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All across the Great Western territory => Fare's Fair => Topic started by: Surrey 455 on June 25, 2013, 12:04:03 am



Title: Pricing anomaly
Post by: Surrey 455 on June 25, 2013, 12:04:03 am
Today I went to Brighton from Epsom. Normally on a journey where I travel through Greater London I will ask for a Gold Card return extension from Boundary Zone 6 to my destination as I've always been under the impression that this would be cheaper. My annual season ticket includes London zones 1-6. The ticket office clerk initially quoted ^12.15 from zone 6 then said wait a minute, It's actually cheaper if you start it from here at ^10.30. This is surprising as the mileage on this ticket is much more than the one I originally requested.

I've checked online and the prices are correct. I did wonder if there might be a strange routing via Horsham and Crawley but the only restriction was "Not via London" so I changed at Clapham Junction as per my original plan.

Oh, if you look online for Zone 6 you won't find it. It seems only ticket offices can print a ticket with that as the start / end point. I normally search on the Network map for the last station within Zone 6 which in this case happens to be Coulsdon South.

Is this pricing a mistake or just weird? I wonder if over the last few years I could have saved money by altering the start point on my ticket.


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: Fourbee on June 25, 2013, 12:19:26 pm
It is definitely worth checking extending the end as well.

For example Havant to Clapham Junction Anytime Day Single = ^26.70 (priced by SWT), extend to Redhill (valid via Clapham Junction) = ^14.90 (priced by Southern).


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: LiskeardRich on June 25, 2013, 01:25:12 pm
I came across another anomaly trying to suggest some split ticket recommendations on another forum, where Cheltenham to Teignmouth/ Dawlish/ Newton Abbot/ Torquay or Paignton were all cheaper than Cheltenham to Exeter St Davids. The Cheltenham - Teignmouth/ Dawlish/ Newton Abbot/ Torquay or Paignton were all priced identically. Cheltenham - Exeter St Davids was ^5 more. The tickets I was looking at were all off peak returns.


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: bobm on June 25, 2013, 01:53:10 pm
Just to point out, for the casual reader, that all the examples above have been careful to point out that the tickets involved are all ones you could buy on the day - although you can book them beforehand if you wish.  You cannot do this with advance, train specific, tickets which require you to join your train at the starting station shown on your ticket and leave at the destination station with any changes of train made as shown on your itinerary.


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: grahame on June 25, 2013, 03:34:18 pm
Just to point out, for the casual reader, that all the examples above have been careful to point out that the tickets involved are all ones you could buy on the day - although you can book them beforehand if you wish.  You cannot do this with advance, train specific, tickets which require you to join your train at the starting station shown on your ticket and leave at the destination station with any changes of train made as shown on your itinerary.

That is a good point well made, Bob. There was an incident where people got off a London to Southampton train early - at Eastleigh - on an advanced ticket, and were charged full price for the whole journey from London.   They should have stayed on the train to Southampton, and bought a ticket back to Eastleigh which would have cost them less in the end.  Nothing to stop you doing that - and can save a lot of money at times if you don't mind the extra journey!


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: paul7575 on June 25, 2013, 09:09:58 pm

Oh, if you look online for Zone 6 you won't find it. It seems only ticket offices can print a ticket with that as the start / end point.


That's probably because tickets from Boundary Zones are effectively a specific type of excess fare, to be precise an excess fare that is pre-calculated and loaded into fares systems.  A ticket office is only supposed to sell you one if they have sight of the ticket you are extending, hence they aren't available online, and usually aren't available from TVMs - except in Southern's area...

Paul


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: Brucey on June 25, 2013, 09:33:32 pm
It is definitely worth checking extending the end as well.

For example Havant to Clapham Junction Anytime Day Single = ^26.70 (priced by SWT), extend to Redhill (valid via Clapham Junction) = ^14.90 (priced by Southern).
If my weekday train stopped at Clapham, your post cost have just saved me ^150 per month on my season ticket :o (combining a Havant to Redhill Season with a Z1-2 Travelcard - two seasons so train must stop).  I'll remember this when I need day fares though - huge saving to be made.


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: thetrout on June 26, 2013, 01:00:22 am
What was the Gold Card you already have if you don't mind me asking?

I attempted to look up the Boundary Zone 6 Fares to Brighton and couldn't replicate the pricing stated... ???

I was using www.brfares.com (http://www.brfares.com) Which for "The Manual" available to the public for no cost, that site is about as good as it gets. It's certainly been accurate for every fare I've looked up so far :)


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: stuving on June 26, 2013, 07:32:02 am
What was the Gold Card you already have if you don't mind me asking?
See http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/prc08c7ad3f74ac88236c9cef703a96b.aspx (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/prc08c7ad3f74ac88236c9cef703a96b.aspx)
It's basically an old-rules Network Card that comes free with an annual season within the Network Card area.


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: thetrout on June 26, 2013, 10:10:54 am
What was the Gold Card you already have if you don't mind me asking?
See http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/prc08c7ad3f74ac88236c9cef703a96b.aspx (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/prc08c7ad3f74ac88236c9cef703a96b.aspx)
It's basically an old-rules Network Card that comes free with an annual season within the Network Card area.

