Great Western Coffee Shop

I believe Cross Country uses an HST on its Leeds to Plymouth route.  If the interior of the carriages has been refurbished in XC style, does that mean that XC seating has replaced the typical, First Great Western HST seating. I travelled on Saturday on what I take to be a Voyager (the 12.00 from Taunton to Paignton) and found the seats narrower and less comfortable.  Is there any advantage in terms of comfort in catching an XC HST?

AS I recall, the seating in the XC HST is old-style - i.e. the seats FGW had before the first refurb. They've been re-cushioned I think, but the seating remains, so lower backs, proper arm-rests.

XC HSTs have the same seating as East Coast HSTs. IC70 seating (lower backs, fixed armrests) were replaced shortly after XC took them on. The only HSTs that still have IC70 seating are Grand Central and East Midlands trains HSTs.

In answer to your question regards comfort Voyager vs HST - no comparison, HST every time IMHO. I fully expect some displaced HSTs from GW and East Coast will end up back running more XC services again as a stop gap until more of the lines used by the XC network are electrified. When that happens I shall start using XC again rather than going via London when travelling North.

Here's an image of the CrossCountry HST seating:

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7017/6476007167_5dc2ddf35f.jpg)

Other rolling stock that still has original InterCity IC70 seating is Greater Anglia's electric loco hauled Mk3s, Arriva Trains Wales' diesel hauled Premier Service, and the seated carriages of First Great Western's Night Riviera.

I travelled on an East Coast IC225 set recently, presumably these the same seating as the XC HST bignosemac posted (and the East Coast HSTs). I found my knees started to ache after a while, the seat seems to slope away not offering much support under the legs.

On the positive side the backs seem lower than the "tombstone" style seating used by FGW HSTs?
(offering slightly better views out of the windows & being able to see where the spare seats are when boarding)

Indeed, XC's IC125s have 7 coaches versus just four or five (with alot of space lost on cabs and accessible toilets) on a single Voyager. And didn't XC get rid of the hybrid coach (standard class 2+2 seating but all seats at window-aligned table bays like in first) on their Voyagers? That hybrid coach actually gives a better view than a Pendolino does I think, although I find the Voyager seats to be a poor shape.

I don't think the ATW premier service (also known as 'Y Gerallt Gymro' or 'Gerald' for short) has IC70 seating, unless IC70 is the first class seating. Standard class on Gerald is mrk3 coaches with the same seats as the refurbished ATW class 158s (I think they are called Grammer seats). Perhaps you are thinking of the mrk2 stock formerlly used for Gerald standard class, which did have low-backed seating if I recall correctly (but did mrk2s use IC70?).

I was referring to the 1st Class variant IC70s for ATWs Premier Service and FGW's Night Riviera seated coaches. The latter is of course available to Standard Class ticket holders.

My thanks to everyone who has replied today - Chris B, Timmer, bignosemac (for his photo), Fourbee and Rhydgaled.  It's very clear which train seats you prefer.

Are the benefits of travelling on an HST negated by the fact that, being a CrossCountry train, the seats won't all line up with the windows in standard or first class, and is it ever possible to predict which side of the carriage they will be on?  I would only be making a short journey from Taunton to Newton Abbot but it's always thrilling to be as close as possible to the sea wall from Dawlish to Teignmouth.

Now there I would offer a completely different view, Eliza. ;) :D ;D

Last time I went down to Devon on the train, I quite deliberately chose a seat with a view opposite that traditional one. ::)  I was really impressed and fascinated by the clear evidence of all the engineering work done by Network Rail on the various rock structures and cliff faces along that length of line.

Hi, Chris from Nailsea.  I am sorry that a wire mesh, metal fence has been erected in places along the trackside (to prevent rock falling on to it?), as it detracts from the wild, picturesque aspect of the cliffs.  I presume it's there to stay. 

From my experience (travelling a few times, and gazing out of my office window at the trains coming and going at Derby station), the First-Class in the XC HSTs is almost always at the Plymouth (South) end of the train.  This means that the seats with the sea view are the "+1" in the "2+1" layout.

Thanks, rower 40.  I hope you wave at the people in the trains from your office window.

The hybrid coach was added by Virgin WC after the split from XC to provide more first class seating when used on Holyhead services as 10 cars, XC Voyagers have never had them.

Ah, ok. I didn't realise that. I assumed the hybrid coach (like the abundance of accessible toilets) was a hangover from Virgin's plans to have three classes rather than just first and standard.

I think this is the norm - First Class leading southbound (and trailing northbound). On normal diagrams the HSTs don't reverse en route and so are mostly the 'correct way round'. Weekend engineering work may sometimes cause then to be reversed, but I struggle to think of any diversionary routes that require a reversal - even going via Gloucester, Newport and then Parkway puts the sets 'right' way from Bristol Parkway southwards. Via Leicester, via Lichfield, via Doncaster instead of Leeds, via Worcester (going direct via Bromsgrove or via Smethwick West and Stourbridge), even via Westbury doesn't reverse the train. Remember the HSTs only run Glasgow / Dundee / Edinburgh via Birmingham NS to Paignton / Plymouth / Penzance and not to the South Coast. In BR days allmost all HSTs reversed at Gloucester meaning First was at the correct end (southern end) north of Gloucester, and eastern end south of Gloucester thus matching the same locations on platforms as GW InterCity trains and East Coast InterCity trains.

Hmm. I'm actually rather pleased that metal mesh fencing has been installed, Eliza, and I hope it is indeed there to stay.  :-X

The consequences of an unwelcome boulder falling onto the railway track can be very serious: for example, see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=6881.0 and http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13564.0

I think you will find that vegetation will soon overwhelm the mesh, rendering it invisible - it is certainly already doing so at the Teignmouth end .

Thank you, brompton rail, for that information.  As always, on this forum, the quality and the detail is unparalleled.

You are quite right, Chris from Nailsea, that the consequences of a rock or other object falling on the track can be devastating.  It's just that I mourn the immediacy and excitement of being so close to the cliffs that has been lost.  But, as PhilWakeley says, the fence will soon be obscured by vegetation.

If a set enters service in reverse it's generally kept that way for the whole diagram to save any associated delays en-route, particularly if the empty stock movement at the end of the day can be used to turn them, a few routes that spring to mind where a train may turn for engineering / train fault reasons on the route are:
Motherwell (via Mossend and Holytown), Edinburgh Suburban line, Newcastle High Level Bridge, York to Leeds via Castleford, Sheffield to Chesterfield via Beighton, Chesterfield to Derby via the Erewash Valley, Birmingham to King's Norton via Camp Hill, Gloucester to Bristol via the tunnel (calling Filton vice Parkway).
Not an exhaustive list, but ones I can think of that XC drivers sign, there are  few more north of the border but they's need route conducting.

You are dead right. Newcastle Central - reversing by coming in or going out southwards over the High Level Bridge - is a popular one. Also used by East Coast for reversals, and if there is a reason why an HST should run in reverse formation, like a defective speedometer or windscreen wiper. The advantage is that it barely adds any time to the running.

There's one schedule for a Northbound Voyager, which splits at Newcastle, with the "rear" unit continuing to Edinburgh.  This goes "round the houses" (i.e. turns right at King Edward Bridge South Junction, left at Greensfield Junction, then over the High Level Bridge and into Newcastle station from the east), so that the rear unit, after reversal, can continue to Edinburgh.

Indeed. The ' front' Voyager unit is attached at Temple Meads, the Plymouth unit attaches to the rear of this unit.

Result: a through Voyager Plymouth to Edinburgh which is strengthen by another Voyager between Bristol TM and Newcastle. I was told by a XC conductor at New Street that there aren't any reservations in the front set. It was less busy than the rear set certainly. Fully staffed with catering in Standard and First. 15.03 north from Birmingham.

It appears that the remaining set then attaches to the 18:46 from Reading before continuing as the 19:35 to Birmingham once again via the back way.