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Title: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: ChrisB on March 11, 2015, 16:24:47 From CILT (http://ciltuk.org.uk/News/LatestNews/tabid/235/ctl/NewsItem/mid/589/Id/5327/Default.aspx?returnurl=%2fDefault.aspx%3fTabId%3d235%26Page%3d3)
Quote Paper tickets for travel on the railroad will be phased out by 2020 with passengers paying instead by their mobile phones or smart card. Patrick McLoughlin, the Transport Secretary, said the move away from printed tickets was necessary to make trains more accessible and allow passengers greater flexibility. Rail travellers in London are already able to use their ^Oyster Card^ to purchase season tickets and pay-as-they-go on the capital^s rail, Underground and bus network. In future, passengers will also be able to use their phones to make purchases and retain their ticket on their mobile device, as they can for air travel. Paper tickets, which have been used on the railways for 170 years, would be gradually phased out. Mr McLoughlin said extending the system around the country would in particular make it easier to buy flexible fairs {sic - for God's sake, doesn't anyone proof these days!) and part-time season tickets, ending the "complexity which makes buying a train ticket much harder than it should be." The Transport Secretary told The Times that transport had lagged behind industries such as the media when it came to taking advantage of new technology. At present, travellers must buy separate tickets for journeys using different train operators. (eh?!!! - Ed) Passengers in the north-east of England will be the first to get the opportunity to try out new technology which will allow them to access multiple services with a single ^e-ticket^. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: bobm on March 11, 2015, 16:31:07 "Railroad" - for goodness sake - they will be talking about "enhancing the travelling experience" next! ???
Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: TaplowGreen on March 11, 2015, 17:07:37 Excellent news - especially if it is coupled with an exercise to simplify the fare structure, and perhaps the savings made through introducing the scheme could be passed on to customers via lower fares? (he said, watching a pig fly past the window!) :D
Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: stuving on March 11, 2015, 18:25:58 That item from the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport (sic) refers to, and in fact was a straight copy from, the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/11458358/Patrick-McLoughlin-paper-tickets-will-be-phased-out-by-2020.html). So that is presumably where the blame lies.
However, that in turn says the minister was talking to the Times. That is not freely available online, but it did let me see the beginning of the article - dated 6th March: Quote Printed tickets for rail travel will be phased out within five years, according to the transport secretary. Most passengers will use mobile phones or Oyster-style smart cards to pay for journeys by the end of the next parliament, said Patrick McLoughlin. The shift away from printed tickets, which have been a feature on the railways for 170 years, was vital to make trains more accessible, he said. The move would make flexible fares and part-time season tickets easier to operate, ending the ^complexity which makes buying a train ticket much harder than it should be^. I thought the dailies do not usually steal each other's words, and that half-confirms it. It does still contain that bit about making travel more accessible, which I rather doubt - in the sense that many of the people most likely to find the current system confusing would find e-tickets even worse. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: bobm on March 11, 2015, 18:41:30 It does still contain that bit about making travel more accessible, which I rather doubt - in the sense that many of the people most likely to find the current system confusing would find e-tickets even worse. A very good point. I have a circle of relations who find the fares system rather too complex for them and a look to me to buy tickets and reservations on their behalf. How will that work once paper tickets go. Is that more accessible for them? Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Rhydgaled on March 11, 2015, 19:20:34 What if your mobile phone is just a phone (not one of these 'smart' thingies), has a flat battery, or has been left at home or in the heavy bag your grandmother said she would take home by car for you...
In terms of new technology, I would much rather see a full roll-out of print-at-home tickets, to enable Advance fares to be bought at short notice from stations with no ticket machine. Even if there is a ticket machine, I probably wouldn't want to rely on getting the ticket out of it if making a connection out of a bus service. Alternatively, introduce a system to collect pre-booked tickets from the on-board staff (and (re)introduce somebody to do that if the driver would otherwise be the only member of staff on the service). Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: ChrisB on March 11, 2015, 19:41:03 A) the same as if you left all forms if payment at home. You have to take responsibility for your own actions/property. It is no ine else's fault.
