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Title: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: grahame on March 07, 2015, 08:35:18 http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/draft/story-26120020-detail/story.html?
Quote Rail commuters are facing a miserable summer as electrification work begins between Chippenham and Bath ^ work which could provide a saving of just three minutes on the journey to London The work, part of a ^1.7 billion electrification project on the Great Western main line from London to Swansea, is set to disrupt journeys for thousands of passengers. Phase one begins on July 18, when Box Tunnel will be closed, affecting journeys between Bath and Chippenham, and journeys via Melksham. Title: Re: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: ellendune on March 07, 2015, 09:33:45 Has GW Electrification ever been promoted as a journey time reduction?
Title: Re: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: stuving on March 07, 2015, 09:58:21 Has GW Electrification ever been promoted as a journey time reduction? Yes. In pretty well every statement about every electrification. It's often given as "faster" rather than "shorter journeys", but that means the same. For example, from a randomly chosen DfT release: Quote Benefits of electric trains over diesel Electrified railways are essential to getting maximum efficiency and capacity from a modern railway. Compared to non-electrified railways, electrified railways are: faster quieter greener as they produce less CO2 and emit no air pollution at the trackside more reliable lighter and cause less wear and tear on the tracks more cost-effective for carrying freight loads cheaper to buy, operate and maintain "Faster" is top of the list. Title: Re: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: Super Guard on March 07, 2015, 10:03:26 Having the improved infrastructure to run the current timetable reliably would probably mean faster times! ;)
Title: Re: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: grahame on March 07, 2015, 10:10:05 Some government / official stuff about speed. Note weasel words "could" and "often" ...
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmwelaf/95/95we04.htm Quote In its statement announcing the scheme, the Department for Transport stated that journey times to South Wales from London could be improved by as much as 19 minutes. http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/News-Releases/Groundbreaking-factory-train-to-cut-years-off-Great-Western-Electrification-1e0d.aspx Quote Benefits of an electrified railway: They are more reliable and often faster. Title: Re: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: grahame on March 07, 2015, 10:18:54 And another ... off Network Rail's web site ...
Of course, "faster" doesn't necessarily mean shorter journey times if you increase the number of stops, station dwell time, and recovery time. Back to "do you want a train that takes 3 hours and run every 2 hours, or one that takes 3 hour and 20 minutes and runs twice an hour"? Bath, though, comes out of initial electrification plans as published and touted still with the same service level to London, but with more capacity because of abstraction of traffic onto extra services running via Badminton. This structuring would allow for the extra Metro West service from Bristol to Bath which another pair of expresses would not, and indeed that MetroWest could well be electric and extend east from Bath. Title: Re: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: phile on March 07, 2015, 10:37:15 They are slower now than in Steam Days !!!
Title: Re: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: grahame on March 07, 2015, 12:59:49 Quote from Claire Perry talking this morning at TravelWatch SouthWest
Quote Electrification will .. Reduce journey times Bristol - London by quarter of an hour Title: Re: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: stuving on March 07, 2015, 13:19:28 They are slower now than in Steam Days !!! What "they"? And when?I can find times for 1949, when the typical time from Bath was 2:05 or 2:10, and a non-stopper (the Bristolian) was 2:00. In 1965, (not relevant, but still) that's down to 1:43 non-stop but still 1:54 to 2:14 with stops. (Note these are not commuter trains - there were none. If you wanted to get to London before 9:00 you had to use the sleeper, which took 3 hours.) Today it's typically 1:30. The IEP schedules we have show 1:24. The pre-war Bristolian was timed at 1:45, but didn't serve Bath. Were most (non-prestige) trains anything like that speed? I suspect not. Quote from Claire Perry talking this morning at TravelWatch SouthWest Quote Electrification will .. Reduce journey times Bristol - London by quarter of an hour Of course that's done by IEP non-stopping from Bristol Parkway. Bath trains on the same 3-stop pattern as most are now are listed as 1:24 vs. 1:29 now. Title: Re: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: PhilWakely on March 07, 2015, 13:21:10 They are slower now than in Steam Days !!! Isn't this entirely down to today's compensation culture - i.e the fear of arriving late. Hence the large amounts of dwell and recovery time built in? Under the wires, journey times may decrease, but will probably still be slower than could be. Title: Re: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: Timmer on March 07, 2015, 15:23:51 I saw this chronicle article the other day thinking what a completely negative piece of journalism. No pain no gain springs to mind with regards to the work taking place in the Bath area July and August. We want new faster trains but work has to be done first in order for this to happen and that means buses and diversions. At least Bath will still have a direct link to London during the duration of the works.
Title: Re: Negative press - trade off, engineering v improvements brought Post by: Red Squirrel on March 07, 2015, 16:05:41 Quote Clickbait (n) Web content that is aimed at generating online advertising revenue, especially at the expense of quality or accuracy, relying on sensationalist headlines to attract click-throughs and to encourage forwarding of the material over online social networks. Ref: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickbait) This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |