Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => London to Didcot, Oxford and Banbury => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on November 03, 2013, 17:53:01



Title: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 03, 2013, 17:53:01
From the Oxford Mail (http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/10780406._/?):

Quote
All aboard for rail plan rumpus

(http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/resources/images/2709891.jpg?type=articleLandscape)
Ian Salisbury at the level crossing OX61564 Ric Mellis

An allotment holder applied for permission to build his own railway line to make a point. But it didn^t turn out the way he had expected and to his surprise Ian Salisbury, of Lathbury Road, Oxford, had his plan approved by the city council.

Mr Salisbury has been fighting Network Rail plans to build a new freight line from Oxford Station to Wolvercote and the closure of a crossing.

Because of that and other work, like electrification and redevelopment of Oxford station, rail traffic going through the Aristotle Lane crossing in North Oxford will double from 11 trains per hour to 22 by 2019.

Trains will also travel at up to 90mph ^ 20mph faster than now ^ and railway officials say the level crossing will be too risky for use. Mr Salisbury was hoping his application would be rejected to prove that Network Rail will not be able to get permission for its line.

He said: ^I am thinking about what to do next. I have a further option but I am keeping it up my sleeve. I am not an expert but what the law says is that when new track is laid they have to make a planning application and if there is an objection the Secretary of State will appoint an inspector to allow people to make representations. That is what we have not been allowed to do.^

Mr Salisbury said the level crossing was ^low risk^ with no accidents in its 175-year history.

Network Rail claims it has permitted development rights, which means it does not have to apply for planning permission.

Network Rail has said it will rebuild the Aristotle Lane footbridge which is around 100 yards from the level crossing.

In February, the city council agreed to give up its rights over the footpath, but it will only close once improvements have been made to the bridge.

Oxford City Council officer Hannah Revell said work Network Rail is carrying out is lawful and so Mr Salisbury^s plans were approved.

A Network Rail spokesman said: ^There are major enhancements planned and this investment will result in more capacity and trains at higher speeds ^ these factors represent an increase in risk of someone being struck by a train.^


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: martvw on November 03, 2013, 20:54:10
Is this not the relaying/extension of the former down goods loop line that existed up until 1973 , so is not a new freight line, but the reinstatement of the old loop line " as network rail says it is putting track back" so does not need planning permission ?


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: Busboy W1 on November 04, 2013, 10:10:04
I wouldn't mind seeing the plans for the proposed Railway by the man in question. As long as he doesn't want to knock through my flat it could make for another tourist attraction for Oxford !


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: ChrisB on November 04, 2013, 10:17:11
That old freight line is being extended almost to Wolvercot junction - although it is staying with the railway boundary. It's almost complete too.


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: paul7575 on November 04, 2013, 15:19:42
Oxford Mail:

"Network Rail claims it has permitted development rights, which means it does not have to apply for planning permission."

It isn't a claim, it definitely does have permitted development rights, almost always allowed for under the original Act for the relevant railway.  I'm surprised the Oxford Mail didn't know that...

Paul



Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: ellendune on November 04, 2013, 19:51:30
Oxford Mail:

Quote
"Network Rail claims it has permitted development rights, which means it does not have to apply for planning permission."

It isn't a claim, it definitely does have permitted development rights, almost always allowed for under the original Act for the relevant railway.  I'm surprised the Oxford Mail didn't know that...

Not the original Act as that normally pre-dates the planning system. You will find it in:

The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995, Schedule 2 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/418/schedule/2/made)

Quote

PART 17 DEVELOPMENT BY STATUTORY UNDERTAKERS
Class A Railway or light railway undertakings

A.    Permitted development

Development by railway undertakers on their operational land, required in connection with the movement of traffic by rail.

A.1    Development not permitted

Development is not permitted by Class A if it consists of or includes^

  (a)the construction of a railway,
  (b)the construction or erection of a hotel, railway station or bridge, or
  (c)the construction or erection otherwise than wholly within a railway station of^[/li][/list]
     (i)an office, residential or educational building, or a building used for an industrial process, or
     (ii)a car park, shop, restaurant, garage, petrol filling station or other building or structure provided under transport legislation.

A.2    Interpretation of Class A

For the purposes of Class A, references to the construction or erection of any building or structure include references to the reconstruction or alteration of a building or structure where its design or external appearance would be materially affected.


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: stuving on November 04, 2013, 20:42:58
Part 17 covers anything a "statutory undertaker" does, irrespective of any other acts.
Part 11 covers development under local or private acts or orders, such as a railway act.

Quote
PART 11
DEVELOPMENT UNDER LOCAL OR PRIVATE ACTS OR ORDERS
 
Class A
 
Permitted development
A. Development authorised by^
(a) a local or private Act of Parliament,
(b) an order approved by both Houses of Parliament, or
(c) an order under section 14 or 16 of the Harbours Act 196431(orders for
securing harbour efficiency etc., and orders conferring powers for improvement, construction etc. of harbours) which designates specifically the nature of the development authorised and the land upon which it may be carried out.
 
Condition
A.1. Development is not permitted by Class A if it consists of or includes^
(a) the erection, construction, alteration or extension of any building, bridge, aqueduct, pier or dam, or
(b) the formation, laying out or alteration of a means of access to any highway used by vehicular traffic,
unless the prior approval of the appropriate authority to the detailed plans and specifications is first obtained.
 
Prior approvals
A.2. The prior approval referred to in paragraph A.1 is not to be refused by the appropriate authority nor are conditions to be imposed unless they are satisfied that^
(a) the development (other than the provision of or works carried out to a dam) ought to be and could reasonably be carried out elsewhere on the land; or
(b) the design or external appearance of any building, bridge, aqueduct, pier or dam would injure the amenity of the neighbourhood and is reasonably capable of modification to avoid such injury.
 
Interpretation of Class A
A. 3. In Class A, ^appropriate authority^ means^
(a) in Greater London or a metropolitan county, the local planning authority,
(b) in a National Park in England, outside a metropolitan county, the county planning authority,

For Reading, NR claimed permitted status under part 17 for the viaduct and associated works, applying for permission for anything that is a bridge or building. For the station, they claimed permitted status under part 11 and only applied for permission within the "limited grounds set out in A 2 of part 11".

At Oxford, I think that building or rebuilding a track within an existing railway does not count as "constructing a railway" so is permitted.



Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: stebbo on November 08, 2013, 18:18:43
So far as I am aware, this is merely relaying the old goods line - and I thought it was still in existence in the 1990s.


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: stebbo on November 08, 2013, 18:23:47
Indeed, see the earlier thread on the cutting down of trees north of Oxford which quotes an Oxford Mail article referring to the "reinstatement" of the goods line.

By the way, isn't the removal of level crossings supposed to be a "good thing" in safety terms? I recall the thread that ran a while back on the Yarnton level crossing accident in 2012. As I recall it, these local people use the crossing to get to their allotments complete with bags of fertiliser etc in wheelbarrows. Sounds like an accident/fatality waiting to happen.


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 08, 2013, 19:08:44
Sounds like an accident/fatality waiting to happen.

It is, and will be more so when the linespeed of the current 'down Jericho' is increased dramatically, bi-directionally signalled and the 'down passenger loop' is extended with high speed as well.  Local residents who have to put up with train horns blaring most of the day at the crossing warning boards will also benefit greatly when it's closed.  Particularly frustrating for Network Rail, given there's a perfectly good footbridge route a few yards away (which would be even better with small improvements) which is a slightly longer way round but avoids crossing the tracks entirely.

I wonder how Ian Salisbury (an Evergreen 3 objector too) would find the company at lunch of bereaved parents who've had their loved ones killed at similar crossings over the years?  And I wonder how he'd feel if the crossing stayed open and there was a fatal accident sometime in the future? 

Tackley, just down the line, had the option of removing the crossing by the station many years ago when Virgin's 'Operation Princess' improvements were being installed, but objected to an underpass as it meant those people on horseback would have to dismount.  A few years later an elderly woman was killed.  I wonder if anyone who was involved in preventing that from happening has any regrets?


