Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => London to Reading => Topic started by: BBM on May 03, 2013, 20:16:56



Title: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: BBM on May 03, 2013, 20:16:56
From what I can gather from a combination of FGW Journey Check and Real Time Trains as well as Twitter feeds from a couple of people stuck on the affected service, tonight's 1B69 1745 Paddington to Swansea has failed blocking the Down Main at Hanwell. As at 2015 the train is still there immobile with people tweeting that a promised rescue loco has failed to materialise and the buffet has run out of food and drink. Any idea why the train has failed and why it's taking so long to get a rescue loco? (Presumably a Class 57 from OOC?)


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: grahame on May 03, 2013, 20:35:26
This week ... I've travelled from Melksham to Farnborough (Hants) and back twice, and from Melksham to London (Paddington) and back twice.

Journeys to and from Farnborough have been on time or within a few minutesm, and no connections have been missed.  Not bad going for a journey that's involved up to three changes of train.  Score - four out of four.

Journeys to and from London have not been so good.  On the first journey, the first train was delayed by around 30 minutes due to the failure of another train, and this meant that a connection missed.   The second journey was good. On the third journey, the first train was again delayed - a problem with the train, and it was clear the connection would be missed (and the chap on the help point confirmed that), so I drove to a station with a more frequent service and caught a train from there - I simply can't afford to be unreliable on a daily basis for my customers.  I'm now on the fourth journey; I'm on the 20:00 from Paddington to Chippenham.  It's 20:30 and we've not yet got as far as Old Oak Common. Our Conductor tells us this is due to a failed train, there is heavy congestion, and he doesn't know when we'll get to Bristol.  Score - one out of four.



Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: johoare on May 03, 2013, 21:29:46
I was on the 19.48 from Paddington.. I must have just missed bumping into you Grahame, and will have been on the train ahead of you I guess..  I was nearly an hour late getting back to Maidenhead in the end.. Hope you get/got back eventually


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: grahame on May 03, 2013, 23:04:43
Thanks , Jo.  Home at 22:35.

Due off Paddington at 20:00. Actually left 20:20
Pass Acton Main Line 20:41
Stop Ealing Broadway 20:51 - 20:56
Pass Slough 21:05
Stop Reading 21:22 - 21:24
Stop Didcot 21:41 to 21:42
Stop at Swindon 21:58 - 22:00
Arrive Chippenham 22:12

Had I been on the 17:45 off Paddington - the train which failed - I would have detrained from that at Ealing Broadway and joined the 20:00.

The 17:45 is the train that has a connection to Melksham and is due into Swindon at 18:38.  We got to Swindon at 21:58 ... but the train in the bay said "Cheltenham Spa" on the front of it!


Excellent job of keeping us informed by the train manager / rest of the onboard team who, however, couldn't get through the train.  "Reported Full and Standing" said the display at Chippenham station at 22:12 - that's very late for a train to be so busy.


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: JayMac on May 03, 2013, 23:36:17
1745 failed near Hanwell due to a brake fault in the leading power car, 43145. Driver was initially going to change ends and set back to Ealing Broadway to detrain the passengers. This was not possible, so a rescue locomotive  was sent from Old Oak Common to drag the set at very low speed to Ealing Broadway. Supposition on my part but the delay in sourcing the rescue loco could have been down to the lack of an available driver.

Both the 2000 to Bristol and 2015 to Swansea made stops at Ealing Broadway to collect the passengers who were detrained from the failed set.

Not an ideal way to end the week for the passengers or FGW.


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: BBM on May 11, 2013, 13:31:38
Unfortunately Simon Calder, the senior travel editor for The Independent newspaper, just happened to be on that train and has written about his experience in today's edition:

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/simon-calder-no-happy-ending-to-the-great-escape-from-paddington-8610861.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/simon-calder-no-happy-ending-to-the-great-escape-from-paddington-8610861.html)

Quote
No happy ending to 'The Great Escape' from Paddington

Few trains these days have names, but the 5.45pm each Friday night from Paddington to Swansea deserves to be called The Great Escape. It is packed with commuters heading home from work, augmented by Londoners escaping the capital to weekend hideaways from Gloucestershire to the Gower. Except last Friday night, that is. At the height of the bank holiday weekend getaway, seven miles and seven minutes outside London, the emergency brakes went on and stayed on. More than 500 passengers stopped escaping and began several hours of incarceration.

Apologetic staff walked through the train. They explained what had gone wrong, and what was being done to fix it. They dispensed bottles of water, advised about onward connections and handed out forms so passengers could claim the stipulated compensation for stewing in west London rather than strolling in west Wales.

Did they heck.

As the delay slowly erased a perfect summer evening, the train staff were nowhere to be seen. During the hiatus, only two accurate announcements were made, both by the lady in the buffet. About 80 minutes into the standstill, she said: "We have run out of all alcohol except Arkell's Bitter and spirits." (Clearly the Friday night crowd has a thirst for lager, cider and wine.) And two hours after the sudden halt: "We have run out of sandwiches and hot food" ^ whereupon some of the hungrier passengers started gastronomically evaluating other travellers in case the need arose for Andes‑style improvised dining.

'Never apologise, never explain'

An InterCity train blocking the main line west from London on one of the busiest days of the year is a problem best tackled swiftly. The solution was close at hand: to borrow a locomotive from the Old Oak Common depot just three miles away and hook it up to the afflicted train so the obstruction could be moved and its passengers liberated. But for two hours nothing happened, except that the stricken train became something of a museum piece. Every now and again, a westbound train hurried past on the slow line, its passengers smugly aware that by choosing to travel later than 5.45pm they would arrive at their destination much earlier.

By now, life on board was turning feral, with First Great Western seemingly adopting the corporate motto "Never apologise, never explain".

In the absence of accurate on-board information on anything other than the stock levels at the buffet, some passengers tried phoning National Rail Enquiries. A waste of time and money: staff in the call centre told them the stranded 5.45pm had been cancelled and they should travel instead on the 6.15pm, which had long ago whizzed past the window.

In these modern times, the traveller turns to Twitter to try to find out what is going on. Amelia Walker tweeted: "The longer this train is delayed, the drunker I'm going to get." Not with the buffet running dry, you're not, Amelia.

As trains heading into London became embroiled in the farce, MellyM found herself stationary at a station and tweeted: "It's bad enough I'm always late for work because of your services, but tonight you're making me late for Beyonc^. I hate you, FGW."

Even more poignantly, Mark Sugden mourned: "You and your faulty trains are ruining my honeymoon before it's even begun."

First Great Western comes a dismal last

At the time the train was due to be departing west from Bridgend towards Swansea, it finally started moving east towards Ealing Broadway. The plan was that trains would be stopped at this suburban station to pick up the stranded passengers. "There will be a duty manager available to answer your questions," was a promise that proved as empty as the buffet.

Three trains whooshed past without stopping, before one finally paused for the lost souls. Then the fun started. Two peak-time trains into one don't really go, particularly if a carriage on the replacement train is marked "Vehicle is not in use" because of a power failure. With even standing room running out, some rebellious passengers snuck into the darkened, empty carriage and sat down ^ until the train manager threatened to call the police if they did not leave.

Sue Evans, the director of communications for First Great Western, later told me: "I'm really sorry our customers were delayed on Friday evening. We should have got everyone moving more quickly. Failures of this kind are rare. We got some engineers out straightaway, as they initially believed they could find and fix the problem. After an hour they found they couldn't, and we sent the rescue locomotive."

Travellers understand that things often go wrong in unexpected ways. What counts is how the organisation responds. On this occasion, the train operator failed its passengers dismally. Last word to William Davies, who tweeted: "First Great Western trains are the worst form of transport known to mankind #better off walking."


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 11, 2013, 13:59:18
Unfortunately Simon Calder, the senior travel editor for The Independent newspaper, just happened to be on that train...

Why 'unfortunately?' Which is better: to cover this kind of thing up and pretend it didn't happen, or to scream from the rooftops "this is not good enough!"


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: trainer on May 11, 2013, 16:36:47
Perhaps 'unfortunate' for FGW who would have preferred less publicity for the sorry incident.


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: BBM on May 11, 2013, 18:48:09
Perhaps 'unfortunate' for FGW who would have preferred less publicity for the sorry incident.

That was my thinking!


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 11, 2013, 19:41:37
A couple of points from me, if I may:

- Completely irrelevant picture used to illustrate that article;

- Do we know that Simon Calder was actually on that particular train - his article merely quotes other sources such as twitter.


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: JayMac on May 11, 2013, 19:54:18
I don't think that picture is irrelevant.

It's the folk from the failed train after being deposited at Ealing Broadway. Waiting on the up main platform for another westbound HST to make its additional call. Although not going where they wanted to go, I'm sure that seeing a half empty Heathrow Express service speed through was salt in the wounds.

The picture was originally posted on twitter.


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 11, 2013, 20:24:13
Ah - not in Simon Calder's own pithy article in the Independent, then?  ;)


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: Network SouthEast on May 11, 2013, 20:49:49
Whilst it may seem harsh that when the passengers were detrained at Ealing Broadway they had to see three trains pass through before one stopped, it should be noted the practicalities of issuing special stop (and not to stop) orders.

Usually this is done by staff at the previous staffed station. On 3rd May, I expect that with the congestion of trains the first three through after the passengers had been detrained would have already left Paddington station.

It is also possible for the signaller to contact the driver of a train en-route, but this depends on the driver being in a position to answer a call on their radio and even then the time needed for control to contact NR control and then contact the signaller to contact the driver, so again with so many trains in the area it is not always practical to stop what might seem to the public as the first available train.


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: ChrisB on May 11, 2013, 20:57:26
Very true.

This is the kind of info FGW twitter should have been putting out in answer to complaints/suggsstions on there that those teains could have stopped. Difficult maybe to get into 140 characters, but the gist could have been put out.

Just a thought, Ollie....


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 11, 2013, 21:04:38
My point is that, whatever the technicalities, the punters should be kept informed of:

1. What's gone wrong;
2. How 'the railway' intends to fix it;
3. How long it will take to fix it.

If the plan isn't working, and there are to be further delays, repeat this list from the beginning.

In these days of mass communications, there can be no excuse for not letting the passengers know what's going on. People will put up with a lot if you just let them know where they stand.





Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: ChrisB on May 11, 2013, 21:27:31
Yup, couldn't agree more. Sounds as though the PAD staff on the ground were badly informed/not kept informed at all


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: ellendune on May 11, 2013, 22:15:18
What if the franchise payment to DfT (or part of subsidy from DfT) depended on how well companies did this.  You could perhaps measure it generally by the number of complaints received by companies. A phone call might receive one point, a letter rather more all the way up to a complaint to PF say. Perhaps ORR could do some calling of complainants to see how well customers thought the complaints were handled.

You could then rank the TOCS on the score and they would either have to pay more premium (or get less subsidy) for the worst score.

Fanciful?

Well its been done in the water industry for the last three years (but the payment will only be in 2015 when the next price settlement is done).  And the result...

Is a total change of attitude to customer service.  Taking a bit of time to work it down to the man on the shovel but its happening.

What if this was written into every new franchise....


TOC = Train operating company


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: Timmer on May 12, 2013, 07:37:01
What I struggle to understand is that we hear the same stories time and time again whenever something like this goes wrong on the railways with the TOCs either not or refusing to learn lessons on how things could be done better when this happens again.

For me the biggest thing is the lack of communication at times like this. As Red Squirrel so rightly points out people will put up with quite a bit as long as they know what's going on and this applies in all walks of life not just on the railways.

As discussed in another post, we have to put up with endless announcements both at stations and on trains when all is running well but as soon as things go wrong, the announcements dry up and the digital displays become useless just saying 'delayed'. These should be switched off with a human providing as much information as can be provided at the time.

It's also an embarrassment to the rail industry when passengers take to their smart phones etc and find out more than what the staff at the station actually know about a situation when something has gone wrong.


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: eightf48544 on May 13, 2013, 09:18:17
Re the issuing of Special stop Orders surely it would have been known what time approximatley the broken down train would be dragged back to Ealing Brodway, so that special stops could have been issued at Padd for trains to stop after it's arrival. and detraining. After all it's only 7 minutes non stop PAdd to Ealing Broadway.

It's another issue with separating the wheel from the track management. The TOC cannot do anything without Networkrail's say so, all plans have to be cleared by at least two sets of managemnt or maybe more if other TOCs use the line.  The days of control ringing the signal box saying stop the XX:XX at Y and issue a special stop for X are long gone.

However, I thought that was the idea of GSMR (not sure teh exact acronym) that the signalman could issue such orders to indiviual trains otherwise what's the point of it?

I also think this obsession with measuring an individual train's delay rather than the overall delay so that it's better to have one train delayed 30 minutes rather than 2 trains 10 minutes each. The stopper infront of a late runnign express syndrone. Rather than delaying the stopper say 5/10 minutes to allow a late running express in front you allow stopper out in front and further delay the express.  Crazy system especialy as it is likely conenctions will be missed and in the worst case taxis have to be provided.


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: Network SouthEast on May 13, 2013, 10:01:42
Re the issuing of Special stop Orders surely it would have been known what time approximatley the broken down train would be dragged back to Ealing Brodway, so that special stops could have been issued at Padd for trains to stop after it's arrival. and detraining. After all it's only 7 minutes non stop PAdd to Ealing Broadway.
It's only 7 minutes when everything is working though!

When fast trains and stopping trains are forced through a bottle neck on to one line it can take a lot longer. On the evening in question it was taking some departures from Paddington nearly half an hour.

I'm pretty sure that evening many HST services were given priority over Turbos just to get them out of the way too.


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: ChrisB on May 13, 2013, 11:51:22
Those trains were already outside PAD when the failure was dragged. So the first opportunity to get a stop order on a train soon to leave was done....


Title: Re: Broken down train at Hanwell 03/05
Post by: eightf48544 on May 13, 2013, 13:19:04
If they were taking 30 minutes to get to Ealing then there would have been plenty of time to isue GSMR instructions.



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