Great Western Coffee Shop

Here^s a bit of praise for FGW.

The 1718 Padd ^ Oxford is a 180 with first stop Maidenhead.  It is usually ridiculously overcrowded with passengers standing throughout including the First Class.  Last night, as the train was boarding at Padd, there was a Ticket Inspector in the London end vestibule of the First Class coach checking tickets.  Passengers without First Class tickets or who claimed they wished to walk through to the Standard Class coach at the front were told to get off and walk down the platform.

The result?  No Standard Class passengers sitting or standing in the First Class, and the trolley could operate immediately (normally it can^t move until after Maidenhead).

Well done to this particular individual who apparently fulfilled this task without upsetting anybody.  And when Mrs GTBE (who is, ^ er, ^ a pensioner) got home she was still smiling after the Inspector, having checked her ticket, said ^Thank you Miss^!

edited for clarity

.............not sure the Standard class passengers would be quite so grateful!  ;D

Which, on a 180, they have already done to reach 1st class, so walking a tad further is not really complainable about.
The rear coaches on an HST are 1st class, so its the first coaches reached....easier to argue if one is short of time before departure....

Good on the inspector, I say.

Which is the reason I avoid this service like the proverbial, even though it forms a semi-fast direct to my station.  Having paid a premium for the pleasure of 1st, on this train I am not guaranteed a seat, let alone any 'pleasure'.

I rather take the 1715 to Carmarthen and change into it at Reading - even then, unless there is a certain TM in charge, 1st is usually 'over filled' to at least Pangbourne.

One could assume that moving standard class passengers from the first class HST vestibules is likely to be easier when the train is still stationary at Paddington, as arguing with the TM/Inspector means the train is unlikely to move and there is still support from other colleagues to remove such customers from the train.

One could assume once a train is on the move, passengers know they are en-route and that no TM is going to "call the police" or stop the train to eject such passengers.

In such circumstances doens't the TM just need to get his notebook out and issue a ticket for travelling with a valid ticket for that accommodation?  Shouldn't need to eject anyone - just enforce the rules.

I have moved/attempted to move many many passengers out of first class vestibules between Reading and Paddington in my time, and have been called all manor of abusive terms by sober, smartly presented commuters.  Just because you see passengers stood there, doesn't mean the TM has made no effort to move them.  Of course some moan, are rude and move, some will continue to refuse.

I assume the notebook you refer to is an Unpaid Fares Notice.  This requires a valid name and address or the TOC cannot enforce the fare.  The reality is someone who is not prepared to follow the laid down rules and refuses to move, is not going to offer their name and address, or offers fake details.

On my journey into London this morning (26/2/2015) I caught a service from Reading which allowed me to change at Ealing Broadway so that I would catch the tube.

When I left the train at Ealing Broadway there was a significant queue waiting to cross to the tube platforms. It appears FGW had created a temporary barrier and had several staff doing random ticket checks.

There seemed to be a lot of form filling going on by the staff who also seemed to be on the phone. I'm guessing the phone calls were an attempt to validate identity checks.

Some of the staff had what appeared to be Oyster card readers - I'm sure someone else can explain the logic of this.

In summary well done FGW - on behalf of those of us who buy tickets

To check that those using them had indeed touched in where they should have done. PF if they hadn't.

There was also notable disquiet from some passengers as the 07.28 arrival from Worcester arrived at Paddington  into Platform 2 as opposed to its traditional Platform 8 (no barriers).

To expand a little, Oyster cards are valid as far as West Drayton, with the (obvious?) exception of Heathrow Express and only as far as Hayes & Harlington on Heathrow Connect, so the revenue inspectors would need Oyster card readers if they were checking tickets at Ealing Broadway.

thanks for all of the helpful comments here. I'm conscious that this thread is in the public area so appreciate it not turning into a wiki on how to avoid fares.

Having said that I would be curious to know how many customers were required to buy a ticket when the Worcester train arrived on p2

As would I.....

It's always puzzled me a little bit why several of the platforms at Paddington have remained without ticket barriers - anyone know the reason? Platform 1 is obvious to maintain access to the retail outlets, but 8/9 are a bit of an anomaly...is it something to do with the now defunct taxi rank?

Something to do with public rights of way I believe.

Edited to fix quotes - bobm

yes, there's a right of way from the canalside to the front of the station - but they ought to, with a tad of application, be able to re-route it across the bridge & down platform 1 and across the concourse - especially as there's the lifts available that way now to make it fully accessible

They could install glass partitions along the length of P1 and P8/P9 with ticket barriers at the end as they have at Victoria (to segregate P2 from the retail outlets their)

I would have thought that they could reroute the right of way down past the new taxi rank, down the new stairs/lifts, and along the open part of platform 12.  It would be shorter than a deviation via platform 1. The Platform 8/9 right of way could then be extinguished.

1A02 from BTM first thing in the morning (and my regular commute) is booked into platform 9 and I do wonder how much of a revenue leak that allows from those boarding at Slough.  I wish there were more on-board checks on that final leg of the journey. The train managers appear reluctant to engage, preferring to check on the penultimate leg from Reading.

Again without wishing to add to the fare avoidance wiki site I have often mentioned at Meet the Manager sessions my 'free' journey back to Maidenhead in the evening which is platform 1 to Maidenhead Platform 1.  Both have no barriers.

Better still reroute it through the taxi rank and in by the Bakerloo line entrance. 

There were yellow barriers and full tickets checks at Reading yesterday morning ~07:30 on the access to down to P9/10 on both sides of the bridge.
To catch people coming into the station via un barriered local routes ?

Victoria had a similar problem on platform 2, and, to a lesser extent, platform 7. Both are now ensconced within barriers, albeit somewhat unsightly, but secure.




Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

Thanks all for the explanation regards the non-barriered platforms at PAD, something that has long puzzled me is now solved!




Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

Agreed....maybe they'll get around to it...subject to Westminster Council minnions though, no doubt.

There are some excellent TMs that enforce the rules of First Class to the letter. Recently on the 16:30 PAD - TAU we had a TM who checked tickets the moment that train left Paddington. His approach was different in the following:

"Would you like to upgrade sir?"

Which seemed a more diplomatic way to go about it. Some paid the upgrade, some moved. First Class was extremely well loaded with perhaps only 4 or 5 seats spare. In Coach K we had just 1 seat spare.

More recently I boarded a train (which I shan't list to protect the staff and the guilty...) and discovered First Class completely full. It was one of those insidious sets with just 1 First Class Coach... So I just perched myself in the vestibule and the TM then saw and recognised me and said:

TM: "I'll go kick'em out then as it's you..."
Me: "What do you mean?!"
TM: "We've been rammed since <redacted> so I got like 30 noobs* down here..."
Me: "Uh oh..."

Que the booting of a large handful of middle age folk... I could do nothing but look at the floor :-X :'( :-[

*noobs is a derogatory term for new players who doesn't know what they're doing - computer gamer talk

.............and that attitude to customers, my friends, may go some way to explain FGW's woeful rating for customer service.

Which customers though...I suspect the Trout might be quite keen to give them a good score looking after him

But the first TM the Trout described would also have looked after him just as well... but would have been more customer orientated to those who he moved from 1st class and would have left the Trout feeling better rather than looking at the floor. 

I guess I should clarify the case there... :-[

The second TM handled the moving of passengers just as well as the first. This was a 'private' conversation that took place in the vestibule. Both me and this TM play the same computer game on the same server; hence their somewhat casual approach to our conversation.

Their way of handling it was - "I'm sorry folks, but I've got First Class ticket holders standing now, I'm going to have to ask you to upgrade or move down to standard now I'm afraid. There are now plenty of seats in Coach B"

A couple did remain and paid to upgrade. Those who moved seemed grateful to be able to sit down on what I'm told was a crushingly overcrowded train. But seemed happy enough that seats were now available in the Country end.

Nevertheless considering how I was dressed (tracksuit & overalls covered in paint and mud - long story!) I just felt socially awkward in that situation. That however was probably an Autistic thing vs. Normal Behavior.

