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Journey by Journey => Bristol Commuters => Topic started by: chuffed on October 29, 2013, 05:17:26 pm



Title: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on October 29, 2013, 05:17:26 pm
Well they've got 2 days left, or do you suppose it will be a 'rabbit to be pulled out of the hat' at Transport Questions on 7 Nov ?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on October 29, 2013, 06:03:54 pm
I don't think it will necessarily rate its own announcement as I've pointed out before.  When considered nationally it is just one of many, many schemes being decided on in NR/ORRs ongoing discussions regarding the CP5 settlement. 

Those discussions reach a certain stage on October 31st, 'ORR's final determination', but that's all it is, a stage in the overall process which AFAICT won't be finally decided until March next year...

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on October 30, 2013, 09:06:58 pm
As you would expect, I have been watching for news myself. There was a mention on BBC West news tonight, with a report and a bit of footage, but it was vague. DafT has been remarhably quiet over the past couple of days, with zero RSS feeds today. There's usually someone with a fondness for the sound of their own voice re-releasing some old news.

Speaking of which, Margaret Hodge has been ripping into DafT's capability so far as HS2 is concerned, and has expressed shock at how few top experts are on the payroll. Whilst she has stopped short of suggesting that DafT tries to tempt some of the many it made redundant out of early retirement, it could explain the silence, as what few civil servants are left check and double-check every sum.

I shall check my RSS inbox before leaving for work tomorrow. Trick or treat?

Edit: Nothing at 7.20, although it's top of the news on BBC. Off to earn a crust, then.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on October 31, 2013, 07:38:14 am
The final determination (http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/pr13/PDF/pr13-final-determination.pdf) (page 918) includes

"Dr Days to Filton Abbey Wood capacity" and
Bristol Temple Meads passenger capacity


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on October 31, 2013, 05:44:06 pm
The economy of words is commendable...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on October 31, 2013, 06:02:54 pm
The BBC's thorough analysis of nearly 1000 pages of information about the whole of the CP5 work package seems to have stopped at 'level crossings'...

Useless.

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on October 31, 2013, 06:34:31 pm
The BBC's thorough analysis of nearly 1000 pages of information about the whole of the CP5 work package seems to have stopped at 'level crossings'...

With the BBC1 6 o'clock news headlines this evening having George Alagiah saying, "100s of dangerous level crossing will be closed...." over the recent footage of the idiot cyclist who nearly became a Class 170 hood ornament. A bad example of a 'dangerous' level crossing. The crossing was working perfectly correctly, the only dangerous activity was that of the cyclist ignoring the lights and barrier.

There are isolated incidents of level crossings and their operation proving to be dangerous following RAIB (and its predecessors) reports. The vast majority of incidents at level crossings are however down to vehicle driver/pedestrian misuse or error.

Totally inaccurate of the BBC to describe 100s of level crossings as 'dangerous'.



Apropos of nothing. My 9000th post!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on November 02, 2013, 07:37:04 am
This is one time when I don't want to believe everything I read in the EP !


The wait goes on for four-track funding to pave the way for Bristol Met


Read more: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/wait-goes-track-funding-pave-way-Bristol-Metro/story-20019987-detail/story.html#ixzz2jTHCnncl


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 09, 2013, 01:03:01 pm
West of England Partnership's Joint Transport Executive Committee's minutes of the meeting held 2 December 2013 (http://www.westofenglandlep.co.uk/transport-and-infrastructure/joint-meetings-of-local-authority-partners/joint-transport-executive-committee/) give some hope and a possible timescale for the four-tracking seemingly announced in July 2012:

Quote
Network Rail Update
14.The Office of Rail Regulation (ORR) on 31 October 2013 published its Periodic Review 2013: Final determination of Network Rail's outputs and funding for 2014-19. Essentially it sets out what Network Rail can do over the next five years. It follows on from the draft Determination published in June 2013.
15.The four tracking of Filton Bank (described as Dr Days to Filton Abbey Wood capacity) is included in Annex E to the report in Table E.1 on p918. It is listed along with a host of ^Other Named Schemes^ under the general heading ^Schemes subject to the cost adjustment mechanism included in the overspend/underspend framework.^ Bristol Temple Meads passenger capacity is on the same list. No individual scheme cost figures are provided in this section although a total cost of ^5.9bn is. Effectively this means Network Rail will be provided with an overall budget within which they will budget for individual schemes.
16.The ORR is giving Network Rail until March 2015 to work up efficient plans for these enhancements before approving the funds. Network Rail remain confident the scheme will happen and they continue to design and plan for the scheme.

Which is a bit different to the quote given by Bristol City Council's Comms Officer 17 months ago:

Quote
Four track for Filton Bank? That^s a yes
 Posted on July 16, 2012 by commsofficer
 1

 A corporate sweat broke out on the forehead of the four authorities when dawn broke this morning, as we waited nervously to see if the government had funded our four tracks to Filton Bank.

 You can see who we were up against on the DfT website

 And then Rail Minister Theresa Villiers swept into Temple Meads (looking a lot calmer than us) to confirm that four-track from Temple Meads to Filton Bank will go ahead.

 Anyway, it^s all down to you again, wonderful public who like trains. Four track is the crucial bit of the jigsaw that we have to put in place to get Greater Bristol Metro Rail to work. So many, many thanks to the hundreds of you who wrote special letters to the ministers about it. Half-hourly trains in Bristol and the region, a new line to Portishead, and all those re-opened stations can actually happen.

What gives me most confidence is Network Rail's apparent desire to do the work.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on December 09, 2013, 01:38:51 pm
What gives me most confidence is Network Rail's apparent desire to do the work.

I think it's more that they interact with DfT and ORR enough to know what could prevent it. Certainly I heard from within NR that it will happen and people are working (quite a lot of them, too) on that basis.

I guess it's been scoring high marks for hoop jumping.

The same was said - though it is at an earlier stage, and needs more money (hence more hoops) - about Heathrow Western Access.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 09, 2013, 01:51:10 pm
It is a sad indictment of how we do infrastructure in this country that a scheme confirmed by a minister in July 2012 has to wait until 2015 to be confirmed. I can't see how it can be not done. So much else is happening that will need extra capacity, not least of which is IEP, that it has to happen. Our councillors are on the scrounge for some cascaded 165s with a view to extra local services as well.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on December 09, 2013, 05:10:10 pm
It is a sad indictment of how we do infrastructure in this country that a scheme confirmed by a minister in July 2012 has to wait until 2015 to be confirmed. I can't see how it can be not done. So much else is happening that will need extra capacity, not least of which is IEP, that it has to happen. Our councillors are on the scrounge for some cascaded 165s with a view to extra local services as well.

It will be confirmed (or not) by the end of March 2014, not in 2015.  That's when NR will publish the agreed CP5 project list, as has been the case since the HLOS was published in 2012.  The HLOS was not 'confirmation by a minister', at that stage it was a list of proposals, and a supporting statement of funds available.  Detail was to be negotiated between NR/ORR by end March 2014. 

ISTM that local media and local politicians in the Bristol area have been clouding the issues and timescales.  The decision is not late, because it is not yet due.

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on December 09, 2013, 05:51:22 pm
Hopefully the newts and bats will still be in hibernation by the end of March. Then the cynic in me, thinks they can just  have 'vinyls applied' and are rebranded, ready to be put in the next cave /pond by (insert name of  group of protestors/saboteurs) who are against (insert name of infrastructure project !)
I am starting to wonder wheteher if we have great crested newt breeding farms in this country....shouldn't DEFRA be thinking about a cull?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 09, 2013, 07:17:38 pm
Thank you Paul7755, for the clearest explanation ever of what is going on. Hype by Bristol's politicos and the Post, then, along with photo opportunities by Mesdames Villiers (now Northern Ireland minister - a step up) and Greening (International  Development - a big step down). Meanwhile, civil servants are quietly going over the figures. We know where the real power lies.

March 2014 it is, then. Let's hope the ORR and DafT agree with NR. Hopefully, Four Track, Then!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on December 18, 2013, 09:52:45 pm
NR has today published an update on CP5 projects. Four tracking is still envisaged - the fact that a fourth platform is envisaged at Filton AW would appear to indicate that a full four tracking is the likely outcome - Abbey Wood is the one place where I could have envisaged a little paring back to save on costs.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 18, 2013, 10:15:52 pm
I notice it also include a project of gauge clearance to cascade 165 dmus to the west country


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: anthony215 on December 19, 2013, 12:19:01 am
That isnt really a surprise considering many have expected the class 165/166 turbo fleet to make their way westwards.

I believe these units will bring a good boost to rail services around Bristol with their extra seating and higher top speeds.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on December 19, 2013, 12:29:01 pm
I notice it also include a project of gauge clearance to cascade 165 dmus to the west country

That has been highly likely for a good few years, it was mentioned in the SWML route plans (i.e. for Portsmouth Cardiff) 7 or 8 years ago.

In NR's revised list of CP5 work, published as an update in Jan 2013 following the HLOS, they included a project named "West of England Diesel Multiple Unit capability works"  which gave an explicit list of main and diversionary route:

Quote
...To provide infrastructure capability enhancements to enable operation of cascaded DMUs
from the Thames Valley to the West Country. Network Rail believes that the constituent
parts of the infrastructure capability works are as follows;
Scope of works
Gauge clearance for the cascaded Class 165 and 166 DMU fleet; and
A review of station operations at all stations where cascaded DMU trains are due to stop;
this may result in platform extensions; selective door opening; revisions to permissive
working for attaching; detaching; platform sharing arrangements and alterations to signal
controls and signal locations to deal with changes to train operations
Network Rail has assumed that the cascaded Class 165 and 166 units will operate over the
following parts of the Western, Wales and Wessex Routes:
Core routes:
o Cardiff - Bristol - Exeter ^ Penzance (including Weston-super-Mare)
o Bristol to Portsmouth
o Westbury to Weymouth
o Bristol to Worcester (including Gloucester)
o Bristol to Severn Beach
o Swindon to Gloucester
o Swindon to Westbury
Diversionary routes
o Bristol to Parkway via Avonmouth
o Castle Cary to Exeter
o Castle Cary to Exeter via Yeovil
o Romsey to Fareham via Eastleigh

It clearly covers nearly everywhere except Devon and Cornwall locals and not just the Bristol area as sometimes thought.   In this week's update, they've distilled the above down to just this:  "Network Rail has assumed that the cascaded Class 165 and 166 units will operate over extensive parts of the Western, Wales and Wessex Routes."

By the way, to save searching, the latest drafts of the delivery plan and the enhancements plan can be found here:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/draft-cp5-delivery-plan/

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 19, 2013, 12:42:52 pm
It clearly covers nearly everywhere except Devon and Cornwall locals and not just the Bristol area as sometimes thought.

Included is the TransWilts (you would expect me to highlight that, of course!) but it appears that Brighton is not, nor (but I may be a pedant here) the Rhubarb loop.  And I thinks that's everything North East of Cowley Bridge?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on December 19, 2013, 01:09:48 pm
They don't go beyond Worcester either, so I wonder if like Brighton (which I hadn't spotted) that's just a slip up or is intentional, given that Brighton is usually linked with Great Malvern?

Paul




Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 19, 2013, 01:22:43 pm
They don't go beyond Worcester either, so I wonder if like Brighton (which I hadn't spotted) that's just a slip up or is intentional, given that Brighton is usually linked with Great Malvern?

Paul


Worcester to Great Malvern is already cleared for 165/166 though


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on December 19, 2013, 01:40:50 pm
Worcester to Great Malvern is already cleared for 165/166 though

Ah yes of course, for the main service via the Cotswolds...   ::)

A bit off my beaten track...

Paul



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on December 19, 2013, 09:56:13 pm
In NR's revised list of CP5 work, published as an update in Jan 2013 following the HLOS, they included a project named "West of England Diesel Multiple Unit capability works"  which gave an explicit list of main and diversionary route:

Quote
...To provide infrastructure capability enhancements to enable operation of cascaded DMUs
from the Thames Valley to the West Country. Network Rail believes that the constituent
parts of the infrastructure capability works are as follows;
Scope of works
Gauge clearance for the cascaded Class 165 and 166 DMU fleet; and
A review of station operations at all stations where cascaded DMU trains are due to stop;
this may result in platform extensions; selective door opening; revisions to permissive
working for attaching; detaching; platform sharing arrangements and alterations to signal
controls and signal locations to deal with changes to train operations
Network Rail has assumed that the cascaded Class 165 and 166 units will operate over the
following parts of the Western, Wales and Wessex Routes:
Core routes:
o Cardiff - Bristol - Exeter ^ Penzance (including Weston-super-Mare)
o Bristol to Portsmouth

o Westbury to Weymouth
o Bristol to Worcester (including Gloucester)
o Bristol to Severn Beach
o Swindon to Gloucester
o Swindon to Westbury
Diversionary routes
o Bristol to Parkway via Avonmouth
o Castle Cary to Exeter
o Castle Cary to Exeter via Yeovil
o Romsey to Fareham via Eastleigh

It clearly covers nearly everywhere except Devon and Cornwall locals and not just the Bristol area as sometimes thought.   In this week's update, they've distilled the above down to just this:  "Network Rail has assumed that the cascaded Class 165 and 166 units will operate over extensive parts of the Western, Wales and Wessex Routes."

By the way, to save searching, the latest drafts of the delivery plan and the enhancements plan can be found here:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/draft-cp5-delivery-plan/

Paul
Doesn't sound good. :( More suburan stock on Regional Express services. :'(

And why does the Wales route come into it? I thought a Swansea-Bristol electric service was looking likely, which I thought would be in place of the Cardiff-Taunton, with DMUs running Bristol-Taunton instead or perhaps linking Taunton-Bristol with the Gloucester/GreatMalvern - Bristol trains instead of Cardiffs.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Network SouthEast on December 21, 2013, 04:41:59 pm
I don't think Turbos operating on long distance regional routes is necessarily a bad thing IF they get a good quality refurb (like the Chiltern ones had).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Andrew1939 from West Oxon on December 21, 2013, 04:54:55 pm
I agree with the last comment - the Turbos are good trains and, I believe, have had superior reliability,
We had them on the Cotswold Line since soon after they were introduced and the ride on them is very good. The seating layout (3+2) is adequate for suburban services but for longer distance journeys such as on the CL, not really satisfactory. As already commented, the Chiltern refurbishment was a much more satisfactory arrangement for longer journeys.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on March 10, 2014, 08:12:25 am
Four-tracking expected to go ahead, according to Chris Aldridge of Network Rail - http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/Electric-trains-London-Bristol-running-Great/story-20785715-detail/story.html

Decision expected later this year, according to the article.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 10, 2014, 07:17:02 pm
I hope Chris Aldridge is right! That will be a fun engineering project to watch taking place. Part of my working week is spent in Stapleton Road, and I should see what's happening at close quarter. The recent round of fettling of the stone bridge, with its new truss rods and pointing, seems to be over, but the stockyard by the station remains, and the interpontal section remains fenced off - waiting for further orders?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on March 31, 2014, 12:29:14 pm
Is this the last final announcement to gladden FTN's heart, or yet another 'cold' dish served lukewarm ?

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-26815987):

Quote
Bristol rail investment to see tracks reinstated

Reinstating four tracks between Bristol Parkway and Bristol Temple Meads is part of a ^700m investment in the city's railway infrastructure.

Network Rail has announced 31 projects in the city over the next five years including the electrification of the line between Bristol and London.

Doubling the track has been described as "fundamental" to the expansion of services in and around Bristol

"Reinstating the four lines between Temple Meads and Parkway is the arterial route around which the rest of the Bristol growing railway is going to be hung," said Mike Gallop, Network Rail's Route Asset Director.

The new tracks will be built on Filton Bank, making it possible for local passenger services to use the line.

"It's a very significant first step but it is a first step," said Rob Dixon from the campaign group Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways.

"Without this investment there can be no improvements in local services - things like the reopening of the line to Portishead, the Henbury Loop, improvements on the Severn Beach line and from Weston to Yate - which all need extra capacity and without that they just couldn't run. So these changes are a first step to what we want and need to see."

Charlotte Leslie, Conservative MP for Bristol North West, has campaigned for the reopening of the Henbury Loop.

"The four-tracking of Filton Bank is the basic infrastructure which makes other things possible," said Ms Leslie.

"But what I'd like to see is more ambition in getting Henbury station and Henbury Loop and our network of rail around the city open faster because Bristol is growing and our transport infrastructure isn't keeping up."

The package also includes building new platforms at Bristol Parkway and upgrading Bristol Temple Meads station.


Moderator note: Edited to include quote and attribute source. bignosemac


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 31, 2014, 01:23:56 pm
Looks tasty to me! I shall do more research before popping any corks, but it looks good to me so far!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on March 31, 2014, 01:27:07 pm
Looks tasty to me! I shall do more research before popping any corks, but it looks good to me so far!

 :o   So they've confirmed the work in the required timescales I explained in post #11 after all; whatever next!

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Aasimuk on March 31, 2014, 01:49:56 pm
Anywhere that gives the breakdown of what exactly has been approved?
All I can find is www.betterrailway.co.uk


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on March 31, 2014, 02:02:36 pm
I'm a little too busy to go looking for the nuts and bolts of the latest announcement from Network Rail. From a quick skim read of their press release, much of it is about existing projects such as Reading, Birmingham New Street, GWML electrification, Northern Hub etc. Hard to decipher what's actually new in relation to the Bristol area in specific detail.

Meanwhile though, may I extend a warm welcome to the forum Aasimuk.  :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 31, 2014, 02:44:49 pm
Anywhere that gives the breakdown of what exactly has been approved?
All I can find is www.betterrailway.co.uk

There should be the final delivery plan replacing the draft delivery plan released very shortly.  By the end of March 2014 according to this page of the Network Rail website:  http://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/draft-cp5-delivery-plan/ (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/draft-cp5-delivery-plan/)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on March 31, 2014, 03:10:08 pm
Anywhere that gives the breakdown of what exactly has been approved?
All I can find is www.betterrailway.co.uk

There should be the final delivery plan replacing the draft delivery plan released very shortly.  By the end of March 2014 according to this page of the Network Rail website:  http://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/draft-cp5-delivery-plan/ (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/draft-cp5-delivery-plan/)

The March 14 version of the 'CP5 enhancements delivery plan' is now online, AFAICT it must have been posted within a few minutes of II's post above.   Third (PDF) link down on this page, the four tracking is on page 99 :

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/cp5-delivery-plan/

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 01, 2014, 03:59:40 pm

 :o   So they've confirmed the work in the required timescales I explained in post #11 after all; whatever next!

Paul

Yes Paul, you are entitled to credit for telling us exactly what, where, and when. I wish I had your faith!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on April 01, 2014, 05:27:43 pm
Yes Paul, you are entitled to credit for telling us exactly what, where, and when. I wish I had your faith!

I just remember a similar series of discussions leading up to the CP4 announcement 5 years ago, all the decision and confirmation dates are set down in the 2005 Railways Act.  It's a bit like the old 'watched pot never boils'...

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 01, 2014, 06:55:06 pm

I just remember a similar series of discussions leading up to the CP4 announcement 5 years ago, all the decision and confirmation dates are set down in the 2005 Railways Act.  It's a bit like the old 'watched pot never boils'...

Paul

Makes you wonder why the "Oh yes it is! / Oh no it isn't!" sort of politics applies to transport and throws out half-truths and mixed messages when a clear direction would help plan improvements.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 01, 2014, 07:05:49 pm
...It's a bit like the old 'watched pot never boils'...

I think you could forgive us if we've allowed ourselves to get slightly over-excited by all this... speaking for myself, these are the first really significant positive changes I've seen to the rail infrastructure of this region in my entire lifetime... and I am pretty ancient for a squirrel!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 27, 2014, 12:46:50 pm
Structural soil survey people were hard at work under the derelict bridge at SRD.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 01, 2014, 04:05:22 pm
The planning portal on Bristol City Council's website* has this

Quote

14/01549/SCR | Request for a screening opinion as to whether an environmental impact assessment is require for Filton bank capacity improvement project : railway line between temple meads and filton abbey wood stations.(railway Track Redoubling Project). | Railway Between Temple Meads And Abbey Wood Stations Bristol


Some good plans to pore over there.

As far as I can tell the conclusion is that an EIA is not required. All good, and signs of progress.

* go to http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=simple&searchType=Application and enter the reference 14/01549/SCR


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Oxman on October 30, 2014, 11:15:41 am
NR has announced today that it has awarded a ^33m contract to Taylor Woodrow for this work to start in December 2014. No completion date given!

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/News-Releases/Doubling-of-the-railway-lines-between-Bristol-stations-is-given-the-green-light-21aa.aspx


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on October 30, 2014, 04:11:27 pm
Also announced by Assistant Mayor Mark Bradshaw via the BBC: (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-29833216)

Quote
Bristol Temple Meads and Parkway get extra tracks

Two new tracks between Bristol's main railway stations will provide the capacity to "grow" local rail services, the city's assistant mayor has said.

Network Rail said this would double the capacity between Temple Meads and Parkway stations, would allow more trains to run and cut journey times.

Councillor Mark Bradshaw said it would make it easier to open the Henbury loop and cross Bristol routes which campaigners have long called for.

The work is due to start in December.

"It's consistent with the [under construction] fast electric services into London and south Wales and that very important CrossCountry link to the Midlands and HS2," Mr Bradshaw said.

Freight increase
Network Rail said the ^33m investment would help with the demand for rail transport into and out of the city which it says is set to rise by 50% within a decade.

"To help meet this demand, the number of lines between Temple Meads and Parkway stations will be increased from two to four through Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill [stations]," a Network Rail spokesman said.

"The extra lines will also enable an increase in freight services."

The Henbury loop, which closed nearly 50 years ago, connects Avonmouth, Shirehampton, Sea Mills, Lawrence Weston and north Bristol

Campaigners hope the circular route around the city, and re-opening the Portishead to Temple Meads line to passengers, would help provide a viable Bristol rail metro.

The only real addition to the sum of knowledge is that work is due to start in December. As much of the design work has been done, I would think this means work in the more physical sense, and shall keep an eye out.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: trainbuff on October 31, 2014, 12:09:31 pm
Once complete will FTN be changing his username to 'Four Tracked Then'? Seriously though, this is good news. Filton bank is a very crowded portion of track and this is long overdue. Also looking forward to extra platform at Bristol Parkway


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on October 31, 2014, 03:58:10 pm
No it will be to Six Track Now (STN) to cater for the 5 minute metro service on the Henbury llop.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on October 31, 2014, 04:19:02 pm
The only real addition to the sum of knowledge is that work is due to start in December. As much of the design work has been done, I would think this means work in the more physical sense, and shall keep an eye out.


The last CP5 enhancement plan had work on the ground not starting until May 2015, (with completion Aug 2017) so this could be a six month advance if they really do start...

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on October 31, 2014, 05:44:45 pm
Once complete will FTN be changing his username to 'Four Tracked Then'? Seriously though, this is good news. Filton bank is a very crowded portion of track and this is long overdue. Also looking forward to extra platform at Bristol Parkway

I already changed it once, from the campaigning motto Four Track Now! to the much more triumphalist Four Track, Now!

I'm off down the Knights Templar shortly to meet a few friends, so it may be Four Pints Now! ere the night is out.

Edit: As a parrot.Still walked home quicker than the bus.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on November 14, 2014, 02:16:42 pm
Did anyone go along to the Easton Community Centre meeting on Mon 10th November 3.30 - 6pm with Network Rail ?.
If so, did you find anything out ?.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 15, 2014, 05:04:08 pm
Oh, the irony! You wait for Four Years, Now!, and they choose a night I am working on my tan in Tenerife. (Actually, on the day itself I was on La Gomera). There will be another in January, NR told me in reply to my anguished Tweet, date TBA.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on December 13, 2014, 08:38:16 pm
Not yet seen any sign that the December "to be confirmed" start date for vegetation clearance on Filton Bank has commenced. ???


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 14, 2014, 11:06:18 am
Moi non plus. But it it still December...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 14, 2014, 10:15:47 pm
Moi non plus. But it it still December...

As may be, but it will need to be completed before the birds start nesting. Mid-March?

I wonder where the work will start. Possibly the thickest vegetation is around Ashley Down, which may be as good a place as any to wield the secateurs first.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on December 14, 2014, 10:34:59 pm
Well, if they're going to use secateurs it'll take them until March just to get as far as Narroways Junction. One hopes that a few chainsaws and maybe a rail mounted equivalent of that contraption farmers use on hedgerows will be employed.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 15, 2014, 10:59:50 am
Moi non plus. But it it still December...

As may be, but it will need to be completed before the birds start nesting. Mid-March?

I wonder where the work will start. Possibly the thickest vegetation is around Ashley Down, which may be as good a place as any to wield the secateurs first.

Hmm; for 'thick vegetation' you could read 'a beautiful green oasis'. These works are really not going to improve the Boiling Wells Project (http://www.accessiblewebdesign.co.uk/clients/swcf/boiling_wells_project.html), not even a tiny bit. Very sad; we've been to a couple of excellent kids' parties there. Omelettes and eggs, I suppose.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 16, 2014, 09:45:16 pm
Don't worry, Red Squirrel, there will still be plenty of city farm to go around.

Apropos which I caught the train from SRD to BRI today, and saw this:
(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/20141216_085335_zpsdd5a9784.jpg)

where the southern bit of Eastside Roots used to be. There is an identical patch of concrete surrounded by railings between Dr Days Junction and Temple Meads, clearly of recent construction. Anyone able to explain?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 16, 2014, 10:20:53 pm
Looks like a site for a relocatable equipment building (REB) - a large signalling equipment cabinet.  I assume it is the start of the Bristol Resignalling scheme.   


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 16, 2014, 10:56:49 pm
Looks like a site for a relocatable equipment building (REB) - a large signalling equipment cabinet.  I assume it is the start of the Bristol Resignalling scheme.   

Way-hay! Signs of modernisation at last! Having solved one mystery, I pose another question: why is this set of points / bit of rail on the disused platform at SRD?
(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/20141216_085403_zpsb8fbb1ef.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on December 16, 2014, 11:02:42 pm
It's been there for a few months...just off the track line on the line of the far platform which is apparently not being reinstated. My guess is that it's a foundation for the electrificaction to Wales (sub station or similar).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 17, 2014, 09:54:50 pm
I went to Gloucester via Cheltenham today, and saw more of these. One was near Charfield, I didn't recognise the locations of the others. Things are moving.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 17, 2014, 10:09:24 pm
Way-hay! Signs of modernisation at last! Having solved one mystery, I pose another question: why is this set of points / bit of rail on the disused platform at SRD?

I think it is supposed to stop trespassers walking along the line. 


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on December 17, 2014, 10:44:22 pm
Surely the palisade fencing and 'egg-tray' rubber anti-trespass panel is there to prevent trespass onto the line/disused section of platform.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 17, 2014, 10:50:46 pm
Surely the palisade fencing and 'egg-tray' rubber anti-trespass panel is there to prevent trespass onto the line/disused section of platform.

I think that was what I was trying to say - you put it so much more clearly


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 18, 2014, 10:16:49 am
Looks like a site for a relocatable equipment building (REB) - a large signalling equipment cabinet.  I assume it is the start of the Bristol Resignalling scheme.   

Way-hay! Signs of modernisation at last! Having solved one mystery, I pose another question: why is this set of points / bit of rail on the disused platform at SRD?
(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/20141216_085403_zpsb8fbb1ef.jpg)

I think maybe johnneyw and ellendune may have mistaken what FT, N! was referring to - towards the top of the picture, to the right of the patch of glare and embedded in the platform, is what appears to be a set of points .

Don't worry, Red Squirrel, there will still be plenty of city farm to go around.

The Boiling Wells Project is to the east of the railway embankment, whereas the City Farm is to the west. At the moment there are tallish trees on the east-facing slope of the embankment, which gives the Boiling Wells valley a pleasant, rural feel. If you look at the Arup visualisation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jUYViwle1c), at about 1' 34s, you'll see 'Ashley Hill Embankment South (Down) - 205m Contiguous Pile Wall and Regrade'. I don't think it's going to be very pretty when they finish! But as I say; eggs and omelettes.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on December 18, 2014, 10:54:22 am
At some locations ready use spare S&C components are left stored trackside, if there's a failure a load of men in a few vans can sort it out.   

Either that or it has been delivered early for an upcoming renewal somewhere in the vicinity, but not necessarily that close.  I expect delivery of such components is by flat bed lorry to a convenient point, with road-rail machines appearing some time later to deliver to the actual worksite, which may be up or down the line somewhere.

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on December 18, 2014, 11:03:36 am
I think maybe johnneyw and ellendune may have mistaken what FT, N! was referring to - towards the top of the picture, to the right of the patch of glare and embedded in the platform, is what appears to be a set of points .

I don't think that's what they are. It's some other bits of ironmongery - possible leftovers from the railings?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on December 18, 2014, 11:24:30 am
I think maybe johnneyw and ellendune may have mistaken what FT, N! was referring to - towards the top of the picture, to the right of the patch of glare and embedded in the platform, is what appears to be a set of points .

I don't think that's what they are. It's some other bits of ironmongery - possible leftovers from the railings?

They're definitely switch blades and stock rails.  If you magnify it and look at the far ends, you can see the fixed blocks that separate the parts of the switch that don't move with respect to one another.

But contrary to my previous post, having now magnified the image, I'd tend towards them being scrap, because there seem to be signs that there are either bits of sleepers or chairs under them as well...

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 18, 2014, 11:33:16 am
In this view from Google Maps (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Stapleton+Road/@51.4667975,-2.565552,105m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x48718e3f34e9e2f1:0x144ad8ce51e1669c) it looks very much like old scrap points, and a few bits of rail.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on January 13, 2015, 04:20:01 pm
A 'heads up' for the newbie moderator FT,N !

From the Network Rail website:

Vegetation clearance is due to start at the beginning of February 2015 (date to be confirmed), to progress with civils enabling and infrastructure work.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on January 13, 2015, 09:10:06 pm
A 'heads up' for the newbie moderator FT,N !

From the Network Rail website:

Vegetation clearance is due to start at the beginning of February 2015 (date to be confirmed), to progress with civils enabling and infrastructure work.

Thank you, chuffed.

I had noticed that item, but have been too busy assimilating my new role to respond. (OK, in truth, it was Mrs FT,N!'s birthday, and I took her to the Metrolopse for a few days.) I shall keep my eyes peeled for anything noteworthy, and shall try to have a camera about me.

Having missed the drop-in info session in Easton in November (Mrs FT,N! again, this time Tenerife), I contacted NR by the medium of Twitter, and was told there would be another in January. So far, no news despite my asking. I have a few questions, none of them hostile.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on January 13, 2015, 09:12:58 pm
(OK, in truth, it was Mrs FT,N!'s birthday, and I took her to the Metrolopse for a few days.)

(snip)

(Mrs FT,N! again, this time Tenerife)

Should we have made Mrs FT,N! moderator me thinks - she is obviously much better at decision making!   ;D ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: coachflyer on January 14, 2015, 03:05:38 pm
Number of things noticed today.

At Stapleton Road there was a company boring soil test holes in the old track bed where the farm use to be.

White water filled barriers have been place up Filton bank from the access point by the Ford dealership up to Horfield Station

Also seen in a number of locations over the past few days have been a group taking pictures of the vegetation that needs clearing lineside.




Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on January 14, 2015, 09:43:47 pm

Should we have made Mrs FT,N! moderator me thinks - she is obviously much better at decision making!   ;D ;D

I wouldn't always regard her as moderate...

In any case, she has the standard view of trains, as being mystical but seeming to turn up reasonably close to time. On our recent sojourn (SWT to Waterloo up, FGW from PAD down), there were many times when she wondered how I knew so much detail about what was going on. All garnered from FGW Coffee Shop over the years!

I would have made the November drop-in but for my family. No sooner had I put the phone down from booking our apartment in Tenerife for the end of November / beginning of December than my youngest daughter rang to inform us she was expecting her second child at the end of November / beginning of December. Thankfully, I hadn't got around to booking flights, and the people in Tenerife couldn't have been more helpful in rearranging my week in the sun.

And on 30 November, I became Four Grandchildren, Now!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on January 15, 2015, 02:01:49 am
Congratulations Gramps!  :P ;) ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on January 15, 2015, 08:07:39 pm
Number of things noticed today.

At Stapleton Road there was a company boring soil test holes in the old track bed where the farm use to be.

White water filled barriers have been place up Filton bank from the access point by the Ford dealership up to Horfield Station

Also seen in a number of locations over the past few days have been a group taking pictures of the vegetation that needs clearing lineside.

Some sign of movement at last...and the electrification is getting closer day by day.




Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on January 15, 2015, 08:09:57 pm
Congratulations Gramps!  :P ;) ;D

and congrats from me too!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on February 17, 2015, 10:12:20 pm
I notice the Network Rail GWR Electrification page regarding the Bristol area is PR managing a delay in the Filton Bank vegetation clearing by repeatedly postponing the start dates "to be confirmed" by small increments until they can announce no more work until after the nesting season.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 17, 2015, 10:53:26 pm

White water filled barriers have been place up Filton bank from the access point by the Ford dealership up to Horfield Station


I only had the phone with me, but here are some pictures. Firstly, from the bridge at Lockleaze Road looking towards Temple Meads:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Filton%20and%20Horfield/20150217_131238_zpsiiiosck4.jpg)

This is the site preferred by many, myself included,  for the new Horfield Station, possible under Phase 2 of MetroRail West (or is it MetroWest Rail?). I do not think the orange jackets are involved in building a station just yet.

From the opposite side of the road, looking towards Filton, the row of white plastic is clearer to see:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Filton%20and%20Horfield/20150217_131142_zpsks3abxi8.jpg)

I don't recall how it looked recently, but it seems to me that at least some clearance work has taken place. Now, before the nesting season, is the right time, and I hope that johnnyw's opinion is a little overly-pessimistic. The bridge at Bonnington Walk, at the site of the former Horfield Station, is visible.

Speaking of which, here is the view from that bridge towards Temple Meads. The slew (or is it slue - I have seen both) of the track is clear.

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Filton%20and%20Horfield/20150217_131612_zpsw2nl1v1o.jpg)

Was that done at the time the third line from Abbey Wood was installed? There is room for two more lines easily. What are the wire cages for - just to hold rubbish?

Looking towards Abbey Wood from the same bridge:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Filton%20and%20Horfield/20150217_131649_zpswcr4zctj.jpg)

there is a wide open vista. I don't know if those electricity pylons are due for replacement as part of the refurb of the National Grid. What is clear that there is a source of supply to transformers for the 25KV OHLE, if it works that way.

I am looking forward to a ramping up of work in the summer. There is little point in cutting back the Beeching Forest* just to let it grow again, so I assume these parts will be a hive of activity**.

(*Not strictly accurate, but it does seem a good generic term for those bits of former railway left to grow naturally)
(** I don't want any bees harmed in the requadrification of this railway. Wasps are another matter, despite their clear place in the pollenation shenanigans)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: coachflyer on February 18, 2015, 12:23:34 am
There has been a lot of clearance done. You can easily see the boundary fence in places plus all the rubbish that the households along that streach have been throwing onto the railway land.

Quote
What are the wire cages for - just to hold rubbish?

They mark where the drains are presumably so that the workers don't fall into them!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on February 19, 2015, 12:09:53 am
Good pictures and it seems I was indeed a little pessimistic in my observation on delayed progress although I have only been recently keeping an eye on the Narroways to TM stretch. The Network Rail page on the subject still says "date to be confirmed" though. Perhaps someone should tell them!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 19, 2015, 08:32:18 pm
I have a "before and after" comparison, the older picture being taken in September 2012:

Before:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Filton%20and%20Horfield/Horfield2.jpg)

After:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Filton%20and%20Horfield/20150217_131621_zpsfgkqsafj.jpg)

Certainly enough room for another 10-foot.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on February 19, 2015, 08:54:11 pm
....and crikey you can see the signalling cable route again  :P ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on September 11, 2015, 08:53:24 pm
With the four tracking slowly beginning to take momentum (I hear work is starting on improvements needed on the Bonnington Walk Bridge) could it be likely that the work on the line above Narroways Junction will require some service diversions along the Severn Beach Line/Henbury Loop. The slew in the track that was created in the 1980's after the line was reduced from 4 tracks to 2 will need to be reversed to make space available again. This, along with the new tracks being laid, could mean the closure of the line for a while, or seriously reduced capacity. The SB Line has been used as a diversionary route in the past, could it happen again?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on September 12, 2015, 10:03:00 am
It could, although whether it will be used depends. I would think every effort will be made to keep disruption on the SVB line to a minimum. It is a much busier line than it was when the last two-week diversion happened to open the third track through  Abbey Wood. There are going to be a few crossovers built in, so it may be possible to do the work in stages over a few weekends, or at least get two lines in the proper place then do the rest with the railway running. The proposed fourth track through Filton Abbey Wood looks the toughest bit - that will need a bit of work on the actual structure of the station.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 05, 2015, 04:29:57 pm
Dave Wood from the RMTU who writes the "On Track" column for the Bristol Evening Post added an online article on Sept 28th which included mention of the Henbury Loop and Severn Beach Line being used as a diversionary route during 4 tracking, probably for the last time. On thing is for sure though. There is a visible increase in lineside activity between Narroways junction and Stapleton Road bridge now, including, by the look of it, some new access points being constructed.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on December 06, 2015, 04:01:10 pm
Has anyone published details when the new four tracked stretch will be in use, and what use will be made of it prior to MetroWest Phase 2, which is still a long way off.


   


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 06, 2015, 05:34:46 pm
I thought the justification was the additional service from Paddington to Temple Meads via Parkway


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on December 06, 2015, 06:50:32 pm
Has anyone published details when the new four tracked stretch will be in use, and what use will be made of it prior to MetroWest Phase 2, which is still a long way off. 

The last info and dates I could find were in the latest CP5 milestones plan: 

Quote
The scheme provides the infrastructure to support up to four additional train paths an hour in each direction between the two major stations in Bristol. As well as contributing to reducing end to end journey times for cross-country and Bristol ^ London Paddington services and the HLOS capacity metrics for both Bristol and London Paddington, it will provide the capability to keep train services operational when engineering works and asset maintenance are planned.

Milestones:

Milestone - Description - Date
GRIP 4 completion - Single option scope defined - October 2014
GRIP 6 start - Start on site - May 2015
GRIP 6 completion - Infrastructure ready for use - August 2017 - Regulated Output

Hendy's report doesn't give revised dates for Filton Bank, although confirming it remains within CP5, so we should check the next CP5 Milestones report when it comes out.

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 08, 2015, 05:17:27 pm
An interesting update on the progress in the Bristol area can be found here:
http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/12/04/the-focus-moves-to-bristol/


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on December 08, 2015, 05:29:04 pm
Interesting, though the comment about the work at Parson St is both irrelevant and inaccurate. It's a 2 track  railway at that point and the work is nothing to do with Metrowest or electrification, just the construction of a new road.

I also smiled at the comment that the increased space in the station would be used by local retailers. Yeah, right, it'll be the same national chains that are everywhere else. Am I right in thinking local retailers lost out in the rebuilding of Reading?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 08, 2015, 05:43:25 pm
Interesting, though the comment about the work at Parson St is both irrelevant and inaccurate. It's a 2 track  railway at that point and the work is nothing to do with Metrowest or electrification, just the construction of a new road.
I think its a 3 track railway there and isn't it supposed to go to 4 track for the Portishead reopening?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 08, 2015, 06:06:14 pm
This is the passage in question:

Quote

In addition, preparations for the construction of a new underbridge at Parsons Street are progressing. The new bridge is designed to carry the four tracks over a new four-lane highway. Temporary bridge spans are being constructed to enable pile foundations and abutments to be constructed ready to receive a new bridge deck which will be constructed alongside the formation and slid into place over the newly constructed abutments. This final phase will be completed over the Christmas period.


I'm not aware of any new 4-lane highway at Parson St. The South Bristol Link (a road, funded by an alleged public transport scheme which I think may have been discussed elsewhere on this forum) passes under the 2-track main line at Colliter's Brook, a way to the south.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on December 08, 2015, 07:23:44 pm
I'm not aware of any new 4-lane highway at Parson St. The South Bristol Link (a road, funded by an alleged public transport scheme which I think may have been discussed elsewhere on this forum) passes under the 2-track main line at Colliter's Brook, a way to the south.

The said alleged public transport scheme have called this structure the "Parson Street Underbridge" in their plans. That's odd, in that it's an underbridge from the railway's standpoint, not their road's. But it's not named according to railway practice, in that Parson Street is innocent of all underbridging activity at this location. A. E. Yates Trenchless Solutions Ltd., the contractors who have begun building it inside the embankment - clever stuff though that may be - think it is called Parsons Street.

You'd expect it to be called the railway overbridge, wouldn't you? It is the only one on the route. It will presumably end up being called Brookgate, after the road called Brook Gate. It's also much more west of Parson Street station than south.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 08, 2015, 11:02:34 pm

That's odd, in that it's an underbridge from the railway's standpoint


Maybe they are just reflecting the world-turned-upside-down mindset of people who build a ring-road and claim it's a public transport scheme.


It's also much more west of Parson Street station than south.


Isn't it, though!

In mitigation, my prejudice that the B&E runs south from Bristol over-rode the obvious fact that at that point it really is going kinda west (not to be confused with Kanye West, or even (and arguably more appositely) Knowle West)... if only those pesky Mendips hadn't got in the way.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on January 27, 2016, 10:10:14 pm
Having time on my hands, I remembered how the two disused platforms at Stapleton Road looked in September 2012:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Garden.jpg)

and decided to go take a butcher's, to see if there was any sign of actual work. This is how they looked today:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Stapleton%20Road/DSC_0362_zpsjfpiglmg.jpg)

If that is the new signalling, isn't it going to get in the way a bit?

This is, however, progress! That three span bridge beyond the fence has to be dismantled and rebuilt. Given the very urban nature of what is below it, I wondered if a temporary line would be laid to here, to allow for removal of the scrap by rail?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 01, 2016, 09:55:12 am
Had you noticed, F T, N!, that there is another of those kittens rampant in this post - and half the text refers to that picture, too.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 01, 2016, 11:34:14 am
Had you noticed, F T, N!, that there is another of those kittens rampant in this post - and half the text refers to that picture, too.


Grrr! That one IS down to Photobucket. Hopefully fixed.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 01, 2016, 12:43:51 pm
If that is the new signalling, isn't it going to get in the way a bit?

If you zoom right into Google Earth's captured view of this (dated 9/9/2014), then at the limit of its resolution there does appear to be such a box already at that position. (There's another in the bushes at the end of platform 2.) Quite why it would be there is not obvious, though it might have looked a suitable place to put a box at some time in the last 30 years - well out of the way, of course.
 


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 01, 2016, 02:53:45 pm
Looking again, I am sure that is the old signalling route - it was covered by plants until recently. It should be redundant soon, if not already.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Stroud Valleys on February 16, 2016, 09:53:11 am
travelled between parkway and temple meads for the first time in a couple of months, and what a difference. The vegetation has been cleared for most of the route, with old bits of station, platform, brickwork etc being exposed.

What are the plans for the new track now that space has been created for the track?

I've also noticed a large bridge get built between stapleton road and filton abbey road - is this an access road for vehicles to get to the railway?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 16, 2016, 09:59:22 am

I've also noticed a large bridge get built between stapleton road and filton abbey road - is this an access road for vehicles to get to the railway?


Hullo Stroud Valleys, and welcome!

I suspect the bridge you refer to is for the bus-only junction on the M32, which is part of the MetroBus scheme. This is not connected in any way with the improvements to Filton Bank.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 16, 2016, 11:05:20 am
...except that both are considered to be part of the larger MetroWest scheme (I think), but that in itself is so vague as to be pretty meaningless. So the bridge is certainly not directly connected to the railway.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 16, 2016, 07:15:46 pm
I passed through Stapleton Road station the other day, and took a few pictures to show the preparatory work:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Stapleton%20Road/DSC_0956_zpsziqbdmjj.jpg) (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/Boyamijealous/media/Stapleton%20Road/DSC_0956_zpsziqbdmjj.jpg.html)

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Stapleton%20Road/DSC_0952_zps4k3sj8x8.jpg) (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/Boyamijealous/media/Stapleton%20Road/DSC_0952_zps4k3sj8x8.jpg.html)

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Stapleton%20Road/DSC_0953_zpsmyarsrjk.jpg) (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/Boyamijealous/media/Stapleton%20Road/DSC_0953_zpsmyarsrjk.jpg.html)

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Stapleton%20Road/DSC_0957_zpsy1re3jcu.jpg) (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/Boyamijealous/media/Stapleton%20Road/DSC_0957_zpsy1re3jcu.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 16, 2016, 07:57:03 pm

I've also noticed a large bridge get built between stapleton road and filton abbey road - is this an access road for vehicles to get to the railway?


Hullo Stroud Valleys, and welcome!

I suspect the bridge you refer to is for the bus-only junction on the M32, which is part of the MetroBus scheme. This is not connected in any way with the improvements to Filton Bank.

Goodness only knows what I was thinking when I posted that - you'd have to have astonishingly good eyesight, coupled with an uncanny ability to see over the horizon and round  corners, to see the new M32 junction from the railway. Could it be that you saw the works shewn in FT, N!'s pictures?



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on February 16, 2016, 08:32:14 pm
There's a temporary scaffold bridge over the railway just to the south of the Easton Road overbridge. I say over the railway. It is actually only bridging the the part where there are no lines at present, but will be come four tracking. I think it might be there to give work access to the outside face of the parapet wall.

There are a couple of new vehicle access points between Filton Abbey Wood and Lawrence Hill. Can't say I've noticed what could be described as a new vehicular bridge though. But I've not really been staring out the window going up Filton Bank. My usual choice of service is the 0841 BRI-BPW and, as I join it from the 0832 arrival from Avonmouth (which is consistently 3+ minutes late), I never get a window seat. Usually dark whenever I coming down Filton Bank.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 16, 2016, 08:35:42 pm
My guess is that the area behind the white plastic markers will be used for vehicle and plant access during the replacement of the bridge (the last photo). It will then have tracks laid on it.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 16, 2016, 10:17:31 pm
I passed through Stapleton Road station the other day, and took a few pictures to show the preparatory work:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Stapleton%20Road/DSC_0957_zpsy1re3jcu.jpg) (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/Boyamijealous/media/Stapleton%20Road/DSC_0957_zpsy1re3jcu.jpg.html)
Is this bridge to be retained, do you know, or does it require replacement?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 16, 2016, 10:20:59 pm
It is to be replaced. That is going to be fun! Until July, I shall be working next to it, and shall watch with interest.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 17, 2016, 12:59:10 am
It is to be replaced.

Quite frankly, it may even have collapsed in the meantime.  ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 17, 2016, 09:24:05 am
In past jobs elsewhere in the country, the new bridge has been built alongside the site, then rolled into place. I'm not sure there is room here, with the M32 on one side and the station on the other side. Given that the road was closed for nearly 2 weeks for the pointing and truss rod work to the stone bridge, I have a feeling that there will be another closure to allow for craning of the main component parts. I had hoped to see a temporary line from Dr Days junction for removal of scrap and delivery of new components, track, ballast etc.

Easton Road bridge, taking the road over the railway, is the next major structure towards Temple Meads. That is to be replaced. The road is now closed until 8 April. A temporary bridge is being constructed to carry pedestrians and utilities. I believe the bridge will then be demolished and the new deck beams put into place during a late May Bank Holiday 76 hour possession, with work then continuing until early 2017. Details are in Network Rail's City of Bristol information page. (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/great-western-route-modernisation/city-of-bristol/) The February newsletter (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Bristol-newsletter-Feb-2016.pdf) gives more information, as does the letter to residents (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/GWRM-Easton-Road-Bridge-Letter.pdf).

The new four-tracked railway will not be electrified when it first opens, but provision is obviously going to be made to make that part as easy as possible.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 17, 2016, 09:37:07 am
From FT,N!'s pictures, it looks like they are levelling a largish area adjacent to the gas facility immediately to the north-west of the M32. Would it be reasonable to assume that the new bridge will largely be assembled there, and then slid into place? Sounds easy if you say it quickly...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on February 17, 2016, 09:40:02 am

Easton Road bridge, taking the road over the railway, is the next major structure towards Temple Meads. That is to be replaced. The road is now closed until 8 April. A temporary bridge is being constructed to carry pedestrians and utilities. I believe the bridge will then be demolished and the new deck beams put into place during a late May Bank Holiday 76 hour possession, with work then continuing until early 2017. Details are in Network Rail's City of Bristol information page. (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/great-western-route-modernisation/city-of-bristol/) The February newsletter (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Bristol-newsletter-Feb-2016.pdf) gives more information, as does the letter to residents (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/GWRM-Easton-Road-Bridge-Letter.pdf).

Thanks for that information on the Easton Rd over bridge. I was merely guessing about the reason for the adjacent scaffold bridge. I guess this will be extended over the operational railway imminently.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: anthony215 on February 17, 2016, 09:50:28 am
Looks like things could be fun over the next  12 months or so on the M32.  Be glad when the roadworks are done sick to death of my coach being delayed when I drive along that stretch.

gonna be fun tonight since I am coming into Bristol around 1815.

Anyway like many of us I will be glad to see the 4 tracking done down Filton Bank it cant come soon enough and should help sort out reliability of services


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 17, 2016, 11:30:41 am
Looks like things could be fun over the next  12 months or so on the M32.  Be glad when the roadworks are done sick to death of my coach being delayed when I drive along that stretch.

gonna be fun tonight since I am coming into Bristol around 1815.

Anyway like many of us I will be glad to see the 4 tracking done down Filton Bank it cant come soon enough and should help sort out reliability of services

Those roadworks are for the stupid MetroBust. I don't think the four-tracking work will impact on the M32. The bridge over that is OK, with maybe a lick of paint.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: anthony215 on February 17, 2016, 11:59:09 am
I am sure we will all be glad to see the 4 tracks being used and better rail services


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 17, 2016, 12:49:27 pm
I am sure we will all be glad to see the 4 tracks being used and better rail services

I certainly will, but you knew that already.

This really is the key to all the other planned improvements. Filton Abbey Wood and Parkway will both gain a platform. Parallel moves out of Parkway for Bristol and South Wales will be possible, and there will be room for stopping services from Cardiff, Henbury and Severn Beach, providing a decent coverage of the local stations.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Oberon on February 17, 2016, 04:04:27 pm
It is to be replaced


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on February 21, 2016, 08:49:48 am
Has anyone seen plans for upgrading Filton Abbey Wood.  Is that to be tracks?  How many Platforms?



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on February 21, 2016, 10:34:04 am
Has anyone seen plans for upgrading Filton Abbey Wood.  Is that to be tracks?  How many Platforms?


No track drawings that I have found, but the latest description still refers to an additional platform there.  That implies four tracking all the way from Dr Days Jn to just north of Filton Abbey Wood where presumably the four tracking becomes two pairs, one towards Bristol Parkway, and the other towards Patchway?

Paul



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 21, 2016, 08:04:57 pm
My reading of the situation too, paul7755. That would mean a split at Abbey Wood, with two platforms for Wales and two for Parkway and beyond, if that was the best way of running things.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 21, 2016, 08:49:58 pm
The last (and first) time the line was made up from two to four tracks, less than 100 years ago, Filton Junction station already had four platforms. That had been done when the junction at Filton, and the line from Westerleigh to Avonmouth, were built not long before the WW1. The line was evidently operated as two pairs not just at Filton but after that down into Bristol too. Whether that sheds any light on what is the preferred design now is another matter altogether.

PS: I see that the West Loop (SW chord) was also double track, but the NW chord was an embankment with no track until well after WW2.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Stroud Valleys on February 22, 2016, 02:50:29 pm
Are there any diagrams/drawings of the proposed plans by Networking Rail for the four track, especially arrangements at Filton Abbey Wood and the Bristol Temple Mead ends?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 22, 2016, 09:27:14 pm
This You tube video (https://youtu.be/2jUYViwle1c) gives a good overview of what is to be repaired and what is to be replaced, although probably not what you are truly looking for.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 22, 2016, 11:42:50 pm
I think it does show what the track layout is, though I think in reality the cross-overs are likely to span all four tracks. The main difference from before is that the tracks on the London side are fast - no platforms, where before all stations had platforms on all tracks. The crossovers are different, being single instead of two parallel tracks, but that's just fashion. And of course there were more stations, and Filton Junction was well north of Filton Abbey Wood (it was north of the main junction).

Incidentally, the map on "Know Your Place - Bristol" that's described as "1949 1:2500" is really a 1918 (1912 survey) edition that didn't have four tracks all the way, hand modified in the planning office - but the drawn-on tracks have rubbed off. The 1946 aerial photo shows that, though it is a bit too fuzzy to show the detail.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 23, 2016, 08:28:20 am
Don't forget that the layout will be augmented by the maintenance depot. What is being put in will be more than was taken out.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 23, 2016, 09:46:16 am
Incidentally, the map on "Know Your Place - Bristol" that's described as "1949 1:2500" is really a 1918 (1912 survey) edition that didn't have four tracks all the way, hand modified in the planning office - but the drawn-on tracks have rubbed off. The 1946 aerial photo shows that, though it is a bit too fuzzy to show the detail.

I was wrong about that - the relevant map was (before having planning stuff put onto it) the 1934/5 revision, so all four tracks were on it. An explanation as to why two of them have faded at Ashley Vale, but the original two haven't, must lie elsewhere.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 23, 2016, 10:09:24 am
Maybe contact the Know Your Place people about that?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 23, 2016, 10:31:49 am
Maybe contact the Know Your Place people about that?

I'm not suggesting it's wrongly labelled. It is plainly an office copy with planning data added, so if it was in use up to 1949 the title "1949 1:2500" is hardly incorrect. It is certainly brief, and I can't see any more explanation of what the map is, though I expect it is somewhere (perhaps in a library index).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 23, 2016, 08:54:49 pm
Ok.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on February 27, 2016, 05:59:52 pm
Any idea when Bristol Parkway and Filton Abbeywood will get their extra platforms?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on February 28, 2016, 12:26:23 am
simonw, I've been wondering about that for ages. From what I've heard, with all the newly announced delays,  nobody actually has a clue. Expectation management in full silence here.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 28, 2016, 09:28:20 am
I believe "mid-2017" to be an answer. Whether it is a correct answer is another matter, of course. Filton Abbey Wood was not really left future-proofed when the third platform was built:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Filton%20and%20Horfield/AbbeyWood2.jpg)

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Filton%20and%20Horfield/AbbeyWood4.jpg)

This bridge will need moving slightly to one side:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Filton%20and%20Horfield/AbbeyWood5.jpg)

Another 2-week possession in the offing?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on February 28, 2016, 11:24:09 am
At BPW yesterday I was speaking to a member of staff, and was told that surveyors have been on site from a number of civil engineering companies.

Whether this was for the new platform, or more parking I have no idea. I was wondering if any announcements had been made.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 28, 2016, 12:18:08 pm
At BPW yesterday I was speaking to a member of staff, and was told that surveyors have been on site from a number of civil engineering companies.

Whether this was for the new platform, or more parking I have no idea. I was wondering if any announcements had been made.

Certainly, the announcement of the new platform has been made, and I believe it survived the recent review. It is necessary to allow parallel movements into and out of BPW. I can't see car parking provision being increased so soon after the construction of the multi-storey.

A shame I don't pass overhead BPW these days.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 28, 2016, 12:56:15 pm
I believe "mid-2017" to be an answer. Whether it is a correct answer is another matter, of course. Filton Abbey Wood was not really left future-proofed when the third platform was built:
This bridge will need moving slightly to one side:

Why? The new platform 4 and its track will be to the west of the existing, and while that has to be slewed north and south of the station I don't think it can be moved much within the station. The platform edge has to be at least 2.5 m clear of the footbridge structure, which I suspect is more demanding than the bases in the picture.

Of course there is a problem, since this isn't a case of putting back what was stripped out before - both earlier Filton stations were well to the north. Assuming the edge of platform 3 stays where it is, space has to be found for two tracks plus spacing plus offsets (3.4+1.43+2x.73=6.3m) plus 2.5 m means 8.8 m to any kind of structure. That's still well clear of the footbridge, so provided its bases hidden in the bushes aren't too big it should be OK, if it's already railway land (which seems likely).

And there's even some pretty (and moving) artist's pictures of it here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFuvX1A1O1g).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on February 28, 2016, 01:11:47 pm
And there's even some pretty (and moving) artist's pictures of it here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFuvX1A1O1g).

Ahh! you mean moving in that sense of the word.  Yes is does seem to be relatively straightforward.  Even if actual construction does not go quite as smoothly as in the video.   


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on February 28, 2016, 01:17:54 pm
I believe BPW car parking is regularly full, and the design of the carpark was to allow extra 'decks' when needed. Also the advent of MetroBus(t) will make BPW a transport hub and will require extra parking.

So not sure what will arrive first, a few hundred extra parking spaces, a new platform and when these will happen.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 28, 2016, 02:00:26 pm
I believe BPW car parking is regularly full, and the design of the carpark was to allow extra 'decks' when needed. Also the advent of MetroBus(t) will make BPW a transport hub and will require extra parking.

So not sure what will arrive first, a few hundred extra parking spaces, a new platform and when these will happen.

Presumably MetroBus is notionally intended to reduce the demand for parking at Parkway, rather than increase it?

However I wouldn't be surprised if South Dibley were to put forward plans to increase parking in that area... they seem fairly determined to turn their little part of the world into some sort of 'Los Angeles without the weather'.

Edit: typo


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 28, 2016, 02:06:29 pm
And there's even some pretty (and moving) artist's pictures of it here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFuvX1A1O1g).

Ahh! you mean moving in that sense of the word. 

Yes, I do - though it did occur to me that the other sense might be apt, for those forum members who have an emotional attachment to this project. 


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on February 28, 2016, 02:06:59 pm
That's still well clear of the footbridge, so provided its bases hidden in the bushes aren't too big it should be OK, if it's already railway land (which seems likely).

And there's even some pretty (and moving) artist's pictures of it here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFuvX1A1O1g).

Building the fourth platform off to the side (and slightly lengthening the existing island at the south end), is also illustrated in the video linked to by Four Track, Now! himself, back in reply #120, on 22nd Feb.

Don't see any problems, that's two bits of evidence supporting a simple side platform...

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 28, 2016, 02:26:12 pm
At BPW yesterday I was speaking to a member of staff, and was told that surveyors have been on site from a number of civil engineering companies.

Whether this was for the new platform, or more parking I have no idea. I was wondering if any announcements had been made.

Certainly, the announcement of the new platform has been made, and I believe it survived the recent review. It is necessary to allow parallel movements into and out of BPW. I can't see car parking provision being increased so soon after the construction of the multi-storey.

A shame I don't pass overhead BPW these days.

What Hendy's version of the CP5 Infrastructure Plans says about BPW (in W002b) is as follows.
Objective:
Quote
At Bristol Parkway station deliver infrastructure to enable:
* 2 new London to Bristol Temple Meads via Parkway services each hour in each direction from December 2018
* Improved operational flexibility, over the base May 2016 layout, sufficient to allow ECS moves to and from the new Hitachi Train care facility at Stoke Gifford
* Parallel moves from Bristol Parkway towards Filton (from platform 1) and South Wales (from platform 2)
Scope of works:
Quote
At Bristol Parkway station deliver the following infrastructure:
* An additional platform face, signalling and track works
* Additional bi-directional signalling between Filton Abbey Wood and Bristol Parkway
* Additional bi-directional signalling between Patchway and Bristol Parkway
* Additional bi-directional signalling between Patchway and Severn Tunnel Junction
* Provision of direct access to Stoke Gifford Yard in the up direction
Timescale:
Quote
Bristol Parkway 4th platform - EIS ^ Infrastructure authorised
Infrastructure ready for use for driver training/testing
November 2018
Regulated Output

With no date given for use by trains in service.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 29, 2016, 09:38:00 am

Building the fourth platform off to the side (and slightly lengthening the existing island at the south end), is also illustrated in the video linked to by Four Track, Now! himself, back in reply #120, on 22nd Feb.

Don't see any problems, that's two bits of evidence supporting a simple side platform...

Paul

OK, hands up, that was a bit lazy of me! I have two young grandchildren at my home, without parents, so relied on memory rather than proper research. That said, I reckon the bridge at FIT will need a little more work than the one at SRD, although the latter will still need disabled access.


Presumably MetroBus is notionally intended to reduce the demand for parking at Parkway, rather than increase it?


MetroBust is intended to do a lot of things it won't do. Ordinary buses are already capable of transporting people to BPW from the surrounding residential areas, but the price of car parking hasn't yet persuaded them to leave the motor at home. MetroBust is just another bus in that part of the world.

You illustrate a conundrum, however. It seems to me that MetroBust can never be integrated fully into local public transport, as originally promised in the glossy leaflets. If cross-modal go-anywhere tickets were available, it would transport a bus load from Patchway towards Bristol, but empty at BPW whilst everyone jumps on a train. Who wants to spend half an hour on the M32 when a 12-minute train ride will get you to work?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 29, 2016, 10:51:41 am
Now that South Gloucestershire have taken their planning portal out of the cupboard it's kept in over the weekend and wound up the clockwork, I can see that there have been no applications for the expected work at either FIT or BPW.

That presumably means that the works will be permitted development - just railway stuff, such as platforms, tracks, earthworks, signals (not on gantries), but no building, bridge, aqueduct, pier or dam  nor any access road.

There was an application for a temporary car park to replace the spaces at BPW used for the works, but that was withdrawn. There's also an entry for the original building of BPW, but that's only a scanned copy of a sketchy plan.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on April 29, 2016, 11:14:45 am
Seeing all the four track improvements proceeding, it left me wondering what is planned for BPW?

There are only two tracks entering the station, and frequently trains have to wait to allow other trains to access the station track.

Not being a train buff, how could NR improve the flow into BPW, and what is planned?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on April 29, 2016, 11:58:51 am
Seeing all the four track improvements proceeding, it left me wondering what is planned for BPW?

There are only two tracks entering the station, and frequently trains have to wait to allow other trains to access the station track.

Not being a train buff, how could NR improve the flow into BPW, and what is planned?

Oh dear. Someone else whose memory is going the same way as mine. Way back in, er, February we covered that in this thread, and your question was answered, in a fashion (BR's fashion).

Quote
What Hendy's version of the CP5 Infrastructure Plans says about BPW (in W002b) is as follows.
Objective:
Quote
At Bristol Parkway station deliver infrastructure to enable:
* 2 new London to Bristol Temple Meads via Parkway services each hour in each direction from December 2018
* Improved operational flexibility, over the base May 2016 layout, sufficient to allow ECS moves to and from the new Hitachi Train care facility at Stoke Gifford
* Parallel moves from Bristol Parkway towards Filton (from platform 1) and South Wales (from platform 2)
Scope of works:
Quote
At Bristol Parkway station deliver the following infrastructure:
* An additional platform face, signalling and track works
* Additional bi-directional signalling between Filton Abbey Wood and Bristol Parkway
* Additional bi-directional signalling between Patchway and Bristol Parkway
* Additional bi-directional signalling between Patchway and Severn Tunnel Junction
* Provision of direct access to Stoke Gifford Yard in the up direction


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on May 27, 2016, 12:54:36 pm
Passing Stapleton Road yesterday I noticed a number of concrete caisson type of objects being stored on the old trackbed. They are not all identical but they are quite substantial. Sorry no pics, I was quite unprepared. Anyone know what they are for?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on May 27, 2016, 01:18:50 pm
I saw them as well, along with three huge pieces of pre-fabricated bridge on the road behind Bristol Parkway.

I think Network Rail have a busy weekend ahead of them!

I hope all is ok Tuesday morning.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on May 27, 2016, 02:50:49 pm
I've decamped to Taunton this weekend. No desire to experience the delights of 'Rail Replacement Bus' on my local line.

Welcome the reason for the RRBs obviously.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on May 29, 2016, 06:10:30 pm
I saw them as well, along with three huge pieces of pre-fabricated bridge on the road behind Bristol Parkway.

I think Network Rail have a busy weekend ahead of them!

I hope all is ok Tuesday morning.

They are the beams for Easton Road bridge replacement.  The old bridge is being demolished and the new beams places in position this weekend. All should be finished by 04:00 on the 31st May according to NR latter to residents!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on May 31, 2016, 04:44:28 pm
I took the train to SRD from BRI today. I had forgotten about that work, but there was plenty of evidence of a busy weekend, with lots of diggers etc.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on October 12, 2016, 01:06:28 pm
Over the past few days, I have seen lots of activity (workers, pipes, vans and heavy equipment) near the rail track in the Filton area.

Is there a published outline of the project anywhere of the expected date when this work will be completed and when traffic will be segregated between stopping and trunk services?

All I can find is reference to CP5, which means completion by 2019.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on October 12, 2016, 02:03:28 pm
According to the latest CP 5 milestones:

Infrastructure ready for use (not electrified) - December 2018
First timetabled public use of the infrastructure - December 2018

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on October 12, 2016, 03:39:00 pm
So, the end of CP5!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on October 12, 2016, 04:04:27 pm
So, the end of CP5!
But only if Dec 18 is considered the same as March 2019...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 14, 2017, 04:24:45 pm
I had a few spare minutes today, so I thought I would go take a look at the railway, and see if there is any sign of work on the four tracking. And there was! It wasn't easy to photograph at Bonnington Walk because of the enhanced bridge for the electrification that isn't coming:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/DSC_2418_zpskns2medp.jpg)

Looking towards Filton Abbey Wood:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/DSC_2415_zpsq6dotcx4.jpg)

Looking towards Temple Meads, it seems that the northbound platform of what was Horfield station has gone, although the southbound remains:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/DSC_2417_zps2adxnzvy.jpg)

There is now a cycle and pedestrian pathway:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/DSC_2419_zpszeaywhbt.jpg)

Looking north from Constable Road, the clearance work is obvious:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/DSC_2422_zpsbh6pplf8.jpg)

A crafty change of lens to the 75-300 mm gives us more of an insight into what is happening:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/DSC_2424_zpsdf5iu3aq.jpg)

Looking the opposite way, towards Ashley Down, the access road can be seen:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/DSC_2420_zpsfrrsnajw.jpg)

More orange army in the distance:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/DSC_2421_zpszwgyf68p.jpg)

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/DSC_2428_zpsmuseftri.jpg)

Finally for today, I am on the site of the former Ashley Down station, where work progresses. Looking north:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/DSC_2430_zpstqsoyrv6.jpg)

and south, towards Narroways:

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/DSC_2434_zpsqzwsxjfy.jpg)

In short, it looks like things are happening. Four Track, Soon!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on March 14, 2017, 04:37:06 pm
And well done to Four Track soon to be completed for keeping us all up to speed and up to date. I can hardly wait for the day when he calls himself Four Track Finished, And I Told You It Was Gonna Happen, And You Didn't Believe Me.....


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 14, 2017, 04:45:33 pm
Yes, thanks for the photos. Is the cutting between Bonnington Walk and FAW actually steeper than it used to be or does it just look that way without the vegetation and rubbish? By the way, there always a cycle/pedestrian path in both directions from Bonnington Walk (ie to FAW and to Constable Rd). It's part of what they call the Concorde Way. They might well have altered it though. Oh, and in the 8th and 9th photos, looking south from Constable Rd, is that the remains of the old footbridge visible?

And well done to Four Track soon to be completed for keeping us all up to speed and up to date. I can hardly wait tof the day when he calls himself Four Track Finished, And I Told You It Was Gonna Happen, And You Didn't Believe Me.....

:D Or maybe even Four Track Now and I'm Happy!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on March 14, 2017, 04:57:43 pm
Happy ?? He be as ****** as a newt. Oooops, perhaps I shouldn't mention them ! Me, and my big mouth..... ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 14, 2017, 06:25:21 pm
Yes, thanks for the photos. Is the cutting between Bonnington Walk and FAW actually steeper than it used to be or does it just look that way without the vegetation and rubbish?

I think it has been cut back to pre-1984 levels, which always looks severe.

Quote
By the way, there always a cycle/pedestrian path in both directions from Bonnington Walk (ie to FAW and to Constable Rd). It's part of what they call the Concorde Way. They might well have altered it though.

They have.

Quote
Oh, and in the 8th and 9th photos, looking south from Constable Rd, is that the remains of the old footbridge visible?

I didn't know there was a bridge there!

And well done to Four Track soon to be completed for keeping us all up to speed and up to date. I can hardly wait for the day when he calls himself Four Track Finished, And I Told You It Was Gonna Happen, And You Didn't Believe Me.....

Quote
:D Or maybe even Four Track Now and I'm Happy!

I might just change it to Tony. Until there are four shiny tracks along there, though, the nom de guerre will remain as the handle.

Happy ?? He be as ****** as a newt. Oooops, perhaps I shouldn't mention them ! Me, and my big mouth..... ::)

Steady now! Just coming out with the N-word like that - there's no call for that.

Cheers!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on March 14, 2017, 06:30:01 pm
As it happens I went to Station Rd Ashley Down this lunchtime to have a look see myself.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 14, 2017, 07:30:10 pm
As it happens I went to Station Rd Ashley Down this lunchtime to have a look see myself.

Exactly where I was at 2.45 pm. Blast - we could have gone for a pint!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on March 14, 2017, 07:31:51 pm
As it happens I went to Station Rd Ashley Down this lunchtime to have a look see myself.

Exactly where I was at 2.45 pm. Blast - we could have gone for a pint!
Are you sure you're not the same person?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 14, 2017, 08:38:11 pm
Are you sure you're not the same person?

I hadn't thought of that. I could have had that pint!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Noggin on March 14, 2017, 08:46:21 pm
Thank you, you can see quite what a serious bit of engineering it is, far more than just cutting back a few bushes and spreading a bit of gravel ;-)

I believe that work is due to start on the replacement Stapleton Road bridge in the next few weeks.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on March 14, 2017, 08:55:31 pm
As it happens I went to Station Rd Ashley Down this lunchtime to have a look see myself.

Exactly where I was at 2.45 pm. Blast - we could have gone for a pint!

Maybe next time let me know  :D.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 14, 2017, 10:17:53 pm
Thank you, you can see quite what a serious bit of engineering it is, far more than just cutting back a few bushes and spreading a bit of gravel ;-)
Indeed!

Quote
I believe that work is due to start on the replacement Stapleton Road bridge in the next few weeks.

I ran out of time today, or I would have taken a look. I worked across the road from there, but left in June last year, so I don't see it daily as I used to. I did notice that the ballast has been largely cleared off the knackered bridge last week when I passed through on the train. I might try to take a look in the next few days.

Sugar Loaf?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on March 14, 2017, 10:38:33 pm
Last time I was in the Loaf was twenty or more years ago what's it like these days ?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 14, 2017, 10:48:11 pm
See http://www.sugarloafpub.co.uk/  ;)



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 14, 2017, 10:51:27 pm
I have only been there twice, the second occasion being my retirement. It sells beer, so it's fine.

See http://www.sugarloafpub.co.uk/  ;)

No idea what the gallery is all about. I don't recall seeing anyone that good looking there, at least not until my third pint.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 20, 2017, 04:04:43 pm
Observed the new look cutting from train level on Saturday, it's quite impressive. And later I even cycled along the realigned cycle path. It's been moved from the rugby club's drive to running along the embankment edge, presumably because the playing fields are being built over. From the cyclist's pov. this realignment is not a good thing, mainly because visibility of the road is limited by the bridge parapet. But the track work is coming along nicely.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 20, 2017, 09:55:35 pm
That bridge parapet is a bit urgent following the addition of extra courses of bricks and coping stones. Given the electrification won't pass under them for a while, it seems a bit OTT, in more ways than one.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 30, 2017, 01:18:36 pm
Been out for a bit of exercise this morning, and took a few photos:

1. Site of Ashley Hill station, looking towards Narroways. This is clearly a major access point for the works:

(https://zemblanity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/20170330_090920-e1490875847113.jpg)

2. North of Stapleton Rd viaduct, beside M32 looking towards the viaduct. Even I got the message!

(https://zemblanity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/20170330_095826-e1490875831678.jpg)

3. Under the viaduct. Something's afoot...

(https://zemblanity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/20170330_100054-e1490875805343.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 02, 2017, 05:27:10 pm
That's a long closure! Nice update, Red Squirrel.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on July 24, 2017, 03:42:10 pm
Stapleton Road viaduct is to come down this week, it seems! The Bristol Post (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/stapleton-road-close-entire-weekend-228574) reports:

Quote
Stapleton Road to close for the entire weekend as viaduct is demolished
‘Unavoidably noisy’ work is due to start on Monday (July 24)

(http://i1.bristolpost.co.uk/incoming/article228582.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/Stapleton-Road-viaduct.png)
Photo by Network Rail

Work to knock down the bridge will start on Monday (July 24) and will last until the first day of September.

The busy street will be closed to both traffic and pedestrians from 9pm next Friday (July 28) until 6am on Monday (July 31).

Kate Trevorrow from Network Rail said: “I’d like to thank residents in the Stapleton Road area for their patience as we undertake this work as part of our Railway Upgrade Plan.

“This work is unavoidably noisy, but residents should be assured that our engineers will do all they can to keep this noise to a minimum.

“Residents that may be affected by this have been notified of this work and we’ve also held public information events in the area which have been widely publicised.

“The replacement of the Stapleton Road viaduct is a crucial part of our project to double the number of lines between Bristol Temple Meads and Filton Abbey Wood station. It will play its part in enabling more frequent and reliable services to operate in the area, delivering a better railway for Bristol and beyond.”

Network Rail said the viaduct is being replaced because of growth in passenger numbers in Bristol.

The number of trains will be doubling the number of rails lines from two to four to enable train services to be increased.

During the weekend road closure diversion signs will be put in place.

The footpath and access ramp from Stapleton Road to platform two of Stapleton Road Station will be closed on that weekend.


Platform two will only be accessible from the St Mark’s Road entrance, next to the Sugar Loaf Pub, or by using the platform one footbridge.

Network Rail’s 24 hour national helpline is available on 03457 11 41 41 for residents with any questions or concerns about this work.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on July 24, 2017, 07:23:13 pm
From what I have read it looks like full removal will take rather more than a week. Look how long it took for the Temple Meads conveyor bridge, more than a month there I seem to remember. It surely has to be cut up into removable bits although with the trackside access I suppose you can haul away bigger chunks than at Temple Meads.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on July 24, 2017, 08:43:45 pm
From what I have read it looks like full removal will take rather more than a week. Look how long it took for the Temple Meads conveyor bridge, more than a month there I seem to remember. It surely has to be cut up into removable bits although with the trackside access I suppose you can haul away bigger chunks than at Temple Meads.

Mumps Bridge in Oldham came down practically overnight. The decking was removed, then the road closed to allow a couple of big diggers and a crane in. They held one side of the bridge at a time whilst men in orange attacked it with disc cutters. The pieces were moved to the side of the road to be cut up. I don't think Stapleton Road will be any trickier - although it still has a railway running alongside, which Mumps did not.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on July 24, 2017, 09:52:24 pm
Blimey, that's a bit impressive. If only other Network Rail works were that quick. That would mean 4 track next month!😀


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on July 24, 2017, 10:33:44 pm
Blimey, that's a bit impressive. If only other Network Rail works were that quick. That would mean 4 track next month!😀

I want Four Track, Now! :)

In fairness, it was all, like my signature paella, in the preppy uppy.

See it here on Youtube (https://youtu.be/ljpJJ9kJn_k) (the bridge, not the paella).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on July 26, 2017, 08:34:09 pm
There is plant in place on what was platforms 3 and 4 at Stapleton Road station. I only had the phone with me:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4325/36050831261_3f88eabb89_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WVFW9e) (https://flic.kr/p/WVFW9e)

The picture taken, I came over all thirsty all of a sudden, and went to the Sugar Lumps for one of them pints. Otter, as it happened. :cheers:


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 28, 2017, 06:11:51 pm
Went down for a final look at Stapleton Road Viaduct, which is due for demolition on the weekend of 29/30 July 2017. Here's what I saw:

Looking west from Stapleton Road towards M32; note temporary blue supports underneath. It appears that the spans are to be cut up rather than removed complete, so these supports will retain the stubs. The original stone viaduct, which is still in use, can be seen behind. It looks like it is overdue the attention of NR's Gardening Dept.
(https://zemblanity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/20170728_153656-e1501261055435.jpg)

Looking north, taken from beneath the stone viaduct. The stacks of sleepers will presumably be laid on the roadway during the closure.
(https://zemblanity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/20170728_153803-e1501261006449.jpg)

Poster indicating method of demolition:
(https://zemblanity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/20170728_153037-e1501261038950.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 30, 2017, 01:10:52 pm
Sunday update: First photo is taken from the same spot as Friday's. One complete span has gone, and the next is well on its way!

(https://zemblanity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/20170730_121249-e1501416222505.jpg)

I couldn't get the reverse angle because my viewpoint was in the exclusion zone.

This image shows the newly-exposed abutment adjoining Stapleton Road Station:

(https://zemblanity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/20170730_121438-e1501416208979.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 30, 2017, 08:25:50 pm
Did you take that today (Sunday?) Cos I went past it about 9 p.m. on Saturday and it looked almost exactly the same, apart from being floodlit.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 30, 2017, 08:26:23 pm
I managed to embarrass the kids by popping up on the local news doing a vox pop. A slight paraphrase of my observations appears on on the ITV website (http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2017-07-30/bristol-bids-goodbye-to-victorian-viaduct/)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 30, 2017, 08:28:35 pm
Did you take that today (Sunday?) Cos I went past it about 9 p.m. on Saturday and it looked almost exactly the same, apart from being floodlit.

Yes; about 12.15pm.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on July 31, 2017, 12:04:52 am
Nice pictures, Red Squirrel! I'm glad you recorded it - I was in Devon over the weekend. Then (confession time) I was at my son's place in Fishponds today (Sunday) afternoon, and simply forgot to take a butcher's.

Until a year and nineteen days ago, I "worked" across the road from that bridge. Had the project been on time, I could have lunch minute taking pictures of the preparation, while munching on my delicious samosas from Jeevon or my felafel from Sweetmart (others are available). That's the main thing I miss about work, apart from my afternoon nap.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on July 31, 2017, 12:39:28 am
I managed to embarrass the kids by popping up on the local news doing a vox pop. A slight paraphrase of my observations appears on on the ITV website (http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2017-07-30/bristol-bids-goodbye-to-victorian-viaduct/)

Crikey. ITV are still using Flash for online video content. Unable to watch on my phone or tablet.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on July 31, 2017, 01:15:20 am
I managed to embarrass the kids by popping up on the local news doing a vox pop. A slight paraphrase of my observations appears on on the ITV website (http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2017-07-30/bristol-bids-goodbye-to-victorian-viaduct/)

Crikey. ITV are still using Flash for online video content. Unable to watch on my phone or tablet.

Silverlight seems to have gone into deep freeze too. Still, I don't have your skills. Let me know the solution.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 31, 2017, 12:24:54 pm
Yeah, I only see " local businessman Jadtar Singh Kandola" and then an absence of flash message. Is that Red Squirrel?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on July 31, 2017, 07:15:24 pm
Yeah, I only see " local businessman Jadtar Singh Kandola" and then an absence of flash message. Is that Red Squirrel?

Red Squirrel wasn't wearing a turban when I saw him last...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on August 01, 2017, 12:25:14 am
Anyone else, ever get sikh of these terrible puns ? ???

I rather liked the headline in the Metro this morning referring to the end of the 3rd test. Three men went to Mo.......


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 15, 2017, 08:31:14 pm
Swung by Stapleton Road viaduct again today (15th Aug 2017): There it was, gone!

(https://zemblanity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/20170815_154242-e1502825154467.jpg)

This time I was able to get the reverse angle again, though you'd be forgiven if you said there's not much to see:

(https://zemblanity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/20170815_154336-e1502825136136.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: BerkshireBugsy on August 16, 2017, 10:56:10 am
I can't google at the moment but I'm sure when I was courting Wife V0.1 (she was still in beta) in the late 1970s it was 4 track then? Would that have been right?

Until recently (last week) I travelled through Filton Abbey Wood station and there seems to be quite a lot of work going on particularly north of the station as you approach the junction with South Wales line.

I expect to be back there in about 4 weeks so look forward to seeing the progress.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on August 16, 2017, 11:11:49 am
You're correct, BB, it was dequadrified in February 84.  I remember once in the early 80s coming from the Cardiff direction and running alongside a service from Birmingham most of the way into Temple Meads. 

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/bristol-tm-to-severn-beach.html

has some interesting photos on the line pre and post dequadrificatiol although note that one of the captions referring to it happening in 1971 is incorrect.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on August 16, 2017, 11:31:45 am
Does four tracking extend to BPW, or stop at Filton Abbeywood?

There is a lot of work between the two stations at the moment, extending the raised embankment closer to houses in Stoke Gifford so I assume it is being extended.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Louis94 on August 16, 2017, 11:57:08 am
Does four tracking extend to BPW, or stop at Filton Abbeywood?

There is a lot of work between the two stations at the moment, extending the raised embankment closer to houses in Stoke Gifford so I assume it is being extended.

No, the four tracking ends at Filton Abbey Wood.

The work you mention sounds like it could be to do with the new Down Bristol Parkway Relief Line.

The current Stoke Gifford Siding which is currently at the end of the Down Goods Loop (Later known as the Down Bristol Parkway Passenger Loop) will be extended a short distance towards Filton and become the Down Bristol Parkway Relief.

This change allows a departure towards Filton from Platform 1 and a departure towards Wales from Platform 2/3/4 to leave Bristol Parkway simultaneously.

The line speed of the new platform line and the relief line is 50mph throughout. Platform 1 is likely to become the main platform for services towards Bristol from Westerleigh. Anything towards Wales has to use a 15mph crossover, similarly to avoid this everything will likely use the Down Bristol Parkway Relief.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on August 16, 2017, 09:50:28 pm
There is also the proposed extra platform for Filton Abbey Wood, bringing it to Four Platforms, Now!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on August 16, 2017, 10:20:50 pm
There is also the proposed extra platform for Filton Abbey Wood, bringing it to Four Platforms, Now!

Chatting to 2 of the ticket staff at Abbey Wood late July I was told the work starts in Sept, although there seemed to be a real start already made as I went through there yesterday.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: BerkshireBugsy on August 17, 2017, 04:27:54 am
There is also the proposed extra platform for Filton Abbey Wood, bringing it to Four Platforms, Now!

I have wondered about fitting the extra platform in at Filton Abbey  Wood (FIT) because as I see it platform 2 and 3 (which is a single combined platform for those unfamiliar with the station ) is quite wide in my opinion.

I look forward to seeing the progress later in the year


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on August 17, 2017, 10:53:36 am
There is also the proposed extra platform for Filton Abbey Wood, bringing it to Four Platforms, Now!

I have wondered about fitting the extra platform in at Filton Abbey  Wood (FIT) because as I see it platform 2 and 3 (which is a single combined platform for those unfamiliar with the station ) is quite wide in my opinio
I look forward to seeing the progress later in the year

I was told the island platform would be narrowed a bit to make space for the new one.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: BerkshireBugsy on August 17, 2017, 12:16:27 pm
There is also the proposed extra platform for Filton Abbey Wood, bringing it to Four Platforms, Now!

I have wondered about fitting the extra platform in at Filton Abbey  Wood (FIT) because as I see it platform 2 and 3 (which is a single combined platform for those unfamiliar with the station ) is quite wide in my opinio
I look forward to seeing the progress later in the year

I was told the island platform would be narrowed a bit to make space for the new one.

That will be quite an exercise - those platforms can get quite busy at times.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on August 17, 2017, 12:37:43 pm
I have wondered about fitting the extra platform in at Filton Abbey  Wood (FIT) because as I see it platform 2 and 3 (which is a single combined platform for those unfamiliar with the station ) is quite wide in my opinion.

There was a video visualisation posted a while back in this thread:  https://youtu.be/VFuvX1A1O1g

Doesn't show any narrowing of the P2/P3 island.  The previous discussion about changes to FIT took place from about post 120 onwards...

Paul



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: BerkshireBugsy on August 17, 2017, 12:45:32 pm
I have wondered about fitting the extra platform in at Filton Abbey  Wood (FIT) because as I see it platform 2 and 3 (which is a single combined platform for those unfamiliar with the station ) is quite wide in my opinion.

There was a video visualisation posted a while back in this thread:  https://youtu.be/VFuvX1A1O1g

Doesn't show any narrowing of the P2/P3 island.  The previous discussion about changes to FIT took place from about post 120 onwards...

Paul



Thanks Paul -  I will have a view later.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on August 17, 2017, 10:48:53 pm
That will be quite an exercise - those platforms can get quite busy at times.

They will be quiet whilst the line is closed.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: BerkshireBugsy on August 18, 2017, 04:36:40 am
That will be quite an exercise - those platforms can get quite busy at times.

They will be quiet whilst the line is closed.

Yes I guess so :) but I would have thought that changing the platform width (and relaying the platform 3 track) was a substantial task


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on August 23, 2017, 08:19:41 pm
From memory, I think there will be no need to move the line on P3. The supporting structure for the footbridge will need amendment.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 09, 2017, 11:21:45 am
Network rail have posted one of their timelapse vids of the demolition of Stapleton Road viaduct:

Here it is, on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2E2v8PhzpE)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on September 09, 2017, 11:32:28 am
I thought the choice of the Russian dance  from the Nutcracker suite by Tchaikovsky was excellent. If only they could have constructed as quickly as they demolished, electrification would have been finished by now !


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on October 02, 2017, 09:29:16 pm
I thought the choice of the Russian dance  from the Nutcracker suite by Tchaikovsky was excellent. If only they could have constructed as quickly as they demolished, electrification would have been finished by now !

"Trepak" - played on the flute by a 12-year-old Four Track, Now! as part of a pretty rubbish school orchestra. I did better with Jethro Tull.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 16, 2017, 09:41:38 pm
Just now on Channel 5's Paddington 24/7, the demolition of the old Stapleton Road bridge.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 20, 2017, 05:53:19 pm
Came upon this whilst walking the dog yesterday at Narroways. Note the deluxe viewing gallery, presumably laid on by NR, on the opposite bank. No takers, it seems.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 20, 2017, 06:35:16 pm
Surplus Mk II seating?  :P



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 20, 2017, 06:59:24 pm
Surplus Mk II seating?  :P



Possibly.

You know that moment, about halfway through your third can of Special Brew, when your bum sort of slides forwards off the edge of the sofa? Wouldn't want to try that there. possession or no!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 24, 2017, 08:35:42 pm
Not exactly a 4 tracking post or an electrification one but did notice at Bristol Parkway yesterday that the new platform wall has been backfilled with what looks like spent ballast and the the old metal back wall has been removed and replaced with temporary barriers. Looks like it's soon ready for surfacing. Not sure when it's supposed to open though.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 24, 2017, 08:51:10 pm
Not exactly a 4 tracking post or an electrification one but did notice at Bristol Parkway yesterday that the new platform wall has been backfilled with what looks like spent ballast and the the old metal back wall has been removed and replaced with temporary barriers. Looks like it's soon ready for surfacing. Not sure when it's supposed to open though.

I was told 'by Christmas', 23rd or 24th December from a trusted source if not sooner.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 24, 2017, 09:04:24 pm
Not exactly a 4 tracking post or an electrification one but did notice at Bristol Parkway yesterday that the new platform wall has been backfilled with what looks like spent ballast and the the old metal back wall has been removed and replaced with temporary barriers. Looks like it's soon ready for surfacing. Not sure when it's supposed to open though.

I was told 'by Christmas', 23rd or 24th December from a trusted source if not sooner.

It looks like the services are all in and ready for connection so all that's left would be the Christmas lights.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 25, 2017, 09:31:20 am
Rather more on topic, does this means Parkway will beat Abbey Wood in the (imaginary, in my mind only) race to open their new platforms? I suppose Parkway has the advantage of the track actually being in-situ.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Cruithne3753 on December 18, 2017, 05:43:13 pm
Right, I'm puzzled.  What I thought looked like it was going to be new track bed at Filton Abbey Wood is being raised into a sort of hump...?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on December 18, 2017, 06:50:38 pm
Right, I'm puzzled.  What I thought looked like it was going to be new track bed at Filton Abbey Wood is being raised into a sort of hump...?

I was there is afternoon with kid bro looking at progress briefly. Didn't notice anything. Whereabouts was it? Could possibly be the area where the 4th platform is going. Could even be a temporary bit of shifted earth?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on December 18, 2017, 09:13:14 pm
I think underneath it all, may be MARK my words, just a HOP skip and a jump away,may be the contrived ending of the work at Filton Abbey WOOD..... ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 18, 2017, 11:59:52 pm
I think underneath it all, may be MARK my words, just a HOP skip and a jump away,may be the contrived ending of the work at Filton Abbey WOOD..... ::)

I see what you did there, chuffed (eventually)!

"He sleeps with the fishplates"?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on December 28, 2017, 01:28:29 pm
Not exactly a 4 tracking post or an electrification one but did notice at Bristol Parkway yesterday that the new platform wall has been backfilled with what looks like spent ballast and the the old metal back wall has been removed and replaced with temporary barriers. Looks like it's soon ready for surfacing. Not sure when it's supposed to open though.

I was told 'by Christmas', 23rd or 24th December from a trusted source if not sooner.

Had a look at the local press and the Network Rail website but all seems very quiet about Parkway at the moment so I guess the new platform hasn't opened yet. That said, I wouldn't expect the lord mayor, local dignitaries and massed marching bands to accompany the opening of a platform but some blurb from NR to announce this modest achievement might be appropriate.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 28, 2017, 03:16:21 pm
That said, I wouldn't expect the lord mayor... to accompany the opening of a platform

Would that be the Lord Mayor of Thornbury?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on December 28, 2017, 03:42:52 pm
That said, I wouldn't expect the lord mayor... to accompany the opening of a platform

Would that be the Lord Mayor of Thornbury?


I was using the term rather generally but Ms Harrison would be a candidate there I'm sure.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on December 28, 2017, 04:51:04 pm
That said, I wouldn't expect the lord mayor... to accompany the opening of a platform

Would that be the Lord Mayor of Thornbury?


No I don't think so, with my knowledge of the local area I would think the Lord Mayor of Stoke Gifford would be the most appropriate civic dignitary to attend if invites were being issued. I'll be passing through Parkway tomorrow so I'll post a progress report but passing through Westerleigh Village yesterday I couldn't see any additions to the already installed steelwork from which I reported on the 21st December. 


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 28, 2017, 04:58:34 pm
The December Operating Changes booklet all drivers have been given (19 pages of light reading!) says the following:



New Platform 1

From Sunday 31 December 2017, the new Bristol Parkway Platform 1
(on the Down Bristol Parkway Passenger Loop line) will be brought
into operational use. The platform length will be 280 metres.
An ‘S’ and IET ‘S’ Platform Stop Markers will be provided 10 metres
before the Bristol end of the platform.
The 3-state Banner Repeating signal BL1513BR is situated 162 metres
on approach to the platform starting signal BL1513.
Platform starting signal BL1513 is located just beyond the far end of
Platform 1 and is located on the right hand side.

Train Dispatch

Platform 1 starting signal BL1513 is obscured, to Guards and
Dispatchers, by the stairs leading off of the platform, so two ‘off’
indicators have been provided.
All platforms have the same method of dispatch in the down direction.
Please note this is a new platform to customers and colleagues alike, so
please take additional care to avoid any PTI incidents.

Platform 3 & 4
From Sunday 31 December 2017, Bristol Parkway Platform 2, 3 & 4
extensions come in to use. The platforms will be 280m long.
The PSMs on platform 3 & 4 for Class 80x services , in the Up direction,
will be moved 30 metres towards London.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 28, 2017, 07:47:44 pm
The December Operating Changes booklet all drivers have been given (19 pages of light reading!) says the following:

Many thanks ... just checking abbreviations:

PTI - Passenger Train Interface ?
PSM - Platform Stop Marker (?) - that one is defined earlier in the text


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on December 28, 2017, 08:16:10 pm
Many thanks ... just checking abbreviations:

PTI - Passenger Train Interface ?

Isn't that the seat - or in the case of long distance services to the Westcountry, the floor   ;) :D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 28, 2017, 08:19:35 pm
The December Operating Changes booklet all drivers have been given (19 pages of light reading!) says the following:

Many thanks ... just checking abbreviations:

PTI - Passenger Train Interface ?
PSM - Platform Stop Marker (?) - that one is defined earlier in the text

How about Platform Train Interface?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on December 31, 2017, 09:39:53 pm
Called in at Parkway, new platform looks definitely up and running. Happy to celebrate little gains as well as big ones. HNY Coffee Shoppers!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on January 01, 2018, 12:22:11 pm
The December Operating Changes booklet all drivers have been given (19 pages of light reading!) says the following:

Many thanks ... just checking abbreviations:

PTI - Passenger Train Interface ?
PSM - Platform Stop Marker (?) - that one is defined earlier in the text

Physical Training Instructor.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 22, 2018, 09:29:36 pm
It's been a while, so I took a look down Stapleton Road to see what's occurring.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4631/40337175732_3b72efde8c_h.jpg)

What looks like capped rebar protrudes above the mound of rubble. Was that put there to allow access for men and machines while reinforced concrete pillars were created?

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4604/40382563461_3e8e6199e9_h.jpg)

P3 (as was) is fenced off from P2 (as is) while work progresses.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4670/40382568271_6e532b7cc3_h.jpg)

A look behind one of those mounds reveals a chevron-shaped trench, presumably to reveal what utilities lie buried within?

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4622/25510267587_41a2bf3bb6_h.jpg)

A look in the direction of Temple Meads shows where the new steel will eventually be laid, to form Four Track, Now!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on February 22, 2018, 10:18:01 pm
My regular jaunts on the Severn Riviera Express from Redland have shown progress but I still wonder when I will see the rails in place.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 22, 2018, 11:37:12 pm
My regular jaunts on the Severn Riviera Express from Redland have shown progress but I still wonder when I will see the rails in place.

I seem to recall November 2018 being mentioned.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 23, 2018, 09:01:59 am

What looks like capped rebar protrudes above the mound of rubble. Was that put there to allow access for men and machines while reinforced concrete pillars were created?


For info, there's a GA you can look at on the  Bristol City Council Planning Portal (https://www.bristol.gov.uk/planning-and-building-regulations/look-at-and-track-planning-applications), ref 15/00655/RA . Note the disclaimer: subject to further design...

...ooh, I just noticed there's also a little detail on one of the bridge piers: "corble(sic) for future OLE mast". I'm sure they'll value-engineer that away.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on February 23, 2018, 01:22:29 pm
...ooh, I just noticed there's also a little detail on one of the bridge piers: "corble(sic) for future OLE mast". I'm sure they'll value-engineer that away.

From the Urban Dictionary
Quote
corble
A mixture of bodily fluids that form after a long duration session of sexual activity.

Too right it's sick, although not necessarily out of context. A corbel may be of more use.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on February 23, 2018, 02:35:03 pm
The things you learn on here !!! Is that 'sick' in the way the youngsters use the word, or 'sick' as we oldies always understood it to mean ?? ??? ::)
In a similar vein ..our local Wetherspoons is called the Posset Cup (pronounced Pozzit). Posset is the old name for Portishead. However to the young, a 'Pozzit' is what baby regurgitates after being fed ! I am sure Wetherspoons didnt take that into consideration !!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on February 23, 2018, 05:08:15 pm
Lemon Posset ?.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 04, 2018, 07:51:02 pm
I noticed today that both tracks now go through the eastern arch of the Bonnington Walk overbridge. There's also a lot of work going on at Filton Abbey Wood, presumably for the fourth platform, and new footbridges in place in Lockleaze and Narroways.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 06, 2018, 11:33:15 pm
Sorry, Bmblbzzz, that isn't new work. I took this picture in March 2017:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4776/38851709870_5f83a15c86_c.jpg)

I took this picture today:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4802/38851231240_62f41b826e_c.jpg)

A lot has happened in the 12 month gap, but the railway ran through the eastern arches back then, and I think since it was reduced to two tracks in 1984. (IIRC).

Whilst I was in the area, I swung by Abbey Wood:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4775/39766443985_87b4a6f722_c.jpg)

A retaining wall is well on the way, and it looks as if shuttering for work on the new platform is being prepared. More when I get a moment.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 07, 2018, 10:59:20 am
I thought it used to run one track through each arch, but all I'm saying is:  :-[ :-[ :-[


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 07, 2018, 12:30:48 pm
Google's time machine suggests that it's been like this since at least 2012...

https://goo.gl/maps/inLRCtnHeZy


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 07, 2018, 12:59:20 pm
Google's time machine suggests that it's been like this since at least 2012...

https://goo.gl/maps/inLRCtnHeZy

Google's got another time machine that shows it like that in 1992... well, actually it's a 1999 view (slip of the brain, that).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: plymothian on March 07, 2018, 02:17:02 pm
PTI = Platform - Train Interface.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 14, 2018, 06:23:02 am
Inspired by a wave of extra activities ... I have a question.  "What is the cost of the 4 track on Filton Bank project" and a corollary "is that cost included in or extra to the MetroWest budget / cost".

Quick look, I found Rail Technology Magazine (http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Inbox/33m-project-to-four-track-route-between-two-main-bristol-stations/88620) from 4 years ago talking of a £33 milliion contract ( "Work to double the railway lines will begin in December 2014 and will be undertaken by Taylor Woodrow, following the award of a £33m contract by Network Rail.") but I wonder (a) is that the complete cost or are other contracts involved (and indeed there's Network Rail's own associated costs) and (b) is the figure current.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 14, 2018, 09:59:57 am
Well Grahame, for starters the TW contract doesn't include the signalling work as that is part of the ongoing BARS (Bristol Area Resignalling Scheme) project being carried out by ALSTOM.  Having seen the signalling plan for 4T, I would estimate that element of the work to them to be about £2-3M.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 14, 2018, 12:05:53 pm
I would be astonished if the track work alone could be done for £33 million. The amount of work done so far is remarkable. The whole line has been reinforced and cleared, the bridge at Stapleton Road has been demolished in readiness for a new one, and there is still a long way to go before the easy bit - laying the rails - happens. Some work will have been done under the aegis of the paused electrification work or resignalling, so will appear under different headings in the accounts, but I seem to recall a figure of around £90 million being mentioned some time back.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 14, 2018, 12:53:13 pm
Inspired by a wave of extra activities ... I have a question.  "What is the cost of the 4 track on Filton Bank project" and a corollary "is that cost included in or extra to the MetroWest budget / cost".

Quick look, I found Rail Technology Magazine (http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Inbox/33m-project-to-four-track-route-between-two-main-bristol-stations/88620) from 4 years ago talking of a £33 milliion contract ( "Work to double the railway lines will begin in December 2014 and will be undertaken by Taylor Woodrow, following the award of a £33m contract by Network Rail.") but I wonder (a) is that the complete cost or are other contracts involved (and indeed there's Network Rail's own associated costs) and (b) is the figure current.

Here's another report, this time from Construction New (https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/projects/contracts/taylor-woodrow-wins-33m-bristol-rail-upgrade/8671890.article)s, that says a bit more about what work is included in the £33M:
Quote
Network Rail awards Taylor Woodrow £33m track upgrade
 31 October, 2014 By Lucy Mair

Network Rail has appointed Taylor Woodrow to deliver a three-year £33m track upgrade package in Bristol.

The contractor will increase the rail capacity from two tracks to four along a 15 km route from Dr Days Junction to Filton Abbey Wood Station in Bristol.

It will also replace or enhance 17 structures along the route, including four bridge reconstructions for electrification clearance and the refurbishment of two stations.

Taylor Woodrow project director Richard Hogg said: “This scheme is essential to deliver Network Rail’s vision of improving the Great Western Railway Network to help boost the local economy and will enable passengers to commute more easily around the Bristol area.

“The improvements to the infrastructure will make rail transport even more efficient and help reduce journey times; we are greatly looking forward to working with Network Rail on this important scheme.”

That doesn't say in as many words that no civils works were done under other contracts, so it's still possible that the replacement of Stapleton Road viaduct was - but the obvious reading of the text is that TW are doing the whole thing.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 14, 2018, 04:08:39 pm
That doesn't say in as many words that no civils works were done under other contracts, so it's still possible that the replacement of Stapleton Road viaduct was - but the obvious reading of the text is that TW are doing the whole thing.

In which case, it looks a bargain. The Stapleton Road viaduct needed a complete rebuild anyway, so may have been excluded from the figures, but even so there has been a tremendous amount of work. The rebuild of the Easton Road bridge alone must have cost a pretty penny.
15Km - presumably that is 7.5Km each way? Because it's less than 4 miles from Dr Days to Filton Junction.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 17, 2018, 02:31:17 am
Browsing during the night ... some interesting official GWR pictures from the 1930s from the Bristol Railway Archives http://bristol-rail.co.uk showing Ashley Hill and Horfield stations.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/sewweb_ashleyhill_old.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/sewweb_horfield_old.jpg)

Both shown on some of the FoSBR suggestions ... what chance?  Any of the four track work being done in such a way as to protect the site(s) at least for platforms on what will become the slow (or will they be know as relief?) lines?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 17, 2018, 08:39:56 am
Grahame, the WR diesn't do FAST and SLOW lines its always MAIN or RELIEF lines........


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on March 17, 2018, 08:54:18 am
Browsing during the night ... some interesting official GWR pictures from the 1930s from the Bristol Railway Archives http://bristol-rail.co.uk showing Ashley Hill and Horfield stations.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/sewweb_ashleyhill_old.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/sewweb_horfield_old.jpg)

Both shown on some of the FoSBR suggestions ... what chance?  Any of the four track work being done in such a way as to protect the site(s) at least for platforms on what will become the slow (or will they be know as relief?) lines?

The Horfield site, shown on the photo, has not been chosen as a potential new station according to what I have read. Consequently, I think a lot of the bank reinforcement work there has made no passive provision for a platform.
The picture itself seems to show the station after it had closed as the access routes and  the wooden ticket office by the bridge have gone.
If you are heading north along the line you can still see recesses in the bridge structure on the left hand side where one or two of the wooden joists for the ticket office were fixed to to the bridge itself (the other support being posts into the bank).
I'll attempt to add a photo showing the station with ticket office in a while.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on March 17, 2018, 08:59:46 am
Horfield Station the aforementioned ticket office and access routes.


http://bristol-rail.co.uk/w/images/5/51/Horfield6.jpg


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on March 17, 2018, 09:18:01 am
Horfield didn't have a signalbox, the signals shown were the up relief and up main homes the main line being the pair of lines on the right in the photograph, the box operating those signals was Filton Incline Box the following box being Filton Junction box, a box I spent many hours in with my schoolmate train spotting in summer school holidays as his father was a signalman there.

Snowing in Yate right now, ahead of forecasts.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 21, 2018, 01:19:47 pm
Grahame, the WR diesn't do FAST and SLOW lines its always MAIN or RELIEF lines........
As it "It would be a relief to have some lines"?  ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 21, 2018, 01:20:35 pm
I think the mooted site for a possible new Horfield station is further south, on Constable Road? And even then IIRC the line seems to be that there is only capacity for one more station and the favoured one is Ashley Hill.

Nice photos by the way.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 21, 2018, 05:19:35 pm
Bmblzzz, that's correct. The preferred site for a Horfield station is by the Constable Road bridge. But that is only preferred as in where the local residents and councillors would like it. So far, there is no official body supporting the idea.

The work to prepare the trackbed for the new lines to go beneath the Bonnington Walk bridge seems to have obliterated the northbound former platform. The southbound may have gone too - it isn't easy to see or photograph over the bridge since the walls were raised for electrification work. I might be able to post some pictures when I get home (from a country that has had no passenger railways for 67 years).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 21, 2018, 06:07:49 pm
If you want to get a good view of the works at Bonnington Walk, try Constable Rd overbridge. For some reason its parapet has not yet been raised.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on March 21, 2018, 06:33:56 pm
Constable Road is easier to construct a step free access to platforms.

When a child we used to walk to Ashley Hill station although we lived in Horfield as there was no step free access to the platforms at Horfield for brother then sister in the pram. We crossed the lines using the barrow crossing.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on March 21, 2018, 09:44:24 pm
I had a trip down the M32 today for the first time in a while.  The new north abutment for Stapleton Road Bridge seems to be in place and there was a large crane in the folded position and what seemed to be a DIY steel bridge deck kit next to it.  Looks like the Easter shutdown could also be used to put that in place.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 22, 2018, 09:20:58 am
The DIY steel bridge deck kit probably came from Ikea just the other side of the M32.  :D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: eXPassenger on March 22, 2018, 11:22:39 am
The DIY steel bridge deck kit probably came from Ikea just the other side of the M32.  :D
Hope it is open on the Tuesday when they have almost finished and there are 2 nuts and a washer missing.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on March 26, 2018, 09:12:39 pm
To celebrate my first day of doing proper part time working hours, I took a midday detour home to see how the new platform at Filton Abbey Wood was coming on. Clearly some way to go but without doubt getting there. No pics sorry but well past elementary ground work.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 26, 2018, 11:09:28 pm
If you want to get a good view of the works at Bonnington Walk, try Constable Rd overbridge. For some reason its parapet has not yet been raised.

I've used that a few times with the telephoto lens. Here's the latest:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4756/26790626408_7f953556af_c.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 27, 2018, 09:29:37 am
I would be astonished if the track work alone could be done for £33 million. The amount of work done so far is remarkable. The whole line has been reinforced and cleared, the bridge at Stapleton Road has been demolished in readiness for a new one, and there is still a long way to go before the easy bit - laying the rails - happens. Some work will have been done under the aegis of the paused electrification work or resignalling, so will appear under different headings in the accounts, but I seem to recall a figure of around £90 million being mentioned some time back.

Chatting with someone really well in the know this morning, and he came up with a fairly tight band (10% from base to top) with that figure in the middle.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 27, 2018, 07:59:53 pm
Chatting with someone really well in the know this morning, and he came up with a fairly tight band (10% from base to top) with that figure in the middle.

Considering what has been done, it's still a bargain.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 27, 2018, 08:59:49 pm
I can confirm that the Filton 4 Tracking Project signalling scheme has made passive provision for a new 4 platform station at Ashley Hill.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 28, 2018, 11:34:45 am
Four platforms? That seems to run counter to the idea of having two fast through lines and two for stopping trains. Good to have it there, though. And good to have the whole thing there, seconding its bargainness!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 28, 2018, 04:33:49 pm
I can confirm that the Filton 4 Tracking Project signalling scheme has made passive provision for a new 4 platform station at Ashley Hill.

Four platforms? That seems to run counter to the idea of having two fast through lines and two for stopping trains. Good to have it there, though. And good to have the whole thing there, seconding its bargainness!

Good news! I suppose the four platforms adds flexibility in case one of the slower lines is closed.

I didn't get that far today, although I had intended to have a look around the whole project. Instead, I called into Stapleton Road again to see what's occurring. This is a time of great activity, it happens!

The first thing of note is the temporary exit from the Temple Meads-bound platform, P2. The space formerly occupied by, and soon to be again occupied by, two lines has been levelled further, and contains the Mobile Welfare Unit. I thought this might contain a couple of social workers, some bean bags, crayons, maybe a psychiatrist, but I think it's just the brew hut on wheels.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/816/41030899552_fcd5635294_h.jpg)

Every temporary exit must have a temporary entrance:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/895/41030936882_bc0d452d6f_h.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/863/41030932482_34f8575742_h.jpg)

Looking the other way, the space between the former platforms 3 and 4 has bee filled in and levelled, no doubt temporarily to allow free movement of men and machines behind an equally temporary fence:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/802/41030928452_7ece3ccc16_h.jpg)

Looking back over that area from further along the plaltform:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/893/41030919172_d5c1be3d15_h.jpg)

And now, laydeez and gennermen, from the far northern end of P2, your first sight of the new viaduct, intentionally of a rusty appearance, sitting quietly between Stapleton Road and the M32, and awaiting installation in June this year:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/876/41030905332_4c33278be9_h.jpg)

If ellendunne is right, it came from the nearby Big Stupid Place, as Ikea was once known in adverts, and is called something like Trolleboda*

A further glimpse of the bridge from the station approach:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/808/27201252528_583011fa18_h.jpg)

Work on the northern abutment continues:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/896/27201257628_53a906f30a_h.jpg)

A slightly wider view, including the booth where the diggers pay for parking:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/871/27201265058_67d6f87421_h.jpg)

The abutment on the southern side seems as ready as it has ever been:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/893/41030954792_34cfbd37c2_h.jpg)

And my final shot is of the whole hole, soon to be bridged:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/800/39264673020_848b8cf602_h.jpg)

The schedule is for the viaduct to be installed in June, with Stapleton Road being closed for a period yet to be specified. Track formation work will begin very soon after that, with completion by November, and opening of the line in December, just in time for the January 2019 new timetable.There is a factsheet by National Rail (https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Stapleton-road-viaduct-factsheet.pdf) covering the Stapleton Road work,  and a further NR document (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/great-western-mainline/bristol-upgrades/city-of-bristol/) covering all of the work in Bristol.

(*Many of the names given to products offered in Ikea are names of towns and villages in Sweden. My niece worked for Ikea all around the world, and said that it was strange, when she was in Sweden, to see buses going to a wardrobe or table)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on March 28, 2018, 04:55:40 pm
Am I correct that this will be a two span bridge and that only one span is currently on site?  Or is it just the angle of the photograph making the deck seem shorter than it is.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 28, 2018, 05:23:58 pm
Am I correct that this will be a two span bridge and that only one span is currently on site?  Or is it just the angle of the photograph making the deck seem shorter than it is.

As planned for planning in 2015 it was to have 3x20m spans. I think that picture looks like the whole thing, assuming it's not been replanned much since.

As for its being "intentionally of a rusty appearance", that's called a "weathering steel finish", that is. Apart from that it looks almost traditional in design, if decidedly post-Victorian. Except perhaps for the plastic walkway along the side, which is the reason for all those closely-spaced supports sticking out of it.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on March 28, 2018, 08:18:06 pm
As for its being "intentionally of a rusty appearance", that's called a "weathering steel finish", that is. Apart from that it looks almost traditional in design, if decidedly post-Victorian.

I couldn't remember the jargon! My description was not a criticism - I like the look of it.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 28, 2018, 08:23:05 pm
And progress at Lawrence Hill ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/lawhill1.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: tramway on March 29, 2018, 01:20:21 pm
Firstly apologies to Graham for disrupting your breakfast the other day, but thanks for sorting out my login issue.

From a regular user on the route, the bridge span looks like a single structure. It also looks like there is still some way to go before the supporting structures are going to be ready, some concrete pouring still to do.

A route that was 4 track not that long ago the amount of work to bring it back to engineering requirements today is quite frankly huge. Some of the biggest work looks to have been the underpinning work south of narroways. Subsidence in the area has been an issue for a number of years, hopefully now sorted.

Filton station work progresses but not entirely sure even now what the final layout will be.

Anyway Hi to everyone.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 29, 2018, 02:17:56 pm
As coincidence would have it, I was also on Stapleton Road yesterday – on my way to and from Ikea! I got a Variera, which sounds like a nasty disease but actually bears a slight resemblance to an arched bridge, sort of, once you've got it together, if you squint a bit. Oh and some sylt... which sounds like it should be from Stockholm's harbour but is in fact jam. I did consider taking a photo of the big concrete ramp thing, but I'm glad I didn't because FT,N! has not only photographed it better than I would have but described it more accurately as well.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 29, 2018, 02:21:53 pm
I can confirm that the Filton 4 Tracking Project signalling scheme has made passive provision for a new 4 platform station at Ashley Hill.

Four platforms? That seems to run counter to the idea of having two fast through lines and two for stopping trains. Good to have it there, though. And good to have the whole thing there, seconding its bargainness!

Good news! I suppose the four platforms adds flexibility in case one of the slower lines is closed.
Yes, it does. I was surprised though. And if at Ashley Hill, albeit only passively, maybe also at Stapleton Road? Would make more sense there to enable changing between lines?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 29, 2018, 02:45:28 pm
I can confirm that the Filton 4 Tracking Project signalling scheme has made passive provision for a new 4 platform station at Ashley Hill.

What does that involve? I mean, does a station actually need any signals, points, or anything of the kind? I though not.

Is it rather just an indication that, should anyone feel inclined in the future to build a station, that is the most likely place for it, so please try not to put any stuff there (not just signals) that would have to be moved later?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 29, 2018, 07:04:19 pm
I can confirm that the Filton 4 Tracking Project signalling scheme has made passive provision for a new 4 platform station at Ashley Hill.

What does that involve? I mean, does a station actually need any signals, points, or anything of the kind? I though not.

Is it rather just an indication that, should anyone feel inclined in the future to build a station, that is the most likely place for it, so please try not to put any stuff there (not just signals) that would have to be moved later?

I was only quoting what is stated on the Signalling Scheme Plan (SSP).  I take passive provision in that context as meaning "don't put anything signalling or telecommunications related here" and nothing that might be civil engineering related (e.g. this is the best physical place for a new station).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 29, 2018, 08:16:56 pm
I was only quoting what is stated on the Signalling Scheme Plan (SSP).  I take passive provision in that context as meaning "don't put anything signalling or telecommunications related here" and nothing that might be civil engineering related (e.g. this is the best physical place for a new station).

One of the reasons quoted for the astronomic price for putting a track alongside the disused platform at Westbury has been "because there are lots of signalling cables buried there" - so no passive provision was made.  On the other hand, when we have challenge about cables being laid at present where a loop line would go at Chippenham (also to do with the old platform there, where we were promised passive provision), we have been told they could be moved very easily if need be.  I am struggling to understand the difference between the Westbury and Chippenham situations, and suspect that the difference is in the message that the infrastructure people want the community to hear ...



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 29, 2018, 09:06:16 pm
I think the main cable route to Westbury Panel passes that side of the station so 'lots and lots' of cables in the way.  At Chippenham, following the signalling re-control, there are likely to be a maximum of 4 cables in the way.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 05, 2018, 09:09:21 pm
Word reaches me of track being laid somewhere around Lockleaze. My camera and I are out of Bristol for a frustrating couple of weeks.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on April 05, 2018, 10:02:31 pm
Just a thought but could this be part of correcting the slew made to the lines after reducing to two tracks? The slew will need to be corrected at some time in order to make room for returning to four tracks and this might be how they do it with minimum line disruption.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 05, 2018, 10:31:12 pm
The Signalling Scheme Plan shows some track slewing at the 1 1/2 mile post between Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road stations.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 06, 2018, 02:17:42 pm
I'll check soon, but I'm out of town until 18 April.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 08, 2018, 01:50:35 pm
Some photos from Constable Road. Not good quality I'm afraid, FT,N!'s will be much better.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/884/40420702755_0857db90d7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24zQEGc)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/891/41316287851_01584a4ef0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25WYLWx)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/866/40420704175_8c58f60279_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24zQF7F)



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 08, 2018, 04:45:48 pm
Some photos from Constable Road...

Went and had a squizz at this just now. What may not be immediately apparent from the photos is the height difference between the old and the new: I'd take a stab that the old track is 700-800mm higher. Looking south from the bridge, it is looks like the old track will need to be lowered as well as slewed - which leads me to wonder whether they plan to dig out all the old stuff and build a new bed for it. Anyone know? Seems odd otherwise, given that as I understand it the new stuff we can see going in will be the local (i.e. slow) lines...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 08, 2018, 05:02:47 pm
Some photos from Constable Road...

Went and had a squizz at this just now. What may not be immediately apparent from the photos is the height difference between the old and the new: I'd take a stab that the old track is 700-800mm higher. Looking south from the bridge, it is looks like the old track will need to be lowered as well as slewed - which leads me to wonder whether they plan to dig out all the old stuff and build a new bed for it. Anyone know? Seems odd otherwise, given that as I understand it the new stuff we can see going in will be the local (i.e. slow) lines...

As I have said quite a few times on this forum now the WR doesn't do FAST, SLOW or LOCAL lines ::) :P.  They are MAIN and RELIEF lines.  The new ones in the photographs will be the RELIEF lines and the existing ones become the MAIN lines..... ;)  The new formation switches over from the RELIEF to the MAIN lines at approximately the 2 3/4 mile post (a short distance south of where the photographs were taken).

A new DOWN MAIN to DOWN RELIEF single lead junction is going to be installed in the foreground of the photograph, and the signal in view (BL1586) disappears as part of that work.  There will also be a new Up RELIEF to UP MAIN single lead junction in the far distance of the photograph partly under the road bridge.  Hence the gaps in the plain line track installation.  The two new junctions will be used by trains to/from BRISTOL PARKWAY (accessed from the MAIN lines at FILTON ABBEY WOOD station) that need to stop at STAPLETON ROAD and/or LAWRENCE HILL stations (with platforms only on the RELIEF lines).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 08, 2018, 05:16:23 pm
As I have said quite a few times on this forum now the WR doesn't do FAST, SLOW or LOCAL lines ::).  They are MAIN and RELIEF lines. ...

I totally understand that "main" and "relief" are a tradition that goes back to Marc Brunel.   And that the term "slow" has negative connotations.  "Main" and "relief" strike me as odd when some station platforms are only on the relief lines; the feeling from the names is that trains should primarily run on the main lines and only switch to the relief ones for capacity reasons, and not because the stops are only on the reliefs!

I like the way that King's Cross to Barbican and Moorgate had the "Widened lines". Perhspa we should call the 2 new tracks being added up Filton Bank the "Widened lines" too, with the old lines designated the "Metropolitain lines" as MetroWest will be using them, with platforms only on that pair.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 08, 2018, 05:35:39 pm
Grahame, dont forget that in an ealier post I mentioned passive provision for ASHLEY HILL station with platforms on all four lines.  I think in the case of STAPLETON ROAD and LAWRENCE HILL we are looking at GRIP 3 optioneering out new platforms on the MAIN lines for those stations on cost grounds...... >:(


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 08, 2018, 05:56:48 pm
I was slightly surprised to see what I saw. Sometimes you see a waggon loaded with track sections, and it's a length of rails with sleepers attached. I always thought that's how track was laid – sections of ready-assembled rail and sleepers put in position then welded together. But no, it seems that in some cases at least, the sleepers are laid down (with extras and/or mistakes!) then, presumably the rails attached.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 08, 2018, 05:58:33 pm
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/866/40420704175_8c58f60279_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24zQF7F)
Musical chains:
https://youtu.be/pIgZ7gMze7A

https://youtu.be/GZw_8PBdSfA


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 08, 2018, 07:09:30 pm

As I have said quite a few times on this forum now the WR doesn't do FAST, SLOW or LOCAL lines...


Being a pedant myself, I can only apologise for falling foul of this shibboleth. Just to be completely clear, though, does 'WR' refer to the Western Region of British Railways? Because that ceased to exist in 1992... ;)

As to the question of how the track will be laid, maybe something like this will be used? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLwO6u1J-w0


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rower40 on April 08, 2018, 07:46:59 pm

As to the question of how the track will be laid, maybe something like this will be used? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLwO6u1J-w0
I'm hoping for something like this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmZIgVoQw4 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmZIgVoQw4)
(1m30 in)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on April 08, 2018, 11:46:01 pm
I totally understand that "main" and "relief" are a tradition that goes back to Marc Brunel. 
Did he employ these terms when designing block pulley making machinery, or when designing the Thames Tunnel?  :P


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on April 08, 2018, 11:49:40 pm
Being a pedant myself, I can only apologise for falling foul of this shibboleth. Just to be completely clear, though, does 'WR' refer to the Western Region of British Railways? Because that ceased to exist in 1992... ;)

It should of course be NR(W) (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/) these days.  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 09, 2018, 09:32:14 am

As to the question of how the track will be laid, maybe something like this will be used? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLwO6u1J-w0
I'm hoping for something like this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmZIgVoQw4 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmZIgVoQw4)
(1m30 in)
Or maybe it will be like the scene with the train crossing the canyon in Back to the Future 3, there'll just be a flash of light and we'll wake up in the future?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on April 09, 2018, 12:44:07 pm
I was slightly surprised to see what I saw. Sometimes you see a waggon loaded with track sections, and it's a length of rails with sleepers attached. I always thought that's how track was laid – sections of ready-assembled rail and sleepers put in position then welded together. But no, it seems that in some cases at least, the sleepers are laid down (with extras and/or mistakes!) then, presumably the rails attached.

I think a lot depends on what is there already.   Short panels have their uses, particular in areas of dense S&C, but if the final requirement is for continuous welded rail, and there are existing tracks to work from, (like in the case of four tracking an existing two track railway), I expect it is quicker to deliver the LWR strings (216 metres each) using the normal delivery trains, and then work from the existing railway using road rail machines for the nearest track installation on prepared sleepers, and then work from that track when complete to do the second (further) new track.

Added a video, showing how an RRV can transfer a dropped LWR onto positioned sleepers, starts about 2 mins in:  https://youtu.be/SupWOAddodw


I think the 'new track machine' in the video being used on the Borders, and the similar Balfour Beatty blue coloured machine are more useful when installing a single track for the first time where they are either working from one end to another, or they are installing the first track on a completely new formation, such as when the Bermondsey dive under work was in progress.

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: tramway on April 09, 2018, 12:50:30 pm
So which were 'MAIN' and 'RELIEF' lines through Stapleton Road/Lawrence Hill?

Regarding tackbed height, it looks considerably lower on the reinstated route and far lower than would make the old platforms viable.

Will it be only on the RELIEF (Northern) section that will require dual running signalling?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 09, 2018, 01:06:05 pm
So which were 'MAIN' and 'RELIEF' lines through Stapleton Road/Lawrence Hill?

Regarding tackbed height, it looks considerably lower on the reinstated route and far lower than would make the old platforms viable.

Will it be only on the RELIEF (Northern) section that will require dual running signalling?

As posted above. The RELIEF lines pass through the existing STAPLETON ROAD and LAWRENCE HILL station platforms.

Not sure what you mean by dual running?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 09, 2018, 01:27:20 pm
So which were 'MAIN' and 'RELIEF' lines through Stapleton Road/Lawrence Hill?

Regarding tackbed height, it looks considerably lower on the reinstated route and far lower than would make the old platforms viable.

Will it be only on the RELIEF (Northern) section that will require dual running signalling?

Except that if you have ever boarded a train at either station, you will realise what a step up to the train it is. I had to give a rather elderly lady a bunk-up at SRD one day, an experience I would prefer not to repeat. I left it to the crew to help her down at Lawrence Hill.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on April 09, 2018, 02:06:27 pm
So which were 'MAIN' and 'RELIEF' lines through Stapleton Road/Lawrence Hill?

Regarding tackbed height, it looks considerably lower on the reinstated route and far lower than would make the old platforms viable.

Will it be only on the RELIEF (Northern) section that will require dual running signalling?

Except that if you have ever boarded a train at either station, you will realise what a step up to the train it is. I had to give a rather elderly lady a bunk-up at SRD one day, an experience I would prefer not to repeat. I left it to the crew to help her down at Lawrence Hill.

Something like this perhaps!."

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BNYDH6/benny-hill-the-italian-job-1969-BNYDH6.jpg


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 09, 2018, 02:28:08 pm
Some photos from Constable Road. Not good quality I'm afraid, FT,N!'s will be much better.

Those are much better than I can do for now!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 09, 2018, 07:10:01 pm
In the track laying videos, I'm surprised at how flexible the rails are. It's like a giant ferrous spaghetti machine! But I suppose that once they're fastened to the sleepers, that provides lateral rigidity, so as long as the rail is stiff in a vertical plane, that's all it needs.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on April 09, 2018, 07:16:41 pm
Pictures of the laying of new rails for the Gloucester Warwickshire railway extension to Broadway recently displayed the same surprising flexibility.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 10, 2018, 03:50:37 pm
Passed Stapleton Rd today - this picture isn't going to give Don McCullin anything to worry about, but it does show the new northern abutment with the new bridge span waiting in the background. I also noticed fresh new ballast at Lawrence Hill; not much, but progress!

Incidentally, my train (15.16 BRI - MTP) was bang on schedule. There's a thing.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 10, 2018, 10:17:31 pm
It is an excellent photograph, Red Squirrel!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 11, 2018, 10:13:13 am
It's not a patch on mine... for that fuzzy, hazy, impressionistic, foggy look.  ;D :-\


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 11, 2018, 02:59:34 pm
While it's nice to have a perfect example of a photograph, with optimum exposure, white balance, and co-operative light, if yours is the only shot, it is the best there is! I like those you have taken, Bmblzzz.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on April 17, 2018, 06:07:44 pm
Been following progress on the four tracking ever since it was first proposed years back, and was great to find lots more info about it on this thread, so finally joined myself!  After much driving around to various vantage points to see what progress was being made, decided to take a quick return trip from Parkway to TM about 10 days ago, which is when I saw the first new sleepers laid on what will be the new relief lines that have been photographed earlier in the thread by old Horfield station

Took another trip today and decided to video it from just past old Ashley Down station where the current track slews over from the old relief side to the current 'main' side.  Amazing progress since 10 days ago!  Have uploaded it onto youtube for anyone who's as interested in this project as I am  ;D

Here's the link....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiewgaJl9E4&feature=youtu.be

Also shows the amount of work going on at FAW where I paused, followed by the inevitable wait to get back into Parkway!   ;)

Look forward to returning in a week or so to see how things are progressing then


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 17, 2018, 06:41:58 pm
Been following progress on the four tracking ever since it was first proposed years back, and was great to find lots more info about it on this thread, so finally joined myself! 

And a very welcome addition you are! By way of celebration, I shall post some new pictures when I have time to empty my camera.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rogerw on April 17, 2018, 08:00:33 pm
A warm welcome from me.  Unfortunately I cannot get your link to work.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on April 17, 2018, 08:04:25 pm
Ah, maybe if I got the youtube settings right!  Let me know if this one works please...

https://youtu.be/UiewgaJl9E4


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 17, 2018, 08:34:00 pm
Both links work equally well for me, and very good to see, too.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rogerw on April 17, 2018, 08:57:34 pm
Both now working for me


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 17, 2018, 10:41:04 pm
It worked for me too! Meanwhile, on the very same day, I was looking at things from outside of the train:

Were you on this one, metalrail? I got a friendly toot of the horn from the driver. This is looking towards Temple Meads from the Constable Road bridge:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/859/41482577462_2abfffd08a_c.jpg)

The sleepers have appeared on that side of the bridge:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/831/40810830234_7dfa558cc5_c.jpg)

but in greater quantity towards Filton Abbey Wood:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/868/41524078041_5eec48baf7_c.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/900/27653462158_32bfd7a48f_c.jpg)

A close-up of a platoon of the Orange Army beavering away:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/857/27653424058_0c5b894b70_c.jpg)

as metalrail disappears into the distance, video still running:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/832/41482571222_488f0523bc_c.jpg)

I knew I should have bought shares in that gabion cage company:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/942/41482554212_cacf145afd_c.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/900/27653348458_86e3dd46e4_c.jpg)

Finally for today, work is going on apace to construct the fourth platform at Filton Abbey Wood:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/854/41482536812_bea8ee8ccd_c.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/829/27653326998_46b6447903_c.jpg)

but metalrail already knew that!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on April 18, 2018, 09:11:00 am
Haha nope wasn't me on that one, I was treated to a 'new' 3 coach 166 turbo both ways!   ;)

Great photos!  Good to see it in comparison to the existing lines too.  And yeah amazing just how many of the orange army are on it... I lost count of how many different sites they were working at all the way down between BPW and BRI!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 18, 2018, 09:14:45 am
Good photos! And... you've been stealing Red Squirrel's pile of ballast!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 18, 2018, 10:09:53 am
Good photos! And... you've been stealing Red Squirrel's pile of ballast!

As long as they leave my nuts alone...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on April 18, 2018, 10:36:37 am
Apologies if i've missed this somewhere, but not been able to find any info on it....

One thing that's been puzzling for a while now is how Filton Junction will be remodelled...  does anyone know please?

Watched the Network Rail youtube clip a couple of years ago which showed the new 4 x 75mph crossovers to transfer stock from the relief to main lines at various points on the southern approach to FIT which would make sense if expresses had to be re-routed onto the relief lines, but will there be crossover provision at Filton Junction itself?

At the moment FIT platform 3 takes all Cardiff bound trains, and the junction itself has crossovers so those returning from Cardiff can transfer to what will be the new main lines to use FIT platform 1, which will no doubt become redundant once all Cardiff trains use both the relief lines at FIT following the introduction of new platform 4?

So will the junction be remodelled - basically switched around the other way - with crossovers from the BPW lines to FIT platforms 3 and 4 so that all local BPW bound trains can use the relief lines all the way down, leaving FIT platforms 1 and 2 free for all the 800 expresses and Cross Country Voyagers / HST's?  The animation vid still basically shows the junction as it currently is which seems weird, plus there's ample room to provide the crossovers the opposite way around

Otherwise, especially seeing as FIT is the only 'local' station currently with scheduled stops on main line services - plus the introduction of 4 new IEP's per hour between BRI and BPW - FIT platforms 3 and 4 will literally just see Cardiff services, whilst 1 and 2 will have all express stopping and through services (both GWR and Cross Country), plus all local BPW services, meaning the famous BPW area bottleneck will just get worse!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 18, 2018, 08:56:50 pm
I'll post up a diagram of the F4T layout, but I need to draw it up first so it may take a few days...... ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on April 18, 2018, 09:19:24 pm
That would be great SandTEngineer, thanks so much! :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on April 22, 2018, 12:18:23 pm
Took another trip yesterday to film the down side, starting just before Muller Road bridge where the current track slews over from the old main side to the current 'relief' side.  Trackbed all just about cleared, various stages of drainage works and ballasting.  Plus lots of progress on new Stapleton Road viaduct piers since last week, with new viaduct itself in the background.  Also showing the current state of Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill stations

Here's the link....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DMrtx6qZMw

Got off at Lawrence Hill to catch the train back, and took a pic of how the station is now looking with nearly all of the new ballast down....


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on April 22, 2018, 12:40:22 pm
Took another trip today to film the down side, starting just before Muller Road bridge where the current track slews over from the old main side to the current 'relief' side.  Trackbed all just about cleared, various stages of drainage works and ballasting.  Plus lots of progress on new Stapleton Road viaduct piers since last week, with new viaduct itself in the background.  Also showing the current state of Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill stations

Here's the link....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DMrtx6qZMw

Got off at Lawrence Hill to catch the train back, and took a pic of how the station is now looking with nearly all of the new ballast down....



Still needs a lot of lineside vegetation to be removed though.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on April 22, 2018, 01:29:27 pm
Quote
Still needs a lot of lineside vegetation to be removed though

Just guessing - I know there's loads more people who will know better than me on this - with the amount of new sleeper work happening over the past couple of weeks on the new relief line side, that during the 2 upcoming weekend blockades in May between BPW and BRI, the current 'main' lines will be transferred to the new relief lines being laid just south of FIT, then rejoining the existing relief side lines at Ashley Hill, thereby removing the current track slew

That would then mean work can be concentrated on the new main line side between FIT and Dr Days

Happy to be wrong, and more interested to find out exactly what will be happening then!   ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on April 22, 2018, 11:55:55 pm
Thanks for that video, metalrail - I hadn't seen the extent of the work on the northern abutment at SRD. I don't know what's occurring over the two possessions, but a bit of track realignment would seem a good idea, maybe even the installation of the live sides of the crossovers. The new viaduct goes up in June, and it would be so much easier to lay two new tracks and keep the railway running that way.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 25, 2018, 09:26:54 pm
As promised above here is the diagram.  If you have any questions please ask. Apologies, but I can't seem to get it to fit to the screen width ::)

(http://cbrailways.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/1379866239/F4T%20v02.jpg?cache=0.82959417850069)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on April 25, 2018, 09:40:53 pm
So between Ashley Hill and Abbey Wood the Mains become the Reliefs and the Reliefs the Mains, is that so.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 25, 2018, 09:47:44 pm
So between Ashley Hill and Abbey Wood the Mains become the Reliefs and the Reliefs the Mains, is that so.
No.  Designers error  ::) :P  The RELIEF should be the top pair and the MAIN the bottom pair throughout.  Version 02 coming shortly..... ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 25, 2018, 10:02:55 pm
Version 01 now replaced with Version 02 in original post above.  I'll get my dunces hat out and go and stand in the corner..... ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on April 25, 2018, 10:39:15 pm
Has the Barrow Hill siding been reconnected to the Up Filton Relief?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 25, 2018, 10:53:59 pm
Has the Barrow Hill siding been reconnected to the Up Filton Relief?
It wasn't last time I passed over it (two weeks ago), but its still technically there as a siding and thus shown as in situ on all the signalling drawings.

Just to be clear, its not intended to be a scale drawing but what is called in the S&T trade, a facilities sketch.  If I do another update I'll make that a bit clearer on it.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on April 25, 2018, 11:07:36 pm
I remember it being disconnected a couple years ago. Was plain track for a while.

See: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13173.msg142770#msg142770

Should have read that thread first to remind me. Was only a temporary disconnection.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on April 26, 2018, 07:50:24 am
As promised above here is the diagram.

Just a minor point, isn't the current line from North Somerset Junction to Dr. Days Junction (neither shown on diagram) a two way line to allow access to SPM from the Lawrence Hill direction. Issue 3 beckons ?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 26, 2018, 10:22:50 am
As promised above here is the diagram.

Just a minor point, isn't the current line from North Somerset Junction to Dr. Days Junction (neither shown on diagram) a two way line to allow access to SPM from the Lawrence Hill direction. Issue 3 beckons ?

Yes. I can't update the drawing again just yet as I'm still standing in the corner of the room wearing my Dunces hat after the last error... ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on April 26, 2018, 10:41:10 am
As promised above here is the diagram.  If you have any questions please ask. Apologies, but I can't seem to get it to fit to the screen width

Excellent stuff, thanks SandTEngineer!

Tho it does back up my original concerns about the FIT to BPW bottleneck only getting worse than currently...

They've kept all of the crossovers from the S Wales lines at Filton Junction, meaning all 4 platforms at FIT can be accessed by trains between BRI and S Wales, but still leaving only platforms 1 and 2 for all BPW traffic

At the moment the off peak service is 2 tph each way between BRI and S Wales, whereas there are 2 'local' tph each way between BRI and BPW plus 2 mainline XC tph each way between BRI and BPW, thereby doubling the amount needing platforms 1 and 2 at FIT compared to those at platforms 3 and 4

Also with the introduction of the new BRI - BPW - PAD 2 tph IEP services scheduled to run that will make a total of 6 tph each way going thru platforms 1 and 2 at FIT, with still just 2 each way thru platforms 3 and 4

I take it the new 'flagship' IEP services and XC services will always be given priority over local services between BPW and the new Horfield Junction where the new main to relief crossovers are being put in, which will surely only mean further delays and even more of a bottleneck?

And that's before they add any future additional local services that have always been mooted following the completion of the upgrade works

Surely it would make more sense to have the crossovers the other way around at Filton Junction allowing all BPW services to access all 4 FIT platforms?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 26, 2018, 10:52:50 am
Thanks for that, SandTengineer! One question: what exactly is "recovered track"?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rogerw on April 26, 2018, 10:58:08 am
Existing track to be removed


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 26, 2018, 01:45:51 pm
For my two pennorth, I'm confused as to why there's passive provision for a 4-platform station at Ashley Hill but not at Stapleton Rd...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on April 26, 2018, 03:18:56 pm
For my two pennorth, I'm confused as to why there's passive provision for a 4-platform station at Ashley Hill but not at Stapleton Rd...

Does seem weird...  FIT makes sense as it's where the line splits, and it was rebuilt there specifically for the MOD

But seeing as SRD already has 4 platforms (albeit currently half buried), and LWH still has it's island platform with plenty of room to reinstate the 4th if they cut the vegetation back to the boundary, Ashley Hill having 4 is confusing

Could understand it if the new Horfield Junction on the map with the crossovers between relief and main lines was between SRD and Ashley Hill in case they had to re-route trains if the relief lines were out of action due to track circuit failure / broken down train etc., but Ashley Hill is obviously before that junction

Obviously only the current platforms at SRD and LWH can serve the Severn Beach line with Narroways junction as it is, but any problem with the relief lines in that area would leave no platform provision at either of those stations


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 26, 2018, 05:13:48 pm
Thanks for that, SandTengineer! One question: what exactly is "recovered track"?

In (mainline) railway signalling design practice the colours used are:

BLACK - Equipment/track to be retained unaltered
GREEN - Equipment/track to be removed/recovered (Green for GO)
RED - New Equipment/track (Red for STOP or ADD)

Other colours are used to show options (e.g. BLUE, PURPLE or ORANGE)

Hope that is of interest?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 26, 2018, 05:17:20 pm
For my two pennorth, I'm confused as to why there's passive provision for a 4-platform station at Ashley Hill but not at Stapleton Rd...

Unfortunately there is no explanation on the signalling scheme drawing, it will be in the supporting paperwork somewhere, but I don't have access to that.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 26, 2018, 05:39:59 pm
Thanks for that, SandTengineer! One question: what exactly is "recovered track"?

In railway signalling design the colours used are:

BLACK - Equipment/track to be retained unaltered
GREEN - Equipment/track to be removed/recovered (Green for GO)
RED - New Equipment/track (Red for STOP or ADD)

Other colours are used to show options (e.g. BLUE, PURPLE or ORANGE)

Hope that is of interest?
I should have been clearer in my question: Track to be retained unaltered is obvious, as is new track, but what does it mean that track is to be recovered? Does it mean it's already on site but will be taken from Position A and reused in Position B; so it's not actually new, but it is being altered?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 26, 2018, 05:42:02 pm
For my two pennorth, I'm confused as to why there's passive provision for a 4-platform station at Ashley Hill but not at Stapleton Rd...
<cynically>It's so they can not build/restore platforms at SRD, by saying there is provision for 4 platforms at Ashley Hill, but not build those either because (reason to be inserted).</cynically>


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 26, 2018, 05:53:27 pm
Thanks for that, SandTengineer! One question: what exactly is "recovered track"?

In railway signalling design the colours used are:

BLACK - Equipment/track to be retained unaltered
GREEN - Equipment/track to be removed/recovered (Green for GO)
RED - New Equipment/track (Red for STOP or ADD)

Other colours are used to show options (e.g. BLUE, PURPLE or ORANGE)

Hope that is of interest?
I should have been clearer in my question: Track to be retained unaltered is obvious, as is new track, but what does it mean that track is to be recovered? Does it mean it's already on site but will be taken from Position A and reused in Position B; so it's not actually new, but it is being altered?

It means its there today but will be taken away completely when the RED work is commissioned.  In the case of the drawing for example, a set of points shown in GREEN will be taken away when the scheme is commissioned (or in some cases, as part of stagework prior to that).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 27, 2018, 10:43:39 am
That's not what I had thought at all, so I'm glad I asked. Thanks for the explanation.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on May 08, 2018, 10:27:20 pm
Has anyone had a look at the Filton Bank recently to see if there is any developments with the new sleepers paid between the two bridges? Not had a look since mid April.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on May 09, 2018, 12:16:28 pm
Has anyone had a look at the Filton Bank recently to see if there is any developments with the new sleepers paid between the two bridges? Not had a look since mid April.

Yeah I saw on Monday that there's rails on most of those sleepers that had been laid before, plus a lot more sleepers and more track laid further down towards where the track slews over by Muller Road bridge.  I thought I was filming it again coming up Filton Bank, only to find when I got home i'd pressed the photo button instead of video and just had a crap blurry pic!  DOH!  Taking another one later today or tomorrow so will load it up then


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on May 09, 2018, 03:59:18 pm
We have Four Tracks, Now!  Well, in a couple of places anyway!  ;)

Lots more progress on todays trip since a few weeks ago...  loads more sleepers in place, plus rails laid onto the sleepers that had been laid before...  there's actually 4 tracks again in old Horfield station!  Would appear from where the new sleepers and rails are now in position that will be between where the new crossovers are to be installed from the new relief to the main lines.  Also a lot more work around FIT

Here's the journey up showing all the new sleeper and track work...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgAHZ1k0U9o

And back down from FIT to LWH showing more trackbed work, and more work on the new SRD viaduct piers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFAms61u0aE

Be very interesting to visit again next week after this weekends possession to see what progress has been made then


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 09, 2018, 07:45:50 pm
...mmm.  7 1/2 months to go and a lot of work still to do.  The Lawrence Hill - Stapleton Road section seems to be needing the most work still.  Keep posting the videos!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on May 09, 2018, 10:13:21 pm
I'm wondering if NR are missing a PR opportunity by not retrieving the old discarded rail between Narroways Junction and the Montpelier tunnel at the next possession of the line during 4 tracking. It would make a local heritage line a lovely siding or headshunt.
They could do with some nice headlines.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on May 10, 2018, 06:37:37 am
Appears there is still a lot of lineside and between lines vegetation needed to be cleared / trimmed back.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 10, 2018, 10:44:54 pm
Thanks metalrail - I only get to see half of that from the Severn Riviera Limited.

Delighted to see that NR have added colourful decorations to the spraycrete - much of their work is so... utilitatian. I note that those bits of spare pointwork are still sat on the platform at Stapleton Road; wonder if they'll ever get round to recovering them?



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on May 12, 2018, 03:13:55 pm
...mmm.  7 1/2 months to go and a lot of work still to do.  The Lawrence Hill - Stapleton Road section seems to be needing the most work still.  Keep posting the videos!

Yeah that part seems to be moving slower at the minute, far less progress than further up the bank...  looks like they're concentrating on getting the new relief lines in first so they can remove the slew between FIT and Muller Road bridge, then they can concentrate on the rest of what will be the new main line trackbed from the new crossovers southward, over the new SRD viaduct and connect up at Dr Days

Delighted to see that NR have added colourful decorations to the spraycrete - much of their work is so... utilitatian. I note that those bits of spare pointwork are still sat on the platform at Stapleton Road; wonder if they'll ever get round to recovering them?

Certainly didn't take the 'artists' long to 'decorate' that new spraycrete... think there was less than a week before it was vandalised... oops sorry, artistically improved!  >:(

And that spare pointwork at SRD certainly seems to have taken root...  caught my eye the other day yet again, should be used to it by now!  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on May 13, 2018, 04:14:21 pm
Some pics from Sunday afternoon during Filton Bank possession...

Constable Rd N showing crossover being installed between 2 new relief lines just south of Bonnington Walk, Constable Rd S showing a load more ballast being delivered.  Tried to get a close up of the new crossover from Bonnington Walk itself thru the metal railings at the side but no joy, and even tho i'm over 6 ft tall i'd need a stepladder to try and see over the sides of the bridge now!




Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on May 13, 2018, 04:18:49 pm
Then 2 of FIT, currently with no track into platform 3...  from the 2 pics looks as tho they're relaying the line from the junction to slew it over better in order to fit in the new track for platform 4.  Always noticed before that the line to platform 3 was slewed way over under the footbridge I was on to fit a second track under

Be interesting to see if it's completed for this week, or whether that's part of next weekends possession


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on May 14, 2018, 05:23:36 pm
Keep posting the videos!

You'll regret saying that soon!   ;)

Another trip up the bank this afternoon showing the work done over the weekend possession.  All the ballast delivered now pretty much covers all of the new relief side starting from the south slew, the first new crossover installed just south of Bonnington Walk, and the new track alignment from the current up main junction into FIT platform 3.  Look forward to seeing what next weekends possession brings now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTBYPTJkLIc


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 20, 2018, 02:37:24 pm
The orange army didn't get to watch Meghan and Harry:
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/972/42230732381_2b9218d9f4_c.jpg)

That's from Constable Road looking towards Bonnington Walk yesterday about 1p.m. In the distance you can just see the switch from relief northbound to southbound lines (sorry, I don't know which is "up" and "down" deprived of the London-wards reference point). I'm not sure exactly what the yellow frames on the engineering train are but when I passed that way again about nine hours later, it was still there and a crane was lifting the long steel girder and depositing it on main northbound tracks, while acres of ballast was being spread the other side of Constable Road bridge.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on May 20, 2018, 02:47:42 pm
They are probably the tilting wagons carrying the switch assemblies.

This was posted on Twitter  this afternoon.
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/998191304562667520


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on May 20, 2018, 05:03:43 pm
This was the same view this afternoon (Sunday) around 3pm.  2 delivery freights - 1 on the down main having delivered the new switch and more rails, the other on the up main having delivered a boat load of sleepers both sides of Constable Rd bridge, so expect to see those along with the new rails delivered laid pretty soon now...



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on May 20, 2018, 05:08:14 pm
They're getting there.

Three and a Half Tracks, Now!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on May 20, 2018, 05:09:11 pm
Then a trip to Bonnington Walk to figure out where the new switch delivery had taken place, as judging by SandTEngineer's new diagram posted recently looked like it would be just north of Bonnington Walk, and it was.  The first new switch was laid between the 2 new relief lines last weekend as in the pics, and the second new one (half of it at least) is being laid on the new down relief to crossover onto the up main, which will no doubt be installed either in the July possession or October blockade.  You can 'just' make it out from the only pic I managed to get thru the railings at the side of the bridge!



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on May 21, 2018, 10:23:31 am
Nice photos. Good to see the progress. I’m hoping to have a look around for myself later this evening.

Just as a point of interest, the lines at this location are titled the ‘Up Filton’ and ‘Down Filton’, not the Up & Down Main.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 21, 2018, 10:27:18 am
Nice photos. Good to see the progress. I’m hoping to have a look around for myself later this evening.

Just as a point of interest, the lines at this location are titled the ‘Up Filton’ and ‘Down Filton’, not the Up & Down Main.
Yebbut which way is which?

And I've just realized that having mentioned the Orange Army in my caption, there are none actually in the photo! But they were there...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 21, 2018, 02:27:25 pm
Nice photos. Good to see the progress. I’m hoping to have a look around for myself later this evening.

Just as a point of interest, the lines at this location are titled the ‘Up Filton’ and ‘Down Filton’, not the Up & Down Main.
Yebbut which way is which?

And I've just realized that having mentioned the Orange Army in my caption, there are none actually in the photo! But they were there...

It would seem then that I wasted my time posting a diagram here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg236581#msg236581


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on May 21, 2018, 02:46:39 pm
Nice photos. Good to see the progress. I’m hoping to have a look around for myself later this evening.

Just as a point of interest, the lines at this location are titled the ‘Up Filton’ and ‘Down Filton’, not the Up & Down Main.

Yeah as SandTEngineer pointed out a while ago when he posted the new track diagram, while there are just 2 running lines they are the Up Filton and Down Filton, but obviously now the laying of the 2nd set of running lines is taking place they're referred to as the 'Main' and 'Relief' lines as just Filton won't distinguish between them, and seeing as the new lines being laid will be on different 'sides' due to the current slew of the track halfway up the bank, we've been using what will be the new terminology to refer to each set...

So the 2 new lines currently being laid in the location of these pics will be the new up and down 'relief', whereas south of the slew before Muller Road until Dr Days the 2 new lines to be laid there will become part of the up and down 'main', joining onto the existing lines up to FIT

SandT's excellent new diagram clarifies all of this


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 21, 2018, 02:57:48 pm
Nice photos. Good to see the progress. I’m hoping to have a look around for myself later this evening.

Just as a point of interest, the lines at this location are titled the ‘Up Filton’ and ‘Down Filton’, not the Up & Down Main.
Yebbut which way is which?

And I've just realized that having mentioned the Orange Army in my caption, there are none actually in the photo! But they were there...

It would seem then that I wasted my time posting a diagram here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg236581#msg236581
Not wasted at all, because even if I'd forgotten it, other people won't have, and even if everyone forgot it, it would remain here as a resource. Although in fact it doesn't, as far as I can see, answer my question of which way is up and which way is down when the "to London" convention doesn't apply.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on May 21, 2018, 03:19:25 pm
Up is North and Down is South...  think of it as the quickest route to London from that point, as it's going via the quicker Badminton lines rather than thru Bath & Chippenham

So looking north from Constable Rd & Bonnington Walk, the new 4 lines left to right are Up Relief, Down Relief, Up Main and Down Main


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on May 21, 2018, 07:30:25 pm
Are the 'Up Filton Relief, Down Filton Relief, Up Filton Main, Down Filton Main' names not going to be used on the new four track section?

Wouldn't having two sections of 'Up Main, Down Main' (with the line to/from Bath) in close proximity lead to confusion?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on May 21, 2018, 07:35:57 pm
Judging by SandT's diagram yeah they will once it's all completed, as they'll also need to differentiate between the Up and Down lines on the Badminton (S Wales) Main Line...

Just easier on this thread here to refer to them as simply the Up / Down Main & Relief I guess as it's all to do with Filton Bank anyway


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on May 21, 2018, 08:16:31 pm
Up is North and Down is South...  think of it as the quickest route to London from that point, as it's going via the quicker Badminton lines rather than thru Bath & Chippenham

Not only that; there are scheduled services between BRI and PAD via BPW. Well, only one a day at the most, and much the same 20 years ago. There aren't any London trains going the other way around, and I doubt there ever were. (Disruption excepted, of course.)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on May 21, 2018, 08:19:53 pm
So you don't think the proposed IET services between Temple Meads and Paddington via Parkway will happen?

EDIT: Sorry misread last word as "will be" rather than "were".

Now, where's my glasses?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 21, 2018, 08:33:06 pm
Up is North and Down is South...  think of it as the quickest route to London from that point, as it's going via the quicker Badminton lines rather than thru Bath & Chippenham

So looking north from Constable Rd & Bonnington Walk, the new 4 lines left to right are Up Relief, Down Relief, Up Main and Down Main
Cheers! I wasn't sure if it was that or if up would be south, towards Temple Meads as the nearest major-est station.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on May 29, 2018, 11:15:05 pm
Not only that; there are scheduled services between BRI and PAD via BPW. Well, only one a day at the most, and much the same 20 years ago. There aren't any London trains going the other way around, and I doubt there ever were. (Disruption excepted, of course.)

1912 Paddington - Temple Meads. First stop Swindon then Bristol Parkway. Fridays only it also calls at Reading and Didcot.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on May 29, 2018, 11:42:54 pm
Up is North and Down is South...  think of it as the quickest route to London from that point, as it's going via the quicker Badminton lines rather than thru Bath & Chippenham

Not only that; there are scheduled services between BRI and PAD via BPW. Well, only one a day at the most, and much the same 20 years ago. There aren't any London trains going the other way around, and I doubt there ever were. (Disruption excepted, of course.)

There used to be a train that stopped at Paddington at about 8.30am ish that went to Temple Meads via Parkway. I think it then went on to Exeter.  The first time I caught it caused me a moment of concern that I had caught the wrong train. 


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on June 04, 2018, 02:48:09 pm
Mondays being very short work days these days, I sometimes divert my route home to pick up a few items from Filton Asda and have a quick nose at how the new platform works at Abbey Wood are doing. Took some pics today. Still no clear platform or track bed but some progress on the retaining walls.
Top pick looking north, bottom looking South towards Temple Meads.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 05, 2018, 05:35:24 pm
Got a shot at a new angle on the Stapleton Road viaduct works today: From the top deck of the JustaBus j3 service(!):


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on June 05, 2018, 08:06:14 pm
#MeToo, although from the more traditional viewpoint of a 48A on Stapleton Road. I was heading home from my depressing MetroBust ride. I had taken my camera, but saw nothing I wanted to immortalise until this.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1733/41874114884_957d2b15f5_c.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1743/28720246008_11f1289dc6_c.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1756/28720241228_3c3aa0f347_c.jpg)

Rather impressive, I thought.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on June 05, 2018, 08:28:43 pm
Impressive is the very word it brought to my mind too.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on June 06, 2018, 09:18:37 am
Wait until the vandals get their paint on all that nice clean white concrete.... ::) :P


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 06, 2018, 09:46:37 am
Wait until the vandals get their paint on all that nice clean white concrete.... ::) :P

Presumably white concrete was specified during the consultation with the local community as providing a suitable canvas for street art.

Sadly I doubt train passengers will be able to enjoy it, being as how it'll be rather tucked away under the bridge, but fear not! I'm sure the efforts of the St Werburghs massive on the spraycrete, a km up the line at Narroways, will compensate.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 17, 2018, 11:28:12 pm
Some progress, viewed from Constable Road bridge. First one is looking north - not much new apart from a large stash of sleepers; second one shows that Gromit's been hard at it on the downhill stretch:


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on June 25, 2018, 06:34:54 pm
I am given to understand that the new pre-rusted bridge gets put into place across Stapleton Road this weekend. I am stuck in Devon, so won't be there to immortalise the event.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on June 25, 2018, 07:14:29 pm
I am given to understand that the new pre-rusted bridge gets put into place across Stapleton Road this weekend. I am stuck in Devon, so won't be there to immortalise the event.
Perhaps Red Squirrel could do the honours for us?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 25, 2018, 09:26:14 pm
Might see if I can do another voxpop on ITV news - it's such fun, embarrassing the kids...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on June 25, 2018, 09:43:00 pm
Might see if I can do another voxpop on ITV news - it's such fun, embarrassing the kids...

Don't I just know it!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 01, 2018, 12:58:53 pm
As requested, I cycled down to Stapleton Road today to see how they've getting om. I'm sure NR will cover this with one of their lovely vids with the uplifting music, but for now:

1. New span in place over Stapleton Road, looking south.
2. View from underneath this looking towards M32.
3. Looking north from northern end of platform. The new bridge appears to be a lot lower than the existing one; not sure how that works!
4. Looking north from footbridge. Note that they are demolishing the platform edge.

One more to follow...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 01, 2018, 01:00:07 pm
...and this one looking east from footbridge - more footings than you'd think necessary for extending the footbridge.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on July 01, 2018, 01:24:23 pm
...Looking north from northern end of platform. The new bridge appears to be a lot lower than the existing one; not sure how that works!
I suspect that the latest standard NR "U bridge decks" are designed (assuming clearance above the road allows) to allow the normal depth of sub-base and ballast to run through the bridge.

Open to correction on this of course, but I suppose it will become clear before long when the ballast gets delivered.

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 01, 2018, 01:27:01 pm
I'm surprised at the distance there seems to be between the new span and the old stone bridge. Was there as much clearance to the old steel bridge? I also think in a way it's a shame they took the steel 'bows' (sorry don't know the technical term) down, they were more attractive in fact than Brunel's stone arches – but if it was too expensive to repair them, so be it. Good to have the new bridge up.  :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 01, 2018, 01:32:31 pm
Was there as much clearance to the old steel bridge?

Yup: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg217412#msg217412


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 01, 2018, 03:59:00 pm
Thanks!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on July 01, 2018, 04:48:20 pm
RS, Thanks for the update.  Keep them coming!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on July 01, 2018, 11:45:39 pm
Excellent pics as always...  rather you than me cycling in this heat!

Note that they are demolishing the platform edge.

Seems such a waste...  every time i've gone past recently i've lived in the vain hope of them being retained / refurbed so that it could be put back to a 4 platform station now the extra 2 lines are being put back too.  Especially as there's already passive provision for 4 platforms for the proposed new Ashley Hill station!  And there's still plenty of room to re-instate back at LWH...  oh well, back to reality  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on July 02, 2018, 09:57:10 am
I think the underlying principle of the four-tracking is to separate local and through traffic thus adding capacity.  If you run local traffic on the through lines you will reduce their capacity and negate the reasons for the four-tracking.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 02, 2018, 10:38:49 am
I think the underlying principle of the four-tracking is to separate local and through traffic thus adding capacity.  If you run local traffic on the through lines you will reduce their capacity and negate the reasons for the four-tracking.

I understand your point, but as an outside observer it seems to me that one of the bigger problems with the way railways are run these days is their inflexibility and lack of redundancy. Wouldn't retaining the main line platforms at Stapleton Road, together with perhaps a connection to the reliefs just south of Narroways Jct, have allowed greater flexibility?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on July 02, 2018, 11:50:45 am
Yeah that was my thinking on it too, not for general day to day running but more for redundancy.  The 4 track stretch between Didcot and London springs to mind, where a lot of the local stations in between still have platforms on all 4 lines, but generally only use the relief ones unless there's an operating incident - broken down train, points failure etc

Keeping the new through main lines free is great to free up what will be the new relief lines to run more local services, but as RS points out there doesn't seem to be any redundancy built in which seems like a bit of an oversight, seeing as the whole premise of re-instating the four track was to run more local trains more often

With no connection between the main and reliefs prior to Narroways in the up direction that will mean any issues with the relief lines between there and Dr Days will shut down all Severn Beach line services, plus with more services planned on that line on a greater frequency, and also the introduction of new services on the Henbury loop once the fast trains have been switched to the new main lines, building in redundancy to keep the local trains moving would seem to make more sense, especially as there's no crossovers from the main to relief lines anywhere up Filton Bank that I can see (I may be wrong) as they all seem to switch from relief to main, meaning that after Dr Days the first crossover from main to relief is north of FIT


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on July 02, 2018, 04:14:12 pm
Ahem.  The modern day thrusting railway doesn't do 'redundancy', it only does 'just in time' (or in the case of NR/GWR, 'just too late')...... ::)  :P


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on July 02, 2018, 05:07:24 pm
A quick update on Stapleton Road Bridge. I was there at about 14.00 today watching the second section being installed. Got there just after 13.30 from Filton Abbey Wood with half an hour to wait for the Severn Riviera Express and the section was just being moved from where it had been stored. By the time I pulled out on the train it was nearly in place.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 02, 2018, 05:49:52 pm
By way of answering my own question, I just found Prior Approval Notification 17/05003/RA - 'Prior approval notification of proposed extension of the Stapleton Road footbridge, as part of the Filton Bank Four Tracking rail project' on the Bristol Planning Portal:

All available land to the east of the station is to be filled with an access ramp for the extended footbridge, which will double back on itself three-and-a-half times to achieve the required slope and height. Most of Platform 2 will be filled with another access ramp which only doubles back once, mostly consisting of a long straight run laid out in such a way as to obstruct most of what could become Platform 3. There will be no ramp for Platform 1, presumably because there is level access from here to Belmont Road.

Just for the fun of it, I calculated how far someone with a buggy or wheelchair would have to go to get from Platform 1 to Platform 2. By my reckoning it is about 750m - is that a record?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 02, 2018, 07:36:39 pm
Just for the fun of it, I calculated how far someone with a buggy or wheelchair would have to go to get from Platform 1 to Platform 2. By my reckoning it is about 750m - is that a record?

Not sure.   Would need to measure Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon, and I suspect Bridgwater and Weston-super-Mare may be quite long.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on July 02, 2018, 07:51:22 pm
Just for the fun of it, I calculated how far someone with a buggy or wheelchair would have to go to get from Platform 1 to Platform 2. By my reckoning it is about 750m - is that a record?

Not sure.   Would need to measure Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon, and I suspect Bridgwater and Weston-super-Mare may be quite long.

To be fair, most of the distance is what's already there, going down to Stapleton Road and back up again by a decidedly roundabout route. The Alpine bridge replacing the path across the track bed does add nearly 200 m though, being 6 m up and down at 1:15. The question is, how much is it worth Network Rail spending on a route between the two platforms if it doesn't form part of any likely intended journey?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 02, 2018, 09:03:27 pm
I'd say the footbridge at Stapleton Rd forms part of a lot of intended and actual journeys every day, just not many of them involve a train.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on July 02, 2018, 09:21:45 pm
The question is, how much is it worth Network Rail spending on a route between the two platforms if it doesn't form part of any likely intended journey?

And why not? If there is ever a Greater Bristol Metro or a proper MetroWest Rail with local trains every 10 to 15 minutes, what would be wrong with going Sea Mills to Abbey Wood, as an example, changing at Stapleton Road instead of going all the way to Temple Meads to change? Somebody probably does it already, although in the interesting times when we can predict the arrival of earthquakes with almost the same accuracy as the next train, it takes some balls.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 03, 2018, 08:35:42 am
Just for the fun of it, I calculated how far someone with a buggy or wheelchair would have to go to get from Platform 1 to Platform 2. By my reckoning it is about 750m - is that a record?

Not sure.   Would need to measure Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon, and I suspect Bridgwater and Weston-super-Mare may be quite long.

Using the same rough-and-ready calculation, Trowbridge is about 460m; Bradford is under 400m assuming you can get to the south side through the park. Bridgwater is a footling 200m if you start at the station footbridge, rather less if you just want to get from the southern end one platform to the other. Weston-super-Mare - ah, now you're talking! At 650m, Weston comes close to the future Stapleton Road arrangement, and of course it is a clear winner if the gate is locked and you have to go back...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 03, 2018, 09:07:49 am
Weston-super-Mare - ah, now you're talking! At 650m, Weston comes close to the future Stapleton Road arrangement, and of course it is a clear winner if the gate is locked and you have to go back...

Stapleton Road is unlikely to be a major interchange until service are frequent and reliable (I think that's called "MetroWest" when it become the logical point to change if you're travelling Clifton to Filton, for example - indeed not only logical but mandated, unless there is an easement that would allow doubling back via Temple Meads.

Weston-super-Mare is less of an interchange; local passengers from Weston Milton and Bedminster to Bridgwater I suppose (and similar journeys) but unsure as to whether there would always / ever be a platform change necessary?   

Further question - TVMs.   At Weston, are there ticket purchase facilities on the eastern platform - or would wheelchair / buggie passengers who do not have tickets need to purchase them at the western platform before taking that 650 metre walk?  If so, the distance involved is important for far more that just the connecting passenger!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 03, 2018, 09:41:37 am
Just to add to the fun, the access road from Stapleton Road to Platform 2 (towards BRI) is steeper than 1:12 and is about 140m long. You need to get up that before reaching the luxury of the 1:15 ramp up to the footbridge. The access road is also a mess of potholes and very uneven, but presumably that can be fixed!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Phantom on July 03, 2018, 10:03:36 am
The mother of all platform changes has to be at Gloucester


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on July 04, 2018, 03:11:22 pm
Just for the fun of it, I calculated how far someone with a buggy or wheelchair would have to go to get from Platform 1 to Platform 2. By my reckoning it is about 750m - is that a record?

Sounds about right for a skateboard nursery slope. They can hone their skills before tackling the Cenotaph.

The access road is also a mess of potholes and very uneven, but presumably that can be fixed!

Yes. At least in theory.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 08, 2018, 05:29:49 pm
Out and about this morning, before it got too hot. I've taken BNM's tip and hosted the images on imgbb.com, so let's hope I've done it right!

First two are the now more-or-less complete Stapleton Road viaduct:
(https://image.ibb.co/ju68go/sr1_20180708_113724.jpg)
Note the sticky-outy bit (I think that's the correct engineering term) on the side of the leftmost pier; from the plans I think that is for an access gantry of some sort:
(https://image.ibb.co/h1bPMo/sr2_20180708_113813.jpg)
Network Rail were out in force on Filton Bank; hard to get decent pics as everything was so far away from anywhere I could access, but this one (taken from Bonnington Walk looking south) shows track panel wagons. There was also a trainload of sleepers just south of this:
(https://image.ibb.co/mPdM1o/bw_20180708_104742.jpg)
Finally Parkway station, where there appeared to be more than enough buses to meet demand. To a passing cyclist, this looked like a model of quiet efficiency; YMMV.
(https://image.ibb.co/iMXQST/pw_20180708_110346.jpg)

Edit: Apologies for false start; should be OK now. learning curve and all that!
Another edit: Third time's a treat!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 08, 2018, 05:33:00 pm
Can't see any images there.  :(


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 08, 2018, 06:20:22 pm
Edit: Apologies for false start; should be OK now. learning curve and all that!
Another edit: Third time's a treat!
 

Look good - thank you!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 08, 2018, 07:39:42 pm
Note the sticky-outy bit...

Ah, belay that; I dug out the plans (15/00655/RA  on the Bristol Planning Portal for them as might be interested) and I see that my memory has been playing tricks with me; it is actually a 'corble (sic) for future OLE mast'. Let's hope some of the younger readers live to see it employed.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 08, 2018, 08:14:18 pm
Yeah, photos! Thanks, Red Squirrel. By the way, I've never heard of imgbb.com, I presume it's something like flckr but in some way better, or at least supposedly better?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on July 08, 2018, 08:47:44 pm
Good pictures indeed, Red Squirrel! I wnet along Statpleton Road on Thursday, but without chance to take stock or photos.

I switched to Flickr from Photobucket when the latter decided to charge. I shall look at imgbb, just in case.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 09, 2018, 09:23:16 am
Yeah, photos! Thanks, Red Squirrel. By the way, I've never heard of imgbb.com, I presume it's something like flckr but in some way better, or at least supposedly better?

BNM suggested it; a quick google suggests that not everyone loves it - I wouldn't use it for primary storage, for example, nor would I put stuff there if I cared about my copyright - but it does the job.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on July 10, 2018, 08:08:24 am
Unfortunately the images do not appear on my MacBook Pro or iPad but do so on an old iPhone!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on July 16, 2018, 02:54:14 pm
A picture below of Filton Abbey Wood new platform at about noon today. Looking South the platform wall has been started. It looks like they have started at the southern end and are working north. The arrangements of the supporting walls are now making more sense with the course of the permanent access ramp now becoming clearer. They looked quite busy on the wall for the time being, perhaps there will be a lot more progress to show in the next few days.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 16, 2018, 03:12:39 pm
Well that saves me the bother of posting the identical photo I took yesterday!  :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on July 30, 2018, 04:29:56 pm
Took another look at Filton Abbey Wood today. After what seemed like a brief pause in progress, the platform wall construction has resumed. There was not really enough visible progress from my previous picture to justify a new one yet but the wall is now nearly half way from it's southern extreme to the footbridge so more obvious progress could be imminent.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on August 03, 2018, 07:07:40 pm
Bristol Parkway to be closed from 15 September - 07 October and from 27 October - 19 November trains will not run between Temple Meads and Parkway and will include the Severn Beach line. I presume this will be to connect up and commission the four tracking.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 03, 2018, 08:06:04 pm
The signalling commissioning is over xmas 2018/new year 2019.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on August 04, 2018, 11:27:21 pm
Bristol Parkway to be closed from 15 September - 07 October and from 27 October - 19 November trains will not run between Temple Meads and Parkway and will include the Severn Beach line. I presume this will be to connect up and commission the four tracking.

Will the Crosscountry trains be using the Henbury loop again?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on August 05, 2018, 12:38:08 am
Bristol Parkway to be closed from 15 September - 07 October and from 27 October - 19 November trains will not run between Temple Meads and Parkway and will include the Severn Beach line. I presume this will be to connect up and commission the four tracking.

Will the Crosscountry trains be using the Henbury loop again?

The first of those closures, 15 September to 6 October, is for Parkway's electrification. Presumably the full block closure is preferred there because there is a reasonable diversion via Bath, and for XC trains via the Severn Tunnel, Newport, and Lydney. Buses fill the other gaps around Parkway.

Filton Bank's fourtification also gets a 23-day block closure (27 October to 18 November), as well as weekend ones (13 and 14 October and 24 and 25 November and 1 and  2 December, though they may involve other stuff too). The services for those have not been announced yet, but the "expected" route for XCs is via Swindon and Bath. For most other routes, it is buses and more buses.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 05, 2018, 10:13:25 am
Bristol Parkway to be closed from 15 September - 07 October and from 27 October - 19 November trains will not run between Temple Meads and Parkway and will include the Severn Beach line. I presume this will be to connect up and commission the four tracking.

Will the Crosscountry trains be using the Henbury loop again?

Last time they used the Henbury loop for north-south trains was when they redid  Filton junction, so the Severn Rivera line was available (though not for its usual users!); this time that line is included in the blockade. I presume that there are good reasons for this - a layman might imagine that it was overkill.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rogerw on August 05, 2018, 07:20:41 pm
Don't forget that there will be work at Dr Days junction to connect up the four tracks and this work will affect the Severn Beach line


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 05, 2018, 08:12:58 pm
Well that's the thing, see: according to S&TE's excellent diagram, the current lines from Temple Meads to Narroways - the reliefs, in the new scheme of things - don't appear to be affected by the remodelling. So I'm assuming that the closure is for safety reasons.

(http://cbrailways.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/1379866239/F4T%20v02.jpg?cache=0.82959417850069)
Diagram courtesy of SandTEngineer


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on August 05, 2018, 08:59:13 pm
If there's a bit off heavy plant needed for the day it could mean there is a possibility of occasional obstruction that cannot be safely predicted.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on August 05, 2018, 09:10:20 pm
Well that's the thing, see: according to S&TE's excellent diagram, the current lines from Temple Meads to Narroways - the reliefs, in the new scheme of things - don't appear to be affected by the remodelling. So I'm assuming that the closure is for safety reasons.

The current up and down lines will be breached on Filton Bank where the lines are slewed to run from the original formation of the relief line to the original main lines so as to connect the new tracks to run through the new platform and the added 3rd platform and for the new relaid tracks from Dr. Days Junction tracks can be connected through the original Abbey Wood platforms.

In the olden days of semaphore signalling the box controlling what SandTEngineers excellent diagram labels as HORFIELD JCN was FILTON INCLINE SIGNAL BOX.

I spent many an hour in the next box up the line, FILTON JUNCTION, with my school chum whose father was a signalman there, sat on an old cushion on an upturned metal milk crate.

One day when I got time I'll put down some memories of my adventures in the late 50's with my school chum which at one point included a footplate ride on GWR 3440 CITY OF TRURO from Filton Junction to Swindon when the loco was working the Bristol - Swindon via Badminton all stops diagram in 1958 I think it was.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 05, 2018, 09:18:33 pm
Yes, but I don't understand why the Beach line needs to be closed for many weeks when, as far as I can see, there will be no breach at any point between Narroways and Temple Meads...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on August 05, 2018, 09:36:43 pm
Yes, but I don't understand why the Beach line needs to be closed for many weeks when, as far as I can see, there will be no breach at any point between Narroways and Temple Meads...

For engineering trains ?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 06, 2018, 01:04:58 pm
Filton Bank's fourtification ...
I like this word.  :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on August 06, 2018, 02:39:37 pm
A quick visit to Abbey Wood today while passing by. Platform wall building has seems to have slowed again over the last week but there is general progress on show with quite a bit of earth moved. Here's a few pics:

Top pic looking North from bridge. Middle pic, further view north.
Bottom pic, looking South from bridge.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: tramway on August 06, 2018, 10:12:31 pm
Are there any plans to alter p!atform 3 to accommodate the additional line?

I appreciate it's difficult to judge at the moment but when it was originally built it was a very simple retaining wall and rubble fill afare to expand platform 2. And there have been numerous spray paint lines in the past 18 months indicative of new platform edges, that was my interpretation.

Given the extent of the current work, the realignment of the platform would be minimal.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rower40 on August 07, 2018, 05:54:48 pm
Filton Bank's fourtification ...
I like this word.  :)
Is there really enough space for forty tracks? ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on August 07, 2018, 11:17:40 pm
Are there any plans to alter p!atform 3 to accommodate the additional line?

I appreciate it's difficult to judge at the moment but when it was originally built it was a very simple retaining wall and rubble fill afare to expand platform 2. And there have been numerous spray paint lines in the past 18 months indicative of new platform edges, that was my interpretation.

Given the extent of the current work, the realignment of the platform would be minimal.

A chat almost a year ago with some GWR train staff waiting at Abbeywood for their next train suggested this. From what I have seen, this might have been more speculative than actual.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 10, 2018, 11:34:12 am
Some photos taken yesterday from Narroways footbridge.

Looking north, sleepers all the way:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Narroways_cutting.jpg/1024px-Narroways_cutting.jpg)

Looking south; sleepers now nearly reach Stapleton Rd viaduct (just visible before the track disappears behind the trees in the distance):

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Narroways_jct.jpg/1024px-Narroways_jct.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 10, 2018, 11:36:02 am
Didn't take long for the artistry graffiti to appear..... >:(


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on August 10, 2018, 06:41:37 pm
Went to Bristol today, massive progress since I last went 4 months ago, and it isn’t an easy project that has been set out.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on August 13, 2018, 05:07:40 pm
Didn't take long for the artistry graffiti to appear..... >:(
On Filton Banksy?   ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Noggin on August 13, 2018, 06:49:45 pm
Went to Bristol today, massive progress since I last went 4 months ago, and it isn’t an easy project that has been set out.

Yup, and just think, if they hadn't bothered to rationalise it in the 80's, they probably wouldn't have spent as much money over the last 30 years as they are spending now.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: philipgreg on August 20, 2018, 09:35:22 am
On another forum there is a picture of the new footbridge at Stapleton Road and mention of rails laid on the new up main under Narroways footbridge. Anyone able to get some pics?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on August 23, 2018, 01:32:43 pm
On another forum there is a picture of the new footbridge at Stapleton Road and mention of rails laid on the new up main under Narroways footbridge. Anyone able to get some pics?

I might have a try on Monday. Was going to have a look this afternoon but plans have been altered.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on August 25, 2018, 08:17:15 pm
Didn't take long for the artistry graffiti to appear..... >:(

Never does. Head for Ashton to see the newly erected and newly daubed MetroBust bridge. It hasn't had a passenger yet.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on September 03, 2018, 02:27:41 pm
Passing by Filton Abbey Wood Station today and took this south facing pic. Not a breathtakingly large among of visible change since my previous posted photo but progress nonetheless. No north facing pic this time as not that much has happened.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Noggin on September 27, 2018, 08:38:19 pm
Went up it yesterday. Ballast and sleepers down on the final stretch towards Temple Meads, so can't be that long before it's all operational.

Have to say that it looks like a very thorough job, lots of shiny steelwork and concrete throughout.   


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on September 27, 2018, 08:50:12 pm
Went up it yesterday. Ballast and sleepers down on the final stretch towards Temple Meads, so can't be that long before it's all operational.

Have to say that it looks like a very thorough job, lots of shiny steelwork and concrete throughout.   

From what I could also see yesterday from the front top deck of the Y1 to the city centre sleepers and rails in place over new Stapleton Road bridge.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on September 27, 2018, 10:03:32 pm
Will there be a ceremonial renaming of Four Track, Now! on completion?

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on September 27, 2018, 10:40:27 pm
Will there be a ceremonial renaming of Four Track, Now! on completion?

Paul

When would that be? Is he nearly finished now?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Noggin on September 28, 2018, 04:45:39 pm
Will there be a ceremonial renaming of Four Track, Now! on completion?

Paul

To "Now wire me up!" perhaps?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on September 28, 2018, 10:00:39 pm
Will there be a ceremonial renaming of Four Track, Now! on completion?

Paul

To "Now wire me up!" perhaps?

There has been some discussion of this rather important matter elsewhere on the forum, but I'm blowed if I can find it now. I did adapt from Four Track Now to Four Track, Now! to celebrate the announcement that the work to go ahead, an event in the distant past. I shall think of something, possibly even appropriate, when the first train runs on the new steels.

The truth of the origin of my handle is probably a little anti-climatic. I had been looking for information about the project when I stumbled across the Coffee Shop. As I suppose many do, I rather lurked for a while. Eventually, I felt I had something to add to the conversation, but found no inspiration when I needed it. Four Track, Now! was the best I could come up with at the time. It has given me some fun, though.

Tony


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 01, 2018, 04:51:30 pm
From the Opening Notice (Yellow Peril)
Note: This is not the final arrangement.  That will be commissioned over Xmas/New Year 2018/2019.

EFFECTIVE 05.20 MONDAY 19 NOVEMBER 2018

Signalling and permanent way alterations affecting the working of the lines
between Dr Days Junction, Lawrence Hill and Stoke Gifford Junction / Filton
Junction No.2

OVERVIEW OF THE SCHEME

• The existing two track railway (Up Filton and Down Filton lines) will be
augmented by two additional running lines between Dr Days Junction /
Narroways Hill Junction and Stoke Gifford Junction / Filton Junction No.2
(excl).

• The lines described will be controlled by the Stoke Gifford and Temple Meads
work stations in Thames Valley Signalling Centre (TVSC) in Didcot.

• Some signalling equipment identities will be changed.

• A new junction, known as Horfield Junction will be provided.

• New (or altered) three-state banner repeating signals will be provided.

• Filton South Junction will be taken out of use.

• Train detection will be by axle counter.

• Point heating will be provided on all new power-operated points.

LINE NAMES AND STATUS

The existing two track railway (Up Filton and Down Filton lines) will be augmented by
two additional passenger class lines between Bristol East Junction and Stoke Gifford
Junction / Filton Junction No.2 (excl) as follows:

• Up Filton Relief and Down Filton Relief between Dr Day’s Junction and Filton
Junction No.1 on the formation of the former Up Filton and Down Filton lines
at the Bristol end (between Bristol East Junction and the 2m 70ch position
approx.) and continue as new infrastructure to Filton Junction No.1.

• Up Filton Main and Down Filton Main between Dr Day’s Junction and Stoke
Gifford Junction on the formation of the former Up Filton and Down Filton lines
at the Stoke Gifford end (between Stoke Gifford and the 2m 70ch position
approx.) and continue as new infrastructure to Dr Day’s Junction.

STATIONS

Filton Abbey Wood
•Platform 1 and platform 3 will be extended towards Bristol East Junction, to be 117
metres long (128 yards).

•Platform 2 will be extended towards Bristol East Junction to be 126 metres long.
A new platform 4, (117 metres long) on the Up Filton Relief line will be brought into
use.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rower40 on October 04, 2018, 08:24:51 am
Thanks for the information!
If that’s not the final arrangement, then what change is being made at Christmas?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on October 04, 2018, 09:00:39 am
Does this mean, subject to train and staff availability, we should see more reliable and frequent services in the new year?

Or will these upgrades lie idle for years, like all the Metrobus infrastructure in along the M1 corrider.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 04, 2018, 04:55:14 pm
Thanks for the information!
If that’s not the final arrangement, then what change is being made at Christmas?

There is an additional third reversible track between Bristol Parkway and Filton Abbey Wood North Junction to be connected and commissioned.  Also an additional bit of reversible signalling through Filton Abbey Wood station to be commissioned.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on October 04, 2018, 06:07:55 pm
Thanks for the information!
If that’s not the final arrangement, then what change is being made at Christmas?
There is an additional third reversible track between Bristol Parkway and Filton Abbey Wood North Junction to be connected and commissioned.  Also an additional bit of reversible signalling through Filton Abbey Wood station to be commissioned.

Are you sure there is to be a third reversible track between Bristol Parkway and Filton Abbey Wood North Junction ?

I could see no evidence of this when I last travelled that stretch before the current blockade and that section is almost wholly on a raised embankment.

I understood the down line over that stretch was to made reversible so as to have a down, an up and a down reversible, 3 routings but only two tracks to do it on.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 04, 2018, 08:20:43 pm
Thanks for the information!
If that’s not the final arrangement, then what change is being made at Christmas?
There is an additional third reversible track between Bristol Parkway and Filton Abbey Wood North Junction to be connected and commissioned.  Also an additional bit of reversible signalling through Filton Abbey Wood station to be commissioned.

Are you sure there is to be a third reversible track between Bristol Parkway and Filton Abbey Wood North Junction ?

I could see no evidence of this when I last travelled that stretch before the current blockade and that section is almost wholly on a raised embankment.

I understood the down line over that stretch was to made reversible so as to have a down, an up and a down reversible, 3 routings but only two tracks to do it on.

Apologies, had my 'railway speak' hat on.. ::)  The third line ends half way around the chord between Bristol Parkway and the closed Filton Platform station.  Its being laid on the site of the existing Stoke Gifford Siding which itself is being recreated adjacent to the existing siding.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on October 04, 2018, 08:48:08 pm
Thanks for the information!
If that’s not the final arrangement, then what change is being made at Christmas?
There is an additional third reversible track between Bristol Parkway and Filton Abbey Wood North Junction to be connected and commissioned.  Also an additional bit of reversible signalling through Filton Abbey Wood station to be commissioned.

Are you sure there is to be a third reversible track between Bristol Parkway and Filton Abbey Wood North Junction ?

I could see no evidence of this when I last travelled that stretch before the current blockade and that section is almost wholly on a raised embankment.

I understood the down line over that stretch was to made reversible so as to have a down, an up and a down reversible, 3 routings but only two tracks to do it on.

Apologies, had my 'railway speak' hat on.. ::)  The third line ends half way around the chord between Bristol Parkway and the closed Filton Platform station.  Its being laid on the site of the existing Stoke Gifford Siding which itself is being recreated adjacent to the existing siding.

Being of a certain vintage I can remember when the third line spoken of was a head shunt for a very busy Stoke Gifford marshalling yard but was taken out years ago. There was a second head shunt which when that was taken out performed that function for the much reduced freight facility but has been incorporated into the routing to Filton Abbey Wood from Parkways new platform 1 and I have noted and speculated that the works being done was to re-instate the "lost" head shunt.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 04, 2018, 09:56:15 pm
Looks like I need to do an additional drawing to that I did earlier in this topic for the Filton 4 tracking bit, to show the Bristol Parkway bit.  Watch this space.....


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 06, 2018, 07:00:00 pm
Here we go then:

(http://cbrailways.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/1379866239/Bristol%20Parkway%202018%20v01a.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 06, 2018, 07:59:15 pm
 :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on October 06, 2018, 10:05:07 pm
With the lack of details about new rail schedules, for December, is it known when the extra trains from Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington , via Bristol Parkway, will run?

It is great,   :D, to have all this investment at Bristol Parkway, Filton Abbeywood and Filton Bank, but the lack of coordination and clarity of delivery leaves me, and others, unsure when things will actually get better and justify all this hassle.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on October 06, 2018, 11:13:29 pm
With the lack of details about new rail schedules, for December, is it known when the extra trains from Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington , via Bristol Parkway, will run?

It is great,   :D, to have all this investment at Bristol Parkway, Filton Abbeywood and Filton Bank, but the lack of coordination and clarity of delivery leaves me, and others, unsure when things will actually get better and justify all this hassle.

All those five car IETs sat doing nothing waiting to work the Parkway Bristol’s... any long forms expected  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 07, 2018, 07:41:32 am
With the lack of details about new rail schedules, for December, is it known when the extra trains from Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington , via Bristol Parkway, will run?
Nothing new in December, existing timetable continues even beyond May TT change apparently. So looking to December 19 before we finally see the fruit of the years of infustructure work on the GW network in terms of frequency changes and faster journey times.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on October 07, 2018, 07:53:28 am
Here we go then:
(http://cbrailways.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/1379866239/Bristol%20Parkway%202018%20v01a.jpg)

Almost exactly as I had been led to believe.

I was unaware that the Down Tunnel line was to be made reversible between Patchway Junction and Stoke Gifford Junction but it does make sense as all the trackwork needed to allow that move to be made exists and has existed for years, all needed was the signalling enhancements to allow it. Thanks SanTEngineer.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on October 07, 2018, 08:21:42 am
All those five car IETs sat doing nothing waiting to work the Parkway Bristol’s... any long forms expected  ;)
Maybe they could take over a few turns on the Didcot-Oxford shuttle ...

Solve the peak capacity problem and put the IET stop boards already installed at Radley to some regular use.

(Not quite as silly as it looks as there are some Turbo diagrams that go Paddington-Oxford-Didcot-Oxford-Paddington.)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 07, 2018, 08:30:49 am
All those five car IETs sat doing nothing waiting to work the Parkway Bristol’s... any long forms expected  ;)
Maybe they could take over a few turns on the Didcot-Oxford shuttle ...

Solve the peak capacity problem and put the IET stop boards already installed at Radley to some regular use.

(Not quite as silly as it looks as there are some Turbo diagrams that go Paddington-Oxford-Didcot-Oxford-Paddington.)

You're not looking at the maths of releasing 165 and 166 units westward prior to the arrival of the 769s are you, making use of 5 car IETs rather than holding back cascades?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on October 07, 2018, 08:38:42 am
By the end of March, all HSTs will be gone. So working it out you’d have waiting for the new timetable 1 or 2 from the Cheltenham Rotation, 4 from the Parkways, and all of the rest of the IETs not working to full ability.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 07, 2018, 10:12:54 pm
With the lack of details about new rail schedules, for December, is it known when the extra trains from Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington , via Bristol Parkway, will run?
Nothing new in December, existing timetable continues even beyond May TT change apparently. So looking to December 19 before we finally see the fruit of the years of infustructure work on the GW network in terms of frequency changes and faster journey times.

Presumably the new track will actually be used, though? It would be nice to see fewer delays on the Severn Beach line...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 07, 2018, 10:39:01 pm
Quote
Presumably the new track will actually be used, though? It would be nice to see fewer delays on the Severn Beach line...

I'm assuming that at the very least all the XC trains between BPW and BRI will be switched to the new Filton main lines, thereby relieving both SRD and LWH that commonly have to wait for the faster XC services to clear the current 2 tracks at the minute as they generally take priority


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 08, 2018, 06:07:23 am
Presumably the new track will actually be used, though? It would be nice to see fewer delays on the Severn Beach line...
You would expect it would be used improving the reliability of the existing timetable.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 08, 2018, 08:40:53 am
Presumably the new track will actually be used, though? It would be nice to see fewer delays on the Severn Beach line...
You would expect it would be used improving the reliability of the existing timetable.

Bearing in mind the seeming response "the answer is no - what is the question?" default from Network Rail to (even working) timetable change requests from January, make no assumptions.  My understanding is that even things that would seem obvious to do in January (and perverse not to be done) are not being given an easy passage.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: philipgreg on October 08, 2018, 01:19:11 pm
Given there are only platforms on the relief side and that the current track alignment shifts from relief to main i don't see how they can not use the new track!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 08, 2018, 01:21:19 pm
Quote
Bearing in mind the seeming response "the answer is no - what is the question?" default from Network Rail to (even working) timetable change requests from January, make no assumptions.  My understanding is that even things that would seem obvious to do in January (and perverse not to be done) are not being given an easy passage.

They did the same when BPW new Platform 1 was first opened...  it didn't have any scheduled services running through it, apart from the odd time when there were severe delays, such as a time I remember when a S Wales service was blocking platform 2 due to signalling cable theft around Newport / Cardiff, so they had no option but to run trains thru the new platform then

However after a while they started to run the 'local' FGW services into platform 1 - the ones I always catch from BPW to LWH - which helped alleviate the issue seeing as these often run late resulting in them conflicting with the XC services running thru platform 2 which are scheduled 5 or so minutes later

With the new signalling in place, then hopefully without need for a timetable change, the signallers at Didcot will soon realise delays can be reduced by running the XC along the new main lines...  and with the new platform 1 old siding now passing the old Stoke Gifford junction to connect to the chord further down the line as per SandT's excellent new diagram, it will mean parallel departures from P1 to filton bank along with P2 to S Wales will also be possible

Ever the optimist!  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 08, 2018, 02:39:52 pm
The key feature of the new Bristol Parkway layout is that all platforms will be accessible from all directions.  Thats a huge capacity increase.  But.....don't forget that NR signallers are under strict instructions to keep to timetabled order, and generally the signalling system will operate in ARS mode which will ensure that happens anyway.  So I anticipate use being made of the flexible track/signalling layout in times of severe disruption only  ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on October 08, 2018, 03:04:06 pm
So generally the ARS will be up, and only when the ARS is down will we see flexibility...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on October 08, 2018, 03:04:35 pm
Whats the point of having millions of pounds of new toys and never using them?

My wife tells me that when her mother used to say 'someday' her stock reply from 3 years of age was someday never comes.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 08, 2018, 03:17:18 pm
So generally the ARS will be up, and only when the ARS is down will we see flexibility...

I doubt that very much.  When ARS is off the signallers still stick to timetabled order.  They are under strict instructions to do so on pain of disciplinary processes being started against them (well thats what I'm told by several good signaller friends).  I'm affraid it's that 'money go round' thing again.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 08, 2018, 03:29:02 pm
In fairness, after the similar recent improvements at Oxford, there have been many instances where the extra flexibility has been used when it would’ve been quite easy not to bother.  Let’s hope the same applies at Bristol Parkway.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 08, 2018, 05:13:45 pm
In fairness, after the similar recent improvements at Oxford, there have been many instances where the extra flexibility has been used when it would’ve been quite easy not to bother.  Let’s hope the same applies at Bristol Parkway.

Hopefully.  I'm trying not to be all negative about it.  A lot of hard cash has been spent on making the Bristol Parkway layout totally flexible.

...anyway, back to the Filton 4T project.  Do any of our local correspondents have any more photographs showing recent progress.  Only 5 weeks to go to start of commissioning.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 08, 2018, 07:10:07 pm
So generally the ARS will be up, and only when the ARS is down will we see flexibility...
When the ARS is off, it will be replaced by a system known as Extreme Limited Bodging Operations.
 :D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 08, 2018, 07:31:41 pm
In fairness, after the similar recent improvements at Oxford, there have been many instances where the extra flexibility has been used when it would’ve been quite easy not to bother.  Let’s hope the same applies at Bristol Parkway.

Hopefully.  I'm trying not to be all negative about it.  A lot of hard cash has been spent on making the Bristol Parkway layout totally flexible.

...anyway, back to the Filton 4T project.  Do any of our local correspondents have any more photographs showing recent progress.  Only 5 weeks to go to start of commissioning.

My fairly regular Monday look at Filton Abbey Wood was scuppered today by being on a work training course which ran until the available daylight became too little for a viewable photo to be taken. My employers, off course, extend their apologies to forum members and I will endeavour to add another of my progress photos from there next week.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 08, 2018, 08:17:05 pm
Just seen, according to FOSR FB page, the Stapleton Road footbridge extension steps will be completed on 19th November and the access ramp next spring.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 08, 2018, 08:43:37 pm
Quote
...anyway, back to the Filton 4T project.  Do any of our local correspondents have any more photographs showing recent progress.  Only 5 weeks to go to start of commissioning.

Hoping to take another couple of vids either tomorrow or wednesday between FIT and LWH / BRI both up and down which i'll post up.  Last one I posted up was in May, and took a few in June & July but was very little difference to show then...  should hopefully be able to show some big changes this time with just the new points to go in between the 2 sets of lines   :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 09, 2018, 04:22:59 pm
OK, 5 months since last vids posted and loads more to see as expected...

Filton bank down side starting from BPW new Platform 1 and the new 3rd line from there to halfway around the chord to Filton North Junction, showing all the new embankment work.  Things get more exciting around 4m 40s where current track slews over from old main side to current 'relief' side. Amazing to see the 2 new lines all the way from the slew then over the long disused M32 bridge and new Stapleton Road viaduct.  From there it's 3 and a half lines thru SRD, and 3 up through LWH.  Also note the gap between the 2 sets of lines where passive provision has been made for a new Ashley Hill station

https://youtu.be/zxVJv-3xrBo


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 09, 2018, 05:02:37 pm
Then back up Filton Bank starting from Narroways junction up to a now very electrified BPW.  Most of the 2 new lines in place from the slew upwards, with gaps where there are current signalling equipment to be moved, and the crossovers piled up which will form the new Horfield Junction between Constable Rd & Bonnington Walk.  Also a gap around the current Filton South junction which will be removed as the 4 new lines will go straight through the 4 platforms at FIT, with the new platform 4 now looking much more complete

Excuse the reflection of the seats in front and my fingers holding the camera...  ain't complaining seeing as it's such a lush day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ4dtc5ZBz4

Helps if I get the link right!

https://youtu.be/sQ4dtc5ZBz4


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 09, 2018, 05:05:53 pm
And finally a few new pics around LWH

First showing LWH as it looks now with almost 4 tracks running thru again at long last, and also showing how much room there still is to rebuild the centre island platform and add a 4th on the opposite side (i'm dreaming again!)



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on October 09, 2018, 05:17:54 pm
To paraphrase the initials of a famous Indian batsman, it looks if it will be Very Very Soon, Tracksman ! :o


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on October 09, 2018, 07:59:13 pm
And finally a few new pics around LWH
First showing LWH as it looks now with almost 4 tracks running thru again at long last, and also showing how much room there still is to rebuild the centre island platform and add a 4th on the opposite side (i'm dreaming again!)

Looks like a bit more than a little weeding is required alongside the new UP MAIN.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 09, 2018, 08:00:32 pm
Thanks for posting those video updates METALRAIL.  Still looks a huge amount of work to do in the 6 weeks between now and commissioning on 19 November 2018.  One thing does disappointment me is the amount of lineside vegetation that could have been removed during the Bristol Parkway blockade.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 09, 2018, 08:11:53 pm
Got some other pics from LWH over the bridge with the new rails leading right up to Dr Days, but can't get them to upload at the minute


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 09, 2018, 09:17:58 pm
One thing does disappointment me is the amount of lineside vegetation that could have been removed during the Bristol Parkway blockade.

Yeah I noticed that as we rounded the chord seeing as my camera was obviously fixated out the window trying to pick out all the new works, and how overgrown it seemed to be


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Noggin on October 10, 2018, 02:09:44 pm
Apologies if asked before, but will the improvements be sufficient to enable a new Henbury loop service to be run, or will there need to be further works on the mainline?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 10, 2018, 05:45:33 pm
Apologies if asked before, but will the improvements be sufficient to enable a new Henbury loop service to be run, or will there need to be further works on the mainline?

Once the four tracking is finished and the signalling commissioned that should be it as far as the Filton Bank lines are concerned, as trains from the Henbury loop will be able to access all platforms at FIT, and also onto BPW

The issue will be on the loop itself between FIT / BPW and SAR, getting that re-signalled for passenger train use - that's if they decide to go for the full loop option rather than just running them to Henbury and back

And also if they want to get the new Ashley Hill station built (which they've left room for with the new line alignments up the bank) which I think was also part of the Henbury loop phase of Metrowest, which i'm guessing would need some signalling changes for the new platforms there too?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 10, 2018, 06:57:24 pm
Apologies if asked before, but will the improvements be sufficient to enable a new Henbury loop service to be run, or will there need to be further works on the mainline?

From my understanding, the main issue with the Henbury Loop is that the now retired head of the unelected local enterprise partnership decided that just a "spur" to Henbury was best for the likes of us. To do this they cited a load of dated stats regarding railway viability and just as questionable costings. This decision also happened to please the Port of Bristol Authority who opposed the loop. I'm not saying they had any undue influence with the now retired head of the LEP, just thought I'd add this information.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on October 10, 2018, 07:17:28 pm
From my understanding, the main issue with the Henbury Loop is that the now retired head of the unelected local enterprise partnership decided that just a "spur" to Henbury was best for the likes of us. To do this they cited a load of dated stats regarding railway viability and just as questionable costings. This decision also happened to please the Port of Bristol Authority who opposed the loop. I'm not saying they had any undue influence with the now retired head of the LEP, just thought I'd add this information.

He might have changed his tune now that he works for the company that want to build houses on the airfield. There are still plans for a deep water container terminal at Avonmouth (https://www.bristolport.co.uk/trades/containers/deep-sea-container-terminal) though. In the unlikely event of that actually happening, the line would see a big increase in freight, hence the Port's opposition.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 10, 2018, 08:12:44 pm
I heard the opposition from the port authority lay with the increase need to close the level crossing at the port gate should the loop materialise. Bridging the gap might cost a bit but bridges and flyovers seem all the rage with Metrobust these days and this would, after all, actually for something useful.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 10, 2018, 08:22:06 pm
Let's hope now with his change of tune and employment (!) the way more sensible loop option is brought back into consideration...

Meanwhile, couple more pics from yesterday at LWH, looking towards Dr Days

Thanks Grahame for sorting the upload issues  :)



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on October 10, 2018, 08:51:24 pm
Apologies if asked before, but will the improvements be sufficient to enable a new Henbury loop service to be run, or will there need to be further works on the mainline?

Once the four tracking is finished and the signalling commissioned that should be it as far as the Filton Bank lines are concerned, as trains from the Henbury loop will be able to access all platforms at FIT, and also onto BPW

The issue will be on the loop itself between FIT / BPW and SAR, getting that re-signalled for passenger train use - that's if they decide to go for the full loop option rather than just running them to Henbury and back

And also if they want to get the new Ashley Hill station built (which they've left room for with the new line alignments up the bank) which I think was also part of the Henbury loop phase of Metrowest, which i'm guessing would need some signalling changes for the new platforms there too?


I thought that some signalling enhancements were carried out a few years ago to allow pax services to run the loop when works in conjunction with platform 3 at FIT undertaken. Previously when pax were run on the loop a Pilotman had to be used between Avonmouth and Chittenham.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 10, 2018, 10:00:50 pm
I thought that some signalling enhancements were carried out a few years ago to allow pax services to run the loop when works in conjunction with platform 3 at FIT undertaken. Previously when pax were run on the loop a Pilotman had to be used between Avonmouth and Chittenham.

Be interested to find out if anyone knows what enhancements were done?  Would certainly mean less work in the long run which 'sometimes' helps make for a better case for re-instatement!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 15, 2018, 06:07:11 pm
Had another look at Filton Abbey Wood today. Noticeable progress but still some way to go it would seem. Bit grey and drizzly for a good photo today but hope this will give some impression of where things are at.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 15, 2018, 06:13:54 pm
Looking good.  My 'insider contact' tells me the signalling work is proceeding to plan as well.  Only 11 days to start of commissioning :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on October 15, 2018, 07:21:52 pm
I hope Tony is polishing up his new moniker for 12 days time. The suspense and excitement over this is almost as exciting as the event itself !!! ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on October 15, 2018, 07:36:46 pm
I hope Tony is polishing up his new moniker for 12 days time. The suspense and excitement over this is almost as exciting as the event itself !!! ::)

Good grief, I had forgotten that! I'm not back in the same continent for another 8 days - it's going to be tight!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on October 15, 2018, 07:39:06 pm
I hope Tony is polishing up his new moniker for 12 days time. The suspense and excitement over this is almost as exciting as the event itself !!! ::)

Good grief, I had forgotten that! I'm not back in the same continent for another 8 days - it's going to be tight!

Of course you could just change it from an exhortation into a kind of statement, and it would remain appropriate. Now, that alters the stress when spoken, but is there a way of indicating it in writing? I think not, apart from omitting the exclamation.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on October 15, 2018, 07:53:45 pm

Of course you could just change it from an exhortation into a kind of statement, and it would remain appropriate. Now, that alters the stress when spoken, but is there a way of indicating it in writing? I think not, apart from omitting the exclamation.

Steady now, stuving! That exclamation mark, and the comma, were added to the original handle to celebrate the then Transport Minister, Justine Greening, giving the go-ahead to the project, and sending then Railway Minister Theresa Villiers to tell everybody and pose for the Post. It wasn't random, and took months of high-level meetings. I'm going to run the next amendment through the GRIP process, just in case.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 15, 2018, 08:01:59 pm
Had another look at Filton Abbey Wood today. Noticeable progress but still some way to go it would seem. Bit grey and drizzly for a good photo today but hope this will give some impression of where things are at.

Hmm. Done well, the hoop-topped railings and faux-coursed-rubble walls could have been quite attractive, but somehow the sum of the parts is much less than the whole; it looks like it's all just happened, rather than being designed. I presume NR have architects, but presumably they prefer not to use them. How much more it would have cost?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on October 15, 2018, 08:05:32 pm

Of course you could just change it from an exhortation into a kind of statement, and it would remain appropriate. Now, that alters the stress when spoken, but is there a way of indicating it in writing? I think not, apart from omitting the exclamation.

Steady now, stuving! That exclamation mark, and the comma, were added to the original handle to celebrate the then Transport Minister, Justine Greening, giving the go-ahead to the project, and sending then Railway Minister Theresa Villiers to tell everybody and pose for the Post. It wasn't random, and took months of high-level meetings. I'm going to run the next amendment through the GRIP process, just in case.

You can keep the exclamation - it's not confined to exhortatory uses, which is why I added the comment like that. To clarify, you can say "it is four track now" as a plain statement, or "it is four track, now the waiting is over!" which is still a statement. It all comes down to how you see the excised phrase as a grammatical entity.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 15, 2018, 08:10:17 pm
...but please remember the actual commissioning date is the 19 November 2018 ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 15, 2018, 08:56:12 pm
"Four Track Already!"


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on October 15, 2018, 10:00:03 pm
Fanfare for four fortified finished tracks.....FFFFFT.....which is exactly what you would hear when I put any sort of brass instrument to my lips. I would play it on my organ but fear another outing of BNM's .....'ooooh Matron'! photograph. It might frighten the iron horses too and cause the ladies to reach for their lace hankies and smelling salts.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 15, 2018, 10:43:32 pm
I thought that some signalling enhancements were carried out a few years ago to allow pax services to run the loop when works in conjunction with platform 3 at FIT undertaken. Previously when pax were run on the loop a Pilotman had to be used between Avonmouth and Chittenham.

Be interested to find out if anyone knows what enhancements were done?  Would certainly mean less work in the long run which 'sometimes' helps make for a better case for re-instatement!
I'll have a look through my records, but it might take a few days (probably at the coming weekend).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 15, 2018, 11:00:33 pm
Had another look at Filton Abbey Wood today. Noticeable progress but still some way to go it would seem. Bit grey and drizzly for a good photo today but hope this will give some impression of where things are at.


Certainly a big improvement since I took that vid last Tuesday...  am assuming that's a lot of the work that was done over this weekends possession, as less than a week ago there was no line running thru the new platform 4 and the platform itself was a lot less closer to completion than it's looking now

The pace is certainly picking up now we're at the final countdown!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 15, 2018, 11:04:17 pm
I thought that some signalling enhancements were carried out a few years ago to allow pax services to run the loop when works in conjunction with platform 3 at FIT undertaken. Previously when pax were run on the loop a Pilotman had to be used between Avonmouth and Chittenham.

Be interested to find out if anyone knows what enhancements were done?  Would certainly mean less work in the long run which 'sometimes' helps make for a better case for re-instatement!
I'll have a look through my records, but it might take a few days (probably at the coming weekend).

Thanks SandT...  be really interesting to find out.  Always better to hear the facts from someone who actually knows rather than the constantly inaccurate posts in various new reports!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on October 16, 2018, 12:27:42 am
Electrified Track, Now!

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 16, 2018, 04:15:26 pm
I thought that some signalling enhancements were carried out a few years ago to allow pax services to run the loop when works in conjunction with platform 3 at FIT undertaken. Previously when pax were run on the loop a Pilotman had to be used between Avonmouth and Chittenham.

Be interested to find out if anyone knows what enhancements were done?  Would certainly mean less work in the long run which 'sometimes' helps make for a better case for re-instatement!
I'll have a look through my records, but it might take a few days (probably at the coming weekend).

Had a look through the records I have.  They are dated 1992.  They show the single line loop from Filton Abbey Wood to Filton West as signalled to passenger line standards using Track Circuit Block (TCB).  Nothing to stop passenger services using that line and the double track to Holesmouth Junction, which is also signalled to passenger line standards using TCB.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on October 16, 2018, 06:07:21 pm
I thought that some signalling enhancements were carried out a few years ago to allow pax services to run the loop when works in conjunction with platform 3 at FIT undertaken. Previously when pax were run on the loop a Pilotman had to be used between Avonmouth and Chittenham.

Be interested to find out if anyone knows what enhancements were done?  Would certainly mean less work in the long run which 'sometimes' helps make for a better case for re-instatement!
I'll have a look through my records, but it might take a few days (probably at the coming weekend).

Had a look through the records I have.  They are dated 1992.  They show the single line loop from Filton Abbey Wood to Filton West as signalled to passenger line standards using Track Circuit Block (TCB).  Nothing to stop passenger services using that line and the double track to Holesmouth Junction, which is also signalled to passenger line standards using TCB.

If I remember correctly the track between Avonmouth Station and Holesmouth Junction or Chittenham as I stated was signalled for through running but as the routing Avonmouth to Parkway had a number of consecutive ground signals a Pilotman was employed between Avonmouth and Holesmouth. I travelled in both directions at the time into Bristol on a Cardiff - Pompey service from Patchway via the curve to the closed Filton North Platform and from BRI to Parkway on a Voyager. We picked up the Pilotman at Avonmouth who rode to Holesmouth/Chittenham where the Pilotman detrained to pilot another Voyager to Avonmouth and thence the Voyager would continue to BRI.

The Severn Riviera line was RR'ed that weekend with diverted services passing at Clifton Down.

The enhancements I mentioned was merely to replace the ground signals by colour light 3 aspect signals. I WAS surprised by the use of a pilotman on the occasion as I had travelled over the route on specials previously with no problem but I presume with a number of movements involved it was as a precaution as I was informed NR didn't take kindly to passenger trains being signalled past more that 1 consecutive ground signal on a signalled routing.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 16, 2018, 06:22:01 pm
Ah.  The reason for that was that there is no signalled movement to/from the Severn Beach line to the Filton Lines at Holesmouth Junction.  Although the track layout allows that, it has to be handsignalled if required.  Nothing really to do with the shunt signals.  Typical BR cost cutting excercise as neither the freight sector nor regional railways sector would pay for the necessary signalling.

I believe that arrangement has now been altered.  I'll see if a friend of mine can get hold of a current signalling plan.  Watch this space.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 16, 2018, 08:06:34 pm
Perhaps not 100% a propos of this thread, but waiting at Clifton Down today I noticed that many of the sleepers there appear to be made of something akin to over-ripe pear. I am no expert, as you all know, but with my layman's view of the world I can't help thinking this may not be the best substance for keeping things in gauge. Is anyone aware if there are any plans to do any maintenance on the Beach line during the upcoming undoubtedly utterly essential three week closure?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: DaveHarries on October 17, 2018, 10:43:07 am
In regards the new layout at Filton Abbey Wood it seems that trains won't use the new platform - Platform 4 - immediately after the works of the blockade of 27th October - 18th November are complete. The RealTimeTrains website suggests that the new platform will come into use on 09th December and the site also suggests that the new layout created by the addition of the extra platform will give the following stopping arrangements:

Platform 1: trains from Bristol Parkway or Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads
Platform 2: trains to Bristol Parkway
Platform 3: trains from Cardiff Central which are not using Platform 1
Platform 4: trains to Cardiff Central

The arrangements, albeit subject to change, for trains stopping at Filton Abbey Wood on 10th December can be found at http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/FIT/2018/12/10/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt to give some idea.

Cheers,
Dave


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Clan Line on October 19, 2018, 04:16:01 pm
I have to wonder if the budget for Filton Bank would stretch to a new bike shed at Filton Abbey Wood - they seem to need one ! (I don't think the young lady in the photo was the owner of any of the tethered bikes)

(http://i64.tinypic.com/24depfa.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 19, 2018, 06:07:56 pm
The demand is clearly there.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on October 19, 2018, 08:22:58 pm
There are several bike boxes in the car park, no sure what the arrangement is to use them but I do agree that a bike rack and security camera would be money spent, as would a coffee stall (opportunity for someone?) and a small ticket office (why not merge them).

Before anyone wonders, Filton Abbey Wood has a very high throughput and could justify being manned with some basic services.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 19, 2018, 09:55:52 pm
Filton Abbey Wood does have a peak time ticket kiosk and the very manned MOD entrance next door with regular uniformed passengers on the platform does give a feeling of security. I massively miss the old coffee trike at Redland Station, seeing something similar at Filton (and please again at Redland) would be very civilised.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: tramway on October 23, 2018, 11:05:44 am
Platform 1 also needs enlarging, at peak times it gets very cosy and has done for a few years.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on October 26, 2018, 07:38:24 pm
I have to wonder if the budget for Filton Bank would stretch to a new bike shed at Filton Abbey Wood - they seem to need one ! (I don't think the young lady in the photo was the owner of any of the tethered bikes)

(http://i64.tinypic.com/24depfa.jpg)

That sign next to one of the cycles chained to the railings - I presume it is purely decorative?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 26, 2018, 08:00:40 pm
Only a few hours to go to start of FTN.... :D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on October 26, 2018, 08:09:55 pm
And now the end is near..

Any budding lyricists out there to pen a parody along the lines (pun intended) of 'they did it,their way' for Tony in a tuxedo to perform on the morning of Nov 19th ??


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 26, 2018, 08:21:45 pm
And now the end is near..
And so they lay the final track work ...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on October 26, 2018, 08:41:28 pm
Only a few hours to go to start of FTN.... :D

Only the start? This forum has been putting up with him for many years already!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 26, 2018, 08:57:25 pm
Returns, I've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
I went where I had to go
And saw it through without reservation


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on October 26, 2018, 09:40:09 pm
"Regrets, I've had a few
And then two more, not my intention
I did what I had to do
Then had one more and lost direction"

© Four Pints, Now!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on October 27, 2018, 01:22:24 pm
#Now there are eight steps to Filton.
Just listen and you will plainly see.
And as trains travel on and things do go wrong.

Just start with GRIP 1, 2 and 3.

GRIP 1 - There's output to define.

GRIP 2 - It's feasibility.

GRIP 3 - You argue over options.

Yeah! That sure seems like forever to me.

The formula for Filton's very simple.
Just follow the rules and you will see.
As patience starts to give and we lose the will to live.

It's time for GRIP 4, 5 and 6.

GRIP 4 - You finally agree a scheme.

GRIP 5 - You dither over design.

GRIP 6 - Test construction and commission.

At this rate we'll open in 2023.

Finally the race is nearly over.
The marathon of GRIP is nearly done.
Our ducks are in a row, and tracklaying starts to flow.

Only GRIP 7 and 8 to go.

GRIP 7 - We're handing back the scheme.

GRIP 8 - You close the project out.

In the distance, commuter eyes are smiling.

Four tracks as far as the eye can see.
All clear for Portishead and Henbury.
So let's rewind to GRIP 1, 2 and 3...#

(bop bop boo, bop bop boo...)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 27, 2018, 02:41:20 pm
I hope our regular Bristol area correspondents will be able to post lots of photographs of the work progressing over the next three weeks?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on October 27, 2018, 04:15:51 pm
 Here is one Network Rail shared earlier this afternoon on Twitter
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1056141666992734208?s=20


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 27, 2018, 09:23:58 pm
Here is one Network Rail shared earlier this afternoon on Twitter
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1056141666992734208?s=20

Good to see the new Dr Days junction (re)taking shape!

Loads of ballast wagons across the M32 bridge when I crawled into town underneath it earlier too


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 27, 2018, 10:00:08 pm
....and for those that don't do twitter?.... ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rower40 on October 28, 2018, 08:27:44 am
This would seem to be an appropriate place to post a warning to users of Filton Abbey Wood.
Between the end of the Filton 4-track blockade (19th November) and the last day of the May-to-December 2018 timetable (8th December), there will be 4 platforms in use at Filton Abbey Wood, but the electronic timetable will still have the OLD platform numbers.

So some trains will be physically unable to use their timetabled platform.  Others could use their timetabled one, but would have to 'weave' to do so.

The specifics:
In the bad old 2-track days:
Platform 1 - all trains towards Temple Meads, from both Parkway and Patchway
Platform 2 - all trains towards Parkway
Platform 3 - all trains towards Patchway and South Wales

After the 4-track layout opens
Platform 1 - all trains from Parkway; also (by exception) Patchway to Temple Meads non-stop trains (i.e. not stopping at Lawrence Hill or Stapleton Road)
Platform 2 - all trains towards Parkway; also (by exception) Temple Meads to Patchway fast trains
Platform 3 - Patchway to Temple Meads trains
Platform 4 - Temple Meads to Patchway trains

I'm prepared to wager that the CIS screens will be switched off for those 3 weeks!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 28, 2018, 09:37:10 am
Are STP (Short Term Plan) diagrams reflecting the changes not going to be issued for the intervening period?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on October 28, 2018, 11:30:49 am
today's offer from Network Rail

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1056483270563676161



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 28, 2018, 12:56:01 pm
Quote
...installing track stones (ballast)

By all means explain what ballast is; but it is ballast, not bloody track stones. Maybe NR have drafted in some work experience people to do their social media over the weekend? For their benefit: patronising is when you talk down to people.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rogerw on October 28, 2018, 05:44:53 pm
On behalf of those of us who don't do Twitter may I ask that someone posts the links on a regular basis.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 28, 2018, 05:57:32 pm
Simply click on the links and you'll be taken to the relevant Twitter post. You don't need to have a Twitter account or register or anything.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 28, 2018, 06:42:36 pm
I hope our regular Bristol area correspondents will be able to post lots of photographs of the work progressing over the next three weeks?

Weather permitting I'll have a pootle down to Filton Abbey Wood station after work tomorrow lunchtime and take a snap of (hopefully) some progress there.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on October 28, 2018, 08:12:46 pm
....and for those that don't do twitter?.... ::)

Not sure really. I managed the step change from ink well (I was the monitor in class 3 A) to fountain pen.I didn't quite make the jump to cartidge pen, though suffering many stained shirts, so I share your sense of isolation.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 28, 2018, 09:06:34 pm
....and for those that don't do twitter?.... ::)

Not sure really. I managed the step change from ink well (I was the monitor in class 3 A) to fountain pen.I didn't quite make the jump to cartidge pen, though suffering many stained shirts, so I share your sense of isolation.



Don't get me started on cartridge and fountain pens at school. Being left handed I would regularly smudge a lot of what I had just written. A biro might have helped there but I just had to adjust the way I held the pen and angle the paper to limit the damage. It still accounts for my rather unfortunate handwriting to this day.

Back on topic, there does still seem to be a lot to do during the current possession despite undoubted recent progress. Just what would happen if an unexpected problem emerges resulting in completion taking more time than allocated?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 28, 2018, 09:17:05 pm
Indelible pencil. It's the way forward.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 28, 2018, 09:29:13 pm
Indelible pencil. It's the way forward.

Not sure my school, or anywhere, had any in the 1960s. Would have been a cool space agey sort of thing to impress my classmates with though. We still had plenty of fad toys and things then. Some things don't change!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 28, 2018, 09:33:02 pm
Wikipedia says they've been around since the 1870s. Which doesn't mean your school had any in the 1960s, or even mine in the 1970s and 80s.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 29, 2018, 12:14:54 pm
Went and had a look at Narroways this morning... nothing to see really, just a regular four track main line.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 29, 2018, 01:03:07 pm
!!!!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 29, 2018, 02:34:04 pm
It's beginning to look a lot like......erm, a 4 platform station.

Busy, busy when I got there, lots going on including work on the old platforms. Here's a few pics, first ones looking south towards Bristol, the last one looking north towards wild uncharted lands.





Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 29, 2018, 02:35:47 pm
And one more as it wouldn't fit on the previous post. This one looking north.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 29, 2018, 02:41:40 pm
Sorry abound the picture quality, I couldn't really see what I was taking due to the glare on my screen from the sun. 😕


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on October 29, 2018, 03:18:12 pm
Today from Network Rail

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1056909295814668290?s=21


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 29, 2018, 03:24:10 pm
Looking a lot more hacked about around old Horfield station where the new Horfield junction is being built between the new main & relief lines

Note the old down main has been lifted and moved across onto where the new down relief will be, both north and south of Constable Road bridge...



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 29, 2018, 03:25:58 pm
And the same going on south of the bridge down towards SRD...



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 29, 2018, 03:28:30 pm
Then just south of FIT.  First 2 pics looking north towards the station, and finally 1 looking south showing where the old Filton South junction to platform 3 has now been severed ready for the line to continue directly south


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 29, 2018, 04:03:58 pm
Thanks for posting those photographs, Metalrail.  At least it was a nice day, if a bit cold.  Keep them coming.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on October 30, 2018, 08:17:13 am

Latest NR update
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1057181788534202368?s=21


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 30, 2018, 01:32:32 pm
Nipped out at lunch to get some of the works around LWH / Dr Days

First 4 are of the new (finally reinstated after 34 years!) Dr Days junction, taken from Church Rd & Ducie Rd...



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 30, 2018, 01:38:20 pm
Then LWH itself

First 2 pics are a comparison - first pic from exactly 3 weeks ago, second from today showing the progress made.  Finally a 4 track station again, albeit with just 2 platforms  :(

Last 2 pics show the new signal I noticed installed on the new down main just before Church Rd bridge, with a feather for the avoiding lines from Dr Days to N Somerset junction


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: dfm1a on October 31, 2018, 08:54:40 am
Nice to see four tracks back at Lawrence Hill, although I notice that the points layout is the same as previously i.e. you can only cross from Reliefs to Mains in the Down direction and from Mains to Reliefs in the Up direction.  Why has the layout not been constructed so you can cross from Mains to Reliefs and Reliefs to Mains in both Up and Down directions (per the layout prior to 1984?) Thanks in advance


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on October 31, 2018, 09:02:31 am
For ease of reference S&T's excellent diagrams can be found at posts #322 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg236581#msg236581) and #455  (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg248151#msg248151) (these are links)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 31, 2018, 09:15:36 am
Nice to see four tracks back at Lawrence Hill, although I notice that the points layout is the same as previously i.e. you can only cross from Reliefs to Mains in the Down direction and from Mains to Reliefs in the Up direction.  Why has the layout not been constructed so you can cross from Mains to Reliefs and Reliefs to Mains in both Up and Down directions (per the layout prior to 1984?) Thanks in advance

No need, as that facilty is available just around the curve at Bristol East Junction.

And, Welcome to the forum.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on October 31, 2018, 01:20:03 pm
Afternoon everyone,

First time post here. It's really warms my heart to see the UFM and DFM lines reinstated from Lockleaze, and of course the former Up and Down Reliefs from Lockleaze north.

I travelled over what was then the DFM on its' last day of use, back in February 1984.
Here's my shot of the old B152 signal on that final evening. Note that it had three Feathers, compared to the new version.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/4938596167/in/photolist-8wpAzM (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/4938596167/in/photolist-8wpAzM)

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on October 31, 2018, 01:24:14 pm
Welcome to the Forum from another Bristolian amongst the many on here Bristol born.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on October 31, 2018, 01:26:06 pm
Welcome to the Forum from another Bristolian amongst the many on here Bristol born.

Thank you - although I now live in deepest Huntingdon!.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 31, 2018, 01:40:42 pm
Not much to add to all the lovely pictures of trackwork people have been posting - so here's one from a different angle. Lawrence Hill is, quite unambiguously, closed.

(...but Lidl isn't. Got a decent pumpkin for 59p!)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: dfm1a on October 31, 2018, 02:02:12 pm
Thanks to both of you (Ellen and Sand T) for the info you have provided.  I guess the facility that existed prior to 1984 to move from Main to Relief and vice-versa in either direction between Dr Days and Lawrence Hill) was merely a duplication of the facility elsewhere and therefore the only potential benefit of reducing the four-tracks to two meant that the unnecessary pointwork could be eliminated.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on October 31, 2018, 02:53:22 pm
Thanks to both of you (Ellen and Sand T) for the info you have provided.  I guess the facility that existed prior to 1984 to move from Main to Relief and vice-versa in either direction between Dr Days and Lawrence Hill) was merely a duplication of the facility elsewhere and therefore the only potential benefit of reducing the four-tracks to two meant that the unnecessary pointwork could be eliminated.

Are you sure there were then four tracks from Temple Meads into Dr. Day's Junction? There were only two up to the 1950s, and with four tracks north of the junction those crossovers were a necessity. There was also a signal box where the two Main Line tracks are now - I don't know when that was removed and the Filton Mains extended southwards, as I haven't found have a suitable map.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rogerw on October 31, 2018, 03:14:01 pm
The four tracks from Bristol East Junction to Dr Days were provided as part of the Bristol re-signalling in 1970 which also realigned the curve, increasing its radius and thus easing the speed limit


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on October 31, 2018, 03:17:49 pm
Here's a shot of mine from 1984, one of the last loco movements along the former UFM...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/8675060770/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/8675060770/)

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 31, 2018, 03:19:42 pm
Here's a shot of mine from 1984, one of the last loco movements along the former UFM...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/8675060770/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/8675060770/)

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.
Thanks for those pics Bob, and looking thru the others on your photostream you've linked to there's also some other great ones around BRI and LWH from the 70s and early 80s as it was then.  Great to see!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: dfm1a on October 31, 2018, 03:45:47 pm
stuving, I was referring to the layout post 1970 when Bristol Panel opened.  There were most certainly four tracks from BTM to Dr Days then - I've seen the Yellow Perils on the archive in the SRS website.  Thus the pointwork between Dr Days and Lawrence Hill could most certainly have been rationalised to only allow movement from Reliefs to Mains in the Down direction and vice-versa in the Up direction - as has been the case since the track rationalisation in 1984


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on October 31, 2018, 04:10:35 pm
Here's a shot of mine from 1984, one of the last loco movements along the former UFM...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/8675060770/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/8675060770/)

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.
Thanks for those pics Bob, and looking thru the others on your photostream you've linked to there's also some other great ones around BRI and LWH from the 70s and early 80s as it was then.  Great to see!

Thank you very much, Sir. I have a great many more negs to scan, sadly though in most cases I won't have full information, as my notebooks and prints went several years ago :(.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on October 31, 2018, 04:11:34 pm
stuving, I was referring to the layout post 1970 when Bristol Panel opened.  There were most certainly four tracks from BTM to Dr Days then - I've seen the Yellow Perils on the archive in the SRS website.  Thus the pointwork between Dr Days and Lawrence Hill could most certainly have been rationalised to only allow movement from Reliefs to Mains in the Down direction and vice-versa in the Up direction - as has been the case since the track rationalisation in 1984

If the question this time was "is it worth adding the extra crossovers for a small gain in flexibility that would be rarely used?" - answered quite reasonably no - then in the 70s it would have been "is it worth taking out these existing crossovers that do give a small gain in flexibility even if it would be rarely used?". I can imagine the answer then was yes, though there may have been some further arguments to do with how the tracks from Temple Meads were used at the time, or what was planned then but never happened.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 31, 2018, 05:20:19 pm
Dr.Days Bridge Junction prior to Bristol Resignalling

(https://railphotoprints.uk/img/s/v-3/p263096358-3.jpg)

(http://www.bristolsteam64.co.uk/wpimages/4d509067a04.jpg)


This photograph is dated 02 April 1970 and shows the revised alignment

(https://www.rail-online.co.uk/img/s/v-3/p1546853212-3.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on October 31, 2018, 05:24:43 pm
There was four tracks from Bristol East to Dr Days and also four tracks from Dr Days to North Somerset Junction with a Main to Relief double junction on this, Rhubarb Curve, also because the line towards Bath was Up, Down (to/from Bristol East Depot Up Yard), Up Main, Down Main. The Up and Down may have been designated either Relief or Reception lines for the Bristol East Depot Up Yard as we had the Bristol East Down Yard with its association Up and Down Reception Lines. Dr Days Bridge Junction Signal Box, as I understand was its full name also had a Mains to Reliefs double junctions in both directions too. Then as we travel up towards Filton we also had Stapleton Road Signal Box which also had Mains to Reliefs in both directions too.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on October 31, 2018, 05:49:33 pm
There was four tracks from Bristol East to Dr Days and also four tracks from Dr Days to North Somerset Junction with a Main to Relief double junction on this, Rhubarb Curve, also because the line towards Bath was Up, Down (to/from Bristol East Depot Up Yard), Up Main, Down Main. The Up and Down may have been designated either Relief or Reception lines for the Bristol East Depot Up Yard as we had the Bristol East Down Yard with its association Up and Down Reception Lines. Dr Days Bridge Junction Signal Box, as I understand was its full name also had a Mains to Reliefs double junctions in both directions too. Then as we travel up towards Filton we also had Stapleton Road Signal Box which also had Mains to Reliefs in both directions too.
Yeah as there were still 4 lines crossing feeder road at that time up to the resignalling weren't there?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 31, 2018, 07:54:18 pm
Took a couple of photos this evening, in failing light.

First one is from Constable Road looking south, with what I presume to be one of the 75mph crossovers on the right;
Second is from Constable Road looking north towards Bonnington Walk;
Third is from Bonnington Walk looking over the site of Horfield Halt towards Constable Road, showing the extensive work done on the right hand side of the cutting;
Fourth is from Bonnington Walk looking north towards Filton Abbey Wood, again showing the extensive work done on the side of the cutting.

Still plenty to do!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 31, 2018, 08:02:14 pm
It's looking blimmin' good but yes, still loads to do. Unthinkable of unthinkables, what if unforeseen factors (bad weather for example) means the work is still unfinished at the end of the blockade? Is there a plan B?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 31, 2018, 08:29:47 pm
It's looking blimmin' good but yes, still loads to do. Unthinkable of unthinkables, what if unforeseen factors (bad weather for example) means the work is still unfinished at the end of the blockade? Is there a plan B?

Yes.  Carry on Matron..... ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 31, 2018, 09:04:04 pm
It's looking blimmin' good but yes, still loads to do. Unthinkable of unthinkables, what if unforeseen factors (bad weather for example) means the work is still unfinished at the end of the blockade? Is there a plan B?

Yes.  Carry on Matron..... ;D

I do feel a little better now.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: DaveHarries on October 31, 2018, 10:37:01 pm
Last 2 pics show the new signal I noticed installed on the new down main just before Church Rd bridge, with a feather for the avoiding lines from Dr Days to N Somerset junction
On the matter of new signals I notice that a new one has gone in on the new main line at the northern end of Stapleton Road station: I noticed it while a passenger in a car on the M32 earlier. Also it surprises me, looking at the plans of the new layout, that an additional crossover hasn't been put in just south of Narroways Junction so that if, say, a train broke down at Stapleton Road station then trains on the Severn Beach line could be rerouted onto the new main line which would serve as an avoiding route. Would mean a feather being added to signal BL1855 (as I think signal B360, the last signal before the junction for trains coming from Montpelier toward Temple Meads, is now numbered) but would provide flexibility. Similarly an option to route trains on the new northbound line onto the Severn Beach line.

As things are at present (and, by the looks of it, will remain) a broken down train at Stapleton Road brings the whole Severn Beach service to a halt.

Dave


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on October 31, 2018, 11:58:46 pm
When I referred above to a signal box that had to be removed, it was an earlier Dr Day's Bridge Junction box I was talking about. You can see it on this map of 1912 (https://maps.nls.uk/view/109729819#zoom=5&lat=1631&lon=9329&layers=BT), and it's still there in the 30s on maps with a smaller scale where you can't count tracks exactly. In the pursuit of further unnecessary details about this track alignment, I also found a locking table on s-r-s.org.uk dated Drawn: 2.1932, Issued 10:1956. Tha's suggestive that the reworking of the 1912 layout into the pre-1970 one was planned pre-war, but done afterwards. Then I found a set of 1950s 1:1250 plans on old-maps.co.uk, showing this intermediate layout and suggesting it was in place before 1951 (though note that their maps can't all be dated right).

It's not so obvious from S&TE's pictures, but the current four tracks from Bristol TM run to the right (west) of the signal box and over its site. The two tracks you can just see in the top picture connected to the sidings, which were then west of the running lines. That's also where the previous two-track main line ran, with connections to the sidings - then east of the through lines - on the far side of the signal box. That box wasn't there, its precursor was rotated parallel with the loop and would have blocked both the current Down Filton Main and two or more of the pre-1970 lines.

So the through lines were doubled and shifted to the other side of the central signal box site, then back when it was removed, and each time the sidings swapped over too. That's a lot of effort for a rather short life-time, apparently 20-25 years, and not just by today's standards either. Oh, and Dr Day's Bridge itself was realigned around 1955-1960 too.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 01, 2018, 08:18:57 am
Don't rely too much on dates on signalling drawings.  Quite often they were (are) altered some years in advance, or after, works take place.  This especially applies to signalbox diagrams.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 01, 2018, 08:21:07 am
Last 2 pics show the new signal I noticed installed on the new down main just before Church Rd bridge, with a feather for the avoiding lines from Dr Days to N Somerset junction
On the matter of new signals I notice that a new one has gone in on the new main line at the northern end of Stapleton Road station: I noticed it while a passenger in a car on the M32 earlier. Also it surprises me, looking at the plans of the new layout, that an additional crossover hasn't been put in just south of Narroways Junction so that if, say, a train broke down at Stapleton Road station then trains on the Severn Beach line could be rerouted onto the new main line which would serve as an avoiding route. Would mean a feather being added to signal BL1855 (as I think signal B360, the last signal before the junction for trains coming from Montpelier toward Temple Meads, is now numbered) but would provide flexibility. Similarly an option to route trains on the new northbound line onto the Severn Beach line.

As things are at present (and, by the looks of it, will remain) a broken down train at Stapleton Road brings the whole Severn Beach service to a halt.

Dave

Dave, some good points there (pun intended), but you can't cater for every possible scenario, as each comes at a cost that in most cases doesn't 'wash its face' in terms of affordibility and ongoing liability.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: dfm1a on November 01, 2018, 01:14:54 pm
Prior to 1970, there was an additional crossover(s) at Narroways to take trains onto the Mains from the Reliefs and, if I recall correctly vice-versa.  This was removed when Bristol was resignalled and the Mains were plain-lined instead and controlled by Automatic Signals


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: DaveHarries on November 02, 2018, 10:00:30 pm
Dave, some good points there (pun intended), but you can't cater for every possible scenario, as each comes at a cost that in most cases doesn't 'wash its face' in terms of affordibility and ongoing liability.
No I guess not. The other option, perhaps would be to have bi-directional signalling through Platform 2 (the Temple Meads-bound platform) at Lawrence Hill to allow northbound stopping services to use that platform instead of Platform 1 if the need arises. Perhaps someone will think of it at a later date.

Meanwhile a look from the bridge on St. Philips Causeway this afternoon "led" (pun intended) me to notice that Signal BL1818 (ex. signal B131) was switched off: I guess it awaits a feather in relation to the new crossover following reworking of the junction just south of Lawrence Hill.

Dave


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 04, 2018, 05:58:03 pm
Bit difficult to get a good angle on this, but the attached image shows old and new versions of signal BL1855, on the Severn Beach branch just before Narroways. I was intrigued to see that the new signal seems to have two aspects, whereas the old one just had one - or were my eyes deceiving me?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 04, 2018, 06:55:19 pm
Bit difficult to get a good angle on this, but the attached image shows old and new versions of signal BL1855, on the Severn Beach branch just before Narroways. I was intrigued to see that the new signal seems to have two aspects, whereas the old one just had one - or were my eyes deceiving me?

Just perhaps the new signal BL1855 is just perhaps a 4 aspect signal whereas just perhaps the old signal was only a 3 aspect just perhaps.  ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 04, 2018, 07:39:10 pm
Bit difficult to get a good angle on this, but the attached image shows old and new versions of signal BL1855, on the Severn Beach branch just before Narroways. I was intrigued to see that the new signal seems to have two aspects, whereas the old one just had one - or were my eyes deceiving me?

Just perhaps the new signal BL1855 is just perhaps a 4 aspect signal whereas just perhaps the old signal was only a 3 aspect just perhaps.  ;D


OK, well you keep hold of the potato peeler with both hands and maybe we can make this work. :)

In the meantime, can anyone with S&T knowledge explain the significance of the change?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 04, 2018, 08:06:02 pm
Was the old one only single aspect? I recall watching it change from red to green just as the driver had mad it out of the cab. Old single aspects couldn't do that. The old one certainly wasn't three aspect.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 04, 2018, 08:11:25 pm
What it looks like is the new one has two aspects with standard short hoods, while the old one also has two aspects with an extended hood only on the lower (red) one. So maybe that's what it is - it was felt that the red needed screening to improve sighting, but it wasn't felt necessary for the green as it's less safety-critical (and easier to see). LEDs need less help with sighting, so those extended hoods are getting a lot rarer.

That's my guess, anyway - definitely not an expert opinion.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 04, 2018, 08:13:47 pm
What it looks like is the new one has two aspects with standard short hoods, while the old one also has two aspects with an extended hood only on the lower (red) one. So maybe that's what it is - it was felt that the red needed screening to improve sighting, but it wasn't felt necessary for the green as it's less safety-critical (and easier to see). LEDs need less help with sighting, so those extended hoods are getting a lot rarer.

That's my guess, anyway - definitely not an expert opinion.

I had looked at RS's picture again as you were typing, and had come to a similar thought about the hooding.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 04, 2018, 09:33:09 pm
What it looks like is the new one has two aspects with standard short hoods, while the old one also has two aspects with an extended hood only on the lower (red) one. So maybe that's what it is - it was felt that the red needed screening to improve sighting, but it wasn't felt necessary for the green as it's less safety-critical (and easier to see). LEDs need less help with sighting, so those extended hoods are getting a lot rarer.

That's my guess, anyway - definitely not an expert opinion.

Aha, that makes sense. Thanks.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 05, 2018, 01:14:27 pm
'You rang my lord?'

The new signalling on the Filton 4T project is predominately 4-aspect which gives improved headways.  This is a continuation of the signalling at Bristol Parkway which is also predominately 4-aspect.  However it changes to 3-aspect in the Lawrence Hill area to link in with the Bristol Temple Meads area which is predominately 3-aspect.

So as BL1855 signal is now in the 4-aspect area it has changed from a 3-aspect signal to a 4-aspect signal.  The hoods are nothing to do with it.  The older style of LED signal had longer hoods whereas the new 'Lightweight' style have shorter hoods.  The aspects on a 3-aspect LED signal (R/Y/G) are all displayed through the lower aspect and on a 4-aspect LED signal the top aspect displays the additional double yellow aspect only (Y) or what in the trade we call the 'top yellow' or 'second yellow'.

Hope that makes sense?  Read all about it here: http://www.unipartdorman.com/assets/lightweight_signalling_handbook.pdf
Health Warning: Its a large document



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: dfm1a on November 05, 2018, 02:40:39 pm
The new signalling on the Filton 4T project is predominately 4-aspect which gives improved headways.  This is a continuation of the signalling at Bristol Parkway which is also predominately 4-aspect.  However it changes to 3-aspect in the Lawrence Hill area to link in with the Bristol Temple Meads area which is predominately 3-aspect.

Sorry, I don't know their new numbers, but, based on the above, does this 3-aspect rule also apply to the signals in the Down direction formerly known as B152, B252 at Lawrence Hill and B154, B254 at Bristol East which were previously four-aspect? Thanks in advance


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on November 05, 2018, 02:54:44 pm
Has the 4 track blockade between Temple Meads and Parkway been extended by a further week ? NRE are telling me it will be a bus between those two points up to Sunday 25th November !


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 05, 2018, 02:58:34 pm
Has the 4 track blockade between Temple Meads and Parkway been extended by a further week ? NRE are telling me it will be a bus between those two points up to Sunday 25th November !
Yeah i've been wondering the same.  On the National Rail website current engineering works it now says;

"Buses replace trains between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway / Severn Beach from Saturday 27 October until Sunday 25 November"


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 05, 2018, 03:04:45 pm
The weekends of 24/5 Nov and 1/2 Dec were part of the original blockade. NRE timetable still showing weekday trains...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on November 05, 2018, 03:31:24 pm
NRE gave me change at Bristol Parkway all day for a train to Sheffield on Mon 19 November......


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 05, 2018, 03:58:51 pm
NRE gave me change at Bristol Parkway all day for a train to Sheffield on Mon 19 November......

Still can, but you'll have to go via Swindon to get there. I think. Maybe not for XC, though, which are going via Swindon to Chelthenham Spa.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 05, 2018, 04:04:20 pm
The aspects on a 3-aspect LED signal (R/Y/G) are all displayed through the lower aspect and on a 4-aspect LED signal the top aspect displays the additional double yellow aspect only (Y) or what in the trade we call the 'top yellow' or 'second yellow'.

Hope that makes sense?  Read all about it here: http://www.unipartdorman.com/assets/lightweight_signalling_handbook.pdf
Health Warning: Its a large document


It makes sense to me (it confirms what I thought I knew already), but clarity for those to whom it doesn't make sense would be improved if one of the uses of 'aspect' was replaced with a different word. For instance if "The aspects on a 3-aspect LED signal (R/Y/G) are all displayed through the lower aspect" became "The aspects on a 3-aspect LED signal (R/Y/G) are all displayed through the lower lens". However, railway jargon, like all jargons, isn't really intended to make sense to the general public, so this doesn't actually matter!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 05, 2018, 04:35:59 pm
The document refers to apertures and aspects, so we could call it a two-aperture, 4-aspect signal.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 05, 2018, 05:00:15 pm
NRE gave me change at Bristol Parkway all day for a train to Sheffield on Mon 19 November......

Ah, I'm just looking at Severn Beach trains.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 05, 2018, 05:24:07 pm
The document refers to apertures and aspects, so we could call it a two-aperture, 4-aspect signal.

There's at least one place in the Handbook where an aperture is called an aspect (a diagram, so proof reading may not have been at fault). After so many years when aspect could be used for either sense with no ambiguities, it's going to take a long time for habits to change.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 05, 2018, 05:48:28 pm
The document refers to apertures and aspects, so we could call it a two-aperture, 4-aspect signal.

There's at least one place in the Handbook where an aperture is called an aspect (a diagram, so proof reading may not have been at fault). After so many years when aspect could be used for either sense with no ambiguities, it's going to take a long time for habits to change.

Well, after 50 years in the S&T industry, I'm certainly NOT going to change (pun intended) ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 05, 2018, 07:00:19 pm
The new signalling on the Filton 4T project is predominately 4-aspect which gives improved headways.  This is a continuation of the signalling at Bristol Parkway which is also predominately 4-aspect.  However it changes to 3-aspect in the Lawrence Hill area to link in with the Bristol Temple Meads area which is predominately 3-aspect.

Sorry, I don't know their new numbers, but, based on the above, does this 3-aspect rule also apply to the signals in the Down direction formerly known as B152, B252 at Lawrence Hill and B154, B254 at Bristol East which were previously four-aspect? Thanks in advance

In the area we are discussing the Up Line signals are 3-aspect with the transition to 4-aspect signals being at Narroway Hill Junction.  The Down Line signals are all 4-aspect as far as Bristol Temple Meads station.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 05, 2018, 07:07:52 pm
I don't know my aspect from my aperture, or at least I didn't until that very clear explanation.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on November 05, 2018, 07:34:04 pm
Aspect is what you get if you bend over naked in a chicken shed.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 05, 2018, 08:27:02 pm
Aspect is what you get if you bend over naked in a chicken shed.

 ;D And what does a Lancastrian do wi' one o' them chucky eggs? Brexit.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 06, 2018, 10:30:24 am
Has the 4 track blockade between Temple Meads and Parkway been extended by a further week ? NRE are telling me it will be a bus between those two points up to Sunday 25th November !

NRE Journey Planner is still showing trains running on Severed Beach line (sic) on 19th-23rd Nov, with buses on the weekend; it also shows trains between BRI and BPW on these dates but warns that buses replace trains until 25 Nov.

Some clarity would be nice! If they already know they are going to over-run by a week when they're less than halfway through the blockade, then that doesn't bode well for a train service this side of Xmas. I keep checking the Twitters, but nothing there except self-congratulation written in baby language.

Meanwhile, traffic between Gloucester Road and Clifton was significantly heavier than usual this morning - probably due in part to people like me who were driving because the rail replacement bus service is neither use nor ornament.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 06, 2018, 11:56:00 am
Has the 4 track blockade between Temple Meads and Parkway been extended by a further week ? NRE are telling me it will be a bus between those two points up to Sunday 25th November !

NRE Journey Planner is still showing trains running on Severed Beach line (sic) on 19th-23rd Nov, with buses on the weekend; it also shows trains between BRI and BPW on these dates but warns that buses replace trains until 25 Nov.

Some clarity would be nice! If they already know they are going to over-run by a week when they're less than halfway through the blockade, then that doesn't bode well for a train service this side of Xmas. I keep checking the Twitters, but nothing there except self-congratulation written in baby language.
Yeah that's what i'd like to have clarified.  Need to know if I have to plan another week of not being able to get my usual BPW to LWH / BRI services.  Once again, clear information for the customers is sadly lacking


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 06, 2018, 11:58:23 am
Has the 4 track blockade between Temple Meads and Parkway been extended by a further week ? NRE are telling me it will be a bus between those two points up to Sunday 25th November !

NRE Journey Planner is still showing trains running on Severed Beach line (sic) on 19th-23rd Nov, with buses on the weekend; it also shows trains between BRI and BPW on these dates but warns that buses replace trains until 25 Nov.

Some clarity would be nice! If they already know they are going to over-run by a week when they're less than halfway through the blockade, then that doesn't bode well for a train service this side of Xmas. I keep checking the Twitters, but nothing there except self-congratulation written in baby language.

Meanwhile, traffic between Gloucester Road and Clifton was significantly heavier than usual this morning - probably due in part to people like me who were driving because the rail replacement bus service is neither use nor ornament.

Yep, I've noticed it's been busier round Redland of late (roughly since the blockade started). Not seen any passenger figures for the Beach Express for some time but I'm wondering how the blockade and continued unreliability of the Turbos will impact on these numbers.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 06, 2018, 04:11:45 pm
The latest twittering (I think you'll find it here, but I'm not very au fait with The Twitters: https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=%23bristolrailupgrade&src=tyah) says:

Quote
Work continues until early on 19 Nov.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: DaveHarries on November 07, 2018, 12:00:38 am
Has the 4 track blockade between Temple Meads and Parkway been extended by a further week ? NRE are telling me it will be a bus between those two points up to Sunday 25th November !

NRE Journey Planner is still showing trains running on Severed Beach line (sic) on 19th-23rd Nov, with buses on the weekend; it also shows trains between BRI and BPW on these dates but warns that buses replace trains until 25 Nov.

Some clarity would be nice! If they already know they are going to over-run by a week when they're less than halfway through the blockade, then that doesn't bode well for a train service this side of Xmas. I keep checking the Twitters, but nothing there except self-congratulation written in baby language.
Yeah that's what i'd like to have clarified.  Need to know if I have to plan another week of not being able to get my usual BPW to LWH / BRI services.  Once again, clear information for the customers is sadly lacking
Just had a look. RealTimeTrains gives no replacement buses between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway except in the early hours of those days. Trains running during the day though Monday to Friday.

Dave


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 07, 2018, 12:48:00 am
Has the 4 track blockade between Temple Meads and Parkway been extended by a further week ? NRE are telling me it will be a bus between those two points up to Sunday 25th November !
Yeah i've been wondering the same.  On the National Rail website current engineering works it now says;

"Buses replace trains between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway / Severn Beach from Saturday 27 October until Sunday 25 November"

That line from National Rail is the only place that suggests a full week of closures after 18th November - all the other sources (the timetable, GWR, and Network Rail) say it's only the weekend. So I guess it's just carelessness - the head of that item gives:  Start date 27/10/2018, End date 25/11/2018; arguably that's correct. But as the closure and RRB aren't continuous, it's probably a mistake to put them in one item, especially as that set of data is meant to be looked up by date.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 07, 2018, 05:51:56 am
That line from National Rail is the only place that suggests a full week of closures after 18th November - all the other sources (the timetable, GWR, and Network Rail) say it's only the weekend. So I guess it's just carelessness - the head of that item gives:  Start date 27/10/2018, End date 25/11/2018; arguably that's correct. But as the closure and RRB aren't continuous, it's probably a mistake to put them in one item, especially as that set of data is meant to be looked up by date.

I would be inclined to agree, save that late changes could be notified ... the wording feeds a natural worry brought on by past extensions / overruns

Quote
"Buses replace trains between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway / Severn Beach from Saturday 27 October until Sunday 25 November"

would be clearer as

Quote
"Buses replace trains between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway / Severn Beach from Saturday 27 October on most days until Sunday 25 November"

or (as has been suggested) splitting into two date sets.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 07, 2018, 09:27:50 am
Well let's hope so; traffic this morning was astonishingly bad.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 07, 2018, 10:20:17 am
Latest twittage shows new 75mph points at Horfield looking fairly complete.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrZCuhpXQAAM6rM.jpg)

According to the tweeble:

Quote
We're half way through our 3-week upgrade in the Bristol area and are making good progress.

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1060108439521767424



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Phantom on November 07, 2018, 10:21:00 am
Well let's hope so; traffic this morning was astonishingly bad.

Always the same in and around Bristol when the rain comes


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 07, 2018, 10:42:28 am
Latest twittage shows new 75mph points at Horfiled looking fairly complete.

According to the tweeble:

Quote
We're half way through our 3-week upgrade in the Bristol area and are making good progress.

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1060108439521767424

Looking good!  It says on their feed that "We've now completed the installation of complex crossovers in the Horfield area that enable trains to switch tracks"

Wonder if that means all 4 sets of new points are now in to complete the whole new junction layout?  Will try and have a drive over to take a look later if it's stopped persisting it down


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 07, 2018, 11:02:17 am
Well let's hope so; traffic this morning was astonishingly bad.

Always the same in and around Bristol when the rain comes

I'm sure the rain makes it worse, as does the rolling water main replacement programme, but it was pretty awful yesterday without the rain. I'd be interested to know what proportion of the scores of schoolkids who normally use the Severed Beach line are being driven to school instead by long-suffering parents. Does anyone on here have experience of the RRB from BRI to CFN at around 8am?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 08, 2018, 11:32:54 am
More twittage today - confirmation that they are still on schedule for 19th Nov:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1060452506935926784


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Spaceship on November 08, 2018, 03:27:50 pm
Hi I was on Constable Road Bridge earlier and there were about 60 people working on the tracks between the footbridge to the south and the next road bridge toward Bristol Parkway. There was a tamper unit working on one line directly under the bridge and a Class 66 with a trainload of something about half a mile up. One gang were installing a signal with a feather arm and other gangs appeared to be doing everything from signal coms, to points. Looked very well organised.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 08, 2018, 03:59:14 pm
Welcome break in the weather today so decided to get some updates

Starting at Constable Rd bridge, lots of progress since my last pics 10 days ago.  All 8 sets of points now installed for the 4 new crossovers making up the new 'Horfield Junction'

First pic, working from the top shows the first stage of the northern part of the junction from Up relief to Down relief, complete with new signal & feather, then down to the right shows the junction from Down main to Up main
Second pic shows most of the southern part of the junction, working from Down main, to Up main, then to Down relief
Third pic gives a longer shot of the southern part of the junction, Down main to Down relief, giving a better perspective of the length of the 75mph crossovers
Fourth pic shows very southern end, as the final connection to the Down relief is on the south side of the bridge!



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 08, 2018, 04:05:31 pm
Then onto Bonnington Walk for views the other way around, and the whole northern end of the junction

First pic shows whole of the southern junction from Down main across to Down relief, along with first part of the northern junction from Up relief to Down relief
Second pic shows second part of northern junction from Down relief to Up main
Third pic is a closer view of Down relief to Up main
Fourth pic is a panoramic view of Bonnington Walk N to FIT showing new junction / trackwork and extensive embankment works


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 08, 2018, 04:08:54 pm
Then onwards towards FIT...

Hard to miss the first big change, which is the installation of the new signal gantry mentioned on the latest NR twitter feed!
Followed by the view towards FIT itself



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 08, 2018, 04:14:29 pm
Then finally south of FIT

First two pics are comparison from 10 days ago and today, showing how the old Filton South junction has now completely gone, with both new relief lines running directly down Filton Bank from the new FIT platforms 3 & 4

Final pic is a panoramic south of FIT showing all 4 lines now running directly down the bank, along with more extensive embankment works


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 08, 2018, 04:17:12 pm
Thanks for those updates, METALRAIL.  Keep them coming.  They are going to need a lot of ballast when all the trackwork is completed.... :P


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 08, 2018, 04:24:54 pm
Thanks for those updates, METALRAIL.  Keep them coming.  They are going to need a lot of ballast when all the trackwork is completed.... :P
Yeah there was a huge ballast train on what will be the new Up main when I got to Constable Rd, obliterating most of the view to Bonnington Walk.  Thankfully after about 10 minutes it slowly started on it's way south (on the up line!) so I could finally see the trackwork.  There was another parked across Station Rd bridge by FIT as I drove back home after, so think they must be running them pretty much continuously to try and keep up!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 08, 2018, 04:27:38 pm
Thanks for those updates, METALRAIL.  Keep them coming. 

What he said! ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 08, 2018, 10:52:43 pm
Thanks for those updates, METALRAIL.  Keep them coming. 

What he said! ;)

Hear hear!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 09, 2018, 02:16:53 pm
Oh go on then!  ;)

Few more from today...  Dr Days first, new layout complete

First 2 from Barrow Rd North towards Ducie Road showing the completed junction layout
Third from Barrow Rd South with no change - 2 lines left to the Rhubarb Loop, 4 lines ahead to Bristol E junction
Final pic, just cos it annoyed me that so called artists can't keep their grubby mitts off anything railway related, especially junction signs  >:(



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 09, 2018, 02:22:41 pm
Then onto Ashley Down, by old Ashley Hill station.  Not great pics as not the best vantage point

First pic showing the 4 lines running south towards Narroways
Second showing the 4 lines running north towards Muller Rd Bridge

Note the gap between the main & relief lines where passive provision has been made for Ashley Hill station to be reinstated in the future - we can hope!   ;)

Third showing 4 lines back over Muller Rd Bridge again finally.  This has only recently been done as the double track previously slewed just north of the bridge.  Also shows new signal for the new Up Main


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 09, 2018, 02:37:14 pm
Great pix again metalrail - much appreciated!


Note the gap between the main & relief lines where passive provision has been made for Ashley Hill station to be reinstated in the future - we can hope!   ;)


Or it could just be passive provision for running the track over the bridge rather than falling down the gap into the station subway: https://goo.gl/maps/q7bK8MkE8WK2 ;)

But as you say, we can hope...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 09, 2018, 02:47:07 pm
Quote
Or it could just be passive provision for running the track over the bridge rather than falling down the gap into the station subway: https://goo.gl/maps/q7bK8MkE8WK2 Wink

But as you say, we can hope...
I've had a renewed sense of optimism for it ever since SandT's excellent new track layout for the bank showing the station provision was still there...  and the fact the subway is also intact with access to the island platform area gives me at least some hope...  you never know, one day I may re-enter the real world!  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 09, 2018, 03:05:54 pm
...and the fact the subway is also intact with access to the island platform area gives me at least some hope... 

I'm guessing that from the subway to a new island platform is about 6m vertically, so to achieve the maximum 1:12 incline will require digging out a 72m trench, 1.5m wide. Some work would also have to be done to the west of the subway to sort out the gradients. It would certainly be neater than one of those colossal EA-compliant footbridges, but somehow I think the latter will win the day.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 09, 2018, 03:31:47 pm
Quote
I'm guessing that from the subway to a new island platform is about 6m vertically, so to achieve the maximum 1:12 incline will require digging out a 72m trench, 1.5m wide. Some work would also have to be done to the west of the subway to sort out the gradients. It would certainly be neater than one of those colossal EA-compliant footbridges, but somehow I think the latter will win the day
Yeah as I stood at the bottom of the footpath leading to the subway I was trying to picture a hideous new Stapleton Road style skating ramp and how it wouldn't fit in with the surroundings in any way, shape or form


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 09, 2018, 03:38:30 pm
....and before somebody asks...the triangle on the signaI ID plate means that the signal is a repeater (distant) and cannot show a red aspect (in this case).  There are other sites where the signal would be fitted with a red aspect but cannot be approached in normal working up to that.  You usually find those on signals within reversible working areas or a signal ahead of a junction.  In those cases its done to prevent misreading of a signal.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 09, 2018, 04:33:01 pm
....and before somebody asks...the triangle on the signaI ID plate means that the signal is a repeater (distant) and cannot show a red aspect (in this case).  There are other sites where the signal would be fitted with a red aspect but cannot be approached in normal working up to that.  You usually find those on signals within reversible working areas or a signal ahead of a junction.  In those cases its done to prevent misreading of a signal.

So does that mean it's a 3-aspect two-aperture signal? ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 09, 2018, 04:40:25 pm
....and before somebody asks...the triangle on the signaI ID plate means that the signal is a repeater (distant) and cannot show a red aspect (in this case).  There are other sites where the signal would be fitted with a red aspect but cannot be approached in normal working up to that.  You usually find those on signals within reversible working areas or a signal ahead of a junction.  In those cases its done to prevent misreading of a signal.

So does that mean it's a 3-aspect two-aperture signal? ;)

 ::)  :-\


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 09, 2018, 04:43:09 pm
Oh, and another thing while I'm at it.....they are called JUNCTION INDICATORS not FEATHERS.... :P


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 09, 2018, 05:20:39 pm
Can't they be junction feathers?   :P


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 09, 2018, 05:40:50 pm
Oh, and another thing while I'm at it.....they are called JUNCTION INDICATORS not FEATHERS.... :P

Ee's gettin shouty again. Find im is pills someone. :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 09, 2018, 06:00:43 pm
Great pix again metalrail - much appreciated!


Note the gap between the main & relief lines where passive provision has been made for Ashley Hill station to be reinstated in the future - we can hope!   ;)


Or it could just be passive provision for running the track over the bridge rather than falling down the gap into the station subway: https://goo.gl/maps/q7bK8MkE8WK2 ;)

But as you say, we can hope...

There was never a subway at Ashley Hill, it was a footbridge. The bridge shown in the piccy is over a lane from Muller Road to what was the forecourt of Ashley Hill station and only accessible by light motor vehicles and pedestrians.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 09, 2018, 06:13:23 pm
....and before somebody asks...the triangle on the signaI ID plate means that the signal is a repeater (distant) and cannot show a red aspect (in this case).  There are other sites where the signal would be fitted with a red aspect but cannot be approached in normal working up to that.  You usually find those on signals within reversible working areas or a signal ahead of a junction.  In those cases its done to prevent misreading of a signal.

Is the triangle now used instead of an 'R', a signal near my home has a 'R' underneath the signal number that it repeats. That signal is on the two-way worked up Charfield line between Westerleigh Junction and Yate South Junction.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 09, 2018, 06:15:30 pm
....and before somebody asks...the triangle on the signaI ID plate means that the signal is a repeater (distant) and cannot show a red aspect (in this case).  There are other sites where the signal would be fitted with a red aspect but cannot be approached in normal working up to that.  You usually find those on signals within reversible working areas or a signal ahead of a junction.  In those cases its done to prevent misreading of a signal.

Is the triangle now used instead of an 'R', a signal near my home has a 'R' underneath the signal number that it repeats. That signal is on the two-way worked up Charfield line between Westerleigh Junction and Yate South Junction.

Yes.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 09, 2018, 06:21:49 pm
Metalrail can take a bow - as it was a desire to see his photos that made me sign up.

To be clear, I presume the latest ones are at the northern end - i.e. north of where the old two-track alignment was slewed over to the east side - so the old tracks here are the mains and the new ones are the reliefs?

I take it that "Up" in this context is to Paddington via Badminton. That had me foxed at first, as I was expecting it to be "Down" from Paddington via the rhubarb curve. Is zero here at Bristol East?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 09, 2018, 06:55:48 pm
....and before somebody asks...the triangle on the signaI ID plate means that the signal is a repeater (distant) and cannot show a red aspect (in this case).  There are other sites where the signal would be fitted with a red aspect but cannot be approached in normal working up to that.  You usually find those on signals within reversible working areas or a signal ahead of a junction.  In those cases its done to prevent misreading of a signal.

Is the triangle now used instead of an 'R', a signal near my home has a 'R' underneath the signal number that it repeats. That signal is on the two-way worked up Charfield line between Westerleigh Junction and Yate South Junction.

Yes.

Do they still display the signal ID they repeat ?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 09, 2018, 06:56:58 pm
There was never a subway at Ashley Hill, it was a footbridge. The bridge shown in the piccy is over a lane from Muller Road to what was the forecourt of Ashley Hill station and only accessible by light motor vehicles and pedestrians.

OED defines a subway as 'A tunnel under a road for use by pedestrians'; the 'road' in this case being a rail road.

Actually I was going to check tomorrow whether there was any sign of a bricked-up entry to the island platform from the subway, but from what you say there clearly wasn't!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 09, 2018, 07:02:32 pm
Metalrail can take a bow - as it was a desire to see his photos that made me sign up.

Welcome to the forum ... and a note to other guests / lurkers that you too could seen these fantastic pictures  ;D ;D

Quote
To be clear, I presume the latest ones are at the northern end - i.e. north of where the old two-track alignment was slewed over to the east side - so the old tracks here are the mains and the new ones are the reliefs?

I take it that "Up" in this context is to Paddington via Badminton. That had me foxed at first, as I was expecting it to be "Down" from Paddington via the rhubarb curve. Is zero here at Bristol East?

I will let others answer ... I know there will be someone who knows!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 09, 2018, 07:22:44 pm
There was never a subway at Ashley Hill, it was a footbridge. The bridge shown in the piccy is over a lane from Muller Road to what was the forecourt of Ashley Hill station and only accessible by light motor vehicles and pedestrians.

OED defines a subway as 'A tunnel under a road for use by pedestrians'; the 'road' in this case being a rail road.

Actually I was going to check tomorrow whether there was any sign of a bricked-up entry to the island platform from the subway, but from what you say there clearly wasn't!
You are indeed correct...  had always thought that was a subway for access to the platforms - as well as an access path from Muller Road to Station Road - seeing as there was an opening between the tracks too which made me think that was for access to the central island platform.  But checking out this awesome pic from the 1930's there was a footbridge at the north end!

http://bristol-rail.co.uk/wiki/File:Ashley_Hill7.jpg



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 09, 2018, 07:26:06 pm
Metalrail can take a bow - as it was a desire to see his photos that made me sign up.

Welcome to the forum ... and a note to other guests / lurkers that you too could seen these fantastic pictures  ;D ;D

Quote
To be clear, I presume the latest ones are at the northern end - i.e. north of where the old two-track alignment was slewed over to the east side - so the old tracks here are the mains and the new ones are the reliefs?

I take it that "Up" in this context is to Paddington via Badminton. That had me foxed at first, as I was expecting it to be "Down" from Paddington via the rhubarb curve. Is zero here at Bristol East?

I will let others answer ... I know there will be someone who knows!


If I'm right the lines from Filton change from Down to Up on the Rhubarb Curve itself between Dr Days Junction and North Somerset Junction.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 09, 2018, 07:31:46 pm
Metalrail can take a bow - as it was a desire to see his photos that made me sign up.

Welcome to the forum ... and a note to other guests / lurkers that you too could seen these fantastic pictures  ;D ;D

Quote
To be clear, I presume the latest ones are at the northern end - i.e. north of where the old two-track alignment was slewed over to the east side - so the old tracks here are the mains and the new ones are the reliefs?

I take it that "Up" in this context is to Paddington via Badminton. That had me foxed at first, as I was expecting it to be "Down" from Paddington via the rhubarb curve. Is zero here at Bristol East?
I will let others answer ... I know there will be someone who knows!

Welcome indeed JontyMort!

No these pics were taken from south of Muller Road bridge.  I took some videos over the past 7 or 8 months (on this thread somewhere) showing where the new rails were being laid.  North of Muller Road the existing 2 lines were on the east side of the 4 track alignment, and then slewed over to the west just before Muller Road to go over the western side of the bridge.  That double track then followed the western alignment all the way down thru SRD and LWH onto Dr Days

The original double tracks have effectively been chopped off either end of the slew, so the new rails from Muller Road north form the relief lines (western side of the alignment) whilst the new rails on the eastern side on Muller Road bridge itself and then down to Dr Days form the main lines - hope that makes sense!

And yep Filton Bank wise Up is north towards the Badminton line, as it effectively forms the other route from BRI to PAD


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 09, 2018, 07:50:00 pm
....and before somebody asks...the triangle on the signaI ID plate means that the signal is a repeater (distant) and cannot show a red aspect (in this case).  There are other sites where the signal would be fitted with a red aspect but cannot be approached in normal working up to that.  You usually find those on signals within reversible working areas or a signal ahead of a junction.  In those cases its done to prevent misreading of a signal.

Is the triangle now used instead of an 'R', a signal near my home has a 'R' underneath the signal number that it repeats. That signal is on the two-way worked up Charfield line between Westerleigh Junction and Yate South Junction.

Yes.

Do they still display the signal ID they repeat ?

No.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 09, 2018, 07:55:06 pm
Metalrail can take a bow - as it was a desire to see his photos that made me sign up.

To be clear, I presume the latest ones are at the northern end - i.e. north of where the old two-track alignment was slewed over to the east side - so the old tracks here are the mains and the new ones are the reliefs?

I take it that "Up" in this context is to Paddington via Badminton. That had me foxed at first, as I was expecting it to be "Down" from Paddington via the rhubarb curve. Is zero here at Bristol East?

Having a look here might help: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg236581#msg236581 and here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg248151#msg248151


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 09, 2018, 08:16:48 pm
....and before somebody asks...the triangle on the signaI ID plate means that the signal is a repeater (distant) and cannot show a red aspect (in this case).  There are other sites where the signal would be fitted with a red aspect but cannot be approached in normal working up to that.  You usually find those on signals within reversible working areas or a signal ahead of a junction.  In those cases its done to prevent misreading of a signal.

Is the triangle now used instead of an 'R', a signal near my home has a 'R' underneath the signal number that it repeats. That signal is on the two-way worked up Charfield line between Westerleigh Junction and Yate South Junction.

Yes.

Do they still display the signal ID they repeat ?

No.


Are these new type repeater signals now replacing the 'banner repeaters', the white circular array of white LED's which has a 'black' horizontal line which changes to a diagonal "black' line when the signal it repeats is 'off'.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 09, 2018, 08:23:40 pm
One thing that intrigues me is, will train crew have to 'route learn' and sign the new four tracked line from Bristol East to Filton Abbey Wood before they can operate a passenger carrying service over this stretch of 'new' railway.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 09, 2018, 08:40:31 pm
One thing that intrigues me is, will train crew have to 'route learn' and sign the new four tracked line from Bristol East to Filton Abbey Wood before they can operate a passenger carrying service over this stretch of 'new' railway.

Yeah I wondered that yesterday when I was looking at all the new junction changes around Horfield cutting, and the new signals going in all up the bank.  Gonna be a fair bit to take in


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 09, 2018, 10:29:44 pm
....and before somebody asks...the triangle on the signaI ID plate means that the signal is a repeater (distant) and cannot show a red aspect (in this case).  There are other sites where the signal would be fitted with a red aspect but cannot be approached in normal working up to that.  You usually find those on signals within reversible working areas or a signal ahead of a junction.  In those cases its done to prevent misreading of a signal.

Is the triangle now used instead of an 'R', a signal near my home has a 'R' underneath the signal number that it repeats. That signal is on the two-way worked up Charfield line between Westerleigh Junction and Yate South Junction.

Yes.

Do they still display the signal ID they repeat ?

No.


Are these new type repeater signals now replacing the 'banner repeaters', the white circular array of white LED's which has a 'black' horizontal line which changes to a diagonal "black' line when the signal it repeats is 'off'.

No.  Banner Repeaters are used where the required sighting distance of a signal cannot be achieved (e.g. due to curve or obstruction such as an overbridge).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 09, 2018, 10:51:46 pm
One thing that intrigues me is, will train crew have to 'route learn' and sign the new four tracked line from Bristol East to Filton Abbey Wood before they can operate a passenger carrying service over this stretch of 'new' railway.

Yeah I wondered that yesterday when I was looking at all the new junction changes around Horfield cutting, and the new signals going in all up the bank.  Gonna be a fair bit to take in

An interesting question ...

On lines like the Borders Railway, shadow services including route learning ran without passengers; Bristol resignalling seemed to be OK with just paperwork and instruction, although trains crept in. 10 m.p.h. up Filton Bank, even on 4 tracks, would perhaps be even slower than the buses?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 09, 2018, 11:00:40 pm
Metalrail can take a bow - as it was a desire to see his photos that made me sign up.

To be clear, I presume the latest ones are at the northern end - i.e. north of where the old two-track alignment was slewed over to the east side - so the old tracks here are the mains and the new ones are the reliefs?

I take it that "Up" in this context is to Paddington via Badminton. That had me foxed at first, as I was expecting it to be "Down" from Paddington via the rhubarb curve. Is zero here at Bristol East?

Having a look here might help: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg236581#msg236581 and here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg248151#msg248151

Thanks for this and the other replies. I am familiar with the general layout (often doing Worcester-Bristol or Brum-Bristol) but it's different seeing the photos as opposed to from a moving train. It has been interesting seeing new track appear over the last weeks - and suddenly change sides as you go down! It looks as though the finished product will be a good job.

Does anyone know what the linespeed will be from Dr Day's to Parkway? The Voyagers should cut a minute or two off if they get a clear run.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 09, 2018, 11:26:19 pm
Does anyone know what the linespeed will be from Dr Day's to Parkway? The Voyagers should cut a minute or two off if they get a clear run

I would suspect that there will be little change to timings until a/the major timetable change across the West that's postponed from January 2019 so - err - sometime.  And even then, an extra minute or two of padding might be left in schedules.     There's the whole "robustness v speed" thing, and with compensations for late running becoming easier to do through electronics and delay-repay, there is little to tempt the rail industry to trim a minute or two.   Speed-ups become worthwhile when they can save a train, or when they are so dramatic they bring in more custom.  Clever thing for the TOCs is to drive slowly up the hill so that passenger don't realise there's slack in there, and by the way that will save fuel too.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 09, 2018, 11:36:12 pm
Welcome from me too, JontyMort! I've been following this with particular interest, and still know less than most other folks on here. It has been a huge undertaking though, and it's nice to see it coming at last to being used. As grahame says, though, don't expect too much speen increases, but less late running hopefully. Plus of course the new services to Paddington via Badminton.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 09, 2018, 11:40:56 pm
Does anyone know what the linespeed will be from Dr Day's to Parkway? The Voyagers should cut a minute or two off if they get a clear run.

I was just discussing this with my daughter, who takes an interest in these things: I am presuming that the installation of 75mph S&C is a clue here!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adrian on November 10, 2018, 07:12:04 am
No.  Banner Repeaters are used where the required sighting distance of a signal cannot be achieved (e.g. due to curve or obstruction such as an overbridge).

There's an interesting banner repeater on the up line between Patchway tunnel and the station that combines with green and yellow aspects and a junction repeater (i.e. two banners, each of which uses coloured LEDs when the junction signal is yellow or green, and white LEDs when it is red.
Seems surprising that they deemed a repeater necessary in the up direction but not the down direction where the signal before the tunnels is hidden by the A38 overbridge.  Cardiff-bound trains often crawl for the first half a mile out of Patchway station even though the signal has cleared to green while the train was stopped at the station.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 10, 2018, 09:46:40 am
Does anyone know what the linespeed will be from Dr Day's to Parkway? The Voyagers should cut a minute or two off if they get a clear run.

I was just discussing this with my daughter, who takes an interest in these things: I am presuming that the installation of 75mph S&C is a clue here!

Good point, suggesting 90 on the mains. I agree that they're not going to trim the booked timings but it should make the XC working a bit more robust - especially down the bank, where at present a late-running XC at Parkway can get caught behind something.

An oddity at Parkway is that they don't yet seem to be using the southernmost platform (1?) for southbound XC, even though that is the obvious non-conflicting route. Maybe that will change in December. The new layout allows parallel movements west out of Parkway to both Bristol and Cardiff... but only if the Bristol train is in the correct platform.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 10, 2018, 10:06:35 am
...suggesting 90 on the mains.

Anyone know what the limit was on the old layout?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Peak_at_Narroways_Junction.jpg)

Image by Andy Kirkham [CC BY 2.0  (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0)], via Wikimedia Commons


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 10:45:21 am
Quote
An oddity at Parkway is that they don't yet seem to be using the southernmost platform (1?) for southbound XC, even though that is the obvious non-conflicting route. Maybe that will change in December. The new layout allows parallel movements west out of Parkway to both Bristol and Cardiff... but only if the Bristol train is in the correct platform

They've been using P1 since May for the southbound 'local' GWR stopping services to Brighton / Westbury / Weymouth etc which call between xx.19 and xx.23, as these are the ones I generally catch from BPW to LWH.  Seeing as a lot of them run late it's good that they're separated from the XC services which call around xx.30 on P2, so there isn't the old queue for a platform to come free like there used to be

This is one thing i'm looking forward to the four tracking helping to solve, as usually when my local service is delayed, the XC service will be given priority to depart which further delays the local service.  Obviously with the new layout they won't be tailing each other down the bank after FIT any more


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 11:56:53 am
The Relief Lines will be generally 60mph on the Up, increasing to 75mph between Narroway Hill Junction and Filton Abbey Wood and 75mph on the Down throughout.  The main lines will be 75mph throughout.  Speeds obviously decreasing for the curves at each end.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 12:09:36 pm
No.  Banner Repeaters are used where the required sighting distance of a signal cannot be achieved (e.g. due to curve or obstruction such as an overbridge).

There's an interesting banner repeater on the up line between Patchway tunnel and the station that combines with green and yellow aspects and a junction repeater (i.e. two banners, each of which uses coloured LEDs when the junction signal is yellow or green, and white LEDs when it is red.
Seems surprising that they deemed a repeater necessary in the up direction but not the down direction where the signal before the tunnels is hidden by the A38 overbridge.  Cardiff-bound trains often crawl for the first half a mile out of Patchway station even though the signal has cleared to green while the train was stopped at the station.

There are two types of BANNER REPEATER signal.  The first is the most common type that has a black bar on a white background.  The bar is horizontal if the signal being repeated is at danger (Red aspect) and the bar is at 45 degrees in the upper left quadrant if the signal being repeated is clear (Yellow, Double Yellow or Green aspects).

The second type has a black bar on a white background or a black bar on a green background (known as a GREEN BANNER REPEATER).  The bar is horizontal on a white background if the signal being repeated is at danger (red aspect), and the bar is at 45 degrees in the upper left quadrant on a white background if the signal being repeated is clear (Yellow, Double Yellow aspects only).  The bar is at 45 degrees in the upper left quadrant on a green background if the signal being repeated is clear (Green aspect only).

If the signal being repeated applies to a diverging junction then sometimes a 'side by side' double banner repeater is provided to indicate which route is set at the junction before the repeated signal can be seen.  This can be of either type.

The reason for the latter more recent GREEN BANNER REPEATER type is to allow for better train performance, as a driver knows when the repeated signal is clear to a Green aspect and he can therefore continue at linespeed without waiting to see the aspect actually shown by the repeated signal.

PHEW....you lot love asking technical questions ;D

Edit to Add: A GREEN BANNER REPEATER does not always have to show the bar at 45 degrees in the upper left quadrant on a white background.  That is not necessary if the repeated signal can only show Red or Green aspects.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 12:15:14 pm
Quote
PHEW....you lot love asking technical questions Grin

That's cos you're the man in the know!  ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 12:21:19 pm
Quote
PHEW....you lot love asking technical questions Grin

That's cos you're the man in the know!  ;D

I was always taught that its never too late to learn something new (even after 50 years in the S&T business :D).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 10, 2018, 12:23:51 pm

If the signal being repeated applies to a diverging junction then sometimes a 'side by side' double banner repeater is provided to indicate which route is set at the junction before the repeated signal can be seen.  This can be of either type.


There's a good example of one of these on the down line between Bournville and Kings Norton. The cross-city stoppers take the left route into the platform at KN and then the down slow (this is the start of the quadruple track section down to Barnt Green) while the right-hand route goes to the down fast (and 45 becomes 90). The through line has a green banner repeater - a sight for sore eyes when one has crawled out of New Street.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 12:37:28 pm
Here is a photograph showing the three possible states (and yes, another type of signal ID plate; this one indicating that its a GREEN BANNER REPEATER):

(http://www.tlr.ltd.uk/resources/000/290/537/repeater_P1020591_pub.JPG)
Image thanks to the St.Albans South Signalbox website


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 12:43:16 pm
...suggesting 90 on the mains.

Anyone know what the limit was on the old layout?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Peak_at_Narroways_Junction.jpg)

Image by Andy Kirkham [CC BY 2.0  (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0)], via Wikimedia Commons

I'll have a look in my historic records.  Might take a few days!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 12:53:14 pm
The Relief Lines will be generally 60mph on the Up, increasing to 75mph between Narroway Hill Junction and Filton Abbey Wood and 75mph on the Down throughout.  The main lines will be 75mph throughout.  Speeds obviously decreasing for the curves at each end.

SandT - I remember you said a while ago that the whole four tracking project won't be fully commissioned until after New Year.  I know NR are closing the bank again the following 2 weekends after the 3 week blockade, and can't remember if you mentioned whether all 4 tracks would be in use straight away or whether it will have to wait until all the works are completed in January?  (Sorry to be asking even more!)  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 10, 2018, 01:01:22 pm
...between Narroway Hill Junction and Filton Abbey Wood

It's NARROWAYS :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 02:13:58 pm
The Relief Lines will be generally 60mph on the Up, increasing to 75mph between Narroway Hill Junction and Filton Abbey Wood and 75mph on the Down throughout.  The main lines will be 75mph throughout.  Speeds obviously decreasing for the curves at each end.

SandT - I remember you said a while ago that the whole four tracking project won't be fully commissioned until after New Year.  I know NR are closing the bank again the following 2 weekends after the 3 week blockade, and can't remember if you mentioned whether all 4 tracks would be in use straight away or whether it will have to wait until all the works are completed in January?  (Sorry to be asking even more!)  ;)

I originally had xmas/new year 2018/9 in my diary some two years ago, but it seems they decided to bring it all forward.  The weekend closures are probably for follow up track works (tamping, clearing up etc.).  Think there might still be something going on over xmas/new year but its probably only closure of two tracks out of four (nice having these four track railways isn't?).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 02:33:05 pm
I originally had xmas/new year 2018/9 in my diary some two years ago, but it seems they decided to bring it all forward.  The weekend closures are probably for follow up track works (tamping, clearing up etc.).  Think there might still be something going on over xmas/new year but its probably only closure of two tracks out of four (nice having these four track railways isn't?).

Ah great news, we could even be finished in time for the December timetable change after all then!

And yeah will be great to still have trains running on two tracks out of four during engineering works, we're used to just two lines obviously!   ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 10, 2018, 04:28:05 pm
Couple of pictures of Filton Abbey Wood, in case it feels left out after metalrail's efforts:

First one, taken from a footbridge south of the station, shows the approach and signal gantry looking all new and shiny;
Second is a rather blurred zoom shot taken from the same spot - could be worse given that it's taken by a phone;
Third is the classic 'off the footbridge' shot showing the Orange folk hard at it.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 04:36:51 pm
Couple of pictures of Filton Abbey Wood, in case it feels left out after metalrail's efforts:

Great pics... saves me going over there tomorrow now!   ;)

The station is definitely getting there...  although all those new railings running along the olympic sized access ramp on P4 look pretty hideous


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 04:43:50 pm
...between Narroway Hill Junction and Filton Abbey Wood

It's NARROWAYS :)

The offical railway name is NARROWAY HILL JUNCTION.....


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 04:53:29 pm
Looking at the first pic and back at SandT's second layout plan, the Up Main is bidirectional until the junction with the Down Relief yeah?  I'm taking it that's why there's a down facing signal with junction indicator (see I got it right that time!) on the gantry there?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 04:58:21 pm
Looking at the first pic and back at SandT's second layout plan, the Up Main is bidirectional until the junction with the Down Relief yeah?  I'm taking it that's why there's a down facing signal with junction indicator (see I got it right that time!) on the gantry there?

Correct.  But that reversible working facility along the Up Filton Main will be out of use for the initial commissioning.

It looks to me, from the info I have, as though the additional third line between Bristol Parkway and the old Filton Platform area won't be commissioned until a later date.  Anybody been that way recently to have a look at that work (before the blockade, obviously)?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 05:06:58 pm
One thing that intrigues me is, will train crew have to 'route learn' and sign the new four tracked line from Bristol East to Filton Abbey Wood before they can operate a passenger carrying service over this stretch of 'new' railway.

Yeah I wondered that yesterday when I was looking at all the new junction changes around Horfield cutting, and the new signals going in all up the bank.  Gonna be a fair bit to take in

An interesting question ...

On lines like the Borders Railway, shadow services including route learning ran without passengers; Bristol resignalling seemed to be OK with just paperwork and instruction, although trains crept in. 10 m.p.h. up Filton Bank, even on 4 tracks, would perhaps be even slower than the buses?

The staff briefing document (what in the trade is referred to as a WON SECTION C NOTICE, or in some places as an OPENING NOTICE or YELLOW PERIL) is 12 pages long and includes a diagram of the new arrangements.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 10, 2018, 06:18:24 pm
...between Narroway Hill Junction and Filton Abbey Wood

It's NARROWAYS :)

The offical railway name is NARROWAY HILL JUNCTION.....

The 1844-1888 25" OS Map (1st Edition) shows it as Narrow-ways Hill Jct, and Baker (14th Edition, 2015) continues the tradition, without the hyphen. I hesitate to use the word 'correct' in this context, but the name of the area is 'Narroways'. Just to the east of the hill is Narroways Road, and the area at the top is Narroways Millennium Green (https://www.bristol.gov.uk/museums-parks-sports-culture/narroways-millennium-green). I hesitate to be prescriptive about these things, but if 'the railway' is in some documentation referring to the junction without the terminal 's', they are out of step with every source that I am aware of.





Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 10, 2018, 06:43:37 pm
Ooh, one other thing: https://goo.gl/maps/kDkBx4Xc4CR2


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 07:31:14 pm
Ooh, one other thing: https://goo.gl/maps/kDkBx4Xc4CR2
Ah, but thats not NARROWAY HILL JUNCTION......

OK.  I give up.  Somebody has got it wrong on all the NR plans and documents then.  Makes no difference to me.... ;)

So from now on its NARROWAYS!

Can we get back now to people asking me difficult railway signalling questions ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 10, 2018, 07:34:02 pm
Perhaps a bit like Clifton Down station, but in every other context people talk about Clifton Downs. Although maybe they didn't when it opened in the 1870s.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on November 10, 2018, 07:56:33 pm
Great pics... saves me going over there tomorrow now!   ;)

The station is definitely getting there...  although all those new railings running along the olympic sized access ramp on P4 look pretty hideous
I expect someone’s been ultra cautious and it’s to guard against people getting onto the roof of the platform shelter.

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 08:15:18 pm

Can we get back now to people asking me difficult railway signalling questions ::)

Yeah...  whatever happened to those long rectangular ones that used to go up and down?   ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 09:08:45 pm

Can we get back now to people asking me difficult railway signalling questions ::)

Yeah...  whatever happened to those long rectangular ones that used to go up and down?   ;)

Wash your mouth out please.  They only go down on this patch (OK, there once was a couple that went up instead, but we soon got rid of those).  There are more of the ones that go down left than you might think..... ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 09:10:27 pm
Now then, nobody has asked (yet) about the PRELIMINARY ROUTE INDICATOR on the Up Relief at the new Horfield Junction assuming its been installed now....


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 09:11:53 pm

Can we get back now to people asking me difficult railway signalling questions ::)

Yeah...  whatever happened to those long rectangular ones that used to go up and down?   ;)

Wash your mouth out please.  They only go down on this patch.  There are more left than you might think..... ;)

Hehe....  I know.  And trust me I do still love to see them in action!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 09:24:29 pm
Now then, nobody has asked (yet) about the PRELIMINARY ROUTING INDICATOR on the Up Relief at the new Horfield Junction assuming its been installed now....

Hi SandT...  could you tell me about the preliminary 'feather' indicator on the Up Relief please?  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 10, 2018, 09:39:08 pm
Now then, nobody has asked (yet) about the PRELIMINARY ROUTING INDICATOR on the Up Relief at the new Horfield Junction assuming its been installed now....

Hi SandT...  could you tell me about the preliminary 'feather' indicator on the Up Relief please?  ;)

Now you are really trying hard to wind me up aren't you....  going to bed now, tell you tomorrow...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 09:43:47 pm
Now then, nobody has asked (yet) about the PRELIMINARY ROUTING INDICATOR on the Up Relief at the new Horfield Junction assuming its been installed now....

Hi SandT...  could you tell me about the preliminary 'feather' indicator on the Up Relief please?  ;)

Now you are really trying hard to wind me up aren't you....  going to bed now, tell you tomorrow...

Thanks.  Joking aside yeah I would like to know please   :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 10, 2018, 09:53:38 pm
Now then, nobody has asked (yet) about the PRELIMINARY ROUTING INDICATOR on the Up Relief at the new Horfield Junction assuming its been installed now....

Hi SandT...  could you tell me about the preliminary 'feather' indicator on the Up Relief please?  ;)

Now you are really trying hard to wind me up aren't you....  going to bed now, tell you tomorrow...

Thanks.  Joking aside yeah I would like to know please   :)

Me too, assuming it's one of those arrows in a theatre-type indicator like the one at the top of the Lickey and at Aynho.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 10, 2018, 10:49:47 pm
Perhaps a bit like Clifton Down station, but in every other context people talk about Clifton Downs. Although maybe they didn't when it opened in the 1870s.

The area known as The Downs consists of two downs - Clifton Down, and Durdham Down. I've done no research on this, so I can't be sure, but I am guessing that Clifton Down Station was named after one of these.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on November 10, 2018, 11:22:08 pm
In all my time in Bristol I referred to, and heard referred to, The Downs as the plural, never Clifton Downs.

That's not to say their aren't many erroneous references online to the entire Downs area as Clifton Downs. One of the chief culprits being the Bristol Post.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: DaveHarries on November 11, 2018, 01:09:49 am
The area known as The Downs consists of two downs - Clifton Down, and Durdham Down. I've done no research on this, so I can't be sure, but I am guessing that Clifton Down Station was named after one of these.
"All they Downs is up" ("The Bristol Song" by The Wurzels)  ;D

Anyway I was out and about this morning. At the Bristol Temple Meads end signals BL1818 and BL2054 have been replaced by new signals with Position 3 feathers. Interestingly BL2054 remains with a single lens while BL1818 is being upgraded (for want of a better word) to dual lens. As can be seen in one of the photos I took from St. Philips Causeway signal BL1816 has yet to be replaced but is, I suspect, awaiting its fate. BL1818 is in the middle while BL2054 is on the right.

After watching the installation of BL1818 I drove up to Lockleaze and walked from Bonnington Walk to the footbridge just south of Filton Abbey Wood station which was a hive of activity. As can be seen in the other attached photo the recently constructed signal gantry next to the bridge now has 3 signals on it: BL1573 (replacement for existing signal), BL1575 and BL1577 (both newbies). In a piece of forward thinking BL1575 has been given a position 4 feather. My understanding on this is that although BL1575 will, for now, be fixed at red but, from what I was told on a Facebook group relating to signalling, the old 'emergency crossover' will eventually become a signalled move although the author of that post didn't say when. Perhaps when the new platform comes into serve in December?

I should perhaps add, for the avoidance of doubt, that the photo of the signal gantry was taken through a metal fence so no trespass was committed in the obtaining of that photo.

HTIOI,
Dave


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 11, 2018, 09:46:18 am
Dave, I wrote about the reversible working at Filton Abbey Wood in a post above: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg251122#msg251122  and if you look at the track layout I posted here, all is explained: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg236581#msg236581 and http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg248151#msg248151

...and it looks like there are having an "oh dear, its pointing the wrong way" moment with BL1818 signal.... ::)  Note that its a POSITION 1 JUNCTION INDICATOR.  Interesting that its been installed as a 4-Aspect signal as the Signalling Plan and Drivers Briefing document I mentioned in an earlier post, both show it as a 3-Aspect signal (as is Signal BL2054 on the right, which is correct, but unfortunately its also pointing the wrong way!) :P

Signal BL1816 on the left is not being replaced.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 11, 2018, 10:18:02 am
Interesting that its been installed as a 4-Aspect signal as the Signalling Plan and Drivers Briefing document I mentioned in an earlier post, both show it as a 3-Aspect signal. :P

It seems quite common these days to fit signals with two LED heads (i.e. 4-aspect) signals with the upper head not used, so they are in fact 3-aspect signals.  Presumably it makes it easier to change them in the future?  Either that or somebody ordered too many 4-aspect signals.   ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 11, 2018, 10:23:40 am
Interesting that its been installed as a 4-Aspect signal as the Signalling Plan and Drivers Briefing document I mentioned in an earlier post, both show it as a 3-Aspect signal. :P

It seems quite common these days to fit signals with two LED heads (i.e. 4-aspect) signals with the upper head not used, so they are in fact 3-aspect signals.  Presumably it makes it easier to change them in the future?  Either that or somebody ordered too many 4-aspect signals.   ;)

Thats a new one on me II, and I really don't understand why as the signal spacing distances are different and conversion from 3-Aspect to 4-Aspect signalling would most likely involve repositioning the signals anyway.  Also a bit misleading for drivers, who have been briefed differently.....  I think your latter theory might be the correct one ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 11, 2018, 10:48:02 am
Now then, nobody has asked (yet) about the PRELIMINARY ROUTE INDICATOR on the Up Relief at the new Horfield Junction assuming its been installed now....

So SandT, joking aside i'd really like to know about this please.  Is this like the ones i've seen around Paddington - the square box above the signals - that show what route is set on the next set of signals that have the actual route indicator attached?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 11, 2018, 11:23:49 am
Thats a new one on me II, and I really don't understand why as the signal spacing distances are different and conversion from 3-Aspect to 4-Aspect signalling would most likely involve repositioning the signals anyway.  Also a bit misleading for drivers, who have been briefed differently.....  I think your latter theory might be the correct one ;D

Yes, it seemed to start several years ago on the section between Reading and Didcot, which is 3-aspect, but could really do with being 4-aspect.  I assumed 4-aspect was imminent, but as you say, signal spacing would need to be changed (or additional signals inserted), otherwise it would take an age to get from red to green after a train has passed.

More recently, the signals between Wolvercote and Tackley installed as part of this summers resignalling are 4-aspect signal heads which only display three aspects.  At the Wolvercote end I believe Phase 2 of the Oxford Corridor Enhancement scheme will result in them becoming full 4-aspect signals, but not at the Tackley end.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 11, 2018, 12:25:21 pm
Dave, I wrote about the reversible working at Filton Abbey Wood in a post above: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg251122#msg251122  and if you look at the track layout I posted here, all is explained: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg236581#msg236581 and http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg248151#msg248151

This bidirectional section when it's commissioned will at least alleviate the bottleneck I was worried about between BPW and the relief lines south of FIT.  I always wondered why Filton Junction wasn't going to be re-modelled to allow southbound 'local' services to access P3 at FIT to prevent them holding up southbound XC and the new IET's on the down main

At least this way we'll have parallel running so that trains using the down main can go straight from BPW thru P1 at FIT, allowing stopping services from BPW to call at P2 at the same time.  And will also avoid a conflict with local stopping services coming from Cardiff using P3

Very well thought out   :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 11, 2018, 01:06:29 pm
OK then.  PRELIMINARY ROUTE INDICATOR (PRI).  These are used to give information to train drivers as to the route that is set ahead at a diverging junction where the aspect at the junction signal itself is already cleared for the route ahead (what is known as an UN-RESTRICTED ASPECT).  It consists of a MAIN ROUTE INDICATOR box that displays an arrow that repeats that of the junction signal itself, with the addition of a vertical arrow that shows if the junction signal route is set for the high speed route without any form of junction indication.

Here is an example showing that the route is set for the high speed divergence at the junction signal ahead (sorry but the website concerned will not allow copying of the images here so you need to follow the links):

5th image down here http://www.railsigns.uk/photos/p_route2/p_route2.html

They can be stand alone indicators (as in the case of the new one at Horfield Junction) or combined with any other type of signal as here:

Bottom image here http://www.railsigns.uk/photos/p_repsig1/p_repsig1.html

There can also be outer and an inner PRI to give more advanced warning in particular where the junction divergence is high speed in both directions.

I once designed the circuits for one of the inner and outer types at Colwich Junction on the WCML, and its probably one of the most complex bits of interlocking design I have ever done in my soon to be 50-year long S&T career ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 11, 2018, 01:21:15 pm
Dave, I wrote about the reversible working at Filton Abbey Wood in a post above: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg251122#msg251122  and if you look at the track layout I posted here, all is explained: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg236581#msg236581 and http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg248151#msg248151

This bidirectional section when it's commissioned will at least alleviate the bottleneck I was worried about between BPW and the relief lines south of FIT.  I always wondered why Filton Junction wasn't going to be re-modelled to allow southbound 'local' services to access P3 at FIT to prevent them holding up southbound XC and the new IET's on the down main

At least this way we'll have parallel running so that trains using the down main can go straight from BPW thru P1 at FIT, allowing stopping services from BPW to call at P2 at the same time.  And will also avoid a conflict with local stopping services coming from Cardiff using P3

Very well thought out   :)

Health Warning: It will only perform as good as the information that will be programmed into the AUTOMATIC ROUTE SETTING system, so don't expect the Filton 4T project to solve all the delay issues... :P


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 11, 2018, 01:28:44 pm
Health Warning: It will only perform as good as the information that will be programmed into the AUTOMATIC ROUTE SETTING system, so don't expect the Filton 4T project to solve all the delay issues... :P

Yeah as I was writing it I was wondering if ARS would be programmed to only ever route ALL trains from BPW to BRI thru FIT P1, and that the bidirectional option to use FIT P2 would only be used in dealing with delays etc...  we shall wait and see!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 11, 2018, 01:44:55 pm
Is anyone able to explain to me the difference between ARS and Electronic Live Block Overlays?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 11, 2018, 01:49:26 pm
They can be stand alone indicators (as in the case of the new one at Horfield Junction) or combined with any other type of signal as here:

Seeing as the actual junction signal on the Up Relief is now in place as per the pic I posted the other day, would it be sensible to assume this Prelim Route Indicator will be placed just south of Constable Rd bridge?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 11, 2018, 03:41:36 pm
They can be stand alone indicators (as in the case of the new one at Horfield Junction) or combined with any other type of signal as here:

Seeing as the actual junction signal on the Up Relief is now in place as per the pic I posted the other day, would it be sensible to assume this Prelim Route Indicator will be placed just south of Constable Rd bridge?

Its actually about 300m North of MULLER ROAD bridge (wherever that might be).  Just about where the old running line formation transition from Up side to Down side used to be.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 11, 2018, 03:46:53 pm
Is anyone able to explain to me the difference between ARS and Electronic Live Block Overlays?

Youv'e lost me there Red Squirrel.  Tried looking that one up with no success.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 11, 2018, 04:05:09 pm
They can be stand alone indicators (as in the case of the new one at Horfield Junction) or combined with any other type of signal as here:

Seeing as the actual junction signal on the Up Relief is now in place as per the pic I posted the other day, would it be sensible to assume this Prelim Route Indicator will be placed just south of Constable Rd bridge?

Its actually about 300m North of MULLER ROAD bridge (wherever that might be).  Just about where the old running line formation transition from Up side to Down side used to be.

Ah...  doubtful we'll be able to see it then apart from a passing train.  Not found any decent vantage points yet around where the track used to slew as I really wanted to photograph that part when they cut the line to make the new formation, unless anyone else has?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 11, 2018, 04:08:13 pm
Ah...  doubtful we'll be able to see it then apart from a passing train. ....

Has anyone sent a drone with a camera up ??


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on November 11, 2018, 04:10:53 pm
Ah...  doubtful we'll be able to see it then apart from a passing train. ....

Has anyone sent a drone with a camera up ??

Somewhat problematical with rules about drone flying close to buildings and transport infrastructure. You'd need to be a CAA certified drone pilot and gain permission from Network Rail.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 11, 2018, 04:24:07 pm
Is anyone able to explain to me the difference between ARS and Electronic Live Block Overlays?

Youv'e lost me there Red Squirrel.  Tried looking that one up with no success.

I'm sorry S&TE, I was setting it up in the hope that someone would knock it down for me: I don't know my ARS from my ELBO.

Electronic Live Block Overlays are a figment of my over-ripe imagination



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 11, 2018, 04:29:57 pm
Oh, b****y.  Fell into that one outright ;) ;D

Anyway, think we have now exhausted all the signalling issues.  Just over one week to go to commissioning!

Shall we award a prize to the first person to travel over both the new Main and Relief line formations?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 11, 2018, 05:00:34 pm
Out and about this afternoon, this time to Narroways and Ashley Hill:

First pic, from Narroways Hill Footbridge looking north, shows some new signals on the reliefs (well they looked new to me, I'm happy to stand corrected);
Second confirms metalrail's point about passive provision for a station at Ashley Hill - there is a goodly gap between the mains and reliefs, sufficient for quite a long island platform. Referring back to S&TE's most excellent diagram, it is clear that there is indeed also space for a platform on the mains here, which (to my simple mind) is odd given that they've just demolished the (arguably more useful) main line platforms at Stapleton Road. Hey ho.

 



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on November 11, 2018, 05:06:10 pm
I'm sorry S&TE, I was setting it up in the hope that someone would knock it down for me: I don't know my ARS from my ELBO.

For anyone else who struggles to differentiate their a*se from their elbow, the following is a handy ready reckoner.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/rps20181111_165726_zps7iomdufs.jpg)
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/FB_IMG_1541955534467_zpsxzb0xrxf.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 11, 2018, 05:18:13 pm
Ah...  doubtful we'll be able to see it then apart from a passing train.  Not found any decent vantage points yet around where the track used to slew as I really wanted to photograph that part when they cut the line to make the new formation, unless anyone else has?

There's a footbridge near the Dovercourt Road allotments (see https://goo.gl/maps/i1AQhGxX2BP2) which I think was replaced under the electrification scope, but which (for reasons best known to NR) has not reopened; might have been a good viewpoint. My brother took this vid from it in 2015; I was stood directly above the loco and found that this was a surprisingly good way to remove excess leg hairs: https://youtu.be/iLsvFe6ukHA


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on November 11, 2018, 05:27:26 pm
The gap between the Reliefs and the Mains was always there, and I'd imagine that it's still there because of the bridge spacings to the immediate north of the former station site :).

Here's one of my shots of a failed 47, which just about coasted alongside the former Up Relief platform, with a 47-hauled freight passing by on the Up Main -

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/9059595148/in/album-72157641961867643/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/9059595148/in/album-72157641961867643/)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 11, 2018, 05:45:14 pm
Ah...  doubtful we'll be able to see it then apart from a passing train.  Not found any decent vantage points yet around where the track used to slew as I really wanted to photograph that part when they cut the line to make the new formation, unless anyone else has?

There's a footbridge near the Dovercourt Road allotments (see https://goo.gl/maps/i1AQhGxX2BP2) which I think was replaced under the electrification scope, but which (for reasons best known to NR) has not reopened; might have been a good viewpoint. My brother took this vid from it in 2015; I was stood directly above the loco and found that this was a surprisingly good way to remove excess leg hairs: https://youtu.be/iLsvFe6ukHA

Its located about 450m South of there.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 11, 2018, 05:54:58 pm
Ah...  doubtful we'll be able to see it then apart from a passing train.  Not found any decent vantage points yet around where the track used to slew as I really wanted to photograph that part when they cut the line to make the new formation, unless anyone else has?

There's a footbridge near the Dovercourt Road allotments (see https://goo.gl/maps/i1AQhGxX2BP2) which I think was replaced under the electrification scope, but which (for reasons best known to NR) has not reopened; might have been a good viewpoint. My brother took this vid from it in 2015; I was stood directly above the loco and found that this was a surprisingly good way to remove excess leg hairs: https://youtu.be/iLsvFe6ukHA

Yeah i've tried getting access to that new footbridge a couple of times over the past 6 months but it's still blocked off  :(


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 11, 2018, 05:58:53 pm
Oh, b****y.  Fell into that one outright ;) ;D

Anyway, think we have now exhausted all the signalling issues.  Just over one week to go to commissioning!

Shall we award a prize to the first person to travel over both the new Main and Relief line formations?

Yep got me with that one too...  far too clever for my brain to figure out!!!   :P

I don't want a prize, but I have booked next Monday off to take a couple of trips up and down the bank on both my usual GWR local stoppers, and also XC, to see if I get to travel on both the main and relief lines.  Yes, I really am that sad!   ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 11, 2018, 07:04:15 pm
The gap between the Reliefs and the Mains was always there, and I'd imagine that it's still there because of the bridge spacings to the immediate north of the former station site :).

Here's one of my shots of a failed 47, which just about coasted alongside the former Up Relief platform, with a 47-hauled freight passing by on the Up Main -

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/9059595148/in/album-72157641961867643/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/9059595148/in/album-72157641961867643/)

Well that was my first take, after metalrail made his observation, but looking at it today I'd say that the gap was now wider than it was in your photo; in any case they could have chosen to bring the lines closer together sooner, maybe thus avoiding the need for some of the piling visible from Boiling Wells Lane.

The area to the east of the mains where any fourth platform would go looks pretty generous too, but that's probably just down to the removal of a lot of vegetation.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 11, 2018, 10:24:46 pm
The gap between the Reliefs and the Mains was always there, and I'd imagine that it's still there because of the bridge spacings to the immediate north of the former station site :).

Here's one of my shots of a failed 47, which just about coasted alongside the former Up Relief platform, with a 47-hauled freight passing by on the Up Main -

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/9059595148/in/album-72157641961867643/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/9059595148/in/album-72157641961867643/)

Well that was my first take, after metalrail made his observation, but looking at it today I'd say that the gap was now wider than it was in your photo; in any case they could have chosen to bring the lines closer together sooner, maybe thus avoiding the need for some of the piling visible from Boiling Wells Lane.

The area to the east of the mains where any fourth platform would go looks pretty generous too, but that's probably just down to the removal of a lot of vegetation.

Yeah the gap is definitely wider now than before.  I noticed from my train before the blockade when the new tracks had been put in just how much gap had been left between the 2 sets of lines along that whole straight run, and knowing from SandT's diagram showing they were making passive provision for the station to re-open there it was a relief to see they appeared to be planning ahead for that


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 11, 2018, 10:38:02 pm
In all my time in Bristol I referred to, and heard referred to, The Downs as the plural, never Clifton Downs.

That's not to say their aren't many erroneous references online to the entire Downs area as Clifton Downs. One of the chief culprits being the Bristol Post.

Family Allowance was abolished on 6 December 1971, being replaced by Child Benefit. In the twilight of my "career" in public service a couple of years back, I would still occasionally interview a teenage mother who, in answer to the question "What income do you have?" would say "Family Allowance". If I had time on my hands, I might pretend not to know what she was talking about, consulting lists of welfare benefits and feigning bafflement. The last sentence of that segment of the conversation was invariably "Well, I calls it Family Allowance", even though the girl's grandmother didn't ever get Family Allowance for her mother. This is but one of many examples that demonstrate that corrections to nomenclature take generations to effect in Bristol.

I originally had xmas/new year 2018/9 in my diary some two years ago, but it seems they decided to bring it all forward.  The weekend closures are probably for follow up track works (tamping, clearing up etc.).  Think there might still be something going on over xmas/new year but its probably only closure of two tracks out of four (nice having these four track railways isn't?).

I'll say!

Four Track, Now!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 12, 2018, 10:40:08 am
This is but one of many examples that demonstrate that corrections to nomenclature take generations to effect in Bristol.

Where language is concerned, the angels are with those who describe rather than prescribe (or even proscribe). So at Narroways Hill Junction, it's just interesting to see this process from the outset - quite possibly someone will put up a sign soon at the junction, without the 's', and it will begin to gain currency among railway folk. However the original name of the wider area is unlikely to go away just because of a clerical error in a Network Rail design office.

Whether The Downs is known idiomatically as Clifton Downs or not, we can be fairly clear that Clifton Down station was named after Clifton Down. Were the station to be renamed Clifton Downs, that would be neither a correction nor an error, but simply an acceptance that the idiom had become mainstream. It's a bit unlikely though, as it's not very near The Downs. How about Bahnhof Zoo?



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 12, 2018, 10:51:44 am
I was just looking back through this topic and suddenly realised that we started talking about this project just over 5 years ago.  Isn't it just typical of the UK to take so long to deliver such an important infrastructure project?  Never mind, it will all change after April 2019 when we will change to being a dynamic, thrusting, progressive independent nation (whoops, exposing my political colours a little bit there ::))......


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 12, 2018, 12:22:54 pm
I'm a bit surprised to find so much talk about the name of Clifton Down station. Some of you must have too much free time! I was really thinking that people very rarely refer to either Clifton Down or Durdham Down in speech (you do see the distinction made in print), but "the Downs".

How about Bahnhof Zoo?
Animal Garden.  :D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 12, 2018, 12:38:18 pm
I was just looking back through this topic and suddenly realised that we started talking about this project just over 5 years ago.  Isn't it just typical of the UK to take so long to deliver such an important infrastructure project? 

What about the electrification? That was announced well ahead of the Four Tracking project, and even the main 'core' of it isn't finished to Cardiff yet, let alone all the 'deferrals', one of which was Filton Bank and would have made perfect sense to work on at the same time as the four tracking / signalling upgrade over the past couple of years...  at the very least the piling work to get the OLE posts in, so the lineside neighbours don't have to go through another bout of noisy works!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 12, 2018, 12:44:21 pm
I was just looking back through this topic and suddenly realised that we started talking about this project just over 5 years ago.  Isn't it just typical of the UK to take so long to deliver such an important infrastructure project? 

Took 8 years to complete the GWR from London to Bristol, didn't it?

Still I'll tell you what: Filton Bank is turning into a bloody lovely bit o' railway!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 12, 2018, 12:47:44 pm
I'm a bit surprised to find so much talk about the name of Clifton Down station.

Well now ... if it were called "Whiteladies Road" Station, we would be having gender discussions and the rest!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rower40 on November 12, 2018, 12:53:59 pm
I'm a bit surprised to find so much talk about the name of Clifton Down station.

Well now ... if it were called "Whiteladies Road" Station, we would be having gender discussions and the rest!
Cue the politically incorrect quote from Blazing Saddles...
(Are there any other kinds of quote from that film?)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 12, 2018, 01:49:40 pm
Would have preferred if they had used nicer signals, those new ones look continental, rather they had used unipart elite range as in Cardiff.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 12, 2018, 02:03:59 pm
after looking at the picture from dave harries that signal BL1818 does look a bit too tall and weired, could,nt they have just replaced the head to 4 aspect and added a junction indicator to the old one, would of been much cheaper. lastly just noticed the ones in the picture of the gantry look like the elite type, much nicer.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 12, 2018, 02:53:27 pm
after looking at the picture from dave harries that signal BL1818 does look a bit too tall and weired, could,nt they have just replaced the head to 4 aspect and added a junction indicator to the old one, would of been much cheaper. lastly just noticed the ones in the picture of the gantry look like the elite type, much nicer.

Would have preferred if they had used nicer signals, those new ones look continental, rather they had used unipart elite range as in Cardiff.

Welcome to the forum ... I suspect we have some members who can give your the reasons for what they have used.

The railways, I understand, have an issue with lots of changes to what's used creating a big problem in spare holding and maintenance ... so I would hope that what's going in around Bristol isn't a unique design?   Even if it's different to South Wales?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 12, 2018, 03:15:30 pm
I know there have been photos a plenty in the last few days but seeing the works are rapidly coming to a conclusion I thought I'd get a couple of snaps of Filton as things are moving quite quickly now.
The new platform in the first picture is pretty much corbelled but the edging slabs are yet to go on and the platform surface is a work in progress too.
The re-profiled adjacent platform in the second photo does now have most of the edging slabs laid but again, work is needed on the platform surface.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 12, 2018, 04:43:13 pm
after looking at the picture from dave harries that signal BL1818 does look a bit too tall and weired, could,nt they have just replaced the head to 4 aspect and added a junction indicator to the old one, would of been much cheaper. lastly just noticed the ones in the picture of the gantry look like the elite type, much nicer.

The old post was probably life expired, so easier and more cost effective to provide a new signal.  Also older structures do not comply with modern H&S access requirements.  In 'em olden days' there used to be at least four different manufacturers of signal heads so no different to today as regards spares etc.

The modern railway doesn't do 'looks'.  Its all about money of course.....


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 12, 2018, 05:11:30 pm

The modern railway doesn't do 'looks'...


I dunno; I think Filton Bank looks bloody brilliant - with the exception of the access to P4 at Filton Abbey Wood station, which is an utter dog's breakfast


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 12, 2018, 06:02:19 pm
I know there have been photos a plenty in the last few days but seeing the works are rapidly coming to a conclusion I thought I'd get a couple of snaps...

#MeToo.

Finding myself in Bristol overnight, unexpectedly good weather, and the battery in the camera that I had forgotten to take out of the car still with a spark left in it, I went to see for myself. I concur with Red Squirel - it looks just like a modern railway should, electrics excepted.

Three shots of varying zoom looking towards Bonnington Walk bridge and the site of the obliterated Horfield station from Constable Road:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4848/44932013135_a8ac0afb49_c.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4870/45844719801_111b844f44_c.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4825/45120232154_78e1774d5c_c.jpg)

plus one with the smaller lens to show the real picture:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4823/45120285544_cd35d08c3c_c.jpg)

Next a couple looking the other way from the same bridge:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4826/30905221867_eacd24617e_c.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4810/45844654621_7b518e3878_c.jpg)

A lady even older than me (or having had even more fun in life, I don't know which) stopped to chat, as did a gentleman out walking his dog. Both were knowledgeable about what is going on, and said there has been a great deal of interest locally.

Stapleton Road station is closed off, so I took one at Easton Road bridge looking north:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4873/45845005781_5fb404fd7d_c.jpg)

and one looking the other way, with the northern tip of what is once again an island platform at Lawrence Hill:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4812/30905548027_b477c81e3e_c.jpg)

Speaking of Lawrence Hill, the view north:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4810/45795817122_bc9067e3bb_c.jpg)

and the other way, towards Days Junction:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4882/31974071588_5a7cda8b1e_c.jpg)

Then I went home. All beginning to come together!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 12, 2018, 06:16:50 pm
I was just looking back through this topic and suddenly realised that we started talking about this project just over 5 years ago.  Isn't it just typical of the UK to take so long to deliver such an important infrastructure project? 

Took 8 years to complete the GWR from London to Bristol, didn't it?


And longer than that to electrify part of it. The project was actually announced before the 2010 election - Autumn 2009 IIRC - so nine years and counting.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 12, 2018, 06:23:06 pm
I know there have been photos a plenty in the last few days but seeing the works are rapidly coming to a conclusion I thought I'd get a couple of snaps of Filton as things are moving quite quickly now.
The new platform in the first picture is pretty much corbelled but the edging slabs are yet to go on and the platform surface is a work in progress too.
The re-profiled adjacent platform in the second photo does now have most of the edging slabs laid but again, work is needed on the platform surface.


I take it these are both looking south?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 12, 2018, 07:09:29 pm

The modern railway doesn't do 'looks'...


I dunno; I think Filton Bank looks bloody brilliant - with the exception of the access to P4 at Filton Abbey Wood station, which is an utter dog's breakfast

I'll reserve judgement until I see everything tidied up at the end (remembering that usually once a project is commissioned on NR, and the money is all used up, sites usually get left like they are still an engineering worksite).  Shame also they couldn't make use of the blockage to cut back all the vegetation in the Up Cess though.... ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 12, 2018, 07:34:56 pm
By the way do not forget Paddington station is on tv tonight. Love the pictures, what is that thing we can see the back of, is it a new style banner repeater?.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: tramway on November 12, 2018, 07:42:02 pm
Agree S&T, vegetation clearance has been an opportunity missed.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 12, 2018, 07:50:08 pm
Love the pictures, what is that thing we can see the back of, is it a new style banner repeater?.

Yes. Its BL1812BR.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 12, 2018, 07:50:43 pm


Three shots of varying zoom looking towards Bonnington Walk bridge and the site of the obliterated Horfield station from Constable Road...

[/quote]

Excellent shots, and thanks very much for posting them. Amazing how the zoom lens exaggerates the kink in the main lines under the bridge. That is unchanged from the two-track formation - which was using the mains at this point - isn't it?

Lawrence Hill is a revelation - when one thinks that only a few weeks ago it was full of crud flush with the platform level.

The whole thing looks a good job.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 12, 2018, 07:51:30 pm
On one of four track nows pictures it shows on the right two really old tracks and a siding that looks disconnected, I assume they will be relaying that as well.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 12, 2018, 07:56:55 pm
On one of four track nows pictures it shows on the right two really old tracks and a siding that looks disconnected, I assume they will be relaying that as well.

Doubt it.  Thats the connection to Barrow Road Sidings that hasn't been active for a number of years.  Its not part of the project to relay the connection (nor it seems, clear the vegetation that has engulfed the siding).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 12, 2018, 07:59:32 pm
Love the pictures, what is that thing we can see the back of, is it a new style banner repeater?.

Yes. Its BL1812BR.

I hope they are leaving the banners for signal BL1580 as I loved seeing them off from a train, I assume signal BL1580 will be left as it is needed to route trains into filton by now having the pos 1 junction indicator for the turnout just beyond the station and the position 4 indicator for the route towards Bristol parkways platform 1. Sandt plans did not show signal positions on.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 12, 2018, 08:11:16 pm
I know there have been photos a plenty in the last few days but seeing the works are rapidly coming to a conclusion I thought I'd get a couple of snaps of Filton as things are moving quite quickly now.
The new platform in the first picture is pretty much corbelled but the edging slabs are yet to go on and the platform surface is a work in progress too.
The re-profiled adjacent platform in the second photo does now have most of the edging slabs laid but again, work is needed on the platform surface.


I take it these are both looking south?

Yes, although I forgot to take one looking north which last week was the site of a great deal of spent ballast removal. Now there are new tracks with fresh ballast looking rather good.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 12, 2018, 08:16:02 pm
Love the pictures, what is that thing we can see the back of, is it a new style banner repeater?.

Yes. Its BL1812BR.

I hope they are leaving the banners for signal BL1580 as I loved seeing them off from a train, I assume signal BL1580 will be left as it is needed to route trains into filton by now having the pos 1 junction indicator for the turnout just beyond the station and the position 4 indicator for the route towards Bristol parkways platform 1. Sandt plans did not show signal positions on.

Affraid not.  They are abolished.  BL1850 remains as before (but without its POSITION 4 JUNCTION INDICATOR), but is renewed due to the track slew.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 12, 2018, 08:35:19 pm

The modern railway doesn't do 'looks'...


I dunno; I think Filton Bank looks bloody brilliant - with the exception of the access to P4 at Filton Abbey Wood station, which is an utter dog's breakfast

It's not going to win any architectural prizes for sure but I'll give it until it's finished to see how it comes together. The rest of the station is no St Pancras anyway.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 12, 2018, 09:10:08 pm

It's not going to win any architectural prizes for sure but I'll give it until it's finished to see how it comes together. The rest of the station is no St Pancras anyway.


No indeed, but it can be functional without looking like a Minecraft world after the endermen have paid a visit...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 12, 2018, 09:28:07 pm
Love the pictures, what is that thing we can see the back of, is it a new style banner repeater?.

Yes. Its BL1812BR.

I hope they are leaving the banners for signal BL1580 as I loved seeing them off from a train, I assume signal BL1580 will be left as it is needed to route trains into filton by now having the pos 1 junction indicator for the turnout just beyond the station and the position 4 indicator for the route towards Bristol parkways platform 1. Sandt plans did not show signal positions on.

Affraid not.  They are abolished.  BL1850 remains as before (but without its POSITION 4 JUNCTION INDICATOR), but is renewed due to the track slew.

Yeah when I saw them last week I guessed they'd be coming out soon.  The left repeater was no longer needed as it was for Filton South junction which has now gone so there's no way / no need to transfer from the Up Main to Down Relief into FIT P3 like before


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 12, 2018, 09:30:43 pm
Finding myself in Bristol overnight, unexpectedly good weather, and the battery in the camera that I had forgotten to take out of the car still with a spark left in it, I went to see for myself. I concur with Red Squirel - it looks just like a modern railway should, electrics excepted.

Cheers for those great pics FT,N!...  looks like you had a real good jaunt around Brizzle today taking in all those!




Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 12, 2018, 10:00:55 pm
On one of four track nows pictures it shows on the right two really old tracks and a siding that looks disconnected, I assume they will be relaying that as well.

That "siding" was the Midland Railway route out of Temple Meads. It still exists as far as the end of the recycling depot in Days Road, and was used to transfer household waste to landfill sites until that fell from favour. It was disconnected not many years ago, to the great sorrow of BNM and others, but was remarkably rejoined, and used for a while to store coal trucks destined for Portbury or Avonmouth. I am surprised to see that it hasn't been removed completely this time, and that it looks as though provision has been made to reconnect it if it is needed.
It actually appears on two of the pictures. If you on the right of the picture immediately underneath, you will see it almost obscured by vegetation, before it turns off behind Lidl.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 12, 2018, 10:03:15 pm
Cheers for those great pics FT,N!...  looks like you had a real good jaunt around Brizzle today taking in all those!

Thanks, metalrail, although it was more point-to-point than jaunt. Lovely day for it though, until I got home.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 12, 2018, 11:07:04 pm

[/quote]

That "siding" was the Midland Railway route out of Temple Meads.

<snip>

It actually appears on two of the pictures. If you on the right of the picture immediately underneath, you will see it almost obscured by vegetation, before it turns off behind Lidl.
[/quote]

I hadn't realised there was a connection via the sidings.

But surely the actual Midland main line, having left the GW at Bristol East (on the north side), is the bridge crossing the GW on the skew north of Lawrence Hill. It then wandered off to the triangular junction at Mangotsfield, and the other end reappears just south of  Yate.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: DaveHarries on November 12, 2018, 11:52:55 pm
Its actually about 300m North of MULLER ROAD bridge (wherever that might be).
If you looked it up on Google Maps (or something similar) an approximate postcode would be BS7 9NZ which takes you into a retail park: the bridge in question is next to the southern end of said retail park as are some allotments.

after looking at the picture from dave harries that signal BL1818 does look a bit too tall and weired, could,nt they have just replaced the head to 4 aspect and added a junction indicator to the old one, would of been much cheaper. lastly just noticed the ones in the picture of the gantry look like the elite type, much nicer.
Interesting point. The same applies to Signals BL1981 on the line from Bath Spa, just before Bristol East Junctio: BL1981 is, for whatever reason, taller than BL1983.

Love the pictures, what is that thing we can see the back of, is it a new style banner repeater?.

Yes. Its BL1812BR.

I hope they are leaving the banners for signal BL1580 as I loved seeing them off from a train, I assume signal BL1580 will be left as it is needed to route trains into filton by now having the pos 1 junction indicator for the turnout just beyond the station and the position 4 indicator for the route towards Bristol parkways platform 1. Sandt plans did not show signal positions on.

Affraid not.  They are abolished.  BL1850 remains as before (but without its POSITION 4 JUNCTION INDICATOR), but is renewed due to the track slew.
Pity to see the BRs for BL1580 go as I also used to look at them when passing. I guess they will be kept for spares.

On another point I am surprised that, when I last looked over the weekend just gone, nothing has been done with BL1815 which is the starting signal for trains from Lawrence Hill towards Doctor Days Junction. This signal has been supported by a metal pole for some time so I am surprised that no opportunity has been taken to replace it.

Dave


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 13, 2018, 12:44:09 am

But surely the actual Midland main line, having left the GW at Bristol East (on the north side), is the bridge crossing the GW on the skew north of Lawrence Hill. It then wandered off to the triangular junction at Mangotsfield, and the other end reappears just south of  Yate.


You know, I think you're right, and that siding went under Barrow Road to St Philips.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 13, 2018, 07:20:27 am

But surely the actual Midland main line, having left the GW at Bristol East (on the north side), is the bridge crossing the GW on the skew north of Lawrence Hill. It then wandered off to the triangular junction at Mangotsfield, and the other end reappears just south of  Yate.


You know, I think you're right, and that siding went under Barrow Road to St Philips.

The siding - approaching from the north - left the GW on the west side (as visible in your photos) and passed under the Midland. It then curved round to the west and rose up to join the Midland's line. As you say, it went to St Philips but you could get to Temple Meads as well.

I googled this last night and was surprised to see the Midland route lasted till 1969 - any justification for keeping it having really disappeared with the Somerset & Dorset earlier in the '60s.

The curves at Westerleigh were put in at - or very shortly after - the opening of the Badminton line. The GWR had running powers to Berkeley Road (the Severn Bridge line being GW/MR Joint, I think).

So the current "Midland" route from Brum to Bristol is a patchwork job (the Gloucester avoiding line also being GW).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 13, 2018, 08:37:08 am
I googled this last night and was surprised to see the Midland route lasted till 1969 - any justification for keeping it having really disappeared with the Somerset & Dorset earlier in the '60s.

The curves at Westerleigh were put in at - or very shortly after - the opening of the Badminton line. The GWR had running powers to Berkeley Road (the Severn Bridge line being GW/MR Joint, I think).

So the current "Midland" route from Brum to Bristol is a patchwork job (the Gloucester avoiding line also being GW).


The Midland route to Bath Green Park was retained after the S & D closure for coal traffic to Bath gas works until they closed on areas conversion to natural gas.

The Midland line was closed prematurely when an embankment collapsed in the Fishponds area but a section from Yate is still in use today with oil traffic to the Murco oil terminal at Westerleigh.

Westerleigh East Curve I think you will find was a WWII addition but without looking it up in a book I got of the Bristol to Gloucester line cant comment on date of Westerleigh West curve. I think you will find that GWR had running powers over the Midland line from Yate South to Standish Junction as GWR ran services from Bristol to Birkenhead via Cheltenham, Stratford-on-Avon, Birmingham Snow Hill, Wolverhampton Low Level, Shrewsbury, Chester and Birkenhead. 


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 13, 2018, 09:25:50 am
To add my two penn'orth:

Filton Bank is part of what was the Bristol and South Wales Union Railway (as an aside there were two pubs named after this - one by Stapleton Road Station, and another which is now 'The Farm' in St Werburgh's); this route was never intended to take trains from Bristol to the north.

The route from Bristol to Yate via Mangotsfield was the Bristol and Gloucester Railway, which was built in Brunelian broad gauge and which the GWR hoped to acquire; as it happens the B&G got a better deal from the Midland (which involved them re-gauging and thus avoiding break of gauge at Gloucester for trains heading to Birmingham).

The Midland route - Bristol-Mangotsfield-Yate - is a more direct way from Bristol to the north, and avoids conflicts between east-west and north-south traffic which now have to share the line between Westerleigh and Parkway. It's a moot point whether we would now need four tracks up Filton Bank if they hadn't closed Bristol-Mangotsfield-Yate, but Parkway would be a less useful interchange than it now is.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 13, 2018, 09:26:52 am
Yep until the end of the 60's there were actually 6 tracks coming from the north to Bristol...  new user name anyone?!  ;)

In today's terms, that would mean all the XC services coming directly down thru Yate, Mangotsfield, Staple Hill, Fishponds and then onto BRI, leaving Filton Bank for all the services to both South Wales and the Badminton Line to Paddington

Plus before it closed earlier, the amazing 13 arches viaduct carrying the line from Kingswood Junction south of Fishponds to the 'Clifton Extension Railway' to Montpelier and beyond, with the Severn Beach line continuing on and looping back onto the GWR lines at Pilning and onto Patchway.  As well as the Henbury loop in between

Just think of all the various local services we'd still have if it were all still open...  would be almost like - what do they call them - ah yes, a 'Metro' system!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 10:04:02 am
The connection to the Midland Railway (LMS) line branched off at Bristol East signalbox as seen here at the top of the diagram:

(http://www.alextrack.co.uk/library/images/railways/signalling/bristol_east_signal_box/photographs/bristol_east_evening_post_large.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 13, 2018, 10:31:53 am
That picture is amazing!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 13, 2018, 11:28:24 am
The connection to the Midland Railway (LMS) line branched off at Bristol East signalbox as seen here at the top of the diagram:

Lovely picture.  Do I see that it was possible for a train to or from any of the three lines (Midland, Filton, Bath) to and from any of the platforms, and all via flat junctions.

Which gets the thinking that over time the number of platforms required relative to station throat capacity must have changed?    Looking back xxx years, trains came in, people got off, train was cleaned, things serviced and the same rake of coaches went back quite some time later.   These days, not only do we have much more frequent services, but also rolling stock doesn't need as much inter-jouney attention and so there's less of it, more intensely used.   Logic suggests that we need more throat per platform these days - or is that counteracted by the removal of light engine movements?



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 13, 2018, 12:01:29 pm
Its actually about 300m North of MULLER ROAD bridge (wherever that might be).
If you looked it up on Google Maps (or something similar) an approximate postcode would be BS7 9NZ which takes you into a retail park: the bridge in question is next to the southern end of said retail park as are some allotments.

after looking at the picture from dave harries that signal BL1818 does look a bit too tall and weired, could,nt they have just replaced the head to 4 aspect and added a junction indicator to the old one, would of been much cheaper. lastly just noticed the ones in the picture of the gantry look like the elite type, much nicer.
Interesting point. The same applies to Signals BL1981 on the line from Bath Spa, just before Bristol East Junctio: BL1981 is, for whatever reason, taller than BL1983.

Love the pictures, what is that thing we can see the back of, is it a new style banner repeater?.

Yes. Its BL1812BR.

I hope they are leaving the banners for signal BL1580 as I loved seeing them off from a train, I assume signal BL1580 will be left as it is needed to route trains into filton by now having the pos 1 junction indicator for the turnout just beyond the station and the position 4 indicator for the route towards Bristol parkways platform 1. Sandt plans did not show signal positions on.

Affraid not.  They are abolished.  BL1850 remains as before (but without its POSITION 4 JUNCTION INDICATOR), but is renewed due to the track slew.
Pity to see the BRs for BL1580 go as I also used to look at them when passing. I guess they will be kept for spares.

On another point I am surprised that, when I last looked over the weekend just gone, nothing has been done with BL1815 which is the starting signal for trains from Lawrence Hill towards Doctor Days Junction. This signal has been supported by a metal pole for some time so I am surprised that no opportunity has been taken to replace it.

Dave

BL1815 is a signal that has pos 1 2 3 4 Junction Indicators on, or it did when I last looked, it probably is alright, Any way better than the ones we have in Gloucester as those have been there for so long that the bare metal now shows on many of them, G154 plus its pos 1 ji G54 G58 G52 G50 are some examples, Also G133 that a route indicator that has gone green and now the routes no longer show through.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 12:38:49 pm
BL1815 only has Position 1, 2 and 3 JUNCTION INDICATORS.  There has never been a main route from there to the UP FILTON RELIEF towards BRISTOL EAST JUNCTION, only a subsidiary one preceeded by shunt signal BL6625 leading to BARROW ROAD DEPOT.

Not at all supprised by the condition of signals at Gloucester.  NR has no money for maintenance renewals these days (although might get a little bit in CP6).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 12:53:50 pm
Just for Grahames benefit.  This is what it all used to look like.  As well as the bits you can see there were also scissor crossings in the main platforms in the train shed that allowed two trains to access/egress to each part at any one time.

You can also just make out the Midland (LMS) line heading away top right behind the gas holders.  Look at the size of the goods shed as well.  Anybody remember that?

And just to make sure we stay on topic the Filton lines head away north at the extreme right top.

(https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/lowres-picturecabinet.com/43/main/18/96923.jpg)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 01:01:04 pm
.....and here is the left hand end of the BRISTOL EAST signalbox diagram that you can't see in the earlier photograph.  Note that BRISTOL OLD STATION had been abolished by then and its tracks/signals abolished, so that dates the photograph to sometime in the mid-1960s.

(http://www.alextrack.co.uk/library/images/templot/illuminated_diagrams.jpg)

...and a low resolution drawing of the whole layout here: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwb/S586.htm


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 13, 2018, 01:04:04 pm
BL1815 only has Position 1, 2 and 3 JUNCTION INDICATORS.  There has never been a main route from there to the UP FILTON RELIEF towards BRISTOL EAST JUNCTION, only a subsidiary one preceeded by shunt signal BL6625 leading to BARROW ROAD DEPOT.

Not at all supprised by the condition of signals at Gloucester.  NR has no money for maintenance renewals these days (although might get a little bit in CP6).


I have just been told that under CP6 That Network Rail are planning to resignal Gloucester and Cheltenham within the next 18 months, The plan he said was to put the ine from Charfield to Churchdown onto TVSC And the line on towards Birmingham on to WMSC.


Does anybody know if signal BL1511 At Bristol Parkway being replaced.


Lastly the open train times map is now now out of date for the filton lines. Some signals seem to be showing OFF, when they shouldnt be.




Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 13, 2018, 01:13:00 pm
What else you can see in the aerial photo is the big shed - GWR's Temple MillsMeads Goods stationDepot - north of the passenger one. And if you know where to look, you can see the MR equivalent at St Philip's, where there was also a very small passenger station.

The siding - approaching from the north - left the GW on the west side (as visible in your photos) and passed under the Midland. It then curved round to the west and rose up to join the Midland's line. As you say, it went to St Philips but you could get to Temple Meads as well.

Going back to the current vestigial siding on part of the MR line and connected to Filton Bank (ex GWR), there is no sign of such a connection in any of the OS maps up to the 30s. Once the MR tracks turned off north before Bristol east Junction, they were hermetically separate from GWR's ones all the way out of town. There were GWR sidings beside Lawrence Hill station, but the surveyors never saw any connection. Of course there could have been one made at any time during or after the war, if not when the MR lines were closed.

There was, however, an earlier link via a chord off the north of the MR line down to Filton Bank northwards. That was taken up around 1900 - funny thing, inter-railway relations.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 01:14:18 pm
BL1815 only has Position 1, 2 and 3 JUNCTION INDICATORS.  There has never been a main route from there to the UP FILTON RELIEF towards BRISTOL EAST JUNCTION, only a subsidiary one preceeded by shunt signal BL6625 leading to BARROW ROAD DEPOT.

Not at all supprised by the condition of signals at Gloucester.  NR has no money for maintenance renewals these days (although might get a little bit in CP6).


I have just been told that under CP6 That Network Rail are planning to resignal Gloucester and Cheltenham within the next 18 months, The plan he said was to put the ine from Charfield to Churchdown onto TVSC And the line on towards Birmingham on to WMSC.

Does anybody know if signal BL1511 At Bristol Parkway being replaced.


Lastly the open train times map is now now out of date for the filton lines. Some signals seem to be showing OFF, when they shouldnt be.

BL1511 signal isn't being renewed but will be fitted with a flashing double yellow aspect once the Filton project is completed in the new year 2019.

There are some big NR boundary changes going to take place in the Gloucester/Cheltenham area in 2019.  I've not heard of any resignalling plans for that area yet and I would think that "in the next 18 months" probably means the start of design work only....


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 01:15:36 pm
If you look here there is an excellent section on the area we are discussing and the topic as well!

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/bristol-tm-to-severn-beach.html


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 13, 2018, 01:28:51 pm
If you look here there is an excellent section on the area we are discussing and the topic as well!

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/bristol-tm-to-severn-beach.html


Thanks for the pictures there, it showed signal no BL1815 With its pos 1 2 3 indicators on and another on the filton down when it was previously there,One thing why was the filton lines removed, only to cost NR loads of money to put back, there is so much waste in this country.Not to mention the contents of a bin bag in my kitchen full of unnessary
 packaging.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 13, 2018, 01:33:38 pm
...GWR's Temple Mills goods station 

...or TEMPLE MEAD as railway folk call it ;):)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on November 13, 2018, 01:35:36 pm
If you look here there is an excellent section on the area we are discussing and the topic as well!

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/bristol-tm-to-severn-beach.html


Thanks for the pictures there, it showed signal no BL1815 With its pos 1 2 3 indicators on and another on the filton down when it was previously there,One thing why was the filton lines removed, only to cost NR loads of money to put back, there is so much waste in this country.Not to mention the contents of a bin bag in my kitchen full of unnessary
 packaging.

The Up and Down Filton Mains were supposedly closed due to the weak condition of the former bridge over Stapleton Road, which for several years, had a permanent speed restriction over it.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 13, 2018, 01:40:44 pm
BL1815 only has Position 1, 2 and 3 JUNCTION INDICATORS.  There has never been a main route from there to the UP FILTON RELIEF towards BRISTOL EAST JUNCTION, only a subsidiary one preceeded by shunt signal BL6625 leading to BARROW ROAD DEPOT.

Not at all supprised by the condition of signals at Gloucester.  NR has no money for maintenance renewals these days (although might get a little bit in CP6).


I have just been told that under CP6 That Network Rail are planning to resignal Gloucester and Cheltenham within the next 18 months, The plan he said was to put the ine from Charfield to Churchdown onto TVSC And the line on towards Birmingham on to WMSC.

Does anybody know if signal BL1511 At Bristol Parkway being replaced.


Lastly the open train times map is now now out of date for the filton lines. Some signals seem to be showing OFF, when they shouldnt be.

BL1511 signal isn't being renewed but will be fitted with a flashing double yellow aspect once the Filton project is completed in the new year 2019.

There are some big NR boundary changes going to take place in the Gloucester/Cheltenham area in 2019.  I've not heard of any resignalling plans for that area yet and I would think that "in the next 18 months" probably means the start of design work only....


Isuppose the flashing double yellow on signal BL1511 is because of the signal BL1573 Which I assume will flash a single yellow on approach to the new crossovers.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 13, 2018, 01:51:50 pm
The Up and Down Filton Mains were supposedly closed due to the weak condition of the former bridge over Stapleton Road, which for several years, had a permanent speed restriction over it.

To add to that: The River Froom/Frome used to run under the northern span of the old Stapleton Road viaduct, but was diverted when the M32 was built. I'm told that as the land dried out as a consequence of this, it did for the viaduct's foundations. Obviously they could have been fixed at the time, but this was the early 80's - no-one was planning for expansion; the future of the Severn Beach line was in doubt, and two tracks would just have to do.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 01:55:05 pm
No, its for BL1533 at Patchway Junction.  The UP TUNNEL line from the Severn Tunnel to there is going to have reversible signalling installed. For routes through the new Horfield Junction the aspect sequence will be unrestricted (due to the junction turnout speed being the same as the line speed), and BL1511 signal will show a green aspect in that case.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 13, 2018, 01:56:35 pm
The Up and Down Filton Mains were supposedly closed due to the weak condition of the former bridge over Stapleton Road, which for several years, had a permanent speed restriction over it.

To add to that: The River Froom/Frome used to run under the northern span of the old Stapleton Road viaduct, but was diverted when the M32 was built. I'm told that as the land dried out as a consequence of this, it did for the viaduct's foundations. Obviously they could have been fixed at the time, but this was the early 80's - no-one was planning for expansion; the future of the Severn Beach line was in doubt, and two tracks would just have to do.


Thanks for that, see it, say it, sorted.


Severn Beach is still there and in use.

One last thing for now as I have to go to Sainsburys, Are dispatch boxes now to be fitted on Bristol parkway and filton AW stations. This would be so staff would have the close door and right away function for trains.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 13, 2018, 03:14:21 pm
...GWR's Temple Mills goods station 

...or TEMPLE MEAD as railway folk call it ;):)

I should know by now not to post something quickly just before dashing out to have lunch ...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 03:14:32 pm
I've just had a look at the signalling records and Lawrence Hill Junction (as it was known - the Midland/LMS Connection) was taken out of use in July 1968.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 03:15:43 pm
...GWR's Temple Mills goods station 

...or TEMPLE MEAD as railway folk call it ;):)

I should know by now not to post something quickly just before dashing out to have lunch ...

Don't worry.  He has been having a go at me as well.  We will have our revenge ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 13, 2018, 04:27:16 pm
I've just had a look at the signalling records and Lawrence Hill Junction (as it was known - the Midland/LMS Connection) was taken out of use in July 1968.

For the avoidance of doubt, "Lawrence Hill Junction" was where the MR/LMS lines from St Philip's and Temple Meads joined, before going under Lawrence Hill (the road), not the junction called "Lawrence Hill Ground Frame" until recently (unless it still exists), which previously connected the sidings at Lawrence Hill Goods Yard to the line on Filton Bank north of Lawrence Hill Station - yes?

Now, what prevented two railways having junctions or signal boxes with identical names? With so much running over each others metals it would be so confusing that common suggests it oughtn't to be allowed, but railway sense may have said something else.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on November 13, 2018, 04:39:19 pm
Gloucester Area resignaling was originally scheduled for 2021, with susposed reverse time improvements buy up to 2 minutes.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 04:41:18 pm
I've just had a look at the signalling records and Lawrence Hill Junction (as it was known - the Midland/LMS Connection) was taken out of use in July 1968.

For the avoidance of doubt, "Lawrence Hill Junction" was where the MR/LMS lines from St Philip's and Temple Meads joined, before going under Lawrence Hill (the road), not the junction called "Lawrence Hill Ground Frame" until recently (unless it still exists), which previously connected the sidings at Lawrence Hill Goods Yard to the line on Filton Bank north of Lawrence Hill Station - yes?

Now, what prevented two railways having junctions or signal boxes with identical names? With so much running over each others metals it would be so confusing that common suggests it oughtn't to be allowed, but railway sense may have said something else.

Correct on the first two points (pun intended).  The Ground Frame and siding is still there and we discussed it further up thread.

On the third point, nothing prevented the duplication of a name on another railway even if jointly utilised.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 04:43:22 pm
Gloucester Area resignaling was originally scheduled for 2021, with susposed reverse time improvements buy up to 2 minutes.

Was that the CP5 plan or CP6 plan?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 13, 2018, 05:00:04 pm
Just for Grahames benefit.  This is what it all used to look like.  As well as the bits you can see there were also scissor crossings in the main platforms in the train shed that allowed two trains to access/egress to each part at any one time.

You can also just make out the Midland (LMS) line heading away top right behind the gas holders.  Look at the size of the goods shed as well.  Anybody remember that?

And just to make sure we stay on topic the Filton lines head away north at the extreme right top.

(https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/lowres-picturecabinet.com/43/main/18/96923.jpg)

Great seeing the line to the harbour railway on here too, running down to the left of the original passenger shed, and then down to the bottom left across the road and onwards towards Redcliffe tunnel


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 13, 2018, 05:14:17 pm
Great seeing the line to the harbour railway on here too, running down to the left of the original passenger shed, and then down to the bottom left across the road and onwards towards Redcliffe tunnel

Other things of interest: The old tram terminus shed, at the foot of the incline; the tramlines which served this are still in situ; also notice the gateway structure to the left of the Old Station facade, which this had a mate to the right of the facade which was demolished for the tram terminal. Finally, the tower over the entry at the top of the incline has its steeple - unusually, this actually was destroyed by the Luftwaffe and not the town planners... I live in hope that this will be restored when Temple Meads finally gets its long-overdue makeover.

A tram terminal at Temple Meads? What nonsense I hear you say; what kind of lunatic would think it a good idea to integrate a tram system with the main railway system? Thankfully it was seen for that madness that it was, and swept away by 1941.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 13, 2018, 05:20:53 pm
.....and here is the left hand end of the BRISTOL EAST signalbox diagram that you can't see in the earlier photograph.  Note that BRISTOL OLD STATION had been abolished by then and its tracks/signals abolished, so that dates the photograph to sometime in the mid-1960s.

(http://www.alextrack.co.uk/library/images/templot/illuminated_diagrams.jpg)

...and a low resolution drawing of the whole layout here: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwb/S586.htm

There is one of these track layout diagrams showing simulations of trains in and out of Temple Meads showing the track circuits being used in the Signalling Centre at the Didcot Railway Centre.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 13, 2018, 05:38:41 pm
There was an accident at Lawrence Hill in 1930, and the report is online in the Railways Archive (http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=1857). In itself that mostly tells you how long ago this was and how primitive goods train operations were - all that messing about pinning down and picking up brakes. Mind you, the last unfitted goods ran not so long ago - 1980s sometime. The inspector's conclusion was to blame one of the signalmen (their accounts flatly contradicted each other), but he identified the real cause as "loose block working". All that disciplined following of every rule in the (big) book at all times  really was essential to safety.

A couple of snippets, though, about the line - two line pairs, the South Wales lines to the east and the Clifton lines to the west. That was out of date by then, with four tracks all the way to Filton, though not long before (20 years at most) those Clifton lines did only turn left at Narroways (hence no junction). And the inspector says that traffic was 350 trains on all four tracks over 24 hours, with 27 stopping to pick up brakes.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 06:04:52 pm
Yes, interesting report concerning slack working.  Noted the at that time the Up direction was towards Dr Days Junction and not as today.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 13, 2018, 06:37:49 pm

[/quote]

Westerleigh East Curve I think you will find was a WWII addition but without looking it up in a book I got of the Bristol to Gloucester line cant comment on date of Westerleigh West curve. I think you will find that GWR had running powers over the Midland line from Yate South to Standish Junction as GWR ran services from Bristol to Birkenhead via Cheltenham, Stratford-on-Avon, Birmingham Snow Hill, Wolverhampton Low Level, Shrewsbury, Chester and Birkenhead. 

[/quote]

Yes, I think you're right about both curves. The east one would still be useful for diversionary purposes when the Sapperton route is closed, but we don't really do sensible things like that nowadays.

The wiki article on Westerleigh suggests 1908 for the west curve. That is consistent with what I read elsewhere about the Midland agreeing running powers to Berkeley Road only *from the Badminton line*. The running powers from Bristol to Standish were not in dispute, but the lawyer in me suspects that the Midland felt that these applied only all the way from Bristol and didn't allow the GW to dump stuff on to the MR at Yate from its new-fangled line. But I am not enough of an expert on running powers - and we're straying a long way from Filton! 


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 13, 2018, 07:20:50 pm
Gloucester Area resignaling was originally scheduled for 2021, with susposed reverse time improvements buy up to 2 minutes.

Was that the CP5 plan or CP6 plan?

Think it was under CP6.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 13, 2018, 07:28:07 pm
Both Westerleigh E & W curves / junctions were present in the 1939 RCH maps


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 13, 2018, 07:32:11 pm
Gloucester Area resignaling was originally scheduled for 2021, with susposed reverse time improvements buy up to 2 minutes.

Presumable achieved with quicker entry and exit speeds into the platforms?  IET's will also see reversal time improvements over HST operated services as the cab is a couple of minutes quicker to set up.  We will see if the timetable planners take advantage of that next December I suppose.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 13, 2018, 07:44:07 pm
Gloucester Area resignaling was originally scheduled for 2021, with susposed reverse time improvements buy up to 2 minutes.

Presumable achieved with quicker entry and exit speeds into the platforms?  IET's will also see reversal time improvements over HST operated services as the cab is a couple of minutes quicker to set up.  We will see if the timetable planners take advantage of that next December I suppose.


When the IET Trains first ran into Gloucester they tried the 10 car ones and found that the platforms 1 and 2 were not long enough and had to then use platform 4. At the moment some 5 car and 9 car ones are used for now. Signals G58 and G133 on platform 2 needed to be moved slightly. I think they would be better off getting rid of platform 1 and moving to the top of platform 4. You would have two long ones plus a bay for swindon and Malvern turbos,


Is there any plans to alter the layout east of Bristol temple meads, I wonder as some signals were not replaced, only renumbered, while at the Plymouth end they were all renewed.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 13, 2018, 08:10:08 pm
Is there any plans to alter the layout east of Bristol temple meads, I wonder as some signals were not replaced, only renumbered, while at the Plymouth end they were all renewed.

Its already been 'resignalled/recontrolled' from TVSC at Didcot, so nothing planned as far as I understand it.  Next and final stage is Bristol North Somerset Junction to Box Tunnel in April 2019.  Not sure if there are any CP6 plans to close Bristol Panel and recontrol the remaining area to TVSC (or even Exeter ROC thats being planned or at least talked about).

Of course, if the long mooted plan to reopen the Old Bristol Train Shed platforms comes to pass, then Bristol Panel will have to go as its in the way......


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 13, 2018, 08:14:46 pm
Is there any plans to alter the layout east of Bristol temple meads, I wonder as some signals were not replaced, only renumbered, while at the Plymouth end they were all renewed.

Its already been 'resignalled/recontrolled' from TVSC at Didcot, so nothing planned as far as I understand it.  Next and final stage is Bristol North Somerset Junction to Box Tunnel in April 2019.  Not sure if there are any CP6 plans to close Bristol Panel and recontrol the remaining area to TVSC (or even Exeter ROC thats being planned or at least talked about).

Of course, if the long mooted plan to reopen the Old Bristol Train Shed platforms comes to pass, then Bristol Panel will have to go as its in the way......

I had been told that a new I E C C. Was planned for Exeter to work to Penzance as TVSC Was now full.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 13, 2018, 09:03:35 pm
I did find one map that showed a route off the MR line to the (new) Lawrence Hill Junction - it's labelled "Russian Map Bristol 1972 (https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/361351/180663/10/100981)" (presumably Soviet would be more accurate). There are other postwar OS maps (also on old-maps.co.uk) that show the MR line on an embankment and the sidings at its foot - well, you wouldn't want the sidings to slope down to the junction, would you?

I can believe the OS didn't always update track changes by then - too many roads and new houses, or railway buildings coming down (as at St. Philip's), to do. But I'm sure the Soviets (GRU, I guess) had independent survey information: I have a mental image of men in raincoats deftly manipulating those tiny 16 mm still cameras. Or do you think they had help from some local university lecturers who could easily claim to be railway buffs?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 13, 2018, 09:23:56 pm
Both Westerleigh E & W curves / junctions were present in the 1939 RCH maps

Yes, wiki re the Badminton line - which, curiously has more detail on Westerleigh than the entry on Westerleigh itself - suggests the east curve lasted intermittently from 1908 to 1950, with closure from 1916 to 1919, and a long period of closure from 1927 to 1942. Both curves appear in Jowett.

Wish me luck on a Worcester-Bristol return trip tomorrow - via Swindon, of course.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 13, 2018, 09:56:37 pm
I did find one map that showed a route off the MR line to the (new) Lawrence Hill Junction - it's labelled "Russian Map Bristol 1972 (https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/361351/180663/10/100981)" (presumably Soviet would be more accurate). There are other postwar OS maps (also on old-maps.co.uk) that show the MR line on an embankment and the sidings at its foot - well, you wouldn't want the sidings to slope down to the junction, would you?

I can believe the OS didn't always update track changes by then - too many roads and new houses, or railway buildings coming down (as at St. Philip's), to do. But I'm sure the Soviets (GRU, I guess) had independent survey information: I have a mental image of men in raincoats deftly manipulating those tiny 16 mm still cameras. Or do you think they had help from some local university lecturers who could easily claim to be railway buffs?
Does anyone on this forum live in Salisbury?
<pulls down brim of hat, looks shiftily from side to side>


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 13, 2018, 11:25:13 pm
Is there any plans to alter the layout east of Bristol temple meads, I wonder as some signals were not replaced, only renumbered, while at the Plymouth end they were all renewed.

Its already been 'resignalled/recontrolled' from TVSC at Didcot, so nothing planned as far as I understand it.  Next and final stage is Bristol North Somerset Junction to Box Tunnel in April 2019.  Not sure if there are any CP6 plans to close Bristol Panel and recontrol the remaining area to TVSC (or even Exeter ROC thats being planned or at least talked about).

Of course, if the long mooted plan to reopen the Old Bristol Train Shed platforms comes to pass, then Bristol Panel will have to go as its in the way......

And part of reopening the Old Shed platforms along with electrification to Temple Meads was to remodel Bristol E Junction too wasn't it?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 14, 2018, 12:17:53 pm
The aspects on a 3-aspect LED signal (R/Y/G) are all displayed through the lower aspect and on a 4-aspect LED signal the top aspect displays the additional double yellow aspect only (Y) or what in the trade we call the 'top yellow' or 'second yellow'.

Hope that makes sense?  Read all about it here: http://www.unipartdorman.com/assets/lightweight_signalling_handbook.pdf
Health Warning: Its a large document


It makes sense to me (it confirms what I thought I knew already), but clarity for those to whom it doesn't make sense would be improved if one of the uses of 'aspect' was replaced with a different word. For instance if "The aspects on a 3-aspect LED signal (R/Y/G) are all displayed through the lower aspect" became "The aspects on a 3-aspect LED signal (R/Y/G) are all displayed through the lower lens". However, railway jargon, like all jargons, isn't really intended to make sense to the general public, so this doesn't actually matter!


I think we need new meanings about signal aspects, First the old ones were multiple aspect ones, as the old signaling using turn switch or push button panels were know, also eNtrance eXit is included. Now the new led signals with combined heads should I think be called triple aspect signals, sounds better dosent it.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: DaveHarries on November 15, 2018, 12:53:45 am
Just for Grahames benefit.  This is what it all used to look like.  As well as the bits you can see there were also scissor crossings in the main platforms in the train shed that allowed two trains to access/egress to each part at any one time.

You can also just make out the Midland (LMS) line heading away top right behind the gas holders.  Look at the size of the goods shed as well.  Anybody remember that?

And just to make sure we stay on topic the Filton lines head away north at the extreme right top.

(https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/lowres-picturecabinet.com/43/main/18/96923.jpg)
Nice photo: thank you for sharing it although pity I can't see a bit more detail by zooming in because clicking on the image you posted doesn't make it bigger.

For my contribution to the matter of the LMS / Midland lines I have a map which gives the signalling layout through, I think, Bristol Temple Meads after the MAS had come in during the early 1930s. Seems to suggest that the connection from Bristol TM to the Mangotsfield line ran down the left-hand side of what is now Barton Hill WRD. The map has gaps where the backing allows the map to fold up so I edited the fold bit out although it is not hard to see where. Good investment that map: cost me £50 earlier this year (IIRC) at a bookfair in the old passenger shed at, coincidentally, Bristol Temple Meads.

HTIOI,
Dave


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 15, 2018, 05:30:41 am
Just for Grahames benefit.  This is what it all used to look like.

Thank you - fascinating .... and I think it's proving of huge interest to others too  ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on November 15, 2018, 06:53:03 am
Here's a view of mine, showing what used to be the Up and Down lines from the GW to the LMS at Barton Hill, taken from the old Days Road bridge.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/4295535347/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/4295535347/)

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 15, 2018, 09:06:31 am
F4T T-4  ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 15, 2018, 10:19:08 am
Here's a view of mine, showing what used to be the Up and Down lines from the GW to the LMS at Barton Hill, taken from the old Days Road bridge.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/4295535347/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/4295535347/)
Very Best Wishes,
Bob.

That piccy brings back memories. That shed ? (open barn) with the whitish roof in the piccy was the overnight/weekend stabling point for the Bristol Blue Pullman set.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 15, 2018, 12:29:44 pm
Does anybody know at what time the newly laid Filton Bank will be handed back to train operators.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Phantom on November 15, 2018, 02:09:22 pm
Does anybody know at what time the newly laid Filton Bank will be handed back to train operators.

Not sure if this is normal but there is a crosscountry service timed to leave Barton Hill 0507 Monday morning and will be the first service through this area. It is going into Bristol Parkway (0519) then turning back (0531) and going to Bath Spa for 0556, and will form the 0609 to Glasgow

A freight train and an IET are due through there just after


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 15, 2018, 02:55:16 pm
Does anybody know at what time the newly laid Filton Bank will be handed back to train operators.

The opening notice says effective from 0520 on 19 November 2019.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 15, 2018, 07:11:12 pm
Does anybody know at what time the newly laid Filton Bank will be handed back to train operators.

The opening notice says effective from 0520 on 19 November 2019.


Lovely, Thanks for that.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: XPT on November 15, 2018, 08:35:22 pm
Will there be two new platforms at Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road?  Even though they would be on the fast lines and most of the time would not be used.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 15, 2018, 09:22:01 pm
Will there be two new platforms at Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road?  Even though they would be on the fast lines and most of the time would not be used.

There are no FAST LINES and there won't be any platforms.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 16, 2018, 08:51:17 am
Will there be two new platforms at Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road?  Even though they would be on the fast lines and most of the time would not be used.

There are no FAST LINES and there won't be any platforms.

It's been discussed before, but I still don't understand: Does anyone know the operational or logical reasoning behind making passive provision for a four-platform station at Ashley Hill, whilst (in the same package of works) demolishing the main line platforms at Stapleton Road? Lawrence Hill is perhaps more debatable, but Stapleton Road was historically an interchange and could have been again...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 16, 2018, 10:07:05 am
Passive provision is just space. It doesn't have to be filled and unless it involves extensively repositioning other things, it doesn't cost anything much. Any future station would need a platform on each "relief" line and the down platform being an island doesn't mean both sides have to be used, as Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Rd show. Perhaps this is overly cynical, I don't know...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 16, 2018, 10:50:18 am
Passive provision is just space. It doesn't have to be filled and unless it involves extensively repositioning other things, it doesn't cost anything much. Any future station would need a platform on each "relief" line and the down platform being an island doesn't mean both sides have to be used, as Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Rd show. Perhaps this is overly cynical, I don't know...


There has been talk of a station at Constable Road but I can't see that there has been 'passive provision' for a station at that location but due to the existing (and historical) infrastructure the site of the former Horfield station has the looks of 'passive provision' for a station but that location is too near Filton Abbey Wood for a station, however from the piccys posted on this thread the 'passive provision' for a station on the site of the former Ashley Hill station would tend to serve the Lockleaze area just as well as one at Constable Road as the walk from most parts of Lockleaze would entail a walk along Constable Road itself whereas a phoenix of a station arising from the remains of the former Ashley Hill would entail a walk down Romney Avenue / Shaldon Road crossing Muller Road and up the track previously mentioned in a post of mine on this thread.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 16, 2018, 11:59:25 am
Passive provision is just space. It doesn't have to be filled and unless it involves extensively repositioning other things, it doesn't cost anything much. Any future station would need a platform on each "relief" line and the down platform being an island doesn't mean both sides have to be used, as Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Rd show. Perhaps this is overly cynical, I don't know...

S&TE's diagram shows passive provision for a four-platform station. While this passive provision was being made, Stapleton Road was being actively 'deprovisioned'.

There has been talk of a station at Constable Road but I can't see that there has been 'passive provision' for a station at that location but due to the existing (and historical) infrastructure the site of the former Horfield station has the looks of 'passive provision' for a station but that location is too near Filton Abbey Wood for a station, however from the piccys posted on this thread the 'passive provision' for a station on the site of the former Ashley Hill station would tend to serve the Lockleaze area just as well as one at Constable Road as the walk from most parts of Lockleaze would entail a walk along Constable Road itself whereas a phoenix of a station arising from the remains of the former Ashley Hill would entail a walk down Romney Avenue / Shaldon Road crossing Muller Road and up the track previously mentioned in a post of mine on this thread.

I seem to remember that NR are only prepared to schedule a single stop between Stapleton Road and Filton Abbey Wood. As to the Horfield Halt site: this is now full of high-speed pointwork, and there's nothing left of the old infrastructure... hard to see how that would ever be rebuilt.

Ashley Hill is a good location - potential for really good access, and handy for Fairfield School, City of Bristol College, The County Ground, Gloucester Road - OK, I'm biased; near me too.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 16, 2018, 12:09:56 pm
I've resisted linking to all the twittage that NR have been blurting of late, on the assumption that you can find it as well as I can if you're interested(!), but this one is worth looking at because in the background you can see the one bit of track we've not been able to get at - by Dovercourt Road Allotments: https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1063401565883633664

By the way, David, 'enormity' refers to monstrous evil... I think 'size' would have been a better word!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 16, 2018, 01:02:55 pm
Why is everything NR does is 'challenging' ::)

Interesting to note the Major Projects Manager hasn't been on the track much (he has a blue safety helmet).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 16, 2018, 01:08:52 pm
I seem to remember that NR are only prepared to schedule a single stop between Stapleton Road and Filton Abbey Wood. As to the Horfield Halt site: this is now full of high-speed pointwork, and there's nothing left of the old infrastructure... hard to see how that would ever be rebuilt.

Ashley Hill is a good location - potential for really good access, and handy for Fairfield School, City of Bristol College, The County Ground, Gloucester Road - OK, I'm biased; near me too.

Yeah they said a few years back that the option of both a Horfield and Ashley Hill station had been ruled out so only one would be provided.  The fact - like you've said - that the old Horfield station site has now been completely obliterated and turned into the new 'Horfield Junction' completely rules out re-instating the station there, plus it is very close to FIT

Ashley Hill will make a really good midway point between FIT and SRD with a large catchment area, and lots of local amenities that you mention that could benefit from it

Doesn't make sense to me having the platforms on the 2 main lines, just the 2 on the relief lines should suffice perfectly well, along with the 2 both at LWH and SRD.  Any stopping trains running down from BPW will be switched onto the relief's at Horfield Junction anyway, so would then be able to call at Ashley Hill, along with SRD where you could change to the Severn Beach line


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Phantom on November 16, 2018, 01:24:51 pm
Why is everything NR does is 'challenging' ::)


I'd prefer the phrase "doing our job"


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 16, 2018, 01:26:31 pm
I seem to remember that NR are only prepared to schedule a single stop between Stapleton Road and Filton Abbey Wood. As to the Horfield Halt site: this is now full of high-speed pointwork, and there's nothing left of the old infrastructure... hard to see how that would ever be rebuilt.

Ashley Hill is a good location - potential for really good access, and handy for Fairfield School, City of Bristol College, The County Ground, Gloucester Road - OK, I'm biased; near me too.

Yeah they said a few years back that the option of both a Horfield and Ashley Hill station had been ruled out so only one would be provided.  The fact - like you've said - that the old Horfield station site has now been completely obliterated and turned into the new 'Horfield Junction' completely rules out re-instating the station there, plus it is very close to FIT

Ashley Hill will make a really good midway point between FIT and SRD with a large catchment area, and lots of local amenities that you mention that could benefit from it

Doesn't make sense to me having the platforms on the 2 main lines, just the 2 on the relief lines should suffice perfectly well, along with the 2 both at LWH and SRD.  Any stopping trains running down from BPW will be switched onto the relief's at Horfield Junction anyway, so would then be able to call at Ashley Hill, along with SRD where you could change to the Severn Beach line

Sorted this is the best plan.

I assume that trains from Gloucester will use the relief lines as many trains also stop Stapleton and Lawrence.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 16, 2018, 01:36:38 pm
F4T  T-3  :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 16, 2018, 02:25:09 pm
Passive provision is just space. It doesn't have to be filled and unless it involves extensively repositioning other things, it doesn't cost anything much. Any future station would need a platform on each "relief" line and the down platform being an island doesn't mean both sides have to be used, as Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Rd show. Perhaps this is overly cynical, I don't know...

S&TE's diagram shows passive provision for a four-platform station. While this passive provision was being made, Stapleton Road was being actively 'deprovisioned'.
I presume the old main line platforms at Stapleton Rd were demolished because that made the four-tracking easier. They certainly had a lot of plant there.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 16, 2018, 02:33:35 pm
F4T  T-3  :)

 :) :) :)

The thought have having to mix it with the binners for another Friday morning school run makes me feel physically sick. I'm not expecting everything to be working on Monday, but please please let it be sorted by Friday!

Doesn't make sense to me having the platforms on the 2 main lines, just the 2 on the relief lines should suffice perfectly well, along with the 2 both at LWH and SRD.  Any stopping trains running down from BPW will be switched onto the relief's at Horfield Junction anyway, so would then be able to call at Ashley Hill, along with SRD where you could change to the Severn Beach line

Thank you - at last I understand! Why allow for 4 platforms at Ashley Hill though?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 16, 2018, 03:25:40 pm
I assume that trains from Gloucester will use the relief lines as many trains also stop Stapleton and Lawrence.

With the current timetable, yeah the local hourly xx.19 to xx.23 GWR stopping services from Gloucester / Worcester / Great Malvern will have to switch to the relief lines at the new Horfield Junction as they're currently the only regular southbound services from BPW that stop at SRD & LWH, and after Horfield Junction there's no other way to reach the relief's

However all of the current XC services switching to the main lines, along with the future IET services to be introduced in the future, that should allow more trains to serve SRD & LWH in both directions

Currently the xx.12 hourly WSM service starting at BPW doesn't call at these stations southbound, but does on it's return from WSM to BPW.  So with more capacity on the bank now being introduced, so long as they switch either the long distance stoppers or the WSM service to a different time, we'd be able to have a hourly service stopping all stations down the bank and back again to / from BPW (which i'd personally be grateful for!)  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 16, 2018, 03:27:38 pm
Thank you - at last I understand! Why allow for 4 platforms at Ashley Hill though?

I'm assuming it's exactly that, just allowing for them, even though it's 99% likely that platforms would only actually be built on the relief's

Guess we have to be grateful that they've been allowed for in the first place...  nice to know forward planning has actually happened in this case! 


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 16, 2018, 03:30:28 pm

I presume the old main line platforms at Stapleton Rd were demolished because that made the four-tracking easier. They certainly had a lot of plant there.

The 2 new main lines were actually laid with the old P4 and the full island platform still in situ so there was plenty of room for the platform to stay.  My understanding is that they've had to remove P4 to incorporate the 2km new log flume access ramp to the footbridge that isn't being opened until April!   ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 16, 2018, 03:49:55 pm
Exciting news from the Evening Bristol. However did they find out about this?

Quote
When the Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway rail line will finally reopen revealed

Your time on rail replacement bus services is coming to an end

The railway line between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway train stations will reopen next week after upgrade works were completed on schedule.

Network Rail has confirmed the line between the two stations will reopen following nearly a month of works on Monday (November 19) morning.

During that time, crews have worked around the clock do double the number of existing railway lines and improve signalling equipment.

It is hoped doubling the number of tracks from two to four will enable an increase in train services, including more journeys between Bristol and London.

(https://i2-prod.bristolpost.co.uk/incoming/article436118.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/5_34399859.jpg)

More here: https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/when-temple-meads-parkway-reopen-2225132


Good choice of picture: GWR Driver Mr Sydney Gardens drives an InterCity Express train through Lockleaze. How many tracks can you see?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Trowres on November 16, 2018, 04:00:58 pm
Why is everything NR does is 'challenging' ::)

Because even a plain ladder crossover is Complex
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1060108439521767424 (https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1060108439521767424)

Does that mean it has real and imaginary parts?

By which adjective would NR describe this? :-
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/dbduck2010/media/bWVkaWFJZDo3NDcxMTI3MQ==/?ref= (http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/dbduck2010/media/bWVkaWFJZDo3NDcxMTI3MQ==/?ref=)



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on November 16, 2018, 05:30:08 pm
Exciting news from the Evening Bristol. However did they find out about this?
Quote
It is hoped doubling the number of tracks from two to four will enable an increase in train services, including more journeys between Bristol and London...
^^^
So it’s a case of build it then work out what it can be used for?   ::)

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 16, 2018, 05:57:17 pm

By which adjective would NR describe this? :-
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/dbduck2010/media/bWVkaWFJZDo3NDcxMTI3MQ==/?ref= (http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/dbduck2010/media/bWVkaWFJZDo3NDcxMTI3MQ==/?ref=)

Nowadays?  Impossible!  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 16, 2018, 06:29:31 pm
Rower40 posted a warning a while back (here (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg249809#msg249809)) about limited platforming options at Filton Abbey Wood until the timetable gets rewritten. However, that may not help a lot given the restrictions of the track layout.

A path via platforms 1 and 2 can take any track or route, north or south. However, for platforms 3 and 4 only paths using the Relief Lines to the south and going via Patchway are possible. So P1/2 must accommodate all trains using the Mains and all trains via Parkway.

Currently the primary stopping service reaching FIT is provided by trains via or to/from Parkway, plus a few to Cardiff, and the Severn Beach trains use part of the line only. If that is still the pattern, then the capacity is limited to that of one pair of platforms and tracks, plus however many south Wales trains also use the Reliefs (but may not stop). Filton Bank as a whole is only a short stretch of line, so mixing fast and slow paths will work, but any increase in the number of stopping trains reduces the number and speed of available non-stop paths using P3/4 at FIT.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 16, 2018, 08:49:48 pm
Don't forget that after new year 2019, Filton Abbey Wood platform No.2 becomes reversible and useable by Down Trains between Bristol Parkway and Bristol TM.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 17, 2018, 11:40:38 am
Don't forget that after new year 2019, Filton Abbey Wood platform No.2 becomes reversible and useable by Down Trains between Bristol Parkway and Bristol TM.

Why then.? Why not now.

Is there a proper running signal now at the London end of Platform 2. I wondered as it shows a LOS signal on Opentraintimes map. Also spotted unusual running of trains a Gloucester train went from platform 4, The signal was still red. Plus a Bristol Parkway to Cardiff goes from 1. Again the signal did not work. I Hope the map gets sorted by NR soon as it is driving me banannas.

Forgot to say this refers to Bristol Parkway.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 17, 2018, 12:01:13 pm
Don't forget that after new year 2019, Filton Abbey Wood platform No.2 becomes reversible and useable by Down Trains between Bristol Parkway and Bristol TM.

Why then.? Why not now.


Can't do it until they update the Electronic Live Block Overlays? ;):)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 17, 2018, 12:03:36 pm
Don't forget that after new year 2019, Filton Abbey Wood platform No.2 becomes reversible and useable by Down Trains between Bristol Parkway and Bristol TM.

Why then.? Why not now.


Can't do it until they update the Electronic Line Block Overlays? ;):)

I assume these are modules and software that allows the axle counters to work in reverse.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 17, 2018, 12:29:10 pm
I must stop this; it's not big and it's not clever...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on November 17, 2018, 01:14:56 pm
I hope FT,N aka Tony of the Teflon Tonsils and Taffeta tuxedo is doing his vocal warm up scales and arpeggios for his warm up arial 'Fourtrack for Filton Bank' to be sung on Monday morning....


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 17, 2018, 01:52:04 pm
I hope FT,N aka Tony of the Teflon Tonsils and Taffeta tuxedo is doing his vocal warm up scales and arpeggios for his warm up arial 'Fourtrack for Filton Bank' to be sung on Monday morning....

If he does, let me know which station he'll be performing at so I can catch my train from somewhere else!   ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 17, 2018, 02:13:56 pm
I hope FT,N aka Tony of the Teflon Tonsils and Taffeta tuxedo is doing his vocal warm up scales and arpeggios for his warm up arial 'Fourtrack for Filton Bank' to be sung on Monday morning....

If he does, let me know which station he'll be performing at so I can catch my train from somewhere else!   ;)

After the IET inaugural service publicity event's comedic outcome at Temple Meads, I wonder if the constructors,local politicians and rail chiefs are a little wary of being seen at any opening ceremony for the 4track. These sort of things have a bit of a history going back to Huskisson on day one.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 17, 2018, 02:45:43 pm
Don't forget that after new year 2019, Filton Abbey Wood platform No.2 becomes reversible and useable by Down Trains between Bristol Parkway and Bristol TM.

That should add flexibility, and maybe help with timings, but I don't see that it adds timetable capacity - borrowing the wrong platform line takes out too many potential paths, and this is on the busy side of the station.

As to why the facility isn't delivered by Monday, think about planning the work. Having found you need a blockade, you put into just the things that otherwise take years to do in short possessions, then anything else that is easier done then and doesn't push up the risk of overrunning, or would be a pain to resume operation without. Anything that can only be done at the end, after the major track changes, is a risk as it doesn't leave time to recover from problems, so if it can be done later you'd leave it out.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 17, 2018, 03:13:20 pm
Probably me being naïve, but I am assuming that the two coming weekend blockades are there at least in part to fix any snags...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on November 17, 2018, 08:56:42 pm
I hope FT,N aka Tony of the Teflon Tonsils and Taffeta tuxedo is doing his vocal warm up scales and arpeggios for his warm up arial 'Fourtrack for Filton Bank' to be sung on Monday morning....

As far as I'm aware, FT,N! is currently reposed in warmer climes.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 17, 2018, 08:59:23 pm
Don't forget that after new year 2019, Filton Abbey Wood platform No.2 becomes reversible and useable by Down Trains between Bristol Parkway and Bristol TM.

Why then.? Why not now.

Is there a proper running signal now at the London end of Platform 2. I wondered as it shows a LOS signal on Opentraintimes map. Also spotted unusual running of trains a Gloucester train went from platform 4, The signal was still red. Plus a Bristol Parkway to Cardiff goes from 1. Again the signal did not work. I Hope the map gets sorted by NR soon as it is driving me banannas.


Because there is further signalling work required at Bristol Parkway to introduce the third line and additional signals/routes.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 17, 2018, 10:36:38 pm
F4T T-2 ;D

According to the Train Manager on a XC service I was on yesterday (16/11/2018), XC were understood to be making contingency plans for a possible overrun on Monday.  Might just be railway talk of course ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 17, 2018, 11:17:30 pm
XC were understood to be making contingency plans for a possible overrun on Monday...

As are prudent passengers :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 17, 2018, 11:30:56 pm
XC were understood to be making contingency plans for a possible overrun on Monday...

As are prudent passengers :)

Really? That would be disappointing, bearing in mind that all the track was done by the middle of the second week, and the weather conditions have been perfect throughout.

When they do reopen will it be all four tracks or everything on the reliefs at first?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on November 18, 2018, 12:54:40 am
XC were understood to be making contingency plans for a possible overrun on Monday...

As are prudent passengers :)

Really? That would be disappointing, bearing in mind that all the track was done by the middle of the second week, and the weather conditions have been perfect throughout.

When they do reopen will it be all four tracks or everything on the reliefs at first?
I don’t think it is quite as straightforward as modified existing reliefs and completely new mains, each track pair includes a bit of both.  That is, there’s no logical reason why the reliefs should be in any better position for reopening than the mains.

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on November 18, 2018, 12:57:24 am
I must stop this; it's not big and it's not clever...
If only you’d realised the most difficult aspect of the work was the “W for wiring”.   ;D

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 18, 2018, 08:03:13 am
F4T T-1 :D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 18, 2018, 01:02:57 pm
Now that the Filton Bank is to open tomorrow, Now the next exciting thing for NR is to reach down the back of their sofas, and find money to now Electrify the route, how much does one think this would cost, and would it be needed yet.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 18, 2018, 01:36:01 pm
Now that the Filton Bank is to open tomorrow, Now the next exciting thing for NR is to reach down the back of their sofas, and find money to now Electrify the route, how much does one think this would cost, and would it be needed yet.

The only benefit it would have to start with is when the new IET direct services are introduced from PAD to BRI, stopping at BPW only.  So when these services start they'll run electric right from PAD to BPW, then switch over to diesel between BPW and BRI.  None of the other services using the bank will be electric as they all head to non electrified parts of the network (CDF to BRI services usually run on past BRI too)

Long answer - while electrifying the bank would be great to be able to run these new services electric right thru, it involves a hell of a lot of work at BRI end.  The original plan was for Bristol East Junction to be remodelled prior to electrification of the station, and also to bring the old Midland Shed back into use for the new IET terminating platforms.  There's no way they're gonna run electrics down the bank and across Bristol East to a couple of selected existing platforms at BRI, would make no sense.  And the Midland Shed is still obstructed by Bristol Panel Box, which still controls Bristol South down towards Taunton (and was still controlling towards Bath but the switchover for that to TVSC was imminent if I remember rightly)

Short answer - until they electrify the whole of BRI (involving the changes mentioned above) there's no point in electrifying the bank just yet

Think it's a case of wait and see what happens with the last section from Chippenham to BRI too


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 18, 2018, 02:09:15 pm
Now that the Filton Bank is to open tomorrow, Now the next exciting thing for NR is to reach down the back of their sofas, and find money to now Electrify the route, how much does one think this would cost, and would it be needed yet.

The only benefit it would have to start with is when the new IET direct services are introduced from PAD to BRI, stopping at BPW only.  So when these services start they'll run electric right from PAD to BPW, then switch over to diesel between BPW and BRI.  None of the other services using the bank will be electric as they all head to non electrified parts of the network (CDF to BRI services usually run on past BRI too)

That is assuming that plans don't get changed for service connections.  A 15 minute electric service from Cardiff to Bristol Temple Meads, terminating incoming trains from Portsmouth and Taunton at Temple Meads, running Westbury to Severn Beach sort of thing.  Could happen quickly once the string was up!  Also bimode options ...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 18, 2018, 04:07:38 pm

Now that the Filton Bank is to open tomorrow, Now the next exciting thing for NR is to reach down the back of their sofas, and find money to now Electrify the route, how much does one think this would cost, and would it be needed yet.

The only benefit it would have to start with is when the new IET direct services are introduced from PAD to BRI, stopping at BPW only.  So when these services start they'll run electric right from PAD to BPW, then switch over to diesel between BPW and BRI.  None of the other services using the bank will be electric as they all head to non electrified parts of the network (CDF to BRI services usually run on past BRI too)

I Was actually thinking that they would run the wires into the overall roof part of Temple Meads to the end of platforms 4 and 6, Then the lines would meet outside and run then on towards bath and swindon when that is done. All IET Trains would then use the inner platforms.The outer ones under the 1935 part of the station would be for all others plus platform 1 for the severn beach trains. The old panel,when demolished would allow for the IET Trains also use the new Platforms. Platform 15 needs to be renumbered 14 and the the new ones in the old shed 15 and 16.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 18, 2018, 04:28:46 pm
A sequence of photos taken at Filton Abbey Wood today:
1. The Orangemen take on the old signage;
2. Gone...
3. And here's the new one!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 18, 2018, 04:33:47 pm
...and here are some general photos looking south from the footbridge:
1. Looking from Platform 1 to Platform 4;
2. From the other side, looking towards Platform 1. There's Four Platforms, Now!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adrian on November 18, 2018, 05:06:00 pm
That is assuming that plans don't get changed for service connections.  A 15 minute electric service from Cardiff to Bristol Temple Meads, terminating incoming trains from Portsmouth and Taunton at Temple Meads, running Westbury to Severn Beach sort of thing.  Could happen quickly once the string was up!  Also bimode options ...

A more frequent Cardiff - Temple Meads service could allow at least one train an hour to go via Parkway, giving Severn Tunnel Junction and Patchway passengers a connection into London-bound services.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on November 18, 2018, 05:56:05 pm
Did I read trains to London?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 18, 2018, 06:05:09 pm
Did I read trains to London?

All schemes must include improved services to London otherwise they'll never be allowed off the starting blocks. If a Portishead had been to Paddington rather than Temple Meads or Tavistock to Waterloo rather than Plymouth had been proposed, they would have been running by now.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 18, 2018, 09:48:34 pm
F4T T-0.5 ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 18, 2018, 09:59:09 pm
F4T T-0.5 ;D

And the $64,000 question: will the line reopen tomorrow morning as planned?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 18, 2018, 10:06:04 pm
Well, I have my next post drafted out ready just in case: F4T T+1.... ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 18, 2018, 10:27:20 pm
Well, I have my next post drafted out ready just in case: F4T T+1.... ::)

Let's hope you won't need it. I have grim memories of the Stoke blockade (it lasted a couple of months, IIRC) during the WCML upgrade. At 2230 on the Sunday evening Network Rail were saying reopening was happening. At 0600 on the Monday I turned up for a train, and reopening had slipped... by a week. See Crossrail for a more recent example of this phenomenon.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 18, 2018, 11:07:56 pm
I will be finishing work late morning tomorrow with a plan to go straight to Parkway or Abbey Wood to give the four tracking to Temple Meads a go. Might just have a quick check beforehand that trains are running though, not that I'm doubting NR off course. 😉


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 19, 2018, 06:34:34 am
F4T T-0.5 ;D

And the $64,000 question: will the line reopen tomorrow morning as planned?

Open but stifled?

Quote
Cancellations to services between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway
Due to a fault with the signalling system between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 10:00 19/11.
Last Updated:19/11/2018 06:03


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on November 19, 2018, 06:51:45 am
Fixed now.

Quote
Trains now running normally between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway
Following a fault with the signalling system between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway the line has now reopened.
Train services running through these stations are now running normally.
Last Updated:19/11/2018 06:35


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 19, 2018, 07:23:10 am
Fixed now.

Quote
Trains now running normally between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway
Following a fault with the signalling system between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway the line has now reopened.
Train services running through these stations are now running normally.
Last Updated:19/11/2018 06:35

Credit where credit is due. Well done, Network Rail.

Now, if they could get the new printed timetable up on the website in PDF form that would be excellent. It's less than three weeks away - should be there.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 19, 2018, 09:05:04 am
It looks like none of the public mapping sites have updated their maps yet, which is a bit of a shame.  Even Railcam, which is usually very on-the-ball, still has the previous layout with trains ‘disappearing’.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 19, 2018, 09:07:24 am

Credit where credit is due. Well done, Network Rail.


Absolutely. Bloody brilliant!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 19, 2018, 09:08:38 am
Yes, well done to all the staff involved.  Now lets start making good use of it all.  No good letting it sit there and carry on as before.  Wonder how ARS is feeling this morning ::) :P


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 19, 2018, 09:09:25 am

Credit where credit is due. Well done, Network Rail.

Absolutely. Bloody brilliant!

Photos please RS.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 19, 2018, 09:11:41 am
You want MORE?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on November 19, 2018, 09:12:48 am
You want MORE?

I'm now stuck in Huntingdon, so YES please!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 19, 2018, 09:16:57 am
Good news!  ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 19, 2018, 09:24:00 am
You want MORE?

Oh yes (please)!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 19, 2018, 09:32:02 am
Fan... bloody... tastic!!!  HUGE well done NR   ;D



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on November 19, 2018, 09:53:06 am
Now, if they could get the new printed timetable up on the website in PDF form that would be excellent. It's less than three weeks away - should be there.
GWR timetable change starts 1st January and even then only minor changes hence it yet to appear on the GWR website. This was put back to January in the anticipation of the completely new timetable starting after Christmas engineering works. This will be end of next year now.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 19, 2018, 11:19:32 am
Fixed now.

Quote
Trains now running normally between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway
Following a fault with the signalling system between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway the line has now reopened.
Train services running through these stations are now running normally.
Last Updated:19/11/2018 06:35

That's the beauty of having engineers still on site to troubleshoot and fix anything as soon as it arises  :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on November 19, 2018, 11:38:20 am
http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True (http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 19, 2018, 11:41:07 am
http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True (http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True)

Great.  Let's hope the rest follow soon...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 19, 2018, 11:54:14 am
http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True (http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True)

Thanks for that Bristolian...  can actually track trains using all 4 lines now, rather than keep disappearing around new Horfield Junction like they do on OpenTrain!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on November 19, 2018, 11:55:13 am
http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True (http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True)

Thanks for that Bristolian...  can actually track trains using all 4 lines now, rather than keep disappearing around new Horfield Junction like they do on OpenTrain!

:)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 19, 2018, 12:09:33 pm
Off to Abbey Wood to sample the delights of the 4 tracking to Temple Meads. Humming to myself "Four Trackin'" to the melody of that colossus of 1980's popular music "Star Trekkin'".
"It's Filton Bank Jim, but not as we know it"!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 19, 2018, 12:15:47 pm
The burning question is when will a certain comma be removed from a certain forum member name?   ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 19, 2018, 12:17:07 pm
Oops!

Just tracked a glitch that's delayed 2 other trains at FIT!

The 1F12 PMH to CDF suddenly detoured from the Up Relief to the Up Main even tho it was scheduled into FIT P4

The 1M41 PGN to MAN then got stuck on the Up Main south of FIT while they obviously had to transfer everyone over from P4 to P2 for the CDF train (even the Trainline departures page suddenly changed from P4 to P2 which is pretty quick)

Meanwhile, 1F13 CDF to PMH got stuck at Filton Junction waiting for the 1F12 to cross back onto the S Wales lines before it could head into FIT P3

Guess ARS needs a bit more tweaking!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 19, 2018, 12:32:11 pm
Hello Filton Bank, Are you feeling better now that you,ve come out of Hospital, Cant wait to get on the Weymouth train from Gloucester and ride down to see you.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 19, 2018, 12:42:46 pm
Oops!

Just tracked a glitch that's delayed 2 other trains at FIT!

The 1F12 PMH to CDF suddenly detoured from the Up Relief to the Up Main even tho it was scheduled into FIT P4

The 1M41 PGN to MAN then got stuck on the Up Main south of FIT while they obviously had to transfer everyone over from P4 to P2 for the CDF train (even the Trainline departures page suddenly changed from P4 to P2 which is pretty quick)

Meanwhile, 1F13 CDF to PMH got stuck at Filton Junction waiting for the 1F12 to cross back onto the S Wales lines before it could head into FIT P3

Guess ARS needs a bit more tweaking!

Perhaps they,ve switched it off for now and manually setting routes.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 19, 2018, 12:56:24 pm
Oops!

Just tracked a glitch that's delayed 2 other trains at FIT!

The 1F12 PMH to CDF suddenly detoured from the Up Relief to the Up Main even tho it was scheduled into FIT P4

The 1M41 PGN to MAN then got stuck on the Up Main south of FIT while they obviously had to transfer everyone over from P4 to P2 for the CDF train (even the Trainline departures page suddenly changed from P4 to P2 which is pretty quick)

Meanwhile, 1F13 CDF to PMH got stuck at Filton Junction waiting for the 1F12 to cross back onto the S Wales lines before it could head into FIT P3

Guess ARS needs a bit more tweaking!

Perhaps they,ve switched it off for now and manually setting routes.

Maybe...  but on the flipside, just tracked another couple which really showed the benefit of the 4 tracking...

XC to PLY running 12 minutes late from BPW, got to FIT just after the on-time CDF to TAU went thru P3

The XC sped down along the Down Main slowly catching up the TAU train on the Down Relief, to the point they both ended up running parallel from Bristol East Junction into BRI, and made up 5 minutes of it's delay!

Great to see it doing it's job already on Day 1   ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 19, 2018, 12:57:12 pm
Severn Beach trains are starting to show some fairly meaty delays too... 2K22 (BRI-AVN) 16 mins down at SRD...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 19, 2018, 01:11:48 pm
...and becomes, if I'm reading it right, our first CFN turnback of the new regime...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 19, 2018, 01:21:07 pm
Wondering if they are overriding ARS more today...

The 1V17 MAN to BRI was late running at BPW and got switched straight from P2 to P1 to overtake a PAD to SWA service due to follow in P2

Never seen them do that before without them having to wait a while first


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 19, 2018, 01:35:35 pm
Wondering if they are overriding ARS more today...

The 1V17 MAN to BRI was late running at BPW and got switched straight from P2 to P1 to overtake a PAD to SWA service due to follow in P2

Never seen them do that before without them having to wait a while first

This is all well and good, But cannot see it on Opentraintimes as they are longwinded getting the map working, Its all gone to cock!, Signals not working in correct sequence.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 19, 2018, 01:37:01 pm
...and becomes, if I'm reading it right, our first CFN turnback of the new regime...

Why are they turning Chris from Nailsea back?  As honest as midsummer day is long ... I can't imagine him being turned back from anything.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 19, 2018, 01:38:45 pm
Wondering if they are overriding ARS more today...

The 1V17 MAN to BRI was late running at BPW and got switched straight from P2 to P1 to overtake a PAD to SWA service due to follow in P2

Never seen them do that before without them having to wait a while first

This is all well and good, But cannot see it on Opentraintimes as they are longwinded getting the map working, Its all gone to cock!, Signals not working in correct sequence.

Check Bristolian's post about using Trackit on previous page...  all updated and working a treat compared to OpenTrain


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 19, 2018, 01:48:15 pm
Wondering if they are overriding ARS more today...

The 1V17 MAN to BRI was late running at BPW and got switched straight from P2 to P1 to overtake a PAD to SWA service due to follow in P2

Never seen them do that before without them having to wait a while first

This is all well and good, But cannot see it on Opentraintimes as they are longwinded getting the map working, Its all gone to cock!, Signals not working in correct sequence.

Check Bristolian's post about using Trackit on previous page...  all updated and working a treat compared to OpenTrain


I Have just looked at that, but does not show signal aspects.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 19, 2018, 01:51:42 pm
Think they all need a bit of time to catch up

Main thing is the service itself is running and already improving service from the start


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 19, 2018, 02:08:12 pm
Think they all need a bit of time to catch up

Main thing is the service itself is running and already improving service from the start

I have a huge sympathy for the providers of free web sites and data (especially those who are not a part of the commercial rail industry) when the underlying data changes - especially in those circumstances where they have to wait and see what the systems throw at them when something goes live / data is released in a new format.    Been there - and I know there's another data handling rush for me on 11th December when the ORR station stats come out and we have to take a look at what format they've chosen this year, and what data is in which column to add to our databases!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 19, 2018, 02:27:46 pm
'Beach line looks to be back to normal; looks like it was a ripple from the problem metalrail described.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 19, 2018, 03:45:11 pm
'Beach line looks to be back to normal; looks like it was a ripple from the problem metalrail described.

Caught my 14.34 Temple Meads to Redland okay but I think the 14.03 may not have run.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 19, 2018, 04:32:39 pm
Not sure if it's a signalling issue, but for the past hour or so there's been delays on the Up Main from just south of FIT on to BPW

Trains running up the bank and then getting stuck behind each other for around 10 minutes before they eventually proceed onto BPW

1M93 to MAN the latest casualty...  left BRI 1 minute late, just been stuck for 23 minutes   :(

Up Main and both relief's seem to be ok tho


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 19, 2018, 04:44:06 pm
Looks like things on the move again...  phew!

Don't want the press getting hold of any teething problems on the first day, cos teething problems is what they are!   :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 19, 2018, 05:27:07 pm
Possibly not what people had in mind when they asked for more pictures, but here's what today meant to me.

First is Clifton Down, getting back to its busy self;
Second: School run completed, stress-free, for the first time in weeks!
Finally: Pity they couldn't have done something about this while they were at it...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on November 19, 2018, 07:04:16 pm
'Beach line looks to be back to normal; looks like it was a ripple from the problem metalrail described.

Caught my 14.34 Temple Meads to Redland okay but I think the 14.03 may not have run.

The 14:03 did run


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 19, 2018, 07:08:03 pm
Passing through Stapleton Road station today, although the main line side of the island platform is still a bit of a mess, it looks like the platform wall has been rebuilt and edging slabs are being laid by the track. In short, it's at least looking like a regular platform there. Now, I know that there are no plans for a third platform at the station but what seems to be going on there looks to be at the very top end of what you could describe as passive future provision.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 19, 2018, 07:11:08 pm
Just watched 1M69 go up relief from Bristol and down over points into Plat 2 at Filton.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 19, 2018, 07:17:41 pm
'Beach line looks to be back to normal; looks like it was a ripple from the problem metalrail described.

Caught my 14.34 Temple Meads to Redland okay but I think the 14.03 may not have run.

Ah, the reason I doubted that it was running was that I jumped on an earlier Temple Meads to Parkway service and broke the journey at Lawrence Hill to do a quick shop at Lidl before taking the Beach Line home.  Checking the platform departures info point, the 14.03 was not showing.

The 14:03 did run


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adrian on November 19, 2018, 07:44:10 pm
http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True (http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True)

Is there really not a crossover at Dr Days Junction to get from the relief line to Feeder Bridge Junction?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on November 19, 2018, 07:50:45 pm
http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True (http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True)

Is there really not a crossover at Dr Days Junction to get from the relief line to Feeder Bridge Junction?

Yes, there is!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: froome on November 19, 2018, 09:06:36 pm
Am I right in thinking that trains heading to Temple Meads from Filton Abbey Wood can now stop at both platforms 1 and 3, which are separated by the footbridge? If so, it will make it awkward deciding which one to wait at.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 19, 2018, 09:56:53 pm
You want MORE?

I'm now stuck in Huntingdon, so YES please!

Tenerife,  me. Of all the times I  could  have gone on holiday, and now I'm laid  out on a sunbed by the pool, with nothing to console me but sangria and  Mrs FT, N!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 19, 2018, 10:05:43 pm
Am I right in thinking that trains heading to Temple Meads from Filton Abbey Wood can now stop at both platforms 1 and 3, which are separated by the footbridge? If so, it will make it awkward deciding which one to wait at.

I hope there are some sort of electronic signs  to help the poor traveller.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: lympstone_commuter on November 19, 2018, 10:21:30 pm
The new layout now appears on traksy:

https://traksy.uk/live/M+25+PATCHWY+11 (https://traksy.uk/live/M+25+PATCHWY+11)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rower40 on November 19, 2018, 10:34:10 pm

Is there really not a crossover at Dr Days Junction to get from the relief line to Feeder Bridge Junction?
What you CAN'T do is to get from the Down Filton Main (the new bit) to St Philips Marsh Depot.  The Rhubarb curve is bidirectional, and to get to St Philips Marsh a train has to travel on the right-hand track.  (I can't remember which is up and which is down at the moment - not got my drawings in front of me - and anyway, directions have to change when going round one side of a triangle). Anyhow, there's no route to get from the down Filton Main to the right-hand track.  So any ECS trains for the depot will have to use the Down Filton Relief.  That'll catch an unwary signaller out.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 20, 2018, 07:47:47 am
Had a browse at both Trackit and Tracksy but to my scrutiny neither is correct.

Trackit does not show the link from Parkway platform 1 to the down Filton curve but does show this line as if it were the headshunt from Stoke Gifford yard.

Traksy shows the Horfield Junction as if it were just a straight double junction whereas photos posted on this thread show the junction as more of a ladder junction, compare it to Narroways Junction on the same display.

Neither shows the exit from Stoke Gifford yard in the down direction as a double slip.

There maybe other omissions which I haven't spotted so am I being too nit picking ?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on November 20, 2018, 07:53:48 am
For ease of reference S&T's excellent diagrams can be found at posts #322 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg236581#msg236581) and #455  (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg248151#msg248151) (these are links)

Does this help


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 20, 2018, 08:08:01 am
Had a browse at both Trackit and Tracksy but to my scrutiny neither is correct.

Trackit does not show the link from Parkway platform 1 to the down Filton curve but does show this line as if it were the headshunt from Stoke Gifford yard.

Traksy shows the Horfield Junction as if it were just a straight double junction whereas photos posted on this thread show the junction as more of a ladder junction, compare it to Narroways Junction on the same display.

Neither shows the exit from Stoke Gifford yard in the down direction as a double slip.

There maybe other omissions which I haven't spotted so am I being too nit picking ?

I did consult the two S&T's excellent diagrams before posting to ensure accuracy in the above post.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: froome on November 20, 2018, 08:41:50 am
Am I right in thinking that trains heading to Temple Meads from Filton Abbey Wood can now stop at both platforms 1 and 3, which are separated by the footbridge? If so, it will make it awkward deciding which one to wait at.

I hope there are some sort of electronic signs  to help the poor traveller.


Of course there are, but this is actually a serious matter, not a facetious one. My partner, who is female, commutes back from Filton every day, often having to catch trains late in the evening. It is not the sort of place she wants to hang around alone in the dark, and has little protection from the elements, so if the train to Oldfield Park is late, she will catch the first train to Temple Meads. This was easy when they all arrived at the same platform, but now would involve making a last minute decision, when the train is approaching, to go over the footbridge to the other platform.

There is presumably no reason why just one platform cannot be used for all Temple Meads services. Few, possibly none, are going to be passing others en route.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 20, 2018, 09:11:33 am
Wouldn’t using one platform for all trains cause unnecessary congestion in the event of delays, reduce capacity and introduce unnecessary conflicting moves crossing trains over at Filton Junction?

There’s a reason why four tracks were relaid and that’s to maximise flexibility leading to a reduction in delays and allowing two more trains an hour (at least) to operate.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 20, 2018, 09:25:01 am
Wouldn’t using one platform for all trains cause unnecessary congestion in the event of delays, reduce capacity and introduce unnecessary conflicting moves crossing trains over at Filton Junction?

There’s a reason why four tracks were relaid and that’s to maximise flexibility leading to a reduction in delays and allowing two more trains an hour (at least) to operate.

Am I right in thinking that trains heading to Temple Meads from Filton Abbey Wood can now stop at both platforms 1 and 3, which are separated by the footbridge? If so, it will make it awkward deciding which one to wait at.
I hope there are some sort of electronic signs  to help the poor traveller.
Of course there are, but this is actually a serious matter, not a facetious one. ....

Logic is to have excellent dynamic signage on the bridge "Next train to Bristol Temple Meads will leave at [time] from [platform]" - which is something that's straightforward to do.  One hopes that as the timetable settles in, late changes to line will be negligible.

This reminds me of my youth - communing outbound from the suburban station of Petts Wood in south London which was on 4 tracks ... my regular train - the 07:39 to Orpington / change for the Sevenoaks express was scheduled on platform 4 but on a significant minority of days arrived on platform 2.   Made all the harder to catch because the change was un-announced and the train appeared from a sideline ("round the corner" in Filton terms?) and the change was only apparent a handful of seconds before it pulled in.

In those days, the rail industry took little care of this school traffic, or the contra-flows in the peak and it was very easy to miss;  the departure board at the gate line rarely warning of the change.   I was very fortunate that my Dad caught the 07:43 from platform 1 and would walk across to the 07:39 if it mis-platformed and hold the door open while I dashed across; alas, a unique solution I don't think you have at Filton?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 20, 2018, 10:26:18 am
Think I already mentioned that the Bristol Parkway Platform No.1 to Filton loop connection shown on my diagram doesn't get commissioned until xmas 2018/new year 2019.  After that it will be possible for local stopping trains from the Bristol Parkway direction to use Filton Abbey Wood Platform No.2 which is the opposite side of the island platform to Platform No.3 used by local stopping trains from the Pilning direction.  I would assume (!) thats how the timetable would work, so only need to wait on the Island platform for a Bristol TM service.  If not then a lot of wasted infrastructure has ben installed.....


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 20, 2018, 10:30:57 am
So which services will use Platform 1?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 20, 2018, 10:42:48 am
So which services will use Platform 1?

Trains that don't need to stop at Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill (I would assume).  The new timetable hasn't been published yet so we will have to wait and see, I'm not a timetable planner so can only speak with confidence on the infrastructure elements.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 20, 2018, 10:49:10 am
I was assuming that P1 and P3 would be for all services to BRI depending whether they came from BPW or PWY like they have been since yesterday, with P2 available for bidirectional working in case of delays etc.  Happy to be wrong

They'll need to change the new signs tho from those Red Squirrel posted pics of the other day, as they indicate P2 for all trains north via BPW...

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13113.msg251924#msg251924


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 20, 2018, 10:50:55 am
So which services will use Platform 1?

Trains that don't need to stop at Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill (I would assume).  The new timetable hasn't been published yet so we will have to wait and see, I'm not a timetable planner so can only speak with confidence on the infrastructure elements.
That's what I'd assumed too. But surely they'll be going to Temple Meads, which leaves Froome's partner with the same platform dilemma.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 20, 2018, 10:52:12 am
Thats correct.  There are no crossovers to get you from Filton Abbey Wood Platform No.4 to Bristol Parkway (referring to the posted diagrams).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 20, 2018, 10:56:43 am
Thats correct.  There are no crossovers to get you from Filton Abbey Wood Platform No.4 to Bristol Parkway (referring to the posted diagrams).

Yeah sorry I meant they'd need to change the new P2 sign to also indicate trains to BRI if they were running from P2 along with P1 & P3, rather than just northbound via BPW as it now says (which is the only path to BPW like you said)

Otherwise it could cause even more confusion with 3 platforms to choose from for BRI


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 20, 2018, 11:14:44 am
Think I forgot to mention also that trains from Bristol Parkway will continue to be able to reverse back to Bristol Parkway in Filton Abbey Wood Platform No.1 (as previously).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 20, 2018, 11:16:18 am
So which services will use Platform 1?

Trains that don't need to stop at Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill (I would assume).  The new timetable hasn't been published yet so we will have to wait and see, I'm not a timetable planner so can only speak with confidence on the infrastructure elements.

I don't follow that. Platforms 1 and 2 can connect to any of the four lines to the south at Horfield Junction, in any legal direction, with one exception (P2 to the Down Fast). The same applies to the north for the four lines in the two routes, but with the additional crossover there is no exception. That crossover isn't new, so why does it need to be commissioned now - has it been taken out of use awaiting new signals?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 20, 2018, 12:18:49 pm
Am I right in assuming Signal no. BL1572 On the BPW end of plat 1. is still there, when last seen it had a pos 1 and 2 Junction Inds on.


Glad I did not go to Bristol yesterday as it turned out my train back to Gloucester was over 30mins late. It then forms the 16:40 to Weymouth which left Gloucester at 17:13.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: yanti on November 20, 2018, 10:12:41 pm
http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True (http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True)

This is great. Could someone please explain the significance of the train colours and numbers.  :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 21, 2018, 12:16:15 am
http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True (http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True)

This is great. Could someone please explain the significance of the train colours and numbers.  :)


There is a better site for these track diagrams, freightliner.net, but that is a pay to view site which a mate of mine showed me today but that showed some junctions as diamond crossing junctions and not as they are, a ladder junction.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: DaveHarries on November 21, 2018, 01:06:20 am
It seems as if Filton Abbey Wood now has 2 platforms with bi-directional signalling.

While watching the live map at Bristol Temple Meads this morning I noticed 2U12 (0925 St. James Park - Cardiff Central, which left Bristol Temple Meads at 1121hrs) use Platform 2 (not Platform 3 as booked) then cross over to the Newport-bound lines.

2U12 is booked for the Fast lines all the way to Filton Abbey Wood, rather than the relief lines, so clearly Platform 2 at Filton Abbey Wood, once usable only by trains to Bristol Parkway, can now be used for Cardiff-bound trains also. A good idea which should partly remove the need for bus replacement services between Bristol and Severn Tunnel Junction / Newport when works are taking place on Filton Bank because the trains for South Wales can use the neighbouring tracks if they are open.

Dave


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 21, 2018, 05:58:40 am
http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True (http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT/Forms/Map.aspx?MapID=1&AutoRefresh=True)

This is great. Could someone please explain the significance of the train colours and numbers.  :)

Educated guess / typically on such maps, colour tells you whether a train is on time.   White - not yet running, green is on time or nearly so so through to red being sadly late.  Codes like 2Y04 are train running codes ... these are mulched into 4 characters to hide the train where it's a freight.   


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 21, 2018, 08:01:44 am
While watching the live map at Bristol Temple Meads this morning...

It’s a shame that official mapping program, known as TMIS, isn’t available to the public as it is well laid out and up-to-date.  Not wanting to take anything away from the guys and girls that run the licenced but unofficial sites mind you.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 21, 2018, 08:24:10 am
Welcome  to  the  Coffee  Shop,  yanti!

The  first  character is probably the most useful to  use. "1" shows a fast train, such as  a HST  or  IET working an intercity route. "2" signifies  a slower train, for example  a Portsmouth to Cardiff stopper. "5" tells us that the train is empty  coaching stock. They are  the most  commonly found in these parts. The letter immediately after signifies the region in which  the  train's ultimate  destination lies, for long-distance routes covering more than one region, and the final two make the code  complete to  describe  a service uniquely. Well ,  not quite, because the same  code can be in use for more than one train in  different parts of the country. The  code provides  a reference  for signallers, TOCs, and the very  useful websites suck as TrackIT! to use for our benefit.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 21, 2018, 08:51:49 am
This article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_reporting_number) expands on Four Track, Now!'s explanation, though perhaps not as much as you might have hoped.

Just by way of an example, trains on the Severn Beach line start at 2K00, the 05.14 from Temple Meads to Avonmouth, and in general terms the code rises through the day (so as I type this 2K09, the 08.36 from Avonmouth, has just departed on its way to Temple Meads). However 'K' is also used as a route indicator by Scotrail, and whilst you (or indeed signallers) are unlikely to confuse a train on the Fife Inner Circle for the Severn Riviera Express, it is worth recognising that these codes are not unique.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on November 21, 2018, 09:09:31 am
Another good site for real time maps is ;-

www.sussextrains.co.uk

which is a paid for site but does offer a 'daily free map' service of which todays is Didcot to Maidenhead with the North Downs line to Dorking


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 21, 2018, 09:11:03 am
I think I'll call it "Game Over".


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 21, 2018, 09:27:49 am
I think I'll call it "Game Over".

I would say not so much "Gave Over" as "Game Won" - and that's a famous win for everyone.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 21, 2018, 09:43:30 am
Hmm... don't get me wrong, 'Tony' is a decent-enough name, but it doesn't have quite the same ring as 'Remodel Bristol East Junction, Now!'...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 21, 2018, 09:48:57 am
Three Tracks (in the old Midland Shed), Now!  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 21, 2018, 09:50:18 am
But TFFTN makes a nice set of initials. Maybe "Now Tony (Formerly Four Track, Now!)" to make the initials a palindrome, NTFFTN.  ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 21, 2018, 09:51:57 am
I would have gone for EBN - Electrify Bristol Now!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 21, 2018, 10:24:30 am
Three Tracks (in the old Midland Shed), Now!  ;)

Three? Are you planning for a releasing road?

Oh, of course; we'll need to cater for all those kettles they insist on in today's modern railway..! :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 21, 2018, 10:27:33 am
Three Tracks (in the old Midland Shed), Now!  ;)

Three? Are you planning for a releasing road?

Oh, of course; we'll need to cater for all those kettles they insist on in today's modern railway..! :)


Exactly!  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 21, 2018, 10:58:30 am
I think I'll call it "Game Over".

Or...  you could go back to your original user name...  bear with me here!

To get Bristol electrified, they want to remodel Bristol East Junction, which would also involve
Laying new tracks into the Midland Shed, which would also involve
Removing Bristol Panel Box, which would also involve
Transferring signalling from Bristol South to Cogload junction to TVSC or elsewhere, which would also involve
Additional signalling to be introduced to allow more stopping services at BMT & PSN and the re-opened Portishead line, which would also involve
Four Tracks, Now! to be reintroduced from Bristol West Junction to Parson Street Junction!

Go on, you know you want to!  ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 21, 2018, 11:05:34 am
It seems as if Filton Abbey Wood now has 2 platforms with bi-directional signalling.

While watching the live map at Bristol Temple Meads this morning I noticed 2U12 (0925 St. James Park - Cardiff Central, which left Bristol Temple Meads at 1121hrs) use Platform 2 (not Platform 3 as booked) then cross over to the Newport-bound lines.

2U12 is booked for the Fast lines all the way to Filton Abbey Wood, rather than the relief lines, so clearly Platform 2 at Filton Abbey Wood, once usable only by trains to Bristol Parkway, can now be used for Cardiff-bound trains also. A good idea which should partly remove the need for bus replacement services between Bristol and Severn Tunnel Junction / Newport when works are taking place on Filton Bank because the trains for South Wales can use the neighbouring tracks if they are open.

Dave

I'm surprised that you're surprised! A train on the Up Filton Main can only go via FIT P2, there are no points offering any other choice*. SandTE's pictures show P2 as bidirectional, and from what he has said P1 is signalled for trains to leave in the Up direction after reversing but not to enter from the Up Filton Main.

When you pointed out previously that the WTT was still showing paths and platforms for the old track arrangement, I didn't twig that would include ones that are now physically impossible. But they are all still there - most northbound trains for south Wales are shown using P3, and none using P4. OK, one can understand that if it makes sense not to update the WTT (leaving aside why that might be). But what flummoxes me a bit is that RTT and OTT both show yesterday's 2U12 as actually using P3 (i.e. in bold or as "as booked").

*Strictly there is a crossover to P1, not signalled as noted above, and in any case why would you want to if you're going to south Wales?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 21, 2018, 11:58:43 am
Hmm... don't get me wrong, 'Tony' is a decent-enough name, but it doesn't have quite the same ring as 'Remodel Bristol East Junction, Now!'...

I thought the shutdown over Christmas was to remodel the layout a bit.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 21, 2018, 02:04:08 pm
Hmm... don't get me wrong, 'Tony' is a decent-enough name, but it doesn't have quite the same ring as 'Remodel Bristol East Junction, Now!'...

Sounds to me  more like the alleged  rallying call of the former Prime Minister Sir John Major.

"What do we want?"
"Gradual change!"
"When do we want it?"
"In due course!"


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on November 21, 2018, 02:09:02 pm
The Peas are nice tonight Norma !..


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 21, 2018, 07:15:40 pm
The Peas are nice tonight Norma !..


Are they tinned ones?.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 21, 2018, 08:37:05 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHvUarwTlck - in case anyone doesn't know what they're on about!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: DaveHarries on November 21, 2018, 11:53:38 pm
I'm surprised that you're surprised! A train on the Up Filton Main can only go via FIT P2, there are no points offering any other choice*. SandTE's pictures show P2 as bidirectional, and from what he has said P1 is signalled for trains to leave in the Up direction after reversing but not to enter from the Up Filton Main.

When you pointed out previously that the WTT was still showing paths and platforms for the old track arrangement, I didn't twig that would include ones that are now physically impossible. But they are all still there - most northbound trains for south Wales are shown using P3, and none using P4. OK, one can understand that if it makes sense not to update the WTT (leaving aside why that might be). But what flummoxes me a bit is that RTT and OTT both show yesterday's 2U12 as actually using P3 (i.e. in bold or as "as booked").

*Strictly there is a crossover to P1, not signalled as noted above, and in any case why would you want to if you're going to south Wales?
I am surprised because, although I knew that P3 would no longer be used for Cardiff-bound trains I thought that the new P4 was to replace that so I hadn't been expecting P2 to be facilitated for Cardiff services too.

Dave


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Louis94 on November 22, 2018, 10:05:16 am
When you pointed out previously that the WTT was still showing paths and platforms for the old track arrangement, I didn't twig that would include ones that are now physically impossible. But they are all still there - most northbound trains for south Wales are shown using P3, and none using P4. OK, one can understand that if it makes sense not to update the WTT (leaving aside why that might be). But what flummoxes me a bit is that RTT and OTT both show yesterday's 2U12 as actually using P3 (i.e. in bold or as "as booked").

At present whenever a train uses Platform 2 to go towards Cardiff, the signals it steps through are the same as what would be stepped through for Platform 3 previously. This results in incorrect reporting that the train is using Platform 3. It looks like Network Rail need to update their data (SMART) and the background data just needs a slight tweak on RTT to remove this incorrect platform report.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 22, 2018, 10:43:44 am
When you pointed out previously that the WTT was still showing paths and platforms for the old track arrangement, I didn't twig that would include ones that are now physically impossible. But they are all still there - most northbound trains for south Wales are shown using P3, and none using P4. OK, one can understand that if it makes sense not to update the WTT (leaving aside why that might be). But what flummoxes me a bit is that RTT and OTT both show yesterday's 2U12 as actually using P3 (i.e. in bold or as "as booked").

At present whenever a train uses Platform 2 to go towards Cardiff, the signals it steps through are the same as what would be stepped through for Platform 3 previously. This results in incorrect reporting that the train is using Platform 3. It looks like Network Rail need to update their data (SMART) and the background data just needs a slight tweak on RTT to remove this incorrect platform report.

Only a few trains show that (including some goods), but looking closer I can see that all the ones reported as using P4 also used the reliefs (and so get shown on RTT with a platform number). That's what I was saying in my earlier post - that in order to get enough use out of P3&4 at FIT, most trains to/from Wales have to use the reliefs even if not stopping.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 22, 2018, 10:45:44 am

I am surprised because, although I knew that P3 would no longer be used for Cardiff-bound trains I thought that the new P4 was to replace that so I hadn't been expecting P2 to be facilitated for Cardiff services too.

Dave

I'm wondering if they've still been overriding ARS this week looking at some of the train movements, which is why some Cardiff bound trains have been run into P2 instead of P4

There's been several instances of PMH-CDF / TAU-CDF services being run up the main lines to avoid delayed services on the reliefs, the same as there's been delayed XC services being run into P1 at the last minute at BPW to prevent holding up on-time PAD services, and then run into P2 at all other times if they're on time / not holding up other services


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: WelshBluebird on November 22, 2018, 11:22:33 am
Already saw a slight benefit this morning with the Severn Beach line train I was on running 5 minutes late towards Temple Meads. In the past this would have held up the Great Malvern to Weymouth train that normally runs 7 or so minutes behind, but is usually delayed if that Severn Beach train is running late. Today it used the new main's, meaning it arrived into Temple Meads just after I did (rather than 5 minutes or so later), and so my connection was a nice walk over from P1 to P7, onto the train, then leaving a minute later, no waits needed! Of course, I know at some point (probably sooner rather than later!) this will inconvenience rather than help me as I can no longer rely on the Weymouth service always being behind us as long as we hit Narroways first, but it is nice to see the reliability improvements so obviously this soon.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 22, 2018, 11:29:36 am
It seems to me that delays are still very much a thing on the Severn Beach line... staring at TrackIt, many of these seem to originate at Bristol East...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 22, 2018, 11:39:39 am
It seems to me that delays are still very much a thing on the Severn Beach line... staring at TrackIt, many of these seem to originate at Bristol East...

I noticed a lot of Beach line delays yesterday on TrackIt too

One of the biggest problems then seemed to be BRI bound services waiting at CFN for the AVN / SVB services to arrive so they could crossover before the single line stretch to Narroways

In one case then, and again this morning, the BRI bound service departed to prevent it running any later leaving the CFN bound service stuck at SRD for ages til the single line was cleared (and another PMH-CDF service was redirected up the main line)

Am guessing before that there's no way they'd allow that to happen and they'd hold the other train at CFN to clear the Up lines, but now with the opportunity to bypass trains held at LWH & SRD they've started doing that?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 22, 2018, 11:42:50 am
It seems to me that delays are still very much a thing on the Severn Beach line... staring at TrackIt, many of these seem to originate at Bristol East...

I think the regulation problems have now shifted to Bristol East Junction (well aren't we supprised).  Its not the best of layouts and needs to be the next target for rearrangement (think it was going to happen pre-electrification; so who knows when now ::)).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 22, 2018, 11:52:21 am
I'm surprised that you're surprised! A train on the Up Filton Main can only go via FIT P2, there are no points offering any other choice*. SandTE's pictures show P2 as bidirectional, and from what he has said P1 is signalled for trains to leave in the Up direction after reversing but not to enter from the Up Filton Main.

When you pointed out previously that the WTT was still showing paths and platforms for the old track arrangement, I didn't twig that would include ones that are now physically impossible. But they are all still there - most northbound trains for south Wales are shown using P3, and none using P4. OK, one can understand that if it makes sense not to update the WTT (leaving aside why that might be). But what flummoxes me a bit is that RTT and OTT both show yesterday's 2U12 as actually using P3 (i.e. in bold or as "as booked").

*Strictly there is a crossover to P1, not signalled as noted above, and in any case why would you want to if you're going to south Wales?
I am surprised because, although I knew that P3 would no longer be used for Cardiff-bound trains I thought that the new P4 was to replace that so I hadn't been expecting P2 to be facilitated for Cardiff services too.

Dave


I Thought there was a position 1 Junction Indicator just before platform 2 to allow trains into p2 then on to Cardiff. I suppose the platform 2 route for Wales trains is incase one breaks down on the relief.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 22, 2018, 11:59:20 am
I think the regulation problems have now shifted to Bristol East Junction (well aren't we supprised).  Its not the best of layouts and needs to be the next target for rearrangement (think it was going to happen pre-electrification; so who knows when now ::)).

As with everything, you remove one bottleneck and it highlights another...  I can see the single line between Narroways and CFN also becoming an issue as time goes on, especially as one of the benefits of four tracking was to enable more stopping services at both SRD and LWH


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: WelshBluebird on November 22, 2018, 12:10:35 pm
Are there any plans to add platforms to the new main lines at Stapleton Road and Lawrence hill / is there enough room with the new track layout to do so in the future if it becomes necessary / desired?

Also totally agree about the single track on the Beach line. It is already a problem anyway, but hopefully with removing one source of delays and adding the ability to keep units at  Stapleton Road or Lawrence hill whilst they wait for a Bristol bound train to pass the junction we have a little wiggle room.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 22, 2018, 01:19:10 pm
...

In one case then, and again this morning, the BRI bound service departed to prevent it running any later leaving the CFN bound service stuck at SRD for ages til the single line was cleared (and another PMH-CDF service was redirected up the main line)

Am guessing before that there's no way they'd allow that to happen and they'd hold the other train at CFN to clear the Up lines, but now with the opportunity to bypass trains held at LWH & SRD they've started doing that?

That does sound likely, doesn't it? For BRI-bound passengers that would be seen as an advantage of the new arrangement; I wonder what the time-penalty was for the CFN-bound passengers?

Are there any plans to add platforms to the new main lines at Stapleton Road and Lawrence hill / is there enough room with the new track layout to do so in the future if it becomes necessary / desired?


No. And although the four-tracking project made passive provision for a four-platform station at Ashley Down, the costings and developed scheme for this are for a two-platform station here too.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 22, 2018, 01:46:53 pm
That does sound likely, doesn't it? For BRI-bound passengers that would be seen as an advantage of the new arrangement; I wonder what the time-penalty was for the CFN-bound passengers?

It's a benefit for now with the existing timetable, but with the desire to get more stopping services that would definitely become an issue

I'm assuming that either the half hourly departures from PWY on the CDF-TAU / CDF-PMH harbour will be amended at some point in the future to stop at LWH & SRD, along with the new Ashley Hill station when it opens

Plus the hourly BPW-WSM which calls at both stations on it's return from WSM but not on the way there

At the moment there's no daytime trains at all between PWY & LWH/SRD, and one an hour (sometimes once every two hours) from BPW

Don't get me wrong, it's been really interesting following all the paths the last couple of days and seeing how the new main lines have allowed the XC / Freight & some CDF services to be run up these freeing up the reliefs, but a lot more thought will be needed to accomodate all of the planned additional local services without adding extra delays on existing ones


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 22, 2018, 01:58:08 pm
Meanwhile, at Filton Abbey Wood: Nice day for taking a couple of pics, thought I.

First one shows a Cardiff-bound GWR service on Platform 4, whilst an inbound Manchester-Temple Meads Cross Country service passes through;
Second shows a Cardiff-Portsmouth Harbour train pulling in to Platform 3;
Third is looking south off the bridge into the low hazy sun.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 22, 2018, 02:05:40 pm
Excellent pics, thanks for those!  Great to see it all completed now...  and with the existing platforms extended and re-surfaced looks more like the major station it's turning into  :)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7755 on November 22, 2018, 04:23:55 pm
Excellent pics, thanks for those!  Great to see it all completed now...  and with the existing platforms extended and re-surfaced looks more like the major station it's turning into  :)
Overall grade 1 listed roof, Now!    ;D

Paul


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 22, 2018, 06:39:55 pm
...the major station it's turning into

It does look like an important suburban station, arguably the only one in the Greater Bristol area.

It's perhaps not surprising that it doesn't greatly cater for motorists, given its proximity to Parkway - a small car park and a kiss-and-ride loop is all there is - but it also, to my mind, offers surprisingly restricted pedestrian access.

This is particularly true from the west; you might think there would be good direct access to Filton Avenue but it's actually rather a long way round via Nutfield Grove, and not particularly well-signposted. Nutfield Grove is midway between bus stops, so there is no easy interchange with local buses. It looks like there could have been an opportunity to open up access from Wallscourt Road South during the expansion work, which would have made it much more accessible to people to the south-west of the station, but I can see no plans to do this. When I went there today to take photos, I drove - the first time I've got there that way, and it was very apparent that parking nearby is a challenge; I eventually found a space on Filton Avenue nearly 500m away.

To the east, the station has as you might expect very good access to the eponymous MOD establishment. The size of this site however means that it obstructs access to other potential destinations such as UWE.

Filton Abbey Wood's usage figure for 2016/7 was 1.065 million, for a station with frequent direct trains to a wide variety of destinations. Clifton Down had 0.764 million in the same period, with its infrequent service to far fewer destinations. Really, FIT ought to be working harder, and I suspect that its accessibility might be a big part of the problem.






Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 22, 2018, 07:43:07 pm
Has anyone noticed from those last pics, the lighting columns seem shorter on plat 4, also the lanterns used are different.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: justdarkbeer on November 22, 2018, 07:44:45 pm
Yes, would hope they have fitted LED lamp heads.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 22, 2018, 08:11:03 pm
Yes, would hope they have fitted LED lamp heads.


Probably now are. Still have old sodium ones in Stroud.


Also I had seen on Points West News that Bristol Temple Meads is to undergo another total rewire. The station is now in a mess now that a lot of the old conduit and trunking is redundant due to the signalling and new platform screens 6 years ago. Was also told by a NR elecrician that it was overloaded. I can remember when it was last done, back in 1984.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 22, 2018, 08:16:00 pm
...the major station it's turning into

It does look like an important suburban station, arguably the only one in the Greater Bristol area.
Depends how you think of Parkway...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 22, 2018, 09:24:20 pm
Whenever I have had a look at Abbey Wood during construction I've mainly got there on the 73 to the bus stop on Filton Avenue just found the corner from Chris-Emma Way, about a 5 minute brisk stroll if you know the way. I gather there might be an occasional bus service that goes to the small parking space at the end of the way but I'm not at all sure it could get there when the construction works were underway.
There's a rather obscure footpath access from there to Nutfield Grove that joins Filton Avenue but that is not signposted from memory.
Red Squirrel may have a point about accessibility (and signposting, if you ask me).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 22, 2018, 09:28:43 pm
...the major station it's turning into

It does look like an important suburban station, arguably the only one in the Greater Bristol area.
Depends how you think of Parkway...

Access is a major issue for it.  As Red Squirrel said trying to access it by car is virtually impossible, which is the main reason I never got around to taking any pics from the station itself during the blockade.  Was much easier access via Kipling Road / Wallscourt Rd South and onto the footbridge just to the south of the station, which again as RS mentioned would offer much better pedestrian access from Filton Avenue itself had they put in an additional entrance / exit footpath there.  But even then it involved some pretty detailed map reading to make sure I knew exactly where to find access to the footpath itself

It's basically now turned into an interchange station which is what i've used it for in the past.  Timing it right I can park up at BPW, get the first stopping train to FIT, and then pick up one of the CDF-TAU / CDF-PMH stopping services to get to where I wanted to go

I'm guessing that was one of it's greatest uses when it was the original Filton Junction station sited north of Station Rd bridge, and of course there was no Parkway station back then either, well not when all 4 platforms of Filton Junction were still in use anyway!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 22, 2018, 10:51:38 pm
Depends how you think of Parkway...

Indeed; I did consider that! It is a conundrum; Parkway is Temple Meads' northern cousin whereas Filton Abbey Wood looks more like a suburban station - except that you can get direct trains to Brighton and Great Malvern from Abbey Wood...

Has anyone noticed from those last pics, the lighting columns seem shorter on plat 4, also the lanterns used are different.

The sharper-eyed among you may also have noticed that the running-in boards on P4 use GWR's new less-legible font...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 23, 2018, 09:18:59 am
The sharper-eyed among you may also have noticed that the running-in boards on P4 use GWR's new less-legible font...

Yes I noticed that straight away.  Was one of the first things I noticed when they opened the new P1 at BPW and saw the new signs there, not matching any of the others.  I was actually waiting to see if they'd introduce the same ones at FIT for the new P4, and of course they have!

I don't get it...  unless you're changing all of the platform numbers to match, why just change one?  It may only be a small detail but it sticks out like a sore thumb


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 23, 2018, 10:20:40 am
Don't you just love how the press latch onto things...  BBC news this morning;

"Commuters around the West's rail network faced a double whammy of disruption this morning.

A broken down train between Temple Meads and Parkway blocked lines for several hours leading to rush hour delays.

And a signalling fault between the Bristol station and Weston-super-Mare meant that all tracks were blocked west of the station for some time.

Meanwhile, Network Rail say the completed work around Bristol Parkway has made travel better"


Has made travel better?  Does anyone know which unit failed and if trains were able to run up the other lines now we have four?  If it was one of the four lines and other trains were able to be diverted around it, would have been much more productive to say that thanks to the recent works, whereas the lines would have been completely blocked before we were still able to keep other trains running during this morning's disruption

But that's what you get from the press


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 23, 2018, 10:31:46 am
It was an 1800+ Tonne freight train that stalled across the new Horfield Junction moving from the Up Relief to the Up Main, so really stitched everything up.  When it got moved by a rescue loco things got back to running again quite quickly (although obviously heavy delays), and the four tracking came into good use.

The other failure was a total signalling failure in the Worle to Nailsea area.  Took some time to solve.  Many XC/GWR diversions via Westbury and/or Swindon due to both issues being at the same time.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 23, 2018, 10:55:38 am
Ouch!!!  Still at least the four tracking did help to get things back on track (pun intended!) a lot quicker than it would have done previously


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 23, 2018, 11:44:43 am
What happened to this site just now, could not load forum, coming up oops page not found.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 23, 2018, 12:01:50 pm
What happened to this site just now, could not load forum, coming up oops page not found.

The posting database was offline from 11:37 to 11:39, and the web server as well for a shorter period. The post at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19765.msg250288#msg250288 and the rest of that thread give you some background; I was re-synced at 11:37 as I was concerned that the backup script wasn't generating backups I could use in the event of a significant system failure.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 23, 2018, 12:06:32 pm
What happened to this site just now, could not load forum, coming up oops page not found.

The posting database was offline from 11:37 to 11:39, and the web server as well for a shorter period. The post at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19765.msg250288#msg250288 and the rest of that thread give you some background; I was re-synced at 11:37 as I was concerned that the backup script wasn't generating backups I could use in the event of a significant system failure.

Thanks for that.


Where is everyone now, no posts on Filton Bank.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 24, 2018, 06:10:54 pm
Wandered up to have a look this afternoon. A couple of ballast trains, loaders, other yellow trains, orange jackets, all hard at work between the Horfield footbridge and Abbey Wood. As for FAW station, of course it's great to have four platforms, but <quibble alert> I do agree that the mixture of fonts on one station doesn't look the best. Nothing wrong with either font, nothing really wrong with a mixture at one station where it's large enough (works fine at Temple Meads) but having them visible at the same time doesn't look so good. Also, I dislike the hooped fence used on the Platform 4. It looks far too garden centre. But those are petty quibbles.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 25, 2018, 11:28:39 am
Filton Bank is closed today,After looking on opentraintimes.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 25, 2018, 11:30:54 am
Filton Bank is closed today,After looking on opentraintimes.

Preplanned.

Most banks are closed on Sundays  ;D ;D - thank goodness this one is usually open.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 25, 2018, 11:39:40 am
Nothing wrong with either font...

...except that it has been shown that serif fonts are less legible that sans serif. But we've had that discussion elsewhere on this forum: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18572.msg218557#msg218557

Up to a point I'm happy that they've not wasted money putting up the less-legible GWR-style running-in boards on the other platforms when the existing ones are better; maybe they can put the money they saved towards a passing loop between Montpelier and Narroways. ;)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 25, 2018, 01:47:04 pm
Afternoon everyone,

First time post here. It's really warms my heart to see the UFM and DFM lines reinstated from Lockleaze, and of course the former Up and Down Reliefs from Lockleaze north.

I travelled over what was then the DFM on its' last day of use, back in February 1984.
Here's my shot of the old B152 signal on that final evening. Note that it had three Feathers, compared to the new version.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/4938596167/in/photolist-8wpAzM (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/4938596167/in/photolist-8wpAzM)

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.


According to a plan I just found, Signal B252 Had a pos 1 - 2 JI on, And B152 Had pos 1 and 4 Indicators on, plus a stencil indicator with a letter D for dr days siding. Also the signal from the curve B431 also had a pos 1 indicator, very interesting isn't it.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on November 25, 2018, 01:52:42 pm
Afternoon everyone,

First time post here. It's really warms my heart to see the UFM and DFM lines reinstated from Lockleaze, and of course the former Up and Down Reliefs from Lockleaze north.

I travelled over what was then the DFM on its' last day of use, back in February 1984.
Here's my shot of the old B152 signal on that final evening. Note that it had three Feathers, compared to the new version.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/4938596167/in/photolist-8wpAzM (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/4938596167/in/photolist-8wpAzM)

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.


According to a plan I just found, Signal B252 Had a pos 1 - 2 JI on, And B152 Had pos 1 and 4 Indicators on, plus a stencil indicator with a letter D for dr days siding. Also the signal from the curve B431 also had a pos 1 indicator, very interesting isn't it.

B152 is visible in this shot of mine, when track recovery was underway - https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/12089707425/in/photolist-nVyXbN-nvb1wg-k2jpgF-k2k5Ce-jqmSwN-jqjUPt-gH6a8Y-gtu9ZG-ej2Zsb-edC53B-ed5Ebo-eaHEdc-eawcdE-cgYNyd-cfGKbU-bUksyP-aAeYFS-6QXbpB-6R2ech-Cy62xZ-kUtp5V-CyFZC3-kUxXaX-ntAtFi (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/12089707425/in/photolist-nVyXbN-nvb1wg-k2jpgF-k2k5Ce-jqmSwN-jqjUPt-gH6a8Y-gtu9ZG-ej2Zsb-edC53B-ed5Ebo-eaHEdc-eawcdE-cgYNyd-cfGKbU-bUksyP-aAeYFS-6QXbpB-6R2ech-Cy62xZ-kUtp5V-CyFZC3-kUxXaX-ntAtFi)

Here's B252 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/14152453915/in/photolist-nyB2u8-nyiezT-nh69S3-nh5NMA-nyjpPj-nyeMZv-nh1X2C-nydaPX-nAgFjT-nfZLPG-nxtwib-nx8rNs-nfTFDf-nyYkKT-nfGmbg-nezDEK-nezmo3-nexZFc-nexFjT-nuKE1F-nsXn4p-nuHLZe-nsZ2JN-nbs3ys-njKgBb-njKuzK-njz7Yu-niJYqL-kZHZDK-kZHsvp-kWAV57-kWzZFc-kRRfhs-kzyrwv-nhEb6C-njGgm9-nmq3jB-njmGnQ-ngJAjA-nkvVne-ngDzX3-nkek22-ndp1XP-ndmfpg-ndmfwv-86pgVN-nbiQRY-86pgRY-86m6Uz-kWzZwK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/14152453915/in/photolist-nyB2u8-nyiezT-nh69S3-nh5NMA-nyjpPj-nyeMZv-nh1X2C-nydaPX-nAgFjT-nfZLPG-nxtwib-nx8rNs-nfTFDf-nyYkKT-nfGmbg-nezDEK-nezmo3-nexZFc-nexFjT-nuKE1F-nsXn4p-nuHLZe-nsZ2JN-nbs3ys-njKgBb-njKuzK-njz7Yu-niJYqL-kZHZDK-kZHsvp-kWAV57-kWzZFc-kRRfhs-kzyrwv-nhEb6C-njGgm9-nmq3jB-njmGnQ-ngJAjA-nkvVne-ngDzX3-nkek22-ndp1XP-ndmfpg-ndmfwv-86pgVN-nbiQRY-86pgRY-86m6Uz-kWzZwK)

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 25, 2018, 02:00:38 pm
Seems like they had Added these in later years, My plan shows the original layout from 1970, when Bristol Panel was first installed. They must of done it when North Somerset Junction was made bi-directional in 1978.

Was that signal out when you took the picture.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bristolian on November 25, 2018, 02:12:15 pm
Seems like they had Added these in later years, My plan shows the original layout from 1970, when Bristol Panel was first installed. They must of done it when North Somerset Junction was made bi-directional in 1978.

Was that signal out when you took the picture.


B152 was out.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 25, 2018, 02:13:54 pm
Seems like they had Added these in later years, My plan shows the original layout from 1970, when Bristol Panel was first installed. They must of done it when North Somerset Junction was made bi-directional in 1978.

Was that signal out when you took the picture.


B152 was out.


But did not have a white cross over it.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 25, 2018, 03:15:36 pm
Don't know you can say the signal is out when you can only see the top two aspects of four....


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 25, 2018, 04:09:28 pm
Don't know you can say the signal is out when you can only see the top two aspects of four....

According to the post it was.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 25, 2018, 05:31:38 pm
Signals that are disconnected temporarily during engineering work possessions don't have 'white crosses' put on them and if the affected line is permanently put out of use, it wouldn't have one fitted either.  The only exception to the latter case is if the signal could be mis-read from an adjacent parallel line.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 25, 2018, 07:41:22 pm
Signals that are disconnected temporarily during engineering work possessions don't have 'white crosses' put on them and if the affected line is permanently put out of use, it wouldn't have one fitted either.  The only exception to the latter case is if the signal could be mis-read from an adjacent parallel line.

I Noticed that on some of the pictures on here of the Filton Bank works that some new signals put up were out and not covered also. So I am right in thinking that is why as all lines were closed.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on November 25, 2018, 11:54:02 pm

Where is everyone now, no posts on Filton Bank.

Tenerife  as it happens.  I haven't been away for  ages.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 26, 2018, 11:59:37 am

Where is everyone now, no posts on Filton Bank.

Tenerife  as it happens.  I haven't been away for  ages.

Alright for some.? Stuck in cold Gloucester with the Heating on.


Should BL1573 also have a pos 1, Indicator on as well,seems to be missing.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 27, 2018, 05:04:13 pm

Where is everyone now, no posts on Filton Bank.

Tenerife  as it happens.  I haven't been away for  ages.

Alright for some.? Stuck in cold Gloucester with the Heating on.

Should BL1573 also have a pos 1, Indicator on as well, seems to be missing.

Why?  There is only a straight route from BL1573 signal.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 27, 2018, 05:17:38 pm

Where is everyone now, no posts on Filton Bank.

Tenerife  as it happens.  I haven't been away for  ages.

Alright for some.? Stuck in cold Gloucester with the Heating on.

Should BL1573 also have a pos 1, Indicator on as well, seems to be missing.

Why?  There is only a straight route from BL1573 signal.


I Thought from your map, there was a turnout to the Releif from the Main after a train leaving Filton.

NOTE: CHANGED PICTURE, GOT FED UP WITH THE OTHER ONE.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 27, 2018, 06:10:36 pm
The actual junction signal is the next one in advance, BL1581, and its fitted with a POSITION 4 Junction Indicator for the turnout movement.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 28, 2018, 08:30:31 am
One of the benefits of 4 platforms at Filton Abbey Wood - space for this sort of last minute amendment ...

Quote
Cancellations to services between Filton Abbey Wood and Bristol Parkway
Due to a points failure at Bristol Parkway some lines are blocked. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Train services between Filton Abbey Wood and Bristol Parkway may be cancelled or terminated at and started back from Filton Abbey Wood.
Last Updated:28/11/2018 07:47

.... better than turning at Temple Meads, I suppose!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 28, 2018, 08:49:41 am
.....the end of the day to fix a points failure.....must be more serious than just a simple failure.... ::)


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 28, 2018, 10:47:39 am
BPW seems to be running all trains thru P1 & P3, so trying to figure out which points have failed to take out both P2 & P4


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: brooklea on November 28, 2018, 12:04:13 pm
Cracked rail affecting the crossover between the Up and down lines at the west end of the station.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 28, 2018, 12:14:45 pm
Aha, that would do it, as that also affects the starting services from P4 crossing onto the down main.  Thankfully we now have P1 so at least thru services can keep running


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on November 28, 2018, 12:46:01 pm
Do rails crack spontaneously, or can the fatigure, wear and tear that leads to 'cracking' be detected before this failure?

So far this year we have had 4 long term closures, and umpteen weekend closures of these lines by Bristol Parkway. Could this have not been detected and fixed then?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 28, 2018, 06:48:45 pm
Do rails crack spontaneously, or can the fatigure, wear and tear that leads to 'cracking' be detected before this failure?

So far this year we have had 4 long term closures, and umpteen weekend closures of these lines by Bristol Parkway. Could this have not been detected and fixed then?

Mostly works on Filton Bank and plat 1, And overhead wires.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 29, 2018, 07:27:56 am
.....the end of the day to fix a points failure.....must be more serious than just a simple failure.... ::)

End of which day?

Quote
Cancellations to services between Filton Abbey Wood and Bristol Parkway
Due to a points failure at Bristol Parkway some lines are blocked. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Train services between Filton Abbey Wood and Bristol Parkway may be cancelled, delayed or terminated at and started back from Filton Abbey Wood.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 29, 2018, 08:50:43 am
Do rails crack spontaneously..?

I sense a rhetorical question! The answer is probably, as Winnie the Pooh might say, that some do and others don't; you never can tell with rails. Technology like the New Measurement Train (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhVdTXh5XoA&t=7s) can presumably detect 'pre-failure' states, but having detected such a state they may decide it needs to be fixed immediately (NR couldn't plead ignorance if an accident occurred between detection and repair) so you'd still have an unplanned closure, which to the travelling public looks the same as a failure.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 29, 2018, 01:41:00 pm
.....the end of the day to fix a points failure.....must be more serious than just a simple failure.... ::)

End of which day?

Guessing it must be a more complex fix as still only running trains thru P1 & P3 at BPW, and no BPW-WSM services running again today


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on November 29, 2018, 01:43:33 pm
Are trains actually moving between Filton Abbey Wood to|from Bristol Parkway at the moment?

I have heard several people say the line is not fixed, and GWR web site reports there are still faults with points and buses are available.

How long does it take to repair ponts?

Is this the same issue as yesterday?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: WelshBluebird on November 29, 2018, 02:04:47 pm
The service I was on this morning, the 8.50 Oldfield Park to Bristol Parkway, terminated at Filton I know that much.

But other than that, based on what NRE and RTT are saying, services that terminate at Parkway normally are actually terminating at Filton, but services up to Gloucester and Great Malvern are running through as normal. So probably just thinning out the services slightly to make up for the issue!

NRE does also say tickets being accepted on the 18, 72 and 73 buses, though no idea what bus the 18 is (First certainly don't run an 18 in Bristol), the 72 doesn't even go that near Filton or Parkway, so the 73 is the only really relevant one there.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on November 29, 2018, 02:33:08 pm
The faulty points have taken platforms 2 & 4 out of action

Luckily with the new platform 1 they can still run all westbound thru services using P1, and all eastbound thru services using P3

It's the terminating services (mostly BPW-WSM but also some peak direct BTH-BPW) they can't run as they involve a layover in P4 which would then block the thru services


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 29, 2018, 02:43:25 pm
...First certainly don't run an 18 in Bristol...

No. They did, but not any more. Think it went from Lyde Green to Avonmouth, others may know better...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 30, 2018, 06:38:39 pm
The faulty points have taken platforms 2 & 4 out of action

Luckily with the new platform 1 they can still run all westbound thru services using P1, and all eastbound thru services using P3

It's the terminating services (mostly BPW-WSM but also some peak direct BTH-BPW) they can't run as they involve a layover in P4 which would then block the thru services

Is Bristol Parkway back to normal now?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on December 01, 2018, 10:23:17 am
Hard to say as there's another planned weekend closure at the minute to finish the filton bank works

P4 was back in use yesterday for terminating trains tho


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 01, 2018, 10:55:30 am
... there's another planned weekend closure at the minute to finish the filton bank works

Utter chaos at Swindon today ... Add in a Cross Country Train mix, a failed train in the area (from Melksham we arrived in the Swindon area on the down line, then a 5+5 IET arrived and terminated!), and overcrowding of the Bath service due - I suspect - to the Christmas market. 


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 01, 2018, 11:48:08 am
... there's another planned weekend closure at the minute to finish the filton bank works

Utter chaos at Swindon today ... Add in a Cross Country Train mix, a failed train in the area (from Melksham we arrived in the Swindon area on the down line, then a 5+5 IET arrived and terminated!), and overcrowding of the Bath service due - I suspect - to the Christmas market. 

Looking at Opentraintimes now looks like it has cleared, But there is a 1V48 coming out of plat 1 over points towards Bath.

Now looks like an unusual train now gone into plat 1, 1T12 that has terminated.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 01, 2018, 11:54:58 am
Filton Bank closed again this weekend.

Also what a pathetic bit of signalling that is?, A train from Cheltenham was held on the Kemble line, for the terminated train to leave platform 1. The signalman should of put it in plat 3, then it would of been on time, now their incompetence has delayed it by 10 minutes, No wonder people are fed up with delays, Crikey! if my father had done that in Gloucester panel years ago he would have been told off.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on December 02, 2018, 12:26:16 pm
Filton Bank closed again this weekend.

Also what a pathetic bit of signalling that is?, A train from Cheltenham was held on the Kemble line, for the terminated train to leave platform 1. The signalman should of put it in plat 3, then it would of been on time, now their incompetence has delayed it by 10 minutes, No wonder people are fed up with delays, Crikey! if my father had done that in Gloucester panel years ago he would have been told off.

It’s a bit off topic but if you were held at the signal outside Swindon on the up line there is no route from there into Platform 3, only into Platform 1 or 2 (bay). That’s why you would’ve had to wait for the other one to move first.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 02, 2018, 12:43:33 pm
Filton Bank closed again this weekend.

Also what a pathetic bit of signalling that is?, A train from Cheltenham was held on the Kemble line, for the terminated train to leave platform 1. The signalman should of put it in plat 3, then it would of been on time, now their incompetence has delayed it by 10 minutes, No wonder people are fed up with delays, Crikey! if my father had done that in Gloucester panel years ago he would have been told off.

It’s a bit off topic but if you were held at the signal outside Swindon on the up line there is no route from there into Platform 3, only into Platform 1 or 2 (bay). That’s why you would’ve had to wait for the other one to move first.

The train was on the line coming from Kemble, but they let it pass Signal SW1316, If held there it can cross over at Rodbourne then into plat 3 via Signal SW1312. They have the layout, but cease to use it, Same as somebody said about the extra routes on the Filton Bank.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: metalrail on December 02, 2018, 09:44:40 pm
The train was on the line coming from Kemble, but they let it pass Signal SW1316, If held there it can cross over at Rodbourne then into plat 3 via Signal SW1312. They have the layout, but cease to use it, Same as somebody said about the extra routes on the Filton Bank.

If they're just leaving it running on ARS then it will just run into the scheduled platform


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 03, 2018, 12:04:43 pm
...First certainly don't run an 18 in Bristol...

No. They did, but not any more. Think it went from Lyde Green to Avonmouth, others may know better...

i think Wessex ran it at one time, then First when they gave it up. They suspended it for the Bromley Heath bridge works, but seem to have forgotten to reinstate it. It doesn't help that nobody really wants to go to either place it served.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 03, 2018, 12:08:34 pm
The train was on the line coming from Kemble, but they let it pass Signal SW1316, If held there it can cross over at Rodbourne then into plat 3 via Signal SW1312. They have the layout, but cease to use it, Same as somebody said about the extra routes on the Filton Bank.

If they're just leaving it running on ARS then it will just run into the scheduled platform

They have the means to turn it off, I suppose, I watched a freight crawl at a snails pace down from Wootton Basset Junction to Thingley and there were four trains backed up behind it, Just came out of Swindon, Anyway they cancelled the up signals and ran two down the up main.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 03, 2018, 12:11:19 pm
...First certainly don't run an 18 in Bristol...

No. They did, but not any more. Think it went from Lyde Green to Avonmouth, others may know better...

i think Wessex ran it at one time, then First when they gave it up. They suspended it for the Bromley Heath bridge works, but seem to have forgotten to reinstate it. It doesn't help that nobody really wants to go to either place it served.

Here's a picture of a Number 18 bus at Porkway, captured by a low-flying google satellite (probly) in 2016: https://goo.gl/maps/72bCRfkZ98D2


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 03, 2018, 12:51:11 pm
They have the means to turn it off, I suppose, I watched a freight crawl at a snails pace down from Wootton Basset Junction to Thingley and there were four trains backed up behind it, Just came out of Swindon, Anyway they cancelled the up signals and ran two down the up main.

Once a slow train is let out from Westbury, or from Swindon / Royal Wootton Bassett, there is no easy way for it to be put off to one side to be overtaken.  As both main lines are bi-directional, in a desperate situation the option provides a "get out of jail" card - but it's not free as it prevents any trains from running the other way.

One potential solution is a loop - and please make it a long, bidirectional, dynamic one from somewhere near Thingley / Notton through Lacock and Beanacre to Dunch Lane, Melksham.  Where once the track there was a pair of 7'0" gauge lines, it's currently just a single 4'8.5" gauge line; it might need slewing but on that stretch there are no major bridges that would need to be re-widened.  And as well as sorting out the freight issue, it would enable an hourly passenger service each way via the line, without eating up two thirds of the paths and without resulting in a long timetable layover of a train at Swindon (or Oxford if extended there).


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on December 03, 2018, 02:07:46 pm
Long article (six pages) in Rail magazine 867 headed 'Bristol keen to channel rail intentions' by Daniel Puddicombe. Offers a view of where we are, and what the problems are facing us in the future.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 05, 2018, 06:38:27 pm
I am in Bristol for a couple of days, so decided to take a look for myself. I started at Constable Road, looking towards Bonnington Walk bridge:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4872/45280334405_69cd4145ec_c.jpg)

They seem proud of the railway in these parts:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4832/46141744942_8dacdfc0b5_c.jpg)

Looking towards Temple Meads:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4826/30905221867_eacd24617e_c.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4894/44375129640_08b3c704d1_c.jpg)

Still work in progress:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4839/45120083714_23060938f9_c.jpg)

For a moment, I thought that maybe four tracks wasn't enough:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4868/44375116080_2abeff7a8a_c.jpg)

But it all turned out well:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4879/46192289531_53d08dd77c_c.jpg)

Brand new thingummy:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4859/45279934785_d36797909f_c.jpg)

A brief look at Ashley Hill:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4818/46141727302_5a1f9a167b_c.jpg)

with passive provision for a station:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4910/31253677837_63f99c349e_c.jpg)

Who knows? This could be an appropriate name again:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4841/45468157064_875646b778_c.jpg)

Stapleton Road, with a train approaching the new bridge on the down main:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4829/45468151694_19da04ba0b_c.jpg)

Looking the other way:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4818/46141723172_812f892291_c.jpg)

Enhanced footbridge:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4904/45468145194_1841a3cf98_c.jpg)

The muriel remains in good shape:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4810/45468138374_04c853d091_c.jpg)

By this time, I was spitting feathers. Therefore:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4808/46192268861_f5562c9f05_c.jpg)

Cheers!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: rogerw on December 05, 2018, 06:42:38 pm
Nice pictures.  A fair bit of tidying up still to be done though


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 05, 2018, 06:55:32 pm

They seem proud of the railway in these parts:


Aye, you can't beat a good ol' American 6-4-0...

Nice pics. Surprising to see the odd platoon of the Orange Army still out and about - maybe the boss needs to go out and tell them all personally that the war is over.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 05, 2018, 07:11:52 pm

They seem proud of the railway in these parts:


Aye, you can't beat a good ol' American 6-4-0...

Nice pics. Surprising to see the odd platoon of the Orange Army still out and about - maybe the boss needs to go out and tell them all personally that the war is over.

There is still significant tidying up to be done, plus the reconstruction of the platform at Stapleton Road.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 05, 2018, 07:26:45 pm
Is that signal working, it looks out!.

Nice to see the Junction Ind lit as well.

Nice points,now we need Standish and Abbotts wood to look like that, as they are rubbish?. I-e Too slow for modern trains.

Banner repeaters are still there?.

Oh look!, Is that,that old piece of point again?. This was taken before in an earlier post.

Just found out that the above junctions are going to be remodelled sometime next year.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on December 05, 2018, 11:21:52 pm

They seem proud of the railway in these parts:


Aye, you can't beat a good ol' American 6-4-0...

Nice pics. Surprising to see the odd platoon of the Orange Army still out and about - maybe the boss needs to go out and tell them all personally that the war is over.

There is still significant tidying up to be done, plus the reconstruction of the platform at Stapleton Road.

And a surprising amount of tidying to be done at Filton Abbey Wood. Operationally, however, it seems to be working well. I came in from Cardiff on a 165 on the reliefs, calling at Filton. Homeward to Cheltenham was XC on the mains, with a 220 powering up the bank. Ride is good on both sets of track.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on December 06, 2018, 07:35:34 am
I am in Bristol for a couple of days, so decided to take a look for myself. I started at Constable Road, looking towards Bonnington Walk bridge:

I think the rails should have upended themselves 90 degrees and bowed in humble adoration to their wise and benevolent benefactor who has trumpeted their cause for so long ! And Tony came , and saw....and it was good ! ;D



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on December 06, 2018, 09:57:01 am
By this time, I was spitting feathers. Therefore:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4808/46192268861_f5562c9f05_c.jpg)

Cheers!

Yesterday, Wednesday? Discount pint day at the Van Dyck!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on December 06, 2018, 10:32:16 am
By this time, I was spitting feathers. Therefore:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4808/46192268861_f5562c9f05_c.jpg)

Cheers!

Yesterday, Wednesday? Discount pint day at the Van Dyck!

Four Pints, Now!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 06, 2018, 12:22:10 pm
Still haven't had chance to ride down it yet, Too busy and constantly feeling cold, Has anyone got an idea, as to when Ashley Hill is likely to be built?.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 07, 2018, 12:30:56 pm
Still haven't had chance to ride down it yet, Too busy and constantly feeling cold, Has anyone got an idea, as to when Ashley Hill is likely to be built?.

It's on the "urgent" list, so probably about 50 years time.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 07, 2018, 12:42:36 pm
Once complete will FTN be changing his username to 'Four Tracked Then'? Seriously though, this is good news. Filton bank is a very crowded portion of track and this is long overdue. Also looking forward to extra platform at Bristol Parkway

Not quite...


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 07, 2018, 12:53:20 pm
Still haven't had chance to ride down it yet, Too busy and constantly feeling cold, Has anyone got an idea, as to when Ashley Hill is likely to be built?.

It's on the "urgent" list, so probably about 50 years time.

Crikey! I may never see it then?.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 07, 2018, 01:00:16 pm
Still haven't had chance to ride down it yet, Too busy and constantly feeling cold, Has anyone got an idea, as to when Ashley Hill is likely to be built?.

It's on the "urgent" list, so probably about 50 years time.

Crikey! I may never see it then?.

Hopefully, I will be proved wrong!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 07, 2018, 01:12:46 pm
Still haven't had chance to ride down it yet, Too busy and constantly feeling cold, Has anyone got an idea, as to when Ashley Hill is likely to be built?.

It's on the "urgent" list, so probably about 50 years time.

Crikey! I may never see it then?.

Hopefully, I will be proved wrong!

I suppose it is down to Bristol City Council, who would probaby put in some money to NR.



Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 09, 2018, 12:06:22 pm
Filton bank and Bristol parkway seems closed again, How dare they do that on my Birthday. There is a signal number in Gloucester station with my age on, G??.

I Think it would be nice if we could have a thread on the Gloucester eastgate station, Maybe some members on here would have old pictures.

It closed on the 1st of December 1975 to the disscust of the city, so I was told by John.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on December 09, 2018, 01:41:18 pm
Filton bank and Bristol parkway seems closed again, How dare they do that on my Birthday. There is a signal number in Gloucester station with my age on, G??.

I Think it would be nice if we could have a thread on the Gloucester eastgate station, Maybe some members on here would have old pictures.

It closed on the 1st of December 1975 to the disscust of the city, so I was told by John.

Happy 54th Birthday DB.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 09, 2018, 02:31:38 pm
Filton bank and Bristol parkway seems closed again, How dare they do that on my Birthday. There is a signal number in Gloucester station with my age on, G??.

I Think it would be nice if we could have a thread on the Gloucester eastgate station, Maybe some members on here would have old pictures.

It closed on the 1st of December 1975 to the disscust of the city, so I was told by John.

Happy 54th Birthday DB.

How did you pick that number, there are other numbers, G58 and G35 also.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 09, 2018, 02:45:10 pm
Filton bank and Bristol parkway seems closed again, How dare they do that on my Birthday. There is a signal number in Gloucester station with my age on, G??.

I Think it would be nice if we could have a thread on the Gloucester eastgate station, Maybe some members on here would have old pictures.

It closed on the 1st of December 1975 to the disscust of the city, so I was told by John.

Many happy off-peak returns!


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on December 09, 2018, 05:16:11 pm
Filton bank and Bristol parkway seems closed again, How dare they do that on my Birthday. There is a signal number in Gloucester station with my age on, G??.

I Think it would be nice if we could have a thread on the Gloucester eastgate station, Maybe some members on here would have old pictures.

It closed on the 1st of December 1975 to the disscust of the city, so I was told by John.

Happy birthday DB, you can always go to the beautiful Gloucester City Centre to eat  ;) ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on December 09, 2018, 11:20:41 pm
Filton bank and Bristol parkway seems closed again, How dare they do that on my Birthday. There is a signal number in Gloucester station with my age on, G??.

I Think it would be nice if we could have a thread on the Gloucester eastgate station, Maybe some members on here would have old pictures.

It closed on the 1st of December 1975 to the disscust of the city, so I was told by John.

Happy 54th Birthday DB.

How did you pick that number, there are other numbers, G58 and G35 also.

I picked it because it was the correct one 😁


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tony (Formerly FT, N!) on December 10, 2018, 12:38:49 am

How did you pick that number, there are other numbers, G58 and G35 also.

where is G103?


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on December 10, 2018, 01:37:20 am

How did you pick that number, there are other numbers, G58 and G35 also.

where is G103?


Oh goody, another round of Only Connect  ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 10, 2018, 11:35:14 am

How did you pick that number, there are other numbers, G58 and G35 also.

where is G103?


There is,nt a G103, But there is a GA103 At Alstone crossing, Set by Gloucester panel, then released by Alstone crossing box.

G54 is the plat 1 down starter, usually shows amber for trains into plat 2.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 13, 2018, 12:47:30 pm
Where is everyone, Seem to of have Disowned the Filton bank. I Am still waiting to travel down to see it. Waiting for Bristol parkway to be electrified.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 13, 2018, 12:53:36 pm
Where is everyone

Well - my nearest station at the moment is Waterbeach

Quote
Seem to of have Disowned the Filton bank. I Am still waiting to travel down to see it. Waiting for Bristol parkway to be electrified.

Posts here and elsewhere ebb and flow in sync with significant things going on or not and we're now in the wind down towards Christmas. Rail and public transport meetings are fewer for a few weeks ... train cancellations seem to be down.  Campaign for 6 tracks on Filton Bank not due to start until February  ;D


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 13, 2018, 01:23:34 pm
Where is everyone

Well - my nearest station at the moment is Waterbeach

Quote
Seem to of have Disowned the Filton bank. I Am still waiting to travel down to see it. Waiting for Bristol parkway to be electrified.

Posts here and elsewhere ebb and flow in sync with significant things going on or not and we're now in the wind down towards Christmas. Rail and public transport meetings are fewer for a few weeks ... train cancellations seem to be down.  Campaign for 6 tracks on Filton Bank not due to start until February  ;D


Gosh! Do we need six tracks now?. Just got the other two, I feel its time Network Rail had something else to spend money on, I think Gloucester and Cheltenham should be next, some of our tracks are dreadful, also the points are on their last motors, as they are so old. And this year some have been failing, delaying trains.Also the East junction at BTM Is about to be done, When resignalled they did not change the points or signals, but rewired new cables to the old ones. So a job waiting, I Read somewhere on NR Website that it was being done on the 25th and 26th,Christmas and boxing days), Also some change to Westbury which I assume is for an additional platform and two tracking the line through Melksham. I Can see there being a riveting thread on that one, the cameras will be back out!. Lets live in hope, Look forward to 2019.


Title: Re: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 13, 2018, 01:25:58 pm
Where is everyone

Well - my nearest station at the moment is Waterbeach

Quote
Seem to of have Disowned the Filton bank. I Am still waiting to travel down to see it. Waiting for Bristol parkway to be electrified.

Posts here and elsewhere ebb and flow in sync with significant things going on or not and we're now in the wind down towards Christmas. Rail and public transport meetings are fewer for a few weeks ... train cancellations seem to be down.  Campaign for 6 tracks on Filton Bank not due to start until February  ;D

Sad to say, Christmas is just another normal day to me, Just cook dinner as usual.



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