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Title: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Lee on January 22, 2008, 11:12:58 From MTLS :
Quote Some of you have asked for more information about how the fare strikes will work, so here goes. The stations known to be partcipating are Yate, Yatton, Bath, Oldfield Park, Frome, Oxford and Bristol. Other stations may also partcipate so be prepared to pick up a strike ticket wherever you are.At each of those stations you can expect to be given a fare strike ticket and explanatory leaflet between around 7:15 and 8:30 am. The leaflet says as follows: FARE STRIKE DAY 28 01 2008 Our aim is to demonstrate to First Great Western that their passengers will not tolerate their expensive and unreliable service any more, and that the government must take back the franchise from FGW. To do this you can ^ 1.Show your FARE STRIKE ticket to staff on the train and at the barriers instead of your proper ticket. (It is your decision whether or not you have a proper ticket and you could be breaking the law if you travel without one!) 2.Avoid confrontations with staff, they are on our side! 3.TV and press will be at many stations on the FGW network. Tell them what you think. 4.Send a FARE STRIKE ticket to your local MP and local paper and tell them that the time has come for FGW to go. Email the CEO of FGW and tell him what you think: andrew /dot/ haines /at/ firstgroup.com HOW DO THE TICKETS WORK? They look similar in design to a standard ticket. If the barriers to the patform are open we suggest you show this ticket rather than a valid ticket to gain entry to the platform. Once on the platform, we suggest that you show your strike ticket when requested to show a ticket by staff on the train or at the exit barriers. It is up to you whether you travel with a valid ticket in your back pocket. The law states that you should have a valid ticket. It is not our intention to defraud FGW even though some might consider they are generating unreasonable profits from us. Our aim is to generate publicty to highlight at a local and national level the failure of FGW to provide an affordable and dependable service. We anticipate that this in turn will make it harder for the Department of Transport to continue to turn a blind eye to the collapse of FGW's franchise. WHAT DO WE WANT? There is no party line. That depends on your politics. Some would say take the franchise back into public ownership, others would say hand it to a company who really can run a train service. Whatever you believe it is important that you make your views known to the media who will be out in force on the 28th and to your local MP. Whatever you do, please be polite and respectful of FGW 's long suffering staff. Regards, The More Train Less Strain Team. Edit to obfurscate email address - Graham Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Shazz on January 22, 2008, 11:17:26 you might want to edit that to andrew [dot] hains [at] etc etc
I'm sure he doesnt want the porn spam etc at work :P Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Lee on January 22, 2008, 11:26:31 you might want to edit that to andrew [dot] hains [at] etc etc I'm sure he doesnt want the porn spam etc at work :P We generally post e-mail addresses, and have not edited them before, although I note your point. I will leave it for grahame to edit if he wishes. Edit ... Shazz, Lee .. I HAVE altered the original. Although I publish my own email address (graham@wellho.net) freely and openly and only get a small proportion of "interesting" spam as a result, I know others are much more concerned / worried about the possibility and I wouldn't want there to be any unanswered suggestion that we have made it easier for spammers to reach anyone who's explicit permission we don't have to publish their email address in plain, even if we would like to bring ourselves and our case to their attention in other ways. In other words - now that you have mentioned th subject Shazz, I'll make the change! These Comment added to the end of this post to avoid pulling the thread off topic Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Tim on January 22, 2008, 11:47:38 Perhaps Vacman or someone else in the know can clarify this but it is my understanding from the Conditions of carriage that a passenger not only has to *possess* a valid ticket but that they have to *show* or *present* it on demand.
Therefore having a valid ticket in your back-pocket and but showing the strike ticket would be illegal according to the conditions of carriage (and possibly an crime under the railway bylaws?) Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Superwang on January 22, 2008, 18:29:04 Just a thought...........If any passenger ..er, sorry customer travels without a valid ticket for the journey, the following applies...
1) The person would be trespassing on railway property 2) The person would commit an offence of defrauding FGW of riding without a ticket 3) The person would be limited to a substancially reduced amount of compensation if they became injured for whatever reason whether they on-board a train or on the station platform area 4) The person would be liable for removal from the train or station if asked by the train manager or the Police If the above conditions apply to deliberate fare dodgers, football hooligans and drunken louts then to be fair it should equally apply to FGW Protesters ;) FGW Management are fully aware of their problems with the train services they run, however, I still believe any useful protest should be aimed directly at the government to urge change by democrate means. I am sure FGW staff will have a giggle at this proposed action, but really speaking PLEASE take your feelings to the top transport government minister...........it may do more good. thanks FGW HST Driver Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Doctor Gideon Ceefax on January 22, 2008, 20:07:04 Perhaps Vacman or someone else in the know can clarify this but it is my understanding from the Conditions of carriage that a passenger not only has to *possess* a valid ticket but that they have to *show* or *present* it on demand. Therefore having a valid ticket in your back-pocket and but showing the strike ticket would be illegal according to the conditions of carriage (and possibly an crime under the railway bylaws?) It would be against the national conditions of carriage not to show a ticket when requested, if you have one in your posession. However my understanding is that if that you are not in possession of a valid ticket or don't show it, but you give an authorised fares collector a correct name and address when requested, then you can dispute the subsequent unpaid fares notice or penalty fare in writing as long as you do it within ten days of receiving it. Of course the company has the right to take you to court, and claim court costs as well as the outstanding fare. If you refuse to give a name or address or a false one, or ignore the penalty fare then you can be prosecuted. If passengers do believe they have a case to 'fare strike', then they should politely give the staff their name and address and then fight their case in the court. Obviously that would require someone who knows the law fully to confirm if this is an option, but I am fairly sure you have a legal right to dispute it. Certainly on occasions where police are called to fare evaders, the first question they tend to ask the guard / ticket collector is 'did you ask for a name and address'. Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: vacman on January 22, 2008, 20:49:17 Yes you are right to an extent, however, if they do give name address etc then they should still be asked to leave the train at the next station.
Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Jim on January 22, 2008, 20:55:11 Yes you are right to an extent, however, if they do give name address etc then they should still be asked to leave the train at the next station. But Vacman my friend, was it not said that some 12 people travelled without a ticket at all in the last fare strike, so it didn't make it a fare strike! Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: vacman on January 22, 2008, 21:07:08 Yes you are right to an extent, however, if they do give name address etc then they should still be asked to leave the train at the next station. But Vacman my friend, was it not said that some 12 people travelled without a ticket at all in the last fare strike, so it didn't make it a fare strike! Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Jim on January 22, 2008, 21:23:51 Yes you are right to an extent, however, if they do give name address etc then they should still be asked to leave the train at the next station. But Vacman my friend, was it not said that some 12 people travelled without a ticket at all in the last fare strike, so it didn't make it a fare strike! Not much of a fare strike then ??? Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: vacman on January 22, 2008, 21:30:29 Yes you are right to an extent, however, if they do give name address etc then they should still be asked to leave the train at the next station. But Vacman my friend, was it not said that some 12 people travelled without a ticket at all in the last fare strike, so it didn't make it a fare strike! Not much of a fare strike then ??? Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Timmer on January 22, 2008, 21:33:13 Not much of a fare strike then ??? I don't expect it will be any different next week either. FGW will wave everyone through the barriers like they did last year giving people who support MTLS their chance to make their protest in front of the media with normal service resumed for the journey home in the evening and that will be that. No one will be had for not having a ticket even though I suspect some will use the all the goings on to try it on and save a few quid that day which they won't as they will have to have a ticket to get home in the evening as the barriers will be closed again.Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Jim on January 22, 2008, 21:50:52 Not much of a fare strike then ??? I don't expect it will be any different next week either. FGW will wave everyone through the barriers like they did last year giving people who support MTLS their chance to make their protest in front of the media with normal service resumed for the journey home in the evening and that will be that. No one will be had for not having a ticket even though I suspect some will use the all the goings on to try it on and save a few quid that day which they won't as they will have to have a ticket to get home in the evening as the barriers will be closed again.Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Tickets Please on January 23, 2008, 08:12:38 Regulation of the Railways Act 1889 says......
5. Penalty for avoiding payment of fare. ^ (1) Every passenger by a railway shall, on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, either produce, and if so requested deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or pay his fare from the place whence he started, or give the officer or servant his name and address; and in case of default shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F4 level 1 on the standard scale] [ F5 [ F6 level 2 on the standard scale]]. (2) If a passenger having failed either to produce, or if requested to deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or to pay his fare, refuses [F7 or fails] on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, to give his name and address, any officer of the company or . . . F8 may detain him until he can be conveniently brought before some justice or otherwise discharged by due course of law. (3) If any person^ (a)Travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or (b)Having paid his fare for a certain distance, knowingly and wilfully proceeds by train beyond that distance without previously paying the additional fare for the additional distance, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or (c)Having failed to pay his fare, gives in reply to a request by an officer of a railway company a false name or address, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F9 level 2 on the standard scale] [ F5 [ F10 level 3 on the standard scale]], or, in the case of a second or subsequent offence, either to a fine not exceeding [F9 level 2 on the standard scale] [ F5 [ F10 level 3 on the standard scale]], or in the discretion of the court to imprisonment for a term not exceeding [F11 three months]. (4) The liability of an offender to punishment under this section shall not prejudice the recovery of any fare payable by him. [F12 (5) In this section^ (a)^railway company^ includes an operator of a train, and (b)^operator^, in relation to a train, means the person having the management of that train for the time being.] Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: vacman on January 23, 2008, 14:48:03 I think you've hit the nail on the head there! I noticed that someone said about "people power" where if an inspector picks up one person then the whole carriage will join in, well, what if the driver decides to join in and says "this train aint goin nowhere unless you pay up or get off" and I know a few drivers that will do it!!
Title: Re: Fare Strike - The Official MTLS View Post by: Lee on January 24, 2008, 12:44:02 An article on the Frome part of the Fare Strike (link below.)
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