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: bobm on November 08, 2013, 21:06:21
The RAIB report in that fatality at Tackley is here - http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/090330_R092009_Tackley.pdf (http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/090330_R092009_Tackley.pdf)

The safety assessment of the crossing is contained in that report.


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 09, 2013, 00:32:17
We have also discussed the Tackley level crossing previously, in some detail, in another topic at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2432


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: eightf48544 on November 09, 2013, 11:58:52
 Is this a vehicle crossing it doesn't look wide enough. But won't Network Rail have to provide a footbridge presumably ramped?


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 09, 2013, 14:05:16
Aristotle Lane crossing is a foot crossing - see http://www.panoramio.com/photo/37565682:

(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/37565682.jpg)



Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: ellendune on November 09, 2013, 15:13:21
There already seems to be a bridge only about 50 metres away.  A new ramp from that providing access into the allotments should be all that is required.


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 10, 2013, 10:08:45
There already seems to be a bridge only about 50 metres away.  A new ramp from that providing access into the allotments should be all that is required.

There already is an access ramp which leads to the a different entrance to the allotments.  The problem is that it is a detour from where the allotment owners park (near to the crossing) and will add 200-500 metres to the walk required from the car to the allotment, depending on which plot they've got.  Boo-hoo.  ::)


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: ellendune on November 10, 2013, 13:14:13
With one or two new ramps to the existing footbridge this could be reduced.


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 10, 2013, 21:09:49
Yes, I guess you could cut a little bit off of the access walk either side of the bridge if new ramps were installed.  Doubt that'd be good enough for Ian Salisbury though.


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: stebbo on November 12, 2013, 20:31:14
I understood Network Rail were going to provide ramps for the bridge.

By the way, see also the thread on today's SECOND accident in a year at Yarnton Lane crossing


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: JayMac on June 14, 2014, 13:50:51
From the Oxford Mail (http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/archive/2014/06/14/11278089.Price_hoping_crossing_threat_will_bridge_gap_with_rail_firm/) (14/06/2014):

Quote
THE leader of Oxford City Council has threatened to scupper one of Network Rail^s schemes if it does not provide ^disabled-friendly^ bridges in South Oxford.

Bob Price has said he would allow the company to close the Aristotle Lane level crossing in North Oxford, but only if it played ball with the Hinksey and Whitehouse Road footbridges.

As part of its ^1bn electrification scheme, Network Rail wants to close the level crossing, which leads to some allotments, as well as demolish the nearby bridge and replace it with a higher one.

It also wants to demolish the two bridges in South Oxford and make them taller.

The city council has objected to the fact that the bridges in South Oxford will not have ramps and so will be inaccessible for the disabled and those with buggies.

Mr Price said: ^The two footbridges are very important links and when they were first put there in the 1920s they didn^t accommodate for people who had disabilities or pushbuggies. We think it is perfectly reasonable to link the two issues. If, on the one hand, it would be sensible to close the crossing, it would also be sensible to accommodate the disabled at these two bridges.

^Since they have stuck to their guns, we are going to stick to ours.^

The city council refused prior approval to Network Rail to demolish the two bridges and both have since gone to appeal.

A government planning inspector supported Network Rail with the Hinksey footbridge while a decision is still pending on the Whitehouse Road bridge.

Meanwhile, Network Rail has submitted a planning application to demolish the Aristotle Lane footbridge and replace it, which would in turn allow it to close the nearby level crossing.

But the city council is the owner of the crossing rights to the private footpath and Network Rail must ask it to surrender those rights so the crossing can be closed for safety reasons.

Allotment holder, Frenchay Road resident and former city councillor Jim Campbell said: ^Anything that is done to keep the level crossing open in my opinion is a huge benefit.

^If the level crossing is closed it will take me a lot longer to get to my plot.^

Hayfield Road resident Jonathan Clark, who also has a plot, said: ^If Bob Price is using the level crossing as a negotiating strategy then good for him but it is slightly ironic because he was supporting the closure.

^I don^t think it is dangerous. If you are quick to cross, it is fine.^

Network Rail has said that it wants to demolish and replace the footbridge to enable the construction of a new passenger line between Oxford and Wolvercote.

Bringing this line back into use means it can run freight and passenger services on separate lines to reduce disruption and making the railway more reliable.

A Network Rail spokesman said: ^We will continue to work with Oxford City Council on our plans to improve and modernise the railway across the region.^

A decision on Network Rail^s planning application will be made by a committee of city councillors at a date yet to be set.


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: John R on June 14, 2014, 15:06:33
Cannot these changes be done within permitted rights? It may not be the case here, but I'm often puzzled why NR goes through a planning process if it doesn't need to.

As an example, when the planning application for the new ramps at Nailsea & Backwell station was put in, NR's response was:

Notwithstanding this support to this planning application, it is Network Rail^s view that these works are permitted development under Part 17A of the (General Permitted Development) Order 1995.

So why bother making applications and running the risk of complications?  It could prove to be a very expensive gesture at being a good neighbour.


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: ChrisB on June 14, 2014, 15:08:24
It's the closure over the level crossing that's the problem here - the City Council have rights across it....it has to be negotiated


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: Electric train on June 14, 2014, 18:07:49
Cannot these changes be done within permitted rights? It may not be the case here, but I'm often puzzled why NR goes through a planning process if it doesn't need to.

As an example, when the planning application for the new ramps at Nailsea & Backwell station was put in, NR's response was:

Notwithstanding this support to this planning application, it is Network Rail^s view that these works are permitted development under Part 17A of the (General Permitted Development) Order 1995.

So why bother making applications and running the risk of complications?  It could prove to be a very expensive gesture at being a good neighbour.

Generally NR will go through the local planning office even with permitted developments, minor items are usually done by a letter informing the local authority more major items are usually presented to the planning officer.  The reason for take items through the planning officer it keeps them on side so when planning permission is needed the local planner tend to be more receptive.

It's the closure over the level crossing that's the problem here - the City Council have rights across it....it has to be negotiated

With a level crossing NR can just go to the ORR to get it closed, if there is already an acceptable alternative or NR are funding one for that location and NR have held local consultations the ORR will grant the closure, the ORR want to reduce the number of level crossings.  The councillor may not be able to force the changes he wants his planning officer and executive officer will not support it if there is no legal reason; I am sure NR's stance on the existing bridges would be if the local authority fund the MIP access then they would do the work.  (MIP = Mobility Impaired Persons) 


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: ChrisB on June 14, 2014, 18:25:04
Agreed.

However, the City is always 'hard up' with no budget for these things, hence trying to get NR to pay as it is they that want a closure. The ORR can't act yet as there is no *acceptable* alternative to the rights holder


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on June 15, 2014, 14:13:17
I've taken the opportunity to move and merge a couple of topics here, as they cover the same ongoing issues.

CfN.  :)


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: ellendune on June 15, 2014, 16:27:13
Agreed.

However, the City is always 'hard up' with no budget for these things, hence trying to get NR to pay as it is they that want a closure. The ORR can't act yet as there is no *acceptable* alternative to the rights holder

If I understand correctly there are two separate issues that the city council are trying to bring together.  The first is Aristotle Lane (north of Oxford Station) where NR wish to close a level crossing and in that case they are going to have to provide an alternative access suitable to the existing users including provision for mobility impaired people.

The second is two existing footbridges south of the station where NR need to replace the existing footbridges at a higher level.  What NR are saying is that since the existing footbridges do not have ramps they will not install ramps on the new ones unless the City Council pay the difference. If NR have to do this for every footbridge they replace then no wonder the electrification costs are over budget.

In this case how about NR making passive provision for ramps to be installed in the future when money comes available?


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: ChrisB on June 15, 2014, 21:54:17
Agreed...but it has to ve 'acceptable' to the rights holder to get sign off. Otherwise probably need a court decision if the rights holder refuses sign off


Title: Re: Campaign to save Aristotle Lane level crossing from closure by Network Rail
Post by: stebbo on July 30, 2014, 11:13:56
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11373826.Rail_firm_can_replace_bridge_without_ramps/?ref=la

On the Oxford Times website this morning. Apparently Network Rail can replace both the bridges in question without ramps.



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net