Were you trying to be a rainbow trout?  :P ::) ;D

Sounds like normal behaviour to me. 

For me perhaps yes ;D

Not a rainbow trout... Grumpy-Oyster-Trout...

(http://i.imgur.com/Khr8DXM.jpg)

I had spent the day in service tunnels installing a couple Fibre Optic Cables for a "for fun" project I've been working with. I'm the only one who doesn't mind going in the tunnels as the others are too whimpish due to spiders ::) 8)

Ironically the mud came from the actual station itself. Tripping over my own feet and falling into an embankment that was still a little damp from recent rain... My luck levels are non existent and misfortune at exorbitant levels!

Possibly a whole discussion of it's own, but I wonder how PF issuing will reduce when contactless cards become more widespread for fare evasion.

For Oyster cards, "swipes" in and out are stored on the card.  The barriers and handheld card readers require no network connection and can work out whether you have touched in immediately.

However, with contactless cards, information on the card is simply captured on swiping and fares/journeys calculated during an overnight process.  The new handheld readers cannot tell the operator that you haven't touched in with a contactless card.  The inspector's device will capture your card details they check overnight whether you were touched into a journey at that very moment in time.  A maximum fare (not penalty fare) then gets deducted overnight.

Cue a whole load of chancers just presenting their contactless card to inspectors as the maximum fare is cheaper than buying an actual ticket everyday.

That seems to me to be rather adventurous behaviour, for a young trout - well done!  ;D

Best watch out for one of these (http://www.nzfishing.com/Lures/FliesAndLures/Spider%20patterns.htm), though.  :-X

That's why contactless is only valid across the same Oyster area, and no further - so the maximum fare is always higher than the actual fare.
When Oyster/contactless is extended outwards, they will need to increase this maximum to cover the highest fare, to keep it a deterrent

There's been a discussion elsewhere that suggests there'll be a limit (unpublished) to the number of times a max cash fare will be charged before they take a different action.  An obvious thing to do would be to hotlist the card and stop you at a barrier, but if you keep doing it on an unbarriered part of the network they'll get to you via your bank...

Paul

I added my contactless cards to my tfl account recently. As far as I can remember there was a mention that if for any reason the a fare cannot be collected then this will be flagged requiring your attention (i.e. a payment required) and the card will be blocked. Presumably this hot list will be synchronised to all gates, buses, readers etc.

I would guess once you've cleared any issues the card may not be accepted until the next day when an update has occurred. If entering an unbarried station and encountering an inspector in this scenario, I would imagine they would need to make further checks.

And again, I'd assume if the card is "unregistered" any outstanding fares would need to be paid from that card to unblock it.

None of which would stop tfl making representations to the issuing bank of course in the meantime.

Looking at the TfL website (https://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/my-card-doesn-t-work), it seems they will block a contactless card after failed revenue inspections or on detection of suspicious travel activity.

My understanding now is that the devices (new style handheld readers, buses, barriers and standalone readers) all synchronise at least every 30 minutes.  This means it can be very fast for TfL to identify dodgy activity (and potentially flag up an "unstarted journey" during an inspection later in the journey).

I was considering running down the balance left on my Oyster and relying on contactless alone.

However, if you did a "few" contactless journeys without a chip and PIN transaction I assume there is a chance the card would not work which would be inconvenient. Obviously the banks do not elaborate as to the number of sequential contacless transactions that can be made before that happens.

I used my contactless card for a few weeks on the tube and encountered no issues. By touching the card on the reader it doesn't actually authorise a payment in the traditional sense, instead noting where the card is touched during the day. TFL then do the maths and decide how much to charge you at the end of the day (as I understand it!). The payments only ever appeared on my statement as one daily amount and sometimes didn't appear if I reached the weekly cap.

I believe TfL and the banks have developed a specific process of using contactless payment for travel which doesn't ever include asking for your PIN.  The ticket gates couldn't read a PIN anyway.

Paul

Indeed, I can only begin to imagine the chaos at the gatelines if it rejected contactless cards. I notice that they are marginally slower than an Oyster card, or maybe that's just my impatience  :D

TT I always enjoy reading your posts but that one especially!