Great Western Coffee Shop

Hello, I've been doing the Newton Abbot to Exeter St David's run for about four years now (probably the most beautiful bit of railway in England!) and I'll just share with you some of my thoughts...

I normally get the 8:03 from NA which was Virgin and is now Cross Country (aka Arriva).  Since Cross Country took over the franchise the train is a carriage shorter and has been cancelled a few times!  Not a good start and the funny, quirky announcements seem to have stopped as well....

I did get the 17:33 FGW home from Exeter but I have got sick of it being late most evenings, so I've started going for the 16:45 Cross Country service instead which seems more punctual.

I refuse to ever get on the little boneshaker trains which stop at every station in between - a 18 min journey turns into 40 mins and the trains have the insides of buses!

However, the train is still the cheapest way for me to commute (my employer loans me the money to get a yearly ticket which is ^1052 - about ^87 per month out of my pay) and the walk to and from the station is good for me (I think!) and it also means we can just keep to being a one car family.

I find the staff of FGW could be a bit more helpful sometimes and I rarely see them helping elderly people or people with very young children which I thought the Virgin staff were always very good at.

Overall, the slog on the train is a pain sometimes (mainly when it's raining and the trains are full) but it's cheap and I get to see the sea every day which can't be too bad.

I look forward to exchanging views with you all.....

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks, and I hope my first post doesn't seem too negative!  I have a few gripes (like every commuter I guess) but the train services do safely get me to and from work everyday and there is a certain atmosphere and culture associated with "riding the rail".  Sometimes after a crushingly bad day at work, I get off the train at Newton Abbot, tired and not looking forward to walking up the hill to get home and then I see people meeting loved ones of the train, old friends reunited, etc and then suddenely it doesn't all seem quite so bad.

Hi, welcome to the forum, Zebedee.  Your post doesn't come across as too negative; we're all looking to make our use of the railway as efficient and pleasant as possible and - let's face it - most of us wouldn't be here if we were totally happy with our lot.  Given a service from Melksham to Swindon at 07:45, returning an hour later, and another at 16:45, also returning an hour later this board probably wouldn't even exist!

Parts of the rail systems / some of the things done are great; the staff (in my area at least, and from what I read elseswhere too) are very helpful and I wouldn't want to swap 'em.   Some other things are not ideal of far from it; those tend to be the things we concentrate on. discussions on some can help us think of solutions.   Explanations from professional railway staff help us understand things and once we know WHY, a lot more can be accepted.  And there are just certain things we may campaign to get improved!

If the Voyager is cancelled, there is always the 0806 HST from platform 1. Guaranteed to get a seat, although admitadly it does stop everywhere apart from Dawlish Warren!

The 1733 (1505 Padd - Penzance) is very often late and just as unpredictable that seems to use the Berks and Hants line. I've travelled on it many time and often arrive into Newton Abbot 2o or so minutes late... Hence missing my connection to Paignton. I've had to run once as they put it in platform 3 for some reason  :-\

Hello Zebedee, I not a fan of the Boneshaker Railbuses, I hold the view they should never have been built, about your comment about FGW staff being helpfull, I suggest you try asking some of the never ending stream of Contractors working on the Railway for Help or Information, if lucky you are told "Sorry Don't work here" or you get told to "S** off pal".

In times past, BR had it's own maintenance teams whose Job WAS to give PAssengers as much help as they needed if they ask. The customer is always right speard to BR.

PS: Welcome to, and hope you enjoy the coffee shop.

If BR were so perfect then why did they build 141/142/143/144 units?

Didn't we agree the other day that they weren't that bad?  ???

I'm pointing out smokeys double standards, he's saying that the 14x units should never have been built, but then he's saying how perfect BR were in the same post.

It's not double standards, BR was a WHOLE LOT better than the mess we call a railway today.

BR had FAULTS, buying Railbuses was one of them, but that was down to the Government telling BR what to buy.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again the Victorians realised long wheelbases caused track damage, so only short wheelbase, 6 wheelers and bogie stock was built.

A bit like the DFT do today then!, the railway is a mess these days, but lets think back 10-15 years, it was FAR from perfect then, St Ives had 15 trains per day, Mon-Sat only in winter, the last train from St Ives at 1930, today St Ives has all year round Sunday service and the last train is 2150 from St Ives which connects with the sleeper, oh, and in 1996 a CDR from Siv-Pnz was ^2.80, it's ^3.00 now, 20p in 11 years?? Falmouth had no Sunday service apart from the six weeks of summer, now it has a Sunday service all year round, last train from Looe was 1830 even in summer! its now after 2000 in summer and 1930 in winter, Gunnislake, no winter sunday service, all year round now, oh, and Newquay had SEVEN trains per day all year til the late '80's, then it was reduced to the four we have today.

Mr Vacman, thankfully MORE people are using trains than under BR, that means that more services are Viable.

Passenger numbers have grown with many passengers tempted to make use of Book Ahead Cheap tickets, this would have come along under BR, they are a BABY of the computer age.

Service levels like the St Ives you quote are due to the Service being "Safe-Guarded" by franchise service requirements.

Falmouth was crying out for a all year Sunday Service, it might even have happened earlier if Regional Railways was still going.

In some ways the Sectorised BR was the Best BR ever got as Money WAS invested in Secondary services. The Class 158 was a Regional Railway baby.

Good to see all the lively debate!  I have got the 8:06 from Newton on occasion and, like you say, it's usually very quiet but a bit slow because of all the stops....but then that does offer better views of all the herons on the riverbank and the deer at Powderham, not bad for your morning commute!  I am quite lucky as I work near St.Davids so the straight through trains are the best generally, I don't have the added hassle of trying to get a connection at the Newton end either.  On the subject of Paignton, awhile ago they had an American (I think) announcing all the stops on one particular train I was on and he said PAYN-ING-TON instead of it's correct pronounciation (PAY-TON) - it was pretty funny!

I appreciate the smaller trains are needed to pick up the other stations along the way but they seem pretty old - although First Great Western have swapped them over quite recently, are the newer (?) trains generally any better? 

One thing I will miss since Virgin have left the scene are their class 57 rescue trains - Lady Penelope, FAB 1, etc...

Canadian I expect!!  ;)

57308 'Tin Tin' is at Plymouth right now incase of trobule during this mornings bad weather!!

The St Ives spec upon privatisation was for 15 trains per day with one through service to Penzance to arrive before 0900, Wessex introduced the higher service level off their own back, along with the Sunday service, YES they were then put in the FGW franchise spec but Wessex introduced it, you say about Falmouth you say MIGHT, well it might well have done but it didn't, it's all stuff that you say might have come under BR but unless you've got a crystal ball then we'll never know, but what is blaitently obvious is that these improvements have come around under privatisation whether thats despite it or because of it we'll never know, the railways did start making a step in the right direction under sectorisation because it was run on a more business style management, it had to otherwise no private operator would touch the railway! Privatisation was the right thing that was done the wrong way i.e. it was too fragmented (the wonderful "C" word, CONTRACTOR!), had Network rail being created in 1994 and kept everything in-house then things would have been better! Like I said before, it's a mess now BUT BR was far from perfect!!

These new trains you speak of, incase you havn't travelled on them look like; http://great-western.fotopic.net/p47420538.html

They are generally considered to be rail buses as they have 4 wheels per carriage, instead of the normal 8. This means a rough ride and they are built on a bus body, hence the bus seats! If I were you, i'd avoid them!

Good to hear that the Rescue trains are still around - we certainely need them along the Dawlish stretch during the winter!  I guess Arriva have taken a few of them on-board?  Hopefully they will keep the "International Rescue" theme.

I haven't been on those "new" railbuse trains and intend to avoid them - I dont generally have a need to use them fortunately.

