Great Western Coffee Shop

Ian Walmsley wrote in Septembers Modern Railways an article called "Yorkshire Tripe" referring to their use on the Leeds Harrogate trains.

Thoughts?

Looks like the consensus is "go for it ..."  ;D

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14985.msg166535#msg166535

Bristol - Keynsham - Saltford - Oldfield Park - Bath Spa - Batheaston (pause in loop to let 800 pass) - Box - Corsham - Chippenham (reverse in platform 0) - Melksham - Holt New Town - Bradford-on-Avon - Avoncliff - Freshford - Limpley Stoke - Batheaston - Bath Spa - Oldfield Park - Saltford - Keynsham - Bristol

Roger Ford doubts the robustness of a highly stressed engine in rail use with constant cycle of acceleration and idiling.

Roger Ford doubts the robustness of a highly stressed engine in rail use with constant cycle of acceleration and idiling.

Given his early career was spent at English Electric I don't think you should assume that he writes from a position of ignorance on the subject.


Ford trained as a mechanical engineer with English Electric at Rugby, specialising in prime movers, and on qualification joined the head office of the company^s Traction Division. While at English Electric Traction he was seconded to the Maintenance Division, spending time at Finsbury Park and Stratford locomotive depots.
(source - Wikipedia)

A rolling stock engineering firm says it has reached agreement with Transport for London to purchase surplus District Line trains, with the intention of converting them to diesel power so they can replace ageing and unpopular Pacer and Sprinter units running on many provincial lines in Britain, writes John W E Helm.

I think that the Vivarail proposed D-Train might have a chance, but only if they can bring this to market quickly.

I think the biggest enemy of Vivarail is not their proposed technology, but time.

We're seeing a massive programme of electrification. Network Rail in their Route Studies are now outlining possible future electrification projects beyond 2019. In the next five years we are going to see a large surplus of DMU stock from the Transpennie, Thames Valley, North West, Electric Spine and Central Scotland electrification schemes.

So the D-Train will be competing against tried and tested rolling stock. Some of it (in the case of the 185s) barely a decade old.

The cost of conversion will need to be low. The leasing companies will expect a Section 54 Undertaking to spend any money financing the D-Train, and will the DfT really be in the mood for this?

Well there are currently 156 Pacers in service. So even with a large cascade and electrification there might be a need for the D-Train.

For it to work, they'll need to be able to do the conversions sooner rather than later, and the cost needs to have as short a pay back period as possible.

I think that the logic is as follows:

The lease cost per annum of a rail passenger carriage is in the range ^75k - ^150k of which about 1/3 is for capital - the rest being heavy maintenance. Thus the "rent" proper is ^25k - ^50k. If you could get this for ten years, after interest the capital value (NPV) would be ^200k - ^400k. You can buy a seviceable but scrap carriage for ^5k - ^10k. As this would be a bogie vehicle it would have a value towards the higher end. Put in ^100k  per car and you double your money or more.

Good luck to Adrian Shooter and Vivarail.

The figures are around if anyone wants to check.

OTC

Sorry, I digress. D stock with strap on Diesels on the national network? No thanks.

Say what you like about mpg, but spending a Sunday under the bonnet of a BMC Mini, referring back and forth to a Haynes Manual, is far more enjoyable than T-cutting a Nissan Micra.

Budget airlines operating in the UK - I shall not name whom I have in mind, but one came from Ireland, and the other is easy to guess - began operations with basically hand-me-down Boeing 737s. They now use the latest Airbus models......

easyJet exclusively use Airbus planes, Ryanair exclusively use Boeing planes. By sticking to one manufacturer their maintenance costs are lower apparently.

Retired carriages from the District Line, which runs from Ealing Broadway in west London to Upminster in the east, are being redeveloped for rural lines up north. Enough cars for 75 two or three-car diesel trains are being taken to Vivarail^s depot in Long Marston, Warwickshire for redevelopment before being sold on. With a maximum speed of 60mph the carriages are perfect for slower routes with many stops rather than the faster inter-city links.

They will be fitted with four 200hp Ford 3.2L Duratorq TDCi engines that are normally seen in Ford Rangers and Transit vans. It is hoped they will be approved to run on National Rail tracks by mid-Autumn.

The carriages are already designed to cope with the busy London Underground at rush hour, which is ideal for commuter services or to ^move a lot of people for football matches^. Others, however, will be completely redeveloped with more conventional high-quality seats.

