Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => South Western services => Topic started by: grahame on July 29, 2015, 15:30:02



Title: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on July 29, 2015, 15:30:02
http://onthewight.com/2015/07/28/cross-party-pressure-group-formed-to-secure-future-of-rail-franchise/

Quote
A new pressure group has been set up to help secure the future of the Island Line train service with a sustainable, reliable and viable service for the duration of the next franchise period.

A new pressure group has been formed to fight to keep Island Line train service within a wider regional rail franchise.

The Keep Island Line in Franchise (KILF) Campaign Group has been established after the future of the Island^s Ryde to Shanklin route has been threatened by a proposal to transfer it to a Community Interest Company.



Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: ChrisB on July 29, 2015, 15:32:18
Who's proposal, anyone know?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on July 29, 2015, 15:50:57
Who's proposal, anyone know?

Yes.













Andrew Turner.

http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/news/new-campaign-group-to-fight-for-isle-of-wight-train-service-86488.aspx


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: ChrisB on July 29, 2015, 17:17:15
How on earth does he expect a CIC company, based on the IoW, to be able to run/support the Island Line?

That ^40m is just the start....all hail the KILF, I say


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: JayMac on July 29, 2015, 22:23:45
Plenty of tube stock available if they want to replace the current 1938 stock.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: patch38 on July 30, 2015, 09:46:10
Nooooo! The 485/486 (4VEC and 3TIS - see what they did there?) stock is part of the very fabric of the Island  ;D

Mind you, BNM is right: plenty of more youthful replacements available.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on June 19, 2018, 16:57:06
It just struck me that with all the talk of more hand-me-downs for the Isle of Wight, why not bite the bullet and add a run-on of a few more trains to the next newbuild tubes?    Statement suggests that costs are reduced by doing a big standard run

http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/tfl-hires-siemens-to-build-94-next-generation-tube-trains-for-the-piccadilly-line/

This is totally unscientific to provoke discussion.   I have not added an O2 option though.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: JayMac on June 19, 2018, 17:48:36
Can the new trains be adapted to shorter lengths though.

Modern tube stock design is geared to fixed formation fully open walk through. The traction package is designed for the required length too.

I don't think it would be as simple as just paring down a full length train to 2/3 carriages length required by Island Line.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on June 20, 2018, 09:01:07
Class 230s?  Possibly battery.

I believe one of the problems with using full sized trains is the restricted tunnel in Ryde. Would require gauge enhancement.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: ray951 on June 20, 2018, 09:54:31
This London Reconnections article is worth reading about the future of the Wight line.
https://www.londonreconnections.com/2018/third-ryde-tube-transfer-troublesome/ (https://www.londonreconnections.com/2018/third-ryde-tube-transfer-troublesome/)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 20, 2018, 10:30:51
The trouble is there are numerous problems to overcome (both financial and technical) with all the potential solutions.  The quality of ride is shocking, especially at the southern end, so I feel the best way forward would be to do a proper job rather than a sticking plaster one with old D Stock or Piccadilly Line trains.  That would suggest re-laying most of the track, removing most if not all of the signalling, minor changes to the track layout so that a 20-minute interval service can operate, overhead electrification from Ryde St. Johns southwards and custom built trams that would operate on battery power between Ryde Pier Head and Ryde St. John's. 

Several new tram stops could be added at convenient locations in Ryde, and between Sandown and Shankling.  Indeed at Ryde you could consider an entirely new street section from Esplanade that removes the problem of Ryde Tunnel whilst taking trams through the centre of Ryde rather than the largely industrial area it currently passes through.

Who would pay for major works like that though?  It's unlikely that it would ever pay for itself, though there's no doubt in my mind that there is potential for significant growth to potentially reduce the losses.  Also, keeping the old trains going long enough to get those major works financed and built would be asking a lot.

I also like the idea of the steam railway somehow being able to share tracks through to Ryde.  Perhaps it could be the first tram/steam railway in the world?  ;)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Phantom on June 20, 2018, 10:55:09
...The quality of ride is shocking

I stayed in Sandown last weekend and had the misfortune of catching the "train" to Ryde.
I forgot how bumpy and rocky the service was, at one point a young lad was even thrown from his (sideways) seat with the motion of one bump

Even a horse drawn carraige would be an improvement to what they currently have !


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Fourbee on June 20, 2018, 11:10:15
The fares on the buses seemed expensive to me (Shanklin - Ventnor was £6 return when I was on the island in 2016, which was 2 x £3 singles as they don't do returns). Currently you can travel Ryde Pier Head - Shanklin day return for £6.10.

Maybe if all those ENCTS holders had to pay Island Line would have a few more quid in it's pocket...


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on June 20, 2018, 11:55:25
I also like the idea of the steam railway somehow being able to share tracks through to Ryde.  Perhaps it could be the first tram/steam railway in the world?  ;)

I'm afraid the Germans have got there first. Nordhausen to to Ifeld 1897 Mallet tanks and 2005? ED trams which run onto the streets of Nordhausen.

Also Karlesruhr extensive tram train system I've run behind steam up one of the tram lines.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on June 21, 2018, 06:23:53
Can the new trains be adapted to shorter lengths though.

Modern tube stock design is geared to fixed formation fully open walk through. The traction package is designed for the required length too.

I don't think it would be as simple as just paring down a full length train to 2/3 carriages length required by Island Line.

I'll give you a definite "don't know" on that.   The latest trains for the underground (S7 and S8) are subsurface rather than tube and probably would not fit (nor would D trains). But i do note 6 slightly different formations, powered axles in all carriages, and pickup shoes on end and 2 centre cars with power being passed to neighbouring cars via cable in all cases except one on the 7 car varient.  Unless the train software is written around 4 pickup cars per set, a 4 car formation - surely - shouldn't be too much of a problem.   3 and 2 cars slightly more questionable as none of the longer formations have a drive motor car without an attached car with motors but no pickup shoes.

Examples ...
8 car  DM M1 M2 MS MS M2 M1 DM
7 car  DM M1 MS MS M2 M1 DM
4 car  DM M1 M1 DM
3 car?  DM M1 DM
2 car?  DM DM


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: ellendune on June 21, 2018, 08:03:33
I thought I had read somewhere here that VivaRail was being considered for IoW services and that it had been confirmed that they would fit the tunnel.



Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 21, 2018, 09:54:45
I thought I had read somewhere here that VivaRail was being considered for IoW services and that it had been confirmed that they would fit the tunnel.



You may well have done, but the article ray951 linked to (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19961.msg240124#msg240124) suggests otherwise. Worth a read!


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: didcotdean on June 21, 2018, 10:21:49
It also seems from that article and comments that the actual present-day situation regarding clearances throughout the route might be at variance with the 'received wisdom' and public domain information.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on June 21, 2018, 11:26:53
I thought I had read somewhere here that VivaRail was being considered for IoW services and that it had been confirmed that they would fit the tunnel.



You may well have done, but the article ray951 linked to (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19961.msg240124#msg240124) suggests otherwise. Worth a read!

Interesting article perhaps we should look to Stadler who produce many types of units for in particular Swiss narrow gauge. Many seem to be one off variants of standard types produced in small batches.

Like the idea of NSE total route modernisation.

The main problem will still be cost and who pays.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on January 13, 2019, 07:27:10
From Journeycheck

Quote
Due to vandalism of railway equipment between Ryde Esplanade and Ryde St Johns Road the line is closed.

What's Going On:
Train services running through these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 10:00 13/01.

What We're Doing About It:
We have been informed of damage to a train and to a signal box on the Island Line between Ryde Esplanade and Ryde St Johns Road due to vandalism. Police are currently in attendance but until they have completed their investigations services will only run between Shanklin and Ryde St Johns Road.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Chris125 on April 30, 2019, 21:01:27
Gauging professional Gareth Dennis has had a look at the data and is confident 230s should fit Island Line - https://twitter.com/GarethDennis/status/1121055592171356161

Quote
"...the dynamically modelled Class 230 vehicles "fit" (i.e. can be gauge-cleared) without a problem.... A little cosy here and there, but the only thing stopping them running is the Solent!"


"The tunnel is flatly not an issue. Platform gauging always requires a bit of work, and there are two minor overbridges that get tight enough to warrant a closer look, but not a thing that would worry me, and I have to live and breathe this stuff."


"(and I ran this using data that precedes the recent physical work that "may or may not" have been done to make sure they definitely fit anyway)"


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: johnneyw on September 08, 2019, 11:24:58
There's been an announcement about an announcement! The Keep Island Line in Franchise Facebook page is saying that after months of delay upon delay, an announcement is due this month on the Island Line. Without giving anything away, the poster sounded quite upbeat. One of the replies on the same thread said that even with the current political turmoil, a decision had to be made because the 80 year old rolling stock would not last that much longer (quelle suprise).
Anyone offering odds on Class 230s?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: johnneyw on September 13, 2019, 21:32:14
Interesting comment today on the Keep Island Line in Franchise Facebook page regarding reports of recent visits by Vivarail staff to the line. It's not from an official source but seeing there was already this thread, I thought I'd add it here rather than start a new one in the Rumour Mill.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bradshaw on September 16, 2019, 11:30:14
Vivarail to supply five 2-car EMU’s to replace current trains. Testing starts next year and there will also be track improvements, including a passing loop at Brading to allow a 30 minute service

https://onthewight.com/new-trains-coming-to-the-isle-of-wight/

See also

https://twitter.com/paulcliftonbbc/status/1173537398799683584?s=21


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on September 16, 2019, 12:02:05
From that link

Quote
Today (Monday) there’s good news for the users of Island Line. New trains are coming to the Island.

As anyone who has ridden the Isle of Wight’s train service knows, the trains that run between Shanklin and Ryde pier head are old. Really old.

The trains and carriages first came into service in 1938 on London Underground’s Tube. They’re so old in fact that they’re older than some of the wagons that run on the heritage Isle of Wight Steam Railway.

Five new trains

Today it’s been announced that the company Vivarail has been selected to build five new trains to run on the Isle of Wight.

The first two-car train is expected to arrive on test in early summer 2020, with track improvement works due to take place over the winter of that year.

The proposals were developed in partnership with key stakeholders on the Island, including Isle of Wight Council and Solent Local Enterprise Partnership. They have agreed to jointly contribute £1 million to fund a new passing loop at Brading, helping to deliver an even interval half-hourly service to the pier.

As a clarification, I suspect the "new" trains are refitted / refurbished D76 underground stock ... but never the less, this seems to be good news. 


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bradshaw on September 16, 2019, 13:07:29
Yes, they are the refurbished LT D78 stock and will be 3rd rail powered.


Apologies, my mistake; now corrected


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 16, 2019, 13:15:10
Yes, they are the refurbished LT D76 stock and will be 3rd rail powered.

Strange, as the Press Release says D78 stock (which is what I thought they are)......

Quote
In trainspotting circles, they’re called D78 Stock. Originally manufactured during 1980 by Metro Cammell, Vivarail take the trains, install electric motors and fit it out the D78’s aluminium bodyshells with new interiors – with can feature modern-needs such as phone charging.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: JayMac on September 16, 2019, 13:59:03
Former D78 London Underground stock, to be known as Class 484 on the Isle of Wight.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: eightonedee on September 16, 2019, 19:27:28
My goodness it's taken them a long time to make the blindingly obvious decision!


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 16, 2019, 21:18:25
My goodness it's taken them a long time to make the blindingly obvious decision!
I suspect ooooooooozz gonna pay for it was behind the delay in getting towards today’s announcement. Pleased for Vivarail.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 16, 2019, 22:07:44
My goodness it's taken them a long time to make the blindingly obvious decision!

That's presumably because they've followed the GTFBORID* process, recently tested to near-destruction in Portishead...

*Governance for Taking Forever to make Blindingly Obvious Railway Investment Decisions


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: johnneyw on September 16, 2019, 22:57:44
I've read that battery options were not taken up for two reasons:

1. Service every 30 minutes apparently doesn't give sufficient battery top up time.
2. Recent replacement of some of the 3rd rail means it was seen as worth keeping.

Source from the Keep Island Line in Franchise, Facebook page. Announcement 16 Sept (and subsequent comments and replies).


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on September 17, 2019, 16:51:19
From tomorrow the usual service of two Island trains an hour will be replaced by an hourly service "until further notice" according to SWR Twitter.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bradshaw on September 17, 2019, 19:08:52
From SWR Journey Check
Quote
  Alterations to services between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin
Due to a shortage of trains because of extra safety inspections between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin fewer trains are able to run on the line.
What's Going On:
Train services running to and from these stations have been reduced to an hourly service. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 20/09/19.
What We're Doing About It:
The hourly service will begin from tomorrow, Wednesday the 18th of September. We will return to our normal two trains an hour timetable as soon as possible, but the age of these trains and the difficulty in securing replacement parts means this may take longer than normal.
The hourly service will connect with the ferries at Ryde Pier Head (xx:18 departures from Shanklin and xx:49 departures from Ryde Pier Head).


