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Title: RoSCo changes hands Post by: grahame on January 20, 2015, 12:54:54 Update - January 14th, 2022 - "On This Day" , 7 years ago, a major change of ownership of the trains on Great Britain's Railways. I have followed up ((here)) (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15239.msg317103#msg317103) at the end of this thread.
International Business Times http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-train-firm-eversholt-sold-hong-kongs-cki-2-5bn-1484279? Quote UK train firm Eversholt sold to Hong Kong's CKI for ^2.5bn Hong Kong billionaire Li Ka-shing is behind CK Investments (CKI). Eversholt Rail owns approximately 28% of the UK's passenger train fleet and had been under the consortium's ownership since 2010, according to the statement. Who owns the other 72% these days? Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: ChrisB on January 20, 2015, 13:00:34 Ka-shing, or Ka-Ching? :-)
Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: paul7575 on January 20, 2015, 13:22:38 Who owns the other 72% these days? Angel Trains about 30%: "In August 2008 Angel Trains was acquired by a consortium of investors from Australia, Canada, Luxembourg and the UK." Porterbrook about 30%: "...a global investment consortium comprised of Alberta Investment Management Corporation (^AIMCo^), Allianz Capital Partners (^ACP^) on behalf of certain insurance companies of the Allianz Group, EDF Invest and Hastings Funds Management (^Hastings^) (together the ^Consortium^)" Also a mini-rosco called Voyager leasing owns the relevant fleet. Basically, despite changing ownership a few times, the three main Roscos have about 30% each and that has been fairly consistent over a 20 year period. Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: LiskeardRich on January 20, 2015, 23:38:21 And doesn't Fgw own some of its fleet to make up a small percentage?
Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: ChrisB on January 21, 2015, 08:41:23 Five (?) HSTs I think
Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: Rhydgaled on January 21, 2015, 09:05:57 And doesn't Fgw own some of its fleet to make up a small percentage? Not FirstGW itself but parent company First Group I believe. I think the only TOC that has ever actually owned stock under the actual operating company was ATW's mrk2 stock, most of which hardly saw any use before they finally sold them all to one of the charter train firms. Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: grahame on January 21, 2015, 09:16:06 And doesn't Fgw own some of its fleet to make up a small percentage? Not FirstGW itself but parent company First Group I believe. I think the only TOC that has ever actually owned stock under the actual operating company was ATW's mrk2 stock, most of which hardly saw any use before they finally sold them all to one of the charter train firms. I think South West Trains own the units which operate on the Island Line. And there's also another (parent company, though?) setup with Grand Central and the HSTs they run? Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: ChrisB on January 21, 2015, 09:26:39 And Chiltern and their Mk3's....
Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: JayMac on January 21, 2015, 12:01:09 The three investment funds that bought Eversholt in 2010, 3i, Morgan Stanley, Star Capital, have realised a huge profit on their purchase. With debt restructuring it comes in at around ^700 million. They picked up an absolute bargain when HSBC were forced by HMG to have a fire sale due to the banking crisis. Just think what lovely shiny new rolling stock that ^700 million could have bought. But then the investment funds were only out to make a quick buck. Never any intention on their part of a ling term strategy to invest and remain in charge. Trebles all round. ::) :(
Lets just hope the new owner has a long term plan for the business. With his links to China we might finally see some competitively priced rolling stock heading to the UK. Hopefully not procured in the same way as IEP was. Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: grahame on January 21, 2015, 13:14:59 The ASLEF view - they make the profit on the deal just ^358 million !!!
http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/141986/trains_should_be_assets_not_commodities/ Quote It was revealed yesterday that Eversholt Rail, one of the three rolling stock companies which owns around 28% of the UK^s fleet of passenger trains has been sold to a Hong Kong based company CK Investments for ^2.5 billion. CK Investments currently controls Northumbrian Water and mobile phone network Three. 3i Infrastructure who currently own Eversholt Rail along with investors Morgan Stanley and STAR Capital stand to make around ^358 million from the deal. ASLEF General Secretary Mick Whelan said ^the news that Eversholt Rail is to be sold by one group of investors to another group of investors is a brutal reminder that the trains in Britain^s privatised railways are commodities not assets. CK Investments see an investment opportunity while millions of passengers across the UK rail network have had to endure rolling stock which is, on average, 40 years old.^ Mick added ^The Public Accounts Committee told us last week that the government has no long term strategy for the future of the rail industry. The UK rolling stock market is the greatest failure of rail privatisation and the sale of Eversholt Rail to yet another international investor who will profit from the British public purse demonstrates this scandalous situation is alive and well.^ The "40 years average age" surprises me - I would have gone for more like 20 years, though I know the figure's much higher in the FGW area - http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN03146.pdf backs me up Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: ChrisB on January 21, 2015, 13:20:19 Mick talking out of his a**e again
Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: JayMac on January 21, 2015, 15:11:44 Along with the ^358m profit, the investment funds also benefitted from the debt restructuring to the tune of ^300 million. That's if I read The Times right this morning. The Times did get their millions and billions mixed up though. Saying The investment funds had paid HSBC ^2.1 million.
Title: Asia's richest man Li Ka-shing buys Eversholt Rail for ^2.5bn Post by: a-driver on January 21, 2015, 19:03:12 If you want to be make serious money in the railway industry you need to be in the business of leasing trains. Remember the assets were bought for ^518m in 1996 from the DfT.
http://www.cityam.com/207520/hong-kong-billionaire-li-ka-shing-buys-eversholt-rail-25bn Title: Re: Asia's richest man Li Ka-shing buys Eversholt Rail for ^2.5bn Post by: Red Squirrel on January 21, 2015, 19:31:08 That looks like about 8% yield over 19 years, which isn't too bad but they could have done better investing in property...
Title: Re: Asia's richest man Li Ka-shing buys Eversholt Rail for ^2.5bn Post by: 4064ReadingAbbey on January 21, 2015, 20:44:30 Mods,
I would think this belongs in the 'RoSCo changes hands' thread... ...to avoid confusion! Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: 4064ReadingAbbey on January 21, 2015, 21:01:21 The three investment funds that bought Eversholt in 2010, 3i, Morgan Stanley, Star Capital, have realised a huge profit on their purchase. With debt restructuring it comes in at around ^700 million. They picked up an absolute bargain when HSBC were forced by HMG to have a fire sale due to the banking crisis. Just think what lovely shiny new rolling stock that ^700 million could have bought. But then the investment funds were only out to make a quick buck. Never any intention on their part of a ling term strategy to invest and remain in charge. Trebles all round. ::) :( Lets just hope the new owner has a long term plan for the business. With his links to China we might finally see some competitively priced rolling stock heading to the UK. Hopefully not procured in the same way as IEP was. I don't understand why you are getting so hot under the collar. Investment funds are in business to make money and if HSBC screwed up their business then you can't blame the investment funds for that. If they hadn't bought the business then what do you think would have happened to it? In all likelihood it would have been dismembered and sold off piecemeal. If this were to be the case then the ^700 million would have been virtual money. The ^700 million would _never_ have bought any trains - unless the income from these trains covered at least the opportunity cost of the investment. Businesses are bought and sold on the basis of their future projects - not what has happened in the past. That is history. Mr Li obviously thinks that the business has a future - possibly also in other markets - and is therefore worth what has been paid for it. As for Mr Li's long term plans - well, he is 86 and his successors may well have different ideas. Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: ChrisB on January 21, 2015, 21:24:39 Indeed...if there hadn't been a sale, there wouldn't have been any profit realised and no '^700million', would there?
Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: brizzlechris on January 23, 2015, 11:15:16 Looks like Li Ka-shing might be on a bit of a spending spree...
Quote Asia's richest person Li Ka-shing is in talks to buy Britain's second-largest mobile provider O2 for up to ^10.25bn ($15.4bn) from Spain's Telefonica. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30946005 Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: ChrisB on January 23, 2015, 11:48:35 He owns Hutchison Whampoa....owners of the "3" network, and ex_Mercury Telecoms. Remember Rabbit?
Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: stuving on January 23, 2015, 11:53:09 Looks like Li Ka-shing might be on a bit of a spending spree... He has also just announced a plan to rejig the shareholding structure of the whole of his (very large) group. Allegedly to make it less opaque, but perhaps also to shift the more of the group outside China's influence. Title: Re: RoSCo changes hands Post by: 4064ReadingAbbey on January 23, 2015, 15:18:43 He owns Hutchison Whampoa....owners of the "3" network, and ex_Mercury Telecoms. Remember Rabbit? Hutchison Whampoa owned Orange when I contracted for them in the mid-nineties. They used a largish distribution warehouse somewhere near Banbury that I used to visit and then there was lots of disused Rabbit transmitters and other kit all boxed up.Mr Li visited from time to time. A quiet dapper man and very polite to all those around. Title: OTD - 15 January (2015) - Eversholt RoSCo changes hands Post by: grahame on January 14, 2022, 21:12:30 Read about RoSCos - ((here)) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Great_Britain#Train_leasing_services)
Three Rolling Stock Companies own the majority of trains running on the GB Network (and have done since the trains were sold off in privatisation some 28 years ago: Angel Trains - https://angeltrains.co.uk Eversholt - https://eversholtrail.co.uk/about-us/ Porterbrook - https://www.porterbrook.co.uk There are some other owners around too who lease trains long term: QW Rail Leasing Macquarie European Rail Beacon Rail UK Rail Leasing Rock Rail Limited And some "spot hire" operators who hire out trains for short periods: MiddlePeak Railways GL Railease Harry Needle Railroad Company Riviera Trains West Coast Railways Eastern Rail Services This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |