Great Western Coffee Shop

I have a regular relationship with fgw customer services regarding the fact that I have a first class season ticket and they don't supply enough seats. So, every month, I fire them a claim under National Conditions Of Carriage claiming a refund because I have to stand despite having a first class ticket.

Within the past month these are getting rejected on the grounds that I didn't reserve a seat and, quote "no reservation equals no refund". Lovely.

Before I go nuclear on them does anyone have any insight into how fgw have decided to change their terms?

If they are making up lies to suit themselves and disputing the national conditions of carriage I will not rest until they suffer as much as I have.

Thanks

I've found the following on national rail

Those are the rules as I understand them and even quote in my templated letters. I cannot convey how much these cheats peeve me.

I noticed after recent disruption that my compensation for a First Class stand had dropped from ^18.70 (17 months ago) to ^8.50.  I sense a resistance to compensate.

NRCoC:
Now is there a quibble over what 'available' means and whether seats come into it ...

FGW passenger charter
If you hold a First Class ticket and there are no seats available we will offer compensation in National Rail Travel Vouchers or as an e-voucher credit to your online FGW account, based on the cost of your ticket.

I'd like to take suggestions on how to have a face to face with someone at fgw that doesn't involve me travelling to Plymouth or waiting until August for a meet the manager?

FGW HQ is based in Swindon. Plymouth is where Customer services is based.

Tradings standards?  Small Claims Court?   

- first step would be to write  second letter threatening those

I would be inclined to write to FGW asking for a face to face meeting without threatening anything else at this stage.

They do have some staff at offices in Paddington, but I am not sure whether any of them would be relevant to your complaint.

Why not try emailing the MD first, as an email exchange is a little less emotive than a face to face meeting with someone and also provides you with a record:

<firstname>.<surname>@ firstgroup.com, I'm sure you know the MD's name...

I believe that approach has been used with some success in the past.

I also found things were resolved very rapidly when I contact a national tyre retailer in this way with regards to a complaint that was poorly dealt with (i.e. ignored) at branch level. It can be surprising how swiftly board level management will react to something that otherwise might not get picked up on their radar.

Thanks one and all.  I'll start off with a full and polite email to the top and work down from there.

Thanks

I've certainly had success from emailing MD. Use "power" language without threatening any other action initially.
I cc'd my MP but that isn't possible right now in the lead up to the election.
My experience is emailing the MD gets results, but it took a while.

In my experience, e-mailing Mark Hopwood (Managing Director, FGW) and / or Sue Evans (Director of Communications, FGW) (their names are in the public domain) with a politely expressed enquiry has produced a quite specific reply.

However, it may take a little time, as they will obviously have to pass the query on to the particular team who can help.  :P

Did they state on what grounds the reduction was made ?

You might want to look at the "1st class reduction - ongoing discussion" thread in Across the West too.

The passenger charter is perfectly clear.

If no seats then we pay out.

It's also considered a done thing that if you cannot get a seat in First Class and as a result you take a seat in Standard Class (which is available) then you are compensated. Rightly so in my opinion.

I can't see how a TOC can justify not refunding the additional First Class part of the fare if you didn't actually use the service on the train.

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A long time ago I had issue on a Southern Trains service where I purchased a First Class Ticket to travel from Brighton - London Victoria. The train was short formed and had 5 Carriages instead of 10. There was a "Celebrity" onboard and some passengers who claimed they had rights to deny me entry to First Class Private Security told me First Class was off limits. Any other passenger I think would have accepted this, sat in Standard Class and claimed back from the TOC if they could be bothered.

I however being the awkward sod I am, was having absolutely none of it. To cut a long story short. A vicious verbal argument broke out, I quoted NRCoC, that got the BTP called and the train delayed.

Southern kinda missed the point and said that First Class would have been refunded if the accommodation was full (it wasn't) but refunded me the fare in full + a good will gesture for the distress I received and subsequent severe delays I encountered as a result (A missed flight from Stansted >:( )

Quick update:  Mr Hopwood has a polite yet informative email in his inbox with a request to investigate the issue and confirm FGW's policy to me.

A response from Mr Hopwood's office.  Trimming off the intro and 'Standard Class has improved' sections:

"I was disappointed to learn that you have been advised compensation is not payable on the occasions when you have been unable to get a seat in First Class. As you have rightly ascertained, this is not the case and compensation is payable under the terms set in our Passengers Charter, and this will be the difference between First and Standard Class based on the cost of your ticket. I have raised this as a training issue across our customer relations department, and also added an alert to your contact information to ensure that compensation is processed correctly when you have the need to claim."

So at least everyone is clear on the rules now.  It was a nice response, delivered promptly, so I can't fault that.

They are still encouraging me to make a seat reservation.  I am not sure how I feel about this...  Given that I travel on a Worcester-->Padd HST, but only boarding at Maidenhead, I am concerned that if I start making reservations then this will quickly escalate to the point that everyone makes reservations and suddenly there are empty seats with reservations on and even more people standing.  It seems like an escalation that will keep me happy in the short term but ultimately make the situation worse for the wider population.  I'd be curious as to others' thoughts on this.

You run the risk of a verbal headache when someone is sat in your reserved seat each morning that's for sure...

As much as I want to say it's a good idea. In practice passengers aren't very bright when it comes to the railway. So they won't sit in a seat reserved from Bath Spa - Exeter St Davids if they are travelling from London Paddington - Bath Spa.

Whilst I am generalising there big time. It's predominantly true. I have got called out for sitting in reserved seats when making a journey that is not covered under the reserved label and told "You can't do that" by other passengers. Trying to explain the method is also hard work.

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Sidestepping this issue slightly. A friend of mine had to stand from Westbury - London Paddington (Standard Class Ticket Holder) and wrote an email to FGW. FGW refunded the ticket but took a ^10 admin fee... What is all that about? ::) :-\ :-X

I would pursue that ^10 with a passion. There is no basis for that deduction being made and infers that they have treated it as an 'unused ticket' rather than a breach of Passengers Charter.

Following the issues raised and dodgy practices unmasked on "Dispatches" this week, together with the totally inappropriate announcements made on the FGW train following a recent suicide I think the FGW training department will be quite busy for a while.

When you buy  a ticket you buy a ticket for travel, not for a seat. The only circumstance where you'd be entitled to a seat is if you reserved a seat at the point of purchase.

The FGW Passenger Charter entitles NickB to a refund in these circumstances:https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/about-us/customer-services/passenger-charter

Yep, I did mention in the original posting that this is for a First Class ticket.
FGW have acknowledged, via mark hopwood's office, that they were incorrect to be declining the refunds. Responses since then have paid out without issue, although the amount of compensation is very varied which indicates to me that the processes for refunds are not clearly defined to the customer services staff.

Don't worry folks, Penzance-Paddington seems to have a thing about seats on GWR services.

The matter that caused concern was resolved in mid-May. Looks likely P-P may have read no further in the thread than the post from April 23rd that he quoted.

P-P has said elsewhere that he is training to be an RPO. It's perfectly possible he may encounter a situation where 1st Class is full and a 1st Class ticket holder asks about their refund rights after having to travel in Standard Class. As Brucey has pointed out, passengers in this situation are entitled to a refund of the difference  between the 1st Class and Standard Class fares for the effected journey.

And it's not just something GWR do as a charter commitment. It's an entitlement laid down in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/NRCOC.pdf#page=18).

That's today's RPO training module completed.  ::) :P