^These will be some of the greenest trains because they are lightweight and use a lot less fuel,^ Mr Shooter said. ^They are ideal for rural areas and some commuter routes like Manchester or Leeds. They can perform better, faster and greener than normal diesel trains. ^These are basically new trains that are affordable because we have reused some components.^

Mr Shooter, who was awarded a CBE for his services to the railway, is already talking to several customers including the Northern franchise.

It also means that flight crew don't have to be certificated for two types of aircraft.

New northern rail franchises 'must scrap Pacer trains'

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/81278000/jpg/_81278923_80828740.jpg)
The Pacer trains were introduced in the 1980s and were supposed to be a short-term solution

The government has confirmed it wants to scrap the 30-year-old Pacer trains on railways in northern England.

Companies bidding for the government's new rail franchises in the North will be required to replace them by 2020, the Department For Transport said.

Northern and TransPennine bidders will have to add 200 new train services daily and accommodate 19,000 extra Manchester commuters.

Built in the 1980s, Pacers were intended for short-term use.

Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said: "Pacers have had their day, they are not suitable for modern commuting. There was a bit of pressure on us not to push this forward because people were arguing the financing did not match up, we have decided we are going ahead."

But Mick Cash, general secretary of the RMT transport union, said: "Any new trains are light years away with passengers forced to endure the misery of the clapped-out Pacers, and the ancient London Underground rolling stock that's heading north, way off into the future. The tender documents allow bidders to axe guards and move to driver-only operation, compromising safety in the interests of private profit."

Shadow transport secretary Michael Dugher added: "If we had a new piece of rolling stock for every time ministers 'announced' the end of the Pacer trains, the network would be full of shiny new carriages."

The Pacer trains would contravene disability discrimination legislation from 2020.

The transport select committee is meeting next month to take evidence from Mr McLoughlin to examine the specification for the Northern and TransPennine Express franchises and question him on the future of Pacer trains currently in use in Wales and the south-west.

The chairman of the committee, Liverpool Riverside MP Louise Ellman, said: "It is unacceptable that Pacer trains - built in the mid-1980s and of questionable safety - are still in use on busy rail lines."

Resembling the body of a bus with train wheels bolted on, Pacers are still being used on the railways across the north of England even though they were supposed to be a temporary solution to a rolling stock shortage.

It was thought the trains would have a 20-year lifespan but they currently run on routes in Greater Manchester, Merseyside, Lancashire, Cheshire, Yorkshire, Teesside, Northumberland and Cumbria.

Prime Minister David Cameron signalled in November that the Government was considering scrapping Pacers.

The Northern franchise operates local, commuter and rural services and long-distance services linking major cities and towns such as Leeds, Sheffield, Nottingham, York, Manchester, Bradford, Preston and Blackpool.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/81113000/jpg/_81113350_train2.jpg)
One company is offering converted London Underground trains to the franchise bidders

The TransPeninne Express (TPE) franchise provides longer-distance intercity-type services, connecting Newcastle, Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester, Hull, Liverpool, Edinburgh and Glasgow, as well as Manchester Airport.

Companies shortlisted to run the new franchises were announced in August. Competing for Northern are Arriva, Govia and Abellio, while on the shortlist for TPE are FirstGroup, Keolis/Go Ahead and Stagecoach.

Firm Vivarail is in talks with some of the operators competing for the franchises, offering them the use of converted London Underground trains.

I started a sceptic but think it could be goer.

Only one coach, but very quite reasonable ride considering it was basically a siding

I always thought the D78 stock had one of the more pleasing ride qualities of the LUL assortment - pretty smooth even on poor track, but with a rather satisfying solidity, in much the same way as a MK3 coach - so I'm not surprised it seemed pretty decent, assuming they've not messed about with the suspension too much?

If it works, it's an excellent use of a fleet with a lot of (structural) life left in it and one which has recently been the subject of some considerable tidying up. As long as performance & reliability are ok, I think they'd be a big improvement over the dreadful 'Pacers' many of us have to endure! Good luck to them!

I wonder if they might be suited to the Looe branch or even St Ives?

Class 230 in the metal
Informed Sources Fourth Law commands ^When in doubt build a demonstrator^. While it is easy to rubbish a concept, something in the metal demands objective criticism.

During August Mr Walmsley and I were among the 195 guests who visited the Quinton Rail Technology Centre to examine Vivarail^s first conversion of a D78 Tube Stock vehicle into a Class 230 Diesel Electric Multiple Unit and have a ride on the test track. In ^Pan Up^ Ian has covered ambience and the market while I provide the technical description.

Introducing the Vivarail project in the December 2014 column, I admitted to being in a quandary. On the one hand a rival D78 stock conversion seemed a complete non-starter. On the other hand, at Vivarail Adrian Shooter had assembled a team of engineers for whom I have the highest regard.

So I wrote a technical description of Vivarail^s proposal, expressed some reservations over the practicality of the underfloor Ford automotive engines and reserved further comment until I could see the D-Train in the metal. Some readers were less charitable and asked why I hadn^t said what I really thought of the concept.

For our test run we bimbled around the Quinton track reaching a maximum speed of 30-35 mile/h. The five cylinder engines purring away under the floor were less noticeable than, say, a Cummins in a Meridian. When we started power pick-up was smooth and vibration free and the ride was agreed by my fellow travellers to be better than a Pacer (not difficult). You can find the sound level measurements in Mr Walmsley^s column.

Engineering
However, my main interest was in the workshop where conversion of the other two vehicles for the demonstration unit was advanced. With the second powered vehicle up on stands it was possible examine the underfloor equipment layout and the column has an illustrated guide to what goes where and how.

There was one disappointment. It was not possible to look inside one of the engine modules produced by Revolve Technologies. However, Vivarail subsequently provided a photograph, which gives an indication of the packaging.

Early criticism of the Vivarail project focused on the lack of crashworthiness of the cab ends. But from inside the cab the safety cage is massive and has been beefed up following the crash test. Mr Walmsley reckons protection is superior to a Pacer and could even be better than the Class 150 front end.

Spend.
So far Vivarail has spent around ^4million on the project and it shows in the quality of the engineering. Based on the capital rental figures provided by Vivarail I estimate the cost of a converted Class 230 vehicle at around ^800,000, roughly half the price of a putative new DMU.

Certification of the demonstrator three car Class 230 is scheduled by the end of this year. Testing in passenger service will follow ^in the new year^, initially on the Plymouth-Gunnislake branch fulfilling a requirement in the First Great Western Direct Award franchise agreement.

This has exposed some interesting internal DfT politics. Rail Minister Claire Perry, who is clearly not a Vivarail fan, claimed in a recent written answer that the obligation in the FGW franchise agreement covers only an initial feasibility study. According to Claire, the franchise agreement makes clear that any proposals for a trial that might derive from that report would be subject to a separate decision by the Secretary of State and would be subject to initial examination confirming likely viability.

Well, FGW inspected the first vehicle back in July and has begun planning for the trial. So it looks as though ^likely viability^ has been confirmed and someone in New Minster House has given the go ahead. As ever, is it Claire or the civil servant who drafted the reply the one out of the loop?

I look forward to a trial trip on the Gunnislake branch in the new year.  Hope its better than the Pacer demonstrator that ran on there back in the 1980s ::) :P

You mean the one that coudn't cope with the tight curves IIRC  :D  ;D

You may find the following 9 minute video interesting - it's the 230 doing a circuit of their test track, accelerating up to the maximum linespeed (around 30mph IIRC) around 6mins in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNmRi6cDNY8

It certainly doesn't seem appreciably different or noisier than conventional D Stock at those speeds, with the traction motors the predominant sound.

As a grumpy middle aged git, it amazes me that the likes of Apple and Google allow people to take videos in portrait mode.

Don't look at this video (https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/scotland/752644/video-heart-warming-moment-man-proposes-girlfriend-train-whole-carriage-erupts-song/) then.   For the rest of you, it's heart-warming ... enjoy!

These are going to be operating on the Coventry to Nuneaton line for 12 months later this year, so no visits to GWR territory.
Further details here http://www.vivarail.co.uk/class-230-to-enter-passenger-service-this-year/ (http://www.vivarail.co.uk/class-230-to-enter-passenger-service-this-year/)

This strikes me as a very good move - not too far from Long Marston so Vivarail can be close at hand.  I'll go up for a trip when they start.

D-Train hire will cost just £500 a day, says West Midlands

02 September 2016
 
West midlands Combined Authority has revealed details of the financial deal that will see a former London Underground train trialled on the Coventry-Nuneaton line, the first passenger-carrying trial of the vehicles.

The Class 230 ‘D-Train’ has been developed by Vivarail using refurbished London Underground District Line surface stock built in the 1980s.

oh no.....hopefully a set back that can be overcome

Class 230 incident
30th December 2016

Whilst undertaking a test run today a fire started in one of the detachable engine modules on one of the power cars. There were no passengers on the train and Vivarail staff were able to get off the train without a problem. This has now been extinguished by the Fire Service and the train is being prepared to move back to Tyseley. Until it is possible to access the engine module the cause of the fire can not be determined. A thorough investigation will take place in conjunction with the Railway Accident Investigation Bureau and whatever steps necessary will be undertaken. Vivarail regrets that this means the planned trial on the Coventry to Nuneaton line will be postponed. Further information will be provided when available.

A train is on fire this afternoon - with three carriages already destroyed in the blaze

"The media could not be played" - removed already?

Firefighters had to rescue 10 people from a train carriage after it burst into flames.

From the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4076618/Ten-passengers-rescued-emergency-services-train-burst-flames-tested-tracks-Kenilworth.html)


... sounds rather more serious from this report than others  ;)

'This is a new train, it has only done a few miles

From the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4076618/Ten-passengers-rescued-emergency-services-train-burst-flames-tested-tracks-Kenilworth.html)


... sounds rather more serious from this report than others  ;)

So imagine: (ok so it circumstantial however...) a 12 car train being run without an OBS as Southern say they would do this in "Exceptional Circumstances" and the terrifying prospect of this happening ...This is another example of things being done on the cheap....A Private Company purchasing old LU rolling stock in the hope of selling/leasing them on

This was published on the WNXX Forum (as a copy of a news release from Vivarail):

Rather ironically it looks like it was the first train to stop at Kenilworth's new station!

Hopefully just a set back rather than the end of the project.

Serious - but hardly destroyed!

A lick of paint should suffice.

Rail passengers stranded in London after East Midlands Train catches fire

Rail passengers were left stranded on a train in north London after it caught fire soon after leaving St Pancras.

Travellers on an East Midlands Trains service from London to Nottingham were stuck as the train broke down in Cricklewood soon after it departed at around 12.15pm on Saturday.

The blaze broke out a under one of the train's power cars following a "technical issue" which has caused significant delays for passengers.

Those on the train told how they were left stranded for more than an hour before they left the train.

Katie Calderwood told the Standard: “The train stopped mid-track in Cricklewood and we are waiting for an engineer to come from London.

[snip]

A spokeswoman for East Midlands Trains said: "The 12.15pm St Pancras to Nottingham service was delayed due to a technical issue which occurred near Cricklewood and resulted in a small fire underneath one of the train's power cars.

"The power cars do not hold any passengers and, as the fire was extinguished very quickly by the driver, there was no immediate safety risk to customers on the train.

Would the RAIB really be that interested?  Nobody was hurt, and the unit was on trial.  I'd have thought at most they would have asked to be kept informed as to what was the cause and what modifications are proposed to address the failure.  ...

Rather ironically it looks like it was the first train to stop at Kenilworth's new station!

The opening of Kenilworth’s railway station has been delayed until December 2017

I did wonder whether there might be some required fire protection system not fitted to these trains as prototypes. That might interest RAIB, along with the rules/principle for allowing prototype or test stock on the network. However, the only thing required on all diesels on trains is fire detection. Fire suppression is required by the TSI only on goods locomotives.

In addition to the GU, other components installed under the floor of drive cars include the traction converter, fuel tank, fire protection system, and brake system. An automatic fire-fighting system is installed to deal with fires in the top part of the engine. This system is designed to quickly extinguish any fire by using high-pressure nitrogen gas to spray it with water.

How very sensible! In terms of the overall cost, it has to be worth it. Although fire extinguishers are like insurance - you buy it hoping you never use it.

Mind you, sticking one on the wall in the garage or kitchen is a lot less hassle than carting it around the countryside all day every day and checking its water and gas every night.

Following a fire aboard the prototype Vivarail D-Train at Kenilworth on December 30, the planned trial with London Midland has been cancelled.

The eight-month trial that was due to begin next month on the Coventry-Nuneaton line, during which 230001 was to be pressed into revenue-earning service for the first time with London Midland. This is because the D-Train was undergoing final testing and had yet to receive its safety certification when it caught fire.