Sorry, I should've made that much more clear. I know what the Gold Card is. If I said I have one and the letters RYR and RYD; you'll get where I'm going with that one......... :-X ;D ;)

However I was wondering the origin station on the Goldcard that lhrdave mentioned in his first post, as I couldn't replicate the prices on brfares.com and I know there is a good 'discount' (More of a very cheap ticket) to be had from Epsom.

Sorry if that sounds really patronising... It's not meant too! :)


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: Fourbee on June 26, 2013, 10:21:11 am
It is definitely worth checking extending the end as well.

For example Havant to Clapham Junction Anytime Day Single = ^26.70 (priced by SWT), extend to Redhill (valid via Clapham Junction) = ^14.90 (priced by Southern).
If my weekday train stopped at Clapham, your post cost have just saved me ^150 per month on my season ticket :o (combining a Havant to Redhill Season with a Z1-2 Travelcard - two seasons so train must stop).  I'll remember this when I need day fares though - huge saving to be made.

Assuming you are going into London and 23 working days max (e.g. July this year), Clapham Junction to London Terminals Anytime Day Return is ^5.60, so x 23 = ^128.80 (to be deducted from the saving).

Obviously losing several elements of flexibility and the hassle of buying dailies.

Also, something else to be considered is if the routing guide/easements are tinkered with during the period of a season to your disadvantage maybe?


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: thetrout on June 26, 2013, 11:01:11 am
Also, something else to be considered is if the routing guide/easements are tinkered with during the period of a season to your disadvantage maybe?

Surely the disadvantage would be waived during the remaining validity of the season?

Say I purchased a Season from Westbury - Coventry and a smart ar$e decided to put an easement into the manual that stopped me travelling via Reading... I'd be more than a tad annoyed at that. Not to mention an extra change and a longer journey which could make the whole commute non-viable!


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: Fourbee on June 26, 2013, 11:05:43 am
Or, at a bare minimum a full refund for the unused days without the admin fee as the product has substantially changed.


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: thetrout on June 26, 2013, 01:17:40 pm
Agree completely. Also, considering that when you purchase the season ticket, you are entering into a contract. You may very well have grounds for complaint under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/50)

Of course I am not a qualified legal professional so couldn't say for definite. However the thought was in my head immediately after reading that :-X :-\


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: Surrey 455 on June 26, 2013, 08:11:25 pm
However I was wondering the origin station on the Goldcard that lhrdave mentioned in his first post, as I couldn't replicate the prices on brfares.com and I know there is a good 'discount' (More of a very cheap ticket) to be had from Epsom.

I started the journey at Epsom. My original intention was to use my existing Gold card all the way into Greater London and then out again by paying for the section between Coulsdon South and Brighton at Epsom. My Annual gold card is essentially a zones 1-6 travelcard with an extension to Bookham. I was already in Epsom to get a few things for my weeks holiday in Greece starting tomorrow  :)

I've taken  screen prints from BR Fares showing the prices.


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: Surrey 455 on June 26, 2013, 08:15:40 pm

Oh, if you look online for Zone 6 you won't find it. It seems only ticket offices can print a ticket with that as the start / end point.


That's probably because tickets from Boundary Zones are effectively a specific type of excess fare, to be precise an excess fare that is pre-calculated and loaded into fares systems.  A ticket office is only supposed to sell you one if they have sight of the ticket you are extending, hence they aren't available online, and usually aren't available from TVMs - except in Southern's area...

Paul

Interesting... The next station down the line from me is a Southern station. I'll have to investigate.


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: Southern Stag on June 26, 2013, 10:14:51 pm
Works from Southern TVMs because you can buy tickets from another origin station. If you can only buy tickets from the station you're at, like with most TVMs, you obviously can't buy a Boundary Zone ticket.


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: Brucey on June 27, 2013, 04:12:03 pm
Works from Southern TVMs because you can buy tickets from another origin station. If you can only buy tickets from the station you're at, like with most TVMs, you obviously can't buy a Boundary Zone ticket.
Do Southern's TVMs have "Boundary Zone x" available to buy to/from?  I've tried buying to "Boundary Zone 6" on both SWT and London Midland machines without success.


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: Southern Stag on June 27, 2013, 04:33:36 pm
I don't think you can buy to, but you can apparently buy from.


Title: Re: Pricing anomaly
Post by: jamestheredengine on May 16, 2019, 08:30:01 am
Noticed another weird one in much the same vein:

Bristol Parkway to Newport
SDS  ANYTIME DAY S          ◊    STD  SINGLE   ADULT: £12.30   CHILD: £6.15
CDS  OFF-PEAK DAY S   W1    ◊    STD  SINGLE   ADULT: £12.00   CHILD: £6.00

Bristol Parkway to Cardiff Central
SDS  ANYTIME DAY S          ◊    STD  SINGLE   ADULT: £12.00   CHILD: £6.00

Both set by GWR. Presumably this is a mistake, as I can't exactly see them getting many 30ps from people who want to go to Newport and never come back.



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