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All across the Great Western territory => Across the West => Topic started by: ChrisB on August 01, 2014, 10:34:53 am



Title: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: ChrisB on August 01, 2014, 10:34:53 am
FGW have issued this (https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/About-Us/Media-Centre/2014/July/First-Great-Western-to-remove-quiet-carriages) in response to a Daily Fail article.....

Quote
First Great Western's future plans for quiet carriages
Thursday 31st July 2014

First Great Western has this morning hit back at claims it is removing Quiet Carriages from all its trains (Daily Mail, 31-7-14, p15).

 A First Great Western spokesman said: "There will be a quiet carriage on all our High Speed Trains for the foreseeable future. Claims that there will be no solace for customers who want a quieter journey are simply unfounded."

 The Mail appears to have confused First Great Western with CrossCountry trains, who issued a press release last week, saying they were removing Quiet Carriages completely from their trains.

 It is true, however, that First Great Western's First Class Quiet Carriage will go when the company redesigns its First Class carriages in the coming months.
 The company is converting some First Class carriages into Standard carriages on all its long distance trains, which will only leave one and a half First Class carriages.


To make one of those carriages 'quiet' would be madness, but it is a practical decision based on the need to increase the number of standard seats on our services. The renewed First Class carriages will instead be fitted with specially designed headrests and partition screens to keep noise levels to a minimum.

 The changes are happening as part of a range of investments on its High Speed Trains for customers worth more than ^13 million currently taking place. These include 3,000 additional standard class seats with more tables for customers and free Wifi from early 2015


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 01, 2014, 10:49:14 am
IMHO it's a complete non-issue.

No-one likes a quiet life more than me but it's unenforceable and we are living in 2014 when communication on the move via mobile phones is a fact of life......

Loud music is a different matter but with modern headphones virtually eradicated.

Some people think "quiet" means "silent" unfortunately and that simply isn't going to happen.

There will always be inconsiderate people who bawl into their phone and equally noisy children, but unless FGW have a firm policy and means of ejecting these people from Quiet carriages it's a waste of time, and I can imagine the Police's reaction to getting a call from a station saying "we want you to remove this man because he was talking loudly"  ::)


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: ChrisB on August 01, 2014, 11:07:42 am
First thing all TOCs could do is to exclude children from Quiet carriages. It is unfair to expect them to be able to keep quiet, especially on long journeys


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: paul7755 on August 01, 2014, 11:21:18 am
Something weird about the Daily Fail using a photo of an SWT 444 to illustrate the story - then captioning the relatively large picture "Despite some train operators axing quiet carriages, South West Trains are unaffected by the move".  Couldn't they find a XC or FGW picture?  Why mention SWT at all...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2706201/End-line-quiet-carriages-trains-Rail-operators-axe-designated-areas-cause-rows-passengers.html

Wonder if that was why one of the BBC local radio stations (Surrey I think it was) was suckered into doing a story about SWT scrapping quiet carriages?

Paul


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: bobm on August 01, 2014, 11:26:30 am
First thing all TOCs could do is to exclude children from Quiet carriages. It is unfair to expect them to be able to keep quiet, especially on long journeys

I'd certainly second that.  I also agree having a carriage as quiet as the libraries of my youth is never going to happen.  I can cope with people talking at a moderate volume on their phone.  I can cope with the occasional set of leaky headphones.  What I struggle with is people who insist on chatting with their mates at a loud volume and frequently interspersed with "industrial language" - that doesn't need a quiet carriage, that is covered by other byelaws.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: ChrisB on August 01, 2014, 11:45:10 am
quiet conversation I'm fine with. leaky headphones & phone calls, I'm not. And that's why it's a 'Quiet' carriage, not a 'silent' carriage.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 01, 2014, 12:43:22 pm
First thing all TOCs could do is to exclude children from Quiet carriages. It is unfair to expect them to be able to keep quiet, especially on long journeys

I'd certainly second that.  I also agree having a carriage as quiet as the libraries of my youth is never going to happen.  I can cope with people talking at a moderate volume on their phone.  I can cope with the occasional set of leaky headphones.  What I struggle with is people who insist on chatting with their mates at a loud volume and frequently interspersed with "industrial language" - that doesn't need a quiet carriage, that is covered by other byelaws.

In the not so distant past wasn't there a "family carriage"? - maybe that would be a solution to keeping children away? .............or maybe a "party carriage" where all those who wished to make a racket could congregate?  :D


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: NickB on August 01, 2014, 03:22:07 pm
"no phones, no kids' is a simple enough rule and is enforceable.
The idea of wanting peace and quiet, either to work or sleep, is not "madness" though. Just as the modern age requires people to stay in touch by phone, so the usage of trains for quiet working or resting has also increased. And whilst my sleeping disturbs no-one, one donut with a phone wrecks a whole carriage.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: Alan Pettitt on August 01, 2014, 04:01:39 pm
Sometimes I do wonder why some people bother with a phone at all; I am sure that their communicants are able to hear them without any electrical intervention.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: Andrew1939 from West Oxon on August 01, 2014, 04:24:49 pm
With free Wi-Fi coming to FGW HSTs, more people in the quiet coach will be inclined to use their phone more. Is there some form of wired gauze that could be stuck on the windows of a quiet coach to stop phone signals coming in or out of the coach?
I remember from a few years ago returning from Paris on Eurostar and we were seated opposite a yank who started using his phone almost immediately after leaving Gare de Nord and only stopped when we went into the tunnel but then started again on the other side all the way back to London. The tunnel was a great relief but I understand that they are, or have, since put mobile phone facilities in the tunnel.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: Southern Stag on August 01, 2014, 04:53:04 pm
If people are just using the free Wi-Fi to browse the internet on their phone then it shouldn't be noisy. It's the same with texting. Sending a text or browsing the internet in the quiet carriage is fine in my opinion, provided you don't have irritating keypad sounds turned on on your phone.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 01, 2014, 05:34:07 pm
"no phones, no kids' is a simple enough rule and is enforceable.
The idea of wanting peace and quiet, either to work or sleep, is not "madness" though. Just as the modern age requires people to stay in touch by phone, so the usage of trains for quiet working or resting has also increased. And whilst my sleeping disturbs no-one, one donut with a phone wrecks a whole carriage.


So how would it be enforced? Would youngsters have to prove their age before being allowed in the "Quiet" carriage? Would the Train Manager be on the door denying entry to under 18s? Would he throw people out of the carriage? Split up families sitting together on a busy train?

Would he phone ahead to the next station so that the Police could be ready to remove a 15 and a half year old who had dared to sit in carriage A and was reluctant to move?

I'm sure all concerned have better things to do.

I think an element of realism needs to be injected - adults are more than capable of being just as noisy and irritating as children, especially after a few ales.........is a decibel limit going to be specified beyond which point you will be thrown out?

Trains were never designed to be contemplative retreats for misplaced Trappists, and the best that can be hoped for is for people to be considerate of others.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: chrisr_75 on August 01, 2014, 06:08:00 pm
"no phones, no kids' is a simple enough rule and is enforceable.
The idea of wanting peace and quiet, either to work or sleep, is not "madness" though. Just as the modern age requires people to stay in touch by phone, so the usage of trains for quiet working or resting has also increased. And whilst my sleeping disturbs no-one, one donut with a phone wrecks a whole carriage.


So how would it be enforced? Would youngsters have to prove their age before being allowed in the "Quiet" carriage? Would the Train Manager be on the door denying entry to under 18s? Would he throw people out of the carriage? Split up families sitting together on a busy train?

Would he phone ahead to the next station so that the Police could be ready to remove a 15 and a half year old who had dared to sit in carriage A and was reluctant to move?

I'm sure all concerned have better things to do.

I think an element of realism needs to be injected - adults are more than capable of being just as noisy and irritating as children, especially after a few ales.........is a decibel limit going to be specified beyond which point you will be thrown out?

Trains were never designed to be contemplative retreats for misplaced Trappists, and the best that can be hoped for is for people to be considerate of others.

How about a decibel meter which triggers an ejector seat at a predetermined critical peak value?! Could also allow deployment by the train manager for any other indiscretions!

However, sound insulation from exterior noise could be rather important...!!

Ok, crazy moment over  ;D ;D


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: Super Guard on August 01, 2014, 06:12:36 pm
"no phones, no kids' is a simple enough rule and is enforceable.
The idea of wanting peace and quiet, either to work or sleep, is not "madness" though. Just as the modern age requires people to stay in touch by phone, so the usage of trains for quiet working or resting has also increased. And whilst my sleeping disturbs no-one, one donut with a phone wrecks a whole carriage.


So how would it be enforced? Would youngsters have to prove their age before being allowed in the "Quiet" carriage? Would the Train Manager be on the door denying entry to under 18s? Would he throw people out of the carriage? Split up families sitting together on a busy train?

