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Journey by Journey => Bristol (WECA) Commuters => Topic started by: JayMac on January 09, 2015, 20:43:36



Title: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: JayMac on January 09, 2015, 20:43:36
From the Bristol Post (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristol-rail-commuters-blast-crowded-trains/story-25828855-detail/story.html):

Quote
'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this': Bristol rail commuters blast crowded trains

THESE pictures show the awful conditions suffered by hundreds of rail commuters on a daily basis travelling in and out of Bristol.

(http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276268/Article/images/25828855/9298133-large.jpg)
(http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276268/Article/images/25828855/9298129-large.jpg)
(http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276268/Article/images/25828855/9298131-large.jpg)

With rarely a hope of getting a seat, many workers on the evening Bristol Temple Meads to Cardiff Central service are resigned to the fact that they will be packed onto a train that is standing room only, nose to nose with other commuters.

But being squashed onto a train like a sardine in a can is not just a one-off experience for people on this train ^ it is one repeated, sometimes on a twice-daily basis, for many commuters coming in and out of Bristol on local trains from many different stations.

Passengers from Bath, Weston-super- Mare, Parkway ^ and many more ^ all have similar experiences of overcrowding. And now with commuters again being asked to pay even more for tickets, many are asking why train companies seem to be falling below the mark with the service they provide.

One of those fed up with his daily commute ^ and who took these pictures ^ is Paul Jenkins, 34, from Patchway.

Mr Jenkins, a bank worker, gets the 5.21pm service from Bristol Temple Meads to Cardiff Central, to return from his job in the city centre to Patchway.

This week he made an official complaint to First Great Western because of the awful conditions he has been forced to suffer on this service.

The pictures shown here were taken on his journey home on Tuesday, when only two coaches turned up, instead of the usual three. He says that hundreds of passengers waiting on the platform were forced to crowd onto the train ^ with a number being left on the platform.

Mr Jenkins says a member of staff made a public address, saying he did not know where the usual third coach was and asked people to "squeeze up".

Rather than being a one-off, he claims this is a regular occurrence, with passengers waiting on the platform unsure of what will arrive and whether they will be able to get home.

Mr Jenkins told the Bristol Post: "With train ticket prices rising year on year and commuter numbers ever growing, train operators should be adapting and ensuring their customers are provided with a certain level of service.

"It is my opinion that First Great Western are falling way below the mark whilst their profits soar. All I ask as a commuter and customer is to be treated with a degree of respect and decency and to be able to at least stand without somebody else standing on my shoes. I'm sure cattle would not be allowed or expected to be transported in such conditions. Luckily for me I live in Patchway and don't have to endure the conditions for long but many commuters from Cardiff travel to Bristol for work. These people pump lots of money into Bristol's economy and pay good money for train tickets only to be treated so badly."

Sarah Harrison, 25, from Cardiff, has been using the line to commute this week.

She said: "On Tuesday it was like people were sardines, they were really packed in. I had to yell at someone to move and get on the train."

Some travellers were resigned to the overcrowding and viewed it as an inescapable part of commuting.

Felix Ritchie, who works at UWE, usually gets on the train to Cardiff at Patchway. He said: "I try to avoid the train that arrives from Temple Meads around 5.30pm that only has two coaches. I think a few more coaches would make life more bearable for everyone."

A First Great Western spokesman told the Post that there was a national shortage of rolling stock and that the company was leasing as much as is available.

He said: "The Government has procured ^4.5 billion worth of new rolling stock in the Intercity Express Programme (IEP) and we can expect to see the first new IEP trains on our network by the summer of 2017, which will have an positive impact for those travelling between Bristol and Cardiff and beyond.

"The first train left Japan yesterday and is due to arrive in the UK for testing in March. We are very much a victim of our own success, which has seen significant increases in demand for train travel over the last ten years. Despite the lack of availability of suitable additional trains in the UK, we have worked hard to secure additional capacity. Working with the DfT, we are converting first-class carriages to add an additional standard carriage on each high speed train (HST) service. Once complete (summer 2015) this will add 3,000 standard seats, nearly 16 per cent more capacity in the morning peak into and out of London Paddington.

"We recognise there is still much to do and we are working with the DfT to secure further service improvements ^ this includes working with Network Rail and Bristol City Council on the Metro West project, which will deliver direct improvements to suburban stopping services."

Addressing the specific problems raised by passengers using the 5.21pm Bristol to Cardiff service, the spokesman said that in spring last year the service was increased from two carriages to three. He said: "In the last eight weeks the service has been short-formed a total of five times. Once to provide additional capacity for a football event; once because of overrunning Network Rail engineering work which caused displaced rolling stock, and the other three because of rolling stock faults across the network."

This article was also the cover story for the print edition of the Bristol Post on Friday January 9th 2015.


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: trainer on January 09, 2015, 22:37:23
It's the Post's week to be 'shocked' by railway stories it seems. The other day (if I read the A boards and headlines correctly) it was banging on about the difference in fares from Bristol to the North compared with from more heavily-subsidised Wales. Overcrowding and complaints about high fares are hardly news, but it's good to share the outrage at life around a bit. ::)


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 10, 2015, 09:53:30
It's the Post's week to be 'shocked' by railway stories it seems. The other day (if I read the A boards and headlines correctly) it was banging on about the difference in fares from Bristol to the North compared with from more heavily-subsidised Wales. Overcrowding and complaints about high fares are hardly news, but it's good to share the outrage at life around a bit. ::)

I think what people are most "shocked" by is the blase attitude of the rail industry to what are unacceptable and dangerous levels of extreme overcrowding throughout the network on a daily basis, which no-one at any level really seems that bothered about addressing.


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: phile on January 10, 2015, 11:06:12
It all comes down to DaFT Bean Counting and lengthy processes to accomplish anything.   Also, they keep saying there will be more trains available in 20XX due to electrification or any other cascades when the trains are required now.    This overcrowding situation has been worsening over the years as passenger numbers have grown.  In other businesses they work On Demand and Supply but not in the Rail industry.


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: Bob_Blakey on January 10, 2015, 11:48:06
The Bristol Post is of course quite correct - cattle never get a seat under any circumstances.  ;D


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: 4064ReadingAbbey on January 10, 2015, 12:21:16

I think what people are most "shocked" by is the blase attitude of the rail industry to what are unacceptable and dangerous levels of extreme overcrowding throughout the network on a daily basis, which no-one at any level really seems that bothered about addressing.

In what sense is overcrowding 'dangerous'? Do all UndergrounD travellers get a seat?

Standing might be 'uncomfortable' but that's as far as it goes.

The Bristol Post is of course quite correct - cattle never get a seat under any circumstances.  ;D

And as Ian Walmsley pointed out in a recent edition of Modern Railways, passengers tend not to be slaughtered at the end of the journey...


(PS, when was the last time anyone saw cattle being moved by train?)


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: Red Squirrel on January 10, 2015, 12:23:53
It all comes down to DaFT Bean Counting and lengthy processes to accomplish anything.   Also, they keep saying there will be more trains available in 20XX due to electrification or any other cascades when the trains are required now.    This overcrowding situation has been worsening over the years as passenger numbers have grown.  In other businesses they work On Demand and Supply but not in the Rail industry.

Now of course if only the railway was to be renationalised, then they'd be able to set up a subcommittee reporting to the commons committee into the restructuring of transport, which could commission a report that would recommend solutions to be implemented just after the next election.

Everything would be sorted out in no time.

Well, in hardly any time.

Geologically speaking.


...passengers tend not to be slaughtered at the end of the journey...


...you should have seen me last time I went to Bath. By God I had a thick head the next day



Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: stuving on January 10, 2015, 12:29:11
Isn't the choice of words a bit unrealistic?
Quote
'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this'
The cattle don't have a lot of choice. So that should be:
'They wouldn't let people force cattle to travel like this'
Quote
This week he made an official complaint to First Great Western because of the awful conditions he has been forced to suffer on this service.
Now I'm pretty sure he chose to board that train when it was full. Some people already on board could make that complaint, though. In both cases the only immediate action FGW could have taken is to prevent him and many others boarding. So the re-write is:
"... the awful conditions he has been allowed to suffer on this service", or in his case: "... the awful conditions he and other people have been allowed to suffer on this service due to his being allowed to choose to board it."

I suspect he'd still complain about that, though.


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: Super Guard on January 10, 2015, 17:55:03
It's the Post's week to be 'shocked' by railway stories it seems. The other day (if I read the A boards and headlines correctly) it was banging on about the difference in fares from Bristol to the North compared with from more heavily-subsidised Wales. Overcrowding and complaints about high fares are hardly news, but it's good to share the outrage at life around a bit. ::)

I think what people are most "shocked" by is the blase attitude of the rail industry to what are unacceptable and dangerous levels of extreme overcrowding throughout the network on a daily basis, which no-one at any level really seems that bothered about addressing.

Ridiculous.  The industry cares, and new rolling stock is coming which will benefit the whole of GW land, as you well know.  It of course is not ideal in the short term, but the rolling stock (at present) is not in existence.


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: phile on January 10, 2015, 19:55:01
Many people raise the safety issue in overcrowded trains suggesting it shouldn't be allowed.   There is no legislation on the subject and I don't think any proposal to introduce would not be welcomed by TOCs who are happy to just cram them in.


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: LiskeardRich on January 10, 2015, 20:28:26
If I thought it was unsafe I wouldn't board.

However I would imagine standing tightly compact is safer than standing with loads of space. In say an emergency stop, if there is loads of space around you, you'd get thrown about, but if tightly compact there is nowhere to be thrown about.


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: JayMac on January 10, 2015, 20:39:45
The Bristol Post is of course quite correct - cattle never get a seat under any circumstances.  ;D

Although not on public transport, this one has managed to bag a seat:

(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/cravipat/cows/CitizenKow.jpg)


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 10, 2015, 20:42:58
If I thought it was unsafe I wouldn't board.

However I would imagine standing tightly compact is safer than standing with loads of space. In say an emergency stop, if there is loads of space around you, you'd get thrown about, but if tightly compact there is nowhere to be thrown about.

....and if there's a fire or need for swift evacuation involving a train that is so overcrowded and packed that people can't move to the exits quickly enough?


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: johnneyw on January 10, 2015, 21:39:33
My rush hour journeys to Bath or my other ones on the Severn Beach Line can be very overcrowded.... just as madly dangerous as the London Tube journeys as when I was young and handsome!


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: JayMac on January 10, 2015, 22:00:03
If I thought it was unsafe I wouldn't board.

However I would imagine standing tightly compact is safer than standing with loads of space. In say an emergency stop, if there is loads of space around you, you'd get thrown about, but if tightly compact there is nowhere to be thrown about.

....and if there's a fire or need for swift evacuation involving a train that is so overcrowded and packed that people can't move to the exits quickly enough?

Good point. It's often forgotten by those who say overcrowding is safer in an incident with a train, that not all potential incidents are ones involving rapid deceleration. Fire and/or smoke in a confined space are very dangerous when people are trying to escape quickly.


Title: Re: 'They wouldn't let cattle travel like this' (Bristol Post)
Post by: chrisr_75 on January 11, 2015, 10:41:42
If I thought it was unsafe I wouldn't board.

However I would imagine standing tightly compact is safer than standing with loads of space. In say an emergency stop, if there is loads of space around you, you'd get thrown about, but if tightly compact there is nowhere to be thrown about.

....and if there's a fire or need for swift evacuation involving a train that is so overcrowded and packed that people can't move to the exits quickly enough?

Good point. It's often forgotten by those who say overcrowding is safer in an incident with a train, that not all potential incidents are ones involving rapid deceleration. Fire and/or smoke in a confined space are very dangerous when people are trying to escape quickly.

And a relatively light impact could cause quite a serious crush of people flung in the direction of travel on a packed train, whereas if everyone was seated it probably wouldn't be an issue.

I shudder to think of the mess if there was a high speed collision/derailment on one of these heavily overcrowded services.

Re: the London Underground, the trains are designed with standing in mind and thus have many more grab handles and such like for standees to steady & secure themselves and much larger open areas throughout the vehicles to allow circulation space for people leaving/joining the train & standing. Train speeds are, in general, very much lower than mainline trains, so it is a very different environment overall.



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