where common sense prevails and for that I am thankful.

In the Trout's photos above, 2 and 3 do look far clearer to me than 1. Nothing to choose between those two.

The only real different between tickets 2 and 3 (apart from 3 being slightly bolder text gained by using a fixed printer rather than a portable battery powered one) is the restriction code information.

If you look carefully at ticket 3 to the right of "Validity" it will show a restriction code. In this case W4. You can then go to http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/W4 (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/W4) for details of these usage restrictions.

Ticket 2 doesn't have this and just says "See restrictions" which isn't at all that helpful.

Ticket 3 the railcard codes are bigger font size in addition. They used to be the size of ticket 2 but changed some time ago.

There is also another design floating around (don't have one to hand at the moment) issued by Virgin East Coast.  This design is similar to thetrouts's image 3, but has the STD/1ST moved to the location of RTN and DSB moved to the left of Price (and now under the header 'Status').  In the new empty space is a Aztec code (a type of 2D barcode that is also used on print at home tickets).

I see no real benefit to the passenger, except you can use the barcode readers attached to some gatelines if you do not want the barrier to eat your ticket (expenses, for example).

Suddenly, I am making more rail journeys than in prior times, and I have taken to ordering my tickets for any foreseeable trips via FGW's website in one go, then collecting them on my first visit to BRI. Intense scrutiny, using an intense scrute, is now needed to avoid presenting the wrong ticket. I have adopted the practice of removing from my wallet only that bit of card needed for the immediate journey.

Brought back to basics, however, the only change in the most important information (for the passenger) on the ticket is the details of the journey - origin and destination. These are now in mixed, rather than upper, case. We'll get used to it before printed tickets disappear forever.

I've just picked up an advance purchase ticket from the TVM at Thatcham (THA) for a journey from there to Loughborough. It appears to be in the new format - but to me it doesn't look as "important" as the old format.

I ordered an advance single and got two items from the TVM - one being the receipt and one which I believe is the ticket. I hope that is right!

I collected some advance London to Bristol tickets from the machine at Penzance on Thursday morning.  They were in the new format but seat reservations still on a separate card.

I agree they don't look as important as the previous design and I am not a huge fan of the font which looks less polished to my eye.

Agreed re: the font but I guess putting everything on the one ticket instead of a separate reservation saves a few trees/^ in the long run?

New style ticket received today at a Slough TVM when I bought a ticket to Paddington.

I purchased a simple Anytime Day Single from the ticket machine at Carmarthen on Saturday (5th Sept.) and got a new-style ticket. There's quite a bit of empty space on the ticket, compared to the old style, and the origin and destination appear to stand out less. One wonders if the information in the new style (plus details of time restrictions, in the case of off-peak tickets, and reservations) could be printed on the reverse of the ticket for the passenger's information with the front of the ticket remaining in the old style to make easier reading for guards / ticket inspectors.

Of course it could be done in theory; all you'd have to do is replace the printers in every ticket machine in the land, in both ticket offices and in TVMs.  Hardly cost effective I reckon.

Paul