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All across the Great Western territory => Across the West => Topic started by: bobm on December 12, 2014, 09:04:04 pm



Title: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on December 12, 2014, 09:04:04 pm
Not been a good couple of nights for the sleepers.

On Thursday into Friday the Up sleeper needed fitters attention at Plymouth due to brake problems, having skipped stops in Cornwall.  It couldn't be fixed and was replaced an HST for the rest of the journey.  This meant one of the early services from Plymouth to London was cancelled.

The stock was worked on at Laira and left for London mid-afternoon but failed again shortly after leaving Plymouth and had to be hauled back to the depot.  Therefore tonight's service from London will be an HST. 

Meanwhile last night's down sleeper needed attention from the men with spanners in Devon due to brake problems but did make it to Cornwall with only a 10 minute delay.

I am using the sleepers twice in the next three weeks so that is bound to be a jinx!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 13, 2014, 09:20:52 am
Problems last night too - sounds like westbound ran with a normal HST set so no beds, and eastbound had mechanical problems and a pretty hefty delay.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Super Guard on December 14, 2014, 04:35:24 pm
Problems last night too - sounds like westbound ran with a normal HST set so no beds, and eastbound had mechanical problems and a pretty hefty delay.

Not been a good couple of nights for the sleepers.

On Thursday into Friday the Up sleeper needed fitters attention at Plymouth due to brake problems, having skipped stops in Cornwall.  It couldn't be fixed and was replaced an HST for the rest of the journey.  This meant one of the early services from Plymouth to London was cancelled.

The stock was worked on at Laira and left for London mid-afternoon but failed again shortly after leaving Plymouth and had to be hauled back to the depot.  Therefore tonight's service from London will be an HST. 

Meanwhile last night's down sleeper needed attention from the men with spanners in Devon due to brake problems but did make it to Cornwall with only a 10 minute delay.

I am using the sleepers twice in the next three weeks so that is bound to be a jinx!

57s... 57s... 57s...  :-\


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on December 15, 2014, 08:30:19 am
Problems again for the westbound sleeper early Monday morning.  The service came to a stand at Exeter St Thomas and had to be taken back to St Davids where it terminated.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on December 15, 2014, 07:17:27 pm
Problems again for the westbound sleeper early Monday morning.  The service came to a stand at Exeter St Thomas and had to be taken back to St Davids where it terminated.

The up is starting from Plymouth at 2355 tonight.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on December 15, 2014, 07:19:20 pm
Hauled by 2 Power Cars, I believe.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Timmer on December 15, 2014, 08:05:34 pm
They really do need to look at getting some new motive power for the sleeper service as this lack of realiabibity could do damage to the good reputation of the Night Riveria in the long term if not sorted soon.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 16, 2014, 05:54:17 am
They really do need to look at getting some new motive power for the sleeper service as this lack of realiabibity could do damage to the good reputation of the Night Riveria in the long term if not sorted soon.

Reliability seems to be a growing issue across all FGW services at the moment, there seems to be more cancellations/short formations due to "train faults" than ever before.......I've seen some pictures on Twitter of the sleeper at Plymouth last night with the 2 power cars - seems to have been more trainspotters than passengers on the platform! Quite an unusual sight I guess.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: thetrout on December 16, 2014, 06:26:52 am
Problems last night too - sounds like westbound ran with a normal HST set so no beds, and eastbound had mechanical problems and a pretty hefty delay.

On the brighter side... At least everyone on board could have had some form of lie in on a Monday Morning; D :D :P


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: The Tall Controller on December 16, 2014, 05:03:12 pm
More problems today. 57303 was declared a failiure at Long Rock upon arrival after working the down sleeper last night. Looking at fixing it in time for tonight's service.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on December 18, 2014, 07:09:21 am
Another issue last night.  The down sleeper experienced loco problems around Swindon.  However, perhaps anticipating difficulties, there was another loco on the back and that was run round to take the service forward.

It reached Taunton almost an hour late but recovered most of that time by Cornwall.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: old original on December 19, 2014, 04:30:40 pm
Again, last night (Thursday) the Penzance - Paddington sleeper failed at Taunton. After some "swapsies" with a loco from the sleeper train going the other way it left Taunton 2 1/2 hours late, avoided Swindon (no comment - see another thread!!)  and arrived in London 1 1/2 hour late


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on December 19, 2014, 04:38:08 pm
I know - I was on it!!

Actually to be truthful I didn't know.  I woke up just before six to find us on the Berks & Hants line rather than the expected Hullavington/Swindon route.

We left Plymouth with hired in 57303 and 57310 on the front and arrived at Paddington with 57303 replaced by 57603.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on December 21, 2014, 07:28:58 pm
Now had a chance to download my camera.

Here was the duo which brought the sleeper in on Friday morning.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/sleep1912.jpg)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: The Tall Controller on December 22, 2014, 08:17:16 pm
Just thought I would report that for what seems like the first time in a while both sleepers ran on Sunday night without fault and arrived at their destinations bang on time (a rare event for the down sleeper). Let's hope it continues through through to Chrsitmas.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on December 22, 2014, 10:20:14 pm
Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:23
This train will be starting late from Penzance and is expected to be 45 minutes late.
This is due to earlier signalling problems.

Should still be on time by Paddington?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on December 22, 2014, 11:19:56 pm
Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:23
This train will be starting late from Penzance and is expected to be 45 minutes late.
This is due to earlier signalling problems.

Should still be on time by Paddington?

Now 64 late.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on December 22, 2014, 11:33:50 pm
Knock on effect of signalling problems delaying the crew into Penzance rather than a problem with the train this time.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Brucey on December 23, 2014, 12:18:07 pm
Arrived Paddington at 0459, 24 early.  Late at all intermediate stops, but caught up some time between Reading and Paddington.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on January 23, 2015, 05:20:03 pm
Bit of a change for the Down sleeper last night.  Rather than being rescued it was called in to help out after the 23:30 London Paddington to Cardiff service (via Bristol Temple Meads) failed at Slough.

The sleeper called additionally at Slough, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads, where coaches were provided onwards toward Cardiff.

It then suffered an air problem in Devon but was only 13 late into Penzance.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 24, 2015, 12:11:23 am
It then suffered an air problem in Devon ...

That'll probably be the Radon gas ...  :P


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on January 24, 2015, 11:09:56 am
For any one who is interested I think 57312 will be on the up sleeper tomorrow correct me if I'm wrong but it will be nice to get pictures of a different loco on the sleeper


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on January 24, 2015, 01:49:32 pm
For any one who is interested I think 57312 will be on the up sleeper tomorrow correct me if I'm wrong but it will be nice to get pictures of a different loco on the sleeper

It was on the down last night. One of my Flickr contacts pictured it at Plymouth this morning.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on January 26, 2015, 08:15:51 pm
Well we'll not often a class 57 comes to the rescue normally needs rescuing itself. but a class 66 on freight failed between par and lostwithiel this afternoon so the 57 from tonight's up sleeper has gone to help! Hmm I wonder will the up sleeper be on time tonight?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on January 26, 2015, 08:18:20 pm
I think the plan is for the FGW 57 to push or pull the freight into Par and clear of the mainline.

A 66 is on its way from Westbury to take the train forward.

I wonder if they are both 1Z99.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on January 26, 2015, 08:22:12 pm
686N 1629 Goonbarrow Jn to Fowey Dock Carne Point took 1 hour 39 from Par to Lostwithiel and terminated at Lostwithiel. Is that the failed freight service?
No other services in RTT.
1A35 is 50 late. 1C86 lost 80 minutes around Westbury. Guessing that needed rescuing as well?

Edit*** 1C86 went from Westbury to Bristol Temple Meads then down to Taunton causing the delay.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: tomL on January 26, 2015, 08:23:44 pm
I think the plan is for the FGW 57 to push or pull the freight into Par and clear of the mainline.

A 66 is on its way from Westbury to take the train forward.

I wonder if they are both 1Z99.

Looks like 1C86 1506 Pad to Pnz has hit both of the failed trains on its journey today. Doh!  ::)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20330/2015/01/26/advanced


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on January 26, 2015, 08:30:54 pm
Yes a second freight failed on the main line between the junctions for Westbury and Frome.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on January 26, 2015, 08:40:54 pm
Looks like 1C86 1506 Pad to Pnz has hit both of the failed trains on its journey today. Doh!  ::)

And 1C87 (the 16:06 Pad to Pnz) is now running ahead of it.  Might have been better to wait at Westbury than go round via Bristol, but hindsight is a marvellous thing!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on January 26, 2015, 08:43:57 pm
Not only hindsight. You can't keep a train at Westbury indefinitely - there are only three platforms and it might then lead to cancellations because of "congestion caused by earlier delays"  ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on January 26, 2015, 09:42:55 pm
Looking at rtt I reckon the sleeper will be ten fifteen minuets late leaving penzance as the 57 ain't due back from st blazey until 2150


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on January 26, 2015, 10:00:19 pm
Spot on!

Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:23

This train will be starting late from Penzance and is expected to be 30 minutes late.
This is due to an earlier broken down train.

Further Information :
The sleeper locomotive was required to remove a broken-down freight train which was blocking the main line at Par earlier this evening. As a consequence this train will be running approximately 30 minutes late.


Message Received :26/01/2015 21:51

 Time Destination
 21:45  Penzance  22:15
 21:55  St Erth  22:25
 22:08  Camborne  22:38
 22:16  Redruth  22:46
 22:29  Truro  22:59
 22:47  St Austell  23:17
 22:57  Par  23:27
 23:09  Bodmin Parkway  23:39
 23:25  Liskeard  23:55
 23:55  Plymouth  00:25
 00:24  Totnes  00:54
 00:37  Newton Abbot  01:07
 01:06  Exeter St Davids  01:36
 01:42  Taunton  02:12
 04:00  Reading  04:30
 05:23  London Paddington  05:53


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on January 26, 2015, 10:09:15 pm
Spot on!

Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:23

This train will be starting late from Penzance and is expected to be 30 minutes late.
This is due to an earlier broken down train.

Further Information :
The sleeper locomotive was required to remove a broken-down freight train which was blocking the main line at Par earlier this evening. As a consequence this train will be running approximately 30 minutes late.


Message Received :26/01/2015 21:51

 Time Destination
 21:45  Penzance  22:15
 21:55  St Erth  22:25
 22:08  Camborne  22:38
 22:16  Redruth  22:46
 22:29  Truro  22:59
 22:47  St Austell  23:17
 22:57  Par  23:27
 23:09  Bodmin Parkway  23:39
 23:25  Liskeard  23:55
 23:55  Plymouth  00:25
 00:24  Totnes  00:54
 00:37  Newton Abbot  01:07
 01:06  Exeter St Davids  01:36
 01:42  Taunton  02:12
 04:00  Reading  04:30
 05:23  London Paddington  05:53


Nice to see journey check giving and explanation as why it will be running late which is clear and understandable and to the point. Not like this 'train will be starting late due to an earlier broken down train'. Is it me or is journey check explaining problems better now?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on January 26, 2015, 10:09:46 pm
04:00  Reading  04:30
05:23  London Paddington  05:53

Very pessimistic ... I think it may pick up a minute or two there ...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on January 26, 2015, 10:14:59 pm
Lets wait and see. It's got leave pz first!!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on January 26, 2015, 10:26:38 pm
Did the depot 08 get an outing with the coaches this evening? From RTT it appears the loco went straight to penzance station, so assuming the coaches were there waiting?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on January 26, 2015, 11:12:08 pm
04:00  Reading  04:30
05:23  London Paddington  05:53

Very pessimistic ... I think it may pick up a minute or two there ...

Realtimetrains is now showing expected arrival time at paddington as 05:09.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on January 27, 2015, 07:34:59 am
04:00  Reading  04:30
05:23  London Paddington  05:53

Very pessimistic ... I think it may pick up a minute or two there ...

Realtimetrains is now showing expected arrival time at paddington as 05:09.

For the record, arrived 05:19 - which is exactly as scheduled in the working timetable.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 27, 2015, 08:16:35 am
...........just out of interest, why was a FGW loco used to move a failed freight train, thus jeopardising/delaying passenger services?

Surely freight operators are obliged to have some sort of "rescue" arrangement in place when this happens? What would have happened if the Class 57 had failed as a result? (they often seem to fail without any "help" of this kind!!!)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on January 27, 2015, 08:26:54 am
Pragmatic response I would suggest.  With no other loco nearby it was in FGW's interests to shift the freight as their services were being heavily delayed.

The alternative would have been to sit back, do nothing and wait for the freight to moved by a more distant loco and pick up compensation to pass onto their delayed customers.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Ollie on January 27, 2015, 11:27:12 am
...........just out of interest, why was a FGW loco used to move a failed freight train, thus jeopardising/delaying passenger services?

Surely freight operators are obliged to have some sort of "rescue" arrangement in place when this happens? What would have happened if the Class 57 had failed as a result? (they often seem to fail without any "help" of this kind!!!)

I believe a loco was sent from Westbury - although there was a broken down freight in Westbury area too, so not sure if that slowed the freight company response or not. For the Par issue, I believe it was just a case of our loco was the quickest way of getting the freight off of the main line so normal running could be introduced.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernowman on January 27, 2015, 01:27:39 pm
It helpfully works both ways, as a 66 has been summoned to rescue the sleeper in the past.  :o


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on January 27, 2015, 02:54:42 pm
I would be surprised if DBS (the freight company) aren't invoiced by FGW for the use of the locomotive to rescue the freight train.  DBS would have obviously agreed to it beforehand.

There's a video on YouTube if anyone is that interested!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ems9LeMTgE


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Super Guard on January 27, 2015, 09:00:18 pm
Regardless of the loco situation, 1C86 is also worked by the sleeper driver/guard from Exeter to PZ, so a delay to this service could also delay the sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on February 01, 2015, 11:40:39 pm
The sleeper failed again tonight on the up got as far as long rock according to journey check. Think it's now normall hst left at 23.30 don't know much more than that but clearly did not get far at all. The only good thing I suppose is that they were not very far from assistance!!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 01, 2015, 11:57:16 pm
The sleeper failed again tonight on the up got as far as long rock according to journey check. Think it's now normall hst left at 23.30 don't know much more than that but clearly did not get far at all. The only good thing I suppose is that they were not very far from assistance!!

It's being run as a HST.

I can only assume the Sleeper stock was shunted back to Penzance by Long Rock's Class 08 shunter, the punters were turfed out, and the HST that arrived at Penzance from Paddington (1657 ex PAD) at 2321 has been pressed into service. That would explain the 135 minute delay in starting the (not now a) Sleeper from Penzance.

Does now mean that it's likely that either the 0505 or 0541 from Penzance to Paddington on Monday morning will be cancelled, as Long Rock has only two of it's usual three HSTs who bed down for the night.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on February 02, 2015, 12:17:41 am
Yea looks like they may have to toss a coin in the morning and the sleeper stock will need moving as well could be interesting tomorrow as to what plan they come up with


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 02, 2015, 12:50:46 am
There will doubtless be an ECS move of Sleeper stock sometime during the day.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on February 02, 2015, 05:01:08 am
Does now mean that it's likely that either the 0505 or 0541 from Penzance to Paddington on Monday morning will be cancelled, as Long Rock has only two of it's usual three HSTs who bed down for the night.

Neither in the end. The 07:41 is replaced by a three car unit sent from Exeter running from Truro to Bristol Temple Meads where an HST will take over.

Is it three or four HST sets that overnight at Penzance/Long Rock?  There is also the 06:45 to London Paddington to cover.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 02, 2015, 05:57:47 am
Does now mean that it's likely that either the 0505 or 0541 from Penzance to Paddington on Monday morning will be cancelled, as Long Rock has only two of it's usual three HSTs who bed down for the night.

Neither in the end. The 07:41 is replaced by a three car unit sent from Exeter running from Truro to Bristol Temple Meads where an HST will take over.

Is it three or four HST sets that overnight at Penzance/Long Rock?  There is also the 06:45 to London Paddington to cover.

21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:05
This train has been delayed from Penzance by 135 minutes and is being further delayed at Long Rock.
This is due to a train fault.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on February 02, 2015, 06:01:43 am
....but it was only 28 late by the time it reached London Paddington


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 02, 2015, 06:27:49 am
....but it was only 28 late by the time it reached London Paddington

8 hours overnight on an HST.......great start to the working week for some!   :(


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on February 02, 2015, 07:44:57 am
....but it was only 28 late by the time it reached London Paddington

8 hours overnight on an HST.......great start to the working week for some!   :(

I can see the point you are making, but slightly overstated.  The HST to form the service did not arrive in Penzance until 23:21 and then left at 23:30 after passengers and crew had been transferred from the sleeper coaches.  I make that six hours.

FGW have said tickets for last night will be valid on the sleeper tonight for those who can delay their plans, which I expect is not many. 

At least a service was run.  I think in many cases where the Caledonian service has problems it is either cancelled outright and you need to find a hotel or a very long journey on a coach is provided.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 02, 2015, 09:01:52 am
....but it was only 28 late by the time it reached London Paddington

8 hours overnight on an HST.......great start to the working week for some!   :(

I can see the point you are making, but slightly overstated.  The HST to form the service did not arrive in Penzance until 23:21 and then left at 23:30 after passengers and crew had been transferred from the sleeper coaches.  I make that six hours.

FGW have said tickets for last night will be valid on the sleeper tonight for those who can delay their plans, which I expect is not many. 

At least a service was run.  I think in many cases where the Caledonian service has problems it is either cancelled outright and you need to find a hotel or a very long journey on a coach is provided.

There were a lot of very unhappy people stranded for hours in the freezing cold at intermediate stations. I'm not sure the vagaries of the Caledonian service will be of interest or consolation to them. The wider impact of the unreliability of this service to the Business community and economy in the Southwest should not be underestimated.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Super Guard on February 02, 2015, 09:33:58 am
....but it was only 28 late by the time it reached London Paddington

8 hours overnight on an HST.......great start to the working week for some!   :(

I can see the point you are making, but slightly overstated.  The HST to form the service did not arrive in Penzance until 23:21 and then left at 23:30 after passengers and crew had been transferred from the sleeper coaches.  I make that six hours.

FGW have said tickets for last night will be valid on the sleeper tonight for those who can delay their plans, which I expect is not many. 

At least a service was run.  I think in many cases where the Caledonian service has problems it is either cancelled outright and you need to find a hotel or a very long journey on a coach is provided.

There were a lot of very unhappy people stranded for hours in the freezing cold at intermediate stations. I'm not sure the vagaries of the Caledonian service will be of interest or consolation to them. The wider impact of the unreliability of this service to the Business community and economy in the Southwest should not be underestimated.

While I agree with your closing comment, you cannot speak as a matter of fact for people you did not see or speak to.  Most berth reservations are at stations with staff and a waiting room, and I would expect those at the small stations either made their way to somewhere like Truro or Plymouth, or gave up and went home.  Not ideal granted.

For the record, the 57 loco was once again the issue.

The replacement HST would have made it RT in Paddington, but was delayed a further 30 minutes in the Newton Abbot area where an engineering possession had to be temporarily handed back for 1A40 to pass through.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 02, 2015, 10:57:31 am
.........may not have seen them or spoken to them in person, but I read the comments on FGW's Twitter feed from people stranded in the manner I alluded to, which seems to bear it out.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on February 02, 2015, 12:49:43 pm
As an occasional user of the Caledonian (lowland) sleeper, one of the big negatives is the wait until awfully late in the evening for the service to board at Glasgow / Edinburgh after a day's work and an early evening meal. I can't think what would be much more off-putting than a further 2 hours to wait, even if time was made up on the way.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 02, 2015, 01:36:08 pm
As an occasional user of the Caledonian (lowland) sleeper, one of the big negatives is the wait until awfully late in the evening for the service to board at Glasgow / Edinburgh after a day's work and an early evening meal. I can't think what would be much more off-putting than a further 2 hours to wait, even if time was made up on the way.

........with the easy availability of flights to/from Glasgow and Edinburgh from all London airports I can't imagine ever being able to justify using the Sleeper for that trip if on business!!!

The Night Rivera (if running!) does bridge the overnight gap in the absence of flights from Devon/Cornwall and gets you into London ready for a day's work (again with the caveat that it's running to plan and you can get a decent kip en route!)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on February 02, 2015, 05:14:59 pm
I can't see any ECS stock movement on RTT. I am assuming there was one as otherwise tonights down will be a non starter.

**edit it left long rock at 1027, it needed another loco with it reaching OOC at 1704. I believe 57312 is the dead loco, and was pulled back to OOC dead**

I'm wondering if the rescue loco had worked the down, trying to find if there was another movement for a loco.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on February 02, 2015, 07:08:10 pm
I can't see any ECS stock movement on RTT. I am assuming there was one as otherwise tonights down will be a non starter.

**edit it left long rock at 1027, it needed another loco with it reaching OOC at 1704. I believe 57312 is the dead loco, and was pulled back to OOC dead**

I'm wondering if the rescue loco had worked the down, trying to find if there was another movement for a loco.

RTT will only show trains which have been pre-loaded into the system, so short notice  VSTP trains may not have even been timed.      The loco to work the "Demic" loco and stock up to OOC came down attached to 1C99 last night.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: The Tall Controller on February 02, 2015, 07:23:45 pm
All explained (with photos) here: http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/headlines---latest-reports-and-photographs


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on February 02, 2015, 08:07:09 pm
Does any one know what's wrong with the failed loco was it a brake problem or did the engine say I don't want to do this tonight and pack up! Will it be a quick fix or long term project. And who will foot the bill FGW or DRS as it is one of there locos


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernowman on February 02, 2015, 11:33:48 pm

Is it three or four HST sets that overnight at Penzance/Long Rock?
It's five, the 05.05, 05.41, 06.45, 07.41 and 08.44 are all booked off Longrock. There's also a 10.00 but that comes off the 07.02 Plymouth.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernowman on February 03, 2015, 02:08:28 am
The HST to form the service did not arrive in Penzance until 23:21 and then left at 23:30 after passengers and crew had been transferred from the sleeper coaches.

I'm a bit surprised that it was decided to wait around two hours and then rapidly turn around the HST off the 16.57 Pad - PZ (which presumably needed cleaning etc). On Sunday evenings there's already 3 HSTs out at Longrock before the sleeper is even due to leave, the first of which arrives at Longrock around 6pm. (The 11.57,12.57 & 14.57 Pad-PZ)  :o


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 03, 2015, 06:55:35 am
Down Sleeper failed last night (Tues 02/02/2015) at Trowbridge. Rescued by Up Sleeper to Westbury, with initial plan to send a HST from Bristol for onward travel from Westbury.

Service got going again though and is running some 1^ hours late. Calls at Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway and Lostwithiel are being skipped.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on February 03, 2015, 07:19:55 am
Down Sleeper failed last night (Tues 02/02/2015) at Trowbridge. Rescued by Up Sleeper to Westbury, with initial plan to send a HST from Bristol for onward travel from Westbury.

Service got going again though and is running some 1^ hours late. Calls at Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway and Lostwithiel are being skipped.

I've just got the 0713 from Redruth, down sleepers currently showing 1 hr 6 late on the boards

(posted from fgw WiFi, it is rather quick, I am impressed)



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 03, 2015, 07:28:52 am
.....in some ways a positive thing if you were getting off the sleeper at Plymouth, being woken up and turfed off at 0730-ish a great deal more civilised than the usual 0530! At least there'll be a chance of getting breakfast somewhere! (Cap'n Jaspers should be open by now!!!)  :)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on February 03, 2015, 07:42:04 am
.....in some ways a positive thing if you were getting off the sleeper at Plymouth, being woken up and turfed off at 0730-ish a great deal more civilised than the usual 0530! At least there'll be a chance of getting breakfast somewhere! (Cap'n Jaspers should be open by now!!!)  :)

Cap'n jaspers now that's the best idea so far this morning!!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 03, 2015, 08:06:06 am
.....in some ways a positive thing if you were getting off the sleeper at Plymouth, being woken up and turfed off at 0730-ish a great deal more civilised than the usual 0530! At least there'll be a chance of getting breakfast somewhere! (Cap'n Jaspers should be open by now!!!)  :)

Not sure whether the pax had already been woken at Westbury and transferred to a HST. Anyone know for definite what ran from Westbury onward?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: BBM on February 03, 2015, 10:50:21 am
.....in some ways a positive thing if you were getting off the sleeper at Plymouth, being woken up and turfed off at 0730-ish a great deal more civilised than the usual 0530! At least there'll be a chance of getting breakfast somewhere! (Cap'n Jaspers should be open by now!!!)  :)

Not sure whether the pax had already been woken at Westbury and transferred to a HST. Anyone know for definite what ran from Westbury onward?

According to the Twitter account of ModelRailwayCorp it was replaced by an HST formed of 43159 / OC40 / 43137.

https://twitter.com/MRailwayCORP/status/562553378174427136/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/MRailwayCORP/status/562553378174427136/photo/1)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 03, 2015, 11:40:07 am
Another set of bleary eyed Sleeper passengers then.

The reliability of the service really is at an unacceptably poor level. I'm just surprised it's not made the media yet.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on February 03, 2015, 11:57:11 am

According to the Twitter account of ModelRailwayCorp it was replaced by an HST formed of 43159 / OC40 / 43137.

https://twitter.com/MRailwayCORP/status/562553378174427136/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/MRailwayCORP/status/562553378174427136/photo/1)


This 'adds up' - one of the early Bristol to Paddington HST services this morning was cancelled "due to train fault". Me thinks train fault on the sleeper with the HST ending up at the other end of the line!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 03, 2015, 12:02:28 pm
Another set of bleary eyed Sleeper passengers then.

The reliability of the service really is at an unacceptably poor level. I'm just surprised it's not made the media yet.

It'll make the media when enough people stop using it due to its unreliability to the extent that it becomes unviable to continue the service and it stops..........who knows, maybe that wouldn't upset FGW too much?

It's beginning to seem that it's more trouble than its worth, especially when the frequent switching of units results in the cancellation of peak trains the following morning (particularly those from Penzance/Plymouth to Paddington), which inconveniences far more people than the removal of the Sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on February 03, 2015, 12:09:43 pm
Suggests that no journalists based in Plymouth or Cornwall ever use the sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 03, 2015, 12:10:38 pm

According to the Twitter account of ModelRailwayCorp it was replaced by an HST formed of 43159 / OC40 / 43137.

https://twitter.com/MRailwayCORP/status/562553378174427136/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/MRailwayCORP/status/562553378174427136/photo/1)


This 'adds up' - one of the early Bristol to Paddington HST services this morning was cancelled "due to train fault". Me thinks train fault on the sleeper with the HST ending up at the other end of the line!

Yes, the 0712 (0800 off BRI) from Taunton was the unlucky one.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 03, 2015, 12:12:46 pm
Another set of bleary eyed Sleeper passengers then.

The reliability of the service really is at an unacceptably poor level. I'm just surprised it's not made the media yet.

It'll make the media when enough people stop using it due to its unreliability to the extent that it becomes unviable to continue the service and it stops..........who knows, maybe that wouldn't upset FGW too much?

It's beginning to seem that it's more trouble than its worth, especially when the frequent switching of units results in the cancellation of peak trains the following morning (particularly those from Penzance/Plymouth to Paddington), which inconveniences far more people than the removal of the Sleeper.

Make it a dedicated franchise like the Caledonian Sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on February 03, 2015, 12:20:28 pm
Since the appalling unreliability of the sleeper is largely caused by locomotive failures, would it not be possible to hire either something more reliable, or possibly to use two.
Having two locos on the train when one should suffice sounds extravagant but might be cheaper than the endless delays ?

Possibly heritage diesels could be used ? these don't have an unblemished record but should be fine if double headed.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 03, 2015, 12:26:19 pm
Make it a dedicated franchise like the Caledonian Sleeper.

I don't think it's a big enough operation to be a dedicated franchise - perhaps including it within the Caledonian Sleeper franchise (separately branded and staffed, but using shared modern diesel locomotives, carriages and on-board supplies) might make sense, but to my slight surprise I've never heard that mentioned as a possibility.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernowman on February 03, 2015, 12:28:17 pm
I wonder how easy it would have been to hire in a 66 from Westbury to PZ to assist the 57? At least sleeper passengers would have been able to stay put and the resulting HST cancellations wouldn't have been necessary.

As far as I can see there are 6 options for the future of the sleeper (In no particular order or desirability):

1. Sort out the 57's
2. Use 67's
3  Use 68's
4. Rewire the sleeper and use HST power cars
5. Introduce later/earlier services to/from London and the Southwest and scrap the sleeper altogether. If you alienate enough sleeper passengers with HST substitutes and delays etc then this option becomes easier to implement.
6. Something else e.g other Diesels

Sunday night's failure could have a silver lining as a lot of people use the up sleeper on sunday night to get back to work in London (including MP's). Once 'important people' start getting affected then questions might start getting asked.
(I know, I know everyones' important!)
 
Ironically, quite recently the PM was at Longrock depot talking about the planned refurbishment of the sleeper stock and a proposed 'new depot'. Unfortunately however refurbished stock is not much good if it's sat in a siding while pax are on an HST.

I remember sleeper failures occasionally happening years ago but there were more locos around to rescue it (some good runs behind a 50 or a pair of them) and HST substitutions were unheard of.  :o


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on February 03, 2015, 04:59:54 pm
So what's the plan for tonight anyone know?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on February 03, 2015, 05:40:12 pm
So what's the plan for tonight anyone know?
Both sets are at OOC. as of 1600 the ECS hadn't left OOC, so an on time running is rather slim. There is an extra HST set in Cornwall though from the set that took over at Westbury last night doesn't appear to have gone anywhere yet.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Ollie on February 03, 2015, 05:45:16 pm
The current plan is for the sleeper stock to start at Plymouth with a HST covering the Penzance to Plymouth part.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on February 03, 2015, 06:21:08 pm
So what's the plan for tonight anyone know?
Both sets are at OOC. as of 1600 the ECS hadn't left OOC, so an on time running is rather slim. There is an extra HST set in Cornwall though from the set that took over at Westbury last night doesn't appear to have gone anywhere yet.

Was booked to run as 3A40 leaving OOC at 1350 with 57306 + 57602
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O70498/2015/02/03/advanced


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 03, 2015, 06:50:31 pm
So what's the plan for tonight anyone know?

A38/M5/M4


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on February 03, 2015, 06:53:25 pm
Not good, I fear for the future of this service. Perhaps a coincidence, but the early morning Flybe return flights from Newquay - Gatwick - Newquay and Exeter - London City - Exeter seem to be much busier of late, with over 80% of seats filled on Monday and again tomorrow.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 03, 2015, 07:12:53 pm
So what's the plan for tonight anyone know?

A38/M5/M4

Don't go to sleep taking that option though, unless you've hired a driver.

I wonder if Stagecoach have investigated running their Megabus Gold Sleeper coaches from the far west of Cornwall.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on February 03, 2015, 07:16:50 pm
Hmm will have to wait and see what happens later no notification on journey check yet I would laugh if it was a dmu to exter or even Bristol. But surely that would never happen right? I have been proved wrong before!! So won't be placing any bets


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on February 03, 2015, 07:19:27 pm
So what's the plan for tonight anyone know?
Both sets are at OOC. as of 1600 the ECS hadn't left OOC, so an on time running is rather slim. There is an extra HST set in Cornwall though from the set that took over at Westbury last night doesn't appear to have gone anywhere yet.

Was booked to run as 3A40 leaving OOC at 1350 with 57306 + 57602
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O70498/2015/02/03/advanced

It didn't leave OOC on time. Realtime Trains showing it left OOC at 1850, 300 late and expected in Plymouth at 2311. Real time trains is still showing it going all the way to Penzance to arrive at Penzance 0101, which is by all reports not happening.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on February 03, 2015, 10:34:56 pm
Guessing the sleeper has started with a hst as it left pz on time and sleeper set in exter now so will probs change in plymouth if my theory is right


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Super Guard on February 03, 2015, 10:54:50 pm
Of course the level of service is not good enough, however the re-wiring to run with HST power-cars would require the mass cancellation of the service while this was happening, as you cannot have a mix of re-wired and non re-wired coaches running in the same set.  So, do you think the service could survive a good month or so of permanent HST replacement?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Super Guard on February 03, 2015, 11:06:55 pm
.........may not have seen them or spoken to them in person, but I read the comments on FGW's Twitter feed from people stranded in the manner I alluded to, which seems to bear it out.

I promise you, spending your social time reading FGW's Twitter feed is a proven fast way to a nervous breakdown  ;D.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on February 03, 2015, 11:30:53 pm
.........may not have seen them or spoken to them in person, but I read the comments on FGW's Twitter feed from people stranded in the manner I alluded to, which seems to bear it out.

I promise you, spending your social time reading FGW's Twitter feed is a proven fast way to a nervous breakdown  ;D.

I thought it was a comedy script. There is a woman on facebook who complains twice daily that her train was 1, 2 or 3 minutes late. She even moans when it's on time.

Back to topic...
How simple would it be to turn HST carriages into beds when they aren't needed anymore when electrification is finished?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernow Otter on February 03, 2015, 11:45:09 pm
Look at what you can do from the outset - might look familiar.

http://www.nswtrainlink.info/your_journey/fleet/xpt (http://www.nswtrainlink.info/your_journey/fleet/xpt)

Rode this from Melbourne to Sydney overnight. 

Anything is possible...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Ollie on February 04, 2015, 12:14:32 am
.........may not have seen them or spoken to them in person, but I read the comments on FGW's Twitter feed from people stranded in the manner I alluded to, which seems to bear it out.

I promise you, spending your social time reading FGW's Twitter feed is a proven fast way to a nervous breakdown  ;D.

It is? Maybe I should be off of work then ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 04, 2015, 12:16:58 am
Of course the level of service is not good enough, however the re-wiring to run with HST power-cars would require the mass cancellation of the service while this was happening, as you cannot have a mix of re-wired and non re-wired coaches running in the same set.  So, do you think the service could survive a good month or so of permanent HST replacement?

Do the carriages have to be re-wired to be compatible with the Class 43s? Can it not be done the other way round? Replace the three phase auxilliary alternator in the HST power cars with a 1000v supply. HSTs already generate DC current for the traction motors. It can't be beyond the wit of man to re-purpose the electric generation. Even at the cost of less power going to the traction motors. Hauling Sleeper stock won't require 125mph running.

I do have say though, I'm not completely conversant with how the Class 43's prime movers generate and distribute their electricity.

A retro alternative would be to fit each individual Sleeper carriage with batteries and dynamos.

Another alternative is to convert a few Mk3s to generator vans similar to those used by Iarnr^d ^ireann in their (now retired) BR Mk3 derived fleet.

But the best answer is, first, some new locos, and second, new rolling stock.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 04, 2015, 12:34:29 am
Yours is one voice of calm and reason in the gathering storm, Ollie.  ;) :D ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on February 04, 2015, 05:02:53 am
Of course the level of service is not good enough, however the re-wiring to run with HST power-cars would require the mass cancellation of the service while this was happening, as you cannot have a mix of re-wired and non re-wired coaches running in the same set.  So, do you think the service could survive a good month or so of permanent HST replacement?

Even with the constraint of "ancient or modern only", it wouldn't require total replacement for any period.

a) One set at a time, so continue to run a full sleeper from Penzance on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday nights and from Paddington on Monday, Wednesday and Friday (or the other way round if I've picked the quieter or the two diagrams there)

b) With the second set, there would be the option of HST substitution (bearing in mind the effect on other rotas) or running a half length sleeper, enhanced with spare carriages (are there any?  Any chance to borrow from the Caledonian Sleeper?)

Alternative would be to run 2/3 length sleepers, converting the carriages 1/3 at a time.

The sleeper has indeed survived being off for couple of months during Dawlish - of course I'm not privy to the damage done, nor the damage that would be done during a conversion, but I don't see it would be as severe as "no sleeper at all for x months". Seasonallity would help - "This is a quiet time of year" said the conductor on my (rather busy!) local train a few days ago, and I imagine the sleeper 'suffers' similarly?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rhydgaled on February 04, 2015, 09:36:42 am
Any chance to borrow from the Caledonian Sleeper?
No need to borrow once the new stock for the Caledonian is delivered, but a shorter-term solution is probably needed.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Super Guard on February 04, 2015, 11:01:25 am
Of course the level of service is not good enough, however the re-wiring to run with HST power-cars would require the mass cancellation of the service while this was happening, as you cannot have a mix of re-wired and non re-wired coaches running in the same set.  So, do you think the service could survive a good month or so of permanent HST replacement?

Do the carriages have to be re-wired to be compatible with the Class 43s? Can it not be done the other way round? Replace the three phase auxilliary alternator in the HST power cars with a 1000v supply. HSTs already generate DC current for the traction motors. It can't be beyond the wit of man to re-purpose the electric generation. Even at the cost of less power going to the traction motors. Hauling Sleeper stock won't require 125mph running.

I do have say though, I'm not completely conversant with how the Class 43's prime movers generate and distribute their electricity.

A retro alternative would be to fit each individual Sleeper carriage with batteries and dynamos.

Another alternative is to convert a few Mk3s to generator vans similar to those used by Iarnr^d ^ireann in their (now retired) BR Mk3 derived fleet.

But the best answer is, first, some new locos, and second, new rolling stock.

I don't know for sure, but I believe there is an option to do it the other way round - the issue then being you have dedicated power-cars for the service.  Power-cars still break down, so if you are not tied to a specific pair of them, you have more flexibility.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on February 04, 2015, 02:48:37 pm
Look at what you can do from the outset - might look familiar.

http://www.nswtrainlink.info/your_journey/fleet/xpt (http://www.nswtrainlink.info/your_journey/fleet/xpt)

My late grandfather was seconded from BR to help with the introduction of the XPTs (the timetabling and service pattern in particular, I think). As an eight-year old one of my prized possessions was a little rotating cardboard dial that showed off the new journey times. I didn't know whether the trains were faster or slower than the previous ones, but I did know that Wagga Wagga was a brilliant placename.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on February 04, 2015, 03:31:34 pm
When I passed OOC at around 8am this morning, the sleeper stock was being backed into the depot by a "Northern Belle" brown loco (class 47?).


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rhydgaled on February 04, 2015, 05:46:39 pm
When I passed OOC at around 8am this morning, the sleeper stock was being backed into the depot by a "Northern Belle" brown loco (class 47?).
There are 4 'Northern Belle' Pullman liveried diesel locos I think. Two are class 47s and the other two are class 57/3 'Thunderbirds', same as the DRS blue locos which have supplemented FirstGW's own pool of 4 class 57/6 locos.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on February 04, 2015, 06:25:58 pm
57312,, here is a link to it having failed on Sunday night (not my video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxCfZ2N6c0


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ellendune on February 04, 2015, 08:57:07 pm
What is the difference in the wiring between the sleepers and HST's?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on February 04, 2015, 08:57:58 pm
Not sure about the wiring, but I am pretty sure the voltage is different.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 04, 2015, 09:02:20 pm
Agree: I'm sure it's been discussed on the Coffee Shop forum before (I can't find it at the moment, due to our 'search' software being discomnadgerated  ::) ), but it's because the two are currently completely incompatible.  ;) :D ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Super Guard on February 04, 2015, 09:06:18 pm
HSTs have up to 450V AC transferred through three-phase cables (hence why you shouldn't plug your phones into those luggage rack sockets at 125mph)..

Sleeper has 1000V DC, which is wired differently.

2 power cars could haul the sleeper every night, but the 57 needs to be running to provide the train supply.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Super Guard on February 04, 2015, 09:07:17 pm
Agree: I'm sure it's been discussed on the Coffee Shop forum before (I can't find it at the moment, due to our 'search' software being discomnadgerated  ::) ), but it's because the two are currently completely incompatible.  ;) :D ;D

I take what I said about the lightbulb back...  ::) ::) ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 04, 2015, 09:12:50 pm
What is the difference in the wiring between the sleepers and HST's?

HST power cars deliver 3 phase AC current at, I believe 415v, direct to the various systems (aircon, lighting, heating) that the HST Mk3s use. Loco hauled Mk3s receive 1000v (not sure whether AC or DC, I suspect the latter) from the loco, converted to usable voltage by motor generators on each carriage to provide the 'hotel' power.

I think. And stand to be corrected by anyone more knowledgeable.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ellendune on February 04, 2015, 10:18:09 pm
What is the difference in the wiring between the sleepers and HST's?

HST power cars deliver 3 phase AC current at, I believe 415v, direct to the various systems (aircon, lighting, heating) that the HST Mk3s use. Loco hauled Mk3s receive 1000v (not sure whether AC or DC, I suspect the latter) from the loco, converted to usable voltage by motor generators on each carriage to provide the 'hotel' power.

I think. And stand to be corrected by anyone more knowledgeable.
Then rewire them so that the motor generators deliver 3 phase 415V, with all the hotel ssytems working at 230V AC (i.e a single phase of the 415V).  Include the wiring for a 415V through cable.  All the carriages are returned to service operating from the 1000V supply. 

When the changeover is made remove the 1000V jumpers, disconnect the generators from the 415V main and fit the new 415V jumpers.  The Motor generators and 1000V wiring can then be removed at a convenient time if necessary.   


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: stuving on February 04, 2015, 10:44:30 pm
What is the difference in the wiring between the sleepers and HST's?

HST power cars deliver 3 phase AC current at, I believe 415v, direct to the various systems (aircon, lighting, heating) that the HST Mk3s use. Loco hauled Mk3s receive 1000v (not sure whether AC or DC, I suspect the latter) from the loco, converted to usable voltage by motor generators on each carriage to provide the 'hotel' power.

I think. And stand to be corrected by anyone more knowledgeable.
Then rewire them so that the motor generators deliver 3 phase 415V, with all the hotel ssytems working at 230V AC (i.e a single phase of the 415V).  Include the wiring for a 415V through cable.  All the carriages are returned to service operating from the 1000V supply. 

When the changeover is made remove the 1000V jumpers, disconnect the generators from the 415V main and fit the new 415V jumpers.  The Motor generators and 1000V wiring can then be removed at a convenient time if necessary.   

The first thing you need is the control cables that connect the two power cars.

Then 415/240V AC (or 400/230 V)  looks a good choice for a power, as it is what the world outside the railway works off. But the on-board equipment won't have been designed for that, which will make it more difficult. Heaters for 850 V can't easily bye run off lower voltages unless they have as lower-voltage elements wired in series, and then it depends. Lights are usually 120 V, and need to be run via the back-up battery float-charge system. Anything than can run off AC can be fed by a transformer, but the prevalence of DC in train supplies means that's less common than you would expect.

But really, is is so difficult to find a locomotive that works - reliably? There's no new technology, uniquely demanding environment, or other features of this sleeper service that make it harder to meet than on other railways, are there?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 05, 2015, 06:06:36 am

But really, is is so difficult to find a locomotive that works - reliably? There's no new technology, uniquely demanding environment, or other features of this sleeper service that make it harder to meet than on other railways, are there?
[/quote]


.....hear hear.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on February 05, 2015, 06:53:28 am
Surprising news of the week.... Tonight's down hauled by Pendennis Castle is running on time!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on February 05, 2015, 07:42:26 am
And the up was early to ladbroke grove then 8 late in to padd


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rhydgaled on February 05, 2015, 08:06:45 am
But really, is is so difficult to find a locomotive that works - reliably? There's no new technology, uniquely demanding environment, or other features of this sleeper service that make it harder to meet than on other railways, are there?
Apparently, it is rather difficult to find a diesel locomotive for passenger that works in this country. The only diesel LHCS fleet that appears in the Modern Railways 'Golden Spanner' contests is Chiltern's 67+mrk3+DVT sets, and they are bottom of the INTERCITY table, although in the latest figures did acheive a 32.7% improvement in reliability from the previous year. According to a topic on RailUK forum, Arriva Trains Wales had a spate of failures with thier 67-powered Y Gerallt Gymro service a while back. I suggested that perhaps the small fleet means the maintenance staff take a long time to get to know the stock well.

If you want to blame the class of locomotive used, there are not many other options other than old locomotives similar to the 57s used now. I think the only post-privatisation diesel locos suitable for passenger service are the class 67s and class 68s. Of course there are lots of relatively new class 66 locomotives, but using them for the sleeper would have the same result as using class 43s (IC125 power cars), no power to the coaches (for a different reason, class 43s supply incompattible power, but 66s won't provide power at all since they are freight locos).

If size of fleet is the problem, perhaps allocating a load of 57s and introducing some daytime LHCS services to free up DMUs for other parts of the franchise will get the maintenance teams up to speed and improve reliablity.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: autotank on February 05, 2015, 08:46:15 am
I saw the down sleeper last night pass through Twyford and was surprised to see it top and tailed with a DRS 57 on the back. Are they now basing a spare 57 at Penzance to deal with failures?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on February 05, 2015, 09:00:05 am
I saw the down sleeper last night pass through Twyford and was surprised to see it top and tailed with a DRS 57 on the back. Are they now basing a spare 57 at Penzance to deal with failures?

A fitter travels with the sleeper every night.  The 57 on the back is basically a mobile source of spares should..... when the front one fails. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 05, 2015, 09:24:58 am
I saw the down sleeper last night pass through Twyford and was surprised to see it top and tailed with a DRS 57 on the back. Are they now basing a spare 57 at Penzance to deal with failures?

A fitter travels with the sleeper every night.  The 57 on the back is basically a mobile source of spares should..... when the front one fails. 

What a desperate way to operate.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: tomL on February 05, 2015, 10:33:06 am
I saw the down sleeper last night pass through Twyford and was surprised to see it top and tailed with a DRS 57 on the back. Are they now basing a spare 57 at Penzance to deal with failures?

A fitter travels with the sleeper every night.  The 57 on the back is basically a mobile source of spares should..... when the front one fails. 

What a desperate way to operate.

Would you rather they don't try at all? Just leave it where it fails?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 05, 2015, 12:20:00 pm
If size of fleet is the problem, perhaps allocating a load of 57s and introducing some daytime LHCS services to free up DMUs for other parts of the franchise will get the maintenance teams up to speed and improve reliablity.

I really can't see how that would make much of a difference.  You might get a slight improvement in Class 57 reliability, but because you'd be running more trains with them, the reliability and resilience of other parts of the network would suffer.  The Class 57 are essentially 15 year old pieces of equipment bolted on to a 50 year old bodyshell and basic design.  They've pretty much had their day!  Ditto using HST power cars which would be at best a stop-gap measure that might mean they soldier on for a few more years, but they're also well past their sell-by date (personally I don't see them staying on the Cornish services beyond a couple of years before Class 222s arrive).  I don't want to sound too negative, but I worry about the reliability of the re-engined Class 73s to be used on the diesel sections of the Caledonian Sleeper services for the same reasons.

The Class 67 would be a much better bet, though they haven't exactly covered themselves in glory reliability wise either - though much better than the 57s of late and the figures are much better when they're not being used on push-pull services I suspect.  The perfect solution (if enough of them were to become available, via the current order or an addition to the current order) would be the new Class 68s - assuming they prove their reliability.

All of this only goes to prove the vulnerability of using a single power source, when there aren't anywhere near the number of rescue options there used to be, which I've been banging on about on here for years!   ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: chrisr_75 on February 05, 2015, 01:34:08 pm
Why not take the approach formerly used on the Scottish sleepers in using an otherwise redundant loco (engine & gen set ok, ETH fitted, but no longer suitable/required for providing traction, a class 57 perhaps?!) to act as a mobile generator for train supply, and use a modern, reliable freight loco for traction purposes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_25#Train_Heating_Units (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_25#Train_Heating_Units)

The additional drawbar weight would not be an issue for a heavy freight unit such as a class 66?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 05, 2015, 02:29:56 pm
Ah, the good old ETHEL's!  ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: chrisr_75 on February 05, 2015, 03:01:25 pm
Ah, the good old ETHEL's!  ;)

Yup, and they worked it seems. Quite an effective solution to a shortage of ETH equipped traction. Even an old parcel/goods van (or an old MotorRail van? Plenty of those lying around...) with a suitable gen set installed would do the job, not sure why no-one has considered any of these options, or maybe they have and they're too difficult in some way or 'computer says no' type of thing?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rhydgaled on February 05, 2015, 04:54:48 pm
I really can't see how that would make much of a difference.  You might get a slight improvement in Class 57 reliability, but because you'd be running more trains with them, the reliability and resilience of other parts of the network would suffer.  The Class 57 are essentially 15 year old pieces of equipment bolted on to a 50 year old bodyshell and basic design.  They've pretty much had their day!  Ditto using HST power cars which would be at best a stop-gap measure that might mean they soldier on for a few more years, but they're also well past their sell-by date (personally I don't see them staying on the Cornish services beyond a couple of years before Class 222s arrive).  I don't want to sound too negative, but I worry about the reliability of the re-engined Class 73s to be used on the diesel sections of the Caledonian Sleeper services for the same reasons.

The Class 67 would be a much better bet, though they haven't exactly covered themselves in glory reliability wise either - though much better than the 57s of late and the figures are much better when they're not being used on push-pull services I suspect.  The perfect solution (if enough of them were to become available, via the current order or an addition to the current order) would be the new Class 68s - assuming they prove their reliability.
I'm not a mechinical engineer, but if new is the answer to reliability, then provided the 73s have all internal components replaced, leaving just the bits which are basicaly just lumps metal (body panels, axles etc.) then, assuming the metal isn't all rusted or about to crack under the strain of many years work, I cannot see why they shouldn't be any more of problem than 68s. Same applies to 57s if they actualy had everything serious (again excluding body panels etc.) replaced.

All of this only goes to prove the vulnerability of using a single power source, when there aren't anywhere near the number of rescue options there used to be, which I've been banging on about on here for years!   ;)
Makes sense, VT have their (class 57!) Thunderbirds stationed arround the WCML, I'm aware of no such thing for the GWML (or on the ECML or MML?). Why no Thunderbirds on the Great Western?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on February 05, 2015, 07:17:27 pm
There might be if nobody had to pay for them.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Super Guard on February 05, 2015, 07:38:41 pm
Why not take the approach formerly used on the Scottish sleepers in using an otherwise redundant loco (engine & gen set ok, ETH fitted, but no longer suitable/required for providing traction, a class 57 perhaps?!) to act as a mobile generator for train supply, and use a modern, reliable freight loco for traction purposes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_25#Train_Heating_Units (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_25#Train_Heating_Units)

The additional drawbar weight would not be an issue for a heavy freight unit such as a class 66?

You could use 2x HST PC's for that, as long the 57 is working well enough to provide train supply.  Although, I think you would also need a driver in the 57 at all times, doubling the driver cost.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Henry on February 06, 2015, 08:48:47 am

  Perhaps FGW should take a radical approach with the sleepers, and do away with them altogether.

 If reliability and cost are major issues, I think it is unfair on customers to play 'Russian Roulette' on what
 should be a premium service.
 Years ago I seem to remember you where able to buy Rail/hotel packages  (Golden Rail, I think).
 So maybe unless the problems with 'sleepers' are resolved, this is a option FGW might consider.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 06, 2015, 12:35:07 pm
Perhaps FGW should take a radical approach with the sleepers, and do away with them altogether.

Yes, I suppose you could panic and try and pull the plug on a much loved and socially important service and risk the reputation of your business even further down in Devon and Cornwall - not that the DfT would probably let you of course.

Let's hope these issues are resolved, both the temporary reliability of the engines, and a more long-term strategy to improve the resilience and quality of the service, before too many of the regulars vote with their feet and stop using it.  On time arrivals (both trains double headed) last night I see.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on February 06, 2015, 01:49:42 pm
much loved and socially important service and risk the reputation of your business even further down in Devon and Cornwall

before too many of the regulars vote with their feet and stop using it. 

If the first para is true, the second won't happen, however bad it gets. There'll be lotsa of complaints however, of course.
If the latter does happen, then the former isn't true....if its that important, pax will go on using it, however delayed.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on February 06, 2015, 04:52:20 pm
It's suprising how many enfusiests travel on the sleeper think there would be uproar from them if fgw pulled the plug I met a guy once who travelled down from Scotland just to travel up to pad on the sleeper!




Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on February 06, 2015, 05:14:28 pm
A couple of probably-stupid questions:

(1) Whenever I see pictures of American freight trains, there's always 3-4 locomotives at the front. UK (and European) freights always seem to have only one. Is this because (a) American freight trains are big and need all of that power to move them, or (b) American freight locomotives are unreliable and there's several of them just in case?

(2) Why are there all these different voltages on railway rolling stock? There's been mention here of 1000v power supplies, 120v DC lighting circuits and 850v heaters. Given that the world (well, except for the American bit) works on 240v AC (or 415v AC in its three-phase version), wouldn't it make sense for the railway to do the same?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 06, 2015, 05:27:21 pm
All of this only goes to prove the vulnerability of using a single power source, when there aren't anywhere near the number of rescue options there used to be, which I've been banging on about on here for years!   ;)
Makes sense, VT have their (class 57!) Thunderbirds stationed arround the WCML, I'm aware of no such thing for the GWML (or on the ECML or MML?). Why no Thunderbirds on the Great Western?

Virgin Trains no longer make routine use of Class 57/3 'Thunderbirds'. All have been de-named and re-liveried. All 16 have found other homes. 12 are with Direct Rail Services in their 'Compass' liveries (with a couple in Riviera Trains' 'Northern Belle' livery and one in Network Rail yellow). The other 4 are with West Coast Railways, 3 in WCRC Maroon and one in plain blue.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 06, 2015, 06:40:29 pm
It's suprising how many enfusiests travel on the sleeper think there would be uproar from them if fgw pulled the plug I met a guy once who travelled down from Scotland just to travel up to pad on the sleeper!




I suspect that would be the main source of any uproar that ensues, other than token protests from local politicians - however I think Chris B has hit the nail on the head with his last post.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ellendune on February 06, 2015, 08:33:56 pm
(1) Whenever I see pictures of American freight trains, there's always 3-4 locomotives at the front. UK (and European) freights always seem to have only one. Is this because (a) American freight trains are big and need all of that power to move them, or (b) American freight locomotives are unreliable and there's several of them just in case?


I think you will find the answer is (a).

(2) Why are there all these different voltages on railway rolling stock? There's been mention here of 1000v power supplies, 120v DC lighting circuits and 850v heaters. Given that the world (well, except for the American bit) works on 240v AC (or 415v AC in its three-phase version), wouldn't it make sense for the railway to do the same?

A very good question.  I suspect some of it might date back to early days and have dragged on because they wanted compatibility with earlier stock. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on February 06, 2015, 08:55:16 pm
57312 is on a rugby special tonight. Let's hope it performs better for the rugby.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Super Guard on February 07, 2015, 12:28:33 am
It's suprising how many enfusiests travel on the sleeper think there would be uproar from them if fgw pulled the plug I met a guy once who travelled down from Scotland just to travel up to pad on the sleeper!




I suspect that would be the main source of any uproar that ensues, other than token protests from local politicians - however I think Chris B has hit the nail on the head with his last post.

Nonsense.  I've met plenty of politicians on-board the sleeper from the SW who regularly use and value the service.  Remember when the service was under threat a few years back - many people complaining and campaigning - it wasn't a few spotters crying with their notepads out.

Just because the timings don't work with your life does not mean they do not work for others.

I'm sure the current situation of multiple 57s, HST double PC's and random 57s turning up from other companies will naturally bring out more spotters than usual.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 07, 2015, 09:10:31 am
57312 is on a rugby special tonight. Let's hope it performs better for the rugby.


.....let's hope it performed better than Wales!  ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rhydgaled on February 07, 2015, 03:20:44 pm
Virgin Trains no longer make routine use of Class 57/3 'Thunderbirds'. All have been de-named and re-liveried. All 16 have found other homes. 12 are with Direct Rail Services in their 'Compass' liveries (with a couple in Riviera Trains' 'Northern Belle' livery and one in Network Rail yellow). The other 4 are with West Coast Railways, 3 in WCRC Maroon and one in plain blue.
I am aware that the 'Thunderbirds' have been re-liveried and that all but one have lost their International Rescue nameplates. However, I believe VT contracted DRS to continue providing the Thunderbird service and indeed, according to this issue (http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw1502a.htm) of the north Wales rail weekly online newsletter (nwnews (http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm)), "DRS continue to provide a 'Thunderbird' loco at Polmadie, Crewe, Stafford, Preston and Euston ready for use in any rescue missions".

EDIT: Added link to relevant issue of North Wales newsletter, now that the 'nwnwews' link points to a newer issue.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 07, 2015, 08:28:22 pm
(The link to nwnews points at the current issue, and will no longer point at the same page once the next issue comes out).

No problem, Rhydgaled: their website allows access to archive issues (http://www.nwrail.org.uk/archive.cgi) as well. See the edition dated 2 February 2015.  ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 07, 2015, 10:02:46 pm
Virgin Trains no longer make routine use of Class 57/3 'Thunderbirds'. All have been de-named and re-liveried. All 16 have found other homes. 12 are with Direct Rail Services in their 'Compass' liveries (with a couple in Riviera Trains' 'Northern Belle' livery and one in Network Rail yellow). The other 4 are with West Coast Railways, 3 in WCRC Maroon and one in plain blue.
I am aware that the 'Thunderbirds' have been re-liveried and that all but one have lost their International Rescue nameplates. However, I believe VT contracted DRS to continue providing the Thunderbird service and indeed, according to the lastest issue of the north Wales rail weekly online newsletter (nwnews (http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm)), "DRS continue to provide a 'Thunderbird' loco at Polmadie, Crewe, Stafford, Preston and Euston ready for use in any rescue missions". (The link to nwnews points at the current issue, and will no longer point at the same page once the next issue comes out).

You are correct. I should have been clearer that Virgin no longer use all 16 'Thunderbirds' and it is no longer they that lease them directly. The lessee of the remaining Class 57/3s used for occasional 'Thunderbird' duties is DRS. And yes, 57307 retains her 'Lady Penelope' nameplate alongside a unique DRS 'Compass' livery with a very visible warning:

(Unsure of the copyright here, so only a link to the image) http://www.nwrail.org.uk/mr-57307-Crewe--Feb9-compos.jpg

DRS information on the 'Thunderbirds': http://www.directrailservices.com/virgin-thunderbirds.html


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on February 09, 2015, 06:59:36 am
Up Sleeper this morning failed in the Thatcham area with a hot axle box on 57306.  Train limped to Reading at 10mph where it terminated. 
Would imagine the stock will be stuck in a platform at Reading for a while.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: lbraine on February 09, 2015, 07:47:55 am
Confirmed - spotted at 7:45am in Platform 6 - presumably moved there to minimise main line disruption during the rush hour


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Oxonhutch on February 09, 2015, 07:56:10 am
Do you mean Platform 6? (An SE platform).  Saw it in 8 this morning 0645 with a loco on the country end.  Train looked dead and emptied.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: lbraine on February 09, 2015, 08:01:47 am
I did a double take - as I first thought it was 8 - but then noticed it was behind the shortened end of P7. So that's 6 ?

But I was on an HST moving through RDG at good speed - so it was brief. Maybe my aging brain and failing eyes were not fully functional (it is pre-coffee)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: lbraine on February 09, 2015, 08:04:40 am
RTT would suggest my coffee denied body is in the wrong. Nothing moving through P8 this AM at RDG that I can see.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on February 09, 2015, 09:31:11 am
Making it as far as reading sounds an improvement on recent times!  ::)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Jason on February 09, 2015, 09:51:43 am
It was stuck on P8 this morning @ 07:30 with no power car on the country end. There was a non-HST power car (sorry I'm not a rail expert) on the London end and a few people in high vis gear standing around the door.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: The Tall Controller on February 09, 2015, 10:20:56 am
Stock has now been moved out to the east of Reading. Another Sunday night service disrupted again.  :(


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on February 09, 2015, 03:19:28 pm
This was finally rescued around 12:30, by an FGW 57 from what I've been told.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O72328/2015/02/09/advanced


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: The Tall Controller on February 09, 2015, 03:33:40 pm
Not quite. The failed 57 is still residing outside Reading as of 1530. All coaches have gone though.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on February 09, 2015, 03:44:04 pm
Not quite. The failed 57 is still residing outside Reading as of 1530. All coaches have gone though.

If they've left the failed 57 behind sounds like that will be a wheel skate job sometime in the small hours of the morning, 10mph max back to Old Oak.

The rest of the sleeper stock was hauled back by 57602.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on February 09, 2015, 06:01:59 pm
It was indeed - here it is passing Southall just after 2pm.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/5z40.jpg)

The original loco (57306) was in Reading Traincare depot when I passed at 4pm.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 09, 2015, 06:07:34 pm
HST "sleeper" tonight then?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on February 09, 2015, 06:09:05 pm
Not necessarily - the coaches seem fine and there was obviously a working 57 at the London end.  It may however need the Old Oak Common 08 shunter to make an outing to drag the stock into Paddington.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: hoover50 on February 09, 2015, 09:07:06 pm
Up Sleeper this morning failed in the Thatcham area with a hot axle box on 57306.  Train limped to Reading at 10mph where it terminated.

Why don't FGW just admit that the 57's are rubbish and not fit for purpose?

Surely the sensible solution is to use 67's instead.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on February 09, 2015, 09:26:11 pm
Not necessarily - the coaches seem fine and there was obviously a working 57 at the London end.  It may however need the Old Oak Common 08 shunter to make an outing to drag the stock into Paddington.

None of that DRS rubbish tonight, it's a FGW 57 booked to work the sleeper to Penzance so it should make it without a hitch!!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on February 09, 2015, 10:59:06 pm
Not necessarily - the coaches seem fine and there was obviously a working 57 at the London end.  It may however need the Old Oak Common 08 shunter to make an outing to drag the stock into Paddington.

None of that DRS rubbish tonight, it's a FGW 57 booked to work the sleeper to Penzance so it should make it without a hitch!!

And 57604 on the up, should be a good night!

57604 did a trouble free ECS penzance to Laira and back today


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on February 18, 2015, 11:39:34 am
From September 2015 it is looking very likely that the sleepers will cease to be hauled by Class 57s and will be replaced by pairs of Class 67s. The delay in introducing them will allow traction training to be completed at the necessary depots.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on February 18, 2015, 11:57:36 am
If their like the Chiltern ones (or indeed *are* the Chiltern ones as they're giving theirs up for 68s very soon), heaven help the sleepers. Chiltern were getting failures at least weekly, and that was only on 2 hour journeys)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on February 18, 2015, 12:07:40 pm
They will be working in pairs on our sleepers! 

Discussions have been ongoing for several months.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on February 18, 2015, 12:24:24 pm
And if one fails, the other can only pull 5 coaches.....


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 18, 2015, 12:40:41 pm
And if one fails, the other can only pull 5 coaches.....

Eh?  I've seen them pulling 12-coach trains before - the acceleration isn't up to Chiltern Mainline demands when you get to that length, but they're more than capable of hauling a train to the rather leisurely schedule of the sleeper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb432U6Ji7o  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb432U6Ji7o)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rhydgaled on February 18, 2015, 12:41:41 pm
And if one fails, the other can only pull 5 coaches.....
Eh? A single 67 can pull a whole IC225 set (nine mk4s, a mk4 DVT and a class 91 electric locomotive), see this (not my pic) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/75784477@N08/15369112790) and this (also not my pic) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/75784477@N08/15355501228).


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on February 18, 2015, 01:52:34 pm
Chiltern won't put more than 5 coaches + DVT up on one....


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 18, 2015, 02:08:45 pm
Because of their rate of acceleration.  That's why I made my comment them being perfectly adequate for the sleeper schedule with its couple of extra coaches.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on February 18, 2015, 03:25:04 pm
They've been to,d the 67s will work in pairs, that could mean double headed or it could mean top n tailed.  I would think they will top and tail otherwise you'll need another loco at Penzance & Paddington.
Top n tail will probably mean one less driver required to shunt from the depots as well.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on February 18, 2015, 05:01:00 pm
II said:

Quote
That's why I made my comment them being perfectly adequate for the sleeper schedule with its couple of extra coaches.

I am wondering if that would still hold true over the Devon banks? I assume the loco-doubling will address that concern and also provide some resilience - provided that one loco doesn't fail with the banks still to be climbed!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on February 18, 2015, 05:20:32 pm
II said:

Quote
That's why I made my comment them being perfectly adequate for the sleeper schedule with its couple of extra coaches.

I am wondering if that would still hold true over the Devon banks? I assume the loco-doubling will address that concern and also provide some resilience - provided that one loco doesn't fail with the banks still to be climbed!

Especially in leaf fall season. I don't know prone the Class 67 is to slipping.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 18, 2015, 05:49:26 pm
How old are the class 67s?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on February 18, 2015, 06:00:13 pm
How old are the class 67s?

15 years - introduced 1999 and 2000


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 18, 2015, 06:02:24 pm
How old are the class 67s?

15 years - introduced 1999 and 2000

Youngsters!  :)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on February 18, 2015, 06:55:59 pm
Class 67^s have a more powerful engine installed than Class 57^s, but of course they have less adhesion because of their weight and they are geared for 125mph against 95 mph for Class 57/3.  One could question why you put 125 mph locos on sleeper trains, but maybe they will be regeared.

Worth noting that a Class 67 has almost twice the continuous tractive effort (ie drawbar pull) of a Class 43 HST Power Car. So they aren^t complete wimps. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on February 18, 2015, 07:25:11 pm
One could question why you put 125 mph locos on sleeper trains


Because there is nothing else available and they can't continue with the 57's given their reliability.  When it comes to overhauling the 57's they had to go to South Africa for replacement wheelsets.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 06, 2015, 08:17:31 am
So near, yet so far.

The westbound sleeper made it to Truro before being terminated due to technical problems with the loco.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: The Tall Controller on March 06, 2015, 10:56:34 pm
Failed with a GSMR problem on the loco. Thinking it was initially the problem was just in the front cab, a spare driver was shoved in the back cab but it proved to be the whole loco.

A shame after a quite a rosy period of reliability.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on March 06, 2015, 11:54:49 pm
A shame after a quite a rosy period of reliability.

Rosy, or rose tinted?

I make it just 20 odd days since the last Night Riviera failure.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on March 07, 2015, 07:13:06 am
A shame after a quite a rosy period of reliability.

Rosy, or rose tinted?

I make it just 20 odd days since the last Night Riviera failure.

That's about a 2000% improvement!
It was at least once every night, if not both every night.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 07, 2015, 11:23:51 am
It was touch and go with the down sleeper last night, but in the end a fault was rectified in the nick of time.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: thetrout on March 07, 2015, 07:02:04 pm
FGW haven't given up on the sleepers however! I think there is some determination here ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 07, 2015, 08:12:30 pm
I'm booked on it on April 12th - and you know what a jinx I am!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernowman on March 15, 2015, 10:37:48 pm
Looks like 1C86 1506 Pad to Pnz has hit both of the failed trains on its journey today. Doh!  ::)

And 1C87 (the 16:06 Pad to Pnz) is now running ahead of it.  Might have been better to wait at Westbury than go round via Bristol, but hindsight is a marvellous thing!

Reminds me of when I was on the 16.06 Pad to PZ in August 2013, it failed at Castle Cary and required fitter attention. Most passengers did a pair of units (2 x 150 I think) on the Weymouth back to Westbury for a following Pad service which was being diverted via Bristol. A few of us stayed on the stricken HST, eventually a fitter arrived by road from Bristol fixed the problem and we were in Taunton an hour before everyone else :o


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 18, 2015, 05:51:50 am

21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:23
This train has been delayed from Penzance and is now 112 minutes late.
This is due to a train fault.

.........a lie-in for some this morning!!!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on March 18, 2015, 05:59:15 am

21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:23
This train has been delayed from Penzance and is now 112 minutes late.
This is due to a train fault.

.........a lie-in for some this morning!!!

Currently at Slough (at 05:53) ... should be in Paddington in the next 25 minutes - around half the lateness recovered.  Hope they don't lie in too long or they'll b back out at Old Oak!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Super Guard on March 18, 2015, 09:12:09 am
49 late at Paddington.

Fault reported as something to do with GSMR Radio.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on March 22, 2015, 08:30:16 pm
Ok fitter already been called to tonight's up sleeper and we haven't left pz yet can't be to bad cus he only had a couple of screwdrivers with him ain't surprised though it is a drs loco on the front! Will update when we have left!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on March 22, 2015, 09:24:27 pm
Ok so we haven't left yet there is a outstanding brake issue and also gsmr is playing up!!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on March 22, 2015, 09:57:10 pm
Loco failed now a hst when it arrives


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 22, 2015, 09:58:26 pm
Oh, no.  ::) :o


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on March 22, 2015, 10:30:31 pm
Finally on the move on a replacement hst feel sorry for people who had a sleeper birth booked


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernowman on March 23, 2015, 02:53:33 am
Loco failed now a hst when it arrives

Oh dear!
Did do you have to wait for an incoming HST to arrive to form the replacement or did they use one off Longrock? Longrock should have three HSTs on a Sunday prior to the sleepers departure time, with a further two arriving later.  :o

Km


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on March 23, 2015, 04:58:36 am
70 late off Penzance ... and just arrived into Paddington 12 minutes early at 04:55  ::)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Timmer on March 23, 2015, 05:47:43 am
Let's hope when they announce the franchise extension in the next few days it includes what they intend to do about motive power for the sleeper service as this is becoming ridiculous.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 23, 2015, 05:50:58 am
Sleepless night for many no doubt

0509 PLY-PAD starting from Exeter this morning so I'm guessing that was the HST set that got pinched........I can't imagine it being a pleasant journey this morning for those expected to cram onto the 0530 at Plymouth......what a start to the week.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on March 23, 2015, 06:43:04 am
0509 PLY-PAD starting from Exeter this morning so I'm guessing that was the HST set that got pinched........I can't imagine it being a pleasant journey this morning for those expected to cram onto the 0530 at Plymouth......what a start to the week.

I'm not sure that the 05:09 would be terribly busy before Exeter?   It's the service that goes via Bristol and the 05:30 gets to Reading and London first, so the loss i doing to most effect those from south of Exeter travelling to stations between Bridgewater and Swindon / Didcot, and connecting on northwards.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on March 23, 2015, 07:11:27 am
Loco failed now a hst when it arrives

Oh dear!
Did do you have to wait for an incoming HST to arrive to form the replacement or did they use one off Longrock? Longrock should have three HSTs on a Sunday prior to the sleepers departure time, with a further two arriving later.  :o

Km

We had to wait for a hst from long rock wich needed servicing and most importantly fuel!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 23, 2015, 09:34:46 am
70 late off Penzance ... and just arrived into Paddington 12 minutes early at 04:55  ::)

............I hope they were met with tea and buns!

Especially as I understand they had to get off the train straightaway on arrival!

I'm sure FGW Customer Service teams would have swung into action to make sure the passengers were adequately cared for after what was probably a pretty unpleasant trip?  :-\


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: stuving on March 23, 2015, 10:11:13 am
I'm sure FGW Customer Service teams would have swung into action to make sure the passengers were adequately cared for after what was probably a pretty unpleasant trip?  :-\

And I'm sure they will have been cheered up to see FGW's promises for the new franchise, suggesting that within a few years they will have an upgraded sleeper train with "new, more comfortable interiors and an on-board lounge bar" to be turfed off when its loco fails.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Louis94 on March 23, 2015, 12:15:47 pm
0509 PLY-PAD starting from Exeter this morning so I'm guessing that was the HST set that got pinched........I can't imagine it being a pleasant journey this morning for those expected to cram onto the 0530 at Plymouth......what a start to the week.

0509 from Plymouth is a really quiet train, I have travelled on it many times and been the only person on-board. No big deal anyway, the 0520 Crosscountry service overtakes it at Taunton.

The set for the 0509 was used to for an extra ECS to Penzance for the 0741 Penzance to London, the set for that obviously being used for the sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 26, 2015, 07:06:11 am
.....a nice lie-in in Penzance! (and yet another fault!)

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:53
This train has been delayed from London Paddington and is now 90 minutes late.
This is due to a train fault.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 26, 2015, 07:37:01 am
Leading loco developed a fault before leaving Paddington so the train went for a little jaunt to Greenford and back to turn it round. The loco which had formerly been on the back then took it west.  Was running right time by the time it got to Devon.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 26, 2015, 07:52:39 am
......an impressive recovery!  :)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on March 29, 2015, 10:18:19 am
I'm booked on it on April 12th - and you know what a jinx I am!

Due to all lines in the Thames Valley being shut on the 12th I notice that the down sleeper that night leaves Pad at 03:10


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 29, 2015, 10:48:39 am
I am booked on it.  Apparently the stock will be in Paddington at the usual time and will arrive in Penzance at 09:17 - only slightly later than a normal Monday.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on March 29, 2015, 10:50:15 am
You'll get better sleep stationary in PAD


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 29, 2015, 10:51:06 am
A couple of G&Ts and I can sleep on the move! 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 29, 2015, 08:28:33 pm
I'll allow tonic water with gin ...  ;) :D ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 30, 2015, 05:49:01 am
I'll allow tonic water with gin ...  ;) :D ;D

.....as long as it's Plymouth gin of course!  :D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 30, 2015, 06:20:49 am
Sadly no longer available on FGW trains.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on April 03, 2015, 05:34:13 pm
I see there is a set of sleeper stock at laira today. Must be having some tlc? And did I read somewhere that sleepers will be hst sets this weekend?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Timmer on April 03, 2015, 05:39:25 pm
I see there is a set of sleeper stock at laira today. Must be having some tlc? And did I read somewhere that sleepers will be hst sets this weekend?
You did, HSTs to/from Waterloo.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 03, 2015, 05:54:52 pm
I see there is a set of sleeper stock at laira today. Must be having some tlc? And did I read somewhere that sleepers will be hst sets this weekend?

I was just about to post the same. From RTT the set in Laira worked the down on Wednesday night then ran ECS penzance to Laira Wednesday afternoon.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on April 03, 2015, 06:03:23 pm
So if I'm correct that means both sets are down here? and I wonder how many people will be using the night hsts or even know it's an hst service obvious the people who tried booking a birth will know. Well least it would be a quicker service lol


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 03, 2015, 08:05:53 pm
So if I'm correct that means both sets are down here? and I wonder how many people will be using the night hsts or even know it's an hst service obvious the people who tried booking a birth will know. Well least it would be a quicker service lol

Correct. Tuesday night down is HST London to plymouth where it will be subbed with the sleeper set at Laira. Depending on the reading works that set could go from either paddington or waterloo.
Tuesday up is a sleeper set to reposition them
There are also at least 3 class 57s down west this weekend. 57604 and a DRS class 57 at penzance and there is a FGW class 57 at Laira.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on April 03, 2015, 10:35:52 pm
According to RTT its Monday night not Tuesday that its an HST to Plymouth with the sleeper onwards, Up is the sleeper set.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 03, 2015, 10:56:28 pm
Full details from the Easter Guide

Quote
The Night Riviera Sleeper
Friday 3 to Monday 6 April
London to Penzance
Departs from London Paddington at 2233 on the night of Thursday 2 April.

On Friday 3, Sunday 5 and Monday 6 April the Sleeper will not operate. Instead there will be an overnight High Speed Train service from London Waterloo to
Penzance offering seated accommodation only.

Penzance to London
Runs normally from Penzance to London Paddington on Wednesday 1 April.

On Thursday 2, Friday 3 and Sunday 5 April the Sleeper will not operate. Instead there will be an overnight High Speed Train service from Penzance to
London Waterloo offering seated accommodation only.

Tuesday 7 to Saturday 11 April
London to Penzance
From Tuesday 7 April to Friday 10 April the Sleeper will run normally from London Paddington to Penzance.

Penzance to London
From Monday 6 April to Friday 10 April the Sleeper will run normally from Penzance to London Paddington.

Sunday 12 April

London to Penzance
Retimed to depart from London Paddington at 0310 on Monday 13 April.

Penzance to London
Runs normally, departing Penzance at 2115.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: trainer on April 03, 2015, 11:09:41 pm
obvious the people who tried booking a birth will know.

I was just wondering if this alternative birthing arrangement is available through the NHS?  ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 04, 2015, 09:10:10 am
Has anyone on here got experience of an "overnight HST service" rather than a sleeper? I can't imagine it's the most enjoyable experience or conducive to getting much kip, especially in Standard class?

Is catering available throughout the night?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: higthomas on April 05, 2015, 07:19:01 pm
Why cant the sleeper operate out of Waterloo?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: John R on April 05, 2015, 08:44:12 pm
This is a guess, but the sleeper stock is Mk 3.  As has been noted on another thread this diversionary weekend, Mk 3 stock can only run over third rail if the bogies are of a particular type (Short Swing Link). Some HST stock was so designed when the Cross Country sets were ordered that were planned be used between Basingstoke and Poole. Any other Mk 3 stock, including many HST vehicles, and also the sleeper stock, is not be able to run into Waterloo.

You've also got the issue that a sleeper service requires more platform occupation time, and whilst unlikely to be a problem at 2300, is certainly an issue on its arrival from the West Country in the morning rush hour. Though that may be less of an issue over the bank holiday.


 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 05, 2015, 09:50:02 pm
If I recall correctly the sleepers used to run to Waterloo rather than Paddington for a period of time (via Kensington Olympia).  Can't remember exactly when but may have been in the late 1990s :-\


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on April 05, 2015, 10:09:22 pm
There is also nowhere to service the sleeper stock after it would arrive in Waterloo. First you'd need a stabled locomotive nearby to haul the stock out as there are no release points at Waterloo for the arriving locomotive. Then you'd need to get the stock to somewhere it can be serviced and that is, realistically, only Old Oak Common. That means drivers with the right route knowledge to move the set through West London.

And if there's a failure? A not uncommon occurrence with the Night Riviera these days. SWT and Network Rail would not be impressed if one of their platforms or approach tracks was out of action in the morning rush hour.

Just too risky logistically for a relatively small number of passengers. So, while not ideal, an overnight HST is the best compromise.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 05, 2015, 10:48:12 pm
If I recall correctly the sleepers used to run to Waterloo rather than Paddington for a period of time (via Kensington Olympia).  Can't remember exactly when but may have been in the late 1990s :-\

They did, late 90s or even early 00s, as I recall reading the timetables as a child when visiting my grandads planning trips. He left the UK in 2004. I would imagine I was somewhere between 10 and 14 to show such an interest yet still recall the memories.
My grandad is responsible for my interests as he used to take me on trips most weekends by rail.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on April 05, 2015, 10:55:44 pm
According to the following link, Great Western Trains ran the Sleeper to and from Waterloo from May 1995 to September 1998.

http://www.avoe05.dsl.pipex.com/Sheepcote%20Lane%20curve.htm

Things were very different 20 years ago.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 06, 2015, 07:48:32 am
Thanks BNM.  Memory not as bad as I thought then ::) :P


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rhydgaled on April 06, 2015, 11:08:25 am
According to the following link, Great Western Trains ran the Sleeper to and from Waterloo from May 1995 to September 1998.

http://www.avoe05.dsl.pipex.com/Sheepcote%20Lane%20curve.htm

Things were very different 20 years ago.
Does that mean the loco-hauled mark3s are the right type (Short Swing Link?) to run over 3rd rail then, and it is only some IC125 trailer mark3s that can't go on 3rd rail routes?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernowman on April 12, 2015, 07:10:26 pm
According to the following link, Great Western Trains ran the Sleeper to and from Waterloo from May 1995 to September 1998.

http://www.avoe05.dsl.pipex.com/Sheepcote%20Lane%20curve.htm

Things were very different 20 years ago.

I believe that the idea of sending the sleeper into Waterloo was partly to connect with Waterloo Eurostar services. About this time there was also a proposed Plymouth to Paris sleeper, remember that?
Arguably there is an untapped market for sleeper and motorail services from London to destinations across Europe and even Asia, just look at some of the sleeper and motorail services that run in Continental Europe, some of which change gauge on route. But I'm going off topic a bit here!  :o   


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on April 12, 2015, 08:09:42 pm
just look at some of the sleeper and motorail services that run in Continental Europe, some of which change gauge on route.

There are no gauge changing sleeper or motorail services in Europe.

Sleeper and motorail services in Europe have been drastically cut in the last few years.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Brucey on April 12, 2015, 08:17:12 pm
I think (if correctly configured and promoted) a continental sleeper service could prove to be useful to business travellers.  Waking yourself up at 4am to get a taxi to Stansted/Heathrow/Bristol/Gatwick/City/etc for the 7am flight followed by a full day of work isn't ideal.  At least with a sleeper, you get to arrive refreshed.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on April 12, 2015, 08:55:55 pm
Such a service was envisaged during Channel Tunnel construction. Some rolling stock was even built.

Nightstar, as it was called, was cancelled due to lack of a business case, rising costs and the need for border controls at regional stations. The rolling stock was sold to Canada.

I think that business case is even worse now.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on April 13, 2015, 05:30:24 am
Back on topic - currntly 29 late, due PAD 0537


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 13, 2015, 07:07:06 am
Meanwhile the down is 40 late at Newton Abbot.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on April 13, 2015, 07:18:31 am
Meanwhile the down is 40 late at Newton Abbot.
that's not to bad compared to back in the winter


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 13, 2015, 07:33:37 pm
It was 31 late at Truro this morning, so made a bit up.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 13, 2015, 11:48:11 pm
Still missed the St Ives connection at St Erth by less than a minute.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 14, 2015, 07:19:04 am
Still missed the St Ives connection at St Erth by less than a minute.

I've seen this so many times not just with the sleeper but any service.
Last week I watched the St Ives train pull away as passengers were about half way along the up platform from a 6 minute late down train.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on April 14, 2015, 09:17:33 am
The problem with the StIves Branch is that it is quite an intensive service back and fro that any delay could make the shuttle late for the rest of the day.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on April 14, 2015, 11:36:43 am
Indeed so, during the day there will never be more than a 30 min. wait for the next one.

I was in the area over Easter, the St Ives Branch was massively busy at times.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 14, 2015, 11:46:29 am
Indeed so, during the day there will never be more than a 30 min. wait for the next one.

I was just unlucky. The only 40 min daytime gap -   09:38 and then 10:18


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: rower40 on April 14, 2015, 12:14:24 pm
Indeed so, during the day there will never be more than a 30 min. wait for the next one.

I was just unlucky. The only 40 min daytime gap -   09:38 and then 10:18
I guess the driver and guard need a minute or two for a cuppa now and again...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 14, 2015, 01:25:53 pm
I don't know if it is usual practice but yesterday they had a driver each end which saved time at the turn rounds.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 14, 2015, 05:14:15 pm
I don't know if it is usual practice but yesterday they had a driver each end which saved time at the turn rounds.
Thats done quite often (mostly in the summer months) as due to the crowds on the platform and getting off the train at St.Ives it would be impossible for the driver to reach the other end in the short turnaround time ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on April 14, 2015, 05:21:58 pm
I don't know if it is usual practice but yesterday they had a driver each end which saved time at the turn rounds.
Thats done quite often (mostly in the summer months) as due to the crowds on the platform and getting off the train at St.Ives it would be impossible for the driver to reach the other end in the short turnaround time ;)

Is the limit up to 4 carriages max due the length of lelant and carbis bay platforms cus I've only ever seen 4 carriages


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 14, 2015, 09:44:11 pm
I don't know if it is usual practice but yesterday they had a driver each end which saved time at the turn rounds.
Thats done quite often (mostly in the summer months) as due to the crowds on the platform and getting off the train at St.Ives it would be impossible for the driver to reach the other end in the short turnaround time ;)

Is the limit up to 4 carriages max due the length of lelant and carbis bay platforms cus I've only ever seen 4 carriages

I can only find up to 4 carriages in pictures on Flickr, except this 2+11 in 1995. Some kind of charter I guess.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/25025911@N08/16311972734/in/photolist-8xikzn-qX6DVc-gpNSQG-atcTvm-8nH4Dv-pkzQus-75aH35-pVgnqC-atcTXy-onyd3F-756LcH-qExiKC-qEDe7B-qEDeKk-rL99mA-6Sqm9p-p68tx4-p681kG-4ou7gw-8ReefG-aiojVE-g8wT8W-75awqw-djDtkt-75ati5-756ydc-pnBunM-p68j2S-pnkgpF-adBz1X-qRr8cd-pkrxBi-fCauVU-75at6d-75aCch-75aBYh-9uaaxS-pnk3LK-pnAgmL-p689pg-p68sr9-p68sHt-p689bF-g8vThT-ehbXMH-fpbLe5-q1j13R-qEEWTt-8xzYFt-fzD9Qu/


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: trainer on April 14, 2015, 10:36:21 pm

I can only find up to 4 carriages in pictures on Flickr, except this 2+11 in 1995. Some kind of charter I guess.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/25025911@N08/16311972734/in/photolist-8xikzn-qX6DVc-gpNSQG-atcTvm-8nH4Dv-pkzQus-75aH35-pVgnqC-atcTXy-onyd3F-756LcH-qExiKC-qEDe7B-qEDeKk-rL99mA-6Sqm9p-p68tx4-p681kG-4ou7gw-8ReefG-aiojVE-g8wT8W-75awqw-djDtkt-75ati5-756ydc-pnBunM-p68j2S-pnkgpF-adBz1X-qRr8cd-pkrxBi-fCauVU-75at6d-75aCch-75aBYh-9uaaxS-pnk3LK-pnAgmL-p689pg-p68sr9-p68sHt-p689bF-g8vThT-ehbXMH-fpbLe5-q1j13R-qEEWTt-8xzYFt-fzD9Qu/

This must be a particularly steamy image as it is flagged as "Adult Content" and you have to sign in to see it.  :D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 14, 2015, 10:55:39 pm

I can only find up to 4 carriages in pictures on Flickr, except this 2+11 in 1995. Some kind of charter I guess.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/25025911@N08/16311972734/in/photolist-8xikzn-qX6DVc-gpNSQG-atcTvm-8nH4Dv-pkzQus-75aH35-pVgnqC-atcTXy-onyd3F-756LcH-qExiKC-qEDe7B-qEDeKk-rL99mA-6Sqm9p-p68tx4-p681kG-4ou7gw-8ReefG-aiojVE-g8wT8W-75awqw-djDtkt-75ati5-756ydc-pnBunM-p68j2S-pnkgpF-adBz1X-qRr8cd-pkrxBi-fCauVU-75at6d-75aCch-75aBYh-9uaaxS-pnk3LK-pnAgmL-p689pg-p68sr9-p68sHt-p689bF-g8vThT-ehbXMH-fpbLe5-q1j13R-qEEWTt-8xzYFt-fzD9Qu/

This must be a particularly steamy image as it is flagged as "Adult Content" and you have to sign in to see it.  :D


It's 37696, she isn't puffing out much steam though....

I've noticed that a lot on Flickr, where innocent pictures are flagged adult content. I was looking through pictures of old volvos and 3 were marked adult. Yet i innocently stumbled across pictures of what I thought should be adult completely unflagged.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernowman on April 17, 2015, 11:58:20 pm
just look at some of the sleeper and motorail services that run in Continental Europe, some of which change gauge on route.

There are no gauge changing sleeper or motorail services in Europe.

Sleeper and motorail services in Europe have been drastically cut in the last few years.
Apologies, my knowledge of European services is a couple of years out of date.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernowman on April 18, 2015, 12:03:42 am
I don't know if it is usual practice but yesterday they had a driver each end which saved time at the turn rounds.
Thats done quite often (mostly in the summer months) as due to the crowds on the platform and getting off the train at St.Ives it would be impossible for the driver to reach the other end in the short turnaround time ;)

Is the limit up to 4 carriages max due the length of lelant and carbis bay platforms cus I've only ever seen 4 carriages

I can only find up to 4 carriages in pictures on Flickr, except this 2+11 in 1995. Some kind of charter I guess.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/25025911@N08/16311972734/in/photolist-8xikzn-qX6DVc-gpNSQG-atcTvm-8nH4Dv-pkzQus-75aH35-pVgnqC-atcTXy-onyd3F-756LcH-qExiKC-qEDe7B-qEDeKk-rL99mA-6Sqm9p-p68tx4-p681kG-4ou7gw-8ReefG-aiojVE-g8wT8W-75awqw-djDtkt-75ati5-756ydc-pnBunM-p68j2S-pnkgpF-adBz1X-qRr8cd-pkrxBi-fCauVU-75at6d-75aCch-75aBYh-9uaaxS-pnk3LK-pnAgmL-p689pg-p68sr9-p68sHt-p689bF-g8vThT-ehbXMH-fpbLe5-q1j13R-qEEWTt-8xzYFt-fzD9Qu/

For most of the eighties the St Ives tended to be a pair of 'Heritage units' in the summer which meant you could get either 2+2 or 2+3 or 3+3 carriage formations. (mind you platform lengths weren't such an issue in those days) :o


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 21, 2015, 11:48:39 pm
Something a bit different tonight - the westbound sleeper is starting from Bristol Temple Meads tonight due to staff sickness.

The 23:30 from Paddington was held back 15 minutes to provide a connection into it.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Pb_devon on April 22, 2015, 07:44:47 am
Something a bit different tonight - the westbound sleeper is starting from Bristol Temple Meads tonight due to staff sickness.

The 23:30 from Paddington was held back 15 minutes to provide a connection into it.

 ???

There has to be a plausable reason, but I cannot think of one!  Any offers anyone?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Louis94 on April 22, 2015, 08:30:18 am
Something a bit different tonight - the westbound sleeper is starting from Bristol Temple Meads tonight due to staff sickness.

The 23:30 from Paddington was held back 15 minutes to provide a connection into it.

 ???

There has to be a plausable reason, but I cannot think of one!  Any offers anyone?



Considering the crew for the sleeper come up working a service from Exeter, anything could of happened to make them report sick on arrival.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2015, 08:54:30 am
......food poisoning from the buffet? Gastroenteritis from using one of the filthy toilets? Any number of possibilities!  :D

More seriously though, surely there should be a backup/standby resource to cover for these circumstances?

Presumably those with berths will be refunded as they won't have got a lot of sleep?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on April 22, 2015, 01:02:17 pm
If the sleeper crew start at the depot, and work a train to Exeter, then I would expect that spare crew ARE available at the depot in case of sickness etc resulting in non arrival.
I doubt that it would be viable however to have spare crew AT Exeter in case one of the crew falls ill en-route.

Usually, if train crew or indeed other staff, arrive fit for work at the proper time then they will remain fit for the rest of the shift. If however someone arrives fit for work, but becomes unfit during the shift, then cancellation or curtailment of a train may be unavoidable.
And yes food poisoning can occur very suddenly part way through a shift, typically within a few hours of eating the tainted food, hopefully not from a train buffet.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on April 23, 2015, 09:59:08 pm
Do I understand correctly that a Mr Cameron made use of the down sleeper last night?

No doubt it ran like clockwork otherwise we would have heard about it.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 23, 2015, 10:04:17 pm
If the Daily Mail is to be believed, he did - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3052000/David-Cameron-gets-night-train-Penzance-looking-dishevelled.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3052000/David-Cameron-gets-night-train-Penzance-looking-dishevelled.html)

Quote
David Cameron likes to project an image as the 'chillaxing' statesman unruffled by political troubles - but this morning his usual demeanour seemed to desert him as he donned a bizarre outfit on the campaign trail.

The Prime Minister looked exhausted as he stepped off the sleeper train at Penzance today, ahead of a speech in which he delivered his 'plan for Cornwall'.

The Conservatives are battling against their Coalition partners in the South-West as they seek to wrest control of key constituencies from the Liberal Democrats.

But Mr Cameron is still trailing Ed Miliband's Labour Party nationally, with just 14 days to go until polling day.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/23/10/27E3EEF800000578-3052000-image-m-3_1429782335929.jpg)



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Surrey 455 on April 23, 2015, 10:04:45 pm
Do I understand correctly that a Mr Cameron made use of the down sleeper last night?

No doubt it ran like clockwork otherwise we would have heard about it.

Wow, you wrote this at least 3 minutes after I read it. Time now 9.58pm


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 23, 2015, 10:29:58 pm
Do I understand correctly that a Mr Cameron made use of the down sleeper last night?

No doubt it ran like clockwork otherwise we would have heard about it.

It had two locos last night. He didn't look very refreshed in some pictures of him exiting the train this morning,


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 23, 2015, 10:54:01 pm
At least he travels by train, a certain Conservative predecessor of his was very averse to using them.  :)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on May 03, 2015, 08:54:42 pm
Hmm waiting for up sleeper at penzance. Currently the men with tools are attending! As soon as I typed this the man with the tools has left so should be all ok now!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on May 03, 2015, 09:16:14 pm
all good so far left on time


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 04, 2015, 12:02:23 am
Orange-clad man with spanner: "Quick, lads, duck down - I think Palfers has spotted us - we'll be mentioned on the Coffee Shop forum next!"   ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on May 04, 2015, 08:50:00 am
Well the guy did not hang around long straight  out into his car proberly hoping no one spotted him haha


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on May 09, 2015, 10:45:37 pm
Does anyone know if they are going to use the sleeper seats during the day on Saturdays through the Sumer or is that not happening this summer? Or is the risk of problems to much?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on May 10, 2015, 04:38:58 pm
Does anyone know if they are going to use the sleeper seats during the day on Saturdays through the Sumer or is that not happening this summer? Or is the risk of problems to much?

Yes, by all reports.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 13, 2015, 07:00:00 am
A delay for the up sleeper overnight.  Apparently problems with the connection between the loco and the leading coach.  The whole train turned on the Laira triangle at Plymouth and the loco attached to the other end.  Left Plymouth over an hour and a half late but made it all up by Paddington.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 13, 2015, 06:21:53 pm
Left Plymouth over an hour and a half late but made it all up by Paddington.

Ah, the wonders of including "padding ton" in the timetable ... ::) ;) ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ellendune on May 13, 2015, 08:04:55 pm
Left Plymouth over an hour and a half late but made it all up by Paddington.

Ah, the wonders of including "padding ton" in the timetable ... ::) ;) ;D
On this particular service why not.  Passengers do not want to arrive in the middle of the night?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 13, 2015, 08:29:33 pm
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you, ellendune - I merely find it amusing that some trains can start so late, but still arrive 'on time'.  ;) :D ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 13, 2015, 08:53:52 pm
Having been on a sleeper that has made up time, it was a very bumpy ride and I didn't sleep well, so it's probably not ideal


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 13, 2015, 08:58:47 pm
Ah, the quintessential dichotomy: would you prefer to arrive on time, or get a good night's sleep?  ::) ;) ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 13, 2015, 09:02:54 pm
Ah, the quintessential dichotomy: would you prefer to arrive on time, or get a good night's sleep?  ::) ;) ;D

I was on a leisure trip. Arriving in London at say 7-8 would of been nicer than 5am.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: thetrout on May 16, 2015, 09:12:17 pm
There are no gauge changing sleeper or motorail services in Europe.

Sleeper and motorail services in Europe have been drastically cut in the last few years.
Apologies, my knowledge of European services is a couple of years out of date.

Almost... But not quite.

The Europe - Russia sleeper changes gauge at Brest on the Polish - Belorussian border. Sleeper cars are jacked up one by one and the gauges are changed.

Quote from: Seat61
Russian track gauge is 5', but most of Europe (including the UK) is 4' 8^", so at Brest on the Belarus frontier the sleeping-cars are shunted into a shed, each car is separated and jacked up to have its bogies (wheelsets) changed. You remain on board while this is done, quite an experience.  Once in Russia, the scenery is rolling hills, birch tree forests, and villages of small wooden houses.  Approaching Moscow, you may catch a glimpse of the plaques on the station building marked '1812' and '1942' as the train passes through the small station of historic Borodino...  Map of Moscow showing Byelorruski station.

http://www.seat61.com/Russia.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2plrM6dOcTQ

Also in Spain, many Alvia and Altaris trains change gauge on route. I know for certain this is true for Madrid - Alicante and Madrid - Murcia having done both routes. Train goes through a metal shed which changes the gauge as the train passes through. This is done at relatively slow speed for a Long Distance InterCity service. But with a station call shortly before/after (depending which direction you travel) the gauge changer it doesn't really impact on time of journey :)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2015, 05:53:42 am
Ouch.........nice lie-in for some I guess.


23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:53

This train has been delayed from London Paddington and is now 205 minutes late.
This is due to a train fault.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on June 18, 2015, 10:12:44 am
Only an hour late in the end


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2015, 10:59:40 am
Yes I saw that it had made up time, missed out most of the smaller Cornish stations too which helped - any idea what the problem was?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on June 18, 2015, 12:02:36 pm
There was a defect with one of the sleeper berth carriages. The set had to return empty to Old Oak to shunt out the defective carriage.

Less of a lie-in for passengers, more like very late to bed.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernow Otter on June 18, 2015, 02:42:24 pm
Yes I saw that it had made up time, missed out most of the smaller Cornish stations too which helped - any idea what the problem was?

Helped who exactly?  Presumably not those who rely on the sleeper stopping at the smaller Cornish Stations to get to work.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2015, 02:48:57 pm
Yes I saw that it had made up time, missed out most of the smaller Cornish stations too which helped - any idea what the problem was?

Helped who exactly?  Presumably not those who rely on the sleeper stopping at the smaller Cornish Stations to get to work.

Sorry I mean it "helped" the sleeper make up time........I should have used inverted commas first time around!  :)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on July 22, 2015, 08:30:09 am
Up Sleeper loco failed between Bodmin Parkway and Liskeard last night. 57604 Pendennis Castle was the errant loco.

Back to back HST power cars were sent from Laira to rescue the set. Arrived Liskeard 160 late.

Passengers woken and detrained at Plymouth and transferred to a HST for onward travel to London. Stops at Totnes, Newton Abbot and Taunton were omitted. Arrived Paddington 50 late.

As a consequence of substituting the Up Sleeper with a HST set the 0712 Taunton - London Paddington via stations to Bristol TM was cancelled.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on July 22, 2015, 08:43:21 am
As a result the 07:12 from Taunton to London Paddington was cancelled as the HST set had been used for the sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on July 22, 2015, 04:57:48 pm
Read on Facebook that an electrical fire was the cause.

57605 is also due to return to OOC from Derby this week following its refit.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on July 23, 2015, 06:35:13 am
The up sleeper failed again last night, loss of lighting in the carriages. Currently in platform 7 at Plymouth as at 0615 this morning. Believe passengers got a HST again.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on July 23, 2015, 06:43:28 am
Which once again appears to have affected the 07:12 from Taunton


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 23, 2015, 08:56:16 am
The up sleeper failed again last night, loss of lighting in the carriages. Currently in platform 7 at Plymouth as at 0615 this morning. Believe passengers got a HST again.

............that'll be a few more customers choosing to drive/fly from Newquay in future then?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on July 23, 2015, 02:04:33 pm
This is a very poor performance indeed.
Any reasonable person would accept that things go wrong, but it really should not be happening this often.

Is the great re-branding just cosmetic WRT the sleeper ? or will it include things like engines that can make it all the way regularly.

With the SETs soon to replace some of the HSTs on daytime services, perhaps it might be worth considering use of HST power cars on the sleeper instead of conventional locomotives.
This is a non trivial alteration on account of the different electrical systems, but it might be worth re wiring sleeper stock so as to utilise 3 phase auxiliary power as produced by HSTs
Having a standard power car at each end would avoid the time taken in detaching and coupling an engine as at present, and would permit of easy reversals en-route when engineering work requires this.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 23, 2015, 04:24:22 pm
A costly and short-term solution I'd have thought?  Better to lease/buy some Class 68s, which seem to be settling in quite well on Chiltern?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on July 23, 2015, 04:37:20 pm
A costly and short-term solution I'd have thought?  Better to lease/buy some Class 68s, which seem to be settling in quite well on Chiltern?

Possibly, my suggestion is by no means the only option and yours might be a better choice, doing nothing is not a realistic option.
HST power cars should be affordable when fewer are required for day services, but new 68s might be better still.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on July 24, 2015, 04:08:30 pm
someone jokingly said to me a few weeks ago why don't they use a steam loco for the sleeper. I know it's not a realistic idea but I wonder would a steam loco be more reliable? and wouldn't it be nice to see a West Country loco hauling the sleeper I wonder if passenger numbers would increase to


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on July 24, 2015, 04:30:22 pm
I doubt that many more people would use the sleeper if a steamer was used, the idea of the sleeper is to sleep  :) and for most of the year it is dark for most of the trip.
A well maintained steamer might be a bit more reliable than the diesels used now, but that is not saying much !

I would hope for reliable diesels, old or new for the sleeper, and the odd daytime steam special.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on July 24, 2015, 07:30:55 pm
If you used steam, you'd need a generator carriage too for hotel power.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on July 24, 2015, 08:09:05 pm
..and a few water stops.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on July 24, 2015, 08:41:06 pm
and where would you turn the loco around at pz and padd also stocking up on coal


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on July 24, 2015, 09:40:06 pm
and where would you turn the loco around at pz and padd also stocking up on coal

Where there's a will ... St Blazey, via Greenford and Southall.   But I don't think there should be a way taken except for a very rare historic celebration ...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on August 16, 2015, 09:46:03 pm
 :( no buffet on up sleeper tonight! due to a crew shortage I don't know if this will be for the entire journey. but where am I supposed to get a cup of aero hot chocolate to now? I do like the aero hot chocolate a lot!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 16, 2015, 09:50:07 pm
Usually the same person works the buffet throughout the whole journey so I fear you may be out of luck.  The last time that happened to me they did at least announce it before departure from Penzance so there was time to rush to the shops for supplies.

Hopefully anyone joining further up the line will have seen your post and be prepared.  ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on August 16, 2015, 09:56:13 pm
luckily I bought some food before hand if I known the buffet was shut I would have got a coffee beforehand but I was to late for that   ???


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 16, 2015, 10:05:37 pm
Busiest night of the week on the up too. Hopefully it won't stop you getting a hot drink in the morning - although there is always the first class lounge at Paddington.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Palfers on August 16, 2015, 10:14:33 pm
luckily I'm only going as far as plymouth. I normally get a drink to try and stay awake which I struggle with after a busy weekend. I just feel sorry for everyone else who's going all the way.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on August 17, 2015, 12:43:02 pm
It's three years or so since I was a weekly user of the sleeper, so I may be behind the times, but there always seemed to be a minimum of two crew working the buffet..?

Also have to say this would never happen in the hotel sector, someone would jump in and takeover rather than have the bar closed and turn away paying customers. All seems a bit British Rail tbh.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 18, 2015, 08:27:07 am
Down sleeper failed last night, everyone chucked off at Newton Abbot for buses to Penzance, failed train blocked the line too which didn't help this morning's Westcountry services


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 18, 2015, 09:55:48 am
I think the delays to other services were more due to a problem with the signalling in the Totnes area.  The sleeper was terminated in one of the three platforms at Newton Abbot which may have incurred minor delays until it was moved to Laira by two back to back HST power cars.

I don't know which loco was involved this morning, but the previous night's up sleeper was delayed at Penzance while an oil leak was fixed on 57602 Restormel Castle.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 18, 2015, 10:52:07 am
I don't know which loco was involved this morning, but the previous night's up sleeper was delayed at Penzance while an oil leak was fixed on 57602 Restormel Castle.

Let's hope a few of the recent seven additional Class 68s ordered by DRS can find a home hauling the sleeper service so the worn out 57s can finally be retired:

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/uk-and-italian-operators-order-vossloh-locomotives.html?cHash=be53496d2893eb5bdfad8350348e26ed&Continue=1 (http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/uk-and-italian-operators-order-vossloh-locomotives.html?cHash=be53496d2893eb5bdfad8350348e26ed&Continue=1)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on August 18, 2015, 12:12:34 pm
I don't know which loco was involved this morning, but the previous night's up sleeper was delayed at Penzance while an oil leak was fixed on 57602 Restormel Castle.

This morning's errant loco was 57605 Totnes Castle.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 18, 2015, 01:35:08 pm
Just to correct my earlier post. The oil leak was fixed at Plymouth not Penzance. Got my "P"s muddled up.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 18, 2015, 03:33:18 pm
Just to correct my earlier post. The oil leak was fixed at Plymouth not Penzance. Got my "P"s muddled up.

Mixing up Plymouth and Penzance? Men have been shot for less!!!  ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on August 18, 2015, 06:04:50 pm
I don't know which loco was involved this morning, but the previous night's up sleeper was delayed at Penzance while an oil leak was fixed on 57602 Restormel Castle.

Let's hope a few of the recent seven additional Class 68s ordered by DRS can find a home hauling the sleeper service so the worn out 57s can finally be retired:

I understand that FGW won't accept a DRS loco, which has already ruled 67s out, because DRS would insist on their own drivers.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/uk-and-italian-operators-order-vossloh-locomotives.html?cHash=be53496d2893eb5bdfad8350348e26ed&Continue=1 (http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/uk-and-italian-operators-order-vossloh-locomotives.html?cHash=be53496d2893eb5bdfad8350348e26ed&Continue=1)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 18, 2015, 06:09:52 pm
Not sure why that would be the case?  Chiltern's hired in 68s use their own drivers.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rhydgaled on August 19, 2015, 10:16:33 pm
I understand that FGW won't accept a DRS loco, which has already ruled 67s out, because DRS would insist on their own drivers.
Eh? I didn't think DRS had any 67s, I thought the 67s were all DB locos. And the temporary class 57/3s used on the sleeper are DRS locos, aren't they...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on August 21, 2015, 06:04:36 pm
I understand that FGW won't accept a DRS loco, which has already ruled 67s out, because DRS would insist on their own drivers.
Eh? I didn't think DRS had any 67s, I thought the 67s were all DB locos. And the temporary class 57/3s used on the sleeper are DRS locos, aren't they...

Got my letters mixed up !!!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 05, 2015, 12:32:26 pm
Problems with the westbound sleeper overnight.  First the rear loco - 57303 Pride of Carlisle - failed in platform one having brought the stock in from Old Oak Common and had to be towed back to the depot by an empty HST after the sleeper had departed.

Then the loco at the head of the sleeper came to stand near Lostwithiel but finally managed to limp on to Par where it terminated nearly three hours late.

Caused a few delays and cancellations in Cornwall this morning - including of course the loco and coaches shuttle, which was due to run for the last time this summer today.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: FarWestJohn on September 05, 2015, 06:52:29 pm
I noticed the sleeper waiting at the Truro down home signal at 1018 presumably waiting for the Falmouth 1020 to leave. It was hauled by two power cars and a dead 57. The sleeper is so unreliable and the first train to Penzance at 0706 from Truro that I have had to stop using the train this summer. Unbelievably for a main line in the middle of the holiday season the next train is not until 0942. If the improvements promised for December 2018 come about that cannot be soon enough. I will not believe it until I hear the re signalling project is announced.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 05, 2015, 07:03:28 pm
I'm usually a jinx when it comes to the sleeper - but last Wednesday night I made it from Paddington to Penzance without incident.  The train was hauled by 57303 which failed on the blocks at Paddington last night.  Three days before I travelled I saw the same loco on the nuclear flask train heading north - although it had another 57 with it.  I think that is standard procedure in case of failure given that you don't really need two locos to haul two wagons.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rhydgaled on September 05, 2015, 08:37:21 pm
Three days before I travelled I saw the same loco on the nuclear flask train heading north - although it had another 57 with it.  I think that is standard procedure in case of failure given that you don't really need two locos to haul two wagons.
Two locomotives (not always 57s, often 37s and sometimes other types, such as 66s) does indeed appear to be standard procedure for flask trains, although I think I have read of single locos hauling flasks so double-heading isn't compulsary.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on September 05, 2015, 09:57:02 pm
I'm usually a jinx when it comes to the sleeper - but last Wednesday night I made it from Paddington to Penzance without incident.  The train was hauled by 57303 which failed on the blocks at Paddington last night.  Three days before I travelled I saw the same loco on the nuclear flask train heading north - although it had another 57 with it.  I think that is standard procedure in case of failure given that you don't really need two locos to haul two wagons.

Where was the flask train because 57303 has been solidly working the Sleepers for weeks now and should have been nowhere except between Paddington and Penzance.
I suspect you could have been mistaken.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 47714 on September 05, 2015, 10:44:57 pm
I'm usually a jinx when it comes to the sleeper - but last Wednesday night I made it from Paddington to Penzance without incident.  The train was hauled by 57303 which failed on the blocks at Paddington last night.  Three days before I travelled I saw the same loco on the nuclear flask train heading north - although it had another 57 with it.  I think that is standard procedure in case of failure given that you don't really need two locos to haul two wagons.

Where was the flask train because 57303 has been solidly working the Sleepers for weeks now and should have been nowhere except between Paddington and Penzance.
I suspect you could have been mistaken.

57303 is on long term lone to FGW to cover for there 57's.
As for there being 2 loco's on the flasks NR want 2 on each train due to the nature of the load in case of problems.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 06, 2015, 02:25:38 am
Got my dates muddled. It was the week before, 26th August. Seen going through Bristol Parkway just before 12:30. It was, however, definitely 57303.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on September 06, 2015, 10:45:31 am
Got my dates muddled. It was the week before, 26th August. Seen going through Bristol Parkway just before 12:30. It was, however, definitely 57303.

57303 would have been at either Old Oak Common or Penzance at this time firmly entrenched with FGW in the Sleeper Pool.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 06, 2015, 11:59:33 am
Got my dates muddled. It was the week before, 26th August. Seen going through Bristol Parkway just before 12:30. It was, however, definitely 57303.

57301 & 57310 I believe did that working from photos on Flickr of the working.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 23, 2015, 07:51:22 pm
57303 Failed on the down this morning at St Austell.
Came back to life and passed Redruth viaduct as I was leaving for work at just after 0900.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 30, 2015, 12:22:30 pm
Saw the sleeper leaving Paddington this morning heading back to the depot with Tintagel/Totnes Castle either end, and an interesting multicoloured selection of carriages in between...............as my old Gran would have said, "blue and green should ne'er be seen!"  :D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: PhilWakely on September 30, 2015, 12:36:09 pm
Saw the sleeper leaving Paddington this morning heading back to the depot with Tintagel/Totnes Castle either end, and an interesting multicoloured selection of carriages in between...............as my old Gran would have said, "blue and green should ne'er be seen!"  :D

I was on the Down sleeper last evening, seated in coach A. The coach was in smart green GWR livery externally, but grotty original FGW blue inside.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 30, 2015, 01:01:07 pm
I noticed yesterday a 57 was bought up from Laira to Old Oak early evening and the ECS from Old Oak into Pad was delayed by an hour, I'm assuming they were having trouble with one of the 57s again

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O29915/2015/09/29/advanced


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: PhilWakely on September 30, 2015, 01:58:03 pm
I noticed yesterday a 57 was bought up from Laira to Old Oak early evening and the ECS from Old Oak into Pad was delayed by an hour, I'm assuming they were having trouble with one of the 57s again

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O29915/2015/09/29/advanced

The GWR liveried 57602 Restormel Castle brought last night's ECS into Paddington and (I think!!) 57604 Pendennis Castle took the Down sleeper forward.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 01, 2015, 09:34:30 am
There was a DRS loco ("Pride of Carlisle" I think?) nearby as well as Tintagel Castle just detached this morning when I went past on my way into Paddington, Restormel Castle was attached to a multicoloured set of coaches (only one in the new livery unless my eyes deceived me in the early morning sun!)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on November 13, 2015, 09:41:28 pm
GWR aren't the only ones to have sleeper reliability issues ...

BBC News - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34812382

Quote
RMT union members working on the Caledonian Sleeper rail service are to be balloted on industrial action.

The RMT said the service, which links Inverness and Fort William with London, has been suffering from defects such as broken toilets and fire alarms.

This has led to delays and cancellations, the union said.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 13, 2015, 10:21:53 pm
GWR aren't the only ones to have sleeper reliability issues ...

BBC News - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34812382

Quote
RMT union members working on the Caledonian Sleeper rail service are to be balloted on industrial action.

The RMT said the service, which links Inverness and Fort William with London, has been suffering from defects such as broken toilets and fire alarms.

This has led to delays and cancellations, the union said.
    .......RMT contemplating strike action? Surely not?  ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on November 14, 2015, 07:56:46 am
Wasn't the fleet refurbed when the new franchise came in?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on November 14, 2015, 10:14:51 am
Not that I know of.   The Scottish Government awarded the Sleeper Contract to Serco who are no really noted for being the best !!!  Maintenance was moved from Inverness to Alstom Depot at Polmadie (Glasgow) and went down the pan.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ellendune on November 14, 2015, 10:16:36 am
I doubt if they would have done much of a refurbishment as the fleet is supposed to be replaced as part of the new franchise. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on November 14, 2015, 01:36:46 pm
|Ahh, that's it....so when is that happening?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: alexross42 on December 03, 2015, 10:50:54 am
Problem with the Sleeper service this morning due to it hitting a maintenance trolley on the track that had been 'deliberately' placed across it:
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Plymouth-train-crashes-stolen-trolley-delaying/story-28291324-detail/story.html (http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Plymouth-train-crashes-stolen-trolley-delaying/story-28291324-detail/story.html)

More questionable journalism from Plymouth Herald - apparently 'Between Redruth and Truro' is 'shortly after Plymouth'...

Quote
A PLYMOUTH train has crashed into a trolley which had been stolen and laid deliberately over the railway line.

The maintenance trolley - used by rail staff working on the line - was struck by the London Paddington to Penzance service shortly after it left Plymouth this morning.

Passengers on the train were told that the trolley, which is understood to be used by workers to carry equipment, had been left deliberately "across the line."

The crash - which did not injure anyone - brought rail services in Cornwall to an abrupt halt this morning.

The trolley was left on the line between Redruth and Truro this morning and struck by the sleeper service at about 7.20am.

One passenger said the train came quickly to a halt, but "there was no loud bang or anything like that."

The passengers were told there was no damage to the train and one said a member of staff had told him the collision "chewed up a lot of metal."

He said that the locomotive pulling the sleeper service carriages was fitted with a device similar to a snow plough, which pushed the mangled trolley out of the way.

However, had the trolley been struck by one of the smaller trains it could have done a lot of damage to the unit.

A team of engineers were quickly on site to assess whether there was any damage to the train.

Great Western Railway said there delays of up to 30 minutes on trains between Plymouth and Penzance as a result of the collision but the situation is now believes to be returning to normal.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 26, 2016, 08:54:49 am
Can anyone advise what happened to the down sleeper last night? Stuck at Reading for hours?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 26, 2016, 09:17:12 am
Problem with the class 57 loco.

It couldn't be repaired at Reading so an HST was sent from Old Oak Common to take over the service.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 26, 2016, 11:49:35 am
50 minutes late into Penzance.  Good job that wasn't the previous night, when I suspect loadings would have been much greater!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: The Tall Controller on March 27, 2016, 12:00:19 am
Well at least TG can rest easy knowing that his fellow Plymothians made it into Plymouth at a decent time for a change  ;) Maybe not so fresh faced however...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 27, 2016, 08:21:50 am
Hmmmmmm......still have to wait a couple of hours till Cap'n Jaspers opens for breakfast though! :)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on March 28, 2016, 11:09:20 am
Can anyone advise what happened to the down sleeper last night? Stuck at Reading for hours?

Problem with the DSD (Drivers Safety Device) at Maidenhead.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: patch38 on March 28, 2016, 02:42:44 pm
Hmmmmmm......still have to wait a couple of hours till Cap'n Jaspers opens for breakfast though! :)

Gosh, Cap'n Jaspers! That brings back memories. A bit of idle Google research suggests it's much more up-market these days than when I was acquainted with it in the 1970s, but glad to hear it still goes. Now, what about Ivor Dewdney Pasties...?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 20, 2016, 08:37:56 am
The Up Sleeper was in trouble last night.  Left Penzance 90 late due to a problems with the air conditioning.  Then failed at Bruton and limped into Westbury where it terminated after the loco had an oil leak.  Train left Westbury empty stock for Old Oak Common just after 7.

Let's hope the other set behaves better - as I am on the up sleeper tonight!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 20, 2016, 08:41:29 am
The Up Sleeper was in trouble last night.  Left Penzance 90 late due to a problems with the air conditioning.  Then failed at Bruton and limped into Westbury where it terminated after the loco had an oil leak.  Train left Westbury empty stock for Old Oak Common just after 7.

Let's hope the other set behaves better - as I am on the up sleeper tonight!

Blimey - what provisions were made for the poor souls kicked off at Westbury?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on May 20, 2016, 09:17:00 am
Blimey - what provisions were made for the poor souls kicked off at Westbury?

The sleeper shows 208 late (05:55) at Fairwood junction, go perhaps 06:00 into Westbury.

I would guess they caught the 06:03 or 06:16 Paddington services, which left at 06:12 and 06:23.  Not sure what time the sleeper limped in.   Westbury also has an 07:01 to Paddington that left at 07:05 ... and an 07:51 ...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: BBM on May 20, 2016, 09:37:02 am
Blimey - what provisions were made for the poor souls kicked off at Westbury?

The sleeper shows 208 late (05:55) at Fairwood junction, go perhaps 06:00 into Westbury.

I would guess they caught the 06:03 or 06:16 Paddington services, which left at 06:12 and 06:23.  Not sure what time the sleeper limped in.   Westbury also has an 07:01 to Paddington that left at 07:05 ... and an 07:51 ...


Certainly plenty of available alternative services but I'd imagine it's no fun being woken up at silly o'clock and finding yourself standing around in the early morning Wiltshire air. Presumably the passengers will be compensated (eventually!) via GWR's rather slow customer service.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 20, 2016, 09:41:46 am
Yes, transferred onto the 06:03 (which looks like it was held and departed at 06:11 having arrived on time), and got into Paddington at 07:47.

From the log:
03:30 Westbury Panel advised 1A40 2145 (ThO) Penzance to Paddington is at a stand in the Bruton area, driver having problems with loco 57605.
03:33 Westbury signaller advised driver has declared loco a failure and assistance required from the front. Loco has lost oil and coolant which has been deposited along side of train.
03:40 Noted 6V14 just arrived at Westbury. GBRF contacted and asked to check if their driver would have route knowledge to assist 1A40 from Bruton.
04:17 DB Cargo confirmed 66175 will be the assisting engine from Whatley.
05:20 Agreed with all concerned, once 1A40 on the move train will terminate at Westbury where passengers will detrain to 1K71 0518 Bristol TM to Paddington. The DB Cargo loco will cut off the stock and the Class 57 from London will take ECS to Old Oak Common in suitable margin. Westbury Panel aware and will try to arrange cross platform transfer between 1A40 and 1K71.


Sounds like a pretty good resolution to a tricky problem - would have certainly kept the night shift in control busy!  Always much more difficult to arrange rescue for loco hauled services given there are so few locomotives around these days compared with the 90s and before, and that they all belong to different operators.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: BBM on May 20, 2016, 09:52:51 am
Looks like this is the ECS and it arrived at OOC at 0918:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O95067/2016/05/20/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O95067/2016/05/20/advanced)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 21, 2016, 09:01:22 am
Pleased to say, for once, I wasn't a jinx on the sleeper and this morning's 1A40 arrived spot on time at Paddington at 05:12.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/sleep2105.jpg)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 21, 2016, 10:20:45 am
I've used the sleeper for my commute in Cornwall 10 days of the last month. I've only encountered 57604 and 57303. All journeys have been within 1 minute of schedule.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 25, 2016, 06:11:57 pm
..........a few problems on the sleepers over the last few days I understand?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 25, 2016, 06:18:25 pm
Unusual one last night on the up.  Service was topped and tailed with two locos but the wrong one was at the front apparently.  Multiple shunt moves at Truro to put it right which took 80 minutes and delayed the following Cross Country Service by over an hour.

Sleeper recovered most of its lost time by the time it reached London.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 25, 2016, 06:43:35 pm
Unusual one last night on the up.  Service was topped and tailed with two locos but the wrong one was at the front apparently.  Multiple shunt moves at Truro to put it right which took 80 minutes and delayed the following Cross Country Service by over an hour.

Sleeper recovered most of its lost time by the time it reached London.

Excuse my loco ignorance, but aren't they both the same?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 25, 2016, 07:30:09 pm
Unusual one last night on the up.  Service was topped and tailed with two locos but the wrong one was at the front apparently.  Multiple shunt moves at Truro to put it right which took 80 minutes and delayed the following Cross Country Service by over an hour.

Sleeper recovered most of its lost time by the time it reached London.

Excuse my loco ignorance, but aren't they both the same?

Yes they are the same when they work, except the one that failed the night before was at the front instead of the back where it should of been as a poorly loco.
I am on the down every morning this week from Liskeard to Truro. Tuesday morning down had 57603 on the front and 57303 on the back - 57303 had a reportedly poorly compressor. The down lost 30 mins between Plymouth and Penzance against timetable despite a lot of padding on Tuesday morning. I suspect both 57303 and 57603 were poorly.
57604 this mornings down was 5 early arriving in Truro.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on May 25, 2016, 09:26:21 pm
Unusual one last night on the up.  Service was topped and tailed with two locos but the wrong one was at the front apparently.  Multiple shunt moves at Truro to put it right which took 80 minutes and delayed the following Cross Country Service by over an hour.

Sleeper recovered most of its lost time by the time it reached London.

Excuse my loco ignorance, but aren't they both the same?

If both are in full working order and are of a suitable type, then yes they are the same and it matters not which one is which end.
In practice though a variety of faults and failures can render a loco available to assist in moving the train, but unfit to be at the front.
Examples include defective headlight, damaged windscreen, TPWS not working, radio not working, and in cold weather cab heater not working.
In other cases a sick but not yet dead loco might be attached at the rear in order to provide ETS (electric train supply for heating, cooling, lighting etc) The train can then be hauled by loco at the front, perhaps a freight engine not equipped to supply ETS.

Various other permutations exist. In many cases, both locos may be at the front, but due to a defect on one they have to be in the right order.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TonyK on May 25, 2016, 10:43:27 pm
Fascinating, broadgage. You wouldn't fly a plane with a lot wrong, but a loco can be barely alive, yet A1 fit for service!

Actually, I have flown an aircraft with duff lights - acceptable except for the fin beacon if the flight is in daylight - and with a faulty nav radio - I found my way by looking out of the window. In both cases, it was straight into the hangar after landing. Is there no-one to mend locos?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 25, 2016, 10:46:48 pm
On the Tuesday morning down 57603/303 there was what looked like a (mechanic???). A man with overalls and a high vis GWR jacket kept walking through the train.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 25, 2016, 10:58:47 pm
Officially known as a "fitter"  ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 26, 2016, 05:32:10 am
.......carrying a ball of string, a roll of gaffer tape and Trigger's broom!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on May 26, 2016, 09:02:06 am
.......carrying a ball of string, a roll of gaffer tape and Trigger's broom!

Not forgetting the quick setting epoxy adhesive, the cable ties and some galvanised iron wire !


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 26, 2016, 09:40:22 am
And, more commonly these days, a laptop computer for diagnostic checks.  Though that probably wouldn't be the case for a Class 57!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: patch38 on May 26, 2016, 09:52:47 am
From what I have read on these pages over the years it would seem that the Jeremy Clarkson fix-all - a large hammer - would be most appropriate for 57s.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 26, 2016, 05:03:25 pm
57303 was on the rear of the down this morning, 57605 leading.
57605s first outing since spewing most of its fluids over the line near Westbury
I guess on the balance of probability between the two of them they'd make it!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 27, 2016, 05:23:28 am
Well the down sleeper has fallen over again......didn't leave Paddington until 0311 and is terminating at Plymouth.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 27, 2016, 05:36:43 am
Well the down sleeper has fallen over again......didn't leave Paddington until 0311 and is terminating at Plymouth.

It's now showing as running to Penzance only stopping at Truro after Plymouth. Currently 195 late. Expected into Penzance at 1118!
No good for me getting to work though.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Timmer on May 27, 2016, 05:55:35 am
If it wasn't clear a couple of years back, it is now, time for the 57s to be replaced by new locos. Class 68s perhaps? And yes someone is going to ask 'who is going to pay for them?'


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Billhere on May 27, 2016, 06:13:01 am
Problems again last night at Padd, rolling stock problems this time, the complete train had to go back to OOC to have the defective coach taken out of the train. Seemed to take an absolute age and I think it was 205 mins late departing, and came past Kintbury about 180 late with only six coaches on. It looked like it was the seating coach that was missing, the one at the back of the train.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 27, 2016, 06:43:19 am
If it wasn't clear a couple of years back, it is now, time for the 57s to be replaced by new locos. Class 68s perhaps? And yes someone is going to ask 'who is going to pay for them?'

Funny you should mention class 68s today. Guess what's running to Penzance today on route learning activities. Yep a class 68s first visit to Cornwall.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on May 27, 2016, 10:38:03 am
If it wasn't clear a couple of years back, it is now, time for the 57s to be replaced by new locos. Class 68s perhaps? And yes someone is going to ask 'who is going to pay for them?'

This point crops up from time to time but GWR resist it.   Apart from the cost of driver training.   If DRS locos, they would want their drivers to drive them, a point GWR are resisting.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 27, 2016, 10:43:00 am
If DRS locos, they would want their drivers to drive them, a point GWR are resisting.

I'm not sure that's the case.  Chiltern drivers driver their 68s.  It's probably down to the additional leasing costs/training of staff.  And possibly a little stubbornness.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 27, 2016, 01:16:23 pm
If DRS locos, they would want their drivers to drive them, a point GWR are resisting.

I'm not sure that's the case.  Chiltern drivers driver their 68s.  It's probably down to the additional leasing costs/training of staff.  And possibly a little stubbornness.

.............an attitude which hardly fits in with the much trumpeted "Building a Greater West"...............I wonder how much providing a reliable sleeper service by leasing a couple of locos would cost compared to the multiple paint jobs, advertising campaigns and new uniforms?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on June 16, 2016, 10:45:02 pm
Tonight's down cancelled due to the incident at Paddington, so can assume we will see a daytime ECS to get the stock in the right place for Friday night up,


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on June 17, 2016, 05:17:08 am
Down sleeper was reinstated, nearly 2 hours late from Paddington, just passed Newton abbot barely 30 late. It went via Bristol bath etc, making calls to set down passengers at each.
Realtime trains suggest it will be barely 10 late time it reaches Liskeard.
I Wonder if I might see a HST and not a 57 this morning if it's been used as a Bristol stopper to get people moved, 2 seated sleeper coaches just don't seem sufficient from the crowds I understand were stuck at Paddington

And for maybe another topic, where does GWR journey check pull its info from. It's saying 103 late for the entire journey, we all know the sleeper makes up lots of time, and won't be 103 late for the whole way. Fortunately I know to check other places as have seen this before where it doesn't allow for the prolonged stops at Reading, Exeter and Plymouth.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on June 17, 2016, 05:35:51 am
And for maybe another topic, where does GWR journey check pull its info from. It's saying 103 late for the entire journey, we all know the sleeper makes up lots of time, and won't be 103 late for the whole way.

Not so much a question of "where does it pull its information from" but "what information does it pull?".  It routinely takes a stated delay and carries it on through the journey, only  (it appears) changing the lateness at if a fresh delay is entered along the route.  Brighton to Great Malvern train leaves Brighton 5 late ... usually shows as being 5 late at Great Malvern too!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on June 17, 2016, 06:10:53 am
I've Just got to liskeard only 9 late now! Still the 57 with beds, (according to the CIS boards) but via Bristol calling didcot, Swindon Cheltenham bath and Bristol.
Can't imagine it having been a comfortable night sleep with it pushing along that quick. Aprox 4 hr 45 Paddington to liskeard via Bristol is only around 15 mins slower than the via Bristol HSTs do it in!

Edit- if CIS was to be believed Hst set led by 43028 has gained a number of beds at the rear  ;D

Edit 2- arrived in Truro on time so can't use that as an excuse to be late for work  ::)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 10:00:10 am
And for maybe another topic, where does GWR journey check pull its info from. It's saying 103 late for the entire journey, we all know the sleeper makes up lots of time, and won't be 103 late for the whole way.

Not so much a question of "where does it pull its information from" but "what information does it pull?".  It routinely takes a stated delay and carries it on through the journey, only  (it appears) changing the lateness at if a fresh delay is entered along the route.  Brighton to Great Malvern train leaves Brighton 5 late ... usually shows as being 5 late at Great Malvern too!

On services I watch across TOCs, it does seem to know where 'catch-up' minutes are embedded in the timetable, so reduces the incurred delay by these as the planner shows subsequent stops. On Chiltern, eg, a 10 minute delay on a Kidderminster service can be shown as still arriving on time.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on June 17, 2016, 02:39:43 pm
Both Up and Down Sleepers tonight will be HSTs and calling at various stations in lieu of cancellations and service disruption.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 02:40:49 pm
I hope they get compensation....won't be getting much sleep.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on June 17, 2016, 02:57:02 pm
Both Up and Down Sleepers tonight will be HSTs and calling at various stations in lieu of cancellations and service disruption.
,

Why ? I appreciate that there is still serious disruption after the mishap yesterday, but by the time that sleeper runs, services are less frequent and finding a path for the sleeper should be easy.

For seated passengers who might otherwise be stranded, either attach a couple of extra seating coaches to the sleeper, Even the wretched 57s should be able to handle another few coaches, remembering the relaxed timings. Or perhaps run an additional late evening HST. Much later than usual, but well before the sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 03:08:59 pm
and where do they get extra Mk3 seated coaches from?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on June 17, 2016, 03:16:03 pm
ive been told that last nights up terminated at Reading, there is driver shortages to move an ECS until Sunday, with one set stuck in OLd Oak Common depot.
Tomorrows 57 day coach service par-Plymouth Plymouth- Exeter and Exeter - penZance won't run with a 57 as no 57 set in Cornwall.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on June 17, 2016, 04:47:25 pm
and where do they get extra Mk3 seated coaches from?

Perhaps (some of) the ones used for the daytime loco hauled service ?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on June 17, 2016, 04:52:31 pm
and where do they get extra Mk3 seated coaches from?

Perhaps (some of) the ones used for the daytime loco hauled service ?

Which are the same seated ones used in the night time sleeper. There isn't an extra set!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 04:58:37 pm
What daytime service? I wasn't aware they ran one?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on June 17, 2016, 05:14:40 pm
What daytime service? I wasn't aware they ran one?

They do, but the post above advises that the coaches used are the same ones used at night, I thought that they were additional.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 05:31:18 pm
so what time & where does it go (which is what I was after)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rob on the hill on June 17, 2016, 05:43:37 pm
Plymouth to Exeter I believe.
Here's a clip from Dawlish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15pj971_8is


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on June 17, 2016, 05:52:30 pm
Par to Plymouth, Plymouth to exeter, Exeter to Penzance. Summer Saturday only to free up a 150.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on June 17, 2016, 06:09:27 pm
Par to Plymouth, Plymouth to exeter, Exeter to Penzance. Summer Saturday only to free up a 150.

2P70 PAR 1125 - PLY 1229
2E75 PLY 1335 - EXD 1453

2C51 EXD 1750 - PNZ 21112P70 PAR 1125 - PLY 1229
2E75 PLY 1335 - EXD 1453

2C51 EXD 1750 - PNZ 2111

This is the second year it has run.   All the enthusiasts are itching to know what is working it each Saturday.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 03, 2016, 08:58:52 am
Last nights 'up' failed at Penzanxe. HST ran in its place with the 0650 Penzance to Paddington cancelled this Morning due to one HST short.
Expect a daytime stock move over the weekend in time for Sunday night down as both sets are currently in Penzance,


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on September 03, 2016, 10:19:03 am
Last nights 'up' failed at Penzanxe. HST ran in its place with the 0650 Penzance to Paddington cancelled this Morning due to one HST short.
Expect a daytime stock move over the weekend in time for Sunday night down as both sets are currently in Penzance,

Too simplistic to fix overnight and run the 06:50 with the sleeper set?  Minimal knock-ons if it's a bit slow as the HST for the outbound diagram from Paddington's already in London!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on September 03, 2016, 10:32:59 am
Last nights 'up' failed at Penzanxe. HST ran in its place with the 0650 Penzance to Paddington cancelled this Morning due to one HST short.
Expect a daytime stock move over the weekend in time for Sunday night down as both sets are currently in Penzance,

Too simplistic to fix overnight and run the 06:50 with the sleeper set?  Minimal knock-ons if it's a bit slow as the HST for the outbound diagram from Paddington's already in London!

There would certainly be traincrew problems in addition to the type of accomodation


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 03, 2016, 10:39:41 am
In addition it only has two day (seated) coaches so might be a bit problematic with passenger loadings.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 03, 2016, 10:50:59 am
In addition it only has two day (seated) coaches so might be a bit problematic with passenger loadings.

At that time in the morning, some of the punters might have been quite happy with a bed instead of a seat...  ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on October 26, 2016, 01:13:23 pm
I expect there have been a few "please explain" notes flying around today after the sleeper was delayed in Wiltshire last night.

It was booked to go through Melksham but a freight was coming up the branch with another on the main line waiting for it to clear Thingley Junction.  In the meantime the sleeper was crossed to the Up reversible line at Wootton Bassett which meant when it got to Thingley East there was nowhere for it to go except on towards Bath as it was blocking the path for the freight to leave the single line.

So the sleeper was sent on to Bristol Temple Meads, where because of engineering work on the line through Bridgwater, the loco changed ends and it came back through Bath to reach Westbury via Bathampton Junction and Bradford on Avon.

The end result was it was an hour late in Penzance.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on October 26, 2016, 01:17:14 pm
I expect there have been a few "please explain" notes flying around today after the sleeper was delayed in Wiltshire last night.

I wondered what had happened!

Clearly, someone thought the third platform at Chippenham was already back in action and available as a lay-by  / loop.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: GBM on October 26, 2016, 01:25:22 pm

So the sleeper was sent on to Bristol Temple Meads, where because of engineering work on the line through Bridgwater, the loco changed ends and it came back through Bath to reach Westbury via Bathampton Junction and Bradford on Avon.

The end result was it was an hour late in Penzance.
I take it the train crew had route knowledge as it went via Bristol, etc.  A well versed crew it seems!
Would that have been the Paddington to Exeter crew, or did they change somewhere in between?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on October 26, 2016, 01:29:08 pm
I am not 100% about drivers but the train managers on all the sleeper services are based at Exeter and work half the journey on any one shift.  In other words down from Exeter to Penzance in the morning before working a day service back to Exeter or work a service up to Paddington in the early evening and then go back to Exeter on the sleeper.

The stewards and catering staff are based at Penzance.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on October 26, 2016, 07:33:39 pm

So the sleeper was sent on to Bristol Temple Meads, where because of engineering work on the line through Bridgwater, the loco changed ends and it came back through Bath to reach Westbury via Bathampton Junction and Bradford on Avon.

The end result was it was an hour late in Penzance.
I take it the train crew had route knowledge as it went via Bristol, etc.  A well versed crew it seems!
Would that have been the Paddington to Exeter crew, or did they change somewhere in between?

The regular train crews know all the "101" possible diversionary routes.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 10, 2016, 05:59:52 pm
Been a few issues this week with "getting stuck" in poor rail conditions.
Sunday's up took 95 mins to get up Hemerdon bank, with 3 crew reportedly applying sand.
Last night/This mornings down got stuck on the incline from St Germans to Liskeard.

Monday morning when I got to work at 0345 there was a heavy frost in the Plymouth area coupled with leaf fall I imagine it being a complete nuisance, this morning there was torrential rain when I left Liskeard at 0315.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TonyK on November 21, 2016, 11:15:44 pm

Monday morning when I got to work at 0345 there was a heavy frost in the Plymouth area coupled with leaf fall I imagine it being a complete nuisance, this morning there was torrential rain when I left Liskeard at 0315.

Love your company, hate your hours!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: PhilWakely on November 23, 2016, 07:55:23 am
Like the comment for the Down sleeper on 22/11. No mention of floods severing the line.............
Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:53
This train has been delayed from London Paddington and is now 65 minutes late.
This train will be diverted between Reading and Exeter St Davids.
This train will no longer call at Taunton.
This is due to train crew being delayed by service disruption.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on November 23, 2016, 08:02:25 am
That had been amended by 0500 this morning

Can we anend this thread's title? fgw have been gone a while now :-)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on November 23, 2016, 09:09:31 am
Perhaps change FGW to "Night Riviera".


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 23, 2016, 10:33:05 am
Like the comment for the Down sleeper on 22/11. No mention of floods severing the line.............
Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:53
This train has been delayed from London Paddington and is now 65 minutes late.
This train will be diverted between Reading and Exeter St Davids.
This train will no longer call at Taunton.
This is due to train crew being delayed by service disruption.

So it just took the Sunday route! It goes that way most Sundays. Means drivers have the route knowledge kept up


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on November 23, 2016, 10:36:42 am
That had been amended by 0500 this morning

Can we anend this thread's title? fgw have been gone a while now :-)

Perhaps change FGW to "Night Riviera".

Done!  ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on November 29, 2016, 11:57:59 am
I notice that there was a large delay on the Night Riviera leaving Paddington last night. Didn't arrive until 10am into Penzance anyone have any idea why? Looks like it arrived on time into Paddington and was there when I passed it last night.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 29, 2016, 12:06:19 pm
According to the WNXX forum the train loco failed and the coaches had to be released by the Old Oak Common class 08 shunter to allow the inbound empty stock loco to take the train out.  However, it also had problems in Cornwall due to the usual 'leaves on the line' and frosty rails requiring hand sanding by the driver ::)  In consequence it arrived in Penzance nearly two hours late and in the process disrupted the Cornish rush hour ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on November 29, 2016, 12:42:48 pm
According to the WNXX forum the train loco failed and the coaches had to be released by the Old Oak Common class 08 shunter to allow the inbound empty stock loco to take the train out.  However, it also had problems in Cornwall due to the usual 'leaves on the line' and frosty rails requiring hand sanding by the driver ::)  In consequence it arrived in Penzance nearly two hours late and in the process disrupted the Cornish rush hour ;)
Thanks for the info much appreciated.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 29, 2016, 10:17:30 pm
Tonight's up sleeper still at Penzance with a fault.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: rower40 on December 17, 2016, 07:30:08 am
Last night's (dep Penzance on 16th Dec, for avoidance of doubt) up train left nearly 3 hrs late, skipped all the Cornish stops, and is now forming 1B10 on arrival at Paddington, rather than going empty as 5A40 to Old Oak.  This suggests an HST set has substituted.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on December 17, 2016, 07:39:58 am
It was indeed substituted.

Fitters unable to fix an unspecified fault on the sleeper set.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on December 17, 2016, 07:43:10 am
57603 lack of power. HST subbed.

Will probably result in some ECS over the weekend as both sets will be at Penzance, and with the depot works there isn't room for one set let alone two, with the single set normally using the siding just outside the station!

I can't see a cancelled HST service this morning neither as we are now a HST short at Penzance .

As for 1B10 I'm not sure that's right, the sleeper HST arrived into platform 8, 1B10 is platform 10. 1B15 is the next movement out of 8.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on December 17, 2016, 07:45:56 am
I was lucky then. Had three uneventful sleeper trips behind 57603 this week.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: rower40 on December 17, 2016, 09:07:24 am

As for 1B10 I'm not sure that's right, the sleeper HST arrived into platform 8, 1B10 is platform 10. 1B15 is the next movement out of 8.
I was just deducing this from the TrainDescriptions on the Paddington map of Open Train Times. 1A40 in an arrival berth (can't recall which platform - might have been 8, 9 or 10), and 1B10 in the departure berth of the same platform.  It could easily have changed later, before departure - I didn't stay watching it.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on December 17, 2016, 09:10:21 am
Quite a few changes this morning at Paddington following a fatality at Southall.

Also delayed the stock for the steam excursion to the West Somerset getting from Southall to Victoria.  Left Victoria nearly an hour late but has a couple of pathing stops so should make a lot of that up.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on December 17, 2016, 11:15:11 am
Long Rock to Old Oak Common via Penzance scheduled for 12 noon for the ECS stock and either 57604/5 as both came down last night for such a purpose. 3 x 57s at Penzance this morning.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on December 17, 2016, 12:09:43 pm
57603 lack of power. HST subbed.

Will probably result in some ECS over the weekend as both sets will be at Penzance, and with the depot works there isn't room for one set let alone two, with the single set normally using the siding just outside the station!

I can't see a cancelled HST service this morning neither as we are now a HST short at Penzance .

As for 1B10 I'm not sure that's right, the sleeper HST arrived into platform 8, 1B10 is platform 10. 1B15 is the next movement out of 8.

5A85 STP 08+15 Laira to Penzance forming 1A85 1058 Penzance to Paddington in lieu set off Long Rock.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 17, 2016, 01:06:19 pm
I hope Santa isn't relying on the sleeper......then again it's a Cinderella service at the best of times so the whole thing might end up as a pantomime  (ooooooh I'm good today!)  ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Western Pathfinder on December 17, 2016, 05:42:36 pm
Oh no your not !..


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: lbraine on December 18, 2016, 12:27:39 pm
Empty stock on way to Paddington (sat outside RDG for a while)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O56915/2016/12/18/advanced


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 18, 2016, 12:35:35 pm
Empty stock on way to Paddington (sat outside RDG for a while)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O56915/2016/12/18/advanced

Thought so, just gone past Taplow as I was looking out of the window!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on January 05, 2017, 04:39:59 pm
A post from an engineer on another forum reveals 2016s reliability stats:

Quote
For those who think our 57s are a pain, my annual post of statistics for the up Cornish Night Riviera is now in the Railways of Cornwall specialist section of the RM Web forum.
Of 307 scheduled services, all ran and only 5 were not 57 hauled and just TWO of those were down to train fault. Derailment, fire and flood were the others ! Not bad going if I may say so

Of course he doesn't mention punctuality but still positive results from old locos.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 06, 2017, 05:02:36 am
Problems last night it seems.


Facilities on the 23:59 Plymouth to London Paddington due 05:11.
Will be formed of 8 coaches.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Additional Facilities Information
Sleeper accommodation is not available.
Additional Information
Service will be formed by a High Speed Train set


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 06, 2017, 09:35:04 am
Class 57 failed at Laira last night.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on February 06, 2017, 03:59:17 pm
Loco & Stock ran as 5Z70 09+00 Laira to Old Oak Common this morning


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 19, 2017, 01:53:33 pm
Anyone on the Up sleeper tonight?

21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03


Facilities on the 21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03.
Will be formed of 6 coaches instead of 7.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Additional Facilities Information
Due to a fault with coach H, this coach will be unavailable. Customer's with sleeper berth reservations for Coach H on the Night Riviera Sleeper are advised to contact GWR customer services.
GWR customer services: 0345 7000 125.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on February 19, 2017, 06:32:38 pm
Oh dear - especially at the end of half term week.


Title: Re: No problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Missenden-Mike on February 20, 2017, 08:21:06 am
Just to show that it's not all doom and gloom on the Riviera Sleeper. We travelled down to Penzance on Thu/Fri, we made use of the complimentary drinks and snacks in the 1st class waiting room, then boarded to enjoy the onboard bar, and travelled out of London (on time to the second) in the bar seating area. We then retired to our 'snug' cabin, that we'd been welcomed to by the friendly steward a little earlier.

I couldn't tell you if we arrived at the interim stations on time as I was sound asleep. But our breakfast was delivered on time at 6:45 and we arrived in Penzance on time.  So all in all a great way of travelling to Cornwall in what would normally be 'wasted' time.

We travelled back on the 09:47 which arrived into Paddington a couple of minutes early, but it's not quite as relaxing as the sleeper  ;)


Title: Re: No problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on February 20, 2017, 09:00:53 am
Just to show that it's not all doom and gloom on the Riviera Sleeper. We travelled down to Penzance on Thu/Fri, we made use of the complimentary drinks and snacks in the 1st class waiting room, then boarded to enjoy the onboard bar, and travelled out of London (on time to the second) in the bar seating area. We then retired to our 'snug' cabin, that we'd been welcomed to by the friendly steward a little earlier.

I couldn't tell you if we arrived at the interim stations on time as I was sound asleep. But our breakfast was delivered on time at 6:45 and we arrived in Penzance on time.  So all in all a great way of travelling to Cornwall in what would normally be 'wasted' time.

We travelled back on the 09:47 which arrived into Paddington a couple of minutes early, but it's not quite as relaxing as the sleeper  ;)

Welcome to the forum, Mike!    Glad the sleeper worked well for you.

Where something goes wrong, it makes news.   Where it goes right (especially if it routinely goes right), that's no news and doesn't make the headlines.    Nature of the beast?

Wonderful to see real life and good news comments posted.  Satisfied customer - I expect you'll be using the sleeper again??


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on February 20, 2017, 09:09:06 am
I agree the sleeper is a great way to travel.  I have used it four times since Christmas.

I have not had a problem on any of those trips - apart from on one occasion someone trying to claim my berth, but it turned out they were a day early!

The challenge with the sleeper is it relies on limited resources which need to be at the extreme ends of GWR's operating area six nights a week.  Therefore it doesn't take much cause a problem.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Missenden-Mike on February 20, 2017, 09:13:00 am
Thank you Grahame, as you say it makes news when it goes wrong, hence my attempt to provide a little balance.

We probably won't use it again though, it was an itch that we wanted to scratch and it well and truly ticked the box for us.


Title: Re: No problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Surrey 455 on February 20, 2017, 09:34:49 pm
We travelled back on the 09:47 which arrived into Paddington a couple of minutes early, but it's not quite as relaxing as the sleeper  ;)

I hope the 0947 was on a different day. I'd want at least a day to explore the area before I returned.

I have not had a problem on any of those trips - apart from on one occasion someone trying to claim my berth, but it turned out they were a day early!

Earlier this month at Schipol two young ladies were turned away from my flight at the gate because they were a month early. The ticket barriers into airside let them through apparently.


Title: Re: No problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Missenden-Mike on February 21, 2017, 02:02:21 pm

I hope the 0947 was on a different day. I'd want at least a day to explore the area before I returned.

Ha! Yes, we came back on Sunday morn  :)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 05, 2017, 08:31:40 pm
Rough weather? 


21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:08


21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:08 will be starting late from Penzance.
This is due to train crew being delayed.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on June 05, 2017, 10:35:09 pm
The 15:06 from London Paddington which the TM for the sleeper, at least, catches from Exeter to work the train was terminated at Plymouth after being delayed at Newton Abbot for over half an hour and then skipping Totnes due to mechanical problems.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on June 05, 2017, 10:51:34 pm
Eventually left 58 minutes late.  Inconvenient for those waiting at stations in Cornwall, but should make up the time by London.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on June 14, 2017, 06:14:44 pm
Travelled back from Truro to Exeter on the sleeper last night after a sunny day in Falmouth. Had a seat booked in coach A, which was the original 2 + 1 layout, and although the interior was somewhat jaded, it was a most comfortable 2.5 hours in a wide, reclining seat with some wine and nibbles.

However, I  also checked out the second seating coach, which had been refurbished and can best be described as "high density". Whilst very smart in the green livery, it felt claustrophobic and a retrograde step backwards in terms of comfort and privacy, with barely any tables and rows of airline seats squashed together.

The investment in the sleeper is hugely welcome, but not this new seat layout.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 19, 2017, 06:02:45 pm
(Not a problem but wasn't worth starting a new thread..)

Any reason why the sleeper will be spending some days at Reading depot from October?

5A40 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C21211/2017/11/01/advanced)
5C99 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C29697/2017/11/01/advanced)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on August 19, 2017, 06:21:14 pm
(Not a problem but wasn't worth starting a new thread..)

Any reason why the sleeper will be spending some days at Reading depot from October?

5A40 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C21211/2017/11/01/advanced)
5C99 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C29697/2017/11/01/advanced)

Getting used to its new home when OOC closes

New refurbed carriages have systems not supported at OOC and at present can only be emptied at Longrock


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: rower40 on August 22, 2017, 10:35:57 am
(Not a problem but wasn't worth starting a new thread..)

Any reason why the sleeper will be spending some days at Reading depot from October?

5A40 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C21211/2017/11/01/advanced)
5C99 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C29697/2017/11/01/advanced)

Getting used to its new home when OOC closes

New refurbed carriages have systems not supported at OOC and at present can only be emptied at Longrock
It's also to allow those Cornwall-to-Reading passengers who missed their 0421 wake-up call, and find themselves at Paddington, to remain on board for a civilized 0845 alighting. ;D
This post may contain traces of untruth


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on August 22, 2017, 07:19:30 pm


New refurbed carriages have systems not supported at OOC and at present can only be emptied at Longrock

Like the toilets which are stinking by the time it returns to Penzance. 36 hours of toilet smells lovely....


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: BBM on September 06, 2017, 06:08:37 pm
Last night I had my first-ever journey on the Night Riviera, travelling from PAD to PNZ behind 57602. There was no problem with timekeeping, it arrived 2 minutes early at PNZ, indeed according to RTT it was 30 minutes early at Taunton. (RTT reports that the previous night's service was 20 minutes early at Taunton but had become 60 late by Exeter).

I enjoyed the new experience and I managed to get a good amount of sleep even though the leading bogie of the coach had a somewhat annoying wheelflat. It was worse at lower speeds and the first part of the journey to RDG involved a fairly slow trundle along the DR so I thought it might keep me awake all night. However once the train got up speed the thumping from the wheel became less noticeable and I got some shut-eye.

I was in an unrefurbished coach so the cabin was looking a little tired but it was clean and comfortable and my only gripe was that the wash basin was a little smelly when the top was open. The breakfast was tasty but small, however I discovered a 'fry-up' place close to PNZ station so I filled up there. ;)

Overall a good and very different type of rail journey, hopefully I'll do it again some time!



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 08, 2017, 01:36:03 am
The breakfast was tasty but small, however I discovered a 'fry-up' place close to PNZ station so I filled up there. ;)

Member 'broadgage' will no doubt be pleased with your news, BBM.  ;) :D ;D



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: old original on September 08, 2017, 05:53:38 am
Not so good this morning...

07/09/17 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:11 will be terminated at Taunton.
It will no longer call at Reading and London Paddington.
It has been previously delayed, is being further delayed at Tiverton Parkway and is now expected to be 300 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on September 08, 2017, 06:46:19 am
Not so good this morning...

07/09/17 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:11 will be terminated at Taunton.
It will no longer call at Reading and London Paddington.
It has been previously delayed, is being further delayed at Tiverton Parkway and is now expected to be 300 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Looks like it limped along, eventually sat down, and blocked the morning trains coming up to London behind it.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 08, 2017, 06:55:40 am
Currently (06:50) sat alongside platform 4 at Taunton with a Cross Country and GWR services from Plymouth vying for platform 5 behind it.

Some GWR staff might have been late for work, there is a long standing arrangement for the sleeper to call at Swindon at 03:15 to pick them up.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 08, 2017, 09:05:31 am
Currently (06:50) sat alongside platform 4 at Taunton with a Cross Country and GWR services from Plymouth vying for platform 5 behind it.

Some GWR staff might have been late for work, there is a long standing arrangement for the sleeper to call at Swindon at 03:15 to pick them up.

Presumably it wouldn't have been beyond the ability of GWR to arrange alternative transport for their staff?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on September 08, 2017, 10:22:41 am
Not so good this morning...

07/09/17 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:11 will be terminated at Taunton.
It will no longer call at Reading and London Paddington.
It has been previously delayed, is being further delayed at Tiverton Parkway and is now expected to be 300 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Looks like it limped along, eventually sat down, and blocked the morning trains coming up to London behind it.

Was assisted from point of failure between Tiverton Jn and Taunton by 59001 which was removed from it's train at Taunton and ran wrong road to assist.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 08, 2017, 10:24:56 am
The rescuing loco also had fuel problems of its own which further delayed things. 

Empty stock just approaching Reading (10:20am) having come up the Berks & Hants.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: hoover50 on September 08, 2017, 10:34:25 am
Looks like it limped along, eventually sat down, and blocked the morning trains coming up to London behind it.

According to RTT it left Penzance on time but subsequently got into trouble. It was 55 late at Par, 81 late at Plymouth and 163 late at Exeter St Davids.

Why didn't they just CAPE it at Exeter St Davids rather than let it carry on and fail (and block the line) before it reached Taunton?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: hoover50 on September 08, 2017, 10:38:54 am
Some GWR staff might have been late for work, there is a long standing arrangement for the sleeper to call at Swindon at 03:15 to pick them up.

Funnily enough, RTT shows that the following trains were cancelled from Paddington due to an issue with the train crew:
0547 to Worcester Foregate Street
0615 to Hayes & Harlington
0652 to Great Malvern


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on September 08, 2017, 10:40:55 am
Looks like it limped along, eventually sat down, and blocked the morning trains coming up to London behind it.

According to RTT it left Penzance on time but subsequently got into trouble. It was 55 late at Par, 81 late at Plymouth and 163 late at Exeter St Davids.

Why didn't they just CAPE it at Exeter St Davids rather than let it carry on and fail (and block the line) before it reached Taunton?

57604 was sent down on the rear of 1C99 to detach at Exeter to assist from there but doesn't appear to have been very successful.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on October 19, 2017, 07:18:07 pm
The PAD - PNZ sleeper (on the 18th) had a bit of a bad evening/morning with a 75min delay when it reached PNZ this morning.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 20, 2017, 07:11:46 pm
Last nights "up" failed at Hemerdon and was pulled back to Plymouth by the two Laira 08s.

57603 came down light engine to collect the rake and 57604 today, however that's now failed on its way back up to Paddington inside Marley Tunnel. Assuming tonight's "down" will be affected looking at the time now.

Currently disrupting services on the up line in that area (Totnes)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on November 20, 2017, 07:14:28 pm
Saw one of the 57's running light through Reading at around 1130 today and wondered if something was up!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rob on the hill on November 20, 2017, 08:23:13 pm
Light engine to Laira by the look of it: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O45223/2017/11/20/advanced

There seems to have been a problem with the up sleeper last night arriving at Plymouth 22 late and leaving 204 late:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P00049/2017/11/19/advanced


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on November 20, 2017, 08:24:13 pm
Last nights "up" failed at Hemerdon and was pulled back to Plymouth by the two Laira 08s.

57603 came down light engine to collect the rake and 57604 today, however that's now failed on its way back up to Paddington inside Marley Tunnel. Assuming tonight's "down" will be affected looking at the time now.

Currently disrupting services on the up line in that area (Totnes)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 20, 2017, 08:30:58 pm
The ECS is now underway almost 3 hours late. Brakes stuck on in the tunnel according to well positioned posters on a Facebook group.
It held in the Totnes platform avoiding line to allow 1A94 to overtake, and is now following 1A94. expected to Paddington at 2334 now and OOC 2352. Definitely delaying the down tonight.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rob on the hill on November 20, 2017, 08:35:41 pm
1M83 has also overtaken it, and looks as though 1A35 is about to.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bradshaw on November 21, 2017, 08:39:09 am
journey check has down sleeper as HST with no sleeping berths available


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 21, 2017, 09:33:45 am
journey check has down sleeper as HST with no sleeping berths available

Did the ECS bother going all the way to OOC? It’ll be needed at penzance tonight now!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on November 21, 2017, 12:26:16 pm
journey check has down sleeper as HST with no sleeping berths available

Did the ECS bother going all the way to OOC? It’ll be needed at penzance tonight now!

5C99 currently en route O O Common to Penzance for tonight


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 21, 2017, 06:00:41 pm
journey check has down sleeper as HST with no sleeping berths available

Did the ECS bother going all the way to OOC? It’ll be needed at penzance tonight now!

5C99 currently en route O O Common to Penzance for tonight

57602


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: sleepy on November 25, 2017, 07:10:10 pm
Anyone heard from GWR what they will be compensated for lack of berths on this service, or recent similar subsitution with HST ?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Henry on November 25, 2017, 07:23:52 pm

 There seems little point in refurbishing the sleeping berths if the 57's still prove
 unreliable.
 
 Putting the 'cart before the horse'.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on November 26, 2017, 12:21:21 am
Anyone heard from GWR what they will be compensated for lack of berths on this service, or recent similar subsitution with HST ?
Previously I've had a full refund for a lack of berth on the Sleeper. This was almost 15 years ago I think so not sure if things are the same now.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 26, 2017, 07:23:25 am

 There seems little point in refurbishing the sleeping berths if the 57's still prove
 unreliable.
 
 Putting the 'cart before the horse'.

A horse and cart would be more reliable.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on December 15, 2017, 11:04:57 pm
Tonight “up” is a HST. The 57 took a dead HST to Laira today.

Currently no shore supply at Penzance I wonder if an issue through no power to the coaches this afternoon/evening?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on January 02, 2018, 07:16:46 am
From Journeycheck at 07:00 this am 02/01/2018


23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 will be starting late from London Paddington and is expected to be 30 minutes late.

This is due to a person being hit by a train.

Last Updated:02/01/2018 00:14


Was this the 01/01/2018 service or is this someone reading todays crystal ball  ???


Also Journeycheck reports a number of short formed services, 4 carriages instead of 8 due to more than usual trains needing repairs at the same time - really !!!!  all these lovely brand new trains needing repairs so soooooooon,


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on January 02, 2018, 07:40:13 am
Also Journeycheck reports a number of short formed services, 4 carriages instead of 8 due to more than usual trains needing repairs at the same time - really !!!!  all these lovely brand new trains needing repairs so soooooooon,

More likely teething troubles ... having been stored in sidings awaiting entry to service, the engines won't start because the batteries have gone flat  ;D  ;D   (Yes, I know they're electric)

In seriousness - it would be nothing short of a miracle if it was 100% from the first day of full service.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on January 02, 2018, 11:13:57 am
From Journeycheck at 07:00 this am 02/01/2018


23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 will be starting late from London Paddington and is expected to be 30 minutes late.

This is due to a person being hit by a train.

Last Updated:02/01/2018 00:14


Was this the 01/01/2018 service or is this someone reading todays crystal ball  ???


Also Journeycheck reports a number of short formed services, 4 carriages instead of 8 due to more than usual trains needing repairs at the same time - really !!!!  all these lovely brand new trains needing repairs so soooooooon,

According to RTT last nights service arrived 1 minute late at Penzance having left 29 mins late from Paddington. It had made half of that up by the time it reached Reading and left Taunton on time.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on January 02, 2018, 11:17:03 am
Quite a rough ride for those sleeping then....


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TonyK on January 02, 2018, 11:25:06 am
Quite a rough ride for those sleeping then....

Worse for those still awake...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on January 02, 2018, 11:26:28 am
Why?....I would have thought those asleep were woken by the increased speed and rocking...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 02, 2018, 11:30:13 am
I think FT,N was being amusingly pedantic, Chris,

Anyway there would have been no increased speed or rocking, the sleeper is timed with a huge amount of padding, can the same be said for the beds?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on January 02, 2018, 11:35:05 am
If you get a refurbished cabin - yes.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TonyK on January 02, 2018, 11:36:22 am
I think FT,N was being amusingly pedantic, Chris,

You read me like a book, II!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on January 02, 2018, 12:14:01 pm
From Journeycheck at 07:00 this am 02/01/2018


23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 will be starting late from London Paddington and is expected to be 30 minutes late.

This is due to a person being hit by a train.

Last Updated:02/01/2018 00:14


Was this the 01/01/2018 service or is this someone reading todays crystal ball  ???


Also Journeycheck reports a number of short formed services, 4 carriages instead of 8 due to more than usual trains needing repairs at the same time - really !!!!  all these lovely brand new trains needing repairs so soooooooon,

According to RTT last nights service arrived 1 minute late at Penzance having left 29 mins late from Paddington. It had made half of that up by the time it reached Reading and left Taunton on time.

This often happens in Journey Check in case of trains running from one day into the next


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 01, 2018, 05:57:25 pm
Both sleepers cancelled tonight I see.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on March 01, 2018, 06:02:39 pm
Both sleepers cancelled tonight I see.

Little choice - Network Rail closing the line at Dawlish during the evening until midday tomorrow:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19411.msg232545#msg232545

Ironically, using snowploughs etc to keep the rest of the main line open as far as possible.

Shows the delicacy of Dawlish again!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on March 01, 2018, 06:10:08 pm
Yeah that's understandable and the Scottish ones are also non running for the second night. A mate has pointed out that the BBC don't mention the Caledonian Sleepers anymore on the digital text on the TV and don't therefore say they're cancelled.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on March 02, 2018, 03:18:40 pm
Cally sleepers also gone tonight for the 3rd night i a row. None scheduled tomorrow either. And still no trains twixt Edinburgh & Newcastle 0- the photos & video on twitter of the snowdrifts are !!!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: PhilWakely on March 08, 2018, 06:38:07 am
Up sleeper last night (7th/8th) still sat at Newton Abbot (06:40) having completely failed.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 08, 2018, 06:45:44 am
Developed problems after Plymouth.   Finally declared a failure about 04:40.  Not sure what happened to the passengers.  Could well have been sent up on the first train of the day from Plymouth.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 08, 2018, 09:19:21 am
Left Newton Abbot at 08:40 heading for Reading Traincare Depot


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 08, 2018, 09:29:03 am
Left Newton Abbot at 08:40 heading for Reading Traincare Depot


.................the train or the passengers?  ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 08, 2018, 09:31:00 am
The train.  Suspect the passengers were put on the 04:51 ex Plymouth when it got to Newton Abbot.  That train was slightly delayed between Reading and London Paddington due to a problem with the brakes.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on March 08, 2018, 09:44:38 am
Does one get the fare refunded for events like this?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 08, 2018, 09:47:45 am
Would certainly expect the berth to be refunded (if bought separately) and as arrival into Reading and London was over three hours late; the fare too.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: devonexpress on March 17, 2018, 01:13:50 am
Considering the amount of failures, although it did improve for a short time, is it not time that GWR either axed the sleeper and added more later and earlier services, or what I expect in the new franchise, replacements by Class 68s and MK5s. Its completely unfair on passengers who may used this services for business, that they cannot guarantee the train will even get to Taunton let alone Paddington.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 17, 2018, 12:01:40 pm
Apart from the Taunton failure on the 7th and understandable cancellations after the snow a couple of weekends back, I’m struggling to find many other instances where the sleeper has proved unreliable over the last few months?

Obviously the 57s will not go on for too much longer, and 68s would be the obvious choice to replace then, though I can see the carriages staying long into any new franchise given their recent refurbishment.  It would be a politically difficult decision to axe it.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: devonexpress on March 17, 2018, 09:18:01 pm
Apart from the Taunton failure on the 7th and understandable cancellations after the snow a couple of weekends back, I’m struggling to find many other instances where the sleeper has proved unreliable over the last few months?

Obviously the 57s will not go on for too much longer, and 68s would be the obvious choice to replace then, though I can see the carriages staying long into any new franchise given their recent refurbishment.  It would be a politically difficult decision to axe it.



Depends really, the refurbishment was part of the franchise extension agreement, and considering the previous one was a touch of paint, i can only see it being a temporary measure. As regards to political issues, it all depends, with services getting faster and more frequent, and with GWR having the ability to put on later services once the 802s come into service, it may well be that there is no longer a requirement for a sleeper service.  Don't forget the sleeper has an hour or two wait at Exeter, and only goes up to 100mph. The latest train from Exeter current is 19:40 i believe, making Plymouth 18:40 ish, whilst the latest service from Newcastle leaves at 22:30pm. Give that GWR will have the ability to run smaller 5 car units on later services, I suspect many MPs and locals would rather have later and earlier trains, than a sleeper service.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 18, 2018, 10:20:42 pm
Hmm.  If I recall correctly, it was pressure from several West Country MPs, amongst others, that kept the Night Riviera sleeper service going.  ::)



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: devonexpress on March 18, 2018, 10:36:19 pm
Hmm.  If I recall correctly, it was pressure from several West Country MPs, amongst others, that kept the Night Riviera sleeper service going.  ::)



Yes 10 years ago, when we had a shortage of rolling stock and it wasn't economical to run later trains, Exeter & Plymouth have vastly grown in 10 years, also with IET's being able to run as 5 car units, there is less financial risk on GWR.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on March 19, 2018, 09:40:25 am
It’s full most nights, so there is clearly a business case to keep it going.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 19, 2018, 10:09:46 am
Hmm.  If I recall correctly, it was pressure from several West Country MPs, amongst others, that kept the Night Riviera sleeper service going.  ::)



Yes 10 years ago, when we had a shortage of rolling stock and it wasn't economical to run later trains, Exeter & Plymouth have vastly grown in 10 years, also with IET's being able to run as 5 car units, there is less financial risk on GWR.

Exeter has experienced considerable economic growth, Plymouth (my home town) is sadly fading away although it's by far the biggest city in the Southwest and the most strategically significant with vast potential.

I can see the argument for the up sleeper, as it gives a perfect arrival time in London for a day's business, but the down sleeper is only really attractive for those heading for the depths of Cornwall.

If you want to make the down sleeper a "sell" for Plymouth, then it has to have more practical timings, if it did, it could be an asset, particularly since (ludicrously) the airport closed.

Being turfed off at 0515 is useless for tourists or business - I believe that "in the old days" a sleeper carriage was detached at Plymouth and those on board could slumber on until a more practical hour - this would make it far more attractive. Either that, or move the departure time back at Paddington a couple of hours, I'm sure it's not necessary for the sleeper to sit in Exeter and elsewhere for hours on end.

I noted (before Graham censored it  ;)) Hopwood's comments about increased partnership between GWR and the regions. Let's see if words translate into actions.

Otherwise (or preferably additionally) introduce a faster, early morning service Paddington - Taunton - Exeter - Plymouth.




Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on March 19, 2018, 10:14:27 am

I noted (before Graham censored it  ;)) Hopwood's comments about increased partnership between GWR and the regions. Let's see if words translate into actions.


Not censored - embargo had shifted from 00:01 to 10:00 - site now live at http://www.britainrunsonrail.co.uk/my-area/west.html and post returning to public view.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: stuving on March 19, 2018, 10:19:53 am
Not censored - embargo had shifted from 00:01 to 10:00 - site now live at http://www.britainrunsonrail.co.uk/my-area/west.html and post returning to public view.

Are your sure the embargo wasn't delayed to a more suitable time for this kind of PR, like perhaps in six months (subject to review)?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on March 19, 2018, 10:40:30 am
Not censored - embargo had shifted from 00:01 to 10:00 - site now live at http://www.britainrunsonrail.co.uk/my-area/west.html and post returning to public view.

Are your sure the embargo wasn't delayed to a more suitable time for this kind of PR, like perhaps in six months (subject to review)?

Web site went live at 10 a.m. ... so it's out there.  Doesn't really feel like a good day for it though!

Mind from my feed just now

Quote
Total confusion at trowbridge. Screen is showing the 954 Swindon service is running but according to staff control doesn't know themselves. Now their signalling issues at Westbury

Okay now no trains from Westbury to bath until midday massive points failure all trains halted. Now telling people to catch the service bus to bath using the train ticket

So perhaps it's the very RIGHT time to say "we're gong to put this right"


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 19, 2018, 01:25:33 pm
I would be surprised if the sleeper was to be axed anytime soon, even with upcoming improvements to journey time and frequency of daytime trains - but I’ve been surprised before regarding decisions on the railway.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: rower40 on March 19, 2018, 01:57:39 pm
Would certainly expect the berth to be refunded (if bought separately) and as arrival into Reading and London was over three hours late; the fare too.
The Sleeper is a hotel on wheels.  If it does run, but arrives extremely late, (if only to ensure the stock is ready for the next day), then GWR will refund the fare, but will charge extra for the berth for "late checkout"!  ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on March 19, 2018, 11:34:38 pm
Hmm.  If I recall correctly, it was pressure from several West Country MPs, amongst others, that kept the Night Riviera sleeper service going.  ::)



Yes 10 years ago, when we had a shortage of rolling stock and it wasn't economical to run later trains, Exeter & Plymouth have vastly grown in 10 years, also with IET's being able to run as 5 car units, there is less financial risk on GWR.

Exeter has experienced considerable economic growth, Plymouth (my home town) is sadly fading away although it's by far the biggest city in the Southwest and the most strategically significant with vast potential.

I can see the argument for the up sleeper, as it gives a perfect arrival time in London for a day's business, but the down sleeper is only really attractive for those heading for the depths of Cornwall.

If you want to make the down sleeper a "sell" for Plymouth, then it has to have more practical timings, if it did, it could be an asset, particularly since (ludicrously) the airport closed.

Being turfed off at 0515 is useless for tourists or business - I believe that "in the old days" a sleeper carriage was detached at Plymouth and those on board could slumber on until a more practical hour - this would make it far more attractive. Either that, or move the departure time back at Paddington a couple of hours, I'm sure it's not necessary for the sleeper to sit in Exeter and elsewhere for hours on end.

I noted (before Graham censored it  ;)) Hopwood's comments about increased partnership between GWR and the regions. Let's see if words translate into actions.

Otherwise (or preferably additionally) introduce a faster, early morning service Paddington - Taunton - Exeter - Plymouth.



From memory the axing of the Plymouth carriage was down to the extra expense of running it. I think they had to have a shunter & driver there to move the carriage which wasn't cheap apparently. I used it at least once and it was convenient but I think the shunting woke me up.

Anyone know why the service is only running to/from Plymouth tonight?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on March 20, 2018, 12:21:18 am
Only to Plymouth all week as line is closed west of Truro


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on March 20, 2018, 01:26:50 am
Only to Plymouth all week as line is closed west of Truro
Thanks, at the back of my mind I think I knew that


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 20, 2018, 08:54:35 am
From memory the axing of the Plymouth carriage was down to the extra expense of running it. I think they had to have a shunter & driver there to move the carriage which wasn't cheap apparently. I used it at least once and it was convenient but I think the shunting woke me up.

Yes, that’s right.  It in effect saved what was a marginal service good for the region, as the extra cost of the Plymouth portion was dragging it down financially.  It would be nice if it could have a Plymouth portion (as it would be nice if it had an Exeter portion) but few would say the outlay makes financial sense.  A later departure time from Paddington might be a better idea to allow a later arrival time at Plymouth, though if it’s too late then the attraction of joining it at Reading is reduced significantly.  As is often the case, there has to be a sensible trade off.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on March 20, 2018, 09:03:19 am
I cant see the sleeper being withdrawn any time soon. It is much favoured by drunken Sorry hard working and stressed MPs.

A later evening or earlier morning service is a very poor substitute for a night in bed if suffering from a "stress headache"


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 20, 2018, 10:46:25 am
From memory the axing of the Plymouth carriage was down to the extra expense of running it. I think they had to have a shunter & driver there to move the carriage which wasn't cheap apparently. I used it at least once and it was convenient but I think the shunting woke me up.

Yes, that’s right.  It in effect saved what was a marginal service good for the region, as the extra cost of the Plymouth portion was dragging it down financially.  It would be nice if it could have a Plymouth portion (as it would be nice if it had an Exeter portion) but few would say the outlay makes financial sense.  A later departure time from Paddington might be a better idea to allow a later arrival time at Plymouth, though if it’s too late then the attraction of joining it at Reading is reduced significantly.  As is often the case, there has to be a sensible trade off.

Not sure it is still exists but there used to be a ticket easement which allowed Exeter passengers to double back via Plymouth so they didn't have quite such an early start.   Perhaps there should be an easement for those travelling to Plymouth to allow them to go to say Bodmin Parkway or Truro and catch one back and be in Plymouth in time for a morning meeting.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on March 20, 2018, 09:06:03 pm
The sleeper neither lacking in passengers or recent investment, and is hugely important to residents of Cornwall.

However, Exeter, Totnes, Newton Abbot and Plymouth deserve a 23.00 fast train from Paddington, and I personally believe this would not impact the sleeper adversely


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: PhilWakely on March 20, 2018, 09:34:27 pm
Note sure it is still exists but there used to be an ticket easement which allowed Exeter passengers to double back via Plymouth so they didn't have quite such an early start.   Perhaps there should be an easement for those travelling to Plymouth to allow them to go to say Bodmin Parkway or Truro and catch one back and be in Plymouth in time for a morning meeting.
I asked that very question a couple of years back when using the sleeper back to Exeter. Their answer was...
Quote
travel on to Plymouth would be overcarrying and an excess would need to be paid to cover this portion of the journey.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on March 20, 2018, 10:51:45 pm
Quote
However, Exeter, Totnes, Newton Abbot and Plymouth deserve a 23.00 fast train from Paddington

Seems a fair point, Swansea have one that departs PAD at 2245 and Cardiff a 2330.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 21, 2018, 08:11:53 am
Note sure it is still exists but there used to be an ticket easement which allowed Exeter passengers to double back via Plymouth so they didn't have quite such an early start.   Perhaps there should be an easement for those travelling to Plymouth to allow them to go to say Bodmin Parkway or Truro and catch one back and be in Plymouth in time for a morning meeting.
I asked that very question a couple of years back when using the sleeper back to Exeter. Their answer was...
Quote
travel on to Plymouth would be overcarrying and an excess would need to be paid to cover this portion of the journey.


Which just goes to show the lack of joined up thinking - what use is a "sleeper" that turfs you out at Exeter at 3am, or Plymouth just after 5am?

It may be an asset to the good people of Cornwall, but from a business perspective, which must be one of its drivers, Westbound to Devon it's pretty useless.

A 2230-ish fast service as suggested would be far more practical, at least you'd be able to get a bit more kip in a hotel when you arrive ready for the next day, or an 0530 fast service Taunton - Exeter - Plymouth..........make it a Pullman and serve breakfast!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 21, 2018, 10:35:10 am
The trend is for later departures so I can see a later evening service being a distinct possibility - to complement the sleeper service, not replace it.b


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 21, 2018, 04:35:05 pm
The trend is for later departures so I can see a later evening service being a distinct possibility - to complement the sleeper service, not replace it.b

Let's hope so - but if there's a later evening service that gets to Exeter at (for example) around 0030 and Plymouth an hour  later, it stands to reason that you can expect far fewer customers for those major destinations to use the sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: devonexpress on March 22, 2018, 06:58:54 pm
The trend is for later departures so I can see a later evening service being a distinct possibility - to complement the sleeper service, not replace it.b

Let's hope so - but if there's a later evening service that gets to Exeter at (for example) around 0030 and Plymouth an hour  later, it stands to reason that you can expect far fewer customers for those major destinations to use the sleeper.

The question is during the winter months how many people in Exeter & Plymouth use the sleeper to make it viable, and would a late evening Paddington to Plymouth and late Plymouth to Padd service take some of those passengers away, making it unprofitable? As apart from the holiday season, there is hardly a massive demand for a 7 or 8 coach sleeper train to Penzance if two of your key stops can get served by a train that arrives before or just after midnight.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Witham Bobby on May 25, 2018, 09:24:22 am
 
Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55
24/05/18 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 has been delayed at Newton Abbot and is now 140 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Last Updated:25/05/2018 07:03


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 25, 2018, 09:34:04 am
Just arriving into Penzance now (09:34).


EDIT to add: Well the passengers did.  The sleeper stock itself is still blocking platform 3 at Newton Abbot.  Rescue loco is just approaching Totnes (09:55)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rob on the hill on May 25, 2018, 12:24:43 pm
Sleeper rescued by 2 back-to-back HST power cars as 5C99.

Picture on Devon Railway Photography Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/Devonrailphotography/photos/a.197218983973976.1073741828.196879454007929/599640140398523/?type=3&theatre

Quote
With the down Riviera Sleeper failing at Newton Abbot and 57605 low on power, 43160 and soon to be off lease debranded 43141 were sent to rescue. Seen here powering past the South Devon Railway towards Totnes Station. 25th May 2018.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on May 25, 2018, 12:38:44 pm
I know it's not what happened ... by just for a moment I thought ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/bwwarships.jpg)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: rogerw on May 25, 2018, 07:31:12 pm
I can remember travelling on the up sleeper in 1968 with two warships on the front


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Western Pathfinder on May 25, 2018, 08:00:25 pm
We did it with a single Western back in the dim dark past twtd.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 25, 2018, 08:33:05 pm
Give me Restormel Castle any day. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 25, 2018, 09:58:42 pm
Give me Restormel Castle any day. 

The one that was forever breaking down? 😉


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 26, 2018, 06:20:27 pm
Had more luck with that loco than Pride of Cumbria - which has been a jinx for me.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Witham Bobby on May 29, 2018, 12:25:08 pm
We did it with a single Western back in the dim dark past twtd.

During my time signalling at Witham, the only problem that I can recall with The Sleepers (which used to travel our way, back then, in both directions) was when an unfortunate person jumped off a bridge in front of the D1000 hauled Up service one night, near Clink Road Jcn.  The front brake pipe was knocked off the loco and a full emergency brake application ensued.  The train was rescued by a loco from Westbury fairly swiftly and went on its way.

Of course, the biggest problem with The Sleepers was the Taunton fire.  That occurred after I'd left the big railway in favour of the then very little, but re-opening, West Somerset Railway.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on July 28, 2018, 09:00:56 am
Last night's down sleeper likely to be two hours late into Penzance this morning.

Delayed at Newton Abbot for nearly two and a half hours waiting for over-running engineering work to finish.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: metallikat75 on August 02, 2018, 01:22:59 pm
I got the sleeper for the first time on Thurs 26th July, from Paddington to Camborne. It being one of the hottest days of the year, it wasn't a total surprise to get woken at 3am to be told the aircon had failed and they had to choose between kicking us all off or propping our doors open with paper cups to improve the air circulation. I felt rather sorry for the staff doing the waking and the door propping, as I imagine the hot weather meant opening cabins to find their occupants not wearing a great deal.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 06, 2018, 09:50:17 pm
From gwr.com

Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance Sleeper Train

Due to a fault affecting the locomotive pulling the sleeper service from London Paddington to Penzance, and the necessity to replace it with another locomotive from Reading Train Care Depot, the 23:45 from London Paddington to Penzance will start at Reading at 00:46. Sleeper train customers will be able to make use of the First Class Lounge at Paddington, and should catch the 23:30 Cardiff train and alight at Reading to connect into their sleeper train.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on August 06, 2018, 10:08:25 pm
From gwr.com

Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance Sleeper Train

Due to a fault affecting the locomotive pulling the sleeper service from London Paddington to Penzance, and the necessity to replace it with another locomotive from Reading Train Care Depot, the 23:45 from London Paddington to Penzance will start at Reading at 00:46. Sleeper train customers will be able to make use of the First Class Lounge at Paddington, and should catch the 23:30 Cardiff train and alight at Reading to connect into their sleeper train.

Pity the passenger(s) who arrives at Paddington at 23:31 or will the 23.30 to Cardiff be held till 23:45.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 06, 2018, 10:13:02 pm
Even worse if you subscribe to GWR travel alerts

Quote
Disruption has been reported between London Paddington and Penzance.

The 23:45 will be cancelled due to a fault on this train.

Although to be fair if you booked a berth they will have taken a phone number to contact you on.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Ollie on August 06, 2018, 11:48:00 pm
From gwr.com

Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance Sleeper Train

Due to a fault affecting the locomotive pulling the sleeper service from London Paddington to Penzance, and the necessity to replace it with another locomotive from Reading Train Care Depot, the 23:45 from London Paddington to Penzance will start at Reading at 00:46. Sleeper train customers will be able to make use of the First Class Lounge at Paddington, and should catch the 23:30 Cardiff train and alight at Reading to connect into their sleeper train.

Pity the passenger(s) who arrives at Paddington at 23:31 or will the 23.30 to Cardiff be held till 23:45.
It left at 2345.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 06, 2018, 11:50:41 pm
Well common sense tells you it would!   ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on August 07, 2018, 05:34:36 am
Well common sense tells you it would!   ;)

Real time trains shows the Cardiff service leaving at 23:45 from Paddington and good time allowed for the connection to the sleeper, which as a result left there late.   As I write, though, the sleeper has made up that shortfall and is on time at Newton Abbott.    The Cardiff remained 15 late all the way.

Probably the best solution in the circumstances, as indeed common sense suggests.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on August 07, 2018, 05:57:33 am
Well common sense tells you it would!   ;)


Has someone in GWR HQ got some ? Tell that to Grahame with his missed connections.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on August 07, 2018, 06:39:18 am
Well common sense tells you it would!   ;)

Has someone in GWR HQ got some ? Tell that to Grahame with his missed connections.

GrahamE here - that missed connection episode, with the photo I took of people dashing up to the train as it pulled out - is now with GWR for inclusion in staff training as an example of what not to do.   Time can't be rolled back to correct that day last month, but there is some comfort in lessons being widely learned.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 07, 2018, 10:18:38 am
Even more common sense was applied, by having the Cardiff train use Platform 12 at Reading with the sleeper on 13 for cross platform interchange.   :o


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on August 07, 2018, 10:28:22 am
Even more common sense was applied, by having the Cardiff train use Platform 12 at Reading with the sleeper on 13 for cross platform interchange.   :o


Was it, or did the Network Rail signaller suggest it ? Who ever it was, good thinking.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 07, 2018, 10:32:08 am
Often late evening sees only P12-15 in use as through platforms anyway.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 07, 2018, 12:54:05 pm
Often late evening sees only P12-15 in use as through platforms anyway.
Quite often yes, although not the case last night.

Even more common sense was applied, by having the Cardiff train use Platform 12 at Reading with the sleeper on 13 for cross platform interchange.   :o


Was it, or did the Network Rail signaller suggest it ? Who ever it was, good thinking.

I don't know, I was going to say that the most surprising thing that happened was that someone in the TVSC must have actually over ridden the ARS for this to happen! Now that is a shock, S&TEngineer would never believe it!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 07, 2018, 02:31:09 pm
Often late evening sees only P12-15 in use as through platforms anyway.
Quite often yes, although not the case last night.

Even more common sense was applied, by having the Cardiff train use Platform 12 at Reading with the sleeper on 13 for cross platform interchange.   :o

Was it, or did the Network Rail signaller suggest it ? Who ever it was, good thinking.

I don't know, I was going to say that the most surprising thing that happened was that someone in the TVSC must have actually over ridden the ARS for this to happen! Now that is a shock, S&TEngineer would never believe it!

Ah yes.  But that would probably have been at the request of GWR, so they take any delay minutes hit.  Still waiting for ARS to sort itself elsewhere (might be a very long wait;  bit like an ARS delayed train)......


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: rower40 on August 07, 2018, 06:15:21 pm
I don't know, I was going to say that the most surprising thing that happened was that someone in the TVSC must have actually over ridden the ARS for this to happen! Now that is a shock, S&TEngineer would never believe it!

Ah yes.  But that would probably have been at the request of GWR, so they take any delay minutes hit.  Still waiting for ARS to sort itself elsewhere (might be a very long wait;  bit like an ARS delayed train)......
Haven't you heard? NR have installed a Traffic Management system, 'Luminate'.  Now I have no evidence that this is what happened, but I've been led to believe that such a scenario is well within its capabilities; re-time and re-platform the Cardiff train, re-time the empty sleeper to terminate at Reading platform 13, and have the sleeper proper start there.  Two shakes of a mouse's tail, a few key-clicks here and there, the occasional "Out of Cheese" Error, and new timetables are downloaded to ARS for it to run the trains.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 07, 2018, 06:18:52 pm
Looking back to last week on RTT the two services often used platforms 12 and 13.

As Industry Insider mentioned earlier this is quite common due to engineering work closing lines.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 07, 2018, 07:22:31 pm
Yes, last week because the main lines were shut east of Reading, this week the relief lines are shut both east and west of Reading, meaning P9 should be used by the Cardiff


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 07, 2018, 07:36:02 pm
Out of interest what is open *west* of Reading.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: stuving on August 07, 2018, 08:00:25 pm
Yes, last week because the main lines were shut east of Reading, this week the relief lines are shut both east and west of Reading, meaning P9 should be used by the Cardiff

? But last night was this week!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on August 07, 2018, 08:26:18 pm
Out of interest what is open *west* of Reading.

Keep very quiet .... but I think the Berks and Hants via Pewsey is actually open this week!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 07, 2018, 08:27:35 pm
Ok, so last week, both the Cardiff and Penzance used P12/P13, the main lines were shut between Slough and Reading.

This week, which includes last night, the relief lines are shut between Slough (or further east) and Reading, the relief lines are also closed between Tilehurst and Didcot, meaning most if not all through trains, including the Cardiff and the Penzance are scheduled to use platforms 7-11. Services that are running on the main line through Twyford, and on the main line through Tilehurst are highly unlikely to be scheduled to use Platforms 12-15, though does happen occasionally.

Last night the Penzance was in P13 as it had only come from the depot and not from Paddington. The Cardiff would have been scheduled to use P8 or 9, but was presumably routed into P12 to allow sleepy passengers to cross platform.

Anyway, at least GWR/NR made the best of an unfortunate situation and common sense seemed to prevail all round


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 07, 2018, 09:18:50 pm
Out of interest what is open *west* of Reading.

Keep very quiet .... but I think the Berks and Hants via Pewsey is actually open this week!

Indeed - although Pewsey lost its early morning service west this morning - albeit replaced by a special call on a service two hours later.

As you probably guessed I was thinking of the four track railway heading towards Didcot where invariably two of the four lines are closed.  (As the good people of Pangbourne no doubt notice!)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 17, 2018, 09:08:25 pm
Tonight's down Night Riviera is starting from Reading rather than Paddington.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 18, 2018, 06:17:52 am
Tonight's down Night Riviera is starting from Reading rather than Paddington.

Make that Didcot Parkway.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on August 27, 2018, 08:40:56 am
Last night's down Night Riviera was terminated at Par. Brake problems.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on September 12, 2018, 05:11:27 am
Night of Tue Sep 11 into Wed Sep 12:
Quote
11/09/18 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 is being delayed between Castle Cary and Taunton by 210 minutes but is expected to be 100 minutes late from Plymouth.
This is due to a fault on this train.

 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
Facilities on the 11/09/18 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 7 from Reading.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on September 12, 2018, 06:50:45 am
Failed between Somerton and Athelney with an oil leak.

Rescued to Taunton where its currently (at 0645) sat. No idea where the rescue traction came from. I suspect it may be terminated at Taunton. Either because it can't continue with rescue traction or because staff  are out of hours. Usual crew change is at Exeter around 0300.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 12, 2018, 07:44:41 am
Now on the move from Taunton 299 minutes late.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on September 12, 2018, 10:27:18 am
Failed between Somerton and Athelney with an oil leak.

Rescued to Taunton where its currently (at 0645) sat. No idea where the rescue traction came from. I suspect it may be terminated at Taunton. Either because it can't continue with rescue traction or because staff  are out of hours. Usual crew change is at Exeter around 0300.



57604, the ECS loco, ran from Reading to Taunton and coupled on the front.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 12, 2018, 10:28:49 am
Hence why the up sleeper was terminated at Reading and passengers sent forward on a two car unit.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 12, 2018, 10:36:45 am
Hence why the up sleeper was terminated at Reading and passengers sent forward on a two car unit.

Now that's what I call a rude awakening!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 12, 2018, 10:51:17 am
On the assumption the rescuing loco started the night on the front of the sleeper from Penzance I wonder if the same loco has ever brought the down sleeper back into Penzance the next morning.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on September 12, 2018, 10:53:21 am
Hence why the up sleeper was terminated at Reading and passengers sent forward on a two car unit.

Now that's what I call a rude awakening!

Are you sure?   I expect that the people on board were awake long before they got to Reading ... wonder what time that was ...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 12, 2018, 10:56:07 am
Hence why the up sleeper was terminated at Reading and passengers sent forward on a two car unit.

Now that's what I call a rude awakening!

Are you sure?   I expect that the people on board were awake long before they got to Reading ... wonder what time that was ...

Arrrived Reading slightly early at 03:18 - replacement train left at 04:48 (23 minutes late).


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 12, 2018, 11:04:56 am
Hence why the up sleeper was terminated at Reading and passengers sent forward on a two car unit.

Now that's what I call a rude awakening!

Though at least those on the down service alighting at Exeter, Newton Abbot and Plymouth arrived in perfect time for breakfast.   ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on September 12, 2018, 11:07:57 am
Hence why the up sleeper was terminated at Reading and passengers sent forward on a two car unit.

Now that's what I call a rude awakening!

Are you sure?   I expect that the people on board were awake long before they got to Reading ... wonder what time that was ...

Arrrived Reading slightly early at 03:18 - replacement train left at 04:48 (23 minutes late).

I'm getting confused between up and down trains.  You would think for our sake they could arrange for the up and down problems to be on different nights so we don't get mixed up!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 12, 2018, 11:12:26 am
I think the up problem was as a result of the down problem - ie they needed the loco to rescue the failed service which was blocking the line.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 12, 2018, 12:54:08 pm
Or would it have been that the loco that they attach at Reading was sent down to do the rescuing, which would have meant had the up sleeper continued to Paddington, there would have been no loco to pull it back out again?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on September 12, 2018, 02:11:02 pm
Not related to last night.

Is it really a sustainable long term solution to have the Night Riviera stock shunted to and from Reading?

Far too easy for services to be regularly terminated or started from there. Operational convenience ahead of customer service.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 12, 2018, 02:20:07 pm
Not related to last night.


Operational convenience ahead of customer service.


The most succinct and accurate description of GWR I have yet seen...……….BNM there is a good marketing man lost in you!!!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 12, 2018, 05:23:06 pm
Not related to last night.

Is it really a sustainable long term solution to have the Night Riviera stock shunted to and from Reading?

Far too easy for services to be regularly terminated or started from there. Operational convenience ahead of customer service.

With Old Oak Common rapidly disappearing, it is the nearest diesel depot to London unless GWR can negotiate access to the fuel lines at North Pole.  But there's also the need to tank the carriages and sort the linen.  I am not sure Hitachi would want all that going on around their site.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 12, 2018, 05:24:58 pm
On the assumption the rescuing loco started the night on the front of the sleeper from Penzance I wonder if the same loco has ever brought the down sleeper back into Penzance the next morning.

I believe it was the one that started the night on the rear at Paddington and would have been needed from Paddington to depot. They terminated at Reading so the depot shunter can bring the stock in.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: a-driver on September 12, 2018, 06:23:14 pm
Or would it have been that the loco that they attach at Reading was sent down to do the rescuing, which would have meant had the up sleeper continued to Paddington, there would have been no loco to pull it back out again?

Correct.  The sleeper stock would have occupied a platform at Paddington for the duration of the peak which would have inconvenienced far more people than those on the sleeper. 

A Turbo unit worked in place of the sleeper between Reading and Paddington. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 12, 2018, 06:48:18 pm
The 'Greenford' turbo that runs ECS from Reading to Paddington anyway having done the early morning stopper from Oxford


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 12, 2018, 07:19:15 pm
The sleeper stock would have occupied a platform at Paddington for the duration of the peak which would have inconvenienced far more people than those on the sleeper. 

Especially as Platform 1 at Paddington was closed due to a signal failure for a while and platforms 4-6 affected by overhead line problems. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 26, 2018, 06:55:16 am
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
25/09/18 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 is being delayed at Plymouth and is now expected to be 150 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bradshaw on September 26, 2018, 08:14:28 am
Arrived only 39 late
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40039/2018/09/25/advanced


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on September 26, 2018, 09:39:47 am
Arrived only 39 late
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40039/2018/09/25/advanced

As HST.   ECS 5A40 on way to Reading


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: rower40 on September 28, 2018, 10:22:19 pm
With the questionable reliability of the class 57s, the soon-to-be-surplus HSTs, and the fact that the sleeper stock is Mk3, is there any mileage in the idea of top-n-tailing the sleeper with Class 43 power cars?
Electrical systems are different between sleeper and day Mk3 stock, but that can't be an insurmountable problem.  This idea does, however, prevent the re-introduction of a Plymouth portion.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on September 29, 2018, 05:55:44 am
With the questionable reliability of the class 57s, the soon-to-be-surplus HSTs, and the fact that the sleeper stock is Mk3, is there any mileage in the idea of top-n-tailing the sleeper with Class 43 power cars?
Electrical systems are different between sleeper and day Mk3 stock, but that can't be an insurmountable problem.  This idea does, however, prevent the re-introduction of a Plymouth portion.

I recall a discussion along these lines in the past that suggested a major problem would be the wiring of the carriages - although they're Mk3 stock, the answer was that the electrics are far too different to convert them.  Whether wiring does make it really impossible, whether that just makes it very difficult indeed, or whether it was a convenient answer to kick an option into the long grass, I don't know.

Utopia for a TOC is a standard set of stock to run all of its services.  Nightmare is having every locomotive / unit different.  The ability to reduce your stock types by one must surely be tempting.  Given as the reason the slammers were pulled from Lymington. Yet I'm amazed at the switch away from class 153 on Stourbridge Town. Even the heritage lines find the same issues - noting the South Devon Railway's delight at getting a class 25 in place of a 37 recently on the grounds of "good - we have 2 of those already" - note - link needed and my report  may be accurate only in concept.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 29, 2018, 07:48:56 am
With the current sleeper stock nearing the end of a refurbishment programme I doubt they would want to start re-wiring them at this point.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on September 29, 2018, 09:38:48 am
With the current sleeper stock nearing the end of a refurbishment programme I doubt they would want to start re-wiring them at this point.

Out of context - that reminds me of a fear I have about the relaying of Westbury North Junction by Network Rail - replacement of like for like when we have been screaming out for the provision of a track alongside the fourth platform.   When asked about passive provision, I'm told:

Quote
We’re not aware of any proposals to assist specifically with capacity, timekeeping or robustness of service.
and
Quote
The work at Christmas is indeed like-for-like renewal of the S&C at Westbury North

and I am, frankly, open mouthed in astonishment that "we" which is GWR are not aware of any proposals to deal with capacity.

And - here's what I suspect Bobm's thinking would be said if the replacement of 57s by 43s and associated rewiring was proposed in the near term ...

Quote
Our concern would be that we are already inconveniencing Westbury and the TransWilts significantly this Christmas, and so we would need to consider any future engineering enhancement works, balancing the short-term disruption against the benefit to GWR and passengers in the longer term.

Perhaps that's also a convenient way of diverting requests to spend money - especially when some of that could (have been) saved by doing both things at once.

They don't seem to have worried too much about taking daytime services away for 60+ days this year ... mostly to do with a neighbouring line that TransWilts passengers rarely connect to ... so I'm sure another couple of weekends to enable services to actually connect at Westbury would be accepted ...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on September 29, 2018, 10:43:42 am
With the current sleeper stock nearing the end of a refurbishment programme I doubt they would want to start re-wiring them at this point.

Surely it is not beyond the wit of man to produce a conversion lead to convert the electrical supply wiring from an HST power car to that at the other end to match the electrical supply wiring from a class 57.

I am old enough to remember when "square" pin plugs were introduced. My dad produced conversion leads with a round pin plug at one end and a "square" plug at the other when we moved from a council prefab to a new house.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ellendune on September 29, 2018, 11:08:42 am
Yes but square and round pin plugs still had three wires with the same 240 volts (in those days) AC and Earth. albeit the structure of the wiring behind it was different.  The wiring between the two power cars of an HST carry signals that control the engines use a system to carry these signals.  I do not know if there are the same number of wires as the class 57 work on the same voltage; or even if the class 57 have any control links when two of them work a single train, but even if they similar in that respect, a complex signal sometimes means the wires have to be made in a certain way (twisted or shielded or both and of a certain thickness and with a certain specification) for the signal to reach the other end in a recognisable form. 

I am sure there are others on here who know much more about it and can give a more informed answer.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: stuving on September 29, 2018, 11:44:58 am
The big difference between HST Mk 3s and LHCS ones is the auxiliary power supply. On LHCS stock (not just Mk 3s) this is DC (though they can cope with AC) at something in the range 700-1000 V. It gets converted by a motor/alternator set (originally) on each carriage to more useful supplies like 415/240 V AC and 28 V DC. In HSTs, the supply from the power car is at 415 V AC (3 phase). Since the train heating runs off the power as supplied, i.e. 750 V DC (nominal), you can't just wire one to the other. I'm assuming, in the absence of an actual document, that the sleeper stock is the same as LHCS Mk 3 day stock, apart from some updating (e.g. inverters to replace motor/generators).

Of course if you wanted to convert between these power supplies, there is no technical problem - boxes to do it are easily made these days. You'd just need to decide to do it and find the money.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on October 12, 2018, 02:03:18 pm
The Paddington - Penzance arrived 128 minutes late having left Paddington 164 minutes late. I'm assuming that this was a late inbound of the empty stock and weather related.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: ChrisB on October 12, 2018, 02:04:01 pm
I heard it got stopped by a fallen tree?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on October 12, 2018, 02:07:57 pm
Depending on the severity of the winds a downed tree would probably count as weather related.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on October 13, 2018, 01:15:35 am
The Friday night Penzance to Paddington service is delayed due to a track safety inspection. Expected to leave 225 minutes late at 01:30 and drops Totness and Newton Abbot from the stops.
This is due to a safety inspection of the track.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 13, 2018, 07:22:55 am
The Friday night Penzance to Paddington service is delayed due to a track safety inspection. Expected to leave 225 minutes late at 01:30 and drops Totness and Newton Abbot from the stops.
This is due to a safety inspection of the track.

Terminating at Reading 4 hours late.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: old original on October 19, 2018, 06:35:49 am
Down service terminating at Plymouth this morning


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Incider on October 19, 2018, 09:21:17 am
The big difference between HST Mk 3s and LHCS ones is the auxiliary power supply. On LHCS stock (not just Mk 3s) this is DC (though they can cope with AC) at something in the range 700-1000 V. It gets converted by a motor/alternator set (originally) on each carriage to more useful supplies like 415/240 V AC and 28 V DC. In HSTs, the supply from the power car is at 415 V AC (3 phase). Since the train heating runs off the power as supplied, i.e. 750 V DC (nominal), you can't just wire one to the other. I'm assuming, in the absence of an actual document, that the sleeper stock is the same as LHCS Mk 3 day stock, apart from some updating (e.g. inverters to replace motor/generators).

Of course if you wanted to convert between these power supplies, there is no technical problem - boxes to do it are easily made these days. You'd just need to decide to do it and find the money.

And fit 36 way control to all the coaches, there is also an obstacle with the fire detection system and the electrical supply, the supply from an HST is variable (275v - 415v with the accompanying variation in Hz) and quite ‘dirty’ and it wasn’t deemed a viable option.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rob on the hill on October 19, 2018, 09:53:33 am
Down service terminating at Plymouth this morning

Seems to have continued later to Penzance ECS. Wonder what arrangements were made for the passengers?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O49307/2018/10/19/advanced


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rob on the hill on October 19, 2018, 10:00:39 am
Down service terminating at Plymouth this morning

Seems to have continued later to Penzance ECS. Wonder what arrangements were made for the passengers?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O49307/2018/10/19/advanced
Cross Country seem to have provided the replacement service;
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C76004/2018/10/19/advanced


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Incider on October 19, 2018, 03:11:08 pm
Down service terminating at Plymouth this morning

Seems to have continued later to Penzance ECS. Wonder what arrangements were made for the passengers?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O49307/2018/10/19/advanced

Loco lost train supply at Exeter, sleeper coaches have to be taken out of service within 3 hours of that happening, as no air con and batteries will only supply lighting and essential systems for that long.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on October 20, 2018, 06:48:36 pm
Was at Paddington last night heading out on to the Cotswolds. As I passed the sleeper on platform one there were two people looking in at a berth through a window where the blind was up. One of the two was explaining that you now had the option to convert between a bed and a sofa. The second said what's the point of that given the boarding time? The first said it's useful when some idiot brings down the power lines and there's big delays.  ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 12, 2018, 05:15:38 am
23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 08:59
11/11/18 23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 08:59 has been delayed at London Paddington and is now 180 minutes late.
This is due to a broken down train.
Last Updated:12/11/2018 03:05


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on November 12, 2018, 05:57:46 am
23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 08:59
11/11/18 23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 08:59 has been delayed at London Paddington and is now 180 minutes late.
This is due to a broken down train.
Last Updated:12/11/2018 03:05

Left Paddington 191 minute late.

Scheduled arrival at Penzance 08:59 (public timetable), 08:55 Working Timetable.
Journey Check suggest arrival will be at 11:59
Real Time Trains suggests arrival will be at 08:54


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 12, 2018, 07:09:46 am
23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 08:59
11/11/18 23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 08:59 has been delayed at London Paddington and is now 180 minutes late.
This is due to a broken down train.
Last Updated:12/11/2018 03:05

Left Paddington 191 minute late.

Scheduled arrival at Penzance 08:59 (public timetable), 08:55 Working Timetable.
Journey Check suggest arrival will be at 11:59
Real Time Trains suggests arrival will be at 08:54

A failing with journey check is it doesn’t update to reflect recovery time. Once someone tells it, the train is 3 hours late it treats it as 3 hours late throughout.
I notice it lost a further 15 mins between Plymouth and saltash, and appears to have gone a different route to programmed on real-time. It disappeared between reading and Taunton!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on November 12, 2018, 08:19:42 am
Looking at JourneyCheck in the early hours of the morning, it looked as if it had left Paddington on time, got stuck behind the failed train, and then decided to go back to Paddington.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 13, 2018, 06:09:30 am
Bit of a lie-in!

21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:19
12/11/18 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:19 will no longer call at Totnes and Newton Abbot.
It has been previously delayed, has been further delayed at Plymouth and is now 195 minutes late.
This is due to slippery rails.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bradshaw on November 13, 2018, 08:48:07 am
According to RTT it lost 157 minutes between Lostwithiel and Largin and a further 20 before leaving Liskeard.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on November 13, 2018, 08:56:34 am
According to RTT it lost 157 minutes between Lostwithiel and Largin and a further 20 before leaving Liskeard.

Ahh, the folly of not providing diesel traction with sanding equipment.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on November 13, 2018, 09:08:28 am
They did apply sand but still couldn't get sufficient grip.  The train was eventually helped through to Liskeard by the Rail Head Treatment Train which had been following it.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bradshaw on November 13, 2018, 10:07:21 am
RTT showing the same times for 1A40 and RHTT  at Largin,

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LRGN/2018/11/13/0146


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on November 13, 2018, 05:44:28 pm
They did apply sand but still couldn't get sufficient grip.  The train was eventually helped through to Liskeard by the Rail Head Treatment Train which had been following it.

Sand applied by hand to assist a stationary train is not much use but sand applied onto a slippery rail under a moving train does give it a fighting chance of getting where it has to go.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on November 28, 2018, 04:32:25 pm
Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:01


21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:01 will be terminated at Reading.

It will no longer call at London Paddington.

It will be starting late from Penzance and is expected to be 120 minutes late.

This is due to a fault on this train.

Additional Information
GWR apologies for the delay and alteration to this evenings Night Riveria sleeper service from Penzance to London Paddington.

The service will be subject to a late start from Penzance and is expected to depart 120 minutes late at 23:45 and will terminate at Reading.

On arrival at Reading, customers are advised to board the next available service towards London Paddington to complete their journey.


Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55


23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 will be started from Reading.

It will no longer call at London Paddington.

This is due to a fault on this train.

Additional Information
We apolgise for the alteration to this evenings Night Riveria sleeper service from London Paddington to Penzance. The service will now START at Reading.

Customers are advised to board the 23:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads service which will be held at London Paddington and depart at 23:45 to connect with the Night Riveria sleeper service starting at Reading.

There is a light loco leaving Reading at 17:05 to run to Penzance - so obviously a problem with the Class 57 at Long Rock.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Kernow Otter on November 28, 2018, 06:52:59 pm
Lovely run for someone !

Seriously, the catalogue of incidents with the Night Riviera is a shame.  The investment in the service has been well done, and is much appreciated, but the reliability must be of some concern to everyone.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on November 28, 2018, 07:02:36 pm
For some reason the light loco didn’t leave Reading until just before 19:00 and isn’t due into Penzance until midnight.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 29, 2018, 06:03:42 am
Sounds like a pretty miserable experience all round...………….

28/11/18 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:01 will be terminated at Reading High Level Jn.
It will no longer call at St Erth, Camborne, Redruth, St Austell, Par, Bodmin Parkway, Liskeard, Totnes, Newton Abbot and London Paddington.
It has been previously delayed and is now 147 minutes late from Taunton.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Additional Information

GWR apologies for the delay and alteration to this evenings Night Riveria sleeper service from Penzance to London Paddington.

The service will be subject to a late start from Penzance and will be terminated at Reading.

Ticket acceptance has been agreed with Cross Country on their 22:10 Penzance to Plymouth service for any customers who wish to travel to Plymouth to make use of the lounge facilities at the station and await the sleeper service.

On arrival at Reading, customers are advised to board the next available service towards London Paddington to complete their journey.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Timmer on November 29, 2018, 06:10:44 am
The 57s have got to be replaced but ooooooooz gonna pay for it?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on November 29, 2018, 06:33:13 am
I know it didn't but this made me smile - A nice walk down the hill

Quote
Paddington due 05:01 will be terminated at Reading High Level Jn


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: PhilWakely on November 29, 2018, 06:51:20 am
I know it didn't but this made me smile - A nice walk down the hill

Quote
Paddington due 05:01 will be terminated at Reading High Level Jn

Not a good night for either Sleeper service. Replacement loco had to be sent down to Penzance from Reading so the Up left almost 3 hours late; missed most stops in Cornwall, Totqnes and Newton Abbot before terminating at Reading with further problems - whilst the Down started at Reading for similar reasons


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on November 29, 2018, 07:12:04 am
Agreed - not a good night - but at least it ran.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on November 29, 2018, 07:38:32 am
The down sleeper now being delayed due to a fallen tree between Par and St Austell.

Reports of other fallen trees on the mainline in Cornwall too.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on November 29, 2018, 08:02:34 am
With all these starts and finishes at Reading - something to do with the lack of a 2nd main line locomotive at Reading.  No longer the option of using a class 08 to get the empty train into / out of Paddington?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on November 29, 2018, 10:23:44 am
They used it this morning to drag it in from Reading. I'm guessing they wouldn't want it dragged all the way from Paddington at 15mph, a lot of disruption.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on November 29, 2018, 10:51:02 am
The down sleeper now being delayed due to a fallen tree between Par and St Austell.

1C99 after its disagreement with a tree:

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/rps20181129_104032_zpszjekwmrh.jpg)
Picture credit: co-tr-paul RailUK Forums (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-cornish-night-riviera-sleeper-and-gwr-class-57-updates-from-long-rock.127881/page-38#post-3755101)

That'll buff out. ;D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on November 29, 2018, 03:17:26 pm
Tonight's down starts at Reading again and the up terminates at Reading but both due to be away on time.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 29, 2018, 07:05:21 pm
…...alternatively you could sleep at home and fly from Newquay to Gatwick or from Exeter to London City in the morning in just over an hour.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 29, 2018, 07:46:41 pm
With all these starts and finishes at Reading - something to do with the lack of a 2nd main line locomotive at Reading.  No longer the option of using a class 08 to get the empty train into / out of Paddington?

The loco scheduled to drag to and fro Paddington was the one sent light engined to Penzance, leaving nothing to do the Paddington dead pull.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on November 29, 2018, 08:30:49 pm
Tonight's down starts at Reading again and the up terminates at Reading but both due to be away on time.

I really wouldn't fancy having to get out on 03:59 at Reading to get on another train on to London ... and would hope to be able to get to sleep before 00:45 in the other direction.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: metalrail on November 29, 2018, 08:36:03 pm
Tonight's down starts at Reading again and the up terminates at Reading but both due to be away on time.

I really wouldn't fancy having to get out on 03:59 at Reading to get on another train on to London ... and would hope to be able to get to sleep before 00:45 in the other direction.

Same here...  does kind of defeat the object of a 'sleeper'


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on November 29, 2018, 11:38:03 pm
Very poor indeed.
The whole point of a sleeper, is being able to sleep for the whole journey, or for whichever portion of the journey that one desires.
Being able to board the sleeper in good time, and take refreshment  or go straight to bed should be part of it.
A connecting service requiring a change at Reading is really not on. Barely acceptable under exceptional or emergency conditions, but not as a regular feature as is occurring.

A cynic like me might suspect that GWR are trying to get rid of the sleeper. They cant just remove it, as sleeper provision is a franchise requirement.
If however enough passengers can be deterred by the need to change trains at Reading and loose a couple of hours sleep, then revenue might drop enough to be able to remove the service in future.




Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on November 30, 2018, 12:54:48 am
Getting rid of the Sleeper seems a little far fetched considering the money being spent on refitting the Mk3 SLEPs at the moment.

Then there's the political aspect. Previous rumblings of a withdrawal led to a concerted campaign from Plymouth/Cornwall politicians to 'save' the Sleeper. Expect similar again if the next franchise tender allows for withdrawal.

What's actually needed is new locomotives, and possibly DVTs. CAFs Mark 5A DVT with a Class 68 would seem like a good option if they can be married to the Mk3 SLEPs. Having a DVT negates the need to rely on two locomotives for moving stock into and out of Paddington.

Or of course the next franchise could go for Mk5 Sleeper carriages of a similar design to those being introduced on the Caledonian Sleepers.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: metalrail on November 30, 2018, 10:47:51 am
Another sleepless night tonight...

I know engineering work is obviously necessary, but I can't see the point of still running this as a sleeper service when you're expected to be woken up to get off at Plymouth for replacement road transport, then back on another train at St Austell!

"Engineering work is taking place between Liskeard and Par, closing some lines.

The 23:45 London Paddington to Par "Night Riviera" Sleeper service will terminate at Plymouth. Replacement road transport will run from Plymouth to St Austell for a rail connection onwards to Truro and stations to Penzance.

There will also be a rail connection from Plymouth to Liskeard for road transport from Liskeard to Bodmin Parkway, Lostwithiel and Par.
"


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on November 30, 2018, 11:58:52 am
Getting rid of the Sleeper seems a little far fetched considering the money being spent on refitting the Mk3 SLEPs at the moment.

Then there's the political aspect. Previous rumblings of a withdrawal led to a concerted campaign from Plymouth/Cornwall politicians to 'save' the Sleeper. Expect similar again if the next franchise tender allows for withdrawal.

What's actually needed is new locomotives, and possibly DVTs. CAFs Mark 5A DVT with a Class 68 would seem like a good option if they can be married to the Mk3 SLEPs. Having a DVT negates the need to rely on two locomotives for moving stock into and out of Paddington.

Or of course the next franchise could go for Mk5 Sleeper carriages of a similar design to those being introduced on the Caledonian Sleepers.

Yes, it is rather far fetched.
Almost as far fetched as a suggestion that proper inter-city trains could be replaced with 5 car DMUs without buffets.

A survey needs to be done to show that hardly anyone uses the sleeper and that a non-sleeper train would be preferred by most.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 30, 2018, 12:05:14 pm
Getting rid of the Sleeper seems a little far fetched considering the money being spent on refitting the Mk3 SLEPs at the moment.

Then there's the political aspect. Previous rumblings of a withdrawal led to a concerted campaign from Plymouth/Cornwall politicians to 'save' the Sleeper. Expect similar again if the next franchise tender allows for withdrawal.

What's actually needed is new locomotives, and possibly DVTs. CAFs Mark 5A DVT with a Class 68 would seem like a good option if they can be married to the Mk3 SLEPs. Having a DVT negates the need to rely on two locomotives for moving stock into and out of Paddington.

Or of course the next franchise could go for Mk5 Sleeper carriages of a similar design to those being introduced on the Caledonian Sleepers.

Yes, it is rather far fetched.
Almost as far fetched as a suggestion that proper inter-city trains could be replaced with 5 car DMUs without buffets.

A survey needs to be done to show that hardly anyone uses the sleeper and that a non-sleeper train would be preferred by most.

I Think maybe a better idea is to have four IETS Converted into sleeper trains, these would be more efficient. Or specially built trains with smaller windows for 1st and standard with a 1st and std breakfast coach.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on November 30, 2018, 12:19:08 pm
A DMU sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on November 30, 2018, 12:26:42 pm
A DMU sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

I recall seeing a picture of a 153 in "Night Star" livery at Blaeneau Ffestiniog.  For the "Beds to Brussels" service?

To be fair, I think it was photoshopped ...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on November 30, 2018, 04:46:36 pm
A DMU sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.

Have a day off, he was only making a suggestion that isn’t a silly one.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 30, 2018, 06:49:24 pm
A DMU sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.

Have a day off, he was only making a suggestion that isn’t a silly one.

Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC's requirements.   ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on November 30, 2018, 09:17:21 pm
A DMU sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.

Have a day off, he was only making a suggestion that isn’t a silly one.

Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC's requirements.   ;)

It was more the fact that it’s unnecessary to moan about an Intercity Express Train in a thread about the Night Riviera just as he shows dislike towards the DMU.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Surrey 455 on November 30, 2018, 10:54:38 pm
However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC's requirements.   ;)

How many carriages, compartments & beds does the existing sleeper have? How many do you think could Vivarail offer if they were to do such a thing? How noisy are the D Trains?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 01, 2018, 01:49:46 am
How many carriages, compartments & beds does the existing sleeper have? How many do you think could Vivarail offer if they were to do such a thing? How noisy are the D Trains?

Lots.  Nowhere near as many.  Very noisy.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TonyK on December 05, 2018, 11:38:03 pm
Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC's requirements.   ;)

In a previous, more nomadic, period of my life, I did in fact sleep on the Circle Line, and still don't know where the depot I woke up in is.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Dispatch Box on December 07, 2018, 11:46:49 am
Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC's requirements.   ;)

In a previous, more nomadic, period of my life, I did in fact sleep on the Circle Line, and still don't know where the depot I woke up in is.

You must ave, been very tired,Must of had a good day. Like a teddy bear at a picnic.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TonyK on December 08, 2018, 07:15:01 pm
You must ave, been very tired,Must of had a good day. Like a teddy bear at a picnic.

The opposite. So knackered that I could have slept practically anywhere above water.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Surrey 455 on December 08, 2018, 07:28:43 pm
In a previous, more nomadic, period of my life, I did in fact sleep on the Circle Line, and still don't know where the depot I woke up in is.

Quote from:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_line_(London_Underground)#Depot
Depot
The line's depot is at Hammersmith,[c] close to Hammersmith station, originally built by the Great Western Railway to be operated by the Metropolitan Railway when the joint Hammersmith & City Railway was electrified in the early 20th century.[53] Sidings at Barking, Farringdon and near High Street Kensington (known as Triangle Sidings) stable trains overnight

Those are the current locations you may have woken up in. I don't know if there were previously others.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on January 23, 2019, 08:12:20 am
From The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/new-caledonian-sleeper-trains-complete-first-london-trial-run-1-4860720) ... trials start of the new trains on the other UK Sleeper service

Quote
Delayed new Caledonian Sleeper carriages completed their first trial run to London today.

Introduction of the £100 million fleet, which will include berths with en suite showers and double beds, has been postponed for more than a year to "late May".


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on February 11, 2019, 12:41:18 am
Tonight's (10th/11th February 2019) up Sleeper from Plymouth to Paddington (no service from Cornwall due to engineering work) has been replaced by a HST due to Class 57 loco failure.

Gotta feel sorry for those who'd booked a berth.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 28, 2019, 07:32:13 am
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03


27/02/19 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 is being delayed between Exeter St Davids and Reading and is now expected to be 150 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 28, 2019, 10:55:11 am
It eventually arrived at the much more civilised time of 07:40.  The log makes interesting reading on what action was taken after the fault developed:

“02:11 Exmouth Junction signaller advises he has stopped 1A40 (21:45 Penzance to Paddington) after the signaller noticed sparks coming from underneath the loco (57602) as the train passed the signal box. The driver was contacted via the GSM-R and he has brought his train to a stand approaching signal EJ4.

02:17 Exmouth Junction signaller advises the driver working 1A40 has had a look around the loco with nothing seen to be causing the sparks. The train is now on the move towards Pinhoe with the Guard and Travelling Fitter looking out of the train windows.

02:50 Fitter on board 1A40 advises that there has been some conduit arcing on 57602 involving a cable to the battery boxes. Fitter advised by Maintrol that the train must go forward to clear the single line at Chard Jn. Therefore, it has been a greed with the driver that 1A40 will proceed at maximum 40mph to Westbury. The pilot loco at Reading, 57605, has a Paddington driver with it, and it will be dispatched post haste as 0A40 to Westbury where it will be coupled to 1A40 and double-headed from Westbury to Reading. 57602 will then be dragged dead in tow to Reading.”



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on February 28, 2019, 11:03:47 am
I wonder what was used to get the empty stock back to Reading Train Care Depot after it reached Paddington.   GWR aren't made of Class 57s as we know.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on February 28, 2019, 11:21:04 am
Interesting that the signaller observed sparks coming from the locomotive and stopped the train for examination.

Presumably faults like this will go largely unnoticed when conventional signal boxes are replaced by computerised work stations in distant regional control centers.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 28, 2019, 11:24:56 am
Yes, it’s certainly extra pairs of eyes that can be useful, though of course for lots of routes it’s many years since a ‘box every few miles kept an eye.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: GBM on April 03, 2019, 07:40:41 am
https://www.journeycheck.com/greatwesternrailway/

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55
02/04/19 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 was terminated at Par.
It will no longer call at St Austell, Truro, Redruth, Camborne, Hayle, St Erth and Penzance.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Last Updated:03/04/2019 07:04
Due   Station   Status
23:45   London Paddington   23:45
00:46   Reading   00:46
02:38   Taunton   02:38
04:11   Exeter St Davids   04:11
04:32   Newton Abbot   04:32
05:49   Plymouth   05:49
06:15   Liskeard   06:15
06:29   Bodmin Parkway   06:29
06:35   Lostwithiel   06:35
06:43   Par   06:43
06:52   St Austell   Not Stopping
07:10   Truro   Not Stopping
07:23   Redruth   Not Stopping
07:31   Camborne   Not Stopping
07:40   Hayle   Not Stopping
07:45   St Erth   Not Stopping
07:55   Penzance   Not Stopping

From OTT http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/C58037/2019-04-02
It doesn't seemed to have arrived at Par!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on April 03, 2019, 09:39:18 am
https://www.journeycheck.com/greatwesternrailway/

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55
02/04/19 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 was terminated at Par.
It will no longer call at St Austell, Truro, Redruth, Camborne, Hayle, St Erth and Penzance.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Last Updated:03/04/2019 07:04
Due   Station   Status
23:45   London Paddington   23:45
00:46   Reading   00:46
02:38   Taunton   02:38
04:11   Exeter St Davids   04:11
04:32   Newton Abbot   04:32
05:49   Plymouth   05:49
06:15   Liskeard   06:15
06:29   Bodmin Parkway   06:29
06:35   Lostwithiel   06:35
06:43   Par   06:43
06:52   St Austell   Not Stopping
07:10   Truro   Not Stopping
07:23   Redruth   Not Stopping
07:31   Camborne   Not Stopping
07:40   Hayle   Not Stopping
07:45   St Erth   Not Stopping
07:55   Penzance   Not Stopping

From OTT http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/C58037/2019-04-02
It doesn't seemed to have arrived at Par!

Set off Hot Axle Detector.      Terminated Par 46 Late and shunted into Chapel Sdg


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 03, 2019, 02:07:05 pm
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:12
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:12 will be started from Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Penzance, St Erth, Camborne, Redruth, Truro, St Austell, Par, Bodmin Parkway and Liskeard.
It will be delayed at Plymouth and is expected to be 15 minutes late.
This is due to a broken down train.
Additional Information
Passengers travelling from Stations in Cornwall are advised to board the 22:10 Cross Country service from Penzance to Plymouth. The Night Riviera will be held for Passengers transferring. Ticket acceptance has been agreed.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on April 03, 2019, 02:53:30 pm
A little better than not running the sleeper at all, but still very unsatisfactory.
The whole point of utilising a sleeper train is to sleep, for the whole journey or for whatever part of that journey that one desires.

A connecting service that requires not sleeping for part of the journey is a powerful dis-incentive. As with starting the sleeper at Reading.

A cynic might suspect that GWR are trying to abolish the sleeper. And yes I know that it is a franchise requirement, but that can altered or negotiated away, especially after a carefully managed survey that shows that most passengers would prefer something else.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 03, 2019, 03:01:59 pm
Or it could just be that the engine failure on 57604 on the way down this morning has something to do with it.  ::)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on April 03, 2019, 03:05:13 pm
Quote
A cynic might suspect that GWR are trying to abolish the sleeper

Err, haven't they just spent quite a bit of money on it? Isn't capacity increasing?

There's a detailed thread on the RailUK Forum suggesting that both of the above are the case.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 03, 2019, 03:05:42 pm
Having just refurbished the fleet and opened sleeper lounges in Truro and Penzance I doubt the sleeper service is going to be stopped anytime soon.

I also understand GWR hope to get some of the redundant sleeper coaches from the Caledonian service so the trains can be longer as they are frequently fully booked.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 03, 2019, 03:06:25 pm
Flybe now fly NQY-LHR daily. A 1 hr 20 min flight landing at 0830.....the convenience & speed of this option will hoover up a lot of Cornish customers who previously may have used the sleeper. Problems like this one will drive even more people away from the train & onto the plane


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 03, 2019, 03:07:40 pm
Flybe now fly NQY-LHR daily. A 1 hr 20 min flight landing at 0830.....the convenience & speed of this option will hoover up a lot of Cornish customers who previously may have used the sleeper. Problems like this one will drive even more people away from the train & onto the plane

Except on Sunday they didn't and put everyone on a coach to Heathrow.  Works both ways.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on April 03, 2019, 03:14:07 pm
I am well aware that the proximate cause of this was an engine failure.
However such failures seem to be a common event, and a cynic might suspect that GWR are giving a low priority to obtaining a small fleet of engines that can make the journey reliably.
A failure affecting one nights service often seems to also affect the following night, suggesting perhaps that mending the broken engine, or obtaining a substitute is not a priority.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 03, 2019, 03:20:01 pm
Due to the shortage of Class 57s one has been sent down from Reading and will arrive at Par shortly.  Then in an hour's time it is due to take the whole train to Plymouth.   

I assume it is easier to put the loco on the back of the train and keep the failed on the front.   However I assume some staff from Long Rock have had to be sent up to make the beds and clean the train.

The easy option of course would have been to cancel tonight's train.  ???


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 03, 2019, 05:08:32 pm
The easy option of course would have been to cancel tonight's train.  ???

That would certainly have been the cynical thing to do.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: eightonedee on April 03, 2019, 05:28:20 pm
A (probably ill-informed) thought from someone who passes the stock most working days on my commute, and sometimes see it departing for duty on the way home.

Has anyone thought about adapting one of those driving trailer coaches to put at one end, so they do not spend all the time dragging the trailing locomotive at the rear? They could then deploy the freed-up locos at strategic points on the route to provide emergency cover when (as all too often seems to be the case) there is a failure, and presumably save the fuel in hauling 100 tons plus of dead weight.

Or is that a stupid idea?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 03, 2019, 08:29:38 pm
Flybe now fly NQY-LHR daily. A 1 hr 20 min flight landing at 0830.....the convenience & speed of this option will hoover up a lot of Cornish customers who previously may have used the sleeper. Problems like this one will drive even more people away from the train & onto the plane

So presumably requiring being at NQY by 0630. No public transport will get you to the airport anywhere close to that early. The first bus to the airport from Newquay is just before 0900 departing Newquay bus station, and that’s if you can get to Newquay in time for it.

Public transport links to Newquay airport is poor, but as a regular driver of 1/6 of the daily bus services from Newquay to airport I rarely drop or pick up at the airport so can see why the links are poor.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on April 03, 2019, 08:40:29 pm
A (probably ill-informed) thought from someone who passes the stock most working days on my commute, and sometimes see it departing for duty on the way home.

Has anyone thought about adapting one of those driving trailer coaches to put at one end, so they do not spend all the time dragging the trailing locomotive at the rear? They could then deploy the freed-up locos at strategic points on the route to provide emergency cover when (as all too often seems to be the case) there is a failure, and presumably save the fuel in hauling 100 tons plus of dead weight.

Or is that a stupid idea?

I see no obvious flaw in the suggestion, though the coaches might need additional control cables for through control.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: johnneyw on April 03, 2019, 08:47:34 pm
Not having been on one, I presume train horns are not seen (heard?) as a problem on night sleepers.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on April 03, 2019, 10:14:39 pm
Not having been on one, I presume train horns are not seen (heard?) as a problem on night sleepers.

Ah - you have reading the "train horns wake me at night" thread.

When we ran a hotel, we heard considerable comment about elements of sleep - softness of beds, temperature, ambient light level, and sound.  And everyone is different.   We had guests who complained it was too noisy to sleep. We had other guests (no real difference on provision) who complained it was too quiet. And I should add that 99 guests out of 100 slept well!

Personally, no problem on a sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: stuving on April 03, 2019, 11:42:56 pm
A (probably ill-informed) thought from someone who passes the stock most working days on my commute, and sometimes see it departing for duty on the way home.

Has anyone thought about adapting one of those driving trailer coaches to put at one end, so they do not spend all the time dragging the trailing locomotive at the rear? They could then deploy the freed-up locos at strategic points on the route to provide emergency cover when (as all too often seems to be the case) there is a failure, and presumably save the fuel in hauling 100 tons plus of dead weight.

Or is that a stupid idea?

I think you'll find that that they only drag that extra locomotive between Paddington and Reading, so as to make the reversal at the platform slicker. It is added and removed at Reading, where it quite likely does spend its time doing not a lot. If the sleeper did drag a second locomotive all the way, then of course that would be a spare, available on the spot.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on April 04, 2019, 07:23:51 am
I am amazed that FGW continue to persevere with the class 57's. With the run down of the HST's surely GWR could retain 6 HST power cars for haulage of the sleeper stock. It should not beyond the wit of engineers/electricians to design and fit to these power cars a 'conversion box' to convert the power/electrical supplied to the jumper cables of the sleeper stock with each item of sleep stock fitted with a conduit to carry the power car control system.

The 57's are rebuilds of the class 47's which may factually be OLDER than the oldest of the power cars being displaced.

The ROSCO's say all the GWR redundant HST stock is spoken for but I have not seen any posts on this forum where this stock is going except for the Scottish conversions and the 2 + 4 GWR retentions.

Still, I'm no engineer, electrician or accountant, I'm only the proverbial 'village idiot', what do I know.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on April 04, 2019, 07:44:41 am
HST power cars could be used but the sleeper stock would need modification in order to accept the electric train supply from the HSTs.
This has the merit of keeping the power cars standard and therefore interchangeable with those used on the short HST passenger sets.
Use of a power car at each end would provide "get you home redundancy" when one of them breaks.

Modifying the power cars so as to provide standard ETS would remove this interchangeability with the daytime passenger trains.

Or simply obtain some reliable locomotives ? It cant be that hard can it ? to obtain a few locos that can reliably make the journey, with a trailing load that is modest by freight standards, and at a speed that is modest by passenger train standards.

Use of a heavy locomotive or power car at the front of the train is arguably very slightly safer than push-pull operation with a lightweight Driving van trailer at the front.
Overnight trains are probably at slightly greater risk of striking obstructions than are most daytime services.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on April 04, 2019, 07:56:57 am
Then fit ALL GW power cars with the suggested 'converter box' which would then provide interchangeability, even with those going/gone to Scotland.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on April 04, 2019, 08:04:02 am
Alternative locomotives, what has happened to all those class 67's that were redundant following the cessation of the Royal Mail rail operation and closure of the RailNet centres, they might just be more reliable than the 57's.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 04, 2019, 08:10:08 am
Flybe now fly NQY-LHR daily. A 1 hr 20 min flight landing at 0830.....the convenience & speed of this option will hoover up a lot of Cornish customers who previously may have used the sleeper. Problems like this one will drive even more people away from the train & onto the plane

So presumably requiring being at NQY by 0630. No public transport will get you to the airport anywhere close to that early. The first bus to the airport from Newquay is just before 0900 departing Newquay bus station, and that’s if you can get to Newquay in time for it.

Public transport links to Newquay airport is poor, but as a regular driver of 1/6 of the daily bus services from Newquay to airport I rarely drop or pick up at the airport so can see why the links are poor.

There's a large car park with over 500 spaces. I would doubt that the target market for the early morning flight to Heathrow would be expecting to arrive by bus at that time of day, especially given the size of the catchment area.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on April 04, 2019, 09:47:05 am
Alternative locomotives, what has happened to all those class 67's that were redundant following the cessation of the Royal Mail rail operation and closure of the RailNet centres, they might just be more reliable than the 57's.

This suggestion has been done to death over the years and, in a nutshell, it is not practicable to use 67s for various reasons.    The performance of the 57s has improved immensely over the last 2 years.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 04, 2019, 10:04:42 am
The 57s are performing OK, but will need replacing sooner rather than later.  Rather than modify and use other stock approaching the end of its life, such as HST power cars, I’d favour Class 68s, or two Class 88s (if they would provide enough oomph up the Cornish banks), or even a Class 68 and 88 combination if possible.  The 88 could draw power from the OHLE when available and also act as emergency rescue for the 68 if in difficulty.  Leasing costs might be the deciding factor though.

When the direct award ends and a proper franchise is let I would expect a longer term strategy to be clearer, including replacement of the carriages during the life of that franchise.  I don’t expect the sleeper to finish anytime soon.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 04, 2019, 11:18:28 am
The 57s are performing OK, but will need replacing sooner rather than later.  Rather than modify and use other stock approaching the end of its life, such as HST power cars, I’d favour Class 68s, or two Class 88s (if they would provide enough oomph up the Cornish banks), or even a Class 68 and 88 combination if possible.  The 88 could draw power from the OHLE when available and also act as emergency rescue for the 68 if in difficulty.  Leasing costs might be the deciding factor though.

When the direct award ends and a proper franchise is let I would expect a longer term strategy to be clearer, including replacement of the carriages during the life of that franchise.  I don’t expect the sleeper to finish anytime soon.

Other than Sundays (up) and Thurs/Fridays (down), how busy is the sleeper generally?

Is it profitable?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 04, 2019, 11:55:13 am
I don’t know.  I last used it in the early 90s!  I believe from what I’ve heard that overall it just about breaks even, but if it’s getting busier as others suggest then hopefully it’ll turn a profit, albeit a modest one.

Many people use it for ‘the experience’, so whilst a flight to/from Newquay will offer some competition, certainly if you live in or near Newquay, and it’s good that there’s another option, I doubt it’ll affect passenger numbers too much.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 04, 2019, 01:54:57 pm
The 57s are fairly reliable, we just hear about them every time they fail because of the service they’re hauling!

Where’s the discussion and calling for the replacement of the 150 that failed at Bodmin on Sunday, or the one that failed last week on the Looe branch. That’s more 150 failures in Cornwall alone in the last week than 57 failures across the network!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on April 04, 2019, 02:23:09 pm
The failure of the loco on the sleeper is arguably of greater importance than a failure of most other services.
In many cases daytime passengers can take the next service, being turfed of the sleeper in order to await a non sleeper service is likely to be a much greater inconvenience.

This is an argument for re-purposed HST power cars since a sleeper thus powered should be able to complete its journey on one engine if need be.
Proceeding at reduced performance and loosing time would be preferred by most passengers to changing to a non sleeper train.
The disruption to other trains would also be reduced.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 04, 2019, 02:30:17 pm
The 57s are fairly reliable, we just hear about them every time they fail because of the service they’re hauling!


..and given the scarcity of 57s in GWR land they are often harder to rescue when they do fail.   The errant loco was left in the sidings at Par after the rest of the train had been taken to Plymouth yesterday.  I don't know if it is still there.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on April 04, 2019, 02:47:49 pm
The 57s are fairly reliable, we just hear about them every time they fail because of the service they’re hauling!
..and given the scarcity of 57s in GWR land they are often harder to rescue when they do fail. 

Perhaps there's a case for standardisation - using 802/4s - which would differ from 802/0s purely in their internal configurations.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 04, 2019, 03:04:52 pm
I’ll side with Broadgage there in that underfloor engines are not suitable for a sleeper carriage.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on April 04, 2019, 03:13:50 pm
I’ll side with Broadgage there in that underfloor engines are not suitable for a sleeper carriage.

Not only that, but IET style beds if as hard as the seats might find little favour. Though a plywood base covered with 4mm of foam has the merit of being cheaper than a proper bed.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: eightonedee on April 04, 2019, 09:51:41 pm
Quote
I think you'll find that that they only drag that extra locomotive between Paddington and Reading, so as to make the reversal at the platform slicker. It is added and removed at Reading, where it quite likely does spend its time doing not a lot. If the sleeper did drag a second locomotive all the way, then of course that would be a spare, available on the spot.

Thanks Stuving - I never realised that they only "topped and tailed" between Reading and Paddington. I had occasionally wondered how they manged a train in each direction with two locos when the pool looked so small. Looks like my suggestion at least smoked out who likes 57s and who does not!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: paul7755 on April 05, 2019, 09:53:49 am
Quote
I think you'll find that that they only drag that extra locomotive between Paddington and Reading, so as to make the reversal at the platform slicker. It is added and removed at Reading, where it quite likely does spend its time doing not a lot. If the sleeper did drag a second locomotive all the way, then of course that would be a spare, available on the spot.

Thanks Stuving - I never realised that they only "topped and tailed" between Reading and Paddington. I had occasionally wondered how they manged a train in each direction with two locos when the pool looked so small. Looks like my suggestion at least smoked out who likes 57s and who does not!
Hasn’t the topping and tailing from Reading only been fairly recent, since they lost the use of Old Oak Common?

Paul


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on April 05, 2019, 09:57:17 am
Yes - the loco used to come off Old Oak and follow the train into Paddington and couple up on platform 1.

There was a time in the recent past when the 57s were being particularly troublesome that the trains ran topped and tailed throughout and had a travelling fitter on board.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bradshaw on May 13, 2019, 09:47:02 pm

May 13 from Journey Check
Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:12
Facilities on the 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:12.
This is due to a shortage of trains because of extra safety inspections.
Additional Facilities Information
The sleeper service will be formed of a 9-car Intercity Express Train due to a fault on the original sleeper stock.
Additional Information
Due to a resourcing issue we are unable to operate this evenings Sleeper service between London Paddington and Penzance / Penzance and London Paddington.

We have arranged for this service to be supplemented by our regular High Speed train which will offer a Standard and First Class seating service only. There will be no accommodation facilities.
   


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 13, 2019, 09:52:48 pm
Think that might be the first time the sleeper has been replaced by an IET rather than an HST. Not that will much comfort for those involved. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 13, 2019, 10:08:11 pm
There could be quite a few sleeper coaches in Penzance in the morning!

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/padsleep2.jpg)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rob on the hill on May 13, 2019, 11:05:49 pm
Think that might be the first time the sleeper has been replaced by an IET rather than an HST. Not that will much comfort for those involved. 

Will be interesting to see how passengers cope with the rock-hard seats!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on May 14, 2019, 05:46:07 am
There could be quite a few sleeper coaches in Penzance in the morning!

Balancing working during today??


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 14, 2019, 08:32:19 am
In all seriousness yes there will have to be although I haven’t seen one listed yet. 

There was one to move an IET from Plymouth to Penzance overnight so there haven’t been any cancellations this morning. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rob on the hill on May 14, 2019, 10:02:28 am
Stock move for tonight's down sleeper?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O05736/2019/05/14/advanced


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on May 14, 2019, 02:04:52 pm
.... and here is the empty stock on the Frome avoiding line.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/sleepfro.jpg)

57604 Pendennis Castle leading with 57603 Tintagel Castle bringing up the rear.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on May 30, 2019, 01:44:43 am
Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55
29/05/19 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 will be delayed at Westbury.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Slightly unusual to see a report of a delay at a station that's not on its scheduled passenger stop schedule.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Pb_devon on May 30, 2019, 08:10:33 am
Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55
29/05/19 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 will be delayed at Westbury.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Slightly unusual to see a report of a delay at a station that's not on its scheduled passenger stop schedule.
They were obviously anticipating something worse than it turned out as the delay was about 10 minutes (RTT) - back on time at Taunton departure.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on June 19, 2019, 03:36:46 am
Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
18/06/19 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 has been delayed between Freshford and Chippenham and is now 13 minutes late.
This is due to congestion.

Actually routed Westbury - Swindon.  Held at Bradford Junction awaiting a freight from Acton to Merehead coming 'tother way down the single line.  Looks like timetabling glitch as the freight was only 3 late.

Two Tracks, Now!   :D


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TonyK on June 19, 2019, 05:39:01 am

Two Tracks, Now!   :D

Hey! Steady!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: PhilWakely on June 19, 2019, 08:52:22 am
Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 will be delayed between Freshford and Chippenham.
This is due to a problem currently under investigation.

An interesting routeing for the Up sleeper  ;)

[I guess it was actually routed via Melksham]


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TonyK on June 19, 2019, 08:07:04 pm
Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 will be delayed between Freshford and Chippenham.
This is due to a problem currently under investigation.

An interesting routeing for the Up sleeper  ;)

[I guess it was actually routed via Melksham]

Indeed so, according to RTT, rumbling through 13L, just before 3am, unobserved by all bar the tooth fairy and an occasional passing drunk.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on June 19, 2019, 08:09:15 pm
And the staff who make use of the unadvertised stop at Swindon.  With 10 minutes allowed for that it was all but on time going forward. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on June 19, 2019, 09:14:20 pm
[I guess it was actually routed via Melksham]

Indeed so, according to RTT, rumbling through 13L, just before 3am, unobserved by all bar the tooth fairy and an occasional passing drunk.

The Tooth Fairy did wave to the driver, but how dare you suggest there was even the occasional passing drunk at that time on a WEDNESDAY morning.  Anyone with those tendencies knows very well there's a lock-in at [place name deleted] on a Tuesday night.  I would have agreed with you were it a weekend night!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on June 20, 2019, 01:01:15 am
And again ...

Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 will be delayed between Freshford and Chippenham.
This is due to a problem currently under investigation.

... timetable clash on the line section that needs to be "two tracks, now!"??  Sleeper should easily make up the delay again if that guess is right.  On a scale of 1 to 10 of how much of a concern to passengers on the train, probably a 0.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on June 20, 2019, 04:58:14 am
And again ...

Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 will be delayed between Freshford and Chippenham.
This is due to a problem currently under investigation.

... timetable clash on the line section that needs to be "two tracks, now!"??  Sleeper should easily make up the delay again if that guess is right.  On a scale of 1 to 10 of how much of a concern to passengers on the train, probably a 0.

Went through Melksham 5 early ... sat at Swindon for 15 minutes.   The stone empties scheduled in the opposite direction on the single line at the same time (!) went through Melksham nearly 30 minutes early, so were back on to respectable double track at Bradford Junction some 12 minutes before the sleeper passed into the bottleneck.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on August 05, 2019, 06:04:16 am
Oh dear, at 06:00 a clean JourneyCheck sheet spoiled by last nights service ;-

23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 08:55 will be starting late from London Paddington and is expected to be 1 minute late.
This is due to congestion.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 05, 2019, 06:07:33 am
Oh dear, at 06:00 a clean JourneyCheck sheet spoiled by last nights service ;-

23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 08:55 will be starting late from London Paddington and is expected to be 1 minute late.
This is due to congestion.



Perhaps it's intended to be ironic - "congestion" after all the space created by yesterday's cancellations!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on August 05, 2019, 06:14:43 am
Oh dear, at 06:00 a clean JourneyCheck sheet spoiled by last nights service ;-

23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 08:55 will be starting late from London Paddington and is expected to be 1 minute late.
This is due to congestion.
Perhaps it's intended to be ironic - "congestion" after all the space created by yesterday's cancellations!

More ironic, according to RTT, the service left RT.



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on August 05, 2019, 06:53:21 am
The 1 minute delay reported to the sleeper is probably a side effect from some internal change being flagged up - it reminds me of the changes we used to see on the Westbury - Southampton 11:11 train on days that it was provided by a 153.  153s could not be routed through platform 3 at Salisbury after some works had been done on the platform, and the signalman was alerted by changing the class 2 train into a class 9 train.  Something similar with last night's sleeper??


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on October 18, 2019, 11:14:11 am
The up sleeper failed near Ivybridge last night and had to be rescued by the Rail Head Treatment train.  Carriages were taken back to Plymouth and passengers moved to an IET.  Arrival in London was just over two hours late.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Rob on the hill on October 18, 2019, 05:42:15 pm
The up sleeper failed near Ivybridge last night and had to be rescued by the Rail Head Treatment train.  Carriages were taken back to Plymouth and passengers moved to an IET.  Arrival in London was just over two hours late.

The failed sleeper has been returned to Reading as 5Z70, hauled by 2 back-to-back class 43 power cars.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O49687/2019-10-18/detailed

Picture on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10219751223748490&set=gm.2329623273832401&type=3&theater



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: metallikat75 on November 04, 2019, 09:21:20 am
The up sleeper failed near Ivybridge last night and had to be rescued by the Rail Head Treatment train.  Carriages were taken back to Plymouth and passengers moved to an IET.  Arrival in London was just over two hours late.
I was on this train; the replacement IET had only standard class carriages and set off around 4am, so not much sleep on that part of the journey. Unfortunately history repeated itself last night, when the night riviera broke down again at Plymouth around midnight. They offered hotel rooms, but most people seemed to opt for the replacement IET. This time it had a few first class carriages and the reclining seats made sleep a bit more possible. I’m glad I took my winter coat; it made for a good blanket. Appalling behaviour from some of the passengers towards the onboard staff, I’m sorry to say. Unfortunately I’m now put off using the sleeper in future and am probably going to change the couple of pre-booked tickets I have for it daytime tickets instead.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on November 04, 2019, 11:41:02 am
An ongoing very poor performance.
How hard can it be to purchase or lease a handful of locomotives that are able to reliably make the long and perilous journey between London and Penzance ?

The load is modest compared to many freight trains that run reliably day after day. The timings are relaxed, so no startling performance is needed.

The anger of passengers is well justified, though I am very sorry to hear that this was taken out on the staff, who hopefully did what they could.

Also don't understand the bit about the substitute IET having only standard class seats on one occasion? First class is minimal and rather basic but present on every unit.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on November 04, 2019, 10:27:09 pm
I suspect we are in a period of make do and mend with the Night Riviera fleet. It'll probably be so until such time as a new franchise tender (or whatever form of passenger railway operation the future holds) is enacted.

The sensible thing to do would be to order Mk5 Sleeper carriages from CAF. The bugs have/are being ironed out by Caledonian Sleeper.

They should then be hauled by electro-diesel Class 88s with an uprated diesel generator capable of completing the off wire runs between Newbury/Chippenham/Bristol and the South West.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 05, 2019, 04:58:45 am
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
04/11/19 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 has been previously delayed and is now 68 minutes late from Taunton.
This is due to a fault on this train.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on November 05, 2019, 06:23:54 am
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
04/11/19 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 has been previously delayed and is now 68 minutes late from Taunton.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Rolled in to Paddington 27 minutes late, having been up to 96 minutes late at Newton Abbott and 53 late arriving in Reading.   Shocking record at the moment, but I don't expect too many passengers arriving at Paddington actually want to get off before 05:30.   Of course, if you're headed for an early flight from Heathrow ...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TonyK on November 05, 2019, 10:18:11 am
An ongoing very poor performance.
How hard can it be to purchase or lease a handful of locomotives that are able to reliably make the long and perilous journey between London and Penzance ?

Probably not too hard, but expensive.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: martyjon on November 05, 2019, 10:29:22 am
Didn't occasionally an ex-Pendolino Thunderbird class 57 loco get drafted in to haul this stock and why can't they revert to that situation again


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Celestial on November 05, 2019, 11:22:05 am
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
04/11/19 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 has been previously delayed and is now 68 minutes late from Taunton.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Rolled in to Paddington 27 minutes late, having been up to 96 minutes late at Newton Abbott and 53 late arriving in Reading.   Shocking record at the moment, but I don't expect too many passengers arriving at Paddington actually want to get off before 05:30.   Of course, if you're headed for an early flight from Heathrow ...

You'd be ill-advised to have a schedule that doesn't allow for a half hour delay if travelling from LHR (or most airports unless you've a very short journey to it), particularly on a journey of several hours, even before allowing for the sleeper unreliability.

My other half always used to complain I wanted to leave too early when making such journeys, but those grumbles stopped after we got held for an hour at Swindon due to a fatality ahead.  We still made the flight, though it was a bit too close for comfort.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: rower40 on November 05, 2019, 11:43:01 am
Also don't understand the bit about the substitute IET having only standard class seats on one occasion? First class is minimal and rather basic but present on every unit.
Probably fully-occupied by staff... ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on November 05, 2019, 06:54:09 pm
Didn't occasionally an ex-Pendolino Thunderbird class 57 loco get drafted in to haul this stock and why can't they revert to that situation again

DRS 57306 on the down sleeper 29th October


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: PhilWakely on November 19, 2019, 01:40:43 am
Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55
18/11/19 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 was 28 minutes late but is expected to be on time from Taunton.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 5 coaches.
Additional Information
Due to a train fault we are unable to operate this evenings Sleeper service between London Paddington and Penzance.

We have arranged for this service to be operated by one of our regular Intercity Express Trains which will offer a Standard and First Class seating service only. There will be no accommodation facilities.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 19, 2019, 04:54:02 am
Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55
18/11/19 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 was 28 minutes late but is expected to be on time from Taunton.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 5 coaches.
Additional Information
Due to a train fault we are unable to operate this evenings Sleeper service between London Paddington and Penzance.

We have arranged for this service to be operated by one of our regular Intercity Express Trains which will offer a Standard and First Class seating service only. There will be no accommodation facilities.

That'll make for a pretty miserable journey.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on November 19, 2019, 06:02:22 am
No doubt the generously upholstered seats will be welcome, and perhaps refreshments from the buffet.

More seriously, this level of service is very poor and hardly an inducement to use the service. A cynic might suspect closure by stealth is the intention.
GWR can not readily cease the sleeper as provision is a franchise requirement. Such requirements can however be negotiated  away. Time to do a survey that shows.

"most passengers would prefer a faster and more frequent daytime service"
"the sleeper is only used by small numbers of customers"
Or some such.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: PhilWakely on November 19, 2019, 06:57:17 am
Time to do a survey that shows.

"most passengers would prefer a faster and more frequent daytime service"
"the sleeper is only used by small numbers of customers"
Or some such.

broadgage, you forgot.....
"most passengers would prefer to sleep at their seat"  ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 19, 2019, 11:19:21 am
According to info on the WNXX Forum it was caused by a problem with the lounge car (problem not specified).


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on November 19, 2019, 11:51:38 am
That makes a change from the usual "engine failed" but still contributes to a very poor level of service.
And why could the lounge car not be detached and the train run without it if the fault could not be fixed.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on November 19, 2019, 12:47:16 pm
Looking at Realtime Trains it looks like the failed set followed the IET to Reading then carried on to Bristol as empty stock before continuing to Penzance, again just behind the replacement IET.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 19, 2019, 12:54:08 pm
I’m told it’s the same loco that fails each time recently. Now in my head I’m thinking why not pull it fix it proper and use a different one.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on November 19, 2019, 08:40:21 pm
IET from Redruth to Penzance this morning, and lingered at Penzance to see only a handful of passengers emerge from First Class, so maybe most made other plans/took the accommodation on offer Still, the host in Sleeper lounge looked apprehensive.

I’ve not used the Sleeper berths in recent years since being a regular user in 2010-12. Sadly, I could not now trust the Sleeper for anything work-related as the chances of a sleepless night in an IET seat are too high.

 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on November 19, 2019, 08:42:40 pm
No doubt the generously upholstered seats will be welcome, and perhaps refreshments from the buffet.

More seriously, this level of service is very poor and hardly an inducement to use the service. A cynic might suspect closure by stealth is the intention.
GWR can not readily cease the sleeper as provision is a franchise requirement. Such requirements can however be negotiated  away. Time to do a survey that shows.

"most passengers would prefer a faster and more frequent daytime service"
"the sleeper is only used by small numbers of customers"
Or some such.

Sadly agree.

And of course user numbers will drop when it become set-down only in Cornwall. Convenient


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Timmer on November 19, 2019, 08:45:28 pm
The issue of the future of the sleeper service might be a good question to ask at the next Meet the MD when that time next comes around.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on November 19, 2019, 08:56:13 pm
The issue of the future of the sleeper service might be a good question to ask at the next Meet the MD when that time next comes around.

Yes, but I suspect that the reply will be;
"We are committed to the Night Riveria sleeper, provision of which is a franchise requirement for the current franchise. In the longer term in conjunction with our industry partners, we will respond to changes in customer travel needs"

Or some such. A cynic like me would interpret that as meaning "we cant ditch it yet, but will do so as soon as we can"


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on November 19, 2019, 09:19:16 pm
Who gets the keys to No. 10 will also have a bearing I suspect.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on November 20, 2019, 07:38:31 am
Down Sleeper has failed to appear at Redruth this morning after being reported 10 mins late at Par

The station staff have no idea what has happened.

The following Cross Country is on time, so it can’t be blocking the line


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on November 20, 2019, 07:45:29 am
Correction: just showed up unannounced at 07:45


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: eightonedee on November 20, 2019, 08:52:58 pm
Sadly, I don't see it making much difference.

It needs a Settle-Carlisle like campaign, to encourage use as much as put pressure on politicians. Mind you, I have to confess that the only time I have ever used the Night Riviera was when I commuted in the 1980s and knew that a set-down only stop at Reading meant in reality an extra late train (as evidently did quite a few others!). A friend though who regularly visits the Scillies is a regular.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 20, 2019, 11:13:34 pm
Could they not just get some more reliable locos?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bignosemac on November 21, 2019, 12:30:08 am
Any further investment in the Night Riviera Sleeper is, I suspect, dependant on what happens with the Greater Western franchise.

There may be a direct award for GWR in the first half of 2020. But if GWR and HMG don't reach agreement then we could be looking at a proper franchise competition, which is long overdue. That's if you (and the powers that be) still believe in the existing franchise model.

Of course the potential spanner in the works is the political landscape. How Parliament looks when we all wake up on December 13th will inform the future for rail transport.

My personal preference, regardless of who runs the railways from 2020 and beyond, is for the Sleeper services to and from the South West to be operated by Mk5 SLEPs from CAF, hauled by Class 68s, which can run on both electric and diesel.

The Mk5 SLEPs are now in service on the Caledonian Sleeper franchise. So the Night Riviera can benefit from avoiding the bugs and foibles of introducing new stock. Class 68s have also been around for a while now, hauling Mk5a day carriages for Transpennine Express.

Better all round, I think, for the Night Riviera to go down the route of Class 68s and Mk5s than further life extend the Class 57s and Mk3s.

Ultimately though money and politics talk. The South West of England, unlike Scotland, doesn't have a devolved administration that can finance (aka subsidise) an overnight train service to and from that London. So, for the South West of England, what the DfT (and Treasury) say will hold sway.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: PhilWakely on November 21, 2019, 07:26:24 am
20/11/19.....

Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55
20/11/19 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 will be terminated at Newton Abbot.
It will no longer call at Plymouth, Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway, Lostwithiel, Par, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, Camborne, Hayle, St Erth and Penzance.
This is due to slippery rails.

Failed to crest Dainton and set back to Newton Abbot, where pax were transferred to 2-car 2C41 (0628 Exeter St Davids to Par)

Edit to clarify date of the incident - Grahame


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bradshaw on November 21, 2019, 10:56:27 am
or as RTT succinctly puts it
Quote
This service was cancelled between Newton Abbot and Penzance due to it being Autumn (TT)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: stuving on November 21, 2019, 11:11:38 am
or as RTT succinctly puts it
Quote
This service was cancelled between Newton Abbot and Penzance due to it being Autumn (TT)

Strange to say, that is the official "cause" - or at least a very short version of it. In full, code TT is:
Quote
Autumn-attribution Neutral Zone delays (See Supplementary Autumn Attribution Guidance)

So we'd not have been much the wiser if it said that.

"Neutral zones" are places where some time loss due to leaf problems is accepted as inevitable, and NR and the TOC agree on a certain amount that is taken out of delay attribution (i.e. neutralised). Either party can still be held accountable for excessive time loss. However, he current process is meant to avoid fruitless bickering over delays - to quote the DAPR:
Quote
The principles of this common attribution process are based on reasonableness and pragmatism. The procedures and the guidance, if applied in the right spirit, have the potential to reduce TRUST incident disputes during each Autumn.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on December 04, 2019, 06:04:09 pm
The DRS 57 306 was back on the Down sleeper this morning.

Have to say being transferred from my berth to a 2 car DMU in the very early hours would ensure I never, ever trusted the sleeper again. And that’s sad.

Something has to change.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Jamsdad on December 04, 2019, 06:23:30 pm
Occasionally bad things happen ( i must say never to me) but mostly its very good and I use it a lot.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on December 20, 2019, 01:52:44 am
You'll need to sleep in your own bed (or someone else's) between Christmas and the New Year ...

From The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/rail-train-passenger-disruption-network-south-western-railway-eurostar-gwr-a9253641.html) as part of a longer article of what's running where over the holiday season

Quote
GWR Night Riviera

The first of 11 days of disruption to this London-Penzance overnight service begins gently, with changed timings between Exeter and Plymouth. But the following night, the Penzance-to-London train will go no further than Reading.

And from Christmas Eve to New Year’s Eve, no Night Riviera services will run.

Disruption continues up to and including: New Year’s Day, counting cancelled arrivals that morning. Services re-start in the evening of 1 January 2020.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on December 20, 2019, 06:29:18 am
This isn’t different to any other year in my opinion. For as long as I can remember the sleeper hasn’t run between Christmas and New Year.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TonyK on December 21, 2019, 04:32:23 pm
You'll need to sleep in your own bed (or someone else's) between Christmas and the New Year ...


As the proud owner of four double beds, one kingsize, one superking and a couple of singles (all of which will be filled over Christmas), I can cope.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: GBM on December 21, 2019, 05:54:52 pm
You'll need to sleep in your own bed (or someone else's) between Christmas and the New Year ...


As the proud owner of four double beds, one kingsize, one superking and a couple of singles (all of which will be filled over Christmas), I can cope.
All over to FTN mansion for a paaaartay  ;) ;)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 1st fan on February 10, 2020, 07:54:33 am
The Sleeper to Penzance had a lousy start being as it was 3+hrs late leaving Paddington. It has made some of that up and is now only 2:15 late.  I assume this was due to incoming  crew being late because of the storm.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on February 10, 2020, 09:10:18 am
At least it ran - all the Scottish ones were cancelled.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on February 13, 2020, 01:42:46 pm
1C50 Down Sleeper with 57603 failed and terminated at Plymouth this morning.      ECS ran to Penzance later


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: RivieraRegular on February 15, 2020, 01:14:11 pm
As my username suggests I do a round trip on the Night Riviera once every 2-3 weeks all year round, I found this thread while searching to see if its just me or does it really breakdown so often.

Many of the failures you discuss here I was on including the getting towed back to Plymouth by an engineering train last October (by the way the replacement IET definitely did have first class) and this Thursday's failure to leave Plymouth as the breaks were stuck on (this is what we were told).

I am a huge fan of the Riviera when it works and have nothing but praise for the fantastic staff many of whom now recognise me, but the unreliability is becoming worrying to the extent that I often go up to London a day early if I have a meeting I can't miss just in case, which kind of defeats the point of a sleeper train.

Don't even get me started on how quickly the refurbished cabins are wearing out!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: phile on February 15, 2020, 01:34:09 pm
As my username suggests I do a round trip on the Night Riviera once every 2-3 weeks all year round, I found this thread while searching to see if its just me or does it really breakdown so often.

Many of the failures you discuss here I was on including the getting towed back to Plymouth by an engineering train last October (by the way the replacement IET definitely did have first class) and this Thursday's failure to leave Plymouth as the breaks were stuck on (this is what we were told).

I am a huge fan of the Riviera when it works and have nothing but praise for the fantastic staff many of whom now recognise me, but the unreliability is becoming worrying to the extent that I often go up to London a day early if I have a meeting I can't miss just in case, which kind of defeats the point of a sleeper train.

Don't even get me started on how quickly the refurbished cabins are wearing out!

Breakdowns are quite rare now and the instance quoted in the last post was not actually a failure.    It had actually struck a beer barrel on the track which could happen to any train anywhere.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on February 15, 2020, 05:02:15 pm
As my username suggests I do a round trip on the Night Riviera once every 2-3 weeks all year round, I found this thread while searching to see if its just me or does it really breakdown so often.

Welcome to the forum.  With the best will in the world, a forum like this tends to pick up the operational incidents and oddities and 'headline' them far more that the daily good operation that happens the majority of the time ... just as the GWR site will pick up the positive and headline that to the near-exclusion of bad news.  The real truth comes somewhere between.

Time after time, meeting after meeting (and I have personally been to a lot), what turns customer off and on - what is most critical to them - is reliability.  Forget speed. Forget frequency. Forget cost. Forget comfort. Forget even safety.  I would suspect that - if we had a safety issue that the individual traveller identified with - that would shoot to the top of the list, and it's to the credit of that real industry it's presently a no-issue.

Quote
Many of the failures you discuss here I was on including the getting towed back to Plymouth by an engineering train last October (by the way the replacement IET definitely did have first class) and this Thursday's failure to leave Plymouth as the breaks were stuck on (this is what we were told).

I am a huge fan of the Riviera when it works and have nothing but praise for the fantastic staff many of whom now recognise me, but the unreliability is becoming worrying to the extent that I often go up to London a day early if I have a meeting I can't miss just in case, which kind of defeats the point of a sleeper train.

Don't even get me started on how quickly the refurbished cabins are wearing out!

I cannot speak from experience of planning trips on the Cornish Sleeper - no logical reason to personally us it - but I do on rare occasions use the Caledonian Sleeper.  If my meeting in Scotland is vital (training and I'm the instructor) it's travel up the evening before every time; if I'm there for contract programming or as an audience member at an event, the sleeper works for me.

We have much interest in the sleeper here (that's what brought you to the site!) ... what stats does anyone have to put numbers rather than spin on its performance?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: RivieraRegular on February 15, 2020, 10:06:48 pm
As my username suggests I do a round trip on the Night Riviera once every 2-3 weeks all year round, I found this thread while searching to see if its just me or does it really breakdown so often.

Many of the failures you discuss here I was on including the getting towed back to Plymouth by an engineering train last October (by the way the replacement IET definitely did have first class) and this Thursday's failure to leave Plymouth as the breaks were stuck on (this is what we were told).

I am a huge fan of the Riviera when it works and have nothing but praise for the fantastic staff many of whom now recognise me, but the unreliability is becoming worrying to the extent that I often go up to London a day early if I have a meeting I can't miss just in case, which kind of defeats the point of a sleeper train.

Don't even get me started on how quickly the refurbished cabins are wearing out!

Breakdowns are quite rare now and the instance quoted in the last post was not actually a failure.    It had actually struck a beer barrel on the track which could happen to any train anywhere.

Not sure if you've ever been to platform five at Plymouth,  but I'm sorry I find your beer barrel explanation of the cause of Thursday's breakdown pure fantasy. Perhaps you should visit and speculate how it could possibly have got there and indeed quite how it could have disabled an entire train from a low speed frontal impact.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Western Pathfinder on February 16, 2020, 12:34:46 am
The Sleeper service is Loco hauled,and this being the case it has exposed hose connections for the brakes at the front of the loco ,in this case hitting an object such as a beer barrel or something similar placed on the track would cause a total loss of brake pressure leading to a failure to proceed.

 Welcome to the forum Riviera Regular,one hopes your travels on this service will be more pleasant in future ,and that you will find plenty of interesting subjects here
Also do please take a while to look around,and when you have done so you will find that our membership includes many who understand a great deal more than most about our Railways and the way in which they operate,Fantasy pure or not ,is not something that we indulge in here, which you would do well to remember in future posts WP.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 16, 2020, 11:26:40 am
what stats does anyone have to put numbers rather than spin on its performance?

There are several sites that list historic data, with ontimetrains.co.uk being my preferred one.  It can be a bit difficult to keep tabs of the sleeper as its running schedule does get altered quite a lot, but the below are ones I've found:

Details over the last three months are here:

Down (MON-FRI):  https://www.ontimetrains.co.uk/journeys/PAD/PNZ/23:45/07:50/GW;dayOfWeekRange=All;dateRange=12W
Down (SUN):  https://www.ontimetrains.co.uk/journeys/PAD/PNZ/23:50/08:49/GW;dayOfWeekRange=All;dateRange=12W

Up (MON-THU):  https://www.ontimetrains.co.uk/journeys/PNZ/PAD/21:45/05:04/GW;dayOfWeekRange=Weekdays;dateRange=12W
Up (FRI):  https://www.ontimetrains.co.uk/journeys/PNZ/PAD/21:45/05:07/GW;dayOfWeekRange=Weekdays;dateRange=12W
Up (SUN):  https://www.ontimetrains.co.uk/journeys/PNZ/PAD/21:15/05:04/GW;dayOfWeekRange=Sundays;dateRange=12W

Overall performance doesn't seem to have been too bad, given it's not as much of a 'time critical' service as others?



Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Celestial on February 16, 2020, 11:53:20 am
Fantasy pure or not ,is not something that we indulge in here, which you would do well to remember in future posts WP.
Is it just me, or is that an unnecessary slap for a new member, especially coming from a moderator?  It would discourage me from ever coming back to the forum, being spoken to like a teacher on my second post.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on February 16, 2020, 12:17:25 pm
Fantasy pure or not ,is not something that we indulge in here, which you would do well to remember in future posts WP.
Is it just me, or is that an unnecessary slap for a new member, especially coming from a moderator?  It would discourage me from ever coming back to the forum, being spoken to like a teacher on my second post.

Tough call ... I looked at the original post.  "but I'm sorry I find your beer barrel explanation of the cause of Thursday's breakdown pure fantasy." ... polite, but took my breath away too when I read it, and WP's answer was in line with that breath being taken away.

I do hope that RivieraRegular is not put off posting; the message from WP is correct in suggesting "hey, have a look around - there are already many answers here", yet in practise it's very hard to find the wood for the trees sometimes.

I have no trouble believing that the entire train was disabled (and replaced by an IET) because it hit a beer barrel. How the beer barrel got in the way of the train, I wouldn't know;  strongest bet - some sort of vandalism, with accident or weather being less likely runners.  None of those likely to be the fault of GWR, but it's their role / part of the franchise to pick up the job of getting customers to final destination station, and to take the flack.  It's usually better, I think, to tell the customer what's happened when a train is capped like this, but I say "usually"; exceptions to the generality because:
*) Don't want to give other people ideas
*) Don't want to scare passenger into needless worry about "will it be safe to go through on the replacement"
*) Don't actually know what's been hit as the incident develops, so couldn't fully inform the customer; it's a fault on the train, but at an early stage was that some sort of mechanical problem on the loco, or it hitting something?

Once upon a time, a long long time ago, if something went wrong with a vehicle in a train / it was damaged, it could be removed from the train and parked up in a siding and the rest of the train continue.  And if it was a locomotive that was disabled, another could be requisitioned from nearby.  Those days are gone - GWR operates 4 x class 57 locomotives suitable for the sleeper, as opposed to BR who operated 512 class 47 locomotives.  When the train sets out from Penzance it's basically on its own until Reading, with fingers crossed that the old locomotive makes it.   Failure along the way ... there is no spare "Thunderbird" rescue locomotive;  working with freight / engineering operators the best GWR can hope / ask for is a tow to Plymouth, Exeter, Taunton or Westbury, with their spare loco at Penzance or Reading rescuing the train during the next day.
 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on February 17, 2020, 07:00:10 am
Last night ... "a day in the life of a sleeper train" ...

Up service - 28 late off Plymouth ("awaiting connections") ... scheduled to run via Taunton and Bristol Temple Meads. Diverted from Exeter via Yeovil, Castle Cary, Westbury and Melksham, resumed scheduled route at Thingley; just 3 minutes late into Reading and on time (05:04) at Paddington.

Down service - scheduled 23:50 off Paddington but did not leave until 01:33 ("awaiting crew").  Ran via Bath and Taunton, About 80 minutes late between Reading and Exeter, on time from there (110 minute stop reduced to 30) and into Plymouth at 06:12 (2 minutes late).  As the empties arrived in Paddington at 21:51 (scheduled 21:12) I suspect that the passengers didn't mind and perhaps didn't even notice the late departure.

For future record - Truro to Penzance closed, engineering works this week.  Cowley Bridge closed on Sunday evening - flooding from Storm Dennis.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on February 17, 2020, 07:37:40 pm
Welcome to Riviera Regular. I’ve used the Sleeper for leisure in the past but not sure I would trust it if I had, say, a job interview to travel for.

It’s true that breakdowns are comparatively rare on the Sleeper, but unfortunately the impact of any breakdown far exceeds that of a daytime train (as I’m sure we all appreciate). Rather like a Premier Inn turfing all its customers out from their beds at 4am and offering them camp beds in the cafe instead.

Can anyone with inside knowledge confirm if those failures that do occur are majorly down to the age of the locomotives? I was wondering idly to myself if a 9 car IET could be redesigned as a sleeper, or perhaps HST power cars used with the existing coaches.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on February 17, 2020, 08:38:53 pm
Seems all UK sleeper services are plagued by locomotive problems.  Ask Caledonian sleeper passengers. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Celestial on February 17, 2020, 09:58:44 pm
I was wondering idly to myself if a 9 car IET could be redesigned as a sleeper
Or even two 5 car sets with one stopping at Plymouth (a bit like the old days when a coach was dropped off), and one going on to Penzance.

Mind you, think of the fun the inevitable night it was short formed.  Come on, cwtch up everyone!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TonyK on February 17, 2020, 11:21:15 pm
As my username suggests I do a round trip on the Night Riviera once every 2-3 weeks all year round, I found this thread while searching to see if its just me or does it really breakdown so often.

Many of the failures you discuss here I was on including the getting towed back to Plymouth by an engineering train last October (by the way the replacement IET definitely did have first class) and this Thursday's failure to leave Plymouth as the breaks were stuck on (this is what we were told).

Welcome indeed to the Forum. The ongoing issues with the sleeper are read by many people on this site who have never ever been on it. Your regular use of the service gives you an exalted status, and I shall watch keenly for updates!

Quote
I am a huge fan of the Riviera when it works and have nothing but praise for the fantastic s
Quote
taff many of whom now recognise me, but the unreliability is becoming worrying to the extent that I often go up to London a day early if I have a meeting I can't miss just in case, which kind of defeats the point of a sleeper train.


The ultimate belt and braces approach!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on February 18, 2020, 10:35:35 am
I remember seeing a La Poste TGV with no windows at Gare du Lyon back in 2003, so there is a precedent for adapting high speed trains for other uses


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: nickswift99 on February 18, 2020, 05:21:43 pm
They stopped running in 2015. There's a good article here https://www.connaissance-du-rail.com/reportages-et-photos/la-fin-des-tgv-postaux/ (apologies it's in French - I've added a google translate version below)

Quote
After more than 30 years of good and loyal service, postal TGVs finally bowed out on Saturday June 27, 2015, ending more than a century and a half of collaboration between the postal administration and the railway.

Postal TGV Paris - Cavaillon. Rame 951. Vinneuf
On June 8, 2015, the 951 train ensures the TGV 6997 Paris - Cavaillon, seen here in Vinneuf, in Yonne. Photo Pierre BAZIN
It was in 1982 that La Poste, attracted by the TGV formula, decided to acquire this type of equipment for its rapid delivery.

Two trains are then ordered.

Composed of two drive units framing eight trailers, each with a large side door on each side, they can take 250 specific containers loaded with mail and parcels.

In fact, five half-trains, numbered 901 to 905, called sections, will be delivered to ensure the reserve.

Assigned to the Paris-Sud-Est depot, they will enter into service from October 1, 1984.

Each day, they will make two round trips between Paris-Charolais and Lyon-Montrochet, where a warehouse has been specially fitted out. One of the two relationships marks a stop at Mâcon-Loché, where a specific platform has also been created on the service connection joining the high-speed line to the conventional line.

Postal TGV. Rame 952 in Marolels-sur-Seine. Train 6997 Paris - Cavaillon
Train 952 in Marolles-sur-Seine, June 16, 2015, with the TGV 6997 Paris - Cavaillon. Photo Pierre BAZIN
On November 7, 1994, a new sorting center was put into service in Cavaillon.

As a result, Lyon-Montrochet was abandoned and the new service now consists of four daily connections from the capital: two to Cavaillon and two to Mâcon.

This requires the use of an additional train obtained by transforming the first class South-East train no. 38, which will become the postal sections no. 906 and 907.

Postal TGV to Crisenoy. Rame 951. TGV 6991 Paris - Mâcon
Passage to Crisenoy of the 951 train with the TGV 6991 Paris - Mâcon. Photo Pierre BAZIN, June 17, 2015
In 2003, the operating numbers of the trains changed according to the following scheme:

- Train 951: drive units 923-001 and 923-006 (ex sections 901 and 906)

- Rame 952: drive units 923-003 and 923-005 (ex-sections 903 and 905)

- Rame 953: drive units 923-004 and 923-007 (ex sections 904 and 907)

- Train 954: power train 923-002 (ex-section 902); half-oar ensuring the reserve.

In 2006, a new livery, with much more visible Post logos, appeared.

At the same time, the service of the Atlantic facade is mentioned. But the idea was quickly abandoned due to the fall in the number of priority letters to be sent, a phenomenon accentuated by the development of electronic messaging and the success of the "green letter", delivered in two days.

Postal TGV to Champdeuil. Rame 953. TGV 6996 Cavaillon - Paris
In the early morning at Champdeuil, on the high-speed Interconnection line, the 953 train goes to Paris with the TGV 6996 from Cavaillon. Photo Pierre BAZIN. June 26, 2015
As the volume of mail transported continues to decrease, the round trip ¨Paris - Cavaillon de jour was eliminated in 2009.

Since then, only three daily rotations remained, one on Cavaillon, two on Mâcon, which enabled postal trains to make average monthly journeys of 17,600 km, a total of approximately 8,500,000 km since their implementation service in 1984.

But the fall in the volumes of mail transported continuing, it was decided to definitively stop the service of postal TGV on Saturday June 27, 2015.

This led to the closure of the Paris-Charolais sorting center, replaced by a new warehouse in Bonneuil-sur-Marne, grouping mail to the entire territory.

In the future, it is planned to send mail by swap bodies, either by conventional freight trains or by trucks, depending on the destinations. However, nothing has yet been decided on the future of rail transport in the area of ​​mail transport.

La Poste would like to resell the trains, but given their special architecture, they are more likely to be scrapped.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: 72c on February 18, 2020, 05:32:15 pm
Does anybody know why the current curtailed Sleeper service commences/terminates at Plymouth rather Truro?   A Truro start/finish would offer a better customer experience perhaps.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on February 18, 2020, 06:08:16 pm
I remember seeing a La Poste TGV with no windows at Gare du Lyon back in 2003, so there is a precedent for adapting high speed trains for other uses

They stopped running in 2015. There's a good article here https://www.connaissance-du-rail.com/reportages-et-photos/la-fin-des-tgv-postaux/ (apologies it's in French - I've added a google translate version below)

Quote
After more than 30 years of good and loyal service, postal TGVs finally bowed out on Saturday June 27, 2015, ending more than a century and a half of collaboration between the postal administration and the railway.

[snip]


Very interesting ...

More about these trains on WikiPedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_TGV_La_Poste).

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/postaltgv.jpg)
Image - Florian Fèvre (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Billy69150) (I have trimmed it), Cretive Commons 4.0 license (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en)




Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: stuving on February 18, 2020, 07:32:11 pm
Very interesting ...

Well, if you say so. A couple of extra points, then:

La Poste did use TPOs, with the last two running to Brittany (until 1995) and Besancon (2001). But by then the amount of urgent overnight letter mail was too small to justify that train, and the bulk was press and pre-sorted. By 2015 that "too small" applied to the TGV routes as well, and most of what they were carrying wasn't needed next day.

So the plan then was for containerisation; these go by road to Bonneuil sur Marne, then share a (slow) train to another similar platforme. How that works now I can't find any mention of - which may be good news, of course.

But the Class 325s are still in use, aren't they? There are regular nightly services between Willesden PRDC and at least Sheildmuir, Warrington, and Gateshead.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: rower40 on March 05, 2020, 03:20:45 pm
I may have just jinxed the Down sleeper for next Wednesday night. I haz orange cardboard for a trip to a signalling briefing in Bodmin.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on March 07, 2020, 09:43:22 am
Separate issues affecting both sleeper services overnight.

The down service left London Paddington nearly three and a half hours late after a fresh loco had to be sent from Reading.   It arrived in Penzance nearly 90 minutes behind time.

Meanwhile the up service was held up after leaving Taunton due to a signal failure and was almost an hour late into London.

Wonder what Ben Fogle made of it?
https://www.instagram.com/p/B9aOzzTHa74/?igshid=ky00zcyslq51 (https://www.instagram.com/p/B9aOzzTHa74/?igshid=ky00zcyslq51)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Marlburian on March 10, 2020, 06:20:51 pm
New YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zglmNaB94AM)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: smokey on March 14, 2020, 01:59:54 pm
Does anybody know why the current curtailed Sleeper service commences/terminates at Plymouth rather Truro?   A Truro start/finish would offer a better customer experience perhaps.

The issue with Truro as a start/finish point for the "Beds" when the Cornish Main is closed beyond Truro.
First the empty Stock of the down sleeper in the morning would have to be Run Round, occupying both up and Down platform lines causing delays to other services before returning to Plymouth for servicing, the same problem arises in the evening when the empty stock arrives to form the Up "Beds"
Now if Platform 4 was still in use at Truro, then the sleeper might be able to run into Truro but shunting the stock would still present a problem.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: SandTEngineer on June 22, 2020, 10:40:56 am
Night Riviera to start running again Thursday and Friday nights only from 25 June 2020, but no sleeper berth accomodation: https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/journey-information/on-board/night-riviera-sleeper

Quote
From 25 June we will start to run an overnight service again on Thursdays and Fridays only, in both directions.

For the first three weeks we won’t be selling cabins, just seats.
After this, we plan to increase the frequency, and start offering cabins, on a gradual basis.

When customers arrive, they will see that the train includes a sleeper carriage and the café. These won’t be used but are there to help keep colleagues up to date with their training. We recommend that you bring drinks and snacks with you.

Services will show in online journey planners as an overnight train, rather than a sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on June 22, 2020, 11:12:16 am
Interesting they are started with seated accommodation only.

Caledonian Sleepers closed their seated coaches early on and have been running a limited service to/from Glasgow/Edinburgh and Inverness with only berths available.

They are planning to increase services in July.

I assume those travelling overnight with GWR will have to wear a face covering for the whole journey.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on June 22, 2020, 12:05:36 pm
A cynic like me would suspect that GWR want to get rid of the sleeper.
It is a franchise requirement and cant be dropped on a whim, but a prolonged closure for safety reasons should reduce patronage and assist in negotiating away any future obligation to provide the service.

Re-opening a "sleeper" service but without sleeping accommodation is no doubt a good start.

Perhaps the survey to prove that it is no longer wanted has already been done.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 22, 2020, 12:26:09 pm
A cynic like me would suspect that GWR want to get rid of the sleeper.
It is a franchise requirement and cant be dropped on a whim, but a prolonged closure for safety reasons should reduce patronage and assist in negotiating away any future obligation to provide the service.

Re-opening a "sleeper" service but without sleeping accommodation is no doubt a good start.

Perhaps the survey to prove that it is no longer wanted has already been done.

You have been predicting the demise of the sleeper for years - I guess the current crisis facing the industry is certainly the best chance of that actually happening.

Incidentally, the DA3 for GWR plans for extra capacity and a dedicated sleeper booking website for the 'Night Riviera'.  That's not to say some DA3 elements won't be practicable now, but it shows, pre-crisis, it was very much in the longer term plan.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: smokey on August 02, 2020, 04:08:46 pm
I doubt the DfT or the Government would want a rerun of the Save our Sleeper campaign.

Sleeper Trains have become very popular in Britain over the past 15 years and even in Europe there is increasing use of sleepers after an initial decline.

Covid will be over someday.

Would have thought GWR would have taken 6 class 43 HST power cars converted the ETS to 850volt for use on the Sleeper service.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 02, 2020, 04:48:04 pm
I doubt the DfT or the Government would want a rerun of the Save our Sleeper campaign.

Sleeper Trains have become very popular in Britain over the past 15 years and even in Europe there is increasing use of sleepers after an initial decline.

Covid will be over someday.

Would have thought GWR would have taken 6 class 43 HST power cars converted the ETS to 850volt for use on the Sleeper service.

The fact that the Night Riviera requires a Government subsidy to operate would perhaps call its popularity into question.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 02, 2020, 05:11:54 pm
The fact that the Night Riviera requires a Government subsidy to operate would perhaps call its popularity into question.

What level of subsidy does it currently receive?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on August 02, 2020, 06:19:46 pm
I doubt the DfT or the Government would want a rerun of the Save our Sleeper campaign.

Sleeper Trains have become very popular in Britain over the past 15 years and even in Europe there is increasing use of sleepers after an initial decline.

Covid will be over someday.

Would have thought GWR would have taken 6 class 43 HST power cars converted the ETS to 850volt for use on the Sleeper service.

The fact that the Night Riviera requires a Government subsidy to operate would perhaps call its popularity into question.

Popular does not always mean profitable.
The sleeper is popular as in regularly well used.
The sleeper is also popular in the more subjective sense that users like it.

It is not however profitable. Many parts of the railway system require subsidy, including the night Riviera.
A sleeper train conveys far fewer passengers per vehicle, or per ton of gross train weight, than a day train.
It requires dedicated rolling stock.
Providing, changing, and laundering of bedding are extra costs.

West country MPs use it. Drunken MPs can stagger aboard Hard working MPs suffering from a stressful week in London can sleep it of and awake sober refreshed for more hard work meeting their constituents.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: stuving on August 02, 2020, 06:40:36 pm
The fact that the Night Riviera requires a Government subsidy to operate would perhaps call its popularity into question.

What level of subsidy does it currently receive?

That won't be a separable figure, will it? It's in the SLC, so has to be run, and the contract doesn't need to set a separate sum of money for it. Whatever revenue gain or loss you ascribe to it (as an accountant) will be an internal matter for GWR. (I'm assuming "current" doesn't mean "in the current emergency".)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 02, 2020, 06:56:58 pm
The fact that the Night Riviera requires a Government subsidy to operate would perhaps call its popularity into question.

What level of subsidy does it currently receive?

That won't be a separable figure, will it?

That's kind of why I asked the question, to find out the source of TG's post.  The most recent mention of a subsidy I can see dates back to 2010, so way too long ago to be considered accurate.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Jamsdad on August 03, 2020, 02:06:22 pm
There is quite a bit of politics around the Night Riviera. FGW tried to get it scrapped a few years ago and there was huge outcry in Cornwall, with a sucessful petition and government backed off. The improved service was strongly supported by Cornwall Council and the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership put money into getting the upgrades to the service.
Its an important service for people in Cornwall, and even though it doesn't make money there would be a mighty row  again if there was any attempt to scrap it.
.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on August 03, 2020, 05:10:54 pm
There is also an additional, almost hidden, operational cost with the sleeper. 

It restricts the amount of time Network Rail has to access the line between Exeter and Penzance for maintenance.  Some sections can use single line working depending on the type of work needed but it means in some cases extra nights are needed rather than completing a job in one possession.   

Clearly in the past when there were newspaper, postal and more freights running it wasn't a cost directly attributable to the sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 12, 2020, 07:19:04 am
Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 will be terminated at Reading.
It will no longer call at London Paddington.
It will be delayed at Chippenham and is expected to be 168 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Has just arrived Reading


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Umberleigh on August 13, 2020, 12:12:43 pm
There is also an additional, almost hidden, operational cost with the sleeper. 

It restricts the amount of time Network Rail has to access the line between Exeter and Penzance for maintenance.  Some sections can use single line working depending on the type of work needed but it means in some cases extra nights are needed rather than completing a job in one possession.   

Clearly in the past when there were newspaper, postal and more freights running it wasn't a cost directly attributable to the sleeper.

To be fair, that’s probably the reason it doesn’t run on Saturday nights into Sunday mornings, when the great majority of overnight work seems to get done (including Weekend blockades)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Celestial on August 17, 2020, 09:44:19 am
The merit of the sleeper is the provision of a proper flat bed in a private room. In which one may change in privacy and sleep in proper bedding.

Any improvisations involving airline seats that sort of convert into not a proper flat bed, would be a significant downgrade. And experiences of both GWR and new rolling stock suggest a lot of extra things to go wrong. Seat wont fold into ersatz bed. Fake bed wont change back into a seat. Gets stuck part way. Privacy screen drops off or gets stuck. GWR forget to supply pillows and blankets. Bookings don't work, or get transferred to a different service. Hitachi sends wrong train.
Train cancelled from Plymouth as wont couple to the other portion.
I've had the pleasure of flat beds with several long haul operators, and they are a delight to travel on overnight. And yes, I have done a sleeper journey in recent years (from London to Edinburgh) as a comparison.

I'm guessing that you probably haven't availed yourself of such a service broadgage, in which case it must be difficult to judge their merits or otherwise. I could equally come up with a list of spurious faults that a sleeper service might have - shower cold, toilet not working, sink blocked, forgotten to supply pillows and blankets, etc, if I wanted to find ways to prove that a service was "downgraded".

If flat beds were able to be utilised on the railways and brought the cost down to something more economic for people then I think it would be an excellent way to try and increase modal shift for longer UK journeys. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case, but I don't think it is because of the quality of the product that could be delivered with flat beds.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on August 17, 2020, 11:54:54 am
Various convertible seat/bed arrangements may work just fine on airlines, but I have no faith in such arrangements working if GWR or Hitachi are involved.
After years of development and several years in service, Hitachi still cant get a pair of DMUs to couple and uncouple reliably and promptly.
GWR still cant reliably operate a very minimal trolley service.

Seats that convert into beds and back sound too complex.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Celestial on August 17, 2020, 12:18:02 pm
Various convertible seat/bed arrangements may work just fine on airlines, but I have no faith in such arrangements working if GWR or Hitachi are involved.
After years of development and several years in service, Hitachi still cant get a pair of DMUs to couple and uncouple reliably and promptly.
GWR still cant reliably operate a very minimal trolley service.

Seats that convert into beds and back sound too complex.
Who operates, and how effectively, such a service is a different matter from the principle of whether flat beds are a downgrade or not. I think Serco's disastrous launch of their new conventional sleeper service, with no GWR or Hitachi in the picture to blame, proves that it's just as easy to screw up normal sleeper services.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 17, 2020, 12:42:33 pm
Any chance the discussions of a completely hypothetical nature about future Night Riviera stock and configurations could be split off of this thread?  A quite innocent initial remark has led to the usual posters following their usual narratives.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Celestial on August 17, 2020, 01:29:31 pm
 
A quite innocent initial remark has led to the usual posters following their usual narratives.
Apologies. My first posts for a couple of weeks and ticked off already. Think I'll go and hibernate again.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on August 17, 2020, 01:54:34 pm
 
A quite innocent initial remark has led to the usual posters following their usual narratives.
Apologies. My first posts for a couple of weeks and ticked off already. Think I'll go and hibernate again.

Please don't hibernate ... more a request to split the topic based on posts of others.  I am deep into other stuff but will look at doing the split later.   And - I admit - I wondered about (and perhaps will) add comment to the split thread.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 17, 2020, 03:12:04 pm
 
A quite innocent initial remark has led to the usual posters following their usual narratives.
Apologies. My first posts for a couple of weeks and ticked off already. Think I'll go and hibernate again.

It wasn't aimed at you, Celestial.  Good idea though - I might consider hibernation myself.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on August 17, 2020, 04:43:24 pm
 
A quite innocent initial remark has led to the usual posters following their usual narratives.
Apologies. My first posts for a couple of weeks and ticked off already. Think I'll go and hibernate again.

It wasn't aimed at you, Celestial.  Good idea though - I might consider hibernation myself.

My note above to Celestial also applies (+++) to yourself, Industry Insider.   ... and I will split off the next generation possibilities for a sleeper from the "Problems" thread. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on August 17, 2020, 05:46:18 pm
My note above to Celestial also applies (+++) to yourself, Industry Insider.   ... and I will split off the next generation possibilities for a sleeper from the "Problems" thread. 

"Sleeper services  - the next generation" at http://www.passenger.chat/23912


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Lee on August 17, 2020, 06:02:25 pm
"Sleeper services  - the next generation" at http://www.passenger.chat/23912

I've just had the latest publicity shots through now, Captain:

(https://i2.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/phantasms9.jpg)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Witham Bobby on September 08, 2020, 12:20:58 pm
Not a problem with the running of The Sleepers, but i was pleased to see that they via the B&H and Somerton both ways last night.

The 4-bells for the 0005 Paddington to Penzance and the 2210 Penzance to Paddington enlivened the night shifts at Witham, now 45+ years ago in my history. 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Witham Bobby on September 08, 2020, 12:41:36 pm
Interesting, also, last night, that both Up and Down Sleepers may have run via the Westbury Avoiding Line and not been turned into the station as timetabled

Interesting to me, at any rate!

(Night of 7th/8th Sept 2020)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on September 08, 2020, 12:42:05 pm
Interesting both services leave earlier these days.  Do they arrive earlier?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Witham Bobby on September 08, 2020, 01:03:18 pm
Interesting both services leave earlier these days.  Do they arrive earlier?

I can't answer that one, although I've probably got a passenger timetable buried deeply somewhere that would confirm it either way.

I'm now wondering if the London departure wasn't 2355, rather than 0005

The very excellent thing about The Sleepers back then was that nine times out of ten it would feature D1000 haulage.  In summer, with the 'box windows open, it was great to hear the Maybach music slowly become louder, as the loco powered up Brewham


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Witham Bobby on September 08, 2020, 01:31:35 pm
Without needing to resort to digging through whatever historic timetables I have, I found this online

https://nick86235.smugmug.com/Timetables/Great-Britain-Passenger/i-FmpZp6g/A

I know it's a Saturday timetable, but I don't think the Saturday times differed much from M-F times

So there were two down Sleepers.  The first ran via Bristol, departing Paddington at 2335 on Friday night (I think this was 2345 during the week, but can't be sure).  Arrived at Plymouth at 0558 and Penzance at 0832

The Second ran vian the B&H, Westbury Avoiding Line and Somerton.  It left Paddington at 0055, and arrived at Plymouth at 0510 (set down only) and 0745 at Penzance.  I think the Plymouth passengers were in coaches that were detached at Plymouth and could stay aboard until a more civilised hour.  The reverse kind of thing happened in the other direction, with coaches available for boarding some time before the Penzance portion arrived.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: sleepy on October 04, 2020, 01:42:36 am
The timetable shown in link doesn't have Sleeping Car symbol shown for both services, perhaps 2345 was seated only ?
 I know in 1980's on Friday nights in Summer a seated only relief ran from Paddington.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Witham Bobby on October 05, 2020, 10:36:58 am
The timetable shown in link doesn't have Sleeping Car symbol shown for both services, perhaps 2345 was seated only ?
 I know in 1980's on Friday nights in Summer a seated only relief ran from Paddington.

By Jove! I think you're right.  The relief you mention is also shown, 2335 from Paddington


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Zoe on October 09, 2020, 12:00:40 pm
The October 1975 Paddington Station Workings book shows the 2345 as having one SLC is the formation which was detached at Exeter along with a GUV (Cars).  I expect this sleeping coach was for the use of Motorail passengers travelling to Exeter.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: smokey on October 17, 2020, 02:47:17 pm
The 1970 Western Region timetable shows 6 sleeper trains leaving London Paddington in 24 hours on Fridays/Saturdays 12/13 June to 4/5 September.

These are

22:55 to Penzance Friday Only (Sleeping Cars for Isles of Scilly passengers ONLY)
23:45 to Penzance (Sleeping Cars and Motorail detatched at Exeter St Davids)
00:50 to Milford Haven (Sleeping Car passengers ONLY)
00:55 to Penzance (Sleeping Car passengers only, Motorail to Plymouth & Penzance
01:25 to Swansea (Sleeper Car Passengers for Cardiff could travel via Swansea upon       payment of a Swansea to Cardiff single Ticket.
21:30 to Milford Haven Saturday Only.

Bit cheeky to state the 21:30 as it's the Daily sleeper to South Wales that ran earlier on Saturdays  ;D ;D

And there was also the 19:25 SX Bristol TM to Newcastle Sleeper.
             


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: PhilWakely on October 17, 2020, 02:54:37 pm
I am surprised nobody has yet mentioned that the Down Friday/Saturday (17-18/10/20) sleeper succumbed at Exeter and had to be rescued by back-to-back HST power cars.

Seen here passing Totnes (https://shed83a.smugmug.com/Passenger/GWR/GWR/2020-GWR/i-frMRtsn/A?fbclid=IwAR2n3VWV8OMufeGP3Zu2zgEy2KenYBav6pPXLM9RTGLSXazONVQjbegs64Y)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on October 17, 2020, 03:00:49 pm
I had heard a rumour that the sleeper was rescued by back to back power cars.

Understand the loco is now at Long Rock (Penzance) receiving attention.

On the subject of back to back power cars and Long Rock - here is another pair spotted there earlier this month  ;D

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/hstlr.jpg)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: MVR S&T on October 17, 2020, 09:12:23 pm
Why not stick a power car on the front and back of the sleeper stock and be done with it!


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on October 17, 2020, 09:14:06 pm
Why not stick a power car on the front and back of the sleeper stock and be done with it!

Rewiring job.   I understand that class 43 are VHS, but sleeper stock is BetaMax.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on October 17, 2020, 10:04:58 pm
Yes I wouldn?t plug my phone in a USB socket on the sleeper if a class 43 was up front! 


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on October 18, 2020, 12:13:45 am
Why not stick a power car on the front and back of the sleeper stock and be done with it!

Rewiring job.   I understand that class 43 are VHS, but sleeper stock is BetaMax.

Use of HST power cars on the sleeper might be worth considering, despite the need for electrical modifications.
They are readily available and should be cheap if otherwise due to be scrapped.
Commonality with the castle sets for ease of maintenance.
Not perhaps a long term solution due to the age of HSTs, but a quick alternative to the unreliable locomotives used at present.

Presumably the sleeper could proceed at reduced performance on one power car in case of a failure ? Better than blocking the line.

It MIGHT even be possible to uprate the power output of the power cars. The MTU engines are capable of higher power output than the Valentas. One limiting factor is the rectifier. Rectifiers are now much much smaller and cheaper than in years gone by.
Another limiting factor is the traction motor ratings, but hotel power does not add to the loading of the traction motors.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 19, 2020, 06:53:25 am
Why not stick a power car on the front and back of the sleeper stock and be done with it!

Rewiring job.   I understand that class 43 are VHS, but sleeper stock is BetaMax.

Use of HST power cars on the sleeper might be worth considering, despite the need for electrical modifications.
They are readily available and should be cheap if otherwise due to be scrapped.
Commonality with the castle sets for ease of maintenance.
Not perhaps a long term solution due to the age of HSTs, but a quick alternative to the unreliable locomotives used at present.

Presumably the sleeper could proceed at reduced performance on one power car in case of a failure ? Better than blocking the line.

It MIGHT even be possible to uprate the power output of the power cars. The MTU engines are capable of higher power output than the Valentas. One limiting factor is the rectifier. Rectifiers are now much much smaller and cheaper than in years gone by.
Another limiting factor is the traction motor ratings, but hotel power does not add to the loading of the traction motors.

Why not just invest in something newer, and more reliable?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: GBM on October 19, 2020, 07:35:43 am
Read on another forum the lead loco failed at Bodmin (last night?) on the up sleeper.
Rear loco pulled back to Lostwithiel, ran around, and then lead the convoy.

Corrected spelling mistook...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bradshaw on October 19, 2020, 08:38:56 am
RTT shows 35 late off Penzance, the 183 at Liskeard, thus supporting your post. Diverted via B&H seemingly and arrived 70 down


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: broadgage on October 19, 2020, 03:54:04 pm


Use of HST power cars on the sleeper might be worth considering, despite the need for electrical modifications.
They are readily available and should be cheap if otherwise due to be scrapped.
Commonality with the castle sets for ease of maintenance.
Not perhaps a long term solution due to the age of HSTs, but a quick alternative to the unreliable locomotives used at present.

Presumably the sleeper could proceed at reduced performance on one power car in case of a failure ? Better than blocking the line.

It MIGHT even be possible to uprate the power output of the power cars. The MTU engines are capable of higher power output than the Valentas. One limiting factor is the rectifier. Rectifiers are now much much smaller and cheaper than in years gone by.
Another limiting factor is the traction motor ratings, but hotel power does not add to the loading of the traction motors.

Why not just invest in something newer, and more reliable?

Two reasons, HST power cars are available now and at modest cost. Something new might take years to design, and then fail to meet expectations regarding reliability.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on October 19, 2020, 04:13:08 pm
Why not just invest in something newer, and more reliable?

Two reasons, HST power cars are available now and at modest cost. Something new might take years to design, and then fail to meet expectations regarding reliability.


May I add a third - "commonality of fleet".  There are perhaps 25 to 30 class 43 power cars in the GW fleet, and adding a handful to that means that there's no need to add holdings of different spare parts and to train up engineers on a new type which - one hopes - only had to be repaired occasionally.

Age (so expected length of life in this new role) is against all the castles, including "Le Chateau de la Belle au Bois Dormant", "Fiona's Castle", "Gournay Court", "Chateau de Chambord ", "Arendelle Castle" etc ... taking the commonality onwards, the logic would be to a next generation IET variant ... which I think I have mentioned before.  Again, commonality of parts, maintenance and driving skills.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: smokey on October 20, 2020, 01:49:58 pm
Commonality of Parts is all well and good, one thing BR never did was put all it's eggs in one basket.

Just how many trains would be cancelled if a serious failure grounded all the Hitachi class 80X fleets under all had been inspected?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on October 20, 2020, 01:57:46 pm
Commonality of Parts is all well and good, one thing BR never did was put all it's eggs in one basket.

Just how many trains would be cancelled if a serious failure grounded all the Hitachi class 80X fleets under all had been inspected?

Indeed ... there is an element of balance needed.  Manufacture of a fleet for - say - 15 years, lifespan 35 to 40 years, and you have a main, well established fleet that's well bedded in, a new fleet going through any teething problems, and a few laggards to keep the enthusiasts interested  ;D .... right across the UK, same fleets giving quantity benefits ...


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: grahame on November 03, 2020, 02:22:08 am
Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 will be terminated at Reading.
It will no longer call at London Paddington.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 03, 2020, 05:58:00 pm
Is anyone actually using the sleeper at the moment?

Would be interesting if anyone knows the loadings.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Surrey 455 on November 03, 2020, 08:22:20 pm
Is anyone actually using the sleeper at the moment?

Would be interesting if anyone knows the loadings.

Will it be running from Thursday night?

If yes, will you be allowed to sleep on it? I am sure nobody actually lives on that train.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 03, 2020, 10:00:05 pm
Is anyone actually using the sleeper at the moment?

Would be interesting if anyone knows the loadings.

Will it be running from Thursday night?

If yes, will you be allowed to sleep on it? I am sure nobody actually lives on that train.

I suppose theoretically you could be using it to get to work the following day?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: Jamsdad on November 04, 2020, 10:26:33 am
There is also a derogation for travelling back to your home base. So yes you can use the sleeper.


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 05, 2020, 07:05:10 am
There is also a derogation for travelling back to your home base. So yes you can use the sleeper.

......would be interesting to know if any/many people are using it?


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: bobm on November 19, 2020, 02:31:04 pm
No sleeper services will run between Sunday 6 and Thursday 10 December because of engineering work.  In addition the down sleeper will terminate at St Erth on the morning of the 5th December.

Also changes to services west of Truro and the St Ives Branch

https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/content-images/travel-updates/planned-engineering/west-cornwall/west-cornwall-and-st-ives-leaflet.pdf?la=en (https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/content-images/travel-updates/planned-engineering/west-cornwall/west-cornwall-and-st-ives-leaflet.pdf?la=en)


Title: Re: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 21, 2020, 06:51:20 am
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:07

20/11/20 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:07 will be terminated at Reading.

It will no longer call at London Paddington.
It has been previously delayed and is now expected to be 160 minutes late from Taunton.
This is due to a fault on this train.



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