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Journey by Journey => London to the Cotswolds => Topic started by: Witham Bobby on August 26, 2015, 03:20:26 pm



Title: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Witham Bobby on August 26, 2015, 03:20:26 pm
The long-awaited plan to provide a new station where the Cotswold line crosses the Midland Gloucester to Birmingham route have taken a step forward.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-34049248 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-34049248)



Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on August 26, 2015, 03:50:42 pm
I wonder what this means for Worcester Shrub Hill ? Just after completing the magnificent restoration of the cast iron ladies waiting room on Platform 2 ..... ::)


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 26, 2015, 03:51:00 pm
It's not going to be plain sailing though - it appears a developer has first dibs....

From the Worcester News (http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/13621773.Business_owner_threatens_legal_action_over_Norton_Parkway_station/#comments)

Quote
Business owner threatens legal action over Norton Parkway station

A WORCESTER businessman has threatened to take legal action against Worcestershire County Council if it refuses to enter into an agreement over the long-awaited Norton Parkway train station.

The ^22 million station in the village on the south east edge of Worcester has been mooted for decades but could finally get the green light at a meeting of the county council^s planning committee on Tuesday, August 25.

But managing director of Lowesmoor Wharf-based Norton Parkway Developments Stennard Harrison has accused the council of refusing to engage with him over the project.

The firm has a legal right to purchase the land lasting until August 2018 and has already entered into an agreement to deliver the project with Capita, which among other projects is currently working on the HS2 rail line.

Speaking exclusively to your Worcester News Mr Harrison said he will not back down and believes his firm would be able to deliver the project at a much lower cost to the taxpayer.

^Unless we reach an agreement with the county council by August 26 we will go to arbitration,^ he said. ^We will go all the way to judicial review if we have to.

^This is the county council^s last chance.^

In a letter to members of the council^s planning committee the council Mr Harrison said he had been attempting to engage with council officers over the project, which is expected to be completed by May 2017, for ^a considerable period^ but had found them ^unwilling to engage^.

^We have found the council^s stance to be most frustrating particularly since our development partner has vast experience in matters of this nature and have been keen to communicate with the council^s representatives in order to try and move matters forward,^ he said.

^Subject to receiving co operation from the council we confirm that we can deliver the proposed station within the preferred timetable and at a cost to the tax payer which is substantially less than the figures currently envisaged by the county council.

^In addition the county council will already have spent a large amount of the taxpayer^s money pursuing the planning application when in our opinion this work could easily have been carried out by the private sector at no expense to the local authority.^

A Worcestershire County Council spokesman said: ^Council officers have met with representatives of this developer on numerous occasions over the past two years.

^Consideration will be given to any deliverable scheme which offers better value to the public up to the point where it commits to its own current scheme.^

The new station will link to the Cotswolds and Birmingham to Bristol lines and will include a booking office, toilets, shop and 500 parking spaces as well as a taxi rank, bus stops and a drop-off area. It already has ^7.5 million of funding from the government, with the council expected to take out a ^14 million loan to fund the rest.

Worcester Shrub Hill is expected to close when the new station opens.

The press got that completely wrong - the council stated categorically at the start of yesterday's meeting that it won't be closing. But three stations for a City the size of Worcester?!!


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Btline on August 27, 2015, 09:01:22 pm
This station will be a complete waste of money. I am horrified that Network Rail are letting it proceed (they must be furious).

The only XC services that will stop are the Cardiff to Nottinghams, which are already overcrowded. But as the journey time to Bham will be quicker, I expect Malvern and South Worcester folks to cram onto the gridlocked A4440 to Parkway. Hardly a green station.

Even if they extend LM services to Parkway (not possible due to the single track) people from North Worcestershire (Stourbridge, Kidderminster) travelling to Bristol will have to change TWICE. At Parkway and Cheltenham!
As it happens, it will be THREE times. Perhaps people will just drive to the station or go via Bham....

The Cotswold line is too infrequent and unreliable to provide East to South connections.

The best solution as I've said before is to extend a Snow Hill service from Shrub Hill to Gloucester every hour. Same platform interchange at Cheltenham = job done. It would probably just require a couple of extra units.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on August 27, 2015, 09:27:58 pm

The only XC services that will stop are the Cardiff to Nottinghams,

Supposition? If not, source?


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 28, 2015, 09:25:52 am
XC boss has verbally stated this. I guess the DfT can specify others in the next franchise ITT if that's their wish


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 28, 2015, 10:31:22 am
Stations / justifications come with decades of use planned ... but public transport services can come and go and be changed on a really short timescale.  I can find you a brand new service that was recently had its funding pulled based on an evaluation just 47 weeks after it started.  So with a new station one eye needs to look at current services and plans which may be cautious in terms of calls, and the other eye needs to be looking to the future - both tactics and strategy form part of the mix, and in the long term it's the strategy that rules.

I don't know Worcester, but many of the discussions here are tactics. What about the strategy?


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on August 28, 2015, 10:32:39 am
XC boss has verbally stated this. I guess the DfT can specify others in the next franchise ITT if that's their wish

Source?

It's unlikely to be in the gift of the current XC operator anyway. DfT can specify changes to current franchise if they wish. Worcester Parkway is specifically mentioned in the current XC franchise agreement and the operator is bound to "work constructively" to deliver the project.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 28, 2015, 10:36:02 am
Mark Cooper.

Cardiff-Nottingham's are their offer....that is being constructive.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on August 28, 2015, 11:03:42 am
I'd have loved that when I was commuting weekly from Charlbury to Burton-on-Trent...

Sadly I suspect that not only will the trains be run by CrossCountry, the fares (and restrictions) will be set by them too, which will continue to make changing at Shrub Hill a more attractive option.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on August 28, 2015, 05:09:46 pm
Sadly I suspect that not only will the trains be run by CrossCountry, the fares (and restrictions) will be set by them too, which will continue to make changing at Shrub Hill a more attractive option.

Won't parkway be in a group called Worcester All Stations?


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 28, 2015, 05:38:20 pm
It ought....does it already exist for the two current stations?

If not, maybe that'll continue?


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Btline on August 28, 2015, 10:44:42 pm
I suspect the Northbound fares will be set higher for Parkway than the city centre to prevent everyone driving there in the morning peak and swamping the Cardiff to Nottinghams.

I doubt that XC will stop anything else there as it would screw up the journey times. Bristol to Bham is already almost 90 mins which isn't acceptable. These journey times need to be cut to be competitive against the M5.

One thing in its favour is that the XC Bromsgrove stops will probably be removed once the station is rebuilt*, easing the congestion on Cardiff to Nottinghams.

*XC call as LM's peak services are too long for the short platforms.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: bignosemac on August 29, 2015, 12:10:58 pm
Bristol to Bham is already almost 90 mins which isn't acceptable. These journey times need to be cut to be competitive against the M5.

Central Bristol to central Birmingham by car is 1 hour 40 mins if you get a clear run. Last two times I did a similar journey (actually from nearer the M5 in North Bristol) it took 2 hours.

The train takes 1 hour 28 mins max. A stop at Worcester Parkway would add, at most, 5 minutes to the schedule.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on August 29, 2015, 01:16:14 pm
Bristol to Bham is already almost 90 mins which isn't acceptable. These journey times need to be cut to be competitive against the M5.

Central Bristol to central Birmingham by car is 1 hour 40 mins if you get a clear run. Last two times I did a similar journey (actually from nearer the M5 in North Bristol) it took 2 hours.

The train takes 1 hour 28 mins max. A stop at Worcester Parkway would add, at most, 5 minutes to the schedule.

Plus time from home to station and also at the other end ?????


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: CLPGMS on August 29, 2015, 03:03:51 pm
Quote
The Cotswold line is too infrequent and unreliable to provide East to South connections.

The best solution as I've said before is to extend a Snow Hill service from Shrub Hill to Gloucester every hour. Same platform interchange at Cheltenham = job done. It would probably just require a couple of extra units.

For once, I agree with Btline.  If passengers from the Stourbridge/Kidderminster/Droitwich Spa areas are to be persuaded to leave their cars at home and use the train to travel south, rather than drive down the M5 Motorway, then a through service to Gloucester or even Bristol T M is essential.

On another matter - fares - some of those in the Worcester area are a complete mess.  ChrisB asks whether tickets to Worcester cover both stations.  They do, being to "Worcester Stns".  If Parkway is included in this grouping, then a massive anomaly will be created on the North-South route.  The present Off Peak Day Return from Ashchurch for Tewkesbury (about 9 miles south of the Parkway site) to Birmingham is ^24.00.  A similar fare from Worcester Stns, even after the fare increase in September, will only be ^8.90.  The Ashchurch fare is set by Cross Country.  The Worcester fare is set by London Midland.  An OPDR from Pershore to Birmingham costs ^12.30 (LM fare). Evesham is a similar distance from Birmingham to Ashchurch and the OPDR from there costs ^14.20 (LM).


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 29, 2015, 03:18:35 pm
XC is going to have something to say about that before they start stopping, I reckon


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on August 29, 2015, 06:41:39 pm
I wonder how many tickets will be mistakenly sold with Worcester Park (London) as the origin or destination?


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on August 29, 2015, 06:48:52 pm
On another matter - fares - some of those in the Worcester area are a complete mess.  ChrisB asks whether tickets to Worcester cover both stations.  They do, being to "Worcester Stns".  If Parkway is included in this grouping, then a massive anomaly will be created on the North-South route.  The present Off Peak Day Return from Ashchurch for Tewkesbury (about 9 miles south of the Parkway site) to Birmingham is ^24.00.  A similar fare from Worcester Stns, even after the fare increase in September, will only be ^8.90.  The Ashchurch fare is set by Cross Country.  The Worcester fare is set by London Midland.  An OPDR from Pershore to Birmingham costs ^12.30 (LM fare). Evesham is a similar distance from Birmingham to Ashchurch and the OPDR from there costs ^14.20 (LM).

Not adding Parkway to the Worcester Stns group will not solve that mess, unless, unreasonably, the permitted route from Shrub Hill to Birmingham excluded via Parkway.  

Lets face it the whole ticket system is a mess! Fixing it is going to please a lot of people who are paying over the odds (e.g. long distance outside the old Network SE area) and at the same time upset a lot of people who are really paying too little.  Lets face it 8.90 off peak for a 60 mile round trip is too low.  The same fare from Swindon to London (154 mile round trip) is ^48.  That seems more in line with the Ashchurch fare!

Of course LM can always offer a LM only fare!  


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on August 29, 2015, 07:49:23 pm
On another matter - fares - some of those in the Worcester area are a complete mess.  ChrisB asks whether tickets to Worcester cover both stations.  They do, being to "Worcester Stns".  If Parkway is included in this grouping, then a massive anomaly will be created on the North-South route.  The present Off Peak Day Return from Ashchurch for Tewkesbury (about 9 miles south of the Parkway site) to Birmingham is ^24.00.  A similar fare from Worcester Stns, even after the fare increase in September, will only be ^8.90.  The Ashchurch fare is set by Cross Country.  The Worcester fare is set by London Midland.  An OPDR from Pershore to Birmingham costs ^12.30 (LM fare). Evesham is a similar distance from Birmingham to Ashchurch and the OPDR from there costs ^14.20 (LM).

Ashchurch is mostly served by the two-hourly FGW service between Bristol and Great Malvern. CrossCountry have very few trains that stop there. Indeed, it's a bit much for them to even offer an OffPeak Day Return from Ashchurch to Birmingham. The ticket is not valid outward until 09:30 or after, so the first train on which you could use it is the 13:07.

And when you travel home again, there's two CrossCountry trains, at 16:30 and 17:30 from Birmingham. The Offpeak Day Return isn't valid on either of them, being restricted to before 15:30 or after 18:15.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Btline on August 31, 2015, 03:20:01 pm

Central Bristol to central Birmingham by car is 1 hour 40 mins if you get a clear run. Last two times I did a similar journey (actually from nearer the M5 in North Bristol) it took 2 hours.


The train needs to be significantly faster to compete effectively. By the time you add on door to door travel, car will generally win - although I agree the M5 can be a nightmare. Bham and Bristol are not like London, the vast majority of commuters drive in.

The aim should be to raise line speeds and electrify to get journey times closer to an hour. Then rail will be significantly faster and modal shift will occur.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: CLPGMS on September 05, 2015, 12:49:30 pm
Quote
Ashchurch is mostly served by the two-hourly FGW service between Bristol and Great Malvern. CrossCountry have very few trains that stop there. Indeed, it's a bit much for them to even offer an OffPeak Day Return from Ashchurch to Birmingham.
That is not the worst scenario.  Cross Country is responsible for setting several fares in the Worcester/Evesham area where there is no XC service on which passengers can possibly travel.  For example, fares from Ashchurch to all stations from Worcester to Ledbury (inclusive) are set by Cross Country.  Unbelievably, the fares from Ashchurch to Hereford are set by Arriva Trains Wales, who also do not provide any train services on the route.  The intermediate fares between Worcester and Hereford are controlled by London Midland.  Really, it would make sense if Great Western took over the fares from Ashchurch to the Worcester/Hereford route and brought them into line with London Midland's Worcester/Hereford and Worcester/Birmingham ones.

Getting back onto the topic, I wonder whether the new station will be included in "Worcester Stns".  I understand that it is to be called "Worcestershire Parkway", not "Worcester Parkway".  Fares from there need to be in line with those from surrounding stations, whoever sets them.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on July 09, 2016, 12:21:18 am
An update on Worcester Parkway

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/14607538.Full_steam_ahead_for_Worcestershire_Parkway_as_Government_signs_off_railway_station_scheme/


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on July 09, 2016, 12:36:12 pm
Interesting comments on that article!


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 09, 2016, 06:53:47 pm
Probably all from Btline  ;)


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 09, 2016, 09:50:09 pm
"You may very well think that: I couldn't possibly comment."   ;) :D ;D


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on July 10, 2016, 11:57:29 am
Very interesting comments, but they seem to miss the point.

Anyone who does not live in the Birmingham catchment area has to access Birmingham New Street Or Worcester Foregate on on a slow stopping service that is not frequent.

The addition of a station that is capable of getting trains every 30 minutes from Cheltenham/Bristol and every 60 minutes from Cheltenham/Cardiff, with frequent connections to Worcester Foregate, Worcester Shrub Hill, Bromsgrove, etc.

So, provided Cross Country can be persuaded to add this station to its regular stopping pattern from Bristol and Cardiff, it should prove very successful.



Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 10, 2016, 12:22:46 pm
Indeed, anyone who currently commutes from Worcester to Birmingham has a minimum 45 minute journey time from either of the current stations, and the time it takes to battle through Worcester's city centre in the morning - I don't know how bad that it, but can't imagine it's great.

Contrast that with a probable 35-40 minutes journey time from a parkway station with great access off of the M5 and anyone who lives in east or south Worcester, or the surrounding villages, or Pershore may well find commuting a much more appealing prospect.  Added to that, journeys (providing connections are good) from Evesham, Pershore, Moreton to Cheltenham and Gloucester will be much improved over the current haphazard service via Shrub Hill.

Whilst I don't think it will be an amazing success story, I do think it will prove popular enough to warrant stopping the Cardiff to Nottingham XC service (plus perhaps the odd longer distance XC service) and probably all of the North Cotswold Line services.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on July 11, 2016, 11:19:04 am
All the North Cotswolds (as the DfT has leaned on GWR) and the Cardiff-Nottingham's are more than likely (ditto, still happening, I hear) - but XC I hear are seriously holding out on stopping anything else simply coz they're a long distance service, not a commuter service on the trains to/from the SW - so expect to change at Cheltenham for the SW


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on July 11, 2016, 11:48:44 am
There is scheduled to be a large housing development in the area, and with the close access to the M5, with rail services to Birmingham, Bristol, Cardiff, London and local stops it is bound to be successful, and potentially remove some current traffic from the roads and reduce its future increase.

The difficulty is defining success. I am sure some people will moan that it is in the wrong place, costs too much money, spending on roads, bus services, etc.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on July 11, 2016, 11:55:57 am
Huge loan to be paid off through a charge on GWR parking fees & station access charges.

It will put traffic *on* local roads just to get there!

Until & *if* GWR get to running 2tph to Oxford, it will still be that those that drive eround to Warwick Parkway will still do so for London....it'll be a lot *less* successful than the County thinks it will


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 11, 2016, 04:19:41 pm
Though should reduce traffic in Worcester city centre.

I'd love to know what percentage of rail travellers who live in or around Worcester choose to drive the 40 miles to Warwick Parkway on a regular basis.  I know there are a few, but can anyone demonstrate that it's a significant number?


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on July 11, 2016, 04:30:38 pm
Depends on your definition of 'significant'....three figures?


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 11, 2016, 05:30:56 pm
In terms of a percentage I'd say significant would be anything over 10% of passengers, at a guess that might equate to 40+ per day.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on July 12, 2016, 10:16:47 am
My feeling is that its certainly close to that? But 400 from Worcester area to London daily? hmmm....


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 12, 2016, 12:37:54 pm
400 or so would be my guess.  That's not very many spread over the whole day from both stations.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on July 12, 2016, 01:26:27 pm
Seeing the number that return in the evening fairly often, I think that maybe rather optimistic....even including those boarding at Oxford.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 12, 2016, 03:09:24 pm
Yes, I'm talking the whole day here, some people obviously return earlier in the day, those returning from an overnight stop for example.  Looking at reservations there's a good few dozen reserved today on the trains from late morning to mid-afternoon.  Though it may be 300.  200 even.  My point was more about what percentage of people choose Warwick Parkway, and I guess in the absence of solid stats we'll just have to go for hunches.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 12, 2016, 10:18:38 pm
... I guess in the absence of solid stats we'll just have to go for hunches.

That's never stopped Btline.



Sorry: did I say that out loud ??  :o ::) :P



Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on January 31, 2017, 12:51:39 pm
A further event that matches this thread's title is announced by Worcestershire County Council (http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/news/article/1045/government_green_light_for_worcestershire_parkway):
Quote
Government Green Light for Worcestershire Parkway
Published Monday, 30th January 2017

Worcestershire County Councilís plans for a major new railway station south-east of Worcester have been given the green light by the Department for Transport.

The approval from the Department for Transport enables the Council formally to award a contract for the construction of the station. Site preparation and final design works will get underway this winter with construction work to follow.
...

Quite what this latest approval consists of is a  mystery - DfT have no such announcement (though it might be hidden inside something else). WCC have put nothing - not even a link - in their "Worcestershire Parkway Regional Interchange" page.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on January 31, 2017, 03:37:53 pm
I thought this was full approved 7 months ago.

Just did a search of Worcester Parkway, and the locals are not happy.

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/15057990.Worcester_Parkway_given_the_green_light_from_the_Government/?ref=mr&lp=8 (http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/15057990.Worcester_Parkway_given_the_green_light_from_the_Government/?ref=mr&lp=8)

I can understand why many are upset, but how anyone can argue that building 1000 car carpark in the centre of any city, in this case new Worcester Shrub Hill that currently has 60 parking spaces, would be a better option baffles me.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on January 31, 2017, 04:20:37 pm
Just did a search of Worcester Parkway, and the locals are not happy.

That's local newspaper comment sections for you!

I was amused to hear a GWR on-train announcement yesterday inviting passengers to change at Oxford for "Oxfordshire Parkway". Sounds like the nomenclature is catching on. (Though I do miss the laconic Thames Trains-era announcer at Oxford station who once announced a calling point as "Islip International Parkway".)


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 21, 2017, 11:40:23 am
Construction contract has been awarded for the new station:

http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westmidlands/news/746178-22m-contract-awarded-for-new-railway-station.html

[mods: could the topic be renamed Worcestershire Parkway, as that is going to be what it's called?]


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on February 21, 2017, 11:47:03 am
Probably more appropriate as many of the travellers who will use the new station are people living outside Worcester and excluded from rail transport by Worcester's bad traffic congestion.

The addition of a bus hub and large carpark will provide a very interesting boost for local transport.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on February 21, 2017, 11:51:49 am
Simply extract from the other two Worcester stations.

Yes, there will be a modicum of additional users, but those currently driving elsewhere will continue to do so, as journey times will be still be quicker for them.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 21, 2017, 12:02:11 pm
I'll be interested to see if ChrisB is right.  A more frequent and faster service is planned for December 2018, tying in with roughly when the station opens, which should help tip the balance further towards people not driving over towards Warwick.  A journey time to London of around two hours from a station easily reachable off of the M5 will be much more attractive than the current offering.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on February 21, 2017, 12:05:40 pm
We'll see....no one has been impressed so far.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: brompton rail on February 22, 2017, 06:45:28 pm
Probably more appropriate as many of the travellers who will use the new station are people living outside Worcester and excluded from rail transport by Worcester's bad traffic congestion.

The addition of a bus hub and large carpark will provide a very interesting boost for local transport.

The only bus service passing is currently the X50/551/2 Worcester to Pershore (half hourly) or Evesham (hourly). Norton is served by a very infrequent Worcester to Defford & Pershore 382 bus. Any extension of a City Service out to the station -say the buses serving Worcestershire Royal Infirmary - would involve several extra miles each journey and therefore extra vehicles, and, I suggest a large subsidy!

I am not clear which platforms are to be built first - Cotswold or Bristol - and which trains will serve the latter.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 22, 2017, 07:00:36 pm
I am not clear which platforms are to be built first - Cotswold or Bristol - and which trains will serve the latter.

The Cotswold Line platform was due to be built first, though given the delays perhaps they'll now both be done together?  And the Nottingham-Cardiff XC service would be the logical one to stop there, though depending on passenger numbers they might struggle capacity wise?  Perhaps in time, one of the two longer-distance XC services might call, even if on an occasional basis only?  That might be one for the next XC franchise along with a much needed boost in capacity?


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on February 22, 2017, 08:37:55 pm
Nottingham-Cardiffs in the current frsnchise. Still not sure that they'll all call though


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 22, 2017, 08:48:07 pm
So "Bristol platforms" will be a misnomer.  :(


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on February 22, 2017, 08:57:42 pm
There won't be any 'Bristol' platforms


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on February 23, 2017, 07:08:13 am
I think the plan was a single platform for the single track Cotswold line, and two platforms for the Birmingham-Bristol line.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on February 23, 2017, 07:15:07 am
I think the plan was a single platform for the single track Cotswold line, and two platforms for the Birmingham-Bristol line.

Indeed, but I think there's an objection been raised here to calling in the "Bristol" platform as there's likely to be little calling there that actually goes to Bristol!

North of Gloucester you have a selection of stations which are somewhat diverse ...
* Cheltenham Spa
* Ashchurch
* Worcestershire Parkway
* Bromsgrove
* Barnt Green
* Longbridge
and services and calling patterns to suit them all, and to suit through traffic, will be interesting to say the least!


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 23, 2017, 08:41:52 am
Despite having used a  :( up there, I don't think there's anything I personally would want to use Worcestershire Parkway for that wouldn't either be much better from Foregate St or much the same from Ashchurch. But that's just me personally.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on February 23, 2017, 09:24:38 am
Despite having used a  :( up there, I don't think there's anything I personally would want to use Worcestershire Parkway for that wouldn't either be much better from Foregate St or much the same from Ashchurch. But that's just me personally.

I would suspect it might be far more of a source of traffic than a destination - in other words far more round trips sold from the new station to other places to people within a catchment area of the station than incoming trips.   Same thing for many stations - the local station of my childhood was Petts Wood, and there were many many tickets sold from there, but people who lived elsewhere and came to Petts Wood weren't very large in numbers.

I'm guessing you don't live near to the intersection of the northern Cotswold line and the Bristol - Birmingham line, Bmblbzzz?


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on February 23, 2017, 09:33:55 am
I don't think many do yet.....there's a large housing proposal, but nothing more yet


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 23, 2017, 02:13:26 pm
I live near the intersection of the Bristol-Birmingham line and the Severn Beach line! I use Ashchurch several times a year, sometimes my destination is Tewkesbury but sometimes it's the beginning of another (non-rail) journey which I've also begun from Shrub Hill and Droitwich (and Cheltenham). Worcestershire Parkway would make a nice variation, but Ashchurch works very well. But it would still be a step in a journey, rather than a destination in itself.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 25, 2017, 02:51:07 am
mods: could the topic be renamed Worcestershire Parkway, as that is going to be what it's called?

I've now done that - if only to show that at least one of us was listening.  ::) ;) ;D



Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on February 25, 2017, 02:05:02 pm
Wonder how long Worcestershire will last. Like the Lizze line


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on February 25, 2017, 06:46:21 pm
Wonder how long Worcestershire will last. Like the Lizze line

Or Crossrail as I will stubbornly insist on calling it.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on March 20, 2017, 09:45:35 am
Rather complicated development, but it appears that rail users in Pershore,

http://www.eveshamjournal.co.uk/news/15166809.Pershore__39_s_train_services_are_under_threat__says_rail_users__39__group/ (http://www.eveshamjournal.co.uk/news/15166809.Pershore__39_s_train_services_are_under_threat__says_rail_users__39__group/)

area concerned that improve rail services to Worcester with the advent of the Worcestershire Parkway station will severely affect the viability of their local station.

The failure to upgrade the track from single to double limits the number of stops that trans can make, and the lack of local parking ... suggests that Pershore Rail station may be severely effected.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on March 20, 2017, 10:00:57 am
One of my bugbears... as a fully paid member of the pedants society.

Affect and effect are different in meaning, though frequently confused. Affect is chiefly used as a verb and its main meaning is 'to influence or make a difference to', ... Effect, on the other hand, is used both as a noun and a verb, although is more commonly used as a noun.

Which one did you intend to use Simon ?


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on March 20, 2017, 11:01:24 am
Rather complicated development, but it appears that rail users in Pershore are concerned that improve rail services to Worcester with the advent of the Worcestershire Parkway station will severely effect the viability of their local station.

Well, yes...

The Worcestershire contingent wants sub-2 hour trains from Worcester to London. It also wants a new stop to be inserted into existing schedules (i.e. Worcestershire Parkway). And it wants service levels to be maintained or improved at Honeybourne and Pershore.

Those three don't go together. The way to get 2-hr Worcester-London timings on the Cotswold Line is by missing stops, yet one is being added. And a cursory look at station usage figures shows that if any stops are to be dropped, the first two to go will be Honeybourne and Pershore.

In the very long term, I suspect the answer for the Worcestershire stations is a Birmingham/Stratford/Worcester circular via a reopened Long Marston line and redoubled Evesham-Norton. But that's a long time in the future. For now, Worcestershire probably needs to realise it can't have it all.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on March 20, 2017, 11:38:56 am
And Pershore is hardly in the middle of town, with few or no buses to use, pax need to get in their cars to get there - and if Parkway gets hourly services & Pershore doesn't, they are likely to carry onto Parkway. Especially if Pershore car park is full.

Hard on Pershore, but political pressure is probably taking the stops there out of GWRs hands,.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: brompton rail on March 20, 2017, 01:31:21 pm
But rather counter intuitive to drive from, say Comberton to Norton to travel back on train to Evesham, Oxford or Paddington. May as well drive to Evesham.

I suspect that the trains are used by people who walk to station, or dropped off, for journeys to Worcester Foregate Street as traffic and parking in Worcester is dire.  Many, too, will be school pupils and College students. There is quite a lot of housing on the station side of Pershore, not too far from the station. I believe there is an hourly bus too (Worcester - Pershore High Street - Lower Moor) passing the station, half hourly between Pershore Three Tuns and Worcester (not passing station).


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on March 20, 2017, 01:34:57 pm
Indeed, Parkway or Evesham - either way, it will reduce usage at Pershore, which is counter-productive. But the operator won't see it that way & may cut further services if political pressure for faster services avails.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 20, 2017, 01:41:52 pm
Indeed, Parkway or Evesham - either way, it will reduce usage at Pershore, which is counter-productive. But the operator won't see it that way & may cut further services if political pressure for faster services avails.

There are similar concerns at Ashchurch in terms of abstraction of passengers, and whether trains will want to stop everywhere.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on March 20, 2017, 01:46:50 pm
Worcestershire CC may have something to answer for in coming years....


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on March 21, 2017, 11:11:07 am
Out of curiosity, I thought that the Cotswold line was due to be 're'-doubled a few years ago, so why is the line through Pershore .. Worcester still single track?

Being a regular M5 traveller, I have noticed for 15+ years stretches of road works in the Worcester area, and if anything could encourage more train and public transport use, it is permanently clogged motorways.



Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on March 21, 2017, 11:14:01 am
Not the ends, just a few miles in the middle.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on May 16, 2018, 11:15:35 pm
Passed through the site today.  Work is very much under way.  Car Park clearly visible and footbridge over the XC lines under construction.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on October 27, 2018, 05:32:44 pm
From the Bromsgrove Standard: (https://bromsgrovestandard.co.uk/news/revealed-a-sneak-preview-of-the-new-worcestershire-parkway-station/)

Quote from: Bromsgrove Standard
A sneak preview of the new Worcestershire Parkway Rail Station has been released by the county council.

Work on the station is progressing well with external steelworks and glazing nearly finished.

The footage gives the very first look inside the building, which is still under construction, and also aerial views which show the sheer scale of the project.

Coun Ken Pollock, Worcestershire County Councilís Cabinet member for Economy and Infrastructure, said: ďIím very pleased and excited about the progress being made on Worcestershire Parkway Rail Station.

ďWith the construction of the station building nearing completion, you can really get a sense of the enormity of this infrastructure project that is set to transform rail travel to and from the county.Ē

Later this month, work starts to install the three platforms, each being built in sections onsite but away from the track and then fitted into place.

It will take nearly 70 sections to build each of the 265 metre long platforms.

Following installation of the platforms, work will then concentrate early in the new year on paving the car park and the landscaping and planting around the site whilst the internal elements of the station building continue to take shape.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: brompton rail on October 27, 2018, 05:40:44 pm
However Ďniceí Worcestershire Parkway station is the train service is what will make it a success or otherwise. A 2 car class 170 to Birmingham every hour isnít going to be much of an attraction..


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on November 05, 2018, 12:05:52 pm
Actually, if it's non-stop or one-stop (likely University), it'll attract passengers....


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 05, 2018, 12:32:02 pm
Actually, if it's non-stop or one-stop (likely University), it'll attract passengers....

Interesting thought ... that with a University stop throughout the day, you're looking at a journey time of about 25 minutes which is probably very attractive for people who want to live in the Worcestershire countryside and work or study at the University.  Market to develop there!   

Looking at Ashchurch prices - £42.00 for an anytime return to University ... £26.10 after 09:30.  £87.90 for a 7 day season looks like much better value.   Ashchurch to University as a commute isn't one I had previously thought of - perhaps because of the poor through services - see attachment


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 05, 2018, 12:47:22 pm
Out of interest, can anyone think of another instance of a station being named after a county rather than a city or town? Why isn't it Worcester Parkway?


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 05, 2018, 12:56:27 pm
Out of interest, can anyone think of another instance of a station being named after a county rather than a city or town? Why isn't it Worcester Parkway?

Kent House?

Long explanation I saw somewhere that suggests the name indicates it's a station for the wider county and not just for Worcester, hence the name.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Oxonhutch on November 05, 2018, 01:00:16 pm
Why isn't it Worcester Parkway?

Bit like the sauce! For generations, we've enjoyed Worcester Sauce in our family - and now I see the suffix '-shire' has been added to every bottle.  :)


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 05, 2018, 02:00:36 pm
Why isn't it Worcester Parkway?

Bit like the sauce! For generations, we've enjoyed Worcester Sauce in our family - and now I see the suffix '-shire' has been added to every bottle.  :)

Since Lea & Perrins added the -shire 150 years ago, presumably to appear classier, you've obviously been using one bottle very, very, slowly, or else a supermarket own brand sauce - no point their trying to look classy.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on November 05, 2018, 03:44:18 pm
Out of interest, can anyone think of another instance of a station being named after a county rather than a city or town? Why isn't it Worcester Parkway?

Not a county, of course, but there's East Midlands Parkway.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: patch38 on November 05, 2018, 03:47:36 pm
Since Lea & Perrins added the -shire 150 years ago, presumably to appear classier, you've obviously been using one bottle very, very, slowly, or else a supermarket own brand sauce - no point their trying to look classy.

Brings to mind one of my favourite Tim Vine gags:

"I entered a competition and won a year's supply of Marmite. One jar."


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on November 05, 2018, 03:51:38 pm
Looking at Ashchurch prices - £42.00 for an anytime return to University ... £26.10 after 09:30.  £87.90 for a 7 day season looks like much better value.   Ashchurch to University as a commute isn't one I had previously thought of - perhaps because of the poor through services - see attachment

Of course, there's the pricing elephant in the room...

Worcester Stations to Birmingham Stations is £11.30 SDR, £9.60 CDR.

Ashchurch to Birmingham Stations is £42.00 SOR, £26.10 SVR. (No day returns available.)

You've probably already guessed that the former are set by West Midlands Railway and the latter by Cross"we've never found a flow we don't want to gouge"Country. Given that the services at Worcestershire Parkway will be operated by CrossCountry, I would assume they'll set the prices too.

But if a day out from Parkway is three or four times the cost of one from Shrub Hill or Foregate, I wonder how many people will choose it. Yes, there are always advance fares, and maybe - he says doubtfully - it'll find a niche for Worcestershire folk going on holiday to Devon or something. Still, WMR's Worcester-Birmingham fares are famously good value, and XC's fares are famously bad value, and putting the two up against each other may not end happily.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 05, 2018, 03:56:02 pm
Out of interest, can anyone think of another instance of a station being named after a county rather than a city or town? Why isn't it Worcester Parkway?

You used to have the LCC - London County Council.  So perhaps you could consider London Fenchurch Street, London Cannon Street, London Blackfriars and a few more I have overlooked to be considered as bearing county names.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 05, 2018, 04:10:52 pm
Out of interest, can anyone think of another instance of a station being named after a county rather than a city or town? Why isn't it Worcester Parkway?

You used to have the LCC - London County Council.  So perhaps you could consider London Fenchurch Street, London Cannon Street, London Blackfriars and a few more I have overlooked to be considered as bearing county names.
If you look at it that way, Bristol is (in)famously city and county, so Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway could be thought of as county names.

For a different answer to Red Squiggel's question, this station is quite some way from Worcester.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 05, 2018, 04:39:18 pm
Out of interest, can anyone think of another instance of a station being named after a county rather than a city or town? Why isn't it Worcester Parkway?

Northumberland Parlk - now that is a long way away, even for a lover of old counties.

Edit:to remove a duplicate I didn't spot at the time.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: JontyMort on November 10, 2018, 12:56:55 pm
Out of interest, can anyone think of another instance of a station being named after a county rather than a city or town? Why isn't it Worcester Parkway?

I have always assumed that "Worcester Parkway" would be too like Worcester Park. That said, the County is keen to attract traffic from west of the Severn. Presumably they are also keen to divert traffic away from the county's main station (arguably Warwick Parkway...).


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Dispatch Box on November 20, 2018, 07:48:20 pm
When is this station going to be built, and opened. Now heres to a Gloucester Parkway next, should be by the Barnwood Bypass.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 20, 2018, 08:08:04 pm
It is being built currently and will open next year.


Title: Re: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on November 20, 2018, 10:09:34 pm
When is this station going to be built, and opened. Now heres to a Gloucester Parkway next, should be by the Barnwood Bypass.

They were going to build one at Elmbridge Court in 2006 however it wasnít the best idea. The Gloucester MP said itís unlikely  one would be built in the next ten years, however if it was would be built near to Waterwells Business Park.



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