I heard that Arriva will start putting on HST's instead of the Voyagers on some of their routes, so what's the general feeling of the preference?  I personally prefer the Voyagers as I'm not a huge fan on the refitted FGW HST trains as it makes me feel a bit enclosed although they are much brighter and cleaner and the seats are comfy.

Another funny thing - the tannoy message has had to change at Newton Abbot (and other stations) to accomodate "Cross Country" but it sounds wrong!  Its much higher pitched than the rest of the message and always makes me laugh - well, maybe I've just been travelling on the train for too long and I'm starting to lose the plot.....

I believe Arriva plan to refurb the HSTs to Voyager standards, so we can expect awful dirty seats, poor window/seat alignment and few tables all without the annoying rattles!

And smelly toilets.

Can't see them fitting retention tanks to HSTs? Is there room undernear the carriage?

MKIII sleepers have retention tanks so I presume yes.

I don't think that any franchise has a requirement to fit retention tanks because of HST2 but Arriva may decide to.

Just wondering, but the Vomet Comet Fleet (Virgin's and Arriva's) are all maintained at Burton on Trent, it's not a depot set up for HSTs, so where will they be serviced?

Probably Laira on Craigetenny?

Laira I'll bet, bear in mind all of the HST diagrams will work into Plymouth.

Cardiff being Arriva maintenance might just be the favourite place to service AXC HST's especially if a early service starts and late service terminates at BTM.

but thats a different franchise!

And not many Bristol services will be HSTs

Don't think Canton can do HST's can they?

Well it was only a Idea! Cardiff Canton is Arriva Trains Wales, so at least if ATW fleece AXC for maintenance it's only a paper exercise!

Will the HST diagrams be the services to/from Cornwall or will they be from Plymouth or will they just go in the Super Voyager pool. Anyone know?

Hi everyone, have a great day

Overall, the slog on the train is a pain sometimes (mainly when it's raining and the trains are full) but it's cheap and I get to see the sea every day which can't be too bad.

I look forward to exchanging views with you all.....


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Hi, footballyears.    I notice (as administartor here!) that you're posting from Niger of all places - or so it appears.   Can that be real?  And if so, what train services do you have there?

-- Graham

P.S.  Your signature appeared to be a bit off-topic; hope you don't mind, but I've modified it to help keep the board and links from it nice and crisp  ;)

Back with BR, the Chiltern Line was being mothballed and singled. With privatisation, double track has been fully restored, passenger numbers are up >60%, services frequencies have been at least doubled. [[Breath]] Places like Kidderminster have had first ever through services to London, a new station has been built at Warwick Parkway, a lot of investment has been put into stock and stations, London to Birmingham from ^4 with Chiltern.

And you say things were "A WHOLE LOT BETTER" with BR? The BR that had celebrations when they shut a line (e.g. Wallingford Branch closure, which was celebrated, Source a poster on P9 of "Along Lost Lines" by Paul Atterbury.)? The BR, that clearly wanted to get rid of most of the network.

No, some standards have gone down, such as maintenance, punctuality. Electrification has also come to a halt. I agree with that 100%. But the critical overcrowding and sky high prices we see today is much to do with the success of privatisation, and the fact that as many (if not more) people go by rail now that in the 1950s (before the Beeching Cuts).*

*NB I understand that the population has also gone up, but this is irrelevant. There is a clear passenger no.s increase after the mid 90s in the figures.

Sorry if I have started to hyper-rant again!

Thr problem was that BR was not given the investment it wanted. eg the project to upgrade the WCML. If they had been allocated half the money that has, very inefficiently, gone into the railways post privatisation, as well as a fraction of the money that the process of privatisation cost, then we would have had a superb system. I'm not saying that BR didn't have it's faults, but as an example, it did electrify the ECML and build 31 new train sets for 306m, which even in todays money would be less than ^1B.   

Yes, it is a shame BR had not done more. The GWML could have been modernised/electrified!

Everything seems too expensive these days.

To put up a sign, you need to wait ages for permission, then the actual sign and its putting up costs about ^1 billion. Then it needs to be checked with health and safety........