Great Western Coffee Shop

As well as the four foreigners duly honoured by Fran^ois Hollande  this morning for their courage and sang-froid, and the three* French residents - one in hospital, an off-duty SNCF employee, and one preferring anonymity - a lot of publicity in France has gone to Jean-Hugues Anglade. He is a well-known TV actor there, and was pictured being evacuated from Arras station on a stretcher-chair (he'd cut his thumb on the glass of an emergency stop button). He was in Betty Blue, but that was many years ago and I don't think any of his later film parts has given him much of a profile here.

He has been complaining about the Thalys staff abandoning the passengers, and running away to lock themselves in a staff compartment and not open in response to his and other passengers banging on the door. He was with his wife and children, so his concern about their safety at the time is understandable. He also said that when one of the Americans came looking for first aid supplies after the gunman was overcome, they still wouldn't open up.

The Thalys and SNCF response has been a bit confused, but in part it is that the catering car staff did panic but they work for a contractor. One conductor saw the gunman (in car 12), ran to the locked baggage space (at the end of car 11 - it's not clear which way round this second unit was) and was followed by a few passengers. He followed his instructions to contact the driver and conductors in the front unit, and when the trains stopped he got out as did the passengers with him. By then he was talking to control who said the train would go to Arras as fast as possible to rendezvous with emergency services, and he also knew by then the gunman was disarmed. He did not reboard the train, perhaps to stay with the dismounted passengers - I doubt they were keen to get back on and time was of the essence.

Anglade's fame has won him a phone call and a promise of a meeting with the head of SNCF, Guillaume Pepy. He has since modified his stance to acknowledge that some of the Thalys staff did not run away and hide (there was a second on-duty conductor, as well as the SNCF man who helped pin the gunman down). However Pepy has said of Anglade "I respect his version of events, but there are others that say the staff behaved in an exemplary manner".

The question remains: what should a guard or other staff do in such an eventuality?

They will have training in how to deal with aggressive passengers, and protect other passengers if they can, but are not in any sense responsible for public order. Other customer-facing staff such as catering will presumably also have some training on that kind, though aimed at self-protection. But much of what will be specified in any procedure is best done by staying out of harm's way but in touch with events - though evidently that was hard in this case. For example, communicating with control and the driver, and being prepared to assist outside if the train stops and is evacuated in extreme haste.

Or maybe there are already staff instructions in this country, but they are labelled "not to be discussed in public".

(*This list is as reported now, but may not be final.)

I suspect you might be right.....
I have every sympathy for on-board staff, who likely rightly think that this is well outside their job-spec & not what they joined the railways for....there will definitely be guidelines in what do for a terrorist attack, likely to have been issued by a Government department I suspect to the TOCs. How far the TOCs have taken instructions to their own staff after "contact control on the Emergency procedure instructions", I do not know, and as a member of the public, wouldn't expect to either.

We might be able to get an overview for the Customer Panel though....

Marauding Active Shooter (MAS) training (abridged version).

Good practice for coping with a MAS situation: if you are in the immediate vicinity of the shooter/s be aware of your environment, note the nearest exit and make your way to it; if in an office stay there and close/lock door; if in a corridor, enter a room and close/lock door.

Under effective gun fire: take cover behind something, try to leave the area

Nearby gunfire: leave the area

Evacuation:  be aware of the location and direction of the threat, evacuate away from the danger.  Leave belongings behind, evacuate even if other don't agree to follow, prevent others from entering area, do not move injured people, call 999, do not congregate at RVPs

Inevacuation: if evacuation is not possible, hide out of view, lock the door and blockade if possible, turn off mobile phone/pager, unplug landlines/TV/radio, stay quiet.

Remain calm, stay low, don't make sudden movements.

DO NOT TAKE ACTION AGAINST THE MAS.

When the police arrive, remain calm and follow their instructions

If you honestly think that anyone would stop to consider their job specs and career motivation in these circumstances......well......

Look there is no training or manual which can help people prepare for this type of event - we all hope we'd react calmly and heroically however unless (and God forbid) it actually happens, you can't know how anyone would respond.

The reaction of the American servicemen was based on two things - courage and confidence.

I'd like to think I'd do the same (as I'm sure we all would) but having not been in a situation where the bullets have been flying I don't know that I would - maybe I would, maybe I'd run away and hide like the rail staff did, or maybe I'd be paralysed with fear and just stay put.

Equally you may find that a member of staff who ordinarily would shrink from confronting someone sitting in the wrong seat or being disruptive whilst drunk would react with great heroism whilst bigger and stronger men did nothing - it's simply impossible to know and therefore no-one can be condemned for running away and hiding, but great credit goes to those who got stuck in and flattened the b*****d.

I'm sure we all hope and pray that we'll never have to find out how we'd react.

IMHO, it would be unreasonable to EXPECT railway staff to confront an armed attacker, if however they CHOOSE to so do, then that is exceedingly commendable and they should be considered for a suitable award for heroism.

I also believe that the law should be clarified or updated to ensure that a railway employee, or indeed a passenger, who DOES tackle a gunman should be promised complete immunity from prosecution even if they kill the gunman.
Whilst I would not suggest that people should be encouraged to kill terrorists, if in a struggle the gunman dies then that should be regarded as "just one of those things" and not a case for any form of police action against the innocent party.

An entirely foreseeable scenario would be a gunman running along the carriage and being tripped up by someone, before they manage to get up another passenger might kick them in the head and/or stand on them to prevent them shooting. Such actions should be automatically regarded as a reasonable response without any question of police enquiry as to exactly how much force was used by whom and whether or not it was reasonable.

Some people have suggested that if the recent attack on a French train had instead occurred in England, that those decorated for bravery in France would have faced prosecution for assault in the UK.

With respect, I think maybe you've been watching a few too many Stephen Seagal films.....you can't give blanket immunity from a murder prosecution to a defined group of people simply because someone is carrying a gun - or any other weapon - it has to be down to individual circumstances and the use of reasonable force.

Anyone suggesting that those involved with the incident in France would have been prosecuted in the UK is plain wrong - they used reasonable and proportionate force to disarm/disable him and make the situation safe - no law against that.

Q. When faced with a person wielding an assortment of firearms, what steps would you take?

A. Bluddy great big ones, in the opposite direction.

 ::)

and who could blame you?.............after ensuring that all customers (including terrorists) hold the correct tickets, and enforcing any appropriate penalty fares of course!

some people are braver/more reckless/more confident/faster/bigger/stronger than others.

Until I was put to the test, I don't know where I would lie on the spectrum.  It would therefore be wrong for me to criticise the actions of anyone on that train except for the terrorist himself. 

The train staff can be forgiven if they acted as scared humans rather than trained soldiers. 

Generally very sound advice, in most circumstances. The only bit with which I would disagree is the instructions to "unplug landlines, radio, TV"  Surely if trapped or under siege, TV or radio news could be a valuable source of information. And if a landline telephone rings, to pick it up and then leave it off the hook could allow the authorities to listen and ascertain what is happening.
I appreciate that the terrorist might hear the radio, TV, or phone, but if a building has suddenly been evacuated, then a number of phones would be ringing unattended, and radios and TV sets probably left on, and therefore not be liable to attract attention.

Broadgage sounds a bit too knowledgeable on this subject for my liking..............given his devotion to the buffets, I'm a bit concerned that he may be planning to mount an Alamo style "last stand" on the final service carrying a buffet (first class, not "steerage" obviously!) bombarding the forces of law and order with cheese rolls and pasties as they try to apprehend him!  ;D

There are many instances of sacrificial or life-risking bravery by railway staff faced with war, criminal violence or even accident, where actions beyond any rule book were called for.

Norman Tunna and Ivor Davies at Morpeth Dock, Merseyside (GWR) and James Kennedy (BREL) are just some that have received recognition. Many others, though unrecognised were no doubt their equals.

Present day staff (and passengers) being children of their parents can be trusted to conduct themselves similarly.

OTC

Completely off topic but congratulations on 1,000 posts :D :o ;D

I expect there is a rule not to put yourself in danger. Therefore get away from the danger.