Great Western Coffee Shop

Um, that's two topics actually....  I'm new at this posting thing so please bear with me.

Thank you guys, for your welcoming replies to my first post!

Timetables make me go cross eyed.  Does anyone else suffer from this affliction?  Anyway, because I'm too lazy to read the appropriate timetable for my required journey I thought I'd just do a quick post and see whether anyone is kind enough to reply with perhaps just a theoretical answer for now.  My daughter and her partner live in Southville, Bristol and I'm wondering whether, when the new services are up and running next month, I'll be able to reach Bristol Temple Meads from Melksham (or is there a nearer station?).  Next question - trains are so relaxing to travel on, how does one avoid missing the required station on account of being asleep?!  I suppose it's a case of setting the alarm on my mobile 'phone.
Thanks very much for all your help with the timetables and suggestions folks.  I shall of course be taking Echo with me on the train (my bearded collie babe) so I'm not sure how I thought I might sleep on the train!

I haven't worked out yet how to add just part of a quote from another post (sorry, I'm an IT dinosaur) but will reply here to bignosemac by saying I need to go to Exeter Road in Southville to visit my daughter & family, so if you can make a suggestion as to where would be the closest place to alight from the train, that would be really helpful, thanks.

From the 8th December you will have various options to travel from Melksham to Bristol Temple Meads with one change of train at Chippenham. If you want to get closer to Southville then another change at Bristol Temple Meads would be required for a train to either Bedminster Station or Parson Street Station dependent on where exactly in Southville your daughter lives.

The new service to/from Melksham has up to 8 trains each way per day Mon-Sat, with fewer on Sunday. How good the interchange(s) would be, and how long the journey time would be will be dependent on when, more precisely, you want to travel.

Come back nearer the time (on/after 8th December obviously!) you wish to travel from Melksham to Bristol by train, with dates and times, and we can look at the potential options then, rather than provide all the theoretical options now.

You'll also be able to do it with one change of trains at Trowbridge, using the 8 trains going the other way - so that's 16 trains from Melksham to Bristol Temple Meads.   Monday to Friday it will look like

Melksham   Bristol
06:38    07:46   via Trowbridge (*)
07:20    08:17   via Chippenham (*)
07:48    08:45   via Chippenham
09:15    10:28   via Trowbridge
10:04    11:15   via Chippenham
11:13    12:33   via Trowbridge
12:03    13:15   via Chippenham
13:13    14:35   via Trowbridge
14:30    15:40   via Chippenham
15:53    16:48   via Trowbridge
16:31    17:41   via Chippenham
18:03    19:29   via Trowbridge
18:48    19:43   via Chippenham
19:17    20:26   via Trowbridge (* - currently 19:11)
19:47    20:44   via Chippenham (*)
20:38    21:48   via Trowbridge

Trains (*) are already running


Yes, lots of people do ... I've seen five official timetable formats / data presentations so far since I started looking at the best way of presenting Melksham -> Bristol, which is one of the harder ones because of the multiple routes.   And I've tried several of my own - you can see some in other threads (and you'll probably realise why I should leave it to the professionals)


Taking a dog like our Billy helps.  No sleep allowed  ;D

Billy would indeed be one answer (I've met him ;) ).

Alternatively, you could try these: http://www.ltmuseumshop.co.uk/gifts-and-souvenirs/souvenirs/product/wake-me-up-at-underground-sticker-set.html  :D

I should also complement the Melksham -> Bristol table with a Bristol -> Melksham:

Monday to Friday from 9th December;  times vary at holiday times and on Saturdays.

Bristol  Melksham
06:00    06:38    via Chippenham (*)
06:48    07:48    via Trowbridge
08:30    09:15    via Chippenham
09:05    10:04    via Trowbridge
10:30    11:13    via Chippenham
10:49    12:03    via Trowbridge
12:30    13:13    via Chippenham
13:22    14:30    via Trowbridge
15:00    15:53    via Chippenham
15:22    16:31    via Trowbridge
17:00    18:03    via Chippenham
17:49    18:48    via Trowbridge
18:30    19:17    via Chippenham (*)
18:52    19:47    via Trowbridge (*)
19:30    20:38    via Chippenham

Services (*) are the current service

Looking at the National Rail website for the 9th December it gives all those services. interestingly the fare seems to be the same either way ay ^9.60 single (No Rail Card)  which seems good value.