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: onthecushions on September 20, 2019, 11:56:15

Announcement:

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/new-trains-and-passing-loop-confirmed-as-future-of-island-line-revealed/

OTC


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on October 21, 2019, 14:21:24
From tomorrow the usual service of two Island trains an hour will be replaced by an hourly service "until further notice" according to SWR Twitter.

Back to 2 trains per hour

From onTheWight (https://onthewight.com/island-line-trains-returns-to-two-per-hour/)

Quote
Island Line Trains returns to two per hour

South Western Railway say keeping the 1938 ex-London Underground trains going is a difficult task, but following hard work by the team at the train care depot at Ryde St John’s, the second train is now back in action

For just over a month, Island Line Trains has been operating only one train per hour after a safety issue was discovered on one of the trains.

South Western Railway have confirmed to OnTheWight that from this morning (Monday) two trains per hour are now back in operation.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: CyclingSid on October 22, 2019, 07:17:43
Quote
but following hard work by the team at the train care depot
would be good members of a heritage railway?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: onthecushions on October 22, 2019, 20:29:08

Much of the Steam Railway's motive power is younger than the SWR Tube stock.

Which one is the heritage railway?

OTC


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Robin Summerhill on October 23, 2019, 14:30:41
Quote
but following hard work by the team at the train care depot
would be good members of a heritage railway?

Given that the stock they are operating with is over 10 years older than the class 2 2-6-2Ts the IOWSR are using, you could say that they are already a heritage railway


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 01, 2019, 08:19:39
From Island Echo (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/island-line-trains-terminating-at-ryde-esplanade-due-to-third-rail-fault/?)

Quote
Island Line trains are unable to serve Ryde Pier Head this morning (Friday) due to a fault with the electric third rail power system.

Services between Ryde Esplanade and Ryde Pier Head have been suspended until further notice whilst engineers investigate the issue.

Trains are running as normal between Ryde and Shanklin.

Disruption is expected until 10:00.

The news comes just days after waves started crashing over the top of the Pier, resulting in sparks flying and the fire service being called out.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 09, 2019, 20:11:25
From Island Echo (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/island-line-disruption-expected-to-continue-into-next-week/)

Quote
Island Line is expected to run a reduced hourly timetable until at least 17th November, it has been announced.

A fault with 1 of just 2 trains operating on the Island Line network means that there is now just 1 train running between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin.

This reliance on a single train – which is over 80 years old – has seen the service suspended in its entirety at least twice this week. The whole operation hangs in the balance.

Got themselves in a right mess, haven't they?  Cancellation rates seem to have reached the sort of levels of motive power substitution we see with steam excursions ... surely you need a spare train - 3 for a 2 diagram service?  Can they borrow "Calbourne"?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 11, 2019, 19:36:49
It gets worser ...

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/island-line-suspended-again-as-ageing-train-fails/

Quote
Island Line services have been suspended this afternoon (Monday) as a result of a fault with the only train running on the network.

South Western Railway has confirmed that no trains are currently operating between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin. Disruption is expected to last for the rest of the day.

The news comes just before children leave school for Monday, many of which use the East Wight train service to get home.

Today’s suspension of service is the latest issue to hit Island Line. There are just 2 trains normally available for service on the network, but 1 has been out of action since September. The entire service is now reliant on the last remaining train – which is over 80 years old – but that keeps breaking down.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 13, 2019, 07:56:30
From On the Wight (https://onthewight.com/island-line-staff-will-not-be-striking-despite-whats-reported-elsewhere-says-rmt-spokesperson/)

Quote
A spokesperson for the RMT Union on the Isle of Wight has today confirmed to OnTheWight that Island Line staff will not be taking industrial action during December, despite other media sources saying they would be.

Island Line RMT members will be available and are expected to work during the strike period of 2nd December 2019 to 1st January 20120.

Online abuse directed at staff
The RMT Union spokesperson says they are disappointed that certain publications have chosen to publish incorrect information, which in turn has led to their members being abused online.

Let's hope they have a working train or two to drive.  Seriously, a strike on the island that shut the line down for the best part of a month would not be a good advert for its future.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on January 03, 2020, 00:08:33
From The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/02/isle-of-wights-rattling-rolling-charming-ex-tube-trains-face-end-of-the-line)

Quote
Isle of Wight’s rattling, rolling, charming ex-tube trains face end of the line

Passengers say change is sad but inevitable as time catches up with UK’s oldest train fleet

[snip]

Almost all the passengers the Guardian spoke to during a trip on the train expressed sadness at the prospect. Isle of Wight residents Ash and Sammy Butler were travelling with their son Codie, two, all of them Isle of Wight residents. “I love the quirkiness of it,” said Ash. “You can tell the locals from the visitors straight away. The locals know how to sway with the train. Visitors get bounced all over the place. It’s a bit like being on a boat.”

The trains may rattle but they are also lovely. The carriages feature wooden and brass trim. The livery is a deep red.

Kathleen Neil and her friend Barbara Snelling manoeuvred on to the train on their mobility scooters, helped by an attentive guard. “It is rickety but that’s the charm of it,” said Neil, who has being riding on the trains for almost 40 years. “We roll on and off all the time to go shopping and meet friends. We love it.”


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on March 02, 2020, 20:39:57
From on the Wight (https://onthewight.com/extension-of-the-current-isle-of-wight-railway-moves-to-the-next-stage/)

Quote
Isle of Wight Conservative MP, Bob Seely, is reported as having submitted expressions of interest to the Department for Transport last week to reopen two rail branch lines on the Island.

Isle of Wight Radio reported the MP was seeking a feasibility study to look in detail at:
* Extending Island Line from Shanklin to Ventnor
* Providing regular passenger services through Smallbrook from Ryde to Newport
The second option would be dependent on collaboration with the Isle of Wight Steam Railway (IWSR), who own the track.

Mr Seely said that most of the money needed for the feasibility study would come from the DfT, but that some extra would be needed to be put in.

The article goes on to introduce the complexity of sharing heritage and commercial operations.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: johnneyw on March 02, 2020, 22:04:21
and a little more about it from local IOW radio.

https://iwradio.co.uk/2020/03/01/54-years-on-we-could-see-the-restoration-of-the-isle-of-wights-railways/?fbclid=IwAR3w2jSoZQoMAnDkPO6kV-BRMZ-jhscFynGZJEJlQZHj0OGOHyZWzfRvTs8



Exclusive:
An expression of interest into re-opening two branch lines was submitted to the Department for Transport (Dft) on Friday (February 28), by the Isle of Wight’s MP Bob Seely – with the Isle of Wight Council’s support and involvement.
As previously reported by Isle of Wight Radio, last summer, the DfT promised to invest £26m to upgrade and improve Island Line.

Bob told Isle of Wight Radio the Expression of Interest letter was to look at routes that could be re-opened, including:
Extend the existing Island Line (Ryde to Shanklin) south of Shanklin to reach Ventnor.
Providing regular passenger services through Smallbrook from Ryde to Newport – although this would be dependent on collaboration with the IW Steam Railway that owned the track.
Bob said that this was the start of a process – the next stage was a competition for a feasibility study which would look in detail at these routes.
The report states “The council is “welcoming” the move and “will support proposals that increase travel choice and provide alternative means of travel to the car.”
Advertisment

A source close to Isle of Wight Radio says the expression of interest has been welcomed by the Solent Local Enterprise Partnership (Solent LEP).
MP for the Isle of Wight Bob Seely told Isle of Wight Radio:
“This is the start of a process to see if it is realistic to re-open any of the old lines on the Isle of Wight. We need more sustainable transport on the Island. Our roads are getting fuller.  Connecting Newport and Ventnor to Ryde would be a big boost for the Island. It’s early days yet, but I want to make sure that the Isle of Wight is at the head of any plans to reopen old lines. This is a huge boost for the Island in many ways. I will continue to see that the Isle of Wight is at the front of the queue.”
Until the 1950s the Island had a railway network of around 60 route miles, by 1966 only the Ryde to Shanklin route remained working -thanks to London underground tube rolling stock – which was electrified.
Isle of Wight Radio has asked the Isle of Wight Steam Railway and the Isle of Wight Council for a comment.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Ralph Ayres on March 03, 2020, 10:06:45
I'm not convinced this has been thought through, and it smacks of an MP looking to raise his profile without really having to do anything. The line to Ventnor for instance emerged from a difficult to maintain tunnel to an inconvenient station sited at the very top of the town. The steep hill means that it would never be practical to relocate it somewhere more useful, whereas buses can serve the whole place. Running services via the steam railway's track to Newport would be rather more complex than just "collaboration"; making it frequent enough and fast enough to be preferable to a bus would inevitably interfere with one of the island's main tourist attractions.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: johnneyw on March 04, 2020, 14:17:06
IOW Steam Railway has responded to the recent proposals:

'Isle of Wight Steam Railway says it is 'open to discussions' with the MP for the Isle of Wight.
However it 'has no plans' to extend the railway line due to 'financial and technical challenges.'


I recall an earlier proposal from another interested group which included looking at a (tram?) service from Ventnor to Newport.  If the IOW Steam Railway route is a non starter then Newport to Ryde is still ….. perhaps..... on the cards by that route? IIRC the proposal was based on the fact that the old route was sufficiently preserved to make this a possibility.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on April 05, 2020, 15:00:31
From Machinery Market (https://www.machinery-market.co.uk/news/26507/Vivarail-moves-manufacturing-base-to-Southam)

Quote
Midlands-based Vivarail, which is at the forefront of moves to develop emission-free trains, has agreed a deal for a new manufacturing base at Southam (near Leamington Spa) to help it meet a growing order book (www.vivarail.co.uk.

The company) is moving its main base from Long Marston to a refurbished 37,000ft2 unit at Kineton Road Industrial Estate.

A spokesman for Vivarail, which recently won a deal to supply five two-car Class 484 electric multiple units to South Western Railway for use on the Isle of Wight, said: “Vivarail is delighted with its new facilities at Southam and looking forward to establishing its new manufacturing base.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on April 13, 2020, 17:42:37
From Machinery Market (https://www.machinery-market.co.uk/news/26507/Vivarail-moves-manufacturing-base-to-Southam)

Quote
Midlands-based Vivarail, which is at the forefront of moves to develop emission-free trains, has agreed a deal for a new manufacturing base at Southam (near Leamington Spa) to help it meet a growing order book (www.vivarail.co.uk.

The company) is moving its main base from Long Marston to a refurbished 37,000ft2 unit at Kineton Road Industrial Estate.

A spokesman for Vivarail, which recently won a deal to supply five two-car Class 484 electric multiple units to South Western Railway for use on the Isle of Wight, said: “Vivarail is delighted with its new facilities at Southam and looking forward to establishing its new manufacturing base.


The new base is about 2.5km from the nearest railway line as the crow flies. Presumably they've checked the local roads to make sure they'll have no problems getting the carriages in and out on the back of a lorry.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bradshaw on April 13, 2020, 18:15:17
Might they not use the Daventry International Freight Terminal which is rail connected, but a few more miles away?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on April 13, 2020, 23:53:22
Might they not use the Daventry International Freight Terminal which is rail connected, but a few more miles away?

Quite possibly. I was just looking for the shortest distance between factory and railway. I wasn't really looking for an access point at that time.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: stuving on April 14, 2020, 10:25:56
Might they not use the Daventry International Freight Terminal which is rail connected, but a few more miles away?

Quite possibly. I was just looking for the shortest distance between factory and railway. I wasn't really looking for an access point at that time.

I doubt that distance is much of an issue; it's the time and trouble (and cost) of loading and unloading a low-loader that you avoid by being rail connected. But it's not clear what they are going to "manufacture" there - 37,000 sq ft is not very big: less that 60 m x 60 m so a big fraction would be taken up by just one 3-car train. 


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: johnneyw on May 23, 2020, 17:23:24
The Keep Island Line in Franchise Facebook page has added a Twitter tweet from Bob Seely, IoW MP, announcing that the IoW has been approved for development funding (feasibility study) looking at reopening railways to Newport and Ventnor.
Thought I post it here but it also possibly has relevance to the Coffee Shop wider current debates into the future of rail.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: ellendune on May 23, 2020, 17:33:36
A good place to post it but for the wider picture see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=23523.msg288841#msg288841 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=23523.msg288841#msg288841)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on July 14, 2020, 04:31:11
For today, from National Rail

Quote
There is a fault on one of the trains which runs between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin, resulting in a reduced service being in operation on the Island Line until approximately 16:00.
Trains will run as follows:
Trains will depart Shanklin at 18 minutes past the hour
Trains will depart Ryde Pier Head at 49 minutes past the hour

Additional information:
Additional maintenance is required to one of the Island Line trains, so there will only be one train available to run until approximately 16:00.

Not the first time ... the dangers of a very small pool of old trains, and the inability of anything to be temporarily transferred from a neighbouring line.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Fourbee on July 14, 2020, 12:59:39
Does the (2-car?) '38 in the London Transport museum still "work"  ??? ::)?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: eightonedee on July 14, 2020, 13:06:25
Why did I think of Go-op when I read Grahame' s post above?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: eXPassenger on July 14, 2020, 18:31:50
Does the (2-car?) '38 in the London Transport museum still "work"  ??? ::)?
Even if it did, how would you get it there?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on July 14, 2020, 18:44:37
Does the (2-car?) '38 in the London Transport museum still "work"  ??? ::)?
Even if it did, how would you get it there?

Take an individual railway carriage
Put it on a road vehicle
Put that on a Portsmouth - Fishborne ferry
Sail that across


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Fourbee on July 15, 2020, 12:48:16
The bogies travel on ahead of your main luggage sir :)
https://youtu.be/p5zkiA-g6wg?t=456
Nice and shiny NSE livery, better than the London Transport livery in my opinion.

They are going to have to do that process in reverse at some point!


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 16, 2020, 00:35:21
I note a very loose interpretation of the concept 'new'...


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on August 20, 2020, 17:51:28
From the Island Echo (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/no-island-line-trains-for-3-months-in-early-2021-confirms-south-western-railway/)

Quote
Island Line trains will not operate between 4th January and 31st March 2021 to allow for engineering works ahead of the introduction of new trains on the network, it has been announced.

South Western Railway has confirmed that for almost 3 months no trains will operate between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin whilst work is undertaken to transform the line, including the introduction of a new passing loop at Brading.

During the service suspension work will also be undertaken to improve the track, improve platform access and install new ticket machines.

Rail replacement buses will be in operation and a minibus will operate up and down Ryde Pier – which will be particularly important during the wet months.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: stuving on August 20, 2020, 18:29:09
There was a short piece on the "new" trains on South Today at lunchtime, with some pictures of them. It seemed rather short for the way it was introduced - maybe there'll be a longer one tonight (though that wasn't said).


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bradshaw on August 20, 2020, 20:40:36
Feature in the Islander Echo

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/no-island-line-trains-for-3-months-in-early-2021-confirms-south-western-railway/


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on August 20, 2020, 21:33:02
Seen reports that the first of the new trains will start test runs in September.    I’m there for a week next month. I might be lucky and see it!


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: CyclingSid on August 21, 2020, 06:58:09
Looks like the ferries will need better connections, as mentioned in the Islander Echo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-53832185 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-53832185)
Although it is Wightlink that operates to Ryde, but I would imagine they are in much the same situation.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on August 21, 2020, 18:28:49
Seen reports that the first of the new trains will start test runs in September.    I’m there for a week next month. I might be lucky and see it!
I thought the 'new' trains couldn't start running on the island until the infrustructure mods had been done, so assumed the 3 month shut down was to allow crew training as well as the infrustucture work (with most of the rolling stock testing being done on the mainland before hand). I could easily be mistaken though.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: stuving on August 21, 2020, 19:46:56
Seen reports that the first of the new trains will start test runs in September.    I’m there for a week next month. I might be lucky and see it!
I thought the 'new' trains couldn't start running on the island until the infrustructure mods had been done, so assumed the 3 month shut down was to allow crew training as well as the infrustucture work (with most of the rolling stock testing being done on the mainland before hand). I could easily be mistaken though.

Yes, that's exactly what has been announced about the closure. But presumably the new operators want to take their new toys out of the box to play with, even if it's only on a small part of the "network".


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Electric train on August 22, 2020, 08:08:42
Seen reports that the first of the new trains will start test runs in September.    I’m there for a week next month. I might be lucky and see it!
I thought the 'new' trains couldn't start running on the island until the infrustructure mods had been done, so assumed the 3 month shut down was to allow crew training as well as the infrustucture work (with most of the rolling stock testing being done on the mainland before hand). I could easily be mistaken though.

Yes, that's exactly what has been announced about the closure. But presumably the new operators want to take their new toys out of the box to play with, even if it's only on a small part of the "network".

I saw a photo on another forum of a Tamper on a low loader onboard a Wrightlink ferry, the comment was the first time in decades that they had transported one.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on August 22, 2020, 09:12:08
Interesting to look back to the early 1967 closure - from KentRail (http://kentrail.org.uk/ryde_esplanade_2.htm)

Quote
On 18th September 1966, Esplanade became the temporary northern terminus of railway, Pier Head having closed the following day for partial reconstruction to take place as part of the electrification scheme. Tube stock cascaded from the Northern City Line was destined for the truncated remains of the Isle of Wight Railway, and as a result, the platforms at the Esplanade were lowered to meet the floor profile of these trains. Conversely, at the other stations which were to remain open, the tracks were instead raised. As a measure against future flooding, tracks within the twin bores of Esplanade Tunnel were also raised. The Esplanade to Shanklin line temporarily closed to all traffic on 31st December 1966, to permit advanced electrification works. The line, including the stretch to Pier Head, re-opened with a new electric service on 20th March 1967

I wonder if the replacement trains can run within loading gauge already on part of the line - St John's Road to Shanklin, perhaps, and local familiarisation can start.  Without passengers, big step on and off the trains wouldn't be a problem during that phase.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on August 22, 2020, 10:49:02
Problem might be line capacity.  With the current timetable (and two serviceable trains running) I don't think you could fit a third train in.  Could run at night I suppose.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on August 22, 2020, 11:14:08
Problem might be line capacity.  With the current timetable (and two serviceable trains running) I don't think you could fit a third train in.  Could run at night I suppose.

Doesn't the line support a 3 train, 20 minute regular service, passing at Ryde St. John's Road and Sandown?  Lack of intermediate loop at Brading stops them running a 2 train, 30 minute regular service, hence current 20 minute / 40 minute cycle.

With a loop going in at Brading to enable a 30 minute service, is the loop at Sandown being retained?  Any reductions at St John's Road?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on August 28, 2020, 17:51:03
Quote
There is a fault on one of the trains which runs between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin, resulting in a reduced service being in operation on the Island Line.

Trains will run as follows:
Trains will depart Shanklin at 18 minutes past the hour
Trains will depart Ryde Pier Head at 49 minutes past the hour

Additional information:
Additional maintenance is required to one of the Island Line trains, so there is currently only one train available to run.

Been said before ... just 2 serviceable trains for a two train service is cutting it pretty darned fine, especially where another train can't be run in from elsewhere on the network.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on September 07, 2020, 08:03:56
From the Island Echo (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/no-monday-morning-train-service-due-to-vandalism/)

Quote
Island Line’s service between Ryde and Shanklin has been suspended this morning (Monday) due to mindless vandalism.

Those trying to get to work and school are having to hop onto bus services due to all services being cancelled.

Island Line was already down to just 1 train and was running a revised timetable accordingly. However, overnight persons unknown have graffitied the last remaining unit meaning that it has been withdrawn from service.

Until the graffiti can be removed the train will be unable to enter service.

Disruption is expected until 09:00.

A further reminder of the difficulty of running an isolated service with no ability to roll in a train from another line / pool.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on September 07, 2020, 08:33:43
Services starting to resume but still only hourly.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on September 16, 2020, 16:49:27
Quote
There is a fault on one of the trains which runs between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin, resulting in a reduced service being in operation on the Island Line.

Trains will run as follows:
Trains will depart Shanklin at 18 minutes past the hour
Trains will depart Ryde Pier Head at 49 minutes past the hour

Additional information:
Additional maintenance is required to one of the Island Line trains, so there is currently only one train available to run.

Been said before ... just 2 serviceable trains for a two train service is cutting it pretty darned fine, especially where another train can't be run in from elsewhere on the network.

Been a bit of a rarity in recent times - but the two train service has been running all this week so far.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowryr.jpg)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on September 16, 2020, 17:06:32
Been a bit of a rarity in recent times - but the two train service has been running all this week so far.

Could they usefully set up a captive breeding program and have a baby?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: eightonedee on September 16, 2020, 18:20:32
....I fear that they are now too old to breed successfully!


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Birdie100 on September 16, 2020, 19:04:52
Slightly off topic but it was a delight to ride on the old trains over the August Bank Holiday. I managed to use my downgraded Gold Card between Ryde Esplanade and Ryde St Johns (and benefit from the Gold Card discount for onward travel to Shanklin!) Was a wonderful experience to ride a tube train after what is now 6 months since the daily commute to London was drastically cut!


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on November 01, 2020, 20:28:19
From SWR Journeycheck

Quote
We have been informed that one of the two trains on the Island Line has been vandalised overnight. This meant that only one train would be able to run on the Island Line today. That train has now developed a fault, meaning there will be no service until further notice.

Roll on the ?new? trains. 


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 02, 2020, 04:47:10
From SWR Journeycheck

Quote
We have been informed that one of the two trains on the Island Line has been vandalised overnight. This meant that only one train would be able to run on the Island Line today. That train has now developed a fault, meaning there will be no service until further notice.

Roll on the ?new? trains. 

I can't help wondering where the basic principle of "you need to have a workable spare" has gone.  For a two train service, a third undergoing light maintenance able to step in seems prudent.  In an area like The Valleys, West Wales or Cornwall, the spare could be shared between lines.

I can't help but wonder at the three class 483 trains (at least) lying out of use at Ryde St John's Road - I suspect cannibalised for spares and I suspect there are certain parts in (very) short supply ... wondering if a third one should have been kept in service.  Indeed - run as a 4 coach train on the service that connects with the ferry when practical, to sort out the social distancing which has not been at all good on the pier!

With lockdown in November, and then the lead up to Christmas, I suspect that we're into the 'wind down' of IOW traffic for these trains.  I enjoyed my visit last month, and look forward positive to visiting again, perhaps next year, to travel on more modern and larger trains - both of those terms being relative, of course.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Electric train on November 02, 2020, 07:39:16
From SWR Journeycheck

Quote
We have been informed that one of the two trains on the Island Line has been vandalised overnight. This meant that only one train would be able to run on the Island Line today. That train has now developed a fault, meaning there will be no service until further notice.

Roll on the ?new? trains. 

I can't help wondering where the basic principle of "you need to have a workable spare" has gone.  For a two train service, a third undergoing light maintenance able to step in seems prudent.  In an area like The Valleys, West Wales or Cornwall, the spare could be shared between lines.

I can't help but wonder at the three class 483 trains (at least) lying out of use at Ryde St John's Road - I suspect cannibalised for spares and I suspect there are certain parts in (very) short supply ... wondering if a third one should have been kept in service.  Indeed - run as a 4 coach train on the service that connects with the ferry when practical, to sort out the social distancing which has not been at all good on the pier!

With lockdown in November, and then the lead up to Christmas, I suspect that we're into the 'wind down' of IOW traffic for these trains.  I enjoyed my visit last month, and look forward positive to visiting again, perhaps next year, to travel on more modern and larger trains - both of those terms being relative, of course.

The service is run on a shoe string, it's only revenue income is for a few weeks in the summer.  Lacks investment, technically NR own the infrastructure but its down to the TOC to maintain and operate it (although the electrical control is Eastleigh) and the trains; the only subsidy / investment comes from / via the Islands local authority


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Godfrey Tables on November 20, 2020, 09:59:13
From BBC News:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55006434

Quote
The Isle of Wight has taken delivery of its first "new" train for 31 years under a ?26m railway investment scheme.

Five refurbished former London Underground trains will operate on Island Line from May 2021.

The existing trains, built for the Tube system in 1938, have run on the route between Ryde and Shanklin since the late 1980s.

Island Line will close from 4 January until the end of March for track and platform upgrades.

The first of the five trains arrived by ferry at Fishbourne on Thursday.
<snip>




Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: TonyN on November 20, 2020, 11:46:29
They don't seem to be testing these on the Cotswold line before delivery  :)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on November 20, 2020, 12:11:50
They don't seem to be testing these on the Cotswold line before delivery  :)
Or anywhere on the mainland DC network, despite about 6 months of wishful thinking...

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Electric train on November 20, 2020, 12:18:11
They don't seem to be testing these on the Cotswold line before delivery  :)
Or anywhere on the mainland DC network, despite about 6 months of wishful thinking...