Would he phone ahead to the next station so that the Police could be ready to remove a 15 and a half year old who had dared to sit in carriage A and was reluctant to move?

I'm sure all concerned have better things to do.

I think an element of realism needs to be injected - adults are more than capable of being just as noisy and irritating as children, especially after a few ales.........is a decibel limit going to be specified beyond which point you will be thrown out?

Trains were never designed to be contemplative retreats for misplaced Trappists, and the best that can be hoped for is for people to be considerate of others.

How about a decibel meter which triggers an ejector seat at a predetermined critical peak value?! Could also allow deployment by the train manager for any other indiscretions!

However, sound insulation from exterior noise could be rather important...!!

Ok, crazy moment over  ;D ;D

We did once ask for tasers, but there was some H&S nonsense reason against it apparently  ;)


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: chrisr_75 on August 01, 2014, 06:32:54 pm
"no phones, no kids' is a simple enough rule and is enforceable.
The idea of wanting peace and quiet, either to work or sleep, is not "madness" though. Just as the modern age requires people to stay in touch by phone, so the usage of trains for quiet working or resting has also increased. And whilst my sleeping disturbs no-one, one donut with a phone wrecks a whole carriage.


So how would it be enforced? Would youngsters have to prove their age before being allowed in the "Quiet" carriage? Would the Train Manager be on the door denying entry to under 18s? Would he throw people out of the carriage? Split up families sitting together on a busy train?

Would he phone ahead to the next station so that the Police could be ready to remove a 15 and a half year old who had dared to sit in carriage A and was reluctant to move?

I'm sure all concerned have better things to do.

I think an element of realism needs to be injected - adults are more than capable of being just as noisy and irritating as children, especially after a few ales.........is a decibel limit going to be specified beyond which point you will be thrown out?

Trains were never designed to be contemplative retreats for misplaced Trappists, and the best that can be hoped for is for people to be considerate of others.

How about a decibel meter which triggers an ejector seat at a predetermined critical peak value?! Could also allow deployment by the train manager for any other indiscretions!

However, sound insulation from exterior noise could be rather important...!!

Ok, crazy moment over  ;D ;D

We did once ask for tasers, but there was some H&S nonsense reason against it apparently  ;)

Don't bother with the tasers, just go for a magnum 357 with an ak47 in the emergency kit in coach a, you'd not get any sh1t off anyone then!

It's quite late in the day on a Friday isn't it?!?  ;D


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: LiskeardRich on August 01, 2014, 08:08:52 pm
Yesterday morning an elderly lady waiting for a Crosscountry service was stood within earshot of me, having a massive moan at the platform staff (FGW staff) after he told her there would be no quiet coach on the service.
From her mannerism on the platform I don't think she should be anywhere near a quiet coach!


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: Oxonhutch on August 01, 2014, 08:43:30 pm
I have to say FGW that I do resent the snugger feel when I catch a 1.5 1st stock on the way into and out of PAD in the rush, but what I really miss is my 1st quiet coach.  I hate half telephone conversations - a couple of days ago, I swear someone was starting to divorce his wife by phone - it was awful.  Please FGW, give us premium season ticket purchasers our quiet zone back - we deserve better in this regard - thanks.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: John R on August 01, 2014, 10:42:49 pm
Quote from: NickB link=topic=14333.msg158594#msg158594 date=1406902927
[/quote

A plea - can we desist from the multiple quoting please - it gets tedious and makes viewing threads on a mobile rather difficult.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: LiskeardRich on August 01, 2014, 11:14:21 pm

And putting the quotes and square brackets in the right place ;) but yes I agree it is difficult on a mobile.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: Southern Stag on August 02, 2014, 03:23:10 am
I have to say FGW that I do resent the snugger feel when I catch a 1.5 1st stock on the way into and out of PAD in the rush, but what I really miss is my 1st quiet coach.  I hate half telephone conversations - a couple of days ago, I swear someone was starting to divorce his wife by phone - it was awful.  Please FGW, give us premium season ticket purchasers our quiet zone back - we deserve better in this regard - thanks.
To me the pertinent question appears to be, why would you want to hold such a conversation in earshot of others? I normally take any phone call in the vestibule, regardless of whether I'm in the quiet coach or not. I see it is much more polite, and it gives a little welcome privacy.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: stuving on August 02, 2014, 11:16:03 am
To me the pertinent question appears to be, why would you want to hold such a conversation in earshot of others?

I guess because they feel it would be impolite to their caller to say "I can't talk I'm on a train". The vestibule option may not be relevant or may not occur to them. And they may not be aware of how near other passengers are.

A case in point. I was on a mid-afternoon (so not at all full) HST at Paddington waiting to depart, I standard airline seating, when a guy a couple of rows back takes a call. I can't see him but can hear him clearly, even though he speaks quietly, as the train isn't moving. He says "I ought to tell you about ..." but that he can't as it's too public. But then he continues the call and starts anyway, describing a horrific attack on himself and another (dog, I think) by a group of dogs. He was badly mauled and rushed to hospital, which saved his life, and has been recovering for weeks.

His manner and language were restrained, but the nature of the event was so gory that I really did not want to hear about it at all. As soon as the train started I couldn't hear him. He probably couldn't see any other passengers from where he was sat, removing that reminder that he might be overheard.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: stuving on August 02, 2014, 03:18:18 pm
The FGW statement that triggered this thread was correcting a Mail article, both on Thursday 31st. What the Mail piece in the paper said I don't know; the on-line one doesn't say that and is dated 25th/corrected 26th. However, once a canard gets out it can land anywhere.

Janice Turner in today's Times says "First Great Western is abolishing quiet carriages in its high-speed trains, ...", and goes on to lament the lack of quietness in trains and almost everywhere else. You could argue she hasn't said "all quiet carriages", but not I think convincingly. You'd be echoing that beyond the Fringe Russel/Moore sketch if you did (but do you have some quiet carriages in your basket?).

Who'd want to do corporate PR, if even the Times can't be bothered to check a fact from two days ago?


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: BBM on August 02, 2014, 05:05:42 pm
Who'd want to do corporate PR, if even the Times can't be bothered to check a fact from two days ago?

Slightly OT but last Thursday the London Evening Standard introduced an otherwise positive article on European rail travel with a main picture and an opening paragraph on the infamous Paris Montparnasse train crash of 1895 which left a steam loco hanging out from the front of the station. Talk about lazy journalism!


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: grahame on April 19, 2019, 03:12:04 am
FGW have issued this (https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/About-Us/Media-Centre/2014/July/First-Great-Western-to-remove-quiet-carriages) in response to a Daily Fail article.....

Quote
First Great Western's future plans for quiet carriages
Thursday 31st July 2014

First Great Western has this morning hit back at claims it is removing Quiet Carriages from all its trains (Daily Mail, 31-7-14, p15).

 A First Great Western spokesman said: "There will be a quiet carriage on all our High Speed Trains for the foreseeable future. Claims that there will be no solace for customers who want a quieter journey are simply unfounded."

 ...

No quiet carriage in the IETs?  Quietly gone - unlike the loss of the buffet which has raised a few (!) criticisms


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: Timmer on April 19, 2019, 06:54:47 am
I guess because it wasn’t always respected. It only takes one anti-social individual be it in Std or 1st and the carriage is no longer quiet.

A good idea but not easy to enforce in the day and age of a lack of respect for rules.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: bobm on April 19, 2019, 07:30:15 am
This suggests the quiet carriage still exists

https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/seating-plans/intercity-express-train-9-carriage-seating-plan.pdf?la=en (https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/seating-plans/intercity-express-train-9-carriage-seating-plan.pdf?la=en)


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 19, 2019, 07:45:33 am
I guess because it wasn’t always respected. It only takes one anti-social individual be it in Std or 1st and the carriage is no longer quiet.

A good idea but not easy to enforce in the day and age of a lack of respect for rules.

In my experience polite peer pressure enforces it quite effectively where necessary.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: phile on April 19, 2019, 09:44:16 am
The quiet carriage still exists on IETs but identified by very small and difficult to see notices and missed by people.  DFT design again !!!!    Following daily complaints by passengers, some of whom had deliberately booked seats in this carriage, of excessive noise usually in the form of people talking on phones, more prominent notices are now being exhibited.    Tweets to GWR all the time and GWR confirming this fact but it has taken a year to do now and still counting.    Unfortunately, due to the IET contract with DFT and Hitachi (Agility Trains) the work has to be done by Hitachi with GWR having no authority to do so.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: didcotdean on April 19, 2019, 09:50:44 am
There isn't one on a 5-carriage set though. Even when doubled up.


Title: Re: FGW Statement on Quiet Carriages
Post by: bobm on April 19, 2019, 09:59:59 am
The quiet carriage still exists on IETs but identified by very small and difficult to see notices and missed by people.  DFT design again !!!!   

The same signage problems applied to identifying the bike spaces and, I think, the disabled accommodation on the outside of the trains.



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