Great Western Coffee Shop

OpenTrainTimes have recently launched some live signalling maps featuring some Great Western routes, namely Paddington, Southall to Stockley, Reading to Cholsey and Didcot Parkway to Banbury.

Very useful if you want to check the location of a train or you're sitting in a queue of delayed train following a signal failure.

http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps (http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps)

I know this is just up and running so mistakes will always occur but on the Reading Map I've noticed a couple of errors, signal 1743 on the down main appears to have a connection on to the festival line after it, I don't believe this is true, also if you were heading west on the Feeder Main there should be a crossover to the Feeder Relief just before Oxford Rd Junc

They are 2, I have already noticed. There's another couple of minor problems I have noticed, but I was going to wait until there was a service on all lines before informing Peter Hicks.

There is a problem with the Southall map at the moment, already notified, where the signal aspects have gone awry. This is most probably due to the re-signalling that has been going on in the area.

Just started yesterday - open train times has installed the live version of the Swindon area track plan

http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/swindon

I was playing with this earlier on (having only learnt about it over the weekend from this forum). I brought up the  Reading map and click on a service which was in P1 at the time and it brought up a service from Euston :)

Maybe just teething troubles but I think whoever has put this together has done a great job!

Can now follow my whole journey from Swindon to Oxford, which is pretty cool.  ;D

Also shows the track fault that is causing express trains to call at Platform 3 at Didcot, with the berth to 0952 closed (asked about in another thread).

But no clue why the line is currently closed between Swindon and Didcot! (17:45 on Monday)

[EDIT] - scratch that - it's a 24-hour old tweet from @FGW!  :-[

But there is something going on: 1L80 seems to have been held outside Swindon for 20 minutes or so...

I've just looked at Open Train Times and it shows 2N52 on P4 at Didcot - when I click on that headcode it shows a service from London Victoria to Ashford International...am I missing something here?

I've noticed occasionally on the Reading diagram that signals will turn from green to red without any train being shown on the Map eg: A train has allegedly gone into P10 so I have a look on RTT to find that '1A01' has actually just arrived into P10. I then look further down the line on the OTT map to see '1A01 only passing through Tilehurst. I then look back onto RTT to see that this unit passing Tilehurst is in fact '2B02' so it seems the OTT map system doesn't quite register every train correctly.

Seems the designer of OTT has not designed the link from the signalling display to account for the 4 character train IDs not being unique, across the country, there's about 87 x 2N52s in the list his search system shows up:   http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/search?commit=Search&page=4&q%5Bc%5D%5B1433786431605%5D%5Ba%5D%5B0%5D%5Bname%5D=train_identity&q%5Bc%5D%5B1433786431605%5D%5Bp%5D=eq&q%5Bc%5D%5B1433786431605%5D%5Bv%5D%5B0%5D%5Bvalue%5D=2N52&utf8=✓ (http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/search?commit=Search&page=4&q%5Bc%5D%5B1433786431605%5D%5Ba%5D%5B0%5D%5Bname%5D=train_identity&q%5Bc%5D%5B1433786431605%5D%5Bp%5D=eq&q%5Bc%5D%5B1433786431605%5D%5Bv%5D%5B0%5D%5Bvalue%5D=2N52&utf8=✓)   

Paul

As a long time user of OTT, I can report that it is normally real time, only a few seconds delay. There was an error last week, now fixed, which introduced a delay. (see Blog at bottom).

The maps are only reporting what the data feed from Network Rail signalling centre is providing (TVSC in the case of GW). Each signalling element is represented by 1 bit (ie 0 = red, 1 = green) in the feed. If you want to read about the technicalities of it go to the Open Rail Data Wiki, but you need a good understanding of binary.

Peter Hicks, the developer, does this as a hobby. I have reported to him the faults with the Reading map, but he has obviously been busy creating the new maps to correct them.

I normally watch OTT in one window and RTT in another just for time tabling info, and as I said in the Reading thread RTT cannot be relied upon for the actual routeing and platform allocations.

Hello, it's Peter here - I run OpenTrainTimes.


I measured it as less than two seconds between a signal changing from a proceed aspect at Putney this evening, and the map on my phone updating.  That's really quite fast!


I have the faults logged in Jira, I just need to find some time to sit down and work on them - OpenTrainTimes is my hobby, I don't make a penny from it and I spent an inordinate number of hours working on it, keeping the Open Rail Data wiki up-to-date and replying to messages on the openraildata-talk mailing list.  I'm surprised I have time to eat...!

