Great Western Coffee Shop

Grand Central have gone public with their anticipated change to wholly 180 operation.   They are taking on FGW's 5 units from 2017, and it is implied they're  ditching their 3 short HSTs.


Paul

By which time FGW *should* have the IEP trains in service which will take over from the 180's on the Cotswolds. 
The current 180s cost FGW a fortune just to keep serviceable. 

The latest issue of RAIL magazine reports five Adelantes are to leave Great Western and go to Grand Central in 2017. Presumably these are units currently utilised on the Cotswold Line services. After they've gone does anybody have any idea what will take their place on Worcester/Hereford services from Paddington?

IEPs will take over Cotswold line services.

Specifically bi-modes

Which (for Great Western) are currently all planned to be just 5-car, and will be replacing the IC125s on the Cotswolds not just the 180s.

On page 240 of the Western Route Study Draft f October 2014 or Consultation, in Appendix B
Rolling stock assumptions it lists the bimodes as:

Name	Class	Description	Assumed capacity	Location/service assumed to operate in 2019 ITSS
10-car bi-mode IEP	SET	Super Express Train - two Electric Multiple Units with five carriages fitted with diesel engines to operate on routes without electrification coupled together to form a train with ten carriages	Seats: 630 Seats + standing: 756	Hereford via Oxford to London Paddington, Cheltenham via Kemble to London Paddington

AFAIK, that's always been the party line - 10-car trains that can run half-length out of the peak if you are sure they won't get to full.

Of course you may still suspect there won't be enough 10-car trains. And you may also wonder how well they will serve short platforms.

Could this be added to the thread already started a few days ago in the Cotswold lines section?

Is this strictly relevant to the simple matter of the 180s leaving the franchise?   Or do you have to go on about IEPs not being long enough in every possible rolling stock thread?

Why will a 5 car IEP be any worse than a 5 car 180?

Paul

The problem is when a 5 car replaces a HST in the rush hours

But that isn't a problem that will necessarily increase due to the transfer of the 180s elsewhere is it?

Paul

It won't - see above from the Western Route Study...2 x5cars in the peaks.

Mods - can we shorten Western Route Study to WRS?

Yes: now done.  ;)


Yes - I'll add it to our 'acronyms and abbreviations' page.  :)

Back in the 60s when I was on the Southern it was easy we ran 1 Unit 4 car trains  off peak and 2 units 8 car ( 3 units 10 car on the South Eastern) in the peak. However, it did lead to lots of coupling and uncoupling and lots of units standing idle during the day.

Now we seem to have to thrash every unit all day every day so there are no spares for peak strengthening. This  leads to another dilemma how long do you make your base unit. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 maybe 6?

Do you have long units 8,9,10,11 possibly 12, For heavy peaks?

There is also the reluctance to have corridors between units so that when 2 or more are copuled togther you have in effect two or more trains for revenue collection etc.
 
In many cases, not allowing for growth, a single car 153 is enough on some lines Off Peak, whereas say on Cross Country even a 5 car Voyager can be packed in the so called off peak.

There seems to me no solution unless DfT can be convinced that it better to have some (more)  spares for strengthening, covering failures, specials etc, plus meaning the rest of the fleet has to be less intensively used.

Plus any unit should be able to couple and work in multiple with any other unit and have corridor connections.

Too expensive? Not in the long term. unit reliability increases with less intensive use, more people get seats in the peak and hopefully continue using the train, passenger growth can be catered for, units will have universal coverage so you won't have the problem of 165s movng to Britol and being incoompatible with 15Xs

Is it strictly relevant? No, I suppose not, fair point. A 5-car IEP probably has more pluses than a 180, but the Cotswolds line is not soley worked by 180s. To keep myself from wandering further off-topic, I have added some detail and replied to some of the IEP-related comments here (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10150.msg163440#msg163440).