In a joint statement, trial sponsors Coventry City Council, Coventry and Warwickshire Local Enterprise Partnership, London Midland, Warwickshire County Council and the West Midlands Combined Authority said on January 9 that the likely delay in receiving certification meant that “there is no longer enough time to run and evaluate a pilot service using these trains before the next local rail franchise starts in October”.

This has gone from "A couple more runs, then start loading passengers" to "Cancelled" in the wink of an eye. There has been no attempt to give a window for further testing. Given the need for transport, this is being taken more seriously by the Powers That Be than meets the eye. Would that have been the case had there been an automatic fire suppression system on board?  (A propos which, it wouldn't have been water based, would it?)

Thanks folks, for the education. I see now that water is more appropriate - presumably to get rid of the heat rather than starve oxygen? Gas is for confined spaces, like jet engine nascelles, where HFCs replaced Halon some 20 years ago.

Dry powder (commonly baking soda) is of course excluding oxygen in a sense, but by creating its CO₂ locally. Good for small fires, and it does stick to surfaces. I've used a very small one on a chip-fryer in a neighbour's house, and it worked but was rather messy. Mind you he still thanked me, for obvious reasons, despite an off-duty fireman turning up and demonstrating how to do it with just wet cloths and no extra mess to clean up.

A photograph of the burnt out engine can be found here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2TG-13XAAEknjk?format=jpg&name=large

That looks like the remains of a Ford Transit Diesel engine to me .

I think it makes fairly sorry reading, in terms of all the things that went wrong, not only with the engine and subsequent fire, but unrelated faults that transpired in the aftermath.  It does call into question the rigour of the development in my mind.  On the plus side, they have found several things that are likely to have caused the fire, so to that end they know what actions they can take to reduce the likelihood of a reoccurrence.

That's why one builds prototypes.

But if you read the report in full you will find some howlers that should never have been allowed to happen, even in a prototype. Such as the plastic pipe which was clearly the wrong standard for the job it was doing. That feels more like engineering incompetence, and I'd concur with the comment that RT appear to have been out of their depth.

Power to weight ratios are (kW/t): electric 7.1, diesel 2.9, heritage DMU: 2.7 (1 motor car, 80% transmission).

Sadly, Portishead is shown on the map that accompanies the article - sadly because it needs heavy trains to run to Parkway, Bath, Severn Beach etc.

Vivarail: D-Trains now ready for sale

Vivarail has announced that its first two production D-Trains are ready for sale, with delivery likely to be completed in early 2018.

The trains can be built and delivered ahead of the forecast schedule due to increased production capacity as Vivarail scale up for 2017 and beyond.

Preparation for construction is already underway at the Quinton Rail Technology Centre. The carriages can be supplied as either two or three car units with or without UAT.

Would the VivaRail units be suitable for the Isle of Wight? I don't know what the gauge limits on IoW are, previously they have used old Underground (deep level?) stock. Presumably there will have to thoughts of some sort of replacement for the existing rolling stock, whoever is going to pay for it. I believe the idea is to move towards a community rail set-up.

Would the VivaRail units be suitable for the Isle of Wight? I don't know what the gauge limits on IoW are, previously they have used old Underground (deep level?) stock. Presumably there will have to thoughts of some sort of replacement for the existing rolling stock, whoever is going to pay for it. I believe the idea is to move towards a community rail set-up.

Raising the Ryde tunnel track may have made sense in the milder 1960's but the floods of 2010 and 2014 filled the tunnel half way and then fully, rendering the loss of clearance of little value.

Don't think there's been an official announcement yet, but being widely rumoured that three Class 230s will be used on Bedford to Bletchley services from December 2018 as part of the rolling stock plan form the new West Midlands Franchise.

(http://vivarail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/230002-in-production-BEN-JONES_preview-2-232x300.jpeg)Photo credit: Ben Jones
230002 nearing completion in Vivarail’s main workshop.  This 2-car train is the first production battery unit in the UK and will be in passenger service by the summer.  The train is powered by 2 lithium ion batteries per car (4 in total) and has a range of 40 miles.

Battery trains are not new but battery technology is – and Vivarail is leading the way in new and innovative ways to bring them into service.  230002 has a total of 4 battery rafts each with a capacity of 106 kWh and requires an 8 minute charge at each end of the journey. With a 10 minute charge this range is extended to 50 miles and battery technology is developing all the time so these distances will increase.

The train can be charged through existing infrastructure – OHL or 3rd rail – and for non-electrified lines Vivarail has developed a static battery bank as an alternative. In each case the train is charged automatically through a patented Automatic Charging Point.  This is a simple and elegant design that will allow battery trains to replace diesel units with a minimum of time and effort.
...

Would Bedford - Bletchley be in range?  That was/is supposed to be getting 3 x 230s according to earlier plans by the new TOC?  I had assumed they’d be diesel though...

Paul

I think that plan went up in smoke, since diesel 230s will no longer be available in time for the new franchise. And it's not 3rd rail territory, is it?

I hadn't realised that Vivarail had moved to battery power. Robert Llewellyn (Kryten from Red Dwarf) took a look at the new train in a video posted in November 2017. The train shown also has a diesel generator as well as a battery. The purpose wasn't fully explained so I don't know if it was there just during development or whether it will appear in the production models.

https://youtu.be/9s4heZe7ChM

There were various stock plans floating around ... a chance meeting with one of the key people involved in stock resourcing as one franchise moved to another would suggest that the was not completeness or certainly in any of the plans ...

The team at Vivarail are an enthusiastic and dedicated bunch and they and our hosts wmtrains made us very welcome.

Our units will have 6 to 8 full width tables with a remainder of airline and tip up style seats to enable bicycle storage. There will also be shared space which can be used for cycles buggies and wheelchairs total 108 seats. We emphasised the need for luggage space and bins for waste; the location of these is still to be decided. We also confirmed the need for onboard ramps which had been missed. Trains will have anti slip protection, sanders and drive through all bogie wheels.

And as for their charging points, if they need to be installed in several stations in less than six months, with their feed at 11 kV or more ... sound likely?

Doesn't sound at all likely. That means you would be limited to a trial involving a branch line of a length that would match the capacity of the batteries and fit the kit in just one station. You could do that at Temple Meads for the Severn Beach line (26 miles the round trip) but you reduce that to a shuttle service and spoil the diagrams that extend beyond BRI.

Charging only at stations should be doable.
I doubt that an 11KV supply would be needed for these relatively short range and lightweight units.
A 3 phase 100 amp supply at 230/400* volts should do. After losses that would be about 70KW* into the battery.

A short length of conductor rail would be the obvious means of charging. Although the health and safety industry are opposed to new conductor rail installations, this could be made much safer by only energising the rail when a train was either over it, or so close that being run over was the greater risk.

*presuming that the nominal 400 volt supply is in fact a bit higher than 400 volts, most are nearer 420 volts.

The charging point can draw power from existing infrastructure – it simply needs an electrical supply of 11kV or 33kV.

However if the supply is not strong enough then a static battery bank can be used instead to provide an energy reserve at the charging points.  Vivarail is spearheading this design for the rail industry but it is already used in other applications – such as motorway service area electric car charging.

More confirmed detail needed, in particular total battery capacity, and the capacity used per single or return trip.

I'm sure Vivarail, and Adrian Shooter - have checked out everything battery & charging-wise & are happy with their research & development. I certainly respect them & if they're happy I think we don't need to query this, especially until we have full facts which I'm sure will be available to anyone emailing & asking.

I prefer blind cynicism to blind faith.

Presumably this means an array of [stationary] batteries at the charging locations which are "trickle" charged continuously (or perhaps charged at night when electricity is cheaper).

Depending on electricity tariffs, the best option is probably a full charge each night from cheap off peak electricity, together with top up charging during the day from full price electricity.

The battery locomotives to which you refer probably had lead acid batteries that are not well suited to rapid charging.
Are you certain that you got them back with the SAME battery packs ? I consider it likely that the batteries were swapped for fully charged ones, with the depleted batteries being charged before the next swap.

Returning to the present, it is likely that the proposed  battery trains would not be designed for routine battery swaps.
If rapid swapping is required, then the vehicles would probably need redesigning.

I would rather Shooter & Co tried their alternative drives on the various EMU classes that seem to be coming off lease early in life such as the class 317- 322 family and even the Networkers.

OTC

Vivarail have finally confirmed the 3 x 230 conversions for Bedford - Bletchley this morning:
http://vivarail.co.uk/vivarail-supply-new-trains-marston-vale-line/

Paul

How are these powered? If that's a press release I'd expect them to be going OTT if it was a green, battery powered train.

About the D-Train

The D-Train is a cost-effective solution to the need for new rolling stock and is designed to keep both upfront and running costs to a minimum. The D-Train uses the best of modern technology and is specifically designed to appeal to passengers and operators alike. Innovative systems and high tech equipment, such as the advanced RCM system, ensure the trains are able to be customised to suit different route requirements.

The trains are designed to accept power modules which can be diesel, battery or, in the future, hydrogen fuel cells. Vivarail is leading the UK market in battery technology and will introduce its first production battery vehicle in Spring 2018 – fully approved and ready for passenger service.

The D-Train meets all current standards up to and including the 2020 PRM-TSI regulations.

3 x 2car diesel units

Vivarail has today announced that it has entered an agreement with West Midlands trains to build three new Class 230 D-Trains for the Marston Vale Line between Bedford and Bletchley.

West Midlands Trains is the first franchise to have made an order for the rolling stock, which are expected to get on track for operation in 2018.

The news follows a number of months where there was little word about the innovative battery-powered rolling stock, before the company announced in February that the first production train had entered its final build stage.

Vivarail’s CEO, Adrian Shooter, stated: “This is a big day for Vivarail. We have invested considerable time and money to bring our innovative D-Train to this point and we are delighted to be working with West Midlands Trains to introduce them into passenger service.
 
“As a West Midlands based company it will be extremely gratifying to see our trains running on local lines and we look forward to passenger feedback. Our trains will be built to the high standards West Midlands Trains has committed to and will provide the flagship service for the region.

[etc]

West Midlands Trains’ customer service director, Andrew Conroy, explained that the Class 230 would be “ideal” for the Bedford to Bletchley route.

“We are investing in almost £700m of new trains for our passengers,” he stated. “The class 230s will be the first of over 400 extra carriages we are adding to our network.

“I am sure our passengers will welcome the new look and feel of the carriages and the extra space.

“When the new trains come on stream in December we will also be adding extra early morning and late night services on the Marston Vale line Monday to Saturday.”

Alstom and Eversholt plan fuel cell EMUs
15 May 2018

(http://www.railwaygazette.com/typo3temp/_processed_/d/4/csm_tn_gb-greateranglia-class321-renatus_03_28aa6b911e.jpg)
UK: Plans to fit hydrogen fuel cells to redundant electric multiple units were announced by Alstom on May 14. Confirming that ‘hydrogen technologies and solutions will play a key role in our global vision for the future’, the manufacturer said it was working with rolling stock leasing company Eversholt Rail on what it calls ‘the first substantive industry response to the government's challenge to remove diesel rolling stock by 2040’.

Alstom and Eversholt Rail are looking to ‘upcycle’ Class 321 EMUs which will be rendered surplus to requirements following the delivery of a complete new rolling stock fleet for the Greater Anglia franchise over the next two years.

Described as ‘some of the best proven electric trains on the network’, the four-car Class 321s were built at the former British Rail Engineering Ltd works in York between 1988 and 1991. Eversholt had placed a contract in 2015 for Wabtec to refurbish 30 units under its Renatus programme, and to fit new three-phase traction equipment from Kiepe.

The trains would be fitted with hydrogen storage tanks and fuel cells similar to those used on Alstom’s prototype iLint multiple-unit now on test in Germany, for which series orders have already been placed.

'We think the potential long-term application of hydrogen in the UK is very significant’, said Nick Crossfield, Managing Director, Alstom UK & Ireland. ‘Less than 50% of the UK network is electrified. Starting with this conversion, we think hydrogen could offer the right zero carbon solution for many parts of the network.’

The delivery of Vivarail’s Class 230 trains for the Marston Vale Line is behind schedule due to “technical issues” and will not be ready for their planned December introduction.

West Midland Trains and Vivarail released a joint statement saying “both partners have worked tirelessly to bring the trains into service for the December timetable change as scheduled,” but technical issues with the first train had a knock-on effect on the rest, delaying the units.

The timetable is due to change on the Marston Vale Line between Bletchley and Bedford in December, with the route forming part of the future East-West Rail service between Oxford, Bedford and eventually Cambridge.

Vivarail said it was “disappointed” that the deadline could not be met and takes full responsibility for the delay, but said it was “confident the full fleet would be ready for service in the New Year.”

Adrian Shooter, CEO of Vivarail, said, “My experience in the rail industry means I am fully aware of the problems that can occur when introducing new trains and that one unforeseen event can easily overturn months or even years of planning.  That is the case here and at Vivarail we hold our hands up to that fact.  However, I am confident that my team will deliver the finished trains with a minimal delay and allow London Northwestern Railway to bring them into service soon.  I know that there is a great deal of anticipation to see the Class 230s in service and I am confident that the short wait will be worth it.”

I'm looking forward to travelling on one early next year then.  Their potential is massive - especially with the new propulsion systems in development - and I hope that the general consensus within this forum that they are a 'good thing' will be realised.

Vivarail and Hoppecke announce long-term supply of batteries for Class 230s

Dec 13, 2018

Vivarail and Hoppecke today confirmed that they will be working together to design and integrate batteries for Vivarail’s Class 230 trains.  The deal cements the relationship between the two companies for a long-term future in developing battery trains for the UK rail industry.

Vivarail launched the UK’s first passenger battery train in the last 50 years in October 2018.  The train carried hundreds of passengers over three days of service in Scotland – an event that was supported by Transport Scotland and ScotRail.

As well as demonstrating that battery trains are ready for service now, new data was collected that allowed Vivarail to assess and confirm performance data on a challenging route with many steep gradients.  The train was accompanied by its mobile charging unit which was used for a few hours each night to provide a day’s worth of charge.

A 3-car Class 230 can run for 65 miles between charges which means they are more than able to operate numerous routes throughout the UK, and active conversations are taking place with interested operators.  Battery trains enable emission-free rail travel in areas where electrification is either non- or only partially existent.  The trains are particularly suited to urban routes where authorities wish to eliminate pollution caused by traditional DMUs as well as scenic lines where the natural environment needs protecting.

With the stated desire of the Government to phase out diesel trains by 2040 Vivarail’s Class 230 is a next generation train already proven for today.  The 65 mile range exceeds the expectations of many and shows how Vivarail is leading the market with the only battery train available today in the UK.

Currently Vivarail is building a fleet of diesel/battery hybrids to operate the Wrexham-Bidston line for Transport for Wales, where the diesel gensets will be used to charge the batteries not to power the train.  This power variant gives the range of a diesel train, the performance of an EMU (with acceleration of 1m p/s/s up to 40 miles per hour) and combines it with emission-free travel.   As well as using the genset to charge the batteries the train also has regenerative braking – as do all the battery trains.

Designs for other types of hybrid trains exist including the use of existing OHL with a pantograph and transformer and 3rd rail with shoegear.  Additionally, a new hydrogen variant is being developed which, similarly to the diesel hybrid, will exceed the pure battery train’s range of 65 miles.

Hoppecke’s Lithium Ion batteries are ideally suited for the Class 230s by providing the rapid charging needed for battery trains. Simulations and performance data show that many non-electrified routes can be operated by the Class 230 battery trains and to make this possible in the short-term Vivarail has designed and patented an automatic charging system and battery bank.  This means that costs of both infrastructure upgrades and daily operation are hugely minimised – in some cases by millions of pounds.

A message purporting to be from the guard says there were no injuries ...

Good call on flagging the uncorroborated nature of that tweet.  Looking at the profile of the account on Twitter does nothing at all to confirm to me the credentials of that message writer and indeed leads me to share your extreme caution.

Vivarail has completed a demonstration of its fast charging system for Class 230 battery trains - https://www.railway-technology.com/news/vivarail-unveils-fast-charging-system-for-class-230-battery-trains/

Towards Realising Accelerated Innovation in Novel (TRAIN) Battery Technologies

Viva rail has produced a proof of concept hybrid train which has been shown to be reliable, energy efficient and cost effective. This work was self-funded and delivered in a very timely and effective way. The TRAIN project will be delivered in a similar way with close cooperation between the partners. Vivarail and our partners Petalite and Valence, provide lightweight versatile cost-effective rail solutions including units that can run as DMU (diesel multiple unit), EMU (electric multiple unit), battery, or battery hybrid depending on power supplies available. Battery technology will incorporate advances from other sectors.

The TRAIN project will develop innovative rapid charging technology and static energy storage to exploit low-rate cheap energy for high-rate charging. Two battery modules hang under each carriage and operate independently or in conjunction with other energy sources (electric). The solution provides significant operational savings, CO2 and noise reductions, and reduces maintenance demands to minimise out-of-service time.

This project will fully develop innovative designs and validate them for production. Outputs include: Modular battery pack to suit specific applications; Rapid charging unit operating at approximately 600V; Integration of hardware/software; Static charging evaluation; Test train with prototype technologies: Duty cycle demonstrations and performance assessment.