It's not quite that straightforward - there are 87 instances of a 2N52, but I take in to account the location the train originates, and I also try to 'hand over' data between train describers (there can be three train describers reporting the same train in the same berth in some places around Upminster) - but it's not currently perfect and sometimes mis-links trains.

I'm working on a better solution - either I need to improve the fuzzy matching I do, or I need to nail it down and make it accurate, but liable to break when train describer configurations change, as they do regularly.

Welcome to the forum Poggs  :)

Welcome to the forum from me and a big thanks for the work you have done on OTT

Maybe one day I will see my line (from Reading through Thatcham) - I believe it goes as far as southcote Jn at the moment

Once again many thanks

When I'm at home (when its dark) I can see the bank of 3 signals at the bottom of the flyover just before Reading and every time I've compared the changing of those signals with the Map it literally has been split second and certainly is an impressive piece of software. Looking forward to bug improvements and more locations in the future, but certainly a very well done to you Peter

Yes indeed, welcome to the forum and many thanks for providing what is a very useful tool for many of us forum members and the wider railway community - including many staff.  I'm looking forward to seeing more of the FGW network (and wider network) come on stream where the relevant data feeds are available, especially the remaining sections between Reading and Paddington


One of Poggs' friendly rival sites at www.railcam.uk/site  (http://www.railcam.uk/site) does have that route covered in its selection of maps, though not quite covering Reading itself, though the downside is that there's a ^10 supporters subscription per year to view them.

Welcome, Poggs - good to have you on the forum.

And thank you also for your excellent work on Opentraintimes.

I expect you get lots of requests, so here is another one!

I have the Reading and Oxford maps up together, to follow progress across my old stamping ground. Unfortunately, Didcot East Junction and Moreton Cutting are missing. Any chance of adding this missing link? (same applies to Swindon - Didcot).

Thanks again though for a great job.

Are you taking into account the time the light takes to travel from the signal to your eye? It sounds as though it might be significant, given the rapid response.
 ;D

Welcome, Peter, and thank you for a fascinating service! It's much better watching than the telly most nights.

Good news for Thames Valley commuters in that www.opentraintimes.com (http://www.opentraintimes.com) has a better map covering Paddington out to just shy of Acton Main Line in the latest release.  Even better news is that www.railcam.uk (http://www.railcam.uk) has released a map showing the entire route from Reading to London Paddington with its latest release - for ^10 a year you can watch a train all the way from Paddington to Liskeard - as well as many other areas of the FGW network and wider UK.

The opentraintimes map of Paddington includes signal routing information which gives it the edge in the area that it covers, but the railcam maps cover a much wider area.  This should help many Thames Valley commuters with information regarding their train/journeys and we should express our thanks to both sites for providing the information and to Network Rail for providing the data under a free licence.

There is a new map on Opentraintimes which fills the gap between its existing Heathrow map and the Reading area one.

The new map (Twyford to West Drayton) is at http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/slough (http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/slough).  It also includes the branches to Henley, Bourne End and Windsor as well as the Colnbrook line.

Also the Exeter map has been extended to include Exeter Central and the line to Taunton to just past Cowley Bridge.

Good to see, well done Peter and the team for all their hard work, though if he's reading this, I must point out that signals 1658 and 1660 seem to be mixed up, I've just been watching trains morph from the up relief to the up main and vice versa.

Yes - many thanks Poggs. I find that the Manager and catering staff (as well as the occasional driver on the cushions) on Virgin West Coast (usually Euston - Manchester) are always particularly interested in OTT when I am tracking progress, and like to keep stopping by and making (positive) comment.

Sometimes, held at signals, the aspect changes, but nothing happens. I want to shout at the driver 'put that paper down and watch the board'. We get there in the end. . .

Berks and Hants would be nice . . .

Again, thanks for all the hard work - much appreciated here.

Of the various different real time maps, it think the OTT ones are the clearest.

As well as the extension to the Exeter Map, it now shows more line routings so you can see which road a particular train has been given.  I'd love to see that introduced for the Reading or Paddington areas.

Thanks for all your comments!  It's hard work trying to get even one map out, but three in a week was fuelled by caffeine and perseverance!  I'm fixing the problem with 1658 and 1660 berths this evening.

I'd love to put route indications on at Paddington, but there are several alternate routes available between signals.  For example, SN37 to platforms 2 and 3 has two possible routes - one via the set of points closest to SN37 signal, and one to the farther set of points.  The train describer only outputs a single indication for both routes, so it's not easily possible to determine which points are set for the route.  I could spend time working out which routes conflict with each other, but that's a lot of work.

For the signalling-minded, these are called 'meshed routes'.  What I could do is display the platform number next to the last signal before entering the platform, a la London Waterloo - and I might look at doing this.

Another new map on OTT in our area, this time from Reading West to Heywood Junction

Westbury area map added today covering out to Trowbridge and Castle Cary and linking to the existing maps for the Salisbury and Berks & Hants areas.

http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/westbury

The Cholsey to Radley and Chippenham map has now got full route indications from Uffington, via Swindon, to Hullavington/Thingley Junction.  The Didcot area has been promised soon.

http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/swindon

When I clicked on this at around 2010 I was surprised to see 1C94 on the branch. Turns out it's the 1835 Paddington to Exeter diverted via MKM due to a bridge strike. 

Indeed - it crawled through Swindon just behind the 18:30 Paddington to Weston-super-Mare.

Having missed out stations on the Berks & Hants it didn't look that busy - unsurprisingly.

EDIT - as seen on the new staff screen installed on platform 4.  The Exeter train on the right - the Weston-super-Mare on the left.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/swiscreen.jpg)

As was the 1803 Paddington to Penzance! (I know, cos I was on it! Got to Newbury and held on the Down Through for 15 minutes before setting back towards Reading and Chippenham)  >:(

Catering crew on that had a good day.  Nearly an hour late leaving on their up trip from Plymouth, shortened meal break at Paddington and then late home!

The New Year 2017 updated maps showing the new Maidenhead track and signalling layout can be found here: http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/slough and the revised Acton, Old Oak Common and Paddington track and signalling layouts can be found here: http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/d3_1

There is also a new map of Cardiff to Bridgend here: http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/cardiff

With the new layout including Platform 8 at Cardiff Central.    Note cannot run from Main Line at Cardiff East into the Valley platforms (6,7 and 8) now

I was at Axminster last Wednesday during disruption and one of the platform staff was using Open Train times on a phone as their source of information.

The layout is clearer than most staff systems such as P2 or Tornado Mobile, so as more staff find out about it more are using it - as long as the area they need is covered of course.

Noted that the new Acton Diveunder came into use this evening (Monday 02/01/2017).  Several conflicts between trains on the Up Relief and those departing Acton Yard to the Down Relief observed to have been avoided already.

Great news - I look forward to riding on/under it in due course. Another important piece of infrastructure that will make travel in to Paddington more reliable. Just looking at the map it seems odd that there is a signal for down movements from the fly under and a shunt signal as well - what would/could they be used for? I don't see what route the down signal could be used for!

There are some errors in the positioning of certain signals in the Acton and Old Oak Common areas.  I, and several other users, normally report issues like that to the site owner and they get incorporated into the next appropriate update.

For example signal SN205 should be on the exit of Acton Yard (leading to the Down Relief) on the same line as signal SN200.

I was going to alert him of that one myself!  ;)

I also think platforms 2 & 3 at Westbury are reversed.

I suggest that if you find an error that you let them know as we might all miss something.

I also report problems to the support.

I thought SN205 looked odd and thought it was the signal that was back-to-back with SN200 at the exit to the yard.

On the new piece of map, I think there is also a position light missing on the Up Main before signal SN194, it was what the local trains were reversing at during the christmas blockade.

In redrawing the Friars Junction/Old Oak Common West area, the Up signal/berth on the Up Carriage Line (prior to the Greenford Line junction) has been removed/omitted.

It would be interesting to see how the missing area between Ealing Broadway and Heathrow will be covered. The best option would be a single map Paddington to Heathrow. If there are to be two maps, I would suggest Padddington to Hanwell, including the Greenford loop, and Hanwell to Heathrow.

On the Heathrow map, which hasn't yet been updated for the Christmas upgrade, there has been a change in the bit-mapping on the Network Rail data feed causing all the signals to show incorrectly, although the berth values are correct.

I will be watching the trains later.

Yes, I agree with a single map being best and did suggest that to Peter Hicks.  That would mean three maps covering out as far as east of Didcot and each of roughly the right size - not too big and not too small.

I'm ridiculously happy that there's so much discussion around the maps I've put together!  Thank you to everyone who's commented here or emailed support@opentraintimes.com with corrections - I prefer to release maps quickly and get feedback from users then fix any problems.

There's a lot of work going on between Paddington and Reading - still - with Crossrail, and I've got tons to do to sort out the flyovers for the Heathrow lines, as well as fill the missing gaps around Southall.  I might manage to cover PAD-RDG (exc.) in a Paddington - Southall and a Southall - the rest map, but I won't know how complex it is until I come to do it!

Many thanks for your latest update here on the Coffee Shop forum, Poggs!  ;) ;D

Peter has been hard  at work and corrected the errors I reported in the Paddington map.

Also we now have West Ealing to Heathrow.

Happy viewing!

The Reading West to Heywood Jn map now incorporates down to almost Mortimer, with the adjoining Basingstoke map showing signal aspects as far as 'Green Park' as seen here (https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/swml2)

Note to mods: Just realised we have two similar threads running, this one and this one (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15702.0).
Just wondering if they should be merged?

I think a merger is called for. I wish I knew how to do it.

You should see a 'merge' button to the bottom right of the very bottom-most (or top-most) post in each thread.....

Not quite as simple as that, ChrisB - but no worries: I've now done the necessary 'moving and merging' of these topics.  ;) :D ;D

I'm not sure but Melksham might be unique in being the only station featuring on two maps.   It's on the Cholsey to Chippenham diagram and the Westbury one.

...Reading West, Earley

Oh well that blew that theory.

The Exeter map has been extended eastwards and now includes Cogload Junction and links with the Westbury map.

Not quite. There is a little bit missing at Somerton.

Gather the gap will be filled fairly shortly.

Also E93 at Athelney on the Exeter TD.

Now been added.

Also, more of the South West lines have been added with the Eastleigh, Southampton, Andover and Romsey areas now making an appearance

Still no E93 at Athelney though.

.....and the Royal Albert Bridge has gone back to double track (again).... ::)

A new map has been added covering the Gloucester area.  It now means the whole GWR route from London to Cheltenham can be viewed on opentraintimes.

As well as linking with the Birmingham to Cheltenham map northwards, it also covers down to Yate on the Birmingham-Bristol line and also to beyond Lydney almost as far as Chepstow on the Gloucester to Newport line - though Lydney station itself hasn't been drawn on the map for some reason.

Many thanks, as always, to Peter for his hard work in getting this latest map up and running.

I have spotted one anomaly (which I'll report on the OpenTrainTimes site also): on the approach from Kemble to Swindon 1321 and 1322 are transposed, with the effect that a train travelling towards Swindon on the Up Kemble passes through Minety LC and then mysteriously jumps the tracks to the Down Kemble. I have a feeling that has also been wrong on the Cholsey - Radley - Chippenham map since it went live.

More oddballs happening today (hot weather or the signalling failures?). I have seen conflcting routes/signal aspects at Thingley East Junction; also conflicting routes into the bay at Swindon.

Another oddity was many trains being displayed in two or three non-adjacent train describer berths simultaneously!

Yes, OTT seems more chaotic than the mess currently being experienced out of Paddington at the moment

I think there have been problems with the feeds the various sites use. (Not just OTT but also RTT)

I have seen trains apparently heading towards each other apparently leap-frog past the other train.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/1S55.png)

Also one very long Cross Country train occupying a stretch of track west of Taunton.

Maybe that's the answer to sorting out the single line problem at Melksham, currently being discussed on the transwilts board (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18431.0)  :)

bobm is spot on - there appears to be a problem upstream from OpenTrainTimes that's causing train describer (TD) messages to be processed slowly.  Consequently, we're getting them quite late and this is also affecting every other site using the Open Data feeds from Network Rail.

I've reported it, and hopefully somebody will fix it soon.  Many thousands of people rely on the maps and information in OpenTrainTimes each day.

I was certainly relying on the maps when stuck at Hayes yesterday. Told me very quickly that we had passed the last opportunity to cross to the still open down relief. Everything behind us on the down main was able to cross.

As we were waiting at Hayes & Harlington (TM had realised doors as we were fully platformed) I was able to provide both the driver and the TM with an overview of the area, with information from OTT Maps and industry sources. Between us we soon realised the most likely outcome for our service was to be authorised to pass signals at danger on the down main.

That we did after an hour's delay. Five signals  stuck at red, stopping at each one for authorisation to proceed, then back to green at Iver. Once on the move I updated the TM saying we should return to line speed after Iver. He was then able to PA the rest of the train with that information.

Just doing my bit! Thanks Poggs for an excellent resource.

Why couldn't they do this with the 15:49 last night?

Indeed, many thanks to Coffee Shop member Poggs for his excellent resource - and for his background input here on the forum.  ;)

Bristol Parkway to Newport map to be introduced tomorrow

Edit: As now seen here (https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/bristolparkway)

Nice little graphic between Bristol Parkway and Swindon

(http://i63.tinypic.com/34xkhmd.png)

I know the maps are schematic but isn't it only one loop that runs behind the platforms at Pilning?   Will have to dig my photos out.

Indeed - the up loop is before the station.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/pilnloop.jpg)


Photo taken from the now removed footbridge.

......and Patchway Junction is completely missing..... ::)

... and the stations don't yet have platform numbers.

But I'm sure Poggs will be along soon to rectify.  ;)

.... and so are Patchway station and Patchway tunnels. The station which should be positioned between berth for signal 1536 and 1526.

 Just watched 3X09 IEP test working  stood at signal 1526 when signal 1536 turned green and 2C67 occupied the berth for that signal thus giving the impression that 2C67 was going to rear shunt 3X09 but 2C67 disappeared so I assume Patchway Junction is at this position.

In the down direction headcodes appear in the berth for signal 1003 so I assume in the down direction Patchway Junction lies between signals 1003 and 1533.

Finally for my twopennyworth the berths at Bristol Parkway could be realigned to the platforms.

The Paddington map on OTT hasn't been updated yet, looks like Poggs is taking a bit of a break to work on projects that earn him money as there's been no updates since October.  Hopefully an update will follow shortly.  In the meantime, there is a void that up trains disappear into when they are approaching Paddington as a new signal section has been inserted, and the track layout is now quite substantially altered in the area.  The Railcam maps (which has a small annual subscription) have been fully updated.

...although RAILCAM hasn't yet caught up with the Bristol Parkway changes that happened over the xmas/new year break... ::)

Paddington map now updated with the Crossrail connection + signalling.

Also added are the missing SN** signals towards Greenford East; the new Up Main to Down Relief Crossover at Kensal Green; the new Up signal (SN126) on the Down Relief at Kensal Green; the signalling changes at Royal Oak sidings - however Poggs has missed the new crossover into Line 6 prior to SN26.

Now that would be an interesting flyover!  I think you mean Line 1 not Line 6.  It's the re-instated P8009.  These points got removed after the resignalling that re-instated Ladbroke Grove, because the steam-8086-powered SSI didn't have enough capacity for both the additional signalling protection at Ladbroke, and all the routes from platforms 2-5 to Royal Oak Sidings.  Now that the interlocking has been re-platformed (ho ho!), there's enough space and processing capacity to have these back again.

I certainly did mean Line 1 - had Line 6 on my mind for some reason.

If you want to see a OTT work of art - I suggest you look at the new London Bridge map on the Kent area maps.

Latest update includes route indications at Didcot Parkway and the surrounding area.  Hopefully route indications at Reading (and Oxford when it’s resignalled in July) will follow as they are most useful.

An alternative I've started using, covering the whole UK, is:

https://traksy.uk/live

I really hope this is an "indications" failure and not the situation at Thingley Junction....

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/thing.png)

I think RTT has gone out of step (pun intended) with the TD database.  The TD maps on RAILCAM seem to be OK.

Latest addition to the Open Train Times map family is the area from Bristol Temple Meads down to Cogload Junction (exclusive)

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/bristoltm (https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/bristoltm)

......and the resignalled Oxford area: http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/oxford

Just in time for it, and then the adjacent Parkway map, to need updating when Filton bank gets, yes you guessed it, four-tracked!

Hopefully the platform numbers at Bristol Temple Meads will be added soon.

When is the Bristol map being updated to include the filton bank, Also the whole seems to have gone wrong, Hurry up soon.

now done.

If it cheers you up, here is a video of someone driving a potty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACWhm_8lmY

Filton bank is now on opentraintimes, but with some errors on.

Also seen a train stuck on down Kemble not moving, is this an error with the site?. 6Z64.

I see the Severn Riviera Line and the Henbury Loop has its own map on the above site under the Avonmouth Area banner.

Good to see route indications have now been added to the whole of the Reading map on OTT.  The were previously only shown for platforms 4-6.  Quite an undertaking I should imagine given the complexity of the layout - hopefully Paddington will follow on at some point soon.

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/reading#LINK_3

Yes.  Spotted a few errors where alternative routes from a signal to a destination get a bit muddled up, but guess thats due to data limitations.

Route indications now added to the Paddington<>Ladbroke Grove area of the Paddington map.  I reckon he GWML is the most comprehensively covered route in the country on there now.

Apart from Cornwall which seems to end at Liskeard!

It does end at Liskeard.  In terms of data that online mapping systems can use anyway!  Semaphore and Absolute Block signalling are of little use in that regard I’m afraid, and the reason station PIS systems are often inaccurate when the service is disrupted.