B) as long as you'll accept the extra fare hike to pay for your extra staff member. Most won't Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Brucey on March 11, 2015, 20:04:56 A) the same as if you left all forms if payment at home. You have to take responsibility for your own actions/property. It is no ine else's fault. Back in January, I checked out of a hotel at 9am. Then travelled round a city using my phone very occasionally. Took a 5hr flight to the UK which landed at 10pm and found my phone was now out of battery. No opportunity to charge it en-route. Should I be denied walk-up rail travel because I haven't had access to a plug socket all day?Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: ChrisB on March 11, 2015, 20:06:18 If you'd turned it off for those 5 hours....?
Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Brucey on March 11, 2015, 20:08:12 If you'd turned it off for those 5 hours....? It was in flight mode. But my argument remains. Just because I haven't been able to charge my phone, I can't buy a train ticket? That is plain ridiculous.Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: JayMac on March 11, 2015, 20:54:32 sic - for God's sake, doesn't anyone proof these days! It annoys me too. Also when it happens in forum posts. On the wider issue under discussion. Nobody should be prevented from accessing the rail network because they don't have a mobile device or facility to print a ticket at home. Not even in 5 years time. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: paul7575 on March 11, 2015, 23:55:19 I see the last line of the Telegraph's article was total rubbish then:
"At present, travellers must buy separate tickets for journeys using different train operators." I think a few of the online comments attempted to correct this but were probably overwhelmed by others... Paul Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: old original on March 12, 2015, 00:45:54 original article....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/11458358/Patrick-McLoughlin-paper-tickets-will-be-phased-out-by-2020.html ...with a Wessex 150 for illustration purposes!! Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: JayMac on March 12, 2015, 04:54:14 ...with a Wessex 150 for illustration purposes!! Looks like Looe Branch. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: ellendune on March 12, 2015, 06:55:11 ...with a Wessex 150 for illustration purposes!! Looks like Looe Branch. Which as the caption says is well known to be in the North East of England ::) Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Rhydgaled on March 12, 2015, 08:54:16 A) the same as if you left all forms if payment at home. You have to take responsibility for your own actions/property. It is no ine else's fault. So, if I don't posess a smartphone, I am considered to have no means of payment?B) as long as you'll accept the extra fare hike to pay for your extra staff member. Most won't Only need an extra member of staff if there isn't a guard/revenue-protection-person on-board anyway. And if you actually had revenue-protection staff on every train you wouldn't need to staff or maintain the ticket barriers, they could be left open or removed. I think guards, able to inform passengers of alternative onward travel in the event of delays causing missed connections etc. are far more worthwhile that ticket barriers.Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: TaplowGreen on March 12, 2015, 08:56:40 It does still contain that bit about making travel more accessible, which I rather doubt - in the sense that many of the people most likely to find the current system confusing would find e-tickets even worse. A very good point. I have a circle of relations who find the fares system rather too complex for them and a look to me to buy tickets and reservations on their behalf. How will that work once paper tickets go. Is that more accessible for them? Then apply pressure to get the fare system simplified? Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: lordgoata on March 12, 2015, 09:30:20 What if your mobile phone is just a phone (not one of these 'smart' thingies), has a flat battery, or has been left at home or in the heavy bag your grandmother said she would take home by car for you... Well I certainly will not be getting my phone out and waving it around the ticket barrier when 3 trains worth of impatient passengers and scores of messing around school kids are trying to barge through them at Maidenhead every morning.... Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: JayMac on March 12, 2015, 09:37:29 Told by a DSM at Bristol TM this morning that e-tickets are coming to the Severn Beach Line from September. He knew not whether all ticket types would be available. Does any TOC currently sell walk-up e-tickets?
Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: ChrisB on March 12, 2015, 10:45:32 A) the same as if you left all forms if payment at home. You have to take responsibility for your own actions/property. It is no ine else's fault. So, if I don't posess a smartphone, I am considered to have no means of payment?I didn't say that. If you leave your smartphone (if you have one) and you're wallet (with cards cards/cash in) at home, you're knackered. Same as now, no change. It's your fault. B) as long as you'll accept the extra fare hike to pay for your extra staff member. Most won't Only need an extra member of staff if there isn't a guard/revenue-protection-person on-board anyway. And if you actually had revenue-protection staff on every train you wouldn't need to staff or maintain the ticket barriers, they could be left open or removed.[/quote]doh! Which do you think would be cheaper? a few on each set of barriers or one revenue person on each train, first train to last train? Isn't that why barriers were invented? Quote I think guards, able to inform passengers of alternative onward travel in the event of delays causing missed connections etc. are far more worthwhile that ticket barriers. So do I - but the accountants don't [/quote] Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Rhydgaled on March 12, 2015, 11:39:26 So, if I don't posess a smartphone, I am considered to have no means of payment? I didn't say that. If you leave your smartphone (if you have one) and you're wallet (with cards cards/cash in) at home, you're knackered. Same as now, no change. It's your fault.Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: ChrisB on March 12, 2015, 11:54:34 Told by a DSM at Bristol TM this morning that e-tickets are coming to the Severn Beach Line from September. He knew not whether all ticket types would be available. Does any TOC currently sell walk-up e-tickets? Don't think so. This'll be interesting.... Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: JayMac on March 12, 2015, 14:41:51 DSM seem pretty convinced. FGW Management team chap, not one of the supervisors on DSM duties.
Also told me that other Bristol area improvements that are the responsibility of the TOC aren't going ahead whilst the franchise is in limbo. Such as TVM and staffing for Clifton Down. His reasoning? Why should FGW invest if they may not be the franchisee soon? So I learned a little to answer the Wolmar question. Franchising is for delaying investment until it suits the franchisee, not because it is needed. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: ellendune on March 12, 2015, 18:50:39 So I learned a little to answer the Wolmar question. Franchising is for delaying investment until it suits the franchisee, not because it is needed. I suggest franchises must have been put in place with the sole intention of annoying BNM. Or so it would seem. Why would a company agree to pay ^30k for a TVM with no hope of getting a return on it? If you want a charity to run the railways I suggest you start one and see how long it takes them to raise the ^30k for a TVM. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: JayMac on March 13, 2015, 00:35:11 So I learned a little to answer the Wolmar question. Franchising is for delaying investment until it suits the franchisee, not because it is needed. I suggest franchises must have been put in place with the sole intention of annoying BNM. Or so it would seem. Why would a company agree to pay ^30k for a TVM with no hope of getting a return on it? If you want a charity to run the railways I suggest you start one and see how long it takes them to raise the ^30k for a TVM. Straw man. ::) Yes, I drew my own conclusion. But there must be something not quite right in the 'system' if I have a well placed manager (near the top of Bristol TM hierarchy) telling me that the issues I raised would have been addressed were it not for the uncertainty with the FGW franchise.* I look forward to the e-ticket trial I was told about this morning. But experience tells me that what Bristol TM managers tell me is far removed from what actually happens. Already in this thread we have a FGW Customer Panel member totally unaware of such a trial. I've asked FGW Customer Services via social media about this trial. Initial reply is best summed up as 'Huh?' *I await the "It's not FGW's fault" response... Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: ChrisB on March 13, 2015, 10:37:11 But experience tells me that what Bristol TM managers tell me is far removed from what actually happens. Makes you wonder why then you don't take their info with a touch of suspicion then if they're rarely right? Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: TonyK on March 19, 2015, 17:07:25 DSM seem pretty convinced. FGW Management team chap, not one of the supervisors on DSM duties. Also told me that other Bristol area improvements that are the responsibility of the TOC aren't going ahead whilst the franchise is in limbo. Such as TVM and staffing for Clifton Down. His reasoning? Why should FGW invest if they may not be the franchisee soon? Sadly, that makes perfect commercial sense. The previous TVM at Clifton Down was vandalised within days. Anything that increases the take at the fare box - remember it is still only ^3 return from SVB to BRI - will make this line less susceptible to politics. My preferred option would be the contactless card readers as on London Underground - so easy to use. You can buy tickets for First buses by mobile phone, and they are being used. I keep forgetting to charge my phone up, so I haven't looked into it yet. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: JayMac on March 19, 2015, 20:09:32 A separate topic about the forthcoming trial of Smart Ticketing on the Severn Beach Line has been started here:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15518.0 Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 11, 2015, 21:05:31 Does anyone know what this actually means - or will mean - in practice?
Does it mean that by 2020 there will be no paper tickets, or that paper tickets will start to 'be phased out' from that date? What will replace paper tickets? What, if anything, will a passenger receive to show they have paid for travel? Will you still be able to buy a 'ticket' (whatever form that takes, whether printed card or phone app or whatever) at point of travel - or will you have to purchase it in advance? Will there be any provision for people without some 'mobile device' to travel (eg kids taking the train to school)? Will there be 'tickets' in the form of eg SMS, email etc, or will there be a smart card system like the Oyster card? If a smart card, will it be a national scheme valid for all services and all TOCs, or will different franchises have their own cards? Is this perhaps not a scheme to 'make efficiencies' by moving to an online or machine only system, making ticket window staff redundant? Can an announcement about a long-term scheme made so close to a general election be considered to have any validity a t all? Does even the DfT know any of these things yet? And is there any connection with eg this: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Fares-rail-policy-and-DfT-news/dft-invests-in-smart-ticketing-in-the-west-midlands Quote Separately, the minister also announced that the government will be working with the UK Cards Association ^ the body representing the card payments industry ^ to bring contactless payment to public transport country-wide. ...which would suggest it's about payment methods, rather than tickets per se?The association will lead a project to coordinate actions among card payment processors, card issuers as well as UK transport operators. Intrigued! Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: ellendune on April 11, 2015, 21:17:05 Nederlandse Spoorwegen (Dutch Railways) have already done something that could be interpreted as this. There are also similar schemes on the metro systems in Lisbon and Porto (Portugal).
In Portugal you have a smart card that can be loaded with one or more journeys of a particular zone (you cannot mix). In the Netherlands I think it just holds a standard ticket on a smartcard. All tickets are some sort of smart card, which can be loaded with either one sort of ticket or various sorts of tickets. At the least change this could mean you have to own a smart card that is loaded with the same ticket you might have bought today - not sure that give the passenger any benefits at all. At the most change it could make it something like a Oyster pay as you go ticket - though that leads to all sorts of difficulties. Not sure any system of benefit tot the passenger can work without some simplification of the fares system. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Brucey on April 11, 2015, 21:28:56 The Dutch system offers disposable smartcards for single-use (railway) tickets ... at a surcharge of ^1 per ticket. The re-usable cards require a minimum credit balance of ^20 to enter the railway system or ^4 for a bus. Again, neither of these "features" give the passenger any benefits!
That's before we even consider the complexity of using Dutch Railway ticket machines. Coins or Maestro/VPay debit cards only (the only mainstream UK bank offering Maestro is the Post Office, none offer VPay). No notes accepted at machines (imagine paying a ^100 fare with coins). Some machines at larger stations take Mastercard and Visa at a ^1 surcharge. Surcharge of ^0.50 to use a ticket office if wishing to pay with notes or seek advice. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: lordgoata on April 11, 2015, 21:42:44 Sweden is similar, in Malmo you have the JoJo card which you load up with money and use it on the buses where it just deducts the fare for the journey (if I recall its a fixed fee that is valid for a certain amount of time, so if you get off one bus and straight onto another you are not charged twice if its within the time frame). Or you can use it to buy a paper ticket for the trip to Copenhagen, and I guess on the trains within Malmo, but I've only used the Copenhagen to Malmo service. Cards can be topped up in many places, including the 7-11 stores.