Jounrney times seem to vary between 57 mins via Chippenham and 1 22. The latter being via Westbury although both trains stop at trowbridge. It must think an 11 minute change at Westbury preferable to a longer wait at Trowbridge.

No real solution to waking up problem but phone alarm is OK so long as you aren't in the quite coach on an HST, which you will be via Chippenham.

Welcome to the forum. It's good to hear of someone that intends to use the train now the service has improved.

Many TOC websites have a personal timetable gizmo, but I find the usual flaw is that they don't allow you to produce times for the whole day at once, just four hour slots.

Southern will generate a 24hr timetable though, I've attached an example below.  Could be improved if they interleaved the two routes, but you can't have everything...   :'(

Paul

Nice timetable.  Now if only there was a later evening service, say a 21:18 Westbury to Swindon and return at 22:11 Swindon to Westbury, then that would really be an excellent timetable.  I've picked those timings as that's what was running up until the service was curtailed in the mid 2000s, albeit with a much patchier daytime service. 

As it is it finishes a little earlier in the evening than ideal, though of course as massive improvement on the current timetable.  But if you're coming from further afield, London for example, 19:00 is still pretty early to have to leave in order to make the last train - though much better than the current 17:45!  I'm sure Graham and the team will not be resting on their laurels in that regard.  ;)

My draft London timetable includes a 20:45 off Paddington, 21:45 off Swindon, by bus from Chippenham Station at 22:22 to Melksham (22:47) and Trowbridge (23:06).  ;D

As both the bus and the train are run by First, and both the bus and the train are supported by Wiltshire Council, it would seem logical for the train tickets to be accepted for the bus journey, and for the bus to appear in official timetables.   Logic doesn't always happen, but the question is asked!

Wouldn't that be illegal? I thought buses are supposed to compete with trains. I suppose if the bus was run by First Great Western rather than First Bus Group then it might count as a train!

Not sure what you mean by cross-eyed, but I sometimes lose my place when trying to scan a timetable. My local bus operator shades every other row on their timetables, and the ATW (Arriva Trains Wales) timetable booklets used to shade every other column.

I decided to try combining the two. See the attachment, do you think this style is more readable?

They are meant to be competing, but anyone with a sense of logic in the UK can see they don't compete. An example down here is a route I use regularly, where the train fare is less than 50% of the bus fare and the train is 4 times quicker for the route. That isn't really competing, there is no competition which to use unless you want to go somewhere intermediate where the train doesn't stop, unless you fancy a stunt jump out of a HST window, where I have yet to find anyone to do so!

Except ... it's twice as costly on the bus for those of us in the main segment of our life, and infinitely cheaper on the bus at the point of use for senior citizens.

Re: Travelling to Bristol from Melksham using the improved timetable: Bignosemac, you suggested I returned to the forum with this topic after the 8th December.

I was talking to my daughter about getting to her place in Southville (Exeter Road) by train, and she seems to think I'd probably have to go to Temple Meads, then get a bus into the city centre, change there for another to take me to Southville.  "Just get in the car, mum"  (Talk about waving a ciggie packet under a determined quitter's nose). I mentioned your suggestion of alighting at Bedminster but she didn't think that would be any more helpful.  However, as her and her partner don't use the rail services very much, I'm not sure they're any more qualified to work it all out than me! 

I shan't be attempting the journey until after the New Year now, so just allowing for some 'thinking time' to consider my options. Any contributions to the thought processes gratefully received.  Thank you.

My apologies to Rhygaled for not replying sooner to the posting providing an alternative type of timetable: the Fishguard service. 

Yes, the alternately coloured bands, both vertical and horizontal certainly keeps the eyes on the level, as it were.  Thanks for that.

Looking at a map I'd say Bedminster station to Exeter Road is probably a maximum of 20 minute walk.

Google gives walking directions as follows

A slightly shorter walk can be had from Parson St Station.

http://goo.gl/maps/UCtTn

Thanks very much for your input guys.  At the moment, with an arthritic condition awaiting treatment I would be hard-pushed to walk a mile, will have a look at the other route and see just how much shorter that is.  Would there be a taxi rank outside either of these stations?

Paul 7755, thank you for providing the timetable earlier this month; handy job, pity I haven't used it!

There are no taxi ranks at either Bedminster or Parson Street.

In view of your particular requirements, Cynthia, you may be better getting the train to Bristol Temple Meads and then taking a taxi from there: there is a plentiful supply of them, and the fare shouldn't be too much for a relatively short journey.

Thank you. That would be easier than walking, certainly, but if I got off at Temple Meads it might be cheaper to explore which buses go to Southville.  It costs me a fiver to get from where I live to Melksham town centre, so I daresay the cost to the station would be about the same, so if I got a taxi the other end as well, things are going to start getting expensive.  The obvious answer would be to drive to the station and leave my car parked there, but as I am trying to improve my green credentials, this doesn't seem like a good idea!  Santa, please can I have a bus from Berryfield to Melksham station to match the new train services!?

Not sure about Santa, but we know another man with a beard who might be able to help.  ;)

The two buses a day on Service 15 that run via Berryfield will get you to ASDA, but unfortunately in both cases you would only have a couple of minutes to get across to Melksham station before the train arrives.

I suspect even the fittest amongst us would struggle to make that.

buses@wiltshire.gov.uk is worth dropping an email to on this subject, particularly if you can demonstrate that demand exists for an improved and/or modified service.

Both the Chippenham - Frome bus routes stop at what they call "Melksham / Berryfield" which is at the Waney Edge - the call is a minute or two after the Somerset Arms stop in Semington, which is show in the Monday to Friday timetables at the following times:

234 (First) @ 0702 0807 0917 1033 1133 1233 1333 1433 1533 1636 1736 1833 2029 2149 and 2354

x34 (Faresaver) @ 7:55 9:04 9:34 10:24 10:54 11:24 11:54 12:24 12:54 13:24 13:54 14:24 15:24 16:24 16:54 and 17:26

As I don't live in Berryfield nor know it particularly well, I wouldn't like to comment on how suitable this stopping location is for the users and potential users from the various streets off Semington Road.

They both serve Melksham town centre before continuing towards Chippenham, on which route they stop at Aldi / McDonalds in what I'll call North Melksham. Usuaully that's around 10 minutes after the times above.  That is the stop shown on the station connection notices that are now at the station, but it's a somewhat awkward walk around two sides of a triangle, and involves crossing the A350 twice (once via underpass) or walking along a trunk A road with no footpath.

Return at

x34 (Faresaver) @ 7:05 7:40 8:55 9:25 9:55 10:25 10:55 11:25 11:55 12:25 12:55 13:25 13:55 14:34 15:25 16:14 16:51 17:39

234 (First) @ 0759 0932 1032 1132 1232 1332 1432 1540 1657 1747 1844 1939 2038 and 2241

For consistency, these are Beanacre times and the departure from Aldi / McDonald's (only one road crossing ;-) ) will be around 4 minutes later, taking aroud 10 minutes to "Melksham / Berryfileds".  Note that the 14:34 bus takes 30 minutes as it goes via Melksham Oak.

Times differ on Saturdays and there is no service at all on Sundays.  And Faresaver are changing their timetable from the beginning (6th?) January; I think the frequency remains the same, though.

First question - looking at during the day ... how does this look?
No decent connection to 09:15 train from Melksham
09:34 bus Berryfield, 10:04 train from Melksham
10:54 bus Berryfield, 11:13 train from Melksham
11:34 bus Berryfield, 12:03 train from Melksham
12:54 bus Berryfield, 13:13 train from Melksham

I would need to try out the 10:54 and 12:54 as they may be a little tight on timing, considering the walk around, and I don't have reliabiity figures for the bus. The 09:34 and 11:34 look muchmore practical, and for Bristol you can take any train and change at Chippenham or at Trowbridge depending on which you get.

Access from Aldi / Mconalds to the station MUCH more easily is an aspiration that's got some considerable activity going in towards its implementation - that would allow the connections that I question above to become much more practical - either as a much shorter and safer route, or with the bus actually calling at the Station.

With forthcoming timetable changes (chances are that the x34 may move closer to the 234 times), and being unfamiliar with the metrics of parts of the requirement (and the demand and timing levels, perceived and in practise) I had better not go too much further.  But buses do change (there are other changes in the pipeline) and the changes can be influenced with evidence, flow logic, etc.  A complex business and also often frustrated by regulation, competition, the need to serve other flows,  and various other distortions.

Lee's suggestions of dropping a line to Wiltshire Council is a good one. And so is Trainer's idea about people who can help - IW, PG, DP, SF working together, supported by JT and RM to provide a quality bus provision.  There's no Santa figure I'm afraid, but if you're happy to dress up as / be an elf, have others to Echo your sentiments, and are happy to put in real effort to a realistic approach, it's amazing what can be done.  Often the smallest of changes (such as taking space time out of a bus route that's being released by changing its route in Chippenham) and reassigning it to a housing loop in Melksham) may be a two minute wonder to the operator, but your salvation.  Bear in mind that of every 10 ideas 9 will turn out to be impractical, but then only one solution is needed,  Now is a good time to find it.

I had ruled out the 234/X34 option with its comparatively lengthy walks, due to the arthritic condition that Cynthia mentions. It would be interesting to see how realistic it would be in practice for others, though.

By the way, those who are only identified by initials by grahame will be the ones who read and answer emails sent to the address I gave.

!?!

Oh!  The penny has just dropped!  ;D The kind gentleman concerned has already given me lots of food for thought here, and some ideas with which to experiment, thank you grahame, and all other helpful souls who have made suggestions to aid my travel plans.  Thank you!

There is no direct bus route between Bristol Temple Meads and the part of Southville you're heading for, but bus numbers 24 & 25 stop every ten minutes on Redcliffe Hill (about a five minute walk from the station) and on North Street (the main road at the end of Exeter Road).  There are reasonable bus shelters with basic bench seating on Redcliffe Hill and it's easy to find, being in the shadow of St Mary Redcliffe church (which is itself worth a visit, if you have time!).

Bus timetables (http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/bristol_bath/journey_planning/timetables/index.php?operator=3&service=24/25&page=1&redirect=no) are available on the First Bus website.

Hope this helps with the other end of your journey!

CfN  ;)

Chris from Nailsea, thanks very much for your input.  What some helpful folk there are on this forum!

It's actually an excellent idea in some circumstances.

According to the Connecting Wiltshire (http://www.connectingwiltshire.co.uk) web site, a car journey from Berryfield to Melksham station produces 0.6 kgs of CO2, but a journey from Berryfield to the area of Bristol that you're going to produced 11.2 kgs ... so you're improving your green credentials 18 times over - that's pretty impressive!

Ironically, one of the justifications for additional parking at Melksham station IS the improved sustainability, cutting longer car journeys down to much shorter ones.

grahame, I'm learning something new every day on this forum.  :)  I always thought it was considered 'ungreen' to make short journeys in the car.  There you are, I needn't feel guilty any more.  It would certainly make life easier for me driving to the station, as, if my mobility is particularly poor when due to travel, a walk up to the New Inn bus stop would tire me out and make me very sore before I'd even started my journey by public transport.

Thank you!  I will explore all options for getting to the railway station by bus for future reference.

Cynthia, may I just say that I echo that particular sentiment! :o ::) ;D

I would also like to gently qualify my previous suggestion that any walk from Bristol Temple Meads to Redcliffe Hill would be achievable in five minutes.  It will probably be more like ten minutes - but my suggestion of a stop en route to investigate the wonders of St Mary Redcliffe church would still be worthwhile, and there is obviously seating within that building, if required.  ;)

To Chris from Nailsea:

I find it very encouraging to read that you, as a hero member of this forum are still learning new things.  I must say I'm finding many of the posts make very interesting reading; or is that a symptom of me needing to get out more!?

Thanks, Cynthia! ;)

The term 'hero member' is merely assigned to me by our forum software as someone who has posted a certain number of times: other epithets have been given to me by some of our members on a rather more scientific basis.  :P ::) ;D

Chris from Nailsea: after a couple of Christmas Eve glasses of wine I can't even pronounce epithets, let alone know what they are!  Oh, go on, you know you want to tell!

From google:


'Pedantic' is just one of them, in my case.  :-[

Oh, better watch what I say then.... Anyway, takes all sorts to make a world.  One could not have an interesting exchange of ideas if all thoughts ran along the same track.  Oh, that was a bit cheesy, on this site..... :D