Paul

Possibly they do not have all the systems required for main land operation, doubt they have TPS, not sure they even have AWS; does Isle of Wright use LUL trip cock system?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on November 20, 2020, 13:23:49
They don't seem to be testing these on the Cotswold line before delivery  :)
Or anywhere on the mainland DC network, despite about 6 months of wishful thinking...

Paul

Possibly they do not have all the systems required for main land operation, doubt they have TPS, not sure they even have AWS; does Isle of Wright use LUL trip cock system?
Discussions elsewhere suggests the existing setup does use LU style trainstops/tripcocks, but they?re changing to something more normal, stated to be ?TPWS throughout? in the OJEU PIN for the work.  Does
?TPWS? always include AWS as well?

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: eightonedee on November 20, 2020, 14:03:43
Warning - daft suggesting approaching........

Seeing the picture of the train coming off the ferry form the BBC reminded me of the Portillo program I caught up with earlier this week featuring the train ferry between Messina/Sicily and mainland Italy.

How's about we start a train ferry to the Isle of Wight! Third rail both ends, "direct" IoW service to Waterloo, no need to spend a fortune on a bridge...

The trouble is, I guess the nearest convenient rail head with tracks to the dockside is at Lymington, wrong end of the island...back to the drawing board... ;D


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 20, 2020, 14:50:44
The trouble is, I guess the nearest convenient rail head with tracks to the dockside is at Lymington, wrong end of the island...back to the drawing board... ;D

Perfectly possible to get a 456 (only current 2 car electric units?) onto an Ugly Ducking and to link up from the jetty at Yarmouth to the old station there ... train to Ningwood, Shalfleet, Calbourne, Carisbrooke and Newport.  456 just about old enough to be considered for The Island.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/iows3.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/iows4.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/iows2.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/iows1.jpg)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: TonyN on November 20, 2020, 15:13:16
Having sampled the cakes at Yarmouth old station cafe I would alight there for Coffee and cake. Before proceding to the end of the line at Freshwater for lunch. ;D


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Clan Line on November 20, 2020, 15:43:38
Some moving pictures here.....

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/first-new-train-for-island-line-arrives-on-the-isle-of-wight/


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Electric train on November 20, 2020, 16:27:54
The trouble is, I guess the nearest convenient rail head with tracks to the dockside is at Lymington, wrong end of the island...back to the drawing board... ;D

Perfectly possible to get a 456 (only current 2 car electric units?) onto an Ugly Ducking and to link up from the jetty at Yarmouth to the old station there ... train to Ningwood, Shalfleet, Calbourne, Carisbrooke and Newport.  456 just about old enough to be considered for The Island.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/iows3.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/iows4.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/iows2.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/iows1.jpg)



Errrrrrrrrrrr what's wrong with Portsmouth Harbour Station ???


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 20, 2020, 17:36:02
Errrrrrrrrrrr what's wrong with Portsmouth Harbour Station ???

I think we had/have moved away from "serious" for a while  ;D ;D

Convenient tracks to the dockside in Lymington ... PMH ends up at right angles to the high speed cat which couldn't easily take a train and at some height, with lots of station and lounge stuff between the buffers.   Then when you get to Ryde ...



Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 20, 2020, 17:40:40
Having sampled the cakes at Yarmouth old station cafe I would alight there for Coffee and cake. Before proceding to the end of the line at Freshwater for lunch. ;D

I'm not sure there was a suggestion of opening that little tail end branch - but (continuing our light hearted Friday) that might be a Parry People Mover candidates - or light rail / tram on to Alum Bay and The Needles?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: eightonedee on November 20, 2020, 19:01:58
Quote
I'm not sure there was a suggestion of opening that little tail end branch - but (continuing our light hearted Friday) that might be a Parry People Mover candidates - or light rail / tram on to Alum Bay and The Needles?

No no no  - we should reinforce Hythe pier, put in a link to the re-opened (by then) Waterside branch to Fawley..... ;D


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Electric train on November 20, 2020, 19:18:36
They don't seem to be testing these on the Cotswold line before delivery  :)
Or anywhere on the mainland DC network, despite about 6 months of wishful thinking...

Paul

Possibly they do not have all the systems required for main land operation, doubt they have TPS, not sure they even have AWS; does Isle of Wright use LUL trip cock system?
Discussions elsewhere suggests the existing setup does use LU style trainstops/tripcocks, but they?re changing to something more normal, stated to be ?TPWS throughout? in the OJEU PIN for the work.  Does
?TPWS? always include AWS as well?

Paul

Another limiting factor against testing on the mainline is the third rail is the voltage.

The A, C and D stock is 630V rated, when the S -stock was  introduced LUL raised their system voltage to 750V.  NR system is nominally 750V but kept its inner London area at 630V to make it compatible for the D stock on the Richmond branch until the S Stock was introduced when NR raised all of its system to 750V.

The system is nominally 750V but under regen the third rail will rise to just under 900V, regen was not permitted in the inner London area due to the limitations of the D Stock.

I have not heard of any traction power system upgrade on the Island Line,


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: stuving on November 21, 2020, 00:08:12
I have not heard of any traction power system upgrade on the Island Line,

Nor had I - but then I found this, from earlier in the year, in Modern Railways (https://www.keymodernrailways.com/article/closures-confirmed-island-line-upgrade):
Quote
At Brading, where a passing loop will be reinstated to allow the operation of an even-interval half-hourly service, the track will be lowered by 500mm to meet double track foot-crossing and Persons with Reduced Mobility (PRM) regulations. The foot crossing on the Shanklin side will be used for Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) compliant access to the island platform. The track lowering is Network Rail?s responsibility and estimated to cost ?1 million; it is currently unfunded and unbudgeted and now subject to negotiations.

NR will upgrade the power supply at Rowborough and install new conductor rail with some of the existing inefficient negative earth return systems removed. Existing 98lb track will be relaid with 113lb, the whole line tamped to give a better passenger ride and Train Protection and Warning System (TPWS) introduced between Ryde St John?s Road and Sandown.

Note that Network Rail are doing most of the heavy stuff, since the lease to First MTR South Western Railway include maintenance but not major upgrades.

I also found some data on the electrical supply network of IoW, which includes the three NR substations (which are not described as traction supplies but look the right kind of lineside shed for that). This gives the rating of their 33kV supply circuits, but not the DC rating:

Ryde St. Johns Substation - 9MVA
Rowborough Substation  ? 15MVA
Sandown Substation ? 22MVA


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Electric train on November 21, 2020, 08:21:43
I have not heard of any traction power system upgrade on the Island Line,

Nor had I - but then I found this, from earlier in the year, in Modern Railways (https://www.keymodernrailways.com/article/closures-confirmed-island-line-upgrade):
Quote
At Brading, where a passing loop will be reinstated to allow the operation of an even-interval half-hourly service, the track will be lowered by 500mm to meet double track foot-crossing and Persons with Reduced Mobility (PRM) regulations. The foot crossing on the Shanklin side will be used for Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) compliant access to the island platform. The track lowering is Network Rail?s responsibility and estimated to cost ?1 million; it is currently unfunded and unbudgeted and now subject to negotiations.

NR will upgrade the power supply at Rowborough and install new conductor rail with some of the existing inefficient negative earth return systems removed. Existing 98lb track will be relaid with 113lb, the whole line tamped to give a better passenger ride and Train Protection and Warning System (TPWS) introduced between Ryde St John?s Road and Sandown.

Note that Network Rail are doing most of the heavy stuff, since the lease to First MTR South Western Railway include maintenance but not major upgrades.

I also found some data on the electrical supply network of IoW, which includes the three NR substations (which are not described as traction supplies but look the right kind of lineside shed for that). This gives the rating of their 33kV supply circuits, but not the DC rating:

Ryde St. Johns Substation - 9MVA
Rowborough Substation  ? 15MVA
Sandown Substation ? 22MVA


The MVA ratings will be max demand and not a constant load rating, traction loads being peaky in nature requires a high max demand

The typical rectifier rating the Southern Region install now is 3MW class G, smaller 1.5 to 2.5MW are rarely spec now, occasionally 3.5 or 4.25MW are installed.  I would expect there to be 2 rects per sub. (class G is the overload and duty cycle rating e.g. at 100% 150% and 300%)

I find it strange the sizing of Sandown compared to St Johns given the location of the Depot.  Depots have a high berthing load, also it is likely to have the depot domestic (400V) load.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on November 21, 2020, 11:03:19
The 484 units have new traction packages and AC motors as well don?t they?

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bradshaw on November 21, 2020, 13:05:44
It has already been out and about. This link from Twitter
https://twitter.com/photographyrue/status/1329959324777582592?s=21


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 21, 2020, 13:46:57
Blimey, that was quick!

SWR must?ve been really on the ball getting all the certifications ready beforehand.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: stuving on November 21, 2020, 15:39:17
The 484 units have new traction packages and AC motors as well don?t they?
Paul

Having heard the noise on the video (last post but one) - yes, you can hear the chopper.

As to whether it needs 750 V - I've only seen that said about the battery 230s. It's possible that charging off third rail was not seen as important enough to fit a DC-DC converter, so it could only charge off a voltage above the battery's. With no batteries, I'm sure everything has been designed for 750V, rather than have two versions for NR and LU. It will work well enough off 630V (or less), of course.

I guess the starting current will be a lot lower with the inverter than the old DC motors, though the peak current draw will now be at higher speeds.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: TonyN on November 21, 2020, 17:01:04
This must be the only source of power supply that Viva Rail have not tried yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AlndKQSs6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AlndKQSs6Q)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 21, 2020, 19:27:07
This must be the only source of power supply that Viva Rail have not tried yet.

There are one or two others ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/dtrainpower.jpg)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 24, 2020, 18:58:58
Here's a bit about the likely future prospects for the outgoing Class 483 units.  I wonder how the battery conversion on the unit not staying in the IoW will be done?

https://onthewight.com/class-483-train-1938-tube-wight-retire-essex-london-transport-traction-group-lttg/?fbclid=IwAR0HcCZSXyBPYtWuFLGOxh_1heoXTlKykkZlatJUXQZI-hIj2l2zRx27Kqk


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 25, 2020, 08:47:39
Here's a bit about the likely future prospects for the outgoing Class 483 units.  I wonder how the battery conversion on the unit not staying in the IoW will be done?

I believe the East Kent has some experience - including use of an old MLV or the Gatwick variant attached to the preserved unit to carry the batteries. Of course, these vehicles were designed along the same lines as the EPBs, CEPs, BEPs and HAPs and look good running with them.  Coupled to a tube they would look ... odd.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on December 05, 2020, 12:58:05
From the Island Echo (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/end-of-the-line-island-line-trains-likely-to-be-suspended-for-another-week/)

Quote
END OF THE LINE? ISLAND LINE TRAINS LIKELY TO BE SUSPENDED FOR ANOTHER WEEK

With just weeks left until they are pulled from service permanently, Island Line?s last 2 remaining trains have broken down and it may be over a week until the service resumes.

All trains between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin have been suspended since Friday morning when the last operational train ground to a halt.

As previously reported by Island Echo, maintenance works to the bridge at Ryde St John?s means that the service was always going to be suspended this weekend. However, the latest information available suggests that the trains will remain in the sidings until next Monday (14th December).

The 1930s former underground trains are due to continue running until 3rd January, when the line will then close for 3 months. New trains, which started to arrive on the Isle of Wight last month, will be fully up and running by May 2021. It begs the question as to whether the existing trains will come back into service at all?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 05, 2020, 13:00:32
It would be a great shame if they didn't appear in service again before it's too late.  I expect quite a few enthusiasts would have been hoping to ride and record them in action in the last couple of days.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on December 05, 2020, 19:30:53
I wonder if they will take advantage of the situation and do some daylight testing/training with the new unit?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on December 07, 2020, 18:01:06
I wonder if they will take advantage of the situation and do some daylight testing/training with the new unit?

Lots happening on the Isle of Wight at the moment - videos of 484001 running up and down the yard at St John's Road and a still or two of it in the platform.

Meanwhile, on Compton Beach (Southern Vectis route 12) from The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55212336)

Quote
Isle of Wight monolith: 'Magical' structure appears on beach

A monolith has mysteriously appeared in Britain - just days after similar ones were spotted in the US and Romania.

The unusual mirrored structure was discovered on the Isle of Wight, an island off the south coast of England.

Resident Alexia Fishwick said she "was dumbstruck" when she came across it during a beach walk on Sunday and described it as "really quite magical".

A monolith found in Utah last month created wild speculation on social media and apparent copycats.

I'm so glad they told us what the "Isle of Wight" is.   Seem less sure of the monolith. From the Utah one

Quote
Most observers reflecting on their trip to the mysterious monolith suspected it was left by an artist rather than an alien species.

And from the island

Quote
DJ Rob da Bank, another island resident, was also among those who took a stroll to see the sight for themselves.
He mused: "I'm not sure if it's aliens, a Coldplay PR stunt or a local mirror dealer drumming up trade, but it got us all down the beach anyway."


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on December 10, 2020, 10:28:26
It would be a great shame if they didn't appear in service again before it's too late.  I expect quite a few enthusiasts would have been hoping to ride and record them in action in the last couple of days.

It's been just 006 and 008 for a while, but it seems James Bond is riding to the rescue ...

Quote
No fanfare, but 007 appeared from the workshop at Ryde working under her own power for the first time in three years.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on December 12, 2020, 09:15:32
It is a bit ironic that after days of struggling to run any service, there is now an early finish to the day to allow testing of the new stock.

Quote
What's going on
Due to testing of our new Class 484 Units on the Isle of Wight, the train service will be closing earlier than normal on Friday 11, Saturday 12 and Sunday 13 December. Late afternoon and evening train services running between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin have been cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of Sunday 13 December.

What We're Doing About It
Due to testing of our new Class 484 Units on the Isle of Wight, the train service will be closing earlier than normal on Friday 11, Saturday 12 and Sunday 13 December.

The last train services to run will be:
- 17:49 Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin
- 18:18 Shanklin to Ryde Pier Head
- 18:49 Ryde Pier Head to Ryde St. Johns Road

Following this, buses will replace trains until the end of service. Please use online journey planners to plan your journey.

We are sorry for any inconvenience that this may cause.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on February 12, 2021, 14:27:09
From Island Echo (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/delays-on-the-line-trains-wont-be-running-again-until-mid-may/)

Quote
Island Line won’t re-open until mid-May due to a 6-week delay in the delivery of a major £26million upgrade of the network, it has been announced.

It was originally hoped that the Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin route would re-open at the start of April following significant improvements to the track, infrastructure and stations. However, South Western Railway (SWR) has today (Friday) announced that the COVID-19 pandemic has led to unforeseen challenges, leaving the project team no choice but to push back the line’s reopening by around 6 weeks.

When the line does re-open services will resume with the brand new Class 484 trains, although to date just 2 of 10 carriages have been delivered.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichardB on February 24, 2021, 12:13:32
A great story from the Isle of Wight County Press - another of the units seen on the motorway on its way to the Island

https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/19112722.isle-wight-resident-spots-island-line-trains-mainland-motorway/?fbclid=IwAR0BxMY39BSE3uhhsLbCsfL-xLJUvYjBbzN-rv6B3krxYPAvE8tX7AWPPpg


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on February 24, 2021, 15:41:43
There was a 484 unit (002) delivered by road to Eastleigh yesterday, apparently some (or all) of them are going to be doing mileage accumulation on the Fareham - Eastleigh line. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/linesidephotosuk/50974136356/

Route training took place a couple of weeks ago using class 20s.

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichardB on February 24, 2021, 17:53:07
There was a 484 unit (002) delivered by road to Eastleigh yesterday, apparently some (or all) of them are going to be doing mileage accumulation on the Fareham - Eastleigh line. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/linesidephotosuk/50974136356/

Route training took place a couple of weeks ago using class 20s.

Paul

Thanks for this info and the pic.  Look forward to photos of the trains on the Fareham - Eastleigh line. 


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on February 24, 2021, 20:22:01
There was a 484 unit (002) delivered by road to Eastleigh yesterday, apparently some (or all) of them are going to be doing mileage accumulation on the Fareham - Eastleigh line. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/linesidephotosuk/50974136356/

Route training took place a couple of weeks ago using class 20s.

Paul

Thanks for this info and the pic.  Look forward to photos of the trains on the Fareham - Eastleigh line. 

It’s not far from me at all, I might have to go for a walk near Botley or Hedge End if they show up on Realtimetrains at a suitable daylight hour...


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Fourbee on February 25, 2021, 07:19:42
There was a 484 unit (002) delivered by road to Eastleigh yesterday, apparently some (or all) of them are going to be doing mileage accumulation on the Fareham - Eastleigh line

https://www.flickr.com/photos/linesidephotosuk/50974136356/

Route training took place a couple of weeks ago using class 20s.

Paul

I knew about the class 20s, but your quote I've bolded now makes the whole thing clearer!


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichT54 on April 27, 2021, 16:27:19
SWR have issued a press release stating that the reopening of the Island Line will be delayed.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/news-and-media/news/2021/april/train-issues-delay-island-line-reopening (https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/news-and-media/news/2021/april/train-issues-delay-island-line-reopening)

Quote
Tuesday 27th April 2021

South Western Railway is disappointed to announce that, due to challenges with the delivery of the new fleet of class 484 trains, the reopening of the Island Line will be delayed.

Rolling stock manufacturer Vivarail had been set to deliver all the trains to the Island well before Easter, but complex software issues mean the fully refurbished trains are yet to be delivered. As soon as the trains can be delivered to the Island, SWR can begin the extensive process of operational testing, safety assurance and training required to bring them into service.

As a result, it is with regret that we will have to push back the reopening of the Island Line to later this summer. Given the complexity of the challenges we face, primarily with the software on the trains, it is too early to provide a firm date.

SWR and Vivarail are now conducting a full review to build a strong programme in which all parties can have confidence and will provide further updates on that programme in due course.

In the meantime, SWR is committed to keeping customers on the Island moving and has today pledged to double the capacity of the rail replacement bus service from 17 May, to match the capacity of the previously expected rail timetable.



Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichardB on April 27, 2021, 22:48:03
If you're quick, you can catch this really good report by Paul Clifton on BBC South Today - just after 12 mins into the programme.  Lots of great footage.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000vml1/south-today-evening-news-27042021


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichT54 on April 28, 2021, 08:59:03
If you're quick, you can catch this really good report by Paul Clifton on BBC South Today - just after 12 mins into the programme.  Lots of great footage.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000vml1/south-today-evening-news-27042021


Yes, that was a very interesting report. The shot of the raised platform leaving a large step down through the toilet door made me wonder how much headroom was left for taller people to get through!


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: stuving on April 28, 2021, 09:52:34
The people who originally designed those trains would be scratching their heads over this. "Software? What's that? What does it do that's useful? If it takes so long, is it worth all the trouble? It's not as if they are doing any of their other tricks like adding an engine or batteries. And we could have done both of those as well without all this messing about! ... ..."


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Clan Line on April 28, 2021, 09:52:45
If you're quick, you can catch this really good report by Paul Clifton on BBC South Today - just after 12 mins into the programme.  Lots of great footage.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000vml1/south-today-evening-news-27042021


Yes, that was a very interesting report. The shot of the raised platform leaving a large step down through the toilet door made me wonder how much headroom was left for taller people to get through!

Perhaps they are just going to put a trough in there  ???


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Alan Pettitt on April 28, 2021, 13:31:17
A little bit more info
https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2021/04/complex-software-issue-means-delay-to-new-trains-for-the-isle-of-wight.html


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 28, 2021, 14:52:11
An honest and frank apology from Adrian Shooter in that article.  Another example of where repurposing old trains is proving very problematic.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: stuving on April 28, 2021, 15:45:08
An honest and frank apology from Adrian Shooter in that article.  Another example of where repurposing old trains is proving very problematic.

Almost as bad as for new ones! I remember hearing a head technical guy at Bombardier saying pretty much the same thing about their software taking much longer to get finished than they had expected.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Electric train on April 28, 2021, 17:22:05
I have heard that part of the reason is Vivarail did not fully understand the nature of third rail traction current 


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bradshaw on June 10, 2021, 17:21:41
484001 has  being trialled through Ryde tunnel, being towed by a Unimog. It did get through!

See link below which will also lead to Facebook posts


https://twitter.com/martin466004/status/1402964242094084100?s=21


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on July 18, 2021, 09:47:25
This week 484001 made its first test run from Ryde St Johns Road to Shanklin.

Although I didn't get to see it on the move, I did spot it just outside the depot the following day possibly preparing for another trip

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iow484.jpg)

The test run was not universally welcomed as in the hours leading up to it several foot crossings were locked out of use.

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/railway-crossings-to-remain-padlocked-for-up-to-4-weeks/ (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/railway-crossings-to-remain-padlocked-for-up-to-4-weeks/)

All the station platforms are out of bounds, so getting a view of the work which has been carried out is not easy

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowshk.jpg)
Shanklin

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowrsj.jpg)
Ryde St Johns Road

A half hourly road replacement bus service is running.  Admittedly I was travelling just before lunchtime but there were only two of us on the bus from Shanklin.  We picked up two more en route.  The bus only stops close to stations at Shanklin, Ryde St Johns Road and Ryde Esplanade.  It is a bit of walk to connect with the bus at Sandown, Lake and Brading.  Tickets are not sold on the bus so many people are expected to buy their ticket when they reach the Esplanade if not joining at Shanklin and I am not sure how many do.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowbus.jpg)

There is also an hourly bus from Ryde Esplanade to Havenstreet to connect with the steam railway - you need to buy a Ryde to Smallbrook Junction ticket for that!


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Electric train on July 18, 2021, 10:00:47
Vivarail apparently have located the problem in the software on the trains and applied a fix ....................... testing will no doubt prove if they have or not


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: stuving on July 18, 2021, 10:06:13
Vivarail apparently have located the problem in the software on the trains and applied a fix ....................... testing will no doubt prove if they have or not

Ah - just the one problem, is there? If only ...


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on July 18, 2021, 11:06:24
Vivarail apparently have located the problem in the software on the trains and applied a fix ....................... testing will no doubt prove if they have or not

Ah - just the one problem, is there? If only ...
Wednesday and Thursday last week saw a number of daytime runs on the Fareham - Eastleigh line.  A number of videos have appeared on YouTube:

Fareham:
https://youtu.be/3wIrkqN73lg

Eastleigh/Hedge End:
https://youtu.be/mKgLOD30lzY

Eastleigh:
https://youtu.be/siHlmHV_P6k



Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Electric train on July 19, 2021, 12:58:55
Vivarail apparently have located the problem in the software on the trains and applied a fix ....................... testing will no doubt prove if they have or not

Ah - just the one problem, is there? If only ...

I did not say it would fix all the problems .......................


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on July 19, 2021, 14:53:13
Now rumours of another problem.

Suggestions the new trains won't run past the Esplanade and onto Ryde Pier

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/ryde-pier-toll-to-be-abolished-this-week-but-50p-added-to-fastcat-journeys/ (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/ryde-pier-toll-to-be-abolished-this-week-but-50p-added-to-fastcat-journeys/)

Quote
There has been some suggestion that Island Line trains won’t be running to Ryde Pier Head when services finally resume, which could explain today’s news, although an announcement from South Western Railway is yet to be made.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Ralph Ayres on July 19, 2021, 15:26:46
From the possibly unreliable memory of my younger days the (non-railway) pier used to be primarily for pedestrians, with just the occasional staff member's car.  Pedestrians gained access via the Esplanade station platform and I think the pier toll may even have matched the rail fare so you either walked or caught the train for the same price depending on timing. My family walked 4 abreast along the pier, excited to be arriving on the island. The gradual shift to encouraging vehicle access has resulted in pedestrians being made to feel quite unwelcome, confined to a narrow marked strip so that vehicles could drive faster, and even the seats/shelters along the pier barriered off.   This has unfortunately happened in tandem with the rail service gradually being run down so I suspect most locals now drive or are driven, a vicious circle that is likely to go round a second time if the convenience of catching the train straight to the ferry from other Island Line stations is lacking for much longer.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on July 20, 2021, 17:00:58
Now rumours of another problem.

Suggestions the new trains won't run past the Esplanade and onto Ryde Pier

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/ryde-pier-toll-to-be-abolished-this-week-but-50p-added-to-fastcat-journeys/ (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/ryde-pier-toll-to-be-abolished-this-week-but-50p-added-to-fastcat-journeys/)

Quote
There has been some suggestion that Island Line trains won’t be running to Ryde Pier Head when services finally resume, which could explain today’s news, although an announcement from South Western Railway is yet to be made.
Might be a 2+2 = 5 situation, from what I’ve read before the present contract only covers the platform overlay work at Pier Head, there is a separately funded NR project to overhaul the pier structure itself that was always planned to happen later.  So maybe there is another separate closure period planned - unless they can generally work from below…

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: GWR 158 on July 22, 2021, 18:02:55
Any news yet on when it's expected to reopen?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on July 22, 2021, 18:04:44
Any news yet on when it's expected to reopen?

Within the next year  ;D


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Clan Line on July 22, 2021, 20:57:38
Any news yet on when it's expected to reopen?

According to the ticketing system at  0635, St John's Rd to Pier Head, on 1st Aug 2021 !!  ::) ::)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on July 22, 2021, 22:26:29
Still pathed as a class 483 mins!   ;D


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on July 23, 2021, 11:23:31
The “on the Wight” website has a completely different story about the pier (compared to the earlier news in reply #118)  - based on questions to Network Rail this time, and much more positive:

https://onthewight.com/ryde-piers-railway-line-is-having-work-carried-out-on-it-heres-what-weve-found-out/

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on July 23, 2021, 11:26:27
Copied from other island line thread, as we seen to have a duplicate discussion:


The “on the Wight” website has a completely different story about the pier (compared to the earlier news in reply #118 of the other thread)  - based on questions to Network Rail this time, and much more positive:

https://onthewight.com/ryde-piers-railway-line-is-having-work-carried-out-on-it-heres-what-weve-found-out/

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: TonyK on July 23, 2021, 14:21:55
The “on the Wight” website has a completely different story about the pier (compared to the earlier news in reply #118)  - based on questions to Network Rail this time, and much more positive:

https://onthewight.com/ryde-piers-railway-line-is-having-work-carried-out-on-it-heres-what-weve-found-out/

Paul

It isn't often that an inspection by anybody, let alone NR, reveals that the condition of the item being examined isn't as bad as was assumed. Usually, there is a sharp intake of breath...


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on July 24, 2021, 13:58:27
The “on the Wight” website has a completely different story about the pier (compared to the earlier news in reply #118)  - based on questions to Network Rail this time, and much more positive:

https://onthewight.com/ryde-piers-railway-line-is-having-work-carried-out-on-it-heres-what-weve-found-out/

Paul

It isn't often that an inspection by anybody, let alone NR, reveals that the condition of the item being examined isn't as bad as was assumed. Usually, there is a sharp intake of breath...

It’s odd, but the whole project seems to have been a “pessimism magnet” for years. How many times have we read that the track is shot, the entire third rail power system is life expired, the trains won’t fit the tunnels, and lastly that the pier is about to fall over...  ???

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Electric train on July 24, 2021, 18:09:38

the entire third rail power system is life expired,


It was certainly in need of a lot of work doing to it, which it has now had


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on July 25, 2021, 11:48:42

the entire third rail power system is life expired,


It was certainly in need of a lot of work doing to it, which it has now had
I was thinking of suggestions a few years back in various places it would almost certainly be removed. Probably by battery fans, determined to force a prototype into use where it wasn’t needed…


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: TonyK on July 25, 2021, 13:55:41
I was thinking of suggestions a few years back in various places it would almost certainly be removed. Probably by battery fans, determined to force a prototype into use where it wasn’t needed…

My wife has a battery fan, which I think cost €1.99, and is practically useless.

On the matter of battery powered trains, I keenly await the entry into service of something battery powered, so we can see how it works in real life. Perhaps then, we can forget all about it, other than maybe for very short gaps in electrical feed, and move on to proving that hydrogen is no use for railway vehicles. I may very well be wrong, and will accept that with my customary good grace if and when it happens.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: mjones on July 25, 2021, 19:14:11
Hydrogen  may have a role, but its fans seldom mention that ~60% electrolysis efficiency x ~60% fuel cell efficiency means you are losing nearly two thirds of your energy.  There has to be a lot of "spare " renewable energy around to make that make sense. The technology should improve,  but is it really going to get up to say 80% for  both steps so that overall losses are lower than what you end up with?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on July 25, 2021, 21:13:07
Just when you thought it couldn’t get worse.

 https://www.islandecho.co.uk/flood-warning-in-force-as-a-months-worth-of-rain-falls-in-just-hours/ (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/flood-warning-in-force-as-a-months-worth-of-rain-falls-in-just-hours/)

Quote
Environment Agency (EA) officials say that the water level in the Monktonmead Brook continues to rise with a month’s worth of rainfall recorded in just 4 hours – a total of 55mm.

According to the EA, water could flow from the railway tracks into the main buildings at the Ryde St John’s train station depot. It could also flood outbuildings and plant and vehicles near Park Road.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 26, 2021, 17:14:06
Hydrogen  may have a role, but its fans seldom mention that ~60% electrolysis efficiency x ~60% fuel cell efficiency means you are losing nearly two thirds of your energy.  There has to be a lot of "spare " renewable energy around to make that make sense. The technology should improve,  but is it really going to get up to say 80% for  both steps so that overall losses are lower than what you end up with?

It is worse than that, Hydrogen for transport use needs to be compressed, and this also uses appreciable energy. Or possibly cooled to a super cold liquid which uses even more energy.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on July 26, 2021, 22:12:18
Things are looking up for Hydrogen, and without the need for a fuel cell,great performance from ice fuelled by gas alone,being developed beyond prototype by a British company that we've all heard of JCB.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wDKLoLUQgH0&t=14s


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: mjones on July 26, 2021, 22:44:23
Using hydrogen in an internal combustion engine is even less efficient than using a fuel cell. You would be lucky to get 20% of your energy back.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on July 26, 2021, 23:58:09
JCB would appear to be getting some very good results with a more efficient percentage.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 27, 2021, 03:35:09
I was thinking of suggestions a few years back in various places it would almost certainly be removed. Probably by battery fans, determined to force a prototype into use where it wasn’t needed…

My wife has a battery fan, which I think cost €1.99, and is practically useless.

On the matter of battery powered trains, I keenly await the entry into service of something battery powered, so we can see how it works in real life. Perhaps then, we can forget all about it, other than maybe for very short gaps in electrical feed, and move on to proving that hydrogen is no use for railway vehicles. I may very well be wrong, and will accept that with my customary good grace if and when it happens.

I am a little more optimistic about battery trains for both branch lines and for sections of main lines where electrification is problematic.
Whilst a practical test would be best, an ACCURATE forecast of the performance and usefulness of a battery train may be achieved as follows.
Take an existing EMU,  used on a route similar in line speed and gradient profile, to that proposed for battery power. Fit a KWH meter to measure the total energy used over a days operation. Assess the size of battery required to supply that many KWH, with a safety margin.
Allow for brief top up charges at the terminus.
Example the metered consumption of the EMU over a typical day was 1000 KWH.
Without any charging during the day, a battery able to supply 1000 KWH is needed in theory. In practice 150% of that figure would be prudent.

More complex example.
A days work consists of 5 return trips on a branch line. Each return trip uses 200 KWH. After each return trip there is a 6 minute layover with charging available at 250 kw.
Total energy used per day is 1000 KWH. But each  of the four 6 minute layovers gives a 25 KWH charge so the battery discharge is 900 KWH.

Even better would be to use for test purposes an existing DMU with ELECTRIC TRANSMISSION on the actual route proposed for battery operation. Fit KWH meters to measure the KWH used in a days work.

A purpose designed battery train should do better than a conversion.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Electric train on July 27, 2021, 06:59:49
I was thinking of suggestions a few years back in various places it would almost certainly be removed. Probably by battery fans, determined to force a prototype into use where it wasn’t needed…

My wife has a battery fan, which I think cost €1.99, and is practically useless.

On the matter of battery powered trains, I keenly await the entry into service of something battery powered, so we can see how it works in real life. Perhaps then, we can forget all about it, other than maybe for very short gaps in electrical feed, and move on to proving that hydrogen is no use for railway vehicles. I may very well be wrong, and will accept that with my customary good grace if and when it happens.

I am a little more optimistic about battery trains for both branch lines and for sections of main lines where electrification is problematic.
Whilst a practical test would be best, an ACCURATE forecast of the performance and usefulness of a battery train may be achieved as follows.
Take an existing EMU,  used on a route similar in line speed and gradient profile, to that proposed for battery power. Fit a KWH meter to measure the total energy used over a days operation. Assess the size of battery required to supply that many KWH, with a safety margin.
Allow for brief top up charges at the terminus.
Example the metered consumption of the EMU over a typical day was 1000 KWH.
Without any charging during the day, a battery able to supply 1000 KWH is needed in theory. In practice 150% of that figure would be prudent.

More complex example.
A days work consists of 5 return trips on a branch line. Each return trip uses 200 KWH. After each return trip there is a 6 minute layover with charging available at 250 kw.
Total energy used per day is 1000 KWH. But each  of the four 6 minute layovers gives a 25 KWH charge so the battery discharge is 900 KWH.

Even better would be to use for test purposes an existing DMU with ELECTRIC TRANSMISSION on the actual route proposed for battery operation. Fit KWH meters to measure the KWH used in a days work.

A purpose designed battery train should do better than a conversion.


The internal meetings I have been involved in regarding battery powered trains revolves around the impact charging has on existing electrification infrastructure. 

Traction power systems are designed with specific duty cycles based on traction loading of classic UK locomotives and EMU's   Some of the charging currents are mostly within the current capabilities of the system but the demand exceeds the duty cycle especially when a battery train comes off of a non electrified line into an electrified station / siding where the train turns round quite quickly.

This charging demand has to be added to the traction power demand for the existing timetable.

It is not impossible to resolve engineering wise, its just convincing the proponents of battery trains that addition investment and modifications need to be done to the existing traction power system, often a cost factor they had not considered


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 28, 2021, 01:42:26
For a short and relatively low performance battery train providing a through service from an electrified man line onto a branch, the battery charging demand is probably a small addition to the otherwise existing traction demand, certainly needs considering though.

Future electrification should certainly have some spare capacity built in, for either extensions, or for charging battery trains.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Ralph Ayres on July 28, 2021, 11:42:14
a short and relatively low performance battery train providing a through service from an electrified man line onto a branch battery trains.

...or from an electrified line onto a pier where maintaining a live third rail is distinctly challenging?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on July 28, 2021, 17:16:03
On the matter of battery powered trains, I keenly await the entry into service of something battery powered, so we can see how it works in real life.
a practical test would be best
There has already been a 'practical test' of a battery-powered train, and this article on the IPEMU trial with a converted class 379 suggests it was even used in passenger service (https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/independently-powered-electric-multiple-unit-ipemu-essex/). I'm not sure if it was ever tried out on a non-electrified route though.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 29, 2021, 06:20:03
I had forgotten about that trial, now some years ago. Sounds as though it went well, perhaps something similar could be used on the GWR line from Paddington, to some place just beyond the present limit of the OHLE, and then further afield as confidence is gained.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: stuving on July 29, 2021, 11:18:53
I had forgotten about that trial, now some years ago. Sounds as though it went well, perhaps something similar could be used on the GWR line from Paddington, to some place just beyond the present limit of the OHLE, and then further afield as confidence is gained.

There was a final report, which I found a while back, but I don't think it anything got onto the forum. I've posted something on the main IPEMU trial thread (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14408.msg309436#msg309436). That post also explains that the report is available on SPARK, which is accessible to anyone who goes through the registration process.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on August 02, 2021, 11:06:02
Quote
Disruption to replacement buses on Island Line
What's going on
Due to flooding between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin, replacement buses are unable to run.  Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

What We're Doing About It

We have been informed of flooding on the Isle of Wight, this means that our rail replacement buses in place for planned engineering works are unable to run.

For further information or onward travel advice please speak to a member of staff or use a station help point.

We are very sorry for any delay that this may cause to your journey.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Ralph Ayres on August 02, 2021, 11:24:51
Not the best thought-out explanation!  It now says the buses are delayed, not unable to run.  It's hard to see how flooding would have prevented all sections of the route being covered by buses, unless the flooding is particularly widespread or affects the bus depot, in which case why not say so? The Pier Head-Esplanade section would presumably have been a separate minibus, or even a locally-sourced 8 seater minicab, which you'd hope would have been unaffected.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichT54 on August 05, 2021, 13:42:06
There's an article on the BBC website about the recent flooding that affected the Island Line.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-58097095 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-58097095)

Quote
SWR said during the recent flash floods - when more than a month's worth of rain fell in two hours - water was 18 inches (46cm) above the track at Ryde St John's Road, Sandown and Shanklin railway stations.

Quote
It said newly laid ballast had been washed away from underneath sleepers and electrical, signalling and points equipment had also been damaged by the water.

In a statement, the operator said: "We had been aiming to reopen the Island Line in the first half of next month, but flash flooding has added uncertainty to our programme.

"We are sorry for the ongoing uncertainty for our customers and the communities we serve, and are working incredibly hard to reopen the Island Line as soon as possible."

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1607F/production/_119793209_mediaitem119793208.jpg)

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7A07/production/_119793213_mediaitem119793212.jpg)

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/C827/production/_119793215_mediaitem119793214.jpg)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on August 05, 2021, 16:08:33
The fact there are still only two of the five 484 units on the Island might also be a factor.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on August 05, 2021, 20:39:47
The fact there are still only two of the five 484 units on the Island might also be a factor.
At least two of the three at Eastleigh have been out and about recently, often overnight although not every path has necessarily been used.

I suppose it’s possible that all 5 can actually move…

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on August 24, 2021, 17:38:41
Another of the 484s has arrived on the island.

 https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1430186767014109190 (https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1430186767014109190)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on September 09, 2021, 15:42:51
As I write, (1542 Thur 9th), there’s a 484 on the pier, stopped short of the station.

https://youtu.be/UkmhN7P8U-4

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Phantom on September 10, 2021, 10:28:22
I stayed there last weekend, was gutted not to get on the new trains, especially as you could see them there ready to go


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on September 17, 2021, 16:05:04
From Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2021/09/two-london-underground-trains-have-found-a-home-in-south-wales.html)

Quote
The London Transport Traction Group and The Llanelli & Mynydd Mawr Railway have announced that two Ex-London Underground trains will soon become residents in South Wales, at the heritage railway located near Llanelli.

This is thought to be the first time that a tube train (1938 stock) has visited Wales and both groups say that they are looking forward to working together.

The London Transport Traction Group was originally set up to secure one of these trains for preservation, having been in service in London and the Isle of Wight, but ended up saving two!

I know we planned to adopt one (more) greyhound and ended up with two, but doing it with trains is on an all together different level!


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on September 22, 2021, 13:44:15
Trains “set” to return on 1st November.

 https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/news-and-media/news/2021/september/island-line-set-to-reopen-on-1-november (https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/news-and-media/news/2021/september/island-line-set-to-reopen-on-1-november)

Quote
Wednesday

The upgraded Island Line is due to reopen on 1 November, as long as a final round of train safety tests is successfully completed
A series of complications have delayed the £26m project, but the new trains and enhanced infrastructure will transform the customer experience
South Western Railway (SWR) has today announced that the upgraded Island Line is set to reopen on 1 November, subject to a final round of train safety tests being successfully completed.

Once reopened, customers will return to a transformed Island Line, with new trains running along upgraded infrastructure and through improved stations.

The new trains will significantly improve the customer experience, with upgrades ranging from better interiors to plug sockets, free WiFi and wheelchair spaces.

As well as testing the new trains, SWR staff have been busy improving the rail infrastructure and stations on the Island. Amongst other enhancements, the Island Line tracks have been upgraded to ensure customers can enjoy a smoother ride.

The £26 million project, which has been funded by the Department for Transport, Isle of Wight Council and Solent Local Enterprise Partnership, has regrettably taken longer to complete than first anticipated. This has been due to several factors including train testing complications, the pandemic and even the flash flooding which engulfed the Isle of Wight earlier this summer.

During testing, the new Class 484 Island Line trains have been affected by software issues, which SWR and train supplier Vivarail have made good progress in solving through further testing. The final phase of testing is key to the delivery of a safe and reliable railway.

Commenting, Claire Mann, Managing Director of South Western Railway, said:
“We are really pleased that the Island Line is set to reopen on 1 November, providing that a final round of testing allows us to safely introduce our new trains into passenger service.

“It goes without saying that the safety of our customers and colleagues is the absolute priority for us, which is why it’s so important to get these final preparations right.

“When the Island Line reopens, the new trains and upgraded infrastructure will give a real boost to the customer experience, delivering the modern, punctual and accessible railway that people expect and deserve.

“We are sorry that this project has taken longer to deliver than we first hoped, with a series of complications sadly delaying re-opening. However, we are confident that the transformed Island Line will be worth wait, and we are so excited to welcome locals and visitors back onboard!”


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on September 22, 2021, 17:02:17
There’s a recent video of four car testing:
https://youtu.be/87H4E_ReJ_4

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichT54 on October 05, 2021, 11:25:34
Here is a recent video of a class 484 doing test runs through Ryde Esplanade and on the pier. Despite the various rumours, it looks like there are no problems going through the tunnel at normal speeds  :)

https://youtu.be/ZSqiT1RdfiQ (https://youtu.be/ZSqiT1RdfiQ)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichT54 on October 20, 2021, 20:17:48
Here is a video of a class 484 pushing the last of the class 483s to Sandown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCOi-Ykf_ik (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCOi-Ykf_ik)

Is that coupling adapter ever likely to be used anywhere else in the future, or is it just too specialized?



Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichT54 on October 29, 2021, 11:33:35
According to the Island Echo, it's been confirmed that the Island Line will reopen on Monday (1/11/21).

Quote
South Western Railway says that the first Class 484 passenger service will depart Ryde St John’s at 05:35 on Monday, calling at Ryde Esplanade at 05:39 and then Ryde Pier Head at 05:41. The train will then head back down the line passing through Brading, Sandown and Lake before arriving in Shanklin at 06:10.

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/confirmed-island-line-trains-to-return-from-monday-morning/ (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/confirmed-island-line-trains-to-return-from-monday-morning/)

Any members here going to be there for the first run?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 29, 2021, 21:32:28
Any members here going to be there for the first run?

No but it will be an even better reason to retry my previously failed attempt, due to bad weather, at doing the IoW Hovercraft service back in 2019.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichT54 on November 01, 2021, 10:46:12
It looks like the service has got off to a bit of a shaky start:



Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on November 01, 2021, 11:05:43
Running as a four car apparently, as seen on FB.  So the hourly service can’t be due to lack of stock?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Fourbee on November 01, 2021, 12:05:35
My understanding is the hourly service is because the Wightlink ferry is only hourly at this time of year. Not sure what was promised before launch?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: JayMac on November 01, 2021, 12:17:43
I'm headed over to Isla Wigit today. Overnight stay. Will post pictures and observations here tonight and tomorrow.

As I said elsewhere I'm taking a very roundabout journey to get to Southampton for Red Funnel to Cowes. I decided I'd go 1st Class on the way out as it was only £30.45 from Templecombe to Cowes East with my Railcard. Knowing I was going to be using GWR from Exeter to Reading and CrossCountry from Reading to Southampton made the decision to chose 1st Class a no brainer at that price.

Glad I chose to. The 1115 from Exeter to Reading is heaving in Standard.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 01, 2021, 13:03:26
My understanding is the hourly service is because the Wightlink ferry is only hourly at this time of year. Not sure what was promised before launch?

But what proportion of passengers on the train are travelling to connect to / from the ferry? 

I am so used to being told that buses can't divert past stations, and that train connections cannot be held, because the proportion changing between them would be or is only a tiny proportion of the total passenger numbers, and  would expect (but may be wrong) that passengers making internal IoW journeys would outweigh the interisland ones


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on November 01, 2021, 13:28:15
My understanding is the hourly service is because the Wightlink ferry is only hourly at this time of year. Not sure what was promised before launch?

But what proportion of passengers on the train are travelling to connect to / from the ferry? 


I suspect that the vast majority of passengers travelling today will be enthusiasts, reporters and dignataries who probably won't be too concerned with the frequency.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on November 01, 2021, 13:33:25
My understanding is the hourly service is because the Wightlink ferry is only hourly at this time of year. Not sure what was promised before launch?
Most of the earlier “false dawns” at least as seen in realtimetrains, (now and again over the summer), showed an expected 2 tph service.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: oldshire on November 01, 2021, 22:02:42
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:RYD/2021-11-01/1957

more problems this evening. Lineside fire


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: JayMac on November 02, 2021, 15:58:16
South Western Services Data Manager message:

I've renamed this topic to turn it into a one stop shop for all things Island Line. I'll search later for other Island Line threads and move and merge them here if they fit into a general discussion.

bignosemac


PS. Pictures and videos of the 'new' Class 484 trains from my visit today, 2nd November 2021, will follow later this evening.



Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: JayMac on November 02, 2021, 20:50:14
Day two of the operation of the 'new' (cf. Trigger's Broom) Class 484 trains on Island Line, Isle of Wight.

Finn and I stayed overnight at the Fountain Inn, Cowes. I can highly recommend this hotel to anyone travelling with dogs and looking for somewhere to stay on the island. Finn was spoilt rotten. There's now a Poloroid of him in the bar and his picture has been added to the hotel's new dedicated doggy Instagram page. https://instagram.com/furryfriendsofthefountain

A clear crisp morning saw us take the bus from Cowes to Ryde to play with the trains.

Departing Ryde Esplanade
(https://i.ibb.co/txC5jNN/IMG-20211102-124800.jpg)

Ryde Pier Head
(https://i.ibb.co/TrY5FKJ/IMG-20211102-114249-2.jpg)

USB charging at every seat. There's also WiFi aboard
(https://i.ibb.co/BqrYz9r/IMG-20211102-104719.jpg)

Clean and comfortable interior
(https://i.ibb.co/1LFVbn3/IMG-20211102-104658.jpg)

Planter at Sandown
(https://i.ibb.co/k1PgPDB/IMG-20211102-110740.jpg)






I was impressed by the ride quality. A vast improvement on the Class 483s. The last time I rode the line I thought I might lose fillings! When it was announced that former District Line D78 stock was headed to the Isle of Wight I was admittedly skeptical. I was of the opinion that new build was the way forward. However, Vivarail have done an excellent job converting the D78s. Someone not in the know could easily believe these are indeed brand new trains.

I also spotted YouTuber Geoff Marshall out and about on the Island Line today. So he'll no doubt be uploading a video blog of his exploits shortly.

Finally, a little bonus video. Not a train. I do enjoy watching the hovercrafts take off.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: johnneyw on November 03, 2021, 12:20:21
Do many of the stations look like they've received a bit of TLC?  The last time that I visited the line some of them looked a bit better than others....that was a good decade ago though.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: JayMac on November 03, 2021, 12:42:29
The platforms have all been raised and now have non slip surfaces. I only visited Sandown, Ryde Esplanade and Ryde Pier Head. All looked clean and tidy. There appear to be new high visibility handrails in relevant places too. I understand that Brading in particular has had a lot of work done, including a new barrow crossing. This is in preparation for the reopening of the down platform. When the new full timetable starts running services will be scheduled to pass at Brading.

Finn didn't seem to mind the platform surface at Sandown.

(https://i.ibb.co/gzBq1wH/IMG-20211102-213712.jpg)



Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: JayMac on November 08, 2021, 21:05:55
Geoff Marshall has uploaded his Island Line trip report to YouTube.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: ChrisB on November 09, 2021, 10:54:53
That it a very weird link that doesn’t work for me?


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on November 09, 2021, 10:56:09
That it a very weird link that doesn’t work for me?

Updated - does this work:?

Geoff Marshall has uploaded his Island Line trip report to YouTube.




Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: JayMac on November 09, 2021, 13:08:29
That it a very weird link that doesn’t work for me?

Apologies. I've fixed it now.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on November 11, 2021, 18:45:56
Slightly after the Lord Mayor's show, given that bignosemac was there on day two, but I spent a couple of days on the island at the start of this week.

Here are a collection of photos from the trip

Ryde Pier Head

The starting (and ending) point for many visiting the island.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowryp1.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowryp2.jpg)

Not much has changed at the end of the pier except for the raising of the platform height.   There is currently an hourly service on the line and Wightlink are also running hourly.  The trains are due to arrive six minutes before the ferry goes and they have been struggling to keep time.  I noticed my train from Ryde Esplanade was due to be two minutes late when I was returning to the mainland but luckily I had enough time to amble down the pier.  I was sitting on the catamaran when the train did arrive.  I think those on the train made the ferry - but I couldn't be sure.

Ryde Esplanade

Raised platforms, of course, and a coat of paint.   For years there has been a sign warning people not to lean against part of the railings because they were treated with pigeon repellent.  The sign has gone, but I didn't test if the coating had gone too!

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowrye1.jpg)

There was already a departure board on the platform at Esplanade.  There is now a more comprehensive one opposite the travel centre.   There is a similar one at Shanklin which also includes bus departures.  I didn't spot any at Brading or Sandown.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowrye2.jpg)

Ryde St Johns Road

This has always been the heart of the Island Line with the train depot and sole signalbox.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowryj1.jpg)

There are currently four two car units on the island with the fifth and final one due to cross the Solent in the next fortnight.  After the initial interest following the launch the service is being run with a single two car unit - indeed during my stay I only saw 484 003 in service.

Although the line has been re-signalled some semaphore signals remain...

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowryj2.jpg)

...but the majority are LED colour light

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowryj3.jpg)

Brading

Brading has seen the most infrastructure work under the project.   The passing loop has been reinstated after being lifted in 1988.  I often wondered why the loop here was removed rather than the one at Sandown.  It meant it was no longer possible to run a half hourly service but rather an even 40/20 one.

Although the loop is back it is not currently in use with the hourly service in operation.   All trains are using the up platform.   The new footbridge is nearing completion and there is also level access via a foot crossing.  I assume this is a necessity as the second platform is being brought back into use and so current accessibility rules apply.


(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowbra1.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowbra2.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowbra3.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowbra5.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowbra6.jpg)

New stock means new ramps for those who need assistance boarding.  I didn't see one in use so not sure why there is the diagonal edge to the ramp.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowbra4.jpg)

Lake

This was the one station I didn't visit (apart of course from Smallbrook Junction which is only open when the steam railway is in operation).

However there is a nearby foot crossing which affords views of the trains at track level

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowlake1.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowlake2.jpg)

There is a road overbridge a short distance to the south which used to allow views over the line but it now has a new safety screen which prevents such photography going forward.

Sandown

The passing loop remains at Sandown and is being used, I assume because the two lines are not bi-directionally signalled.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowsan3.jpg)

The old Class 483 units have either been scrapped, gone to the Isle of Wight Steam Railway as a static exhibit, or found new life as cafes.   One remains on the Island Line in the engineers' siding at Sandown awaiting transport to Wales.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowsan2.jpg)

Meanwhile outside the station there is a reminder of the old and new.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowsan1.jpg)

Shanklin

The platforms at all the stations now provide easy access to the trains - as can be seen here.   The only one with any issues is Ryde Esplanade where the curved platform does make some larger than usual gaps.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowshn1.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowshn2.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iowshn3.jpg)

There are now ticket machines at Shanklin and Ryde St Johns Road and wifi at all stations.

The ride is certainly smoother than before the work to upgrade the line.  As mentioned timekeeping is a concern, particularly with ferry connections in mind.  It is planned to start a half hourly service from the timetable change in December.  It will be interesting to see how that fares.  While I was on the trains none were particularly busy.  Of course it is out of season but I do wonder how much of an effect the long lay-off coupled with the hourly service has had on patronage.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichT54 on November 11, 2021, 19:56:42
It seems that some disabled users are disappointed that the promised level access has not been provided.

Quote
A major programme to improve access to rail services on the Isle of Wight has left disabled campaigners feeling let down and frustrated after they discovered that a train operating company had broken its promise to introduce level access boarding.

South Western Railway (SWR) had pledged that its £26 million upgrade programme on the eight-station Island Line would provide newer trains, “modernise the rail experience” for passengers, and provide a “real improvement”.

A graphic on its website, published as far back as September 2019 and tweeted at the time by the island’s Tory MP Bob Seely, also included a promise to “provide level access” by adjusting platform heights.

Media coverage from 2019 mentioned that the programme involved “creating level access from the train to the station platform”, while an article from another rail publication last year stated: “Level access will be provided at most stations, although ramps will need to be deployed for wheelchairs at a couple of locations.”

But when the Island Line reopened last week, SWR announced only that adjustments had been made “to reduce the gap between the train and the platform to improve accessibility”, rather than eliminating the gap as it had previously promised.

SWR also produced a new graphic that said platform heights had been adjusted to “improve accessibility” rather than “provide level access” from platform to train.

SWR now insists that creating level access across the network was never part of its plan.

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/rail-company-breaks-level-access-pledge-then-rewrites-history/ (https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/rail-company-breaks-level-access-pledge-then-rewrites-history/)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on November 11, 2021, 22:42:15
There are a number of detailed planning applications on the IOW council website for the platform alterations, I’m sure there’ll be evidence there about what the intention was. 

I’m sure I read the figures for the pier head and the increase was in the order of about 400mm,  I’d be surprised if that wasn’t described as being level.  IIRC it was also considered a high enough difference to be unsafe for the old stock.

Ryde Esplanade - IOW Planning ref 20/02182/LBC:

1.3 The LBC application is for “the lightweight platform overlay of No.1 platform only for level access boarding to class 484 and other associated works at Ryde Esplanade Station”

Ryde Pier Head -  IOW Planning ref 20/02161/LBC:

1.3 The LBC application is for “the lightweight platform overlay of No.1 platform only for level access boarding to class 484 and other associated works at Ryde Pier Head station”

Paul


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichT54 on December 14, 2021, 15:15:28
South Western Railway has announced that two trains per hour will start running on the Island Line during peak periods from Monday, 20 December.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/news-and-media/news/2021/december/swr-announces-two-island-line-trains-per-hour-during-peak-periods (https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/news-and-media/news/2021/december/swr-announces-two-island-line-trains-per-hour-during-peak-periods)

Quote
  • Two trains per hour will begin running during peak periods from Monday, South Western Railway (SWR) has said.
  • The new services are designed to cater to commuters – once restrictions are lifted - and school children.
  • The uplift is a step towards two trains per hour throughout the day.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on February 16, 2022, 19:17:24
The last unit, 484005, was taken over to the island today.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on February 16, 2022, 19:41:06
Apparently the last of the old 483s is due to leave the island tomorrow. 


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: MVR S&T on February 16, 2022, 20:09:32
 Alterations to services between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin
Due to a member of traincrew being unavailable between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin fewer trains are able to run.
What's Going On:
Train services running to and from these stations will be reduced. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 18/02/22.
What We're Doing About It:
We have been informed that a member of train crew is unavailable, as a result the Island Line will be reduced to an hourly service.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichardB on February 16, 2022, 20:59:16
Great news today - the last of the new units has arrived on the Island

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/news-and-media/news/2022/february/out-with-the-old-and-in-with-the-new


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on May 25, 2022, 10:21:58
From Island Echo (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/island-line-wont-serve-ryde-pier-head-for-7-months-during-17million-repair-scheme/)

Quote
Island Line trains won’t be serving Ryde Pier Head for more than 7 months to facilitate a £17million critical repair project to the railway, it has been revealed.

It’s said that the platform superstructure at the end of Ryde Pier is coming towards the end of its operational life and requires renewal and refurbishment to allow it to continue to operate safely. If the works aren’t completed before December this year the line will be forced to close for safety reasons.

It is proposed that works will get underway at the end of June and will continue until at least mid-February, during which time the line needs to be closed north of Ryde Esplanade. It will include replacing the dilapidated weather screen that greets visitors to the Island.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: johnneyw on May 25, 2022, 12:48:21
I noticed that the abovementioned weather screen was looking rather in need of replacement when I was there last month, with some of it missing and the rest appearing very worn out weather beaten.  There were a number of people in Hi Vis and hard hats going about their business at the time and I did wonder what they were doing.  Looks like it was an inspection team.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on July 31, 2022, 09:06:15
Two of the old class 483s have been preserved on the Island.

One is at Train Story at the Isle of Wight Steam Railway's headquarters at Havenstreet,  A rolling video tells the story of the units' service on the Island.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/4832.jpg)

The other is at the Chilli Farm near Sandown where there are plans to turn it into a restaurant.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/4831.jpg)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: johnneyw on October 28, 2022, 19:13:05
There's an update in New Civil Engineer on the repairs to Ryde Pier which necessitates a winter closure of the service on the pier with a shuttle bus replacement between Pier Head and Esplanade.  More on this link:

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/historic-isle-of-wight-pier-rail-route-to-undergo-major-repairs-28-10-2022/


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Clan Line on October 28, 2022, 20:11:53
"Network Rail Wessex route director Mark Killick said: “We’re pleased to finally start work on Ryde Pier, which after 142 years of service needs a lot of maintenance to support SWR’s Island Line services going forward."...........

................but not going backwards ???


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: eightonedee on March 09, 2023, 18:53:51
I've just seen a piece on BBC local news (South) by Paul Clifton. Apparently the Ryde Pier works are well behind schedule with Network Rail unwilling to give a new completion date. Presumably it will be repeated after the 10 o'clock news for those who missed it.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: CyclingSid on March 10, 2023, 06:58:42
Probably similar at: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-64899656 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-64899656)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: JayMac on March 10, 2023, 09:20:49
I'm currently on the Isle of Wight.

The rail and bus station frontage at Ryde Esplanade is an absolute mess at the moment.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: RichardB on March 29, 2023, 20:11:57
Here's a nice piece from Paul Clifton on tonight's BBC South Today about Beeching and the Isle of Wight.  From 12mins.  Only available until 18 57 tomorrow.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001klb4/south-today-evening-news-29032023 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001klb4/south-today-evening-news-29032023)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on August 02, 2023, 14:18:27
I'm currently on the Isle of Wight.

The rail and bus station frontage at Ryde Esplanade is an absolute mess at the moment.

Pleased to say the work is now largely complete and the situation is a lot better

2018

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/rydbus18.jpg)

2023

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/rydbus23.jpg)

The stops have now been arranged so buses can simply pull away and not need to reverse.  The most frequent service - the 9 to Newport - now leaves from a layby adjacent to the main road.   Those buses which formerly had to run to the roundabout by the Castle and double back can now access George Street directly via a filter lane.

A new railway ticket office has also been constructed.   If the currently proposals go ahead it may have a short life.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/rydtkt.jpg)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: Ralph Ayres on August 02, 2023, 14:58:02
Hmm. I would have thought the old sawtooth(?) arrangement coped better with a larger number of buses and made it far easier to get close to the kerb so I'm surprised they've changed it. Reversing off the stand perhaps isn't ideal but fine if public access to the roadway behind is avoided by good design of pedestrian routes.

The 2018 photo was presumably taken from the footbridge to the hovercraft terminal. I hope the different viewpoint doesn't mean it's no longer there; I have many happy memories of watching the rather more impressive (ie noisier) SRN6 arriving and leaving in my yoof.

Time for a trip to the IoW now the pier, bus station and railway upgrade work has finished, though I still here of occasional problems with the new trains.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: JayMac on August 02, 2023, 15:36:07
The footbridge to the Hovertravel terminal is definitely still there. The hovercraft was how I got on and off the island when I joined bobm there for a few days.
(https://i.ibb.co/yfsCntH/IMG-20230727-174812.jpg)


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: paul7575 on August 02, 2023, 16:43:56
The Esplanade Hotel webcam periodically focuses on the bus stands, so it’s possible to see how the new road layout works, you can also scroll back up to 12 hours earlier:

https://www.youtube.com/live/R1P9v9bEtuk?feature=share


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: bobm on August 02, 2023, 17:15:21
I hope the different viewpoint doesn't mean it's no longer there; I have many happy memories of watching the rather more impressive (ie noisier) SRN6 arriving and leaving in my yoof.

Time for a trip to the IoW now the pier, bus station and railway upgrade work has finished, though I still here of occasional problems with the new trains.

As mentioned the footbridge is still there - my ability to climb it has diminished over the intervening period however.

The catamaran runs hourly on weekdays departing at XX:45.  Alternate Island Line services serve the pier head arriving at XX:39.  I was aware while I was on the island that it either arrived late and the passengers had an hour's wait for the next or, as on my arrival, the catamaran is slightly late and you arrive on the platform to see the train halfway down the pier.

It is not so bad at weekends when the crossings are half hourly.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: CyclingSid on August 03, 2023, 07:21:03
Quote
rather more impressive (ie noisier) SRN6
which I think you can now find one at the Hovercraft Museum at Lee-on-the-Solent https://www.hovercraft-museum.org/collections/ (https://www.hovercraft-museum.org/collections/), on the site of what was HMS Daedalus. Mention of the Interservice Hovercraft Trials Unit, reminds of when I was a youngster living on Hayling Island and they used to use the area in Chichester Harbour just south of Thorney Island.


Title: Re: Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion
Post by: grahame on March 23, 2024, 14:17:37
From the Isle of Wight Observer (https://iwobserver.co.uk/5-trains-have-become-4-and-swr-are-buying-wheels-from-a-scrapyard/)

Quote
5 trains have become 4 – and SWR are buying wheels from a scrapyard!

The much-vaunted ‘new’ Class 484 Island Line trains, which only entered service in November 2021 promising a fresh start, find themselves on an unexpected track. They now face the ignominy of running on wheels bought by South Western Railway (SWR) from “a scrap metal merchant” after a senior official from the Department for Transport (DfT) told the railway company that “Minimising expenditure must be the focus … I’d not want us to be spending any more than is absolutely necessary.”

The disclosure comes from a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request made by the IW Observer.

[snip]

Whispers that one of the 484s has already been decommissioned, also for spares, appear to be confirmed. Five new trains were delivered in 2021, costing £11 million, part of an optimistically described £26 million ‘investment’. However, in January, SWT gave the DfT an update on only four, describing “3 units out of service, 2 of which are currently subject to brake testing. Unfortunately, this leaves only 1 unit in service for the entire Island Line.”





This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net