In Stockholm you have the SL access card for the commuter services, which you then load up with tickets, 24 hour, 3 day or 7 day if I recall. I much prefer the Malmo system as the money on the smart card doesn't run out, so its always there when I need it - where as Stockholm I have to load up every visit. Again these can be topped up many places, including news agents. I guess these are similar to the Oyster system, but having never used it, I know nothing about it. I'd be happy with either system, but I will not be happy to have to rely on my phone exclusively. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 11, 2015, 23:25:10 With buses it's - or can be - comparatively easy, I think, because it's common to have a flat fare anyway. Lots of urban buses in various parts of Europe are like this - you cannot buy a ticket on the bus, you get it from a kiosk, a newsagent, supermarket or coin-operated machine at the stop. But it's also common in such places that most people use some sort of season ticket - much cheaper and more convenient. Of course there have to be one-off tickets as well.
But those are all still paper tickets. Replacing them with a smart card is essentially what London has done. I understand TfL is now moving away from the Oyster towards contactless debit card payment - I guess this is cheaper for them because the admin and clearing is then the banks' responsibility! Trains have so many different ticket types and destinations, it's hard to see how a smart card or debit card system could work. It would be pretty much uncheckable, I think. Smart phone systems would bypass this problem but introduce others of accessibility, connectivity (signal) and battery life. But as yet we don't know what is planned, if anything, it seems... Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: TonyK on April 29, 2015, 16:58:54 I was in London in January, and used my contactless credit card throughout - no need for an Oyster card, but all the benefits of fare capping and cheaper tube fares. Plus, because it's a Santander card, I got 3% cash back, even on the buses. I registered with TfL (free) and got access to a statement of all my travel.
I thought it a brilliant solution, one I wish Bristol would adopt now. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: JayMac on April 29, 2015, 23:33:40 Name change?
Contactless Bristol, Now! ??? Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: TonyK on April 30, 2015, 20:39:20 Name change? Contactless Bristol, Now! ??? Steady there, BNM. Cost me money to do the deed poll thing. I only did it the time before I became FT,N! because I wanted a personalised number plate for my Cavalier, but couldn't afford "FTN 4T" at DVLA's prices. It proved much cheaper to change my name by deed poll to fit the car. Yours sincerely, B350 FVO (Mrs) Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: eightf48544 on April 28, 2017, 15:06:10 Whilst phasing out paperless tickets by 2020 still seems to bean aspiration, it is alleged that DfT will not mandate a system for TOCs to use.
The only criterion being they should be compatible, whatever that means. Presumably if my nearest station is GWR I can buy my smartcard there and can use all over the country on non FGW trains? Or will I have to get a smartphone and carry it around fully charged. It is suggested that robots and AI will do away with jobs. I've got a feeling that we are going to have to employ a lot more people to sort out the mess badly programmed machines and systems get us into. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 28, 2017, 15:56:21 ... Isn't the smartcard more likely to be your bank card? Presumably if my nearest station is GWR I can buy my smartcard there and can use all over the country on non FGW trains? Or will I have to get a smartphone and carry it around fully charged. ... Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: didcotdean on April 28, 2017, 18:32:06 The Dutch system offers disposable smartcards for single-use (railway) tickets ... at a surcharge of ^1 per ticket. The re-usable cards require a minimum credit balance of ^20 to enter the railway system or ^4 for a bus. Again, neither of these "features" give the passenger any benefits! Tripkey (http://www.tripkey.nl/)is more useful possibly these days for a one-off visitor than the OV Chipkaart although it has limited collection points and some drawbacks such as not easily being able to sort out an incomplete journey record. Interestingly this is the initiative of a private company who made an arrangement with NS.The €20 fare deduction is a fair percentage of the maximum possible single train fare in the Netherlands. Here it would probably need to be over £100 to work on the same principle, ie a non-starter. However, this is really a by product of the relatively low use of credit cards - a UK version working on this principle could be linked to one. I suspect a UK system would simply be loading a record of a journey bought onto the smart card, season or one-off, rather than PAYG. Frankly this approach has been superseded already by mobile ticketing. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: caliwag on April 28, 2017, 19:41:47 Apologies if this has already been said! But there must be more important issues to concern him!
Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: AMLAG on April 28, 2017, 20:07:01 Will this thus mean the wholesale closure of National railway station Booking Offices,with resultant thousands of job losses, as has regretfully happened on the London Underground ?
Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: stuving on April 28, 2017, 20:29:47 Did anything actually happen today to make this two-year-old thread news again?
Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: TaplowGreen on April 28, 2017, 21:00:40 Will this thus mean the wholesale closure of National railway station Booking Offices,with resultant thousands of job losses, as has regretfully happened on the London Underground ? There's a certain inevitability about that as more and more people buy online etc, and why queue up for a ticket if you can simply swipe your card/phone? It's called change I'm afraid, and it's never easy, not that I wish to downplay the effect it will have on those concerned. If I'm honest I really can't remember the last time I used a ticket office - I renew my season ticket online and buy other tickets that way too, and yes I do know that some people prefer to buy them face to face but those numbers are dwindling, like in every other sector. No doubt everyone will be out on strike if it looks like it's going to happen? Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: John R on April 28, 2017, 21:33:19 Did anything actually happen today to make this two-year-old thread news again? Recently it was announced that the DfT was abandoning the initiative. So yes, there was a relevance to restarting the thread.Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Sixty3Closure on April 28, 2017, 22:21:27 Well as someone who doesn't own a mobile phone, smart or otherwise, that's a bit of a relief.
But then I'd still pay by cheque if I could...... ;D Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: stuving on April 28, 2017, 22:27:40 Did anything actually happen today to make this two-year-old thread news again? Recently it was announced that the DfT was abandoning the initiative. So yes, there was a relevance to restarting the thread.I can't help thinking it would have been a lot less confusing for everyone if that bit of information had been provided when the thread was restarted. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 29, 2017, 20:32:18 Thanks for your comment, stuving.
Looking back over the previous posts on this particular topic, I note that it has generally been an 'ongoing discussion' - so I have now renamed the thread accordingly. I, too, have sometimes dredged up a rather old topic, in order to link it to a current item of news. Purely in the interests of continuity and clarity, obviously. :P However, may I take this opportunity to encourage all of our contributing members to continue to update any old topics on the Coffee Shop forum, if they find something useful / interesting / amuzing to add to our discussions here? I am always available to amend topic headings, or merge topics, if that will help. CfN. ;) Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: ChrisB on April 30, 2017, 09:34:54 Did anything actually happen today to make this two-year-old thread news again? Recently it was announced that the DfT was abandoning the initiative. So yes, there was a relevance to restarting the thread.Can you point to any source for this? As a TOC recently told me that it is NOT the case at all.... Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: John R on April 30, 2017, 16:55:01 The DfT are passing responsibility of the project to the RDG (as noted in the following link https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2017/04/20-nao-highlights-smart-ticketing-failings.html).
I've seen comment elsewhere that this is considered to be a considerable back-pedalling on a project that is hugely over budget and late - move a failing project away from control of the DfT so that when it is descoped and funding cut the finger pointing is deflected. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: ChrisB on April 30, 2017, 18:30:15 Indeed, but the RDG are still responsible for it to the DfT....and I understand at least some of the development to be complete well begore the year stated
Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: John R on April 30, 2017, 21:07:25 You asked why the OP had resurrected the thread, and I (trying to be helpful, and knowing I had read it somewhere) suggested the reason why that might be the case. Then, not content with that, you asked for evidence. Again, I looked online and found something that was related. Again, you argued over whether or not it is true, which is incidental to your original challenge as to why the thread was reopened.
Having now dug around further, I've found the online version of where I originally read it, namely the Sunday Times last week. A government scheme to expand smart ticketing on busy rail lines has been scrapped after costs more than doubled despite most train operators failing to adopt it, according to the spending watchdog. The Department for Transport has been forced to close a project for Oyster-style tickets across southeast England despite spending £54 million on the scheme, £9 million more than the original budget. So, whether or not the article is true, it does seem reasonable that the thread was restarted. Title: Re: Proposal to phase out paper tickets by 2020 - ongoing discussion Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 30, 2017, 21:29:22 Thanks for your update, John R. :)
For completeness, here is a link to that particular article in the Sunday Times (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/smart-train-tickets-hit-the-buffers-after-costs-double-b7r8hct2j) - but you will need to